Refusing To Stay Disconnected

Ken Claytor

Here's the question for you. What part do you play?

Tabatha Claytor

We've been in a broken marriage before, and like you said, and it didn't feel good. We felt disconnected. And offense can be one of those things. It's like offense starts with one brick. And when you don't deal with it, another brick is coming.

Ken Claytor

The first two years of our marriage, I actually had a plan to divorce her. And so I'm not proud of it, but I thought that this just wasn't the one. I thought that I got married too young. But this is what we know that when you get better, the marriage will get better.

Tabatha Claytor

And there's always more. There's always better. And marriage is something that God created, and He created it for us to enjoy, to have fun.

Ken Claytor

Communication is not you talking, though. Communication is you listening and trying to understand. Best marriage advice that I could ever give you is love God more than you love your spouse. Because if you love God more than you love your spouse, then God will help you love your spouse appropriately. I refuse to have a bad marriage. We've been there before, it's no fun.

Tabatha Claytor

Any marriage can be turned around. I believe that with God, any marriage can be turned around.

Ken Claytor

There's nothing too hard for me.

Tabatha Claytor

When we submit to one another, it's because we are the two have become one. We we're doing this life together.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, and so we honor each other, we respect one another, we love one another the same way we do every other human being.

Ken Claytor

And strong people marry other strong people. And many times in relationships, you think that there's something wrong. No, you just gotta figure out how to submit and to one another, love one another, but you're not gonna change one another. We married strong people.

Tabatha Claytor

If you are a difficult person to get along with, okay.

Ken Claytor

You don't know it.

Tabatha Claytor

You don't know it, and you it is, it's everyone else.

Ken Claytor

Uh I mean, I do care about where she's in the house. Maybe not to your level, but I do care. I think it's a great idea.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. Oh, wow.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, I think it's a good idea.

Why Simple Talks Turn Into Fights

Ken Claytor

Hey, hey, hey, what's up, everybody? Hey, everyone. Welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. We're excited for another episode today, and we pray that we can bring you guys some real value. You know, we started this podcast with a couple of goals in mind. And the number one goal is really to help people grow closer to God and also closer to the people that God has placed in your life. So, this is first and foremost a marriage and relationship podcast, but not just that, it's a personal growth podcast because we believe that when you get better, the marriage will also get better. And so, welcome if you're new to our podcast on YouTube, hit subscribe or hit the alert icon so that you can be the first to get the content when they are released. Now, today's episode is for anybody who feels like, why do I keep clashing with people? Why does it feel like I always have tension in relationships? Why do simple conversations turn into conflict? Why does it feel like people misunderstand me? And why do I feel, why do I keep bumping heads with my spouse, my coworkers, my family, or my leaders? Are y'all ready for today? Today's episode is called How to Stop Bumping Heads with Others. Why do you think this is important, sweetheart?

Tabatha Claytor

It's so important that we're talking about this because I think if you, if, if that person that you just just described, you feel like everybody, you know, nobody understands me. I just kind of seem like, you know, I'm misunderstood all the time. You probably you need to know this about yourself. You need to locate yourself. You're not don't get defensive, just receive, you know, what it is that we're about to share. We all have a level of, you know, locating ourselves in order to like just to be able to get along with other people. Because no one's the same. We're all different.

Ken Claytor

Why why do you start off by saying that?

Tabatha Claytor

I I think because it's easy to be like, oh, well, I don't, you know. If you are a difficult person to get along with, okay.

Ken Claytor

You don't know it.

Tabatha Claytor

You don't know it. And you it is, it's everyone else. It's well, that job, they did this, and when I worked for this company, they did that. And then when I was with this group, they did that. And when I went to that church, they were like that.

Ken Claytor

You didn't understand me.

Tabatha Claytor

And everyone else, yeah. And you will continue like that throughout life if we don't do something about ourselves.

Ken Claytor

My name is Ken. This is Tabitha. We're your friends. And we love just bringing truth because truth sets us free.

Locate Yourself And Own Your Part

Ken Claytor

One of the greatest things that you can do is just be self-aware enough to try to locate yourself. The law of destiny starts with location. And that's what chronic bumper headers do is that they bump heads with other people, but then they always blame other people. Yeah. And I'm not saying that the other people don't have a part that they can play. We always know there's two sides to this coin. But if you're a person that just seems like you're bumping heads after bumping heads after bumping heads, here's the question for you What part do you play?

Tabatha Claytor

That's so good.

Ken Claytor

You gotta know your part and you gotta own your part because there's things that we can all grow in.

Tabatha Claytor

And so But I I would say today it's not only for those people who chronically bump heads, it's for all of us. Because we're all going to bump heads at one point. Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You know? So we bump heads with each other.

Tabatha Claytor

We bump heads with each other.

Ken Claytor

A lot or a little bit. What would you think?

Tabatha Claytor

I think we do a lot, honestly. I think we do a lot, but it's how you handle it.

Ken Claytor

Why do you think that? Why do you think we bump heads a lot?

Tabatha Claytor

Because you are a strong A-type personality. I'm a strong A-type personality. That's it.

Ken Claytor

We're gonna bump heads. Period. We're gonna bump heads. That's why I like you.

Tabatha Claytor

I for the same reason I bump heads with you is the same reason I love you. Right.

Ken Claytor

And strong people marry other strong people. And many times in relationships, you think that there's something wrong. No, you just gotta figure out how to submit and to one another, love one another. But you're not gonna change one another. We married strong people. And so we are going to bump heads because we always have an opinion, we always have a direction, we always have a word from God. But the fruit of the spirit that we've developed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And I think that that might be my greatest challenge for chronic for people who bump heads a lot. It's just that they have not developed something spiritually yet.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

So even though we're strong and we're opinionated and we like excellence, we're still humble, tender, broken, surrendered. So even though we bump heads, we don't stay there. Yeah. Because normally I just do what you tell me to do. No, I'm just like.

Tabatha Claytor

No, I do what you tell me to do.

Ken Claytor

And right there is where health is found. Right. Because at the end of the day, I'm like, okay, let me just do that and save the drama. And you're like, yeah, let me just do and follow my husband who's a godly leader. And so, yeah, there does come a place where somebody has to bow the knee. And people who don't know how to bow the knee, you know, is bump heads. There's just so many situations running through my head because people bump heads in the workplace, they bump heads in ministry, they bump heads in marriage, they bump heads in families. And there's just, I think I would call it contention.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And contention doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel harmonious. It doesn't feel peaceful. And I think the reason that I was inspired to bring this up is because I think that there's like a lot of good people that are truly called by God, but they are not able to be really used because they just don't know how to not bump heads.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

Um, so we can talk about it. Let's talk about it in categories.

Marriage And Mutual Submission

Ken Claytor

Let's start with the marriage category. Okay. Okay. So let's say that I'm in a relationship and the husband and wife is always bumping heads. Why do you think that is and what can we do about it?

Tabatha Claytor

I think that um probably the first thing is the husband and the wife, they don't know how to submit to one another.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Just, you know, they don't have the the Bible tells us to submit one to another. So I think what that looks like in real life is let's say you're upset about something and you know, maybe I'm doing something that you don't like I'm doing. And I think like, well, there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing. What do you mean? I've been doing this my whole life. You know, like why why would you say that to me? But because it bothers you and you feel some kind of way about it, and I don't even care about it, I will submit. Like, okay, I don't really care about this, but it seems to be a big deal to you. So yeah, what do you want me to do? It okay, if I do it like this, will that be okay? Okay, well, I'm gonna try to my best to do that. You have free, you know, you're free to come back to me if you feel like, you know, you're still you still feel a certain way about this. That's what submitting to one another looks like. And you do the same thing for me. There's some things that I don't like. I don't like you to wear shoes in the house. You don't care about wearing shoes in the house. But you're like, okay, I'll, you know, I'll wear I I'll take my shoes off in the house.

Ken Claytor

I uh I mean, I do care about wearing shoes in the house. Maybe not to your level, but I do care. I think it's a great idea. Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

Oh, wow.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, I think it's a good idea. I wouldn't want to track a bunch of dirt in here.

Tabatha Claytor

Uh-huh.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, no. Um, can you help me close a gap with um so you said we are to submit one to another, uh-huh, but the Bible says that the wife should be subject to her husband and everything. So I think a lot of people they get into tension because the man is trying to lead and he's saying, submit to me, because that's scripture, and then you're highlighting the mutual submission, which is also a part of that scripture. Like, which is it?

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I I think there's a difference. It's both and. Okay, so when we submit to one another, it's because we are the two have become one. We we're doing this life together.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, and so we honor each other, we respect one another, we love one another the same way we do every other human being. Like we we respect people because they're human. Even if they don't have the same religion as us, we pray for them, we go to work, we respect our leadership and bosses. We know how to go to the courtroom and you know, respect the judge. Like that, there's a mutual submission there. But then also there is that leadership, the God, um, the godly office, I think, that the husband and the wife, you know, the God, if if I can call it that, that the husband is in. And that's where you will stand before Jesus and give an account for how you led your family. Me, our children. Um, and so that's an authority that God has given you. I do submit to that God-given authority. I don't submit to you because I trust you and I think you're the most perfect person in the world. I submit to you because I trust God and His order, and I believe that God will keep me and honor me as I honor His order.

Ken Claytor

Let's flush that out like practically, though. So I think, and tell me if I'm wrong, I think what that means is that the in the husband and wife relationship, we we we have mutual submission, mutual respect, mutual love, mutual honor, yes, mutual, mutual admiration. Um, however, in the order of God, at the end of the day, the husband's gonna be the head coach, so to say. The wife is gonna be the assistant coach. He's gonna be the president, the wife is gonna be the vice president. It doesn't have to do with value, worth, intelligence, anointing, calling. It just has to do with who's the responsible one.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, sir.

Ken Claytor

I think a lot of men hear the wife should be subject and everything as they're on top and the wife is beneath. But I think that Jesus exemplifies servant leadership. And to me, the higher you go in leadership, the more you need to wash feet, absolutely, and the more you need to um cover your wife. And so to me, me being the head or the head coach is a um leadership responsibility, meaning that I'm the one who carries the weight, I'm the one who feels the warfare, I'm the one who takes the pressure and the persecution. So as a head coach, I want to hear what what you're saying. Yeah. I want to hear your advice, your opinion, and wisdom. But at the end of the day, I have to make a decision. And my hope is to get us on the same page. Like out of 27 years in marriage, I don't think we've made, I can't think of a decision that I've had to make that we wasn't on the same page.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

Because we honor and we're mutually submitted. Now, if it comes to the place where we're I think this and you think that, at the end of the day, I have to make that decision.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

And when I make that decision, and you have to submit to it because the order of God and go along with it. And I just feel like when we start with mutual submission, but then we get over there to where, okay, this is I I have to make a leadership decision. I think it's just important to kind of pan out practically how that works and how that looks, at least in our home. That's how it works. And I'm telling you, we don't have to, we don't bump heads when it comes to major decisions.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

In 27 years, because of the the tone of that.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

The tone, like, yes, I am the man.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

I am the leader, I am the head coach, but I'm not flaunting it like, do what I say, right? Right. There's don't do anything else other than what I say. No, it's more like what are you saying?

Tabatha Claytor

There's reverence in this position. Because you're you're you're you're you know, your wife, your children, you know, they're depending on you to hear from God and make the right decisions. I think a perfect example of this is where, you know, Jesus says that, or the Bible says that uh a husband should love his wife like Christ loved the church. Well, Christ loved the church so much that he gave his life for it, he laid down his life for it. I I trust God that you're loving me in that capacity and you show that for me where you're protecting my life. You're protecting our children, you cover us. Amen.

Ken Claytor

And I remember when we um I always tell people, no days off for the leader. Man of God, no days off for you.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

It just is what it is. I lead at work, I gotta lead my soul, I gotta lead my family, even on my Sabbath. There's no days off from me still needing to cover my family. There's no days off for the leader. So leadership is responsibility. Responsibility. And when you understand that as a wife, the weight and the warfare that the husband has that you might not even because I'm a covering for you, then your honor for your husband should actually be elevated because you realize that that person is handling and taking care of something more than you. And that's why I always have a respect for the president, no matter who's in office, because they have intel and they have they live in a house where people are trying to blow it up. You know, it's the very fact that you're living in the office and you're taking that responsibility because honestly, I wouldn't want to do it. Right. You know what I'm saying? So when it comes to head coaches, whoever's in that leadership position, they're covering the team. They have a level of, they're the first one to get fired. Everybody puts the blame on them and they don't even dribble the ball. Right. They don't pass, they don't catch a pass. But they're the ones that get the blame because they're at the top of it. And so, anyway, so bumping heads, I don't know if we answered it completely. I don't throw anything else out. Why would a why would a married couple be bumping heads? What can we do to stop it?

Tabatha Claytor

Well, that's what we we started saying, number one, is because we're not submitting to one another and we don't understand submission. So that one's done. Check mark on that one.

Ken Claytor

Humility is huge. Humility. Communication is huge. Communication. Normalizing the fact that we have different opinions, but we can get there if we have communication, humility, brokenness, all of those things right there. Tenderness, you know what I'm saying? Um, understanding the order of God. I kind of want to come back to the other, because I was going to break them down into categories.

Tabatha Claytor

They it it's hard because it it overflows. Yeah. It's the same thing in any situation.

Peace Starts With Listening

Ken Claytor

Let me build a little bit more, let me build a little more foundation. Bumping heads is repeated relational tension caused by pride, misunderstanding, poor communication, offense, immaturity, emotional triggers, control, and lack of empathy. And sometimes people aren't fighting over the real issue, they're reacting from deeper wounds. Um, now, this is important because conflict affects marriages, parenting, teamwork, friendships, church culture, mental health, spiritual growth. And some people sabotage opportunities, promotions, relationship and favor because they just don't know how to work well with people. And so I'm gonna go over a couple of scriptures, then we'll break them back down into categories because I want to talk to everybody who's listening. I kind of want to break down into these categories, especially in the workplace. If you're in a workplace and you're bumping heads with coworkers, bumping heads with your supervisor, we we want to help you. But let me sew this word into your heart first. Romans 12, 18. Tell me what you get. It says, if it's possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. I love that verse because it says, as far as it depends on you, meaning that I cannot control somebody else. But if it depends on me, on my side of the equation, I'm going to um live at peace with everybody.

Tabatha Claytor

That is so good. I think that, you know, in the world we would say, don't burn bridges. You know, like just speak peace over everybody, your neighbors. I think it I can't say that more. That is so well spoken. It's up to you. So there are a lot of people, maybe a lot of people that maybe don't like me or may not be at peace with me, but it's not because of something that I've done.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

I've gone, at least I don't, you know, not that they voice to me and that I know about. So if I've offended you and I know it, I'm coming to you.

Ken Claytor

One of my mentors used to say that your problem with me is not my problem. And so just because a person has a problem with me doesn't mean that I have a problem with you or even that it's my problem.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

So all I can do is as long as it depends on me, my posture is a posture of collaboration, unity, and peace.

Tabatha Claytor

Right. And that's not to ever keep me forever indebted to someone who's upset for me. Like I've spoken to you, I've apologized, I've tried to make peace. You don't want it, okay. I love you, I'll be praying for you. I love you from a distance.

Ken Claytor

I think a lot of people, they have, they might have too much bondage when it comes to relational fallout. And I might be too loose with this, honestly. But I feel like if people got a problem with me and they stop talking to me or they want to, you know, be offended at me, I'm like, okay, cool. We don't have to talk no more. I still love you and I'm still here for you if you need anything, but I'm okay with relationships not being like they used to be. I think sometimes we try to hold things together and try to make it in the name of love. And to me, love, sometimes I can love you from a distance. I can forgive you, but that doesn't mean that we need to be around each other's table all the time and trying to force this. That's just a side note. I don't know. Maybe it's me. Y'all pray for your boy. But James 119 says, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. So most conflict would shrink if we listened more, we reacted slower, and we stopped trying to win every conversation.

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's easy to get caught up in the situation. So if someone comes to you, say in the workplace, and they disagree with you and they're, you know, just kind of a little heated and you feel that, the worst thing for you to do is take offense and to to not be slow to listen. You know, just you just heard what they said, and now what was on them jumped on you, and now you're going back and forth. That doesn't solve anything.

Ken Claytor

I'm usually do how do you think I do with that?

Tabatha Claytor

I think you're I actually you are you are so good at that. I've been in so many meetings with you. It's funny now. Because just recently you were not so good at that.

Ken Claytor

That's what I was asking. I was so out of character. People, that person pulled me out of character. I was um I let them too.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, you actually you handled it, you escalated, and then you you came back and you said, Hey, I'm gonna excuse myself from the situation. You you excused yourself from the meeting, you said, we'll talk again later. And so you handled it well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

You are human, so but usually you do this so well. Because in my mind, I'd be like, I wouldn't have said that. I can't believe he said that very I'm taking notes when I watch you handle these situations, but hey, yeah, I've I've really worked on that over the years.

Ken Claytor

I mean, really work. It doesn't come naturally. I'm I'm naturally a slap the taste out of your mouth kind of person. I'm naturally a like, like, okay, whatever. Get out of my face. You're right. So over the years, I've worked with difficult people and difficult conversations with kindness. I'm not a nice, I'm not the nicest person, but I'm kind.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And I'm compassionate and I'm very empathetic, and I try to put myself in another person's shoes. And I realize that the tone, like people don't care how much you know, they care how much you care, like what you make them feel like. So whenever I go into conversations, I cannot agree with you at all and be like, I can't believe I'm coming in this conversation again. But when we get in there, you wouldn't know that because I'm slow and I'm I'm humble and I'm hearing and I'm listening. But you're right. And the reason I brought that up is because we just had a situation where he was in a meeting, and you could tell my tone was going like this.

Tabatha Claytor

I was getting nervous.

Ken Claytor

I was like, I said I was uh, you know, nothing like nothing that is nothing ungodly. Nothing ungodly or anything like that, but to to where it's like related. No, no, no, no, hold on, hold on. Like that. Yeah, like no, no, no, no, no, you're not listening. Okay, I'm I'm leaving out of the meeting, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And it's kind of like you go home after that and you're like, man, dog on it. They they allowed them to pull me out of my character and out of my kindness. And then you gotta go back and apologize. And I did. I went, hey, I apologize for my tone. I apologize for that. That's not the way that I lead, that's not the way that I want to be. Right. I want to be slow to speak, and I want to be slow to be angry. So when you say because I felt it rising, that's when I stopped it. Because I had another conversation and I felt it rising again. Yeah. Because the it's just kind of challenging me, coming back, and I felt it rising again. I said, okay, no, no, no, slow, slow, slow, slow it down.

Tabatha Claytor

So now what would you do? I want to I want to ask you a question because some people they're in work situations and they they they it just keeps rising and rising and rising day after day after day. What do you do to solve those situations? Um, some some people are in, you know, with family members and things like that. I mean, can you just walk away and never have a conversation again? You know, some people like you know, how do we solve this?

Ken Claytor

Well, I think that communication is gonna be key. Communication is not you talking, though. Communication is you listening and try to understand. And then the art of communication is probing questions. Why do you feel like that? Why did you take it that way? Why did you say it? So I'm still I'm still fishing for understanding.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Then I'm gonna ask permission. Well, can I tell you my side of the story? When I when I talk, I try not to be pointed and say, Well, you said this. Um, I feel this. When you said that, it made me feel this way. Can you see that at all? So I'm so the way that I'm toning and the way that I'm asking questions is actually bringing all contention down because I want to understand. But I'm trying to, I know you want to, you don't have my skills, so I know that you want to not bait me, but you want to bring me to just see your side. So I'm asking questions to help you see my side after I've heard you.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, people want to be heard. They want to be heard. They want to, and that's why there's they're frustrated because they're trying to voice something, and most people have no idea how to articulate how they really feel.

Ken Claytor

Right. So people are bumping heads because a lot of times in the workplace, someone has an idea and they think this is the way that it should be done. And the other people don't see it like this, and either you're not hearing my idea and they feel like it's costing them something. So this would be better for the organization, this would be better for the church, this would be better for my position. And I'm trying to do say this, and then the other leaders taking it like, well, I've been doing it this way for a long time. I've already tried it your way, and you keep coming at me, and they're not even hearing the idea any longer. They're just hearing the tone, they're not hearing the idea any longer because uh, and then in the workplace, uh, sometimes other people can come and get involved and they say other things. So now you're making a judgment on the person that you're talking to based upon somebody else that said something that only knew half of it. So you're actually already coming into the meeting fully loaded, and then what we do is we demonize people, and so then we start using spiritual words like, well, that person just has too many insecurities. That person just is walking in the spirit of division. So now we're just judging people. Now that person is walking in the spirit of division. So you actually come into the meeting thinking that about that because you already have a case built up because of the conversations you had before, and you had this conversation from this person who don't know nothing, and this conversation from this person who don't know. So you come in with all of this baggage and you're already making a judgment. Of course, you're gonna bump heads. Yeah, that's all in maturity. All of that is in maturity, all of that is why you got fired, all of that is why you get let go, all of that is why you can be a super gifted person but can't keep a job. You're a super talented person, but can't get along with people because you just don't know how to deal with contention and not bumping heads. What sticks out to you from all over?

Tabatha Claytor

I mean, it it's just it there's so much. It's layer upon layer upon layer. I think uh I just want to go back to this conversation that we're having. It's back to self-awareness and locating yourself. No one is immune to offense, no one is immune to um having to have hard conversations and you know, just stepping on people's toes. We all do it, we all make mistakes. We all have we all are both the victim and the one who, you know, is causing the pain.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, so what I love that you said in this conversation is that, okay, well, you did this, you escalated, but then you had to go back and then you had to apologize, apologize. But then you don't leave it there. You ask probing questions, you find out, well, I feel like this. How do you feel? Well, when you said that, it made me feel like this. You, you know, they're all of these very mature fruit of the spirit, love, patience, kindness. Um, there's a a layered effect here. And it starts with just being aware and not thinking that like you are immune to stepping on other people's toes or bumping heads with other people. Sometimes it's you. I think most of the times it's just you. It's you.

Ken Claytor

It is, it is. Yeah, I mean, I I see this all over the place, and that's why this is the kind of topic that if I was listening to this, I would I would bring my staff together and listen to this podcast and then have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

I would bring my my spouse together, listen to this, then have a conversation. I would bring my coworkers together, my team together, listen to this, and then have a conversation. Um, Kobe and Shaq um when they bumped heads. Two great players, but they only won three championships when they could have won four, five, or six because of a bumping heads. This is a real issue. Um, even our kids, you know, um they they they they're doing a club at school together. And many times they come home and they're like, who got the music? Who got the sign? Who, who, who, who, who's leading worship, who's doing this, who's doing it's like, okay, y'all gotta stop bumping heads. And I I had to pull one of them to the side the other day. I said, um, don't stop the move of God. Don't stop the move of God because you don't want to work together with your sister or want to work together with your brother, and you guys are just fighting about who who signed in and who who's gonna be do pass out the flyers. Right. You are starting a Christian club, but you're just and this is how denominations are formed. This is how churches split. Yeah, it's because I got a better idea. Yeah. And my idea, but there's so much pride. And so the truth is that many conflicts are not really about the issue, they're about ego, misunderstanding, they're about insecurity, feeling unheard, needing control, unresolved hurt. And mature people learn that not every disagreement needs a war. Yeah. So that's all I go into. I go into these are great people. I go in, like these are good people, these are not evil people, this doesn't deserve a war. Now, as a supervisor or as a boss, there does come a place where if I can't see eye to eye, I have to be kind but also clear. Hey, we're not gonna see eye to eye on this because you don't see what I see. I love you, but we need to part ways.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Ken Claytor

I love you, I really do, but we this is not healthy. And I think that's okay as well.

Tabatha Claytor

Absolutely.

Ken Claytor

I think it's okay that some friendships, I love you, we're not going the same direction any longer. I'm here for you, I'm praying for you, but it's okay that we we we we part ways, even if you don't say that. You know what I'm saying? It's okay. Um, and so all of those things are like so back to our categories.

Workplace Conflict And Clear Alignment

Ken Claytor

So the workplace category of bumping heads is typically that differences of opinions, sometimes it's organizational confusion, improper alignment, like I just don't know what to do. My job description is unclear. I have changing supervisors, I have too much work, not enough time to do it. Um I just had a conversation recently with someone, and I said, um, it would it's almost like the person who's the leadership is a great person. I know them personally. They they love God and they they love people. The person who is um they're a leader, but they're under another leader, great person. Love God, love me, love, love, you know, love the church, love all of that. But these two people are just bumping heads, bumping heads, bumping heads, bumping heads. Now, what what they don't know is that at some point we can't allow that contention that causes division that is Satan's playground to continue. All right. If you ask one of them, well, you know, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. I've tried, I've tried, I've tried, I've talked, I've talked, I've talked, I'm walking on eggshells, I'm walking on eggshells. You ask this person, they're like, This person, I don't know if they're even for me. I I think they're talking to other people about me. So they're causing all of this dissension.

unknown

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

So as a senior leader, what do I have to do? Well, we're gonna try to resolve it, but if we don't resolve it, somebody has to go. And that's where pain hits. We can't allow contention. These six things, the Lord hates, the sevenness is an abomination, he who sows discord amongst the brethren.

Tabatha Claytor

Wow.

Ken Claytor

At some point, and watch this younger leaders, they probably are not gonna let the senior leader go. Because the senior leader is the senior leader. It's not saying that the senior leader is perfect, it's just that the senior leader has been invested in at a higher level and has a higher level of responsibility. So you have to figure out how in the world to work and be easy to lead with this person.

Tabatha Claytor

The senior leader.

Ken Claytor

That's the rub. The rub is, but they hard, I can't follow them. They do this, they do, they don't even talk to me, they da da da da da they're they're putting me in a corner. I don't know. Some people have figured it out. Why can't you? You know what I'm saying?

Tabatha Claytor

Everyone else on the staff has figured it out. Why can't you figure it out?

Ken Claytor

Now, senior leader, you got to start um speaking life over people. You gotta see young leaders, you gotta bring them up. See, that's me. I'm always seeing people, bringing them up, prophesying over where they're going. I'm giving them opportunities to use their gift. I'm taking what I have, giving them platform they don't deserve yet, so forth and so forth, giving people a chance. So, yeah, senior leaders, you have a big part to play in it.

Tabatha Claytor

I think that's where we get into different personalities. As a senior leader, you know, it is when you see somebody that's a little off, you know when somebody is something's going on. Um, that's the time. Hey, let's go grab coffee today. Hey, let's go come, let's have lunch together today. That's the time to get into their world.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, if you are a senior leader and you say, Well, I heard them say this, and I heard them say, and now you're creating the contention. You're the problem. You're the problem. You're going in along with what you prejudged without a conversation, without pulling the gold out of people.

Tabatha Claytor

I heard I heard this somewhere, I don't know what I read a book or something, but I heard someone say, be the leader that people need you to be.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Tabatha Claytor

If you are in leadership, lead them. Say what you need to say, you know, do what you need to do, get into their world, but be the leader that they need you to be.

Ken Claytor

So, anyway, this conversation here, I was like, okay, so we're going down play by play of how this has happened. And um the I I'll give you this. This is not to get into too much. The one thing that you should do in the workplace environment, not to bump heads, is that you first go to the leader that's above you. You go to them, you try to work it out, so forth and so on. But if it comes to a place where it's still not getting worked out, you got to go above them. And when you go above them, you don't go as a tattletale. You got to go with humble humility, knowing that you only have one side of the coin. So go to the person above them. Hey, I'm having this problem. How do you think I should handle this? And I was like, listen, if you would have came to me six months ago about this, you wouldn't even have this drama. You just, well, I didn't even know I could come. Why is that in your mind? Like, you got to get a resolve to the bumping the heads or heads gonna roll.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, and you're gonna be the one rolling.

Triggers That Keep You Clashing

Ken Claytor

So, common reasons people keep bumping head. Are you ready? Is pride always needing to be right, poor communication, tone, timing, and delivery. It does matter. Defensiveness. Everything feels like an attack, and it ain't. Unhealed wounds, people react from past pain and bring that into relationships today. The lack of empathy, not considering another's perspective, control issues, wanting things to always be your way, unrealistic expectations. Well, I thought it was gonna be like this. It ain't never like you thought it was gonna be. Offense, taking everything so personal, emotional immaturity, big reactions to small situations, and failure to own your part. Blame shifting keeps conflict alive. And so, anything else that jumps out to you there, sweetheart?

Tabatha Claytor

That's good.

Ken Claytor

What do we do? We ask questions, right, before assuming. We listen to understand, not to win. We watch our tone, we own our part quickly. We do the opposite of the problems. We don't take things so personally. We heal, we heal our wounds, we give grace, people are growing, we learn different personalities. Like I love to say that put me in a room with white folks, yellow folks, brown folks, old folks, young folks, I'll win them all.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You want to be a person that if I get put in a room, I can sit down with Republicans and Democrats, the rich and the poor. I'm gonna win them all. You want to be a person that can, if you put me in the environment, the environment's gonna get better. If I put you in an environment and it's always fallouts and fights, come on, you got some growing to do.

Tabatha Claytor

What did we used to say? You you want to be the thermostat, not the thermometer.

Ken Claytor

You set the temperature.

Tabatha Claytor

You set the temperature. Don't get in there with everybody else.

Ken Claytor

So mature people don't avoid conflict, they learn how to handle it wisely. And that's huge. Uh we're gonna have conflict, but I'm gonna handle it wisely. And I believe that everyone who's listening is now equipped to do that a little bit better.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. I mean, it the world's not falling. The the sky is not falling because you get into a conflict. I think that's what it's like. People get into a disagreement at work and they feel like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. You wouldn't believe it. It's like, yeah, even in church.

Ken Claytor

And they act like there ain't gonna be no conflict. Please.

Tabatha Claytor

It's it's going down.

Ken Claytor

The devil's gonna make sure there's conflict. There's a bunch of broken people in this spiritual hospital. That's the easiest place to find conflict. Working in the church while you're trying to do the work of the Lord.

Tabatha Claytor

I always say that's when you know you really are, you know, becoming family. You're really becoming close and good friends when you start bumping heads because then it's like you start getting on each other's nerves. Like, but you then you have to have more conversation to know each other even better.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, that's like your brother. We were watching the Michael Jackson movie. We are watching MJ. This man starts singing all loud. I'm like, she, he's sitting over here.

Tabatha Claytor

He was inappropriately singing.

Ken Claytor

He's inappropriately loud. I'm like, tell him to be quiet. And it like I'm reaching across, like, tell him.

Tabatha Claytor

Well, some people like to sing. So there's parts on the film that it's in concert. Everybody's singing. That's appropriate. That's your time to sing. But not when Michael's like 10 years old and singing like the roof off the movie.

Ken Claytor

Well, the first time we watched the movie, we was in Chocolate City. We was in DC and it was a party. I was feeling the colour. But even those people, they wasn't trying to sing. Right. They were born like, uh-uh, don't you? We were being Joe. We were so upset with Joker. Right. And I thought it was appropriate reactions in Chocolate City. What's up, DC, baby? But we were in Orlando, and everybody was very subtle. And your brother is over here talking through the movie, through the whole thing. And I was upset.

Tabatha Claytor

I just wish I wasn't in the middle because you were going over you guys were going back and forth over my body.

Ken Claytor

He's my brother. So we got to work it out. We love him anyway. We love him anyway. And that the argument was dropped after the movie because we're family. Right. And I think so many times we jump from church to church because you don't understand we're family, and conflict is a part of family.

Family Friction And Final Takeaways

Ken Claytor

Well, we're out of time for today. I hope that you guys enjoyed today's episode. The best thing that you can do is share. Sharing is caring. Um, review. If you've been blessed by this, send us an email with your testimony because we love to get them. They encourage us, they help us, continue to go. We've done hundreds of episodes, and we hope that we can just keep on going. If this is of value to you, be a part of our family. You know, you can jump over to Kenontabitha.com. We got a lot of marriage boot camps, marriage books. We got all kinds of things. We're just uh we're releasing a book called The Better Marriage. Um, and it's coming out um uh on September the 22nd, y'all. You got to get hold of this book. We just want to invest in your marriage. And uh, I think that this book it has some tools in it that's gonna help you just have a better, a better marriage. And so we're excited about that. Um, every Thursday um we are here. Uh subscribe if you're new to our podcast and um come worship with us on Sundays, 9 45 Eastern Standard Time. If you're in between churches, you can jump online, go to YouTube, and just look up at a live church. And we would love just to do life with you in that context as well. So we love you guys. Keep walking by faith and not by sight. We'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01

Peace.