Hey , welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha . We are so pumped that you're tuning into this podcast . It has been designed for people just like you . We wanna do life with you , share our wins , our defeats , our ups and our downs , in hopes that you'll grow closer to God and to the people that you love in your life . Sit back and enjoy today's podcast , but before I get there , I wanted to take a moment just to invite our audience out to a live conference . And so every year in October , the second week in October , we have a special conference that we call a live conference , and this is what we say that these three days could change the next 30 years of your life . Our goal is to try to give people at least four times the amount that they invested in a ticket . We're gonna have seven main sessions this year , six master classes , three after parties , but one encounter with God .
Speaker 1And I believe that one encounter with God is what it's all about .
Speaker 3It's so good , ac 23 . You know there are certain things that we do every year , like as believers , like I fast , I do like major fast a couple of times a year . You know , sometimes there's certain books of the Bible I'll study . You know there's a word of the year . But then something else that we do every year and that is a conference . Ac 23 is that conference . It's that encounter , like you're saying , where you just like Wednesday , thursday , friday , all day , every day , you are like enveloped in the presence of God , just daring to go beyond your own personal boundaries . It is amazing .
Speaker 1And we're gonna be doing a special session on marriage there . It's gonna be Ken and Tabitha . I think we're calling it unfiltered .
Speaker 3And so you wanna come . Really , what is that ?
Speaker 1like you gotta come , we're already unfiltered If you're interested with getting more information about our conference , check out the website mylifeturchorg , and you can also check it out in the show notes . I think there's a link to that as well . You gotta get your tickets now because it is gonna be a sold out event . Hello everybody , welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha . We are so pumped to have you here and I got a special guest today . Pastor Craig Altman is here from Grace Family Church in Tampa . Can you just say hello to everybody , Pastor Craig ?
Speaker 2Hello how are you guys doing today ? Home of Champabay , we're Champabay .
Speaker 1Is that what it is ?
Speaker 2World champion football and hockey , and close to baseball .
Speaker 1Are you a Tampa Bay fan , big born ?
Speaker 2and raised there Okay .
Speaker 1And I also hear you're a Gator fan as well , big . Gator fan . Now , why are you a Gator fan ?
Speaker 2Well , my daughter went there . She found her son-in-law there and she was an all-American pole-volder at University of Florida . Oh yeah , yeah , man , it was exciting . Was she good in college , man ? Yeah , she was really good . Yeah , I mean , fourth in the nation , her senior year .
Speaker 1That is amazing . It was really good . You gotta have a lot of guts to be a pole-volder . I mean , you're basically putting your pole in something and going through your body it is .
Speaker 2it's one of those things . She did gymnastics early in her life , kind of built that body type and just took off from there . Oh good .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's great For those of you all who are newer to our show . We just love sharing real life , practical stuff for your marriage , for your relationship , but not just that . We just feel like there's a lot of biblical principles that we can share , and when people grow in love with God , it kind of affects their relationship as well . Now I know that you've been married for 42 years . Wow , you haven't , I know right .
Speaker 2That is shocking to me say 43 years man . I just say , this sounds yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , and you have a great church , I mean one of the largest churches in Tampa with eight locations , including online . Can you just tell us a little bit about your story , how you got started , where you guys are in ministry ?
Speaker 2Well , it's funny . My story , you know , is really I wasn't raised in a Christian home and my dad was married four times . I mean no Christian background , no Christian heritage whatsoever . I see this pretty girl , 19 years old . I'm like , hey , let's go out and party . And she goes . I don't party , I'm a born again Christian . I didn't know what that was , I was trying to , and so , you know , I kind of started going to church with her because she wouldn't go out with me . So my dates were at church , so I'd come in with a hangover at church on a Sunday morning .
Speaker 1I think that's good wisdom for single people today , especially single ladies . Absolutely . A guy will follow you and do whatever he has to do to get what he really wants and because you want her now you guys saved . She was uncompromising trust me , she was uncompromising .
Speaker 2I mean Sunday morning , Sunday nights , Wednesday night I was going to church more than most Christians Right .
Speaker 1Now , how long did it take for you to kind of be like you know what this whole Jesus thing is ? It's kind of real .
Speaker 2After about three months she said man , you need to make a commitment . This relationship didn't go any further . See , my play was to seduce her away from Christianity , but that wasn't happening . So I'm in this . I'm literally I'm in a bar called the Tapper Pub . I'm on my ninth beer , no joke , and I had heard all this stuff about the truth and for the first time I heard the voice of God , not audibly , but that inner conviction . The whole room disappeared and a lot of people joke with me about it . I say , well , after nine beers you hear a lot of voices , but it was God's voice and he convicted me and I realized I need to give my life to Christ and that's where it started . So it started in the bar .
Speaker 2In the bar . I got saved in the bar , Come on .
Speaker 1It's amazing where God can speak to us .
Speaker 2Anywhere right .
Speaker 1And how he can get to us . That's right . And so how was your conversion thing ? So you said you were trying to seduce her away .
Speaker 2Was there another religion you were a part of ? No , no , you were just more like Ethan , that's it .
Speaker 1Like did you believe in God at all ? I believe , but you know only on my terms , only on your terms .
Speaker 2There's a lot of people like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think I keep myself . Craig Rochelle coined this and I kind of borrowed the quote that I was a Christian atheist for 10 years .
Speaker 2I believed in .
Speaker 1God , but I lived like he didn't exist . Exactly and basically , I would make up my own religion . I wouldn't listen to certain kind of music on Sundays and I wouldn't go party too hard on Sundays . I wouldn't drink too much on Sundays , but Monday through Saturday .
Speaker 2God would forgive me . That was free . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1And so sometimes I would go to the hospital and they had a chapel in the hospital . I would go there and I would kneel down and pray and say , hey , I went to church today . I literally made up my own religion A lot of people do that .
Speaker 2A lot of people do that . I've believed in him long as he didn't interrupt my life .
Speaker 1Right , that's crazy , isn't it ? Yeah , well , you know what I love about you . I love your heart for the lost and I can sense it when you talk . We've had the opportunity to be at conferences together and this is the first time we've been able to do ministry together and it's been amazing . But what I love is that when you talk , I can tell that you love those who don't know Jesus yet .
Speaker 2Where does that come from , and can you just Well , you know it comes from me , not having been raised in a Christian home and not even knowing anything about the truth or God's word . And I never forgot where I came from . I came from not knowing anything about God , jesus , christianity . So from day one , even when I was a youth pastor for 12 years before , I was a lead pastor and it was always about how do we reach these teenagers , and back then we did all kind of crazy stuff to reach them and it's never left me and I can say that to this day . I mean the filter's gotta be if we're not reaching the lost . You know I'm not a fisher of the aquarium . You know you can be a fisher of the aquarium or the fishers of the open seas and man . God calls us to reach people and it's just been a part of me because of my background .
Speaker 1If there's somebody who's listening that are kind of questioning their faith , where they are with this whole Christianity thing or this whole God thing , what would be your advice to them ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I tell you , first of all , I had a preconceived idea who God was . Drop all that , you know , the idea of well , god doesn't want me to have any fun . Look , take it a step at a time . And I remember when I first started listening to the truth it was . I knew it was true . I just had to make a decision , you know , am I gonna follow after this ? And and there's a best decision ever made because I , god , gave me purpose , he gave me fulfillment .
Speaker 2The things I thought I loved . I really didn't love . I mean again , I was a my reputation in Tampa . I was a hellraiser in Tampa . So when I first started pastoring , I had people come and go . I just want to see if it's true . They really came and to say , okay , this guy's a pastor now and so there's a real soul to Paul conversion . That's why there's hope for anybody . You know , I remember the first person ever witnessed to me . I was 16 years old . I spit in her face , spit and tore up their material . I don't want to hear any that crap . Oh , wow . So there's hope for everybody . You're here today and you're like what are these guys doing ? Listen , man , god has never given up on you . Yeah , he always . He still believes in you . He believed enough to down across when you could care less about who he was . Yeah , that's love .
Speaker 1Yeah right . Well , I mean , you know the , the analogy we saw , and he was a one who persecuted Christians and even had to them , yeah , committed to prison and even murdered , and I didn't do any of that , but I definitely persecuted hey , but spitting in people's face , that's that's that's like one more step I'm taking you out of here .
But and so what else was the things that caused you to come , even though you were drunk , or you were drinking and non beers ? But what was it that , you think , made you ? Was it just the voice of God and the example of your ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that example she said , but deep down , if people are honest with themselves , I was empty man . I was empty , I was broken . I didn't know what the word broken men but I was searching for something . I you know , like that old song , searching for love in all the wrong places . I was out partying and had my friends and having a good time , but I'd go home at two in the morning . Go . There's got to be more to life than this , you know , it's just there .
Speaker 1Was that real gnawing Emptiness in my life that God filled we live in a social media age when everybody likes to kind of make themselves look a certain way on the outside but not really deal with what's on the inside . And my example is similar to yours . There was like a hole in my soul that only Jesus could feel and I would go out like I was P Diddy before P Diddy . I could do a house party . I could . I mean I'm telling you I'd have a party . I would I'm collect money at the front and I would sell these balloons like my friends would steal this . I don't know if it was nitrogen , it was some kind of gas that you could steal from the hospital and if you inhale it people get really high and I could sell For five dollars per balloon .
Speaker 1Now I never did the stuff myself , but I'm here making money . I mean I'm doing all kinds of things and I would look like the life of the party . I'm talking about VIP section at the club . I could take 20 people in with me .
Speaker 1I was like had keys to the nightclub , but there was still a hole in my soul that only Jesus could feel and I remember I will go home sometimes and just be like there has to be more than this , and I know that there are some people and they have a lot of success and they have a lot of money and notoriety that feels like I'm happy . I will say , well , you don't really know what happiness is until you get the one that can really give you joy , and so I don't know for me and I talked to also very rich people , very famous people , I'm people who reach out to us because of this podcast , and I will say this is the common denominator . There are a few outliers , but the common denominator is that there is a place in humanity that only Jesus can feel you find that to be true , absolutely .
Speaker 2You know , solomon said that he was a richest man , the most successful man . He had everything , but said he had nothing . He I'm chasing the wind , right , he had everything . Come on and chasing the wind , he said there's . At the end of his life . He said what I learned is this you know , fear God and follow him , because he was empty . Yeah , and he had everything , right , everything . He was like the richest man , yeah , had .
Speaker 1I mean he had a Accomplishments , he had a city with his chariots yeah , that's like having a host zip code to just park your rods in . I mean it's amazing who he was , but he still was like vanity , vanity , all vanity , yeah , exactly chasing it , man , and yeah , and you get to the end .
Speaker 2You realize is this it Talk to so many guys like you . Right , they climb the corporate ladder , they get that corner office and they still go . It's got to be more and the more is . God has a God-given purpose and plan for your life to use your gifts , use your talents for him , yeah , and not just to build your own kingdom .
Speaker 1Yeah , what is the main thing that you felt like over the years now ? How long have you been in ministry ?
Speaker 230 years this church , another 1242 years for two years total ministry . Man , I love it .
Speaker 1Yeah , what do you feel like is the main hindrances ? If you had to give me one , two or three to people accepting Jesus ? That you've seen over 42 years and that's a great one , and this one is a little spiritual .
Speaker 2But they need to get this , because when I gave my life to Christ , my eyes were opened and I went . All my friends are gonna want this . I went out to the clubs , went back to the all and said , hey guys , this is good news . And they looked at me like you're crazy . Well , I realize the Bible says Satan is blinded the minds of unbelievers and someone was praying for me to open my Blind eyes , and so part of it is a spiritual blindness . That I know it seems weird to them , but it's true . And the other part is you know Same thing .
Speaker 2We all want to do our own thing , right , we think that my way is the best way and I'm gonna be fulfilled that way , and that comes to a quick end . I just think that we we misunderstand who God is and how this is about a relationship with him to make you , help you get to your greatest potential as a human being . I mean , he's for you , he's not against you , that's so . That's amazing thing people are running from . God is like man . I'm not . I'm not mad at you , I'm madly in love with you .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's almost this tone right now in social media world , where it's like you Christians this and you Bible bumpers this , and it's like you have no idea who God really is , because if you really understood who God is , you would want everything that we're offering . It's not like we're offering you to be judgmental and narrow minded and not have fun . We're actually offering you something that's better than anything you could ever come up with , and you know scripture says that the God of this world has blinded the mind .
Speaker 2Oh , you said that . You say it again blind the mind of unbelievers , let's the light of the gospel shine through .
Speaker 1But there was another scripture I was thinking . It was how the things of God are foolishness to a natural minded man . The carnal minded man . The carnal minded man cannot understand the things of God . So with us , you know , I've been in ministry 20 years and you 42 years . What we've known through decades of ministry is that it's not that people are bad , it's just that they're blind . And what the gospel does is it removes the spiritual blind fold so that you can see clearly . And so for me I don't know one of my answers to why don't people I'm except Jesus would be pride , because you first have to humble yourself to realize that I've been wrong . You know I've been wrong . I did not see clearly , I could not see God . I had a spiritual . The sin Nature that I've been born in was actually blinding me to who God really is . And repentance is the fruit of like humility .
Speaker 2And you nailed it with a pride . A quick , funny story I was snorkeling with my family off one of the islands in the Bahamas and I decided to go snorkel with them , but I didn't have any of the flippers . I said I'll get out of my own . I got halfway out there and realized I'm ready to drown . So I turn around and come back to currents going against me . Now I'm really getting ready to drown and here I'm a grown man and I'm realizing I'm going to have to scream out please , someone save me .
Speaker 2Pride , for the first two minutes , kept me from doing that , literally . And I finally got to a point I said please , someone save me . I was starting to go down , I was trying and this lady scuba diving popped up right next to me and says just lay on your back and I'm going to take you to shore . And she started getting me close to shore . I realized where I was at and go . Okay , you can let go of me now . I don't want you dragging me all the way in and seeing this . Everybody's seeing me , but I . But you know that's the way . You have to admit that you're drowning and that's hard for people to come to pride , you know pride keeps us from calling out like that .
Speaker 1So you almost drowned because of pride . And there are people who are watching . That's almost drowning in their marriage because of pride in their business because of pride and in their soul because of pride , and so it's something about pride . When you get proffered , the scripture says you're going to be brought love , but if you can get humble , then God's going to lift you up , and I just feel like you know , we just need a humility movement again , that's a good one .
Speaker 2Yes , sir , yes , sir , listen if we don't have one , he'll bring one . I know , I mean , he humbles me , I've been humble many times . That's right . That's right . And you know , humility is a great thing , Right , it's just acknowledging hey , you know what ? I don't know everything and he does . And I tell you , I like falling on one who knows everything . Nothing surprises God . Yeah , I like his team . Yeah , I love it .
Yeah , so , craig , you've been married for 42 years . Man , can you tell me a little bit about that , like , how ? Like ? I've been married for 23 years almost forgot , but I'm not going to forget . Praise God , 24 years and coming up soon How'd you make it , man ?
Speaker 2Honestly , I love this part because marriage is work .
Speaker 2Yeah it is work . I don't care if you're a pastor . They think our marriages we float on clouds or something . Marriage is work for anybody . You know why ? Because two imperfect , broken people joining together to be one . Yeah , it sounds great , right , but it's work . It's work Every day . I love my wife , but it's work every day . Every day is really a series of compromises . Yeah , I don't get my way . It's a melting together of one another .
Speaker 2And so what's the longevity of marriage ? Number one is you've got to have a lot of grace . I mean , my wife married me and I'm an Italian slob . I'm just not good , I'm not a handyman , I can't do anything around the house . Yeah , hard , people fall in love . Oh , all that you know and that may seem , but the thing about marriage that makes it work is we all need grace , we all need to show mercy . Definitely , communication is huge . All the time Communicating , you know , talking about things and feelings , and men got to tune in a little better . I learned to be a better listener . At first , I wasn't I'm like suck it up or I'd say that's the devil . She was not the devil , it's you . And so I learned to listen . I learned , and she's learned , a lot about who I am and you you know . But 42 years it's work .
Speaker 1Can we kind of buckle down on the grace piece ? A little bit Like when you say grace , there's a lot of grace . Is anything come to mind , like what's an example of grace or what is a way that you see a lot of people not giving each other grace ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think for Debbie and I , who are all hardwired a certain way and there's certain things about my wife that will always annoy me , those aren't changing . You could try to change that . And I've learned to go . You know what I'm gonna have grace because that's just how . That's how she's wired . It's not an excuse , but it's how she's wired . Same with me . She's learned to go . That's just Craig . I can't expect him to be the handyman . She always says she should have married two people , me and one other guy . But we don't believe in that , you know . But but grace , in many areas she's having a bad day . I mean , you know , when are we gonna show grace and mercy one another ? When someone had a good , bad day ? You know we we just kind of have that in all of our relationships , but in our marriage relationship it's helped us . You know , if you want mercy , show some mercy .
Speaker 1So what I hear is more like don't sweat the small stuff , yeah , except each other's idiosyncrasies , because we all have yeah , so you have certain stuff , that's just the way you do things . She has certain stuff we all do and we can love each other in spite of the idiosyncrasies . We got to try not to make our spouse be us . I think that's a huge one , because I really want to have it there to be me . I want her to be timely like me . I want her .
Speaker 2I was a good one timely .
Speaker 1Yeah , my wife never on time man , it will cause an argument all the time .
Speaker 2Yeah , we two cars a church ? Oh , we always take two cars , still today .
Speaker 1Just you know , yeah , that's just yeah , ain't no need to break out an argument . Yeah , yeah , you just I see you when you get there Because we go , even the way she drives . Yeah , it can get on my last nerve and and I think that people are getting a divorce offer what they call irreconcilable Differences and it's basically you just don't know how to live with another person . It's not you , yeah , you don't know great , you think the next person snuck and have any issues .
Speaker 1Oh man , but you take you into the next relationship , yeah you take and you know it's funny .
Speaker 2You say that I don't do a lot of marriage counseling because I'm not a good marriage counselor . Yeah , I do talk to people to say I regret not trying to work through the first one . Yeah , cuz what I realized I thought was differences that we couldn't reconcile . Right same thing in the second one . Yeah , yeah , same stuff , yeah so work on your first one .
Speaker 2Yeah you know , I mean there are boundaries , right , there are things you extend grace , but we know there are certain reasons a person can't get out of relationship , but most of them it's not about that . You know I fell out of love or I just don't get along with this person . Well , you did it one time . What happened ? Yeah ?
Speaker 1you know Well , I think a lot of people get married and it's not real true love or the highest form of love . It's not a gap , a yeah . They're getting married from an emotional kind of love and so those emotions or that infatuation phase , it leaves that marriage . After a few weeks , that butterfly feeling goes away .
Speaker 2And it's three years . They say actually that would . It is about three years . Some it's maybe a few weeks .
Speaker 1Well , usually they date each other for three years . It's about a time to get married .
Speaker 2And that's another important part . Uh-huh stop , keep dating your wife . Yeah you know , guys , we , I don't need as much of that going out and doing something , but she likes to go out or go for a weekend somewhere and that's important . Man , you keep dating that person , you know so for 42 years .
Speaker 1You guys have continued to date . Yeah , yeah , we .
Speaker 2It's , it's . It's a good time . We have a lot of couch time too . You know you come home , you , they want to talk . You know , at first I didn't want to talk , but I realized that's part of you know talking things out , because if you don't talk on a regular basis You're gonna have a volcanic explosion with them , because then you're gonna get it all out , the good , the bad and the ugly .
Speaker 1That's not pretty either , would you say . Like communication , you feel , is like one of the biggest tools to learn and no doubt to a great marriage .
Speaker 2No , I mean , and we're all learning , right . I mean , it's so hard and you know , we always say , when we're talking about an issue , don't attack the person , attack the problem right . And we've learned to do that right . You know not way . This is how this is making me feel right . See , I've learned that . He's taught me that this is how that's making Me feel and it kind of lowers the defenses . Right , but when you do communicate even truth , we're all defensive right .
Speaker 2But I'll sit on , think about it , come back later and , with the Holy Spirit there with you , he softens my heart many times where I'm like she's not even right . But God will soften my heart because , listen , marriage is always a series of compromises and negotiations . It really is .
Speaker 1Compromises and negotiations .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , if you're only getting your way , it's not really a marriage , right , I mean ?
Speaker 1you're a tyrant . So 42 years man , I'm sure you guys have been through all kinds of different seasons . You know , and I honestly you know , whenever I see someone who's been married that long I think my parents are about 48 years now . I just got tons of questions . It's almost like you know how did you get there ? Because I want to make sure you know , because you went through all kinds of different seasons .
Speaker 1Like I'm in a season now because I'm 45 and my wife is 47 . We're changing like I can see our bodies changing . I can see wrinkles or I can see hair going gray and stuff like that , and it almost feels like there's a temptation that's a little bit stronger to look for someone who looks like my wife used to look , and I don't know if that's a man Temptation or if it's a people temptation . How have you gotten through all of those seasons ? What would be your if you had to give advice to somebody and saying , okay , they're on year five or year ten or your 20 ? What has been the seasons that you've had to navigate to get to 43 years ?
Speaker 2Wow , that's a great question
. I think our bodies do change , right , we change physically . I'm not the person I should be , either right and so . I mean yeah , part of it is is finding out those things this means sound , sound almost too practical that you enjoy doing together . Right , I mean , that for me was part of it . My wife is still pretty Athletic , will try to do some things , will hike , will walk .
Speaker 1We're starting to play pickleball now , are you ? Oh man , it's the ball , it's a , it's the deal right now .
Speaker 2But trying to find those common things that you can continue to do life with and realizing , I mean , that's , that's not realistic , what you're gonna go , you know . Go find someone else , younger and prettier . It may appeal to someone , but they say the grass is greener but the water bills are higher too . You know what I'm saying . I mean just , it doesn't work . That's a lie from the enemy , I hate to say . But it is right , and not that we haven't had those temptations . All of us have felt , man , I wish my wife looked like that , right . Well , I don't know what's going on behind the scenes . She may look pretty and be something else .
Speaker 1You know , nowadays they just take it all off .
Speaker 2Yeah , god , take your hair off . Take it off , I mean .
Speaker 1But yeah , I'll be like , oh my god , you can just take all of it off that is that you still ?
Speaker 2yeah , but understanding the season is hard . You know , my wife went through that menopause season .
Speaker 1Yeah , mine isn't that right now .
Speaker 2Wow man , yeah , she did okay .
Speaker 1Wow , wow .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's that's . All I could say is , wow . It was about a 18 month , two year . And that's where God said give her grace , there's a lot of hormone stuff going on . I didn't understand it . It was a trifecta of my daughter getting married . My son was traveling internationally and I said but you still got me ? And she started crying .
Speaker 1I Don't know about , I guess I wasn't .
Speaker 2I wasn't enough for her , but seriously , it was a tough time where I just had to go . You know what you're gonna have to love her the way I love you .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah and man .
Speaker 2God loved me in my Ugliest moments , my down moments , and and that's where you have to dig in and tap into Something you don't have I really it's a , it's a kind of love that God gives us through his Holy Spirit . He does and but it's hard .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know it's . It's kind of a choice .
Speaker 2You know , I heard it is .
Speaker 1TDJ say that we're not just living together , we're dying together .
Speaker 2Mm-hmm , that's good . Well , my wife and I said there's no exit ramp . Yeah , I mean , we're in this thing , we're not gonna have an exit , we don't . We didn't . We really made a decision early . We're not gonna use a word , the D word . We're gonna work through it . We may not like each other for a while . We're gonna work through this , yeah , and we're glad we did yeah . I think , we're gonna sound like it's not always hard , but there's hard seasons , no , I know it's very good to tell married people that this is hard .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's absolutely difficult .
Speaker 1Jesus never said it wouldn't be difficult . He says that I'm gonna be with you in difficult . My grace is gonna be sufficient , and I think a lot of people are sucker punched because they think it's gonna be happily ever after I got my night you shine an armor .
Speaker 1No , it's gonna be difficult and you're gonna have to work this thing and you're gonna have to have a revelation of covenant Yep in faithfulness and not quitting . And I'm throwing around the D word and not I'm comparing your spouse to somebody's Instagram post . You're comparing someone's low lights to another person's highlights . You can never win that way you know you mentioned word covenant .
Speaker 2That's probably the biggest word for me . Yeah , I made a commitment to God . Yeah , that's my number one . I made a vow to him , right about being married to her , right , and that's just . I have a an old school fear of God . I don't , you know . I God said this is how I want you to do it and this is a covenant and it's . You know . Those verses we always read when we're doing a wedding . For better or worse , richer or poor , right , we kind of run right through those . But it's during those worst times worth where I realized it's a covenant that I've made with God .
Speaker 1Well , there's a scripture that says there's better , it's better not to make a vow than to make one and not keep it . You know and we understand there's biblical outs for divorce . Sure , because I have to say that because absolutely all kinds of things . That's really not what we're talking about . We're talking about people that are falling out of love with each other , in Reconcilable differences , and really the scripture says that God hates divorce , and so what we need is to have conversations like this . We need podcasts , we need principles to figure out how to turn our marriage around . So if there was somebody who's watching and they're just struggling , they are on that edge of divorce . There's threatening there . A communication has broken down . Were there being the advice that you would give to that person . It's just really , really struggling .
Speaker 2I think you said earlier we need to humble ourselves and realize it's it's a two-party deal it's not all them or all you and go get some gifted , anointed Christian counseling . I believe in it . I've seen those go through that , had gifted counseling . Help them to give them some tools to work through what they're struggling with , whether it's a communication communication tool or intimacy tool , whatever they need to get through it . But Sometimes we're at that point you need a third party .
Speaker 2Yeah you know , to come in and and be unbiased . They can really minister to both of you in a way that will hopefully kind of give you some steps to take .
Speaker 1You know I've been saying this lately . I say and this is not about if there's , you know , abuse , abandonment , uh , adultery , this is , if you just have these unreconcilable difference , I say don't come tell me about a divorce Unless you have went through at least three married , three years of marriage counseling . I'm two years of personal counseling . You read a hundred books on marriage and listen to at least 50 podcast on marriage . Don't come tell me you want because you're not willing to do the work , because a number of times I say you want a divorce . How many books have you ready , like I don't know how to read , or have you ? How many podcasts have you listened to ? What I listened to ? One and a half , but but they're not really ready to do the work . So we posted that that little clip right there . Right , it's heavy , right , and people was like the amount somebody said well .
Speaker 1Counseling is expensive nowadays , how you expect us to get all that counseling , and it's almost like people deflect so much Nowadays that they don't take any responsibility , and I just feel like the excuses , yeah , or a crutch for the uncommitted people . Just well , I can't do that because of this and I can't do that because it is you're not ready yet .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know . Hey , counseling is expensive , right You're . I know people gone through a divorce . Listen , that's expensive . Alamone is more expensive . Oh yeah , child support is more , way more , you know , emotional wounds are more expensive . All that stuff is more expensive .
Speaker 1That's right . It's just amazing that when you put out great stuff like that , that people are just they're hearing more excuses and it's kind of like Heard you say this rationalization , they're just rationalizing . Yeah , they can't do it , but you can do all things to Christ .
Speaker 1You can . You got to scroll up your sleeves and get in there and say I'm gonna work on me . And when you work on you , that's gonna impact the marriage , even if it's just like one person cuz sometimes it's like , but I can't get the other person to come to counsel you go , that's right , you work on you , you become a better yeah , a better person . And then and allow the Holy Spirit to
come in . There was a lady who gave me a note in church and it's just just a moment ago and she said um , my husband heart stopped beating on Wednesday and I prayed for him and his pulse came back . But he won't come to church with me and I , just after that , I want to rededicate my life to the Lord . Please pray for me . And I said when she gave me the note , I felt I hadn't seen this faith , this kind of faith . You know how the Bible says . Jesus said I saw your faith . I saw this woman's faith and when she came to me in the lobby , the Lord gave me a scripture and it's found in 1st Peter , chapter 3 , and I want to read it very quickly , because there's a woman here or a man who feels like man . What can I do for my spouse ? They won't come to counseling , they don't want to come to church . They're not saved first .
Speaker 1Peter , chapter 3 , verse 1 , says wives likewise Be submissive to your own husbands . That even if some do not obey the word , they , without a word , may be one by the conduct of their wife . Powerful one translation says by the lifestyle of their wives , by how the wife and let's do it vice versa how you conduct yourself as a spouse , whether husband and wife , is Even better than the word you can say to your spouse , meaning that by your lifestyle , your faithfulness , your character , your commitment , your humility , you can actually win . God has given you an anointing to be able to win your spouse . I'm not saying it's gonna happen overnight . I've seen a woman believe for her husband for ten years and now he saved . Love Jesus with all of his heart .
Speaker 2Yep you know , it brings a conviction on their lives . They're seeing the Bible in action , they're seeing this person living this not perfect life , but a righteous life , and it really does bring conviction on that spouse . Great advice , yep .
Speaker 1So how many kids you got .
Speaker 2I got to you , got to both of them married Okay , one's 39 , my daughter's 39 . For four grandchildren . They live five doors down from me . Oh yeah , love that .
Speaker 1You live in a life .
Speaker 2I'm living it now . My son just got married . He held all two is 36 . What , yeah ? My wife was all worried . You know they just I said that if you pray as much as you worry , Shut up . I don't hear that . But he finally got married . Right during COVID married an Italian girl from Rome , Italy .
Speaker 1Oh , yeah , yeah , crazy , not just an American , no , no , yeah , yeah , yeah , that's crazy .
Speaker 2Okay , he's a travel internationally teaching English as a second language and , okay , that's where he met her .
Speaker 1Yeah . So , man , I got three kids right now they're 17 , 13 and 12 and I don't know , it's just , parenting is much harder than I ever thought that it would be . I mean just from a father who has adult kids . Now I got one this semester as if it just getting bad grades , almost like just kind of just not handling responsibility . Hey , you turn this in . No , I didn't think about it . And then the other one has some friends that are questionable , kind of like friends that you get a text message and they use some bad words and talking , all this stuff , and and so I'm just navigating these moments . But , craig , I wanted you to know that it has tired me out . I am listen . There was a time where , um , I , one of my kids , was doing something at school and so I went to school , right , and I was kind of upset with my wife about it . But I went to school , said I'm going to handle , I'm going to handle , I'm going to handle . Man , they signed me up , they said , hey , mr Clayter , we send all the emails to your wife , but you're not on the list . So you know you can get the emails . So I gave her my email address . I have received so many text messages and emails . This assignment wasn't due . This assignment wasn't due . This isn't done . They got this report Literally .
Speaker 1I need a sabbatical just from being a father . You know what I'm saying . I mean , that's the real deal , and I know that there are people out here like I love my kids and I have great kids I'm talking about . They're smart , they're intelligent , they're witty . I mean they figure out stuff . I mean they oh my God , they're talented kids . But it's tiring at the same time . Can you just help me so I don't kill these kids and try to move them to adulthood with what have you learned ? Is this like a seasonal thing with these kids ?
Speaker 2Well , yeah , first it depends what the AG are . You know , sometimes we're their parent , but then we become the coach and then we're on the sidelines . So it depends what age you are . But I'll back up a minute and say , man , if you got kids and you're in church , they need to be in church with you . They're under your household , under the age of 18 . They need to be , you know . Well , you know , I don't want to force them . Well , you force them to go to school . You take them three nights a week to cheerleading practice . My kids revolve all sports . Let them get that foundation . You know that's so critical . And then , on top of that , even with that foundation , they're gonna have attitudes , they're gonna have issues . They're gonna . And it was a constant for us . I just thought it was gonna be perfect .
Speaker 1I mean , I got them in church I'm a pastor but they are not spiritual yet you know what I'm saying .
Speaker 2Each one's different too . Each one needs to be ministered to in a different way . My daughter was a high achiever , you know I told you pole vault champion , all American and social . So we had to handle her differently than our son . My son was just different man . He was , you know , the skateboarding guy . You know the hair down to here .
Speaker 2I'm like wait , he just had to have a little time , yeah just chilling and so and I can say that you gotta love them where they're at and they gotta know that they fall . They got a place to come home to . You know , if they fall short , if they listen , you can always come back here and , no matter how hard it may say and we've really built , tried to build that refuge that they felt secure enough in they definitely they follow the Lord their whole life . But there is definitely attitudes and issues and we can never get our son to do homework when he's in high school . How are you gonna go away to school ? You can't even do it here , having to stay on you and while he goes away to school performs great , we're like why he goes . Well , then I had to do it . I know mom would do it for me at home .
Speaker 1Stuff like that . So just normalize some of that stuff . Some of it is just a growth process .
Speaker 2But part of this . But the other part , I would say it is challenging when they start choosing maybe not the good , not wise friends . That's the part as a parent you gotta figure out . Okay , when do I come in and set boundaries and rescue them , and when do I ? That's the tough part .
Speaker 1It is the tough part .
Speaker 2My daughter was a social person , right , so she was a cheerleader in high school . She wanted to go all these parties . Well , she was strong base as a Christian . We go okay , I guess you can go , but we want you to tell us what's going on . She'd go and come home and say , yeah , these people are drinking and throwing up , but we allowed it longest . We felt like she was still following God . It seems weird . A lot of people criticize us , but we said look , you know , the minds will get out in the world now , before she goes to college . So by the time she got to college she'd already seen all that . Right , so she was different .
Speaker 1That was great advice . Yeah , it was great advice . I just did that with mine . So we have a software on our phone called Bark and I would tell any teenage parent to get it . Basically , whenever there is so it's basically my wife's phone taps into my kid's phones and whenever there is like a bullying language , profanity , we get a bark notice . And so there was some bark notices coming and she was in a chat and they were using the F word , the S word and they were , you know , sexual content and stuff like that . And I went to my child and I said , well , what do you think about this ? Like , man , I don't even want to be on that chat . I'm trying to get off that chat . Like I'm going to have to tell them to just take me off .
Speaker 1And her position was like , yes , those are people I go to school with , but that's not me . And it was interesting because I had to , like I had to give her enough space . So she wanted to go out to Disney Springs and she was going to go with this group of friends and as a parent it was like , man , you need some new friends . But it was almost . She almost took it like , well , what's wrong with my friends ? Why are you coming at my friends ?
Speaker 1And I had to break it down Like it's not about your friends necessarily , it's about you . Know , if you show me your friends , I can prophesy your future . But this is what I decided to do . I said you know what ? I trust you and I'm going to trust you to go out there with people Cause , just like you said , it's going to come , whether it's in high school , whether it's in college , whether it's in the workplace , you're going to have people that aren't godly , or they might be say they believe in God , but they don't live like it . But at the end of the day , you're still going to have to make the kind of decision where you're going to do what's right because it's right . So I want to give you , I want to give you enough trust to be able to allow you and that won't work all the time , but it's almost like . It's almost like an art , not a science , of knowing .
Speaker 2It depends on the child too . Right , it depends on the child , and again she handled it well , but it was scary .
Speaker 1You know , yeah , that's how I feel , like I mean cause I like want to protect them , like never hear a cuss word or never be around people that drink , and that's not reality .
Speaker 2That's not reality .
Speaker 1No , not at all . Well , I'm going to . I'm going to get myself together here as a parent . It's like the greatest area that I'm trying to grow in right now is the parenting piece . It's like Lord , I don't know what I'm doing here , yeah .
Speaker 2But praying for him is huge , Right , you know that . Praying for the what's that book called praying for a praying wife ? They got one for the children out there .
Speaker 3Storm there's a really good classic . You talking about the praying circles no , no .
Speaker 2The prayer circle .
Speaker 1Oh well , Okay , well , maybe we'll find it out , I'll put it in the show notes . Man , I could go on and on , cause I got so many questions for you as it relates to leadership and church and everything , but I feel like we're kind of out of time for the day . But , man , that was so good . Thank you so much for sharing that . Hey guys , this is Pastor Craig Alton from Grace Family Church in Tampa .
Speaker 1If you're ever in the Tampa area , you gotta stop by and check out what they're doing over there and he's an amazing , amazing man that has built an amazing ministry and now actually has a succession plan where he is preaching less because he has learned the principles of succession , where he has passed off and a lot of and that's what I wanted to talk about cause a lot of pastors they hold on to it too long and they hold on to the reins and it ends up the whole ministry goes down the tube Because they do not know how to pass it along .
Speaker 2Yeah , you gotta have a good transition , and sometimes they try to make a quick handle if it doesn't work that way . How long has your succession plan been ? It's been in place about four years , four years . Building this team underneath me and having other people speak , and I'm now one of the three or four teaching pastors . And the other day the lady's been with me 20 years says I love you , but I love the new guy more . Now you gotta be okay with that Right . I must decrease , they must increase .
Speaker 1Come on Right so , but it's fun . So now , what you doing , man ? You just got off the tip of the sunset . Man , I've got some flexibility . Now I'm gonna still be there , but different role .
Speaker 2Different role , Right I'll play a different role , but I wanna still be there , but I think that that old traditional drive from the sunset . Why would I leave something I built Right ? As long as I keep my mouth shut , though , it'll let me stay and let other people leave . That's right .
Speaker 1So you have obviously been an empowering leader when you have just saying , okay , I've built this , but now I'm gonna empower others to speak . Empower others to lead , and that's what I'm trying to do as well .
Speaker 3So , man , I really respect that . Maybe we'll do another podcast .
Speaker 1Hey , we'll do it , man . Let's talk about leadership and success .
Speaker 2Love your church Ken .
Speaker 1Thank you so much for tuning in to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha today . If you are new to our podcast , make sure that you hit the subscribe button as soon as you can , or hit the download button to get hold of the podcast , of course , wherever podcasts are found and also on YouTube , we release a new podcast every Thursday at 3 pm . We want you to be the first to get content . We also , in the show notes , have an email address . If you have any questions , we'd love to hear from you . Write a good review . If you don't have a good review , keep it to yourself and pray for us , but write a good review . Comment like share . It really encourages us . Just know that we're praying for you and we thank you for praying for us , and so until next time . Thank you so much for tuning in to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha . We'll see you soon , peace .