

      <h2 id="chapter_39333420">Why Lists Poison A Marriage</h2>


        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>0:00</time>
      <p>
          When it comes to list keeping, there are certain people who are married, and it&#39;s like whenever there&#39;s an argument, you go back to every wrong that&#39;s ever been done.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>0:08</time>
      <p>
          That person has been hurt and they&#39;ve never been healed. You started keeping account at the first hurt and you never got properly healed or have forgiven from that first hurt, and then everything that happened after that, you started be keeping account for.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>0:22</time>
      <p>
          It just snowballed, it just piled on all this. Now you got years of this stuff, and there&#39;s a disconnect. To me, it destroys intimacy, it destroys closeness. We can never move on. You cannot say that you forgive, but you still are making me pay for something. Forgiveness in its definition is that I release you from wrong. I release you because God&#39;s released me. Why you keep a list of their wrongs and how it&#39;s hurting your marriage? Today&#39;s gonna be a good one, sweetheart. Are you ready for it?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>0:54</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m ready.
      </p>

      <h2 id="chapter_39333421">Our Marriage And Why We Teach</h2>


        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>0:55</time>
      <p>
          Welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. Pumped to have you with us today. If you&#39;re new to our podcast, hit the subscribe button so you can be the first to get the content. We release new episodes every Thursday at 3 p.m. Today&#39;s our specialty. You know, we&#39;ve been married for 26 years, y&#39;all. And it&#39;s about to be 27. And uh man, time flies when you&#39;re having fun. That&#39;s right. But our marriage didn&#39;t start off like it is now. Um, we thought we would end up divorced. We had a lot of problems in the beginning of our marriage, um, shutting down the silent treatment, her overcoming depression, me not being faithful, weaponizing sex, um, all of the classic triggers. We had those things. But with the help of God and other godly marriages, we learned some tools. This podcast is just taking it and paying it forward. Yes. We don&#39;t have a special anointing or a special God, even though we are anointed and we do love God, um, we have some tools. And I believe with the right tools, you can actually turn a bad marriage to a good one.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>1:54</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>1:55</time>
      <p>
          And so today&#39;s episode is entitled, Why You Keep a List of Their Wrongs and How It&#39;s Hurting Your Marriage. And so when you hear keeping a list,
      </p>

      <h2 id="chapter_39333422">What List Keeping Really Means</h2>


        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:05</time>
      <p>
          what does that mean to you in marriage?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:08</time>
      <p>
          I think no, don&#39;t do that. Uh, and I&#39;m reminded of scripture that says keep no account of wrongs.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:14</time>
      <p>
          Uh-huh.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:15</time>
      <p>
          Um, and so I&#39;m like, ooh, that&#39;s not good.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:18</time>
      <p>
          Give me an example of keeping a list. What do you mean by that?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:20</time>
      <p>
          When you&#39;re keeping a list, it&#39;s like you have identified this as someone who you are building a case against. And so, in order to prove your point, to prove them wrong, and to prove them guilty, you are going to keep a list, keep track of everything that they&#39;ve done.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>2:41</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m sorry. That just that that what you just said, it&#39;s not just a marriage thing. I&#39;ve seen it even on staff to where people are keeping a list of a supervisor&#39;s wrong or keeping a list. And it&#39;s just something about the list keepers that I don&#39;t think. Let&#39;s bring it back over into marriage. I&#39;m sorry. Okay, okay, yeah. Uh, that ain&#39;t what you want to do. And so many times people keep a list of their offenses or their hurt. And um, but they kind of forget the growth of the good things. Why do you think that is? Like it&#39;s easy for people to keep like a list of the things I don&#39;t like about you, but it&#39;s not even to the things that are good about me.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>3:21</time>
      <p>
          You know, I&#39;ve trained myself to not do that because it&#39;s not, you know, it&#39;s it&#39;s the opposite of forgiveness, which God tells us to walk in forgiveness.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>3:29</time>
      <p>
          Just park right there for a minute. You&#39;ve trained yourself not to do that. What does that mean and why?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>3:34</time>
      <p>
          That means that um when you when you&#39;re keeping track of wrong, you&#39;re an accuser of the brethren. You align yourself with Satan, the enemy. So as a wife, if I&#39;m like, oh, he don&#39;t do this and he don&#39;t do this, and I&#39;m literally keeping track of this stuff, all I&#39;m that&#39;s what Satan does. He goes before God and he says, Oh, well, Ken did this and Ken did that, and he&#39;s accusing you. Okay, why would I be on the same page as the enemy? Why would I join forces with the enemy and begin accusing you? I&#39;m just not gonna do that. And so I understand that. Um, uh so, and therefore I&#39;m like, okay, I&#39;m not gonna do that. Also, forgiveness is really big for me. Forgiveness set me free um from a lot of shame and guilt and depression and anger and rage. Um, and so if you um are going to walk in forgiveness, you cannot keep a track, you can&#39;t keep track of what someone&#39;s doing wrong.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>4:31</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>4:31</time>
      <p>
          Jesus said on the cross, forgive them for they know not what they do. Like you just have to forgive people. Um, I don&#39;t know. There&#39;s a a couple of things.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>4:40</time>
      <p>
          Yeah, yeah. Um, do you feel like when it comes to keeping this list of wrongs, do you feel like people do that to kind of protect themselves? Or like what&#39;s the motive behind it? I I think there&#39;s somebody who&#39;s watching this that maybe they&#39;re like, what does that mean? Don&#39;t keep a list. Like I know that they did this and they did that. It&#39;s like natural to them. So when you say I&#39;ve trained myself not to do it, like I&#39;m still kind of wondering, like, what does that mean? How do how do you train yourself not to keep a list? If obviously I have a list. Like I have a list, like you ain&#39;t paid the bills, you got us foreclosed on, you um, you, you, you were unfaithful, you, you did this, you did that. Like I have a list. Are you saying I&#39;m supposed to like forget what the person did?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>5:26</time>
      <p>
          Uh no, I&#39;m not saying that, but I&#39;m not keeping a list to accuse them or bring it against them. I might keep a list, meaning that like I remember the things that they&#39;ve done. Um, but I&#39;m not, and I&#39;m not going to be stupid like if you, you know, stole from me one time, I probably won&#39;t, you know, put yours myself in the situation where you can steal from me again, if if at all possible. Right. But I&#39;m also not going to walk in fear and put up 10 security systems and lights around my home and c and you know, make my house a compound to where no one in the world can ever penetrate through this force field because I was stole from one time. Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>6:10</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>6:11</time>
      <p>
          There&#39;s just like we can overcorrect and overreact.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>6:13</time>
      <p>
          So I think what you&#39;re saying is that it&#39;s not that I forget, but it&#39;s just not that I&#39;m bringing it up. It&#39;s not on the forefront of my mind. Um, I I guess when it comes to list keeping, there are certain people who are married, and it&#39;s like whenever there&#39;s an argument, you go back to every wrong that&#39;s ever been done. I mean, you can go back to 1989 and say, Well, you remember you did this and you remember this. And I don&#39;t know exactly how to explain how that&#39;s wrong. Yeah. I get it that you remember that, but the fact that you&#39;re bringing it up, yeah, what does it do? To me, it destroys intimacy, it destroys closeness. We can never move on. You cannot say that you forgive, but you still are making me pay for something. Like forgiveness in its definition is that I release you from wrong. So you don&#39;t owe me an apology, you don&#39;t owe me money back, you don&#39;t owe me my time back. I release you because God&#39;s released me. But there&#39;s something about when a person always brings up old stuff, yeah, it&#39;s like you still got it. Talk to me.
      </p>

      <h2 id="chapter_39333423">Unhealed Wounds And The Warehouse</h2>


        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>7:18</time>
      <p>
          I I think I understand what you&#39;re saying. I this is what I think it is. That person has been hurt and they&#39;ve never been healed.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>7:25</time>
      <p>
          Okay.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>7:25</time>
      <p>
          You started keeping account at the first hurt and you never got properly healed or have forgiven from that first hurt. And then everything that happened after that, you started be keeping account for.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>7:37</time>
      <p>
          It just snowballed, it just piled on all this. Now you got years of this stuff, and there&#39;s a disconnect.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>7:42</time>
      <p>
          And we all know people like this. It could be whether it&#39;s toward a job, a spouse, uh, you know, schooling, something like, well, this happened when I was eight years old. And then you don&#39;t remember anything before that. But after that, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you start keeping account because you&#39;ve been hurt and never been healed. I&#39;m reminded, um, I meet people, and you know, we both do, and we talk to people in marriages and stuff. And um a lot of times one of the spots, one of the the husband or the wife will come and say, Oh, well, this is going on and that&#39;s going on. And then, you know, they cheated. And so when they cheated, and they&#39;re talking about this, like, and we&#39;re like, okay, we&#39;re ready to help, we&#39;re ready to jump in and counsel. But then I found out that it was five years ago, 10 years ago, but they&#39;re telling it as if it happened last week.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>8:27</time>
      <p>
          So they&#39;re still bleeding.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>8:29</time>
      <p>
          Yes.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>8:30</time>
      <p>
          There has been no scabbing, there has been no scar because the blood is fresh.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>8:35</time>
      <p>
          Yes.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>8:35</time>
      <p>
          There has to come a place. You&#39;ve been bleeding for years. You&#39;ve been bleeding for years. I don&#39;t know. Let&#39;s just talk to that for a minute. It&#39;s like, I think that there&#39;s somebody who&#39;s probably listening or watching, like, yeah, I&#39;ve been bleeding for years because the pain has been there for years. Yeah. I I think that, okay, I get that side of it, but your side of keeping all of these accounts is not going to help your situation. Right. You&#39;re going to have to come over and do this. Yeah. I would encourage people just to read 1 Corinthians chapter 13 when it talks about the highest form of love, which is agape. One of the definitions is that it keeps no list of suffered wrongs. You know what I&#39;m saying? It comes to a place. It&#39;s like, you know what they tell quarterbacks is that quarterbacks have to have a short memory. So if you go out and you throw an interception, you can&#39;t think, I&#39;m going to throw an interception, I&#39;m going to throw an interception again because you&#39;re going to throw an interception. You have to have a short memory. You got to feel like, okay, I came out and I threw an interception. This time I&#39;m going to get a touchdown.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>9:34</time>
      <p>
          Yep.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>9:35</time>
      <p>
          But if you&#39;re living a life where you&#39;re thinking about your pain, you&#39;re going to have more pain. And if you think about what the person has done, it&#39;s just going to destroy intimacy. So, I mean, we&#39;re, my name is Ken and I&#39;m your friend. This is Tabitha. She&#39;s your friend. We&#39;re not here to hurt. We&#39;re only here to help. Your list ain&#39;t helping a thing. And so keeping a list means mentally recording mistakes, replaying past failures, storing hurt for future arguments, measuring your spouse by who they used to be, and bringing up unhealed wounds. Now let&#39;s go through that again. Now talk to me.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>10:06</time>
      <p>
          Yeah, yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>10:07</time>
      <p>
          Keeping a list, mentally recording mistakes. Okay. So there&#39;s some homes that are so frigid, it&#39;s almost like everybody&#39;s walking on eggshells around here because I know you are you&#39;re judging me. I can&#39;t even be comfortable in my own house because you&#39;re mentally recording everything I do. Yeah. Replaying past failures. Okay, I messed up. I did something dumb. I lost some money. I left the job I shouldn&#39;t have leave. You&#39;re gonna let me, we&#39;re gonna move on, or we&#39;re gonna have to replay this, storing hurt for future arguments. It&#39;s almost like some spouses, it&#39;s almost like you are a warehouse where you are gathering information to be able to put me on on blast at some point or put me before the jury at some point. It&#39;s almost like a def a prosecution attorney that&#39;s gathering the evidence for the gavel to come down on me. Measuring your spouse by who they used to be. That&#39;s the worst, especially as you&#39;re growing and you&#39;ve changed and evolved and bringing up unhealed, bringing up um uh unhealed wounds. And so talk to me.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>11:10</time>
      <p>
          So good.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>11:10</time>
      <p>
          Oh, there&#39;s so much in what you said. Um, the warehouse gives me a great big picture. That was really powerful.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>11:17</time>
      <p>
          Okay.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>11:18</time>
      <p>
          Because you want to, I know as a wife, if I have a warehouse, right, of goods or just items, I want to open up that door and I want for Almighty God to be able to go into that room and feel good.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>11:37</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>11:38</time>
      <p>
          Oh, she has honor stored up in here for her husband. She has respect stored up for her husband. She has love and joy and peace. She&#39;s stored up all of these things for her family. And I would just hate for anyone to go into my warehouse of any sort and see hate, anger, unforgiveness, you know, bitterness, rage, just childishness. We don&#39;t want that. That&#39;s a very powerful picture. And I think some of us can just turn from keeping that list right there. Keeping a list is what&#39;s in your warehouse.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>12:13</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>12:14</time>
      <p>
          Do you have good things stored up in your warehouse? Now, as a wife, I want to have goods and, you know, like fine linens and jewels, and you know, I want the good stuff stored up in our warehouse.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>12:25</time>
      <p>
          Well, here&#39;s some some real talk. Keeping a list, it doesn&#39;t make you safer. It makes you bitter. And most people don&#39;t even realize that they&#39;re doing it. They say, I forgive you, but they never release you.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>12:36</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>12:36</time>
      <p>
          They say, I forgive you, but they never release you. They just put it in a mental foul. And the problem is love can&#39;t grow where offense is documented. And so, what does the scripture say? Um, I got this one here in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. And this is this is what I want you guys to really look at. Um, it&#39;s the chapter about love, and look at it in different translations, but I&#39;m going to read out of this, let&#39;s look at verse 4. 1 Corinthians 13 and 4. Love is patient, love is kind, love doesn&#39;t envy, it doesn&#39;t boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it&#39;s not self-seeking, it&#39;s not easily angered, and it keeps no records of wrongs. It keeps no records.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>13:19</time>
      <p>
          No records of wrongs.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>13:21</time>
      <p>
          To really walk in the agape God kind of love, you got to be crazy. You got to lose your mind and get the mind of Christ.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>13:29</time>
      <p>
          What does that mean?
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>13:31</time>
      <p>
          I don&#39;t keep any records of wrong. I&#39;ve been wronged by a whole lot of people in my life, but there&#39;s a place in love where I don&#39;t have a foul cabinet.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>13:39</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>13:40</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;ve literally let that go. And it&#39;s not that I&#39;m unwise. It&#39;s not that I&#39;m gonna trust you, like you said. You stole from me before. I&#39;m not giving you my bank account yet.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>13:47</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>13:48</time>
      <p>
          Because love and trust is two different things. I might not trust you, but I&#39;m gonna love you. So I&#39;m not keeping the record of that, meaning that I&#39;m gonna give everybody a clean slate. And it&#39;s up to you to determine what you do with the clean slate that I give you.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>14:02</time>
      <p>
          So good. You know, I just remember what I was gonna say. It might go back a second or two, but um, I remember we often do this with our kids. And I remember the first time we did this, you and I were kind of shocked and we giggled. We were sitting around the table and we&#39;re like, okay, um, and we were praying over our food or whatever, but then we went into like just another level of prayer. And we go, we tell one kid, hey, pray about, you know, pray for your sister, pray for your brother, and they didn&#39;t have anything to say. And then we noticed and we&#39;re like, okay, say something nice about your sister or your brother, you know, and give them a compliment. They didn&#39;t have anything to say. Right, right, right. And we had to teach them, you know, okay, well, how about their outfit? Does their outfit look nice? What about their hair? Okay, what about, you know, they they swept the floor
      </p>

      <h2 id="chapter_39333424">Fault Finding And Confirmation Bias</h2>


        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>14:45</time>
      <p>
          the other day? That was good, right? You know, and we had to teach them what to do. And I feel like, you know, with spouses, sometimes we&#39;re like kids. Our kids will build up a case. Oh, they did this and they did that, and they didn&#39;t do this and they didn&#39;t do that, and they were supposed to, and then I had to do all this. And we&#39;re acting like a bunch of teenagers.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>15:04</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s true.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>15:05</time>
      <p>
          And we should be mature grown adults, right? And so let&#39;s stop doing that. And let&#39;s here&#39;s an acid test, right? Are you keeping a warehouse of offenses for your spouse, or are you keeping a warehouse of precious jewels for your spouse, right? Begin to pray for them. What do you pray? Are you praying?
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>15:28</time>
      <p>
          I think you&#39;re talking about what you internalize about your spouse. Yeah. Do you internalize that this is a like let&#39;s take it from my instance, that she&#39;s a virtuous woman of God, fearfully and wonderfully made of God, that the wisdom of God is on the inside of you, that you&#39;re beautiful in and beautiful out. And even as you age, you age with beauty. Yes. Like fine wine, and you are intelligent, you are gifted by God. And we&#39;re different, but I like the difference. You are uniquely wired by God for a time like this. Or is your eternal and internal talk, internal, I-N-T, internal talk more like, man, she&#39;s just forgetful and she&#39;s just never on time, and she just she doesn&#39;t keep a word, and man, she&#39;s always God help her be on time.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>16:13</time>
      <p>
          God help her change, God help her.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>16:15</time>
      <p>
          Well, that&#39;s the thing. I mean, I was just listening to the Dr. Ayman. He was on a podcast, he&#39;s a uh very popular, world-renowned neurologist, and he was talking about the detriments of negativity to the benefits of positivity. Not like, oh, pie in the sky positivity, but like for real, get up every day and say, something good&#39;s gonna happen for me today. He says he studied thousands of brains, and the people who have negative perspectives, negative bend, it hurts their brain and it hurts their perspective of life, what they get out of life. And I just feel like sometimes we marry a negative Nancy. It&#39;s like you just gotta stop seeing all the bad and start to focus on the good.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>17:00</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>17:00</time>
      <p>
          Simple but profound.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>17:02</time>
      <p>
          Yeah. And so Oh, those are the principles we teach our kids.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>17:07</time>
      <p>
          Yeah. A lot of this has to do with forgiveness, though. You know what I&#39;m saying? I think a lot of marriage stuff, I think if we just became forgiveness experts, a lot of the problems in marriage will go away. And I think that unfortunately, people harbor offenses. They kind of like hold on to what you did, what you said. They do it way too much. But Jesus wouldn&#39;t wouldn&#39;t do that. So the whole thing is to develop this Christ-likeness because it will it will affect the marriage, you know. Wow. And so here&#39;s the truth you can&#39;t build a future while dragging the past behind you. And when you keep a list, you stop seeing your spouse as your partner and you start seeing them as your offender. And that it it changes everything. And so here&#39;s some signs you&#39;re keeping a list. You bring up old stuff often, you assume they failed again. You struggle to trust progress. You measure effort instead of appreciating it. You weaponize the past, you feel superior in arguments, you withhold affection, you use silence as a punishment, you feel justified staying angry, and you don&#39;t believe that change is ever real.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:18</time>
      <p>
          Yeah, those are all things that have to do with you and not the other person that you&#39;re keeping a list of on.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:24</time>
      <p>
          Do you feel like there&#39;s a correlation between keeping a list and fault finding?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:28</time>
      <p>
          Yes.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:28</time>
      <p>
          Yeah, in which way?
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:30</time>
      <p>
          Um it it seem it almost seems like the same thing. You know, you&#39;re keeping a list is saying, aha, that&#39;s another one I&#39;ll write down. Aha, that&#39;s another one I&#39;ll tuck away. Uh, you know, I knew it. Your list is proof that they are what you suspect.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>18:49</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m sorry. I&#39;m just going back over to the staff world. But I think you develop a confirmation bias kind of thing. It&#39;s almost like if that&#39;s what you&#39;re looking for, you&#39;re gonna find it, but it doesn&#39;t make it make it real.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>19:00</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>19:01</time>
      <p>
          So in the workplace, if that&#39;s what you&#39;re looking for, you got your list, you&#39;re gonna find it, but it doesn&#39;t make it real. It&#39;s real to you, but it&#39;s not really the reality. Those are dangerous people to employ, those dangerous people to do marriage with. So you got this long list, and it&#39;s almost like, yeah, you&#39;re looking for that.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>19:18</time>
      <p>
          Yeah. It&#39;s all um, they I I hear like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It&#39;s it&#39;s a it&#39;s the person&#39;s perspective. And so a situation can happen. You know, maybe I run into somebody who&#39;s rude to me, and I could have the perspective of, whoa, they are a terrible person. I cannot believe they go to church too, and and they do all this stuff and they were rude to me, and I cannot believe. And that could make them the worst person I could get on social media and blast them. Or I can have the perspective like, oh my gosh, they were so rude. Let me pray for them because I know they go to church. I know that they give and I just see I know their family and they serve. They must be having a bad day. What is going on? Maybe I should just talk to them personally and see how if I can assist or help anything in their life. Those are two completely different perspectives. It it matters on the person who&#39;s I&#39;m positive. I&#39;m going to think the best, not because I&#39;m like some wonderful person, but because I&#39;m striving to do what the Bible tells me to do, to think the best in every situation, to think the best of every person, right? To consider the other person.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>20:28</time>
      <p>
          Yeah, it&#39;s so good. You know, one scripture that comes to mind, and this is like a life scripture for me. I don&#39;t hear a lot of people talk about this script.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>20:36</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>20:36</time>
      <p>
          And I see that in my life. Like you could take advantage of me and lie to me because I just don&#39;t think you&#39;re a liar. Because I&#39;m pure. I just feel like everybody else is pure. So I&#39;m easily deceived and kind of gullible, to be honest with you. That&#39;s why I need people around me to say, hey, Pastor, don&#39;t, don&#39;t, don&#39;t trust so-and-so, because I think everybody&#39;s like me. But here&#39;s the opposite to the unpure, everything is unpure. This is for the people who can, it&#39;s almost like you&#39;re keeping a uh this list, and really the deficit is you. So because you have deficit, you project that on everybody else, and you think that people are this way because you&#39;re really that way. Let me explain it like this. I was talking to a friend of mine, we&#39;ve been in ministry for decades. And um, whenever we see someone who comes out and they come out really legalistic and they come out strong about, you know, whatever it is, let&#39;s just call it someone fell into the infidelity in their relationship, and somebody just blast that person. And then later on they fall into the same. But we found out that the reason they was blasting that person is because they had that going on in their heart themselves. It&#39;s just it&#39;s a weird dichotomy. That&#39;s so good that that unpure people are projecting their weaknesses on. That&#39;s like how some people could. Take another pastor&#39;s message or somebody and break it down. And people are getting saved and baptized, but they go in and look for something that they want to call false and wrong. And it&#39;s really the thing that&#39;s false and wrong is them. And so they&#39;re looking for that. It&#39;s like you&#39;re going to get what you&#39;re looking for, but that don&#39;t mean that it&#39;s real.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>22:17</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>22:18</time>
      <p>
          Because to the unpure, everything&#39;s unpure.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>22:22</time>
      <p>
          Well, it&#39;s pointing the finger. You always have to be careful to point the finger. Stop pointing the finger. Right. I try not to point the finger. Right. It&#39;s very like Adam and Eve. It starts there. Hey, why is this? Oh, me, my personality, I&#39;m looking to blame somebody who did this, who is responsible. I just lost six green plates today and I could not find my green plates. And I&#39;m like, the kids had to do it. I know somebody did something with it. Where do green plates go? I mean, they just sit right here. I put the green plates in the corner and I found them. But I knew not to go off and be completely angry. I kept looking everywhere because I know me by now. And I know I like to point the finger, but nobody else cares about my green plates. But me anyway. So anyway, I try not to do that. It&#39;s so easy to do. But the Bible says this, and I think Jesus said this. This is a Jesus quote that why do you point to the splinter in your brother&#39;s eye when you have a log in your own?
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:18</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:19</time>
      <p>
          What you describe, that&#39;s what that is.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:21</time>
      <p>
          People who have logs, they don&#39;t know they have logs. So they&#39;re splinter locators, I guess. They think they&#39;re calling it. They got their finger out.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:29</time>
      <p>
          They got their finger out and they&#39;re pointing and accusing.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:32</time>
      <p>
          And accusing and keeping the list. And they&#39;re not going to be able to do that.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:34</time>
      <p>
          The thing is, the finger should be this way. Don&#39;t worry about it. You don&#39;t, you&#39;re not responsible for everybody else. You&#39;re responsible for this. Judge this right here. Judge this.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:47</time>
      <p>
          Well, anyway, let&#39;s I want to bring it back
      </p>

      <h2 id="chapter_39333425">How To Drop The List</h2>


        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>23:50</time>
      <p>
          over into the marriage context. And so, how do you drop the list? Um, here&#39;s a few ideas. Decide to forgive fully, not partially, not mentally, but forgive fully. If you&#39;re a person who keeps a list and you&#39;re ready to drop the list, here&#39;s another one. Stop rehearsing the offense. What you replay, you relive. Okay, stop rehearsing it. Don&#39;t go over and over it again. You know that, you know, you know how to meditate, you&#39;re just doing it backwards. Uh replace accusation with communication. Uh talk, don&#39;t foul. Okay, stop accusing. Come against that spirit of accusation. Start talking. Separate patterns from moments. Don&#39;t punish growth because of a past behavior. You know. Uh here&#39;s another one. Give credit for change. Notice progress, even small steps, and let them have it. Celebrate small steps.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>24:45</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>24:45</time>
      <p>
          Ask God to heal the original wound. The list exists because the wound never healed. And so ask God, heal me of the original wound.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>24:53</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>24:54</time>
      <p>
          Stop using the past as a weapon. Weapons destroy intimacy, y&#39;all. It destroys closeness and love like Jesus loves. Jesus doesn&#39;t keep replaying your past. Thank God for that.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>25:07</time>
      <p>
          Right.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>25:08</time>
      <p>
          Thank God that you have a past. I have a past, but he doesn&#39;t keep replaying it over and over so I can get stuck in it.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>25:15</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m I thank God that you don&#39;t replay yesterday back to me. I don&#39;t know. I&#39;m not even thinking about yesterday. I don&#39;t even know, but I&#39;m sure I did something yesterday to bother you. You know what I mean? Like, I don&#39;t know, because we&#39;re not perfect. Like, I&#39;m so glad that you&#39;re not going into like two weeks ago and be like, remember two weeks ago when you did it? Like, oh my gosh, that would be so hard to live.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>25:37</time>
      <p>
          And like well, it&#39;s kind of like stop making small things, big deals. And I feel like sometimes, like, you know, we were recording a podcast and I was kind of frustrated saying something, wanting to move on. I will not think about it again. You won&#39;t think about it again. There are some people that will take that and they will go to bed with that anger. They&#39;re not touch each other, and one day goes to two days, three days. Stop sweating the small stuff.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:01</time>
      <p>
          Yeah.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:01</time>
      <p>
          Somebody had a little attitude. All right, okay, move on.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:05</time>
      <p>
          And if it bothers you, talk about it. Yeah, apologize quickly.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:10</time>
      <p>
          Apologize quickly. Move on. Pivot. Make changes. We have the power of God backing us up, and you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.
      </p>

        <cite>SPEAKER_02</cite>
      <time>26:18</time>
      <p>
          Amen.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:19</time>
      <p>
          I wish I had a piece of paper on me. I would take it out symbolically so you could tear up your list.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:23</time>
      <p>
          Come on.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:24</time>
      <p>
          Okay. I want you to grab a piece of paper. Somebody needs to do that.
      </p>

        <cite>Tabatha Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:28</time>
      <p>
          Yep.
      </p>

        <cite>Ken Claytor</cite>
      <time>26:28</time>
      <p>
          All right. I want you to take the list. I want you to ball it up. And I want you to throw it out. And I want you to give your spouse a clean slate. It&#39;s a season of new beginnings for you. All right. And I want you to love like Jesus would love. We&#39;re out of time for the day. We hope you enjoyed today&#39;s podcast. If you&#39;re watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button or the alert icon. We want you to be a part of our family. Our vision is to help a million married couples. If this podcast has been a blessing to you, don&#39;t keep it to yourself. Give us a five-star review, send us an email, share your testimony, your story with us. It really motivates us to continue to go on. If you need prayer for something or if you have questions, send those in as well. We would love, and I mean love to hear from you. We would love for you to come and worship with us. If you&#39;re ever in Florida, we actually have a conference called a life conference. It&#39;s an encounter conference. People come from around the world. It&#39;s three days with God. I can&#39;t put into words what happens when you take off work and you pay for a trip and you come into this moment, but tickets are going fast. I would love to see you here. You can go to our website. We got a lot of boot camps, masterclasses, and books for you as well. Invest in your marriage. If you get better, the marriage will get better. We&#39;ll see you next Thursday. Peace.
      </p>