Hey , welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha . We are so pumped that you're tuning in to this podcast . It has been designed for people just like you . We wanna do life with you , share our wins , our defeats , our ups and our downs , in hopes that you'll grow closer to God and to the people that you love in your life . Sit back and enjoy today's podcast . Alrighty , are you guys ready to rock and roll today , or what we're ready to go ? Come on , let's welcome everybody . Thank you so much for tuning in to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha . I'm Ken and this is Tabitha , and we're pumped that you're here with us . So glad that you found us .
Speaker 1And we hope that you get some great value out of today . I mean , we're gonna get into some things about forgiveness and unforgiveness today that we hope will set the cap to free and just be really good for you .
Speaker 3It's gonna be great . And before we do that , can I read something ? Somebody wrote a comment about our podcast . This is from Ket Kiem . I know I'm not saying this right . 2710 , wow , so amazing . There's a reason why God wanted me to come across this podcast . This is the second episode I've watched and I have been so blessed . Thank you so much . This is a blessing and this is what I was missing and needing . God bless you and give you both more knowledge to keep teaching us these things . As a 22 year old , it is never too early to start learning about marriage and life in general as a daughter of God . You go girl . Thank you so much for writing into us . This is a blessing for us . I mean , it gives us life , and so this is an answer to our prayer . This is why we do it , so that we can be a blessing to other people .
Speaker 1We actually pray and ask God to put our podcast and our show in the hands and ears of people around the world that it would bring value to . I mean our goal is to help people grow closer to God and closer to the people that God's placed in their life , and so those reviews , those comments , they're blessing to us . They are like the wind beneath our wings , especially in an environment where people can be negative for people to know people are praying for us , and I'm being blessed by the content .
Speaker 1That's what's up . Y'all keep on sharing . Today's episode is a good one , y'all . This is the one that will bring forth real healing , and this is the one that's so hard for many people . Today's episode is entitled Learning to Forgive , and I think it's something that you have to learn to do . Matter of fact , it is natural that when people have hurt you , to want to hurt them . You know the Old Testament talks about something like an eye for an eye or tooth for a tooth .
Speaker 1I don't know if it's Old Testament , that's just the saying , but basically it means that when you do me wrong , I'm gonna do you wrong If you do me good , I'm gonna do you good .
Speaker 1But then the New Testament teaches us something completely different , talks about turning the other cheek . It talks about overcoming good with evil , and today I really wanna lean into Tabitha on this subject . I feel like you are very equipped when it comes to forgiveness . I feel like it is a strong thing with you . I feel like it's . I know it's not easy , but you make it look easy . I've seen people really do hurtful things to you . I've seen where you've come from . I've seen you be betrayed and lied about and rejected and abandoned , but I still see you love unlovely people , and so I just want to kind of pick your head today and allow the Holy Spirit to use you to help us learn to forgive . And so .
Speaker 1I will say fry us , we are your egg .
Speaker 3Fry us . We are your egg . And where do you get that from ?
Speaker 1Don't worry about it . So what is forgiveness to you ? Can you kind of define it for ?
Speaker 3us . Ooh , first of all , thank you , for I don't know . I just feel like , wow , thank you for saying that . It's definitely not something that you know , you're like , it's not a badge , like yay , you know , because in order to be able to forgive so much , you have to been wronged so much . And , wow , thankful that I'm here . What is forgiveness to me ? Forgiveness to me is an act of love . I think it is one of the things that we can do that will cause us or it's one of the things I think it causes us to be most like God .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 3You know like he forgave us of so much , and now we have the opportunity to forgive others of so much , and he paid the ultimate price that we will never , ever be able to pay . But I can do this much , I can do my part , and I think that's probably my definition of forgiveness .
Speaker 1Right , so you can forgive because you realize how much you've been forgiven of , and so that's huge . I think the classical definition for me , or forgiveness , would be the release of a wrong meaning , that you've done something wrong and I'm releasing you from that .
Speaker 1Meaning that you don't owe me anything . You owe me nothing but love . You don't owe me my innocencey back , or you don't owe me my childhood back , or you don't owe me necessarily an apology , even though people should apologize . I think I'm gonna give forgiveness first , not just for them , but actually for me . I learned years ago that unforgiveness is like drinking poison but expecting the other person to die .
Speaker 1It actually only kills you , and I've seen people harbor unforgiveness Almost like it's their way to protect themselves , like they've been molested , abused , abandoned , rejected , and if I give you forgiveness , I'm letting you get the one up on me , but actually you giving them forgiveness is promoting your life ahead and I think people need to know that .
Speaker 3Absolutely . I kind of feel like I'd been there in my life . People had really hurt me and I became bitter and angry , like I just I wanted to get back at them or I wasn't going to do anything good for them . But I found out that , even though I had this bitterness on the inside of me currently , at that time I was depressed . I was taking antidepressants , I was having panic attacks , I was having a hard time loving people and allowing people into my world . That was my life and they had no idea what I was going through . They were living their life as if everything was great . They were having their highs and lows , their ups and downs . That was on them . Me being bitter and angry only hurt me . The other , they were oblivious to what I was going through . It only hurt me .
Speaker 1Do you feel like there's a difference between unforgiveness and hurt ?
Speaker 3I think I mean , yeah , there's a difference . Someone can hurt you and you can choose to . There's your hurt . Now what are you going to do with that ? Are you going to just hold it all in and allow it to become bitter , anger , resentment , all of that thing , all of that stuff , or are you going to choose to let it go ? I think forgiveness is the letting it go .
Speaker 1Yeah , for me . So I don't know what kind of things comes to your mind that you feel like you've really had to practice forgiveness in .
Speaker 3I think I mean so . I was hurt in my past . I was sexually abused , physically abused , verbally abused . There's a lot of domestic violence going on in my childhood . People definitely had done a lot of wrong to me growing up and I think that would probably be the biggest thing that I had to forgive is that being so young and not being able to do anything about it . And then , as I grew up into my adult and young adult years , then I felt like I can do something about it . Now I wanna fight . Now I wanna go back . I wanna do something to right this wrong .
Speaker 1And when you say do something , what did you have in ?
Speaker 3mind . I didn't have anything really in mind but to hate that person , but to despise that person . They're never going to , I'm never gonna do anything for them . I'm never like I just want to be completely detached from that person . The problem is and this is the problem for most people that person was a part of my life . That person was very close to me and my family .
Speaker 1Well , actually , what I've learned is that it's only the people that are the closest that can hurt you the most is pretty much . I mean , if it's a stranger and they're criticizing you or throwing shots at you , who cares ? You don't even know me . But it's the closer that you are when you should have a job to protect that . You actually hurt me . That's when it actually comes in . So most of it comes from someone very , very close . Let's just put it like that .
Speaker 1And of course we're doing our very best . We're not naming names or saying specific things , but we're talking about principles here , Because we've actually grown to the place where we know we don't wrestle against flesh and blood . So the battle is really not about the people who've hurt us . They were simply pawns in the hands of the enemy to still kill and destroy something in our life . So it's not that personal . We're beyond that now .
Speaker 1But I know for some people it really , really is . So just tell me a little bit more . So how did you overcome that ? What are some things you've had to walk in forgiveness ?
Speaker 3I think the main thing I did to overcome was to pray for the people who hurt me ? To pray for the people that I hated . There was a work that I had to do within myself . Not only was there unforgiveness , but there was hatred , and that's just . We're not supposed to be hating . There was bitterness , I was angry , I mean , there was a rage on the inside of me , and I had to deal with those issues .
Speaker 1Now I understand what it's about If you have a person that has sexually molested you , or if you've been raped or if you've been taken advantage of it almost feels like they deserve that rage . They deserve that hate . Matter of fact , most people without God would justify , and they would hand you to God and say , okay , they did that to you . You have a right to that . And so I mean , just tell me a little bit more about that .
Speaker 3So that's where I was , and I mean I had been . The Bible talks about having lust in your heart . I had a premeditated murder in my heart and so , no , I never murdered anyone , naturally , but in my heart I murdered someone .
Speaker 1Or even if you was given the chance , yeah , if I had the opportunity maybe my thoughts were there . Hey , well , thank you for keeping it 100 , that's for sure . And maybe someone is not there , but maybe they've went through a divorce , or maybe they would let go from a job , or maybe they had someone betray them or steal from them or had a real Judah situation . I think the feelings are very much similar . You have been abandoned , rejected , betrayed , lied about . Now what are you gonna do ?
Speaker 3What are you gonna do about it ?
Speaker 1Now let's take this instance here with the sexual molestation , and this was someone who was a close part of your life growing up and I actually saw you in your adult years approach the person about what had happened and his response was that man , we were wow , when we were young and I was drinking and I don't even remember it and you know what I kind of believed him . I did too Now , but it didn't make it better , but you were able to kind of confront it and I'm saying that you always can do that .
Speaker 1A lot of people can never confront their abusers or people who've hurt them .
Speaker 3And it wouldn't be wise for some people to do it Like don't go there .
Speaker 1But for whatever reason you did that and he actually , I think he apologized .
Speaker 3Yeah , he said he was sorry .
But you know one thing that I felt was hurtful in that situation but even though you had other people that were close to you , they still almost didn't even believe that that happened , and it was almost like they would rather side with the abuser than you .
Speaker 3They would rather me just shut up . It was a long time ago . Why are you gonna bring it up now ? Why are you gonna stir up all of this stuff now ? Or we're just saying this just to say it yeah , you just need attention .
Speaker 1Isn't that like a deeper wound ?
Speaker 3That's like even worse .
Speaker 1That's adding salt to the Talk to me about that . So how do you so ? Now you have to forgive to multiple different individuals .
Speaker 3It's snowballs . You know , sin is sin , it's ugly . There's nothing good that comes out of it .
Speaker 1I don't know . Talk to me . How do you do that ? I wanna just smack the taste out of somebody's mouth , but I've watched you over the years and I mean I can't give you all the details to this story , but I saw you forgive this individual in a way that was beautiful . It was . We ministered Jesus to this person . They said the prayer of salvation to this person .
Speaker 1You did some really , really good things that I can't go into detail with , and I just feel like you overcame evil with good , and the scripture talks about that , about how you like dump coals of fire on them , and I think many times what we wanna do is overcome evil with more evil but that ain't the way it works . I just need to know and I know I'm not giving details , but I think people understand the parameters in which I'm talking , like how .
Speaker 3Okay , there's a couple of things .
Speaker 3First of all , I wanna talk about how I was before , before I got saved and before , because there was a period there , a short period , that I got saved . I knew Jesus , but I didn't know anything about Jesus and his word and how we are to forgive and how we are to overcome . So this is , in my pre-Jesus slash , just born again , baby Christian phase . I was in a place where I did . I had the hatred , I had the anger and the resentment , and I wanted to fight , I wanted to do something . The fruit that I was getting , though , was that I saw the person who hurt me and the people who hurt me and the people who I was angry with , and their lives were going on . They didn't care about my hurt , and I had this secret life that I was living in my early 20s , where I was in college and I was going to school and I was doing all this stuff and I'm the first one in my family to go to college , and I , you know , like yay tab , she's doing all this stuff but , secretly , I was depressed Severely . Secretly , I was popping anti-depressants and drinking alcohol to numb my pain . Secretly , I would have panic attacks and have nightmares about my childhood and some of the things that happened in my childhood . Secretly , I had this weight that I just could not carry on my own , and so I was breaking down . I was having suicidal thoughts . I Started to entertain , like , okay , nobody really loves me . Yeah , like people really don't . I mean , I got a couple friends , but they don't really know me . If they really knew what I was going through , they wouldn't love me . What would it be like without me in this world ? Mm-hmm . And so that's where I was . Now I get saved . Jesus changes things in me .
Speaker 3Yeah , I start to go to church and search for the word of God . I find the word of God and I'm reading about Unforgiveness . I'm reading about how you know you need to forgive so that other people , so that God can forgive you . I'm filling myself with the word of God and then I find out that God is a healer and then he could heal me from depression . Because I thought , you know , I didn't . I just didn't think that he could heal . I heard , like a little birdie tell me that you know he could heal you if you had a broken leg or something like maybe a miracle could happen that way . But the mental thing like I didn't think I could be healed of that , and so I started to believe that God would heal me of depression . And as I began to pray , god led me to pray for the people who hurt me and abused me .
Speaker 3Okay , and I think this is where it started for me , because I didn't want to be where I was , and when I was wasn't helping anyone and wasn't hurting anyone else , so I needed to get out , and so I began to pray , and it was not easy . It was like so difficult being a new believer because I didn't know how to pray in the first place . But then you're telling me to pray for somebody that I literally hate right now . But I'm saying that , no , I forgive them , I don't want to hate them anymore , god . And I would just say things like God bless them . God blesses kids and it would get deeper God blesses finances . Let them never be hungry , right ? Let them never Be hurt .
Speaker 3I pray that you put good people around him that would keep him safe and have his back regardless . God , do a work in him . Make him like Paul on the road to Damascus . Give Damascus yeah , what is it ? Okay I'm I feel like I'm saying it wrong give on an experience and encounter with Jesus that will change this world , like I started really going in in prayer and I think that's where Forgiveness was birthed in my heart . So sometimes it wasn't an overnight process with me . It was .
Speaker 1It wasn't overnight , but it was a process of forgiveness and I think that that's how you can tell that you're there when you want good to happen For that person .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1Because , honestly , I've kind of I've had people betray me . I've put my trust in people , I've done certain things and have them kind of stab me in the back . I've had situations where I felt really rejected , abandoned , looked over , talked about lot about you know and honestly , when I see those people at the mall , it ain't like I'm like oh praise God , you know , yeah , now you'll say that and you go up to him and I think that's always something that I wrestle with as a believer , like where is Is unforgiveness versus that ?
Speaker 1I just don't trust you right like your actions and to me the line is , and you can tell me if I'm wrong . I think that as long as I want good to happen for that person , I'm willing to pray for that person and I'm kind of there for that person . Yeah , I needed something . I could say that about everybody in my life , and if they needed something for me , they can call me and I would help them . I really , and I generally , will pray the blessing of God on them .
Speaker 3I don't want them to be held back .
Speaker 1I do not want evil to come upon them , but that don't mean I want to hang out with you . Exactly , I want to hang out with you . You know I'm saying like so . To me there's a difference between , like , trusting someone and forgiving them . Yeah , like I can forgive you . You don't owe me anything , but that doesn't mean that I want you in my inner circle . You don't owe me anything , but that doesn't mean I don't love you . I'm gonna love you from a distance . Possibly I'm gonna be very guarded . You know it doesn't mean that when I , when I see you , I'm just gonna hang out like I'm gonna treat you kind I'm gonna teach you like a creation of God , but you're not gonna be in the inner circle .
Speaker 1Am I wrong for that ?
Speaker 3I don't think you're wrong . I think often , in most times , trust is earned . Even when we're new , new believers and we're just stepping out in faith , it's like I trust God with everything that I had . I trust God more than myself or anyone because I took these little baby Steps of faith and every time God comes through he never lets me down , you know , and I trust them with everything now , so even my relationship with God and my trust in him . You know , it was just something that was kind of earned over time . And when people show you their cards up front , listen to believe them . Yeah , when they say this is who I am , believe them .
Speaker 3Yeah don't do the crit , you know , because we like to say oh well , we just believe the best of every person and that person is a liar , you know , like it's okay .
Speaker 1I think the average Christian feels persecuted and a half bit of guilt and condemnation , because the scripture says If they take your out of garment , give them your undergarment also Mm-hmm . If they hit you on one cheek , turn the other cheek , mm-hmm . And it has this , these sayings and things , that makes it feel like you just supposed to let Anybody do what walk all over you .
Speaker 3That's not it .
Speaker 1I don't think that . That's why I think that I know who I am . I know the kind of love that I bring to a relationship . I know the kind of generosity that's in my heart . I know what I mean to people . Yeah if you want to take advantage of that or you don't understand that I can love you from a distance love from a distance .
Speaker 1That doesn't mean that I'm walking in unforgiveness . It just means that I'm wise enough not to invest myself Consistently into toxic environments that are actually gonna hurt me from being able to help the people that I'm helping , and I think that's so liberating . Believe is understand , like . To me , forgiveness is like you don't owe me anything I and I don't owe you anything other than love , and I'm gonna give you love , and it might be love from a distance , but it doesn't mean that we got to be best friends and and I'm gonna let you continue to be toxic in my life .
Speaker 3Oh yeah , absolutely . And you know there's a difference between love and like . I love you because I've been commanded to love even my enemies . A Gop , a love , unconditional love . I care about whether you live eternity in heaven or hell . Yeah , I care about whether you suffer or live joyously like . I care about those things , but I don't have to like you . There's a lot of things that we do as believers . God loves us , but he don't like that nasty mouth that you have . There's a lot of things that my kids do . I love them unconditionally , but I don't like the way they're treating each other right now .
Speaker 3And I think we , that's how we are with anyone we come in contact with , and especially people who have hurt us , and we have to release that unforgiveness toward it just why do you think this is a big deal ?
Speaker 1though wise , I'm learning to walk in forgiveness . Such a big deal for the believer .
Speaker 3It's hard , it hurts . No , why is ?
Speaker 1it ? No , why is it ? Why is it a big deal for us to grasp it ? Why do we need ? I don't know , because .
Speaker 3Jesus has such a great example . God's such a great example , here's one . Possibly it's because , even though we forgive the offense , we can still remember the offense . And when I was growing up and when I was struggling with forgiveness , I always thought well , you forgive and forget . Oh , just forgive and forget , it's okay . Well , the problem is , you can forgive , but you can't , I can't forget . I can't go back and erase my memory , not unless God does some supernatural thing . What I don't remember , this I remember what you did , like it was yesterday , you know , like I remember . So it's hard to be like , oh , I forgive you , but you still see them doing what they did , you know , in the back of your imagination somewhere . That's why it's hard . But , like I said , when we work on forgiveness , you can't just say I forgive you for what you've done . You also have to work on yourself .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 3I for it . Okay , I'm gonna deal with that hatred that I have toward them right now . I'm gonna deal with how that okay , that hurt me . Well , why didn't it hurt me so much ? You have to deal with yourself , and when you release the hurt and all of the other pain and all of the other offenses within yourself and you deal with you know , but that's between you and Jesus then the forgiveness Can be easier toward the other person .
Speaker 1I mean that was so good . That wasn't really what I meant by that question . I didn't mean like , why is this such a big deal ? What I meant is why is learning to forgive so important ?
Speaker 3Like , what , oh , why is it important ?
Speaker 1Yeah , what benefit does it have ?
Speaker 3to us , oh my .
Speaker 1But I mean , I appreciate that , but that's really what I'm talking about . Yeah , totally .
Speaker 3I think you know . The Bible says that even when you pray , if you have an offense towards someone , put your offering down . Don't even pray , Don't even ask God for anything . First go and fix it with whoever you have an offense with . Then come to me .
Speaker 1There's a scripture that actually says that when a husband and wife is in disagreement with one another or bickering , their prayers are hindered . That's how much unity is important it actually . There's so many hindrances , so forgiveness is huge .
Speaker 3Judge not lest you be judged . You know , forgive so that your father in heaven can forgive you . I wanna be forgiven . You talk about being scared .
Speaker 1Think about not being forgiven of your sin , because you won't forgive someone else of their sin being choked out like choked out , like of the blessing of God , of the anointing of God being choked out because they're harboring unforgiveness . They're just holding on to it and they don't understand that it's strangling themselves .
Speaker 3That was me when I was depressed . We want you free . We want you free .
Speaker 1I wanna look very quickly at what does the Bible teach us about forgiveness . Okay , I'll read a couple of scriptures . You can just jump in or stop me if you have something to add . Mark 11 , 25 says and whenever you stand praying , forgive If you have anything against anyone , so that your father also , who is in heaven , may forgive you of your trespasses . That's the one you were just using .
Speaker 3I think that's good to practice as like forgiveness as a lifestyle . So every time you pray , think about who you need to forgive . You know this is a lifestyle . This is . You know what we're doing Every time we take communion .
I know there are offenses . I've started practicing this because in my life there are little offenses that can build up and at the end , yeah to unforgiveness , and at the end of the day , you're just exploding on people . It could be like , okay , in traffic on your way to work , you were offended by this person and offended by that person at work . This person says this and this person says that there's offense after offense . You go out to lunch and the waiter's crazy and now there's another offense and by the end of the day , there's all these offenses that have built up . And if you have not made the conscious decision , oh , I forgive you .
Speaker 3And I started to do this because I'm crazy and I joke a lot and clown around and do all this stuff . But I'd like be driving through traffic and they're doing something . I'll tell the kids they are crazy . Look at this , see , you gotta watch out because the people are crazy and I'm just cracking jokes and saying stuff and you know . But I decide . I thought , like you know what that's kind of doing something in my psyche a little bit . So I decided to release the blessing . Oh , I bless them in Jesus . Now the kids , they really think I'm crazy now because I'm talking about oh , bless them in Jesus name . Oh , I bless them because I would rather leave my blessing and what I'm doing is I'm forgiving all of those little offenses along the way . So at the end of the day , I'm free and there's no exploding on my wonderful husband .
Speaker 1For some reason I just keep thinking about the word ghosting and I'm trying to figure out where that falls in unforgiveness , you know , to ghost somebody means that you once was in a relationship with them and then you just completely disappear and you just cut them off and I think sometimes we ghost people because we're trying to pay them back . We don't want anything to do with them . Wow .
Speaker 1And I don't know . I think that that it's just something to meditate on . I don't know why I keep thinking about ghosting . You know , I've had people kind of ghost me before and it's just like you know you're texting , texting , texting , not calling you back , and maybe that was just a seasonal relationship and maybe you know they're too busy with something or they changed phones or they changed numbers .
Speaker 3Well , it's coming to you , because how do you forgive someone that won't let you forgive them ? You know you want to release forgiveness , but you can't even find them . You can't even walk , talk it out , you can't even say you hurt me .
Speaker 1Well , that's an interesting angle . Yeah , coming that way , that's an interesting angle . I was thinking of the other way , like I've been ghosted and so I don't know . It just feels like that is something that's popular in culture but it could have a foot in unforgiveness . Maybe it doesn't , maybe , you know , I've had certain people . It's just like I feel like that season's over and you are texting me way too much or I have nothing of value . You know what I'm saying .
Speaker 1Or you know what I'm saying , just like oh my God , that's too much , I can't handle it . So I'm not going to say every single time , but it just feels like as well if you are ghosting someone to teach them something or to cause pain towards them or to cause anguish towards them . You know , Like on social media . I don't know if I've ever , like stopped following somebody . I think I have , here and there when it's been . I don't like it when people attack pastors , even pastors that I might not agree with or I don't like that .
Speaker 1They did something To me . It's always touch , not die anointed , and I think people are making it a sport to attack men and women of God , the same people that baptize thousands , and so sometimes I've just cut off people , but I've never felt like I've had like a friend or an employee or someone that I've went in . I've had to mute a couple of people just cause they were ignorant , but as it relates to like trying to disappear to where they never see me again , I just don't have that bend towards people , like I always want to try to leave a door open , like there are people that really owe me an apology . I mean like really they were wrong .
Speaker 1Now they might think that they were right . You know what I'm saying . They might have a perspective , or maybe I did something wrong . Whatever , whatever , I never want to close the door completely to where we can have a conversation .
Speaker 1I ain't got no time to play at the same time . You know cause some people want to talk to you , cause they feel bad , but they ain't humble enough to really be like yo . I jacked that up or maybe they haven't come to the revelation of it yet . But I always want to leave enough space for restoration because at the end of the day I feel like that's what God wants , no matter how hard it's been .
Speaker 1And that's what I've seen with you from those who've hurt you , those who've abused you and it's not just molestation and abuse and man , it's been a lot of things . It's been the betrayal of family , it's been people who should have your back actually not having your back at all . People taking what you've done nice , like completely for granted , and I mean we all have our different things . I mean people can put in the comment what their hurts are , cause there's nothing new under the sun . But I've always admired you for being able to walk through with a grace and I say like , fry us with your egg , because internally sometimes I still struggle , like I know what to do . I do forgive you , but internally to me I feel like man . This is an area that I want to get right , and I feel like you do that very well . Now you can tell me if I'm wrong , cause I don't know what goes on the inside .
Speaker 3I just feel like you just don't care , it's okay , people are people . I understand , yeah , I understand that . I understand that people are people . And when I stopped making myself the victim , when I stopped feeling like , oh well , it's because you're stupid , you're unlovable , you're not enough , it's all because of you . That's why they're treating you like this , when I became born again and Jesus filled all of those empty spaces in my heart and he took away all of those lies , then I know I'm like oh , Kathy's great relationship with my heavenly father .
Speaker 3I am fearfully and wonderfully made . Oh my God , I never knew what a great person I am . Like not to be crazy , but like , wow , I'm really a great person . I'm not what they said I am . Look at me . Then it made me be like , oh okay , they're crazy whether I'm in the factor or not . You know what I mean ? Nothing . They're not treating me this way because I need to be treated this way and deserve to be treated this way . They're treating me this way because they treat themselves that way . I remember they are tearing their own lives up .
Speaker 1Apostle Fred Price used to say don't let people's problem be your problem . Yeah your problem with me is not my problem . Yeah so many times people project their problems upon you and that's not your problem . So your problem with me is not my problem , and I think that you've mastered the ability to kind of be carefree and not make other people because I'm walking around like what them people wrong ? I'm gonna go prove them wrong or show that they wrong , you know feeding your pearls to swine .
Speaker 3I know my life before , like I said , when I was depressed and having panic attacks and you know , and couldn't function on a day-to-day level , that was when I cared about what other people thought about me . That was when I was in their circle and wanted to fit in and wanted them to approve of me . I'm not doing that anymore . Now I'm living my life to the fullest and they still don't and don't like me .
Speaker 1People gonna talk about you when you doing good . People gonna talk about doing doing bad . People gonna talk about you when you doing nothing at all right , so you might as well do good .
Speaker 1Be who cuts called you to be .
Ephesians 4 31 says get rid of all bitterness , rage and anger , brawling and slander , along with every form of malice . Be kind and compassionate to one another , forgiving each other just as in Christ , god forgave you . Matthew 6 14 says for if you forgive other people when they send against you , your heavenly father will forgive you . Colossians 3 13 says bear with each other and forgive one another if you have . If any of you has a grievance against someone , forgive as the Lord forgave you . Luke 6 37 says don't don't judge or you're gonna be judged . Don't do not condemn and you won't be condemned . Forgiven , you'll be forgiven . There's just a bunch of blessing attached to forgiveness . Okay , and the infamous one is Matthew 18 , where Peter comes to Jesus is like how many times we need to forgive and Jesus I love that 70 and not seven times , but 70 , seven all day , every day , 24-7 .
Speaker 1You won't forgive him , you know , and so any . Can you give me some practical steps of how do you forgive someone , just practically ?
Speaker 3I think Basically we kind of talked about a little bit already is pray for them . I think that's the number one step .
Speaker 1Pray for them consistently .
Speaker 3Pray for them in detail . Okay , I think , make it a lifestyle . Make forgiveness a lifestyle . It's hard to be mad at somebody when or you know , it's hard to be mad at someone that you're what you're praying for . And I Think there are certain things that can happen in our day-to-day lives that could trigger Unforgiveness or like trigger a previous offense , and we have to learn how to deal with that immediately . Nope , I forgive them in the name of Jesus . No , I release forgiveness upon them . I think there are times when let's say , you know , because I have people that , like I say , I'm close to that , I have released forgiveness toward that have really hurt me , but I could have a conversation with them today and they could really hurt me again . You know what I mean . But today I don't backslide and become depressed and sad and all that again . No , I release forgiveness again today . There's , you know , every day I'm going to keep doing the same thing . You know , like I'm not gonna be surprised by this , I'm going to release forgiveness again . So what ?
Speaker 1you're saying is that it's a consistent thing ?
Speaker 3It's consistent , for goodness is a lifestyle .
Speaker 1It reminds me of is when Jesus was on the cross and the people were stoning him . They actually called for Jesus to be crucified instead of Barabbas was a name .
Speaker 1Barabbas , barabbas , barabbas . He was a known murderer . Jesus did absolutely nothing other than heal the sick , raise the dead , open the blinded eyes , and they wanted to crucify him For no cause at all . And on the cross , jesus says forgive them , for they know not what they do . Yes , I think that's the revelation that the people who have hurt you your ex-husband , your ex-wife , your baby's mama , the people that you work with , they were pawns in the hands of the enemy and they don't even know what they're doing . You know , I've heard years ago to hurt people , hurt people , and many times , even those who abused you , mm-hmm , were probably abused themselves . Yeah , and they were . And you can bring it all the way back to the garden where sin entered in and People have been hurting , murdering and hating each other ever since , and many times it's just us who stops the generational curse and begins the blessing .
Speaker 3Yeah and so and I love that . What you said , the generational curse I was just thinking I want to forgive because I am not bringing this curse of unforgiveness Into my family , upon my children . We're not gonna go there . I want to release the blessing at any , at any time that I can , and so I think that unforgiveness to me I like a definition . It's definitely a curse . You don't want to walk in unforgiveness .
Speaker 1Well , here Let me take you down an alley . How do we bring this over into the marriage room ?
Speaker 1Because there's a lot of people who are married and they have a laundry list of things that they still bring up and and really , if you're married , you got to go back and read 1st Corinthians again and then read it again , and then read 1st Corinthians 13 , chapter 13 , read it again and then read it in a different translation and then read it in another translation . But if you read about the Agape of a God , it says stuff like it's patient . Mm-hmm . It says like it's kind Mm-hmm .
Speaker 1It says like it always believes the best and it keeps no account of wrong done to it . And and whenever you get into a fuss , a fight with your spouse and you start talking about what happened 15 years ago and how you did this 10 years ago and how you got us into this trouble five years ago , you are not really walking in the love of God . You're not . You're basically not forgiving , you have not released it . You just keep bringing it up , keep bringing up , keep bringing it up , keep bringing it up , and your relationship can't go forward if you are harboring unforgiveness .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm and sometimes there are things that it like there was infidelity , like we get it , but you decided , by the grace of God , to stay in the marriage , fight for the marriage . You have to start a new chapter , yeah , and I know you need counseling . I know you got to go and figure out how to trust again and he has to do some things , she has to do some things to build these walls of trust back . But you cannot bring Unforgiveness into your current situation and think that you're gonna have a happy marriage in the future . You're gonna have to let it go , I think it's time to let it go .
Speaker 3Let it go . The Bible says that love doesn't keep an account of past wrongs , and sometimes we'll do the opposite . We keep record of everything . Let the record show what it Claire Huxley used to say let the record show and so . But we can't do that . We got to let it practice a lifestyle of forgiveness .
Speaker 1I'll say this we heart . Please forgive me for all of the dumb things that I've done to you . It's already done wrong things that I've said to you Please forgive me for Trying to pick up other chicks at the office depot when you wasn't around .
Speaker 3We're getting details right now , wow .
Speaker 1Wow , you know , but this is what I know and you told me this the other day and I was like you know , it's this is the kind of forgiveness you have . I don't know . I was being like , doing a marriage podcast is not easy because there's warfare , mm-hmm . So we have to now navigate our relationship on a higher level of grace Because of the warfare , and we're game for it .
Speaker 1I mean we're mature enough to handle it , but I was being attacked with just the lies of the enemy . You're gonna mess this whole thing up . You're gonna mess this whole thing up , you're gonna mess this whole thing up . I don't know . We had a conversation . What you said Well , if you cheat on me , I'm still gonna forgive you already .
Speaker 1So it's okay To me , for some reason , that just let the pressure off like whatever was the plan of the enemy to attack me and attack me and attack Me with thoughts of failure , you saying up front that you were gonna forgive me , mm-hmm , I think , like I would never want to do anything to hurt your heart . You know , I'm saying like .
Speaker 1I know that that's far out and that's kind of weird , yeah , but what I'm trying to do is to give people a picture of the power of forgiveness . And so when I say fries were your egg , that's what I mean . You're telling me that you've already premeditated . If I have cheated on you , that you're already forgive me in advance . That's crazy . You'll never have to do that , mm-hmm , but that's crazy and I , I want that , and I believe that there are people who are watching and listening to this that their mind Is completely blown . Right now . I Cannot stop without just saying how , like what , what , what is that ? You just ?
Speaker 3there's a couple of things , yeah there's a there's a few things number one I've been doing this , you know I've been pastoring for years now and I've seen women , you know , in relationships . I've seen them . You know some people their spouse , their husband's , cheated and they left . Some they has stayed together , and so I've really had the opportunity to think what would I do in this situation ? And I , you know , would say that I would take you back , number one .
Speaker 3I look at Jesus in the example that I preach and teach all the time about forgiveness . I think about the man that I married and and like I just I see , I think I love you . I think you're the the most fantastic human being on this earth right now . I love everything about you . I love the history that we have together . I have , I love your love , the love that you have for God and how you love God .
Speaker 3If you could fall so far from the grace of God you know what I mean If you could fall so far from where you are right now , something had to be wrong , something , and I just feel like you deserve a wife who will be there for you . If you fall so far that you disgrace yourself , your ministry , everything that God has you know done , and the glory that you bring to God's name by the testimony from your life . If you fall that far , I just feel like you need me to have your back in that moment . I don't think it's about me or anything that I've done . You need . You need your wife more than ever before , and that . I know that sounds dumb , but that's just really how I feel .
Speaker 1I don't think it sounds dumb . I think if someone thinks it sounds dumb , they're dumb . No , I'm just playing . I feel like it's not dumb , I think it's powerful . It brings tears to my eyes because this is people say is God real ? That's how you know God's real when he transforms a person's heart and a life in such a way that his attributes can be seen by example , without a Bible in hand . You know , and I know that this is not about me I haven't watched pornography in over 22 years , even flirted with another woman in over 22 years .
Speaker 1I have a lot of guard lines , guard rails around my heart and mind . I also know who I am in my flesh and in my flesh dwell of no good thing . I think it's important for people with platform and notoriety and influence to know that every new level there's a new devil and you need to be able to have know who you are , know what your weaknesses are . But so I don't think that this right here , this in part , which was not planned , is about me . I think it's about a principle of the power of forgiveness .
Speaker 3Really is .
Speaker 1That's a principle of the power of forgiveness . I think that everybody should be dropping like emojis mind blown emojis because I'm just done Like , if we , as Christ followers , exemplify that and I'm not saying that you have to because adultery is a biblical out . I don't want somebody to hear this and say , well , I didn't do that . No , that's up to you . Yeah , you have to feel bad about that . You have a biblical out .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1But what we're talking about today is the power , and some people have been through , been through .
Speaker 3But here's the point I started to say if you feel so far from God's grace , I don't think you can fall from God's grace , Like that's what . God's grace covers you . What in the world happened on the inside of me ? Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 1They got you so far from the person you proclaimed to be .
Speaker 1I've listened to your podcast , I've listened to your sermons , I've read the books . What was happening in you and what you're saying is that you have something in your DNA that will go to try to cover in that moment , and I think it's applaudable . Can we just end it at that ? Yeah , just saying wow , wow . Well guys , thank you so much for tuning in to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha today . Our prayer for you is that you will be able to love the unlovely and forgive the unforgivable . Yes , we believe it will bring great blessing , increased benefit to your life , and so I pray in Jesus' name for those of you all who've been harboring this bitterness and this resentment and this anger towards the people that have been in your life .
Speaker 1forgive them , for they knew not what they were doing , and I pray that you will be the better because of it and you will be the example of Jesus in the earth realm .
Speaker 1Yes , Thank you for tuning in today . We hope that you join us again on
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