Offense Builds Walls Brick By Brick

Ken Claytor

Here's the question for you. What part do you play?

Tabatha Claytor

We've been in a broken marriage before, and like you said, and it didn't feel good. We felt disconnected. And offense can be one of those things. It's like offense starts with one brick. And when you don't deal with it, another brick is coming.

Ken Claytor

The first two years of our marriage, I actually had a plan to divorce her. And so I'm not proud of it, but I thought that this just wasn't the one. I thought that I got married too young. But this is what we know that when you get better, the marriage will get better. And there's always more.

Tabatha Claytor

There's always better. And marriage is something that God created, and He created it for us to enjoy, to have fun.

Ken Claytor

Communication is not you talking, though. Communication is you listening and trying to understand. Best marriage advice that I could ever give you is love God more than you love your spouse. Because if you love God more than you love your spouse, then God will help you love your spouse appropriately. I refuse to have a bad marriage. We've been there before, it's no fun.

Tabatha Claytor

Any marriage can be turnover. I believe that with God, any marriage can be turned over.

Ken Claytor

There's nothing too hard for.

From Divorce Plans To Better

Ken Claytor

Um, we're excited about, you know, we've been married for 27 years. I always jokingly say it's been the best 25 years of my life. The first two years was horrible. Had a plan to divorce her. Didn't ever think we would make it to where we are today, but by the grace of God, here we are. And here's the good news it doesn't matter where your marriage and your relationship is right now, there is better that's possible. And I want to introduce to you today our new book that just hit. It's actually, you can pre-order it now. It's coming out on September the 22nd, and um it's called Better Marriage. And the subtitle is Perfect Love for Imperfect Couples. If I'm if I have any imperfect couples and you're just trying to figure this thing out, we're imperfect couples. That's right. We believe that perfect love can help um imperfect couples. And so we want to help your marriage get better, but sometimes marriages require an investment. And so we want you to pre-order this book wherever books are found. Um, we have a link in our show notes that will help you get there and get your um, and we want to hear from you as well. We put our heart and soul in this thing, and so we know it's gonna help your marriage um get better.

Tabatha Claytor

It helped our marriage get better. Yeah, what's in here?

Ken Claytor

These are just tools. We don't have a special anointing, we don't have a special God. Um we just have some tools that we want to pay for to you, and we believe that what God's done for us, He can also do for you. And even if you got a great marriage, it can always get better. I think we can get better. That's right. And that's what this is about. So if you're new to our podcast and you're on YouTube, please hit the subscribe button or the alert icon so that you can be the first to get the content when it's released. And welcome to Doing Life with Ken and Tabitha. Let's do this together.

Better Marriage Book And Welcome

Ken Claytor

Now, today's episode is going to require maturity, everybody, because culture has made leadership and marriage feel toxic and submission feel weak. But biblically, God designed marriage to function through love, trust, honor, sacrifice, partnership, and healthy leadership. And so today's conversation is not about dominion, control, or superiority. It's about order, it's about trust, about unity, and God's design for marriage. And so today's episode is entitled, Let Him Lead A Call to Godly Wives.

SPEAKER_02

It's good.

Ken Claytor

So that title, does it irk you? Does it intrigue you? What do you think?

Tabatha Claytor

It intrigues me.

Ken Claytor

Uh-huh.

Tabatha Claytor

Um, but it also, I kind of I understand. I understand the title being um, you know, a leader, being a pastor for so many years and counseling so many couples, talking to so many women and hearing of some of the frustrations that they have with their husbands. Okay. I think that this is appropriate. A lot of people deal with this issue. It doesn't make you terrible, but you know, women were strong, especially if you're getting married like older in life, you know, in your 30s and 40s and even 50s, and you've lived your whole life single doing what you say do, you know what I mean? And now you have to come up under someone else's leadership, even for your personal life. It can be challenging.

Ken Claytor

And why is that challenging? Why is that hard to feel?

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's just human nature. It's just, you know, um, I I know when I even when we got married, we come together, and you can say, even living with me, it's like it's just hard. You're used to doing things a certain way. You're not used to thinking about this other person and what they think. You like you only are looking from your lens, from your perspective. Now you're being forced to look outside of yourself through the lenses of someone else and compromise, submit, even change certain things. And it's difficult.

Ken Claytor

Do you feel like that's harder for ladies today than it was 15, 20, 30 years ago? And what in our culture is creating something that's hard to lead? Do you feel like there's a misdefinition of submission or a misdefining, so to say, of submission and leadership? Or do you feel like what do you think that is?

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's both and I think it's all the above.

Ken Claytor

Okay.

Tabatha Claytor

Uh I think, you know, back in the day, uh I don't think it was as easy, you know, it's it's submission is just not easy sometimes. So I don't want to minimize what, you know, people, you know, 50 years ago lived and 100 years ago lived. It was probably harder then because women didn't even have the liberties that we have today. So I don't want to say that it's easier for us today or harder for us today. Um, but I will say that I think it can be difficult because of the mindsets that we have. Um, even with women, just in general, uh, when it comes to scripture and, you know, the woman's role in a marriage, you know, nowadays we are

Why Submission Feels Toxic Today

Tabatha Claytor

independent, you know, we and the this is an independence isn't a bad word. We're educated. Uh, we have our own, you know, uh, we go to college, we get educated to do a certain thing. We're doctors, lawyers, judges, pastors, we do anything, you know, all things, anything that a man does, like we do it. And so I think that's what can make it more difficult when it comes to a marriage relationship. We don't understand, if you don't understand covenant and you don't understand the order of God, then it can become confusing because I can come into mind and say, well, I'm educated and and you know, I have a degree and I make money too, so don't tell me what to do. You know, I um I think we should do this.

Ken Claytor

And what would you say to a woman who has that that mindset or that that posture towards a husband? It's almost like I got my own thing, I can make my own decisions, but it's killing a marriage. Why?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, it's not that's it. I would say you have to go back to the biblical definition of marriage. Okay. You have to go back to what does God say a husband is and a wife is? God says that the the two have become one. Right. Let's just take submission out of the issue. But the two have become one. Okay. So if you're only thinking about yourself and what you want to do and what you think should be done, you're not even, you haven't become one. Right. So um I think that we have to go back to the Bible and say, what do we do?

Ken Claytor

Okay, so what is the definition biblically? So a wife is a helpmate to her husband. It's not good that man be alone. So God creates a helper.

Tabatha Claytor

A helper.

Ken Claytor

Um, a helper is not a a slave or servant, it's it's a helper. Um the Bible tells a husband to love his wife like Christ loved the church, and he gave himself for the church. Yes, yes. And so it's a self-sac sacrificing love that God calls a husband to have towards his wife. Yes. Um the Bible says that a a wife is a good thing to her husband. Um, so um that a woman's worth is far above rubies. Oh, so when you say define it, is anything else comes comes to mind?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, no, I think that's it. I think I I would like to define the husband even more though. Okay. Because as a wife, you know, the Bible says, did you did you say this already that he should love the woman like Christ loved the church? That Christ gave himself up for the church. So I think when I married you, and how I look at you as my husband as is, I mean, you're you're my covering. You cover me, you protect me. There is a difference between the man and the woman in the sexes, and in our bodies. I know in the spirit we're the same, there's male nor female, um, but in our physical bodies, in this earth, the assignment that we have here in the earth, my assignment is to be a woman in the earth. You're you're to be a man in the earth. Yeah, there is a difference. There's a difference. There is a weaker sex in the body and a stronger sex. And so even when I look at it from that perspective, I see how God has placed you in an office and you, He has assigned you to be the head of this family and to cover me, to protect me, to keep me. And we're not back in the day where we have to have, you know, like, you know, you might not have weapons and you know, all of these things and going to war for me, but there is still a spiritual implication there, even physical, that you would protect me spiritually and physically.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, I mean, when you say weaker sex, the scripture says a weaker vessel. It's not like weaker intellectually, weaker spiritually, weaker emotionally. It's talking about I probably we I could probably beat you in a fist fight. Um You could well, some husbands won't be able to. There's some bad chicks out there nowadays, but for the most part, for the most part, that's what we mean by weaker, but not in any other kind of way.

Tabatha Claytor

Men have a different strength. When I was younger, I remember being a little girl, and I would fight, I mean, because I had all boy cousins, and man, I was bigger than them, and I thought, I'll beat you up too. You ain't gonna beat me up, I'm gonna beat you up, man. These boys would beat me up.

Ken Claytor

You try to race me and you thought you were gonna beat me in a hundred-yard dad?

Tabatha Claytor

Don't remind me, it was painful.

Ken Claytor

She she told this is our church was much smaller. This was probably 15 years ago. She got all the the women all riled up that she's some runner back in the day and she's gonna beat me. And I haven't tried to run top speed in years. And uh, we wouldn't get it.

Tabatha Claytor

I thought I could beat you. I just thought that you were out of shape and I could beat you. And listen, so I had had our second child. I have to say my side now, but I did have, I had my second side, I child, I got into good shape. You were so you were not in shape at all. But I was pregnant at the time and didn't know it.

Ken Claytor

Okay. Well, I did know it, but I didn't have proof yet. Okay. All right, but the story goes that we had people allowed. And listen, it was like go. It was like before the gun smoke came back down, I was already finished. It was like, I mean, in a hundred-yard dash, you probably got beat by 40 yards. I mean, it was it was bad. It was bad. It was really, really bad. I remember the look on your face was like, I don't believe how fast you are.

Tabatha Claytor

Like, I didn't even get up and you were gone. I'm like, I don't think, but you weren't even trying though. That's the point. Right, right. You weren't trying to like totally cremate your wife. You know what I mean?

Ken Claytor

I kind of started off slow, like, and I was like, okay. But then my daughter, my daughter, who's a college track runner, so she runs all of her like junior Olympics, yeah, run through high school, um, high school at her peak, go to college on a track scholarship. We went to the park and she had the audacity to try to challenge me to a race. I was like, sweetheart, you don't want to do that.

Tabatha Claytor

Now I knew that what it would be.

Ken Claytor

Man, what's the strongest?

Tabatha Claytor

She said, Hannah, your daddy, he's gonna beat you, baby. And she did not listen.

Ken Claytor

She did not listen. And it was a 40-yard and she was like, I don't believe this. Like this man, I've never seen him run before. Anyway, the point is that God has given us a different, what is it called? A muscle twitch. He's given us a different muscle fiber. That don't make me better than you. We're equal in value. We've been both made in the image and likeness of God and all of that kind of stuff. Let's let's come back to something. Yes, yes. A

Independence Versus Covenant Oneness

Ken Claytor

husband is defined as the head of the marriage. Head does not mean dictator, it does not mean uh communist leader, it does not mean slave owner, it doesn't mean head to me means I'm the one responsible to lead you and bring the gold out of you. If you if we get a new car, you get it first. If we get a new house, you get to pick which one. Um it is servant leadership that we see displayed in Jesus at its finest. I want to wash your feet, I want to care for my good thing. I want you to have the very best in life. I want to pull all of your gifting out. I want you to have the best life. To me, that's what headship is really about. I take the persecution first for the family, I carry the warfare, I carry the weight. Yes. You ain't gotta work without me, baby. If anybody's gonna work, I'm gonna go to work, you stay home, I got you. I'm gonna think, what can I do to serve you, cover you, help you, lead you the best that I can? And that's the role of us. So, so I guess we're going back to let him lead and why are we here? Do you feel like there's a lot of women who don't trust their husbands to lead or they feel a little disgruntled, like, well, he just ain't leading. He just ain't, he don't make decisions, he don't, he don't do this. And if so, why do you think that is, and what do we do about that?

Tabatha Claytor

Well, I think um some of it's because they're not leading and they don't know what to do.

Ken Claytor

I would I would go as far, especially for my singles, if you are a woman, you're not looking for somebody who has a nice smile and pretty eyes and six foot five and you know, so for I mean, those things are good. You're looking for a leader. And that's what women I don't think we we put that on our list. Well, I want him to have a six-pack and I want him to be nice to his mama. No, you're looking for a leader. Yeah, you're looking for somebody that can handle hard days, you're looking for people that know how to pray when things are really, really, really difficult. You need somebody who can make some decisions, you need somebody who has drive, determination, that can get up in the in the morning. You need somebody who can pay some bills, cut some grass. You need a leader.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

And I think that when you find a good leader, I and tell me, this might sound chauvinistic, but I don't think that it is. So balance me out. I feel like there are a lot of women who are in leadership positions right now, and they are great leaders, but there are some of them that are leading their families in a way that God never intended for them, designed, uh, designed for them to do, and they're being burnt out emotionally and spiritually. And you won't know, right? Because thank God for the single mothers, they got to do what they got to do to take care, play the mom and the dad. Thank God for women that are pioneers and running the companies, and I and I believe in that. But I do believe that there are some women that are operating in a grace that God never designed for them to operate, and their life is hard because they're fulfilling a role that they wasn't originally intended to fulfill in that magnitude. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah, some women who are wives. As a wife, you know, you step into, you know, a spirit realm. You know, there's another there's a higher realm that you step step into in the spirit, so to say. And so when you become married, you enter into warfare that married people are get into. When you're not married, you don't experience that. The devil doesn't, it there's no warfare there because there's nothing for the enemy to take away. But when you become married, now you enter into a different kind of warfare. And the woman has been designed to be covered in that warfare. And if she lacks that covering, I mean, God is good. He's graceful, he's merciful, he's going to, you know, cover you, but it's still, it makes it harder for the woman. It makes her have to, you know, take a position, like you said, that she hasn't been designed for and created for.

Ken Claytor

For some reason lately, I've been having this thought about starting a leadership school for husbands because a lot of husbands don't know how to lead because they never had a father that led them. Yes. So it's hard for you to reduplicate something that you've never seen. And when you've never seen leadership in a home, it's going to be hard for you to lead in business. It's going to be hard for you to lead in now. Thank God there's rams in the bushes that you can come to church and be have spiritual fathers, that you can have coaches that step in. And even though you had not good men models, so to say, that you can kind of come into a season where, you know, God can put the right people around you so that you can learn leadership. But a lot of guys who have never seen real men leadership, they can be around other great men leaders and not even know how to learn it. Right. It's like I see what you're doing, but I have no clue how to sponge off you. I see what you're doing, but I have no clue how to apply that to my life. So I almost want to start like a school of leadership for husbands.

Tabatha Claytor

I I think you you should think about that seriously. There's there's two different there's the natural leadership and the spiritual leadership. And some, I think you can either just not know how to do both of them, uh, but they are two different things. And the spirit, I think we need both also. We we need leadership and we need to be covered naturally and spiritually. So the natural side is the provision, it's the contributing to the family and how the finances and how it functions.

Ken Claytor

It's this is where we're going. This is what God is saying. It's almost like I'm the head priest and prophet of this home. This is what God, we're going to be debt-free. We're going to go to church.

Tabatha Claytor

Now, in order to say those things, you have to have a relationship with God.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, all leadership for a husband's God, it starts with Jesus being at the center of it.

Tabatha Claytor

And I think that that's what a lot of men lack there is it's either that's highly you lacking the natural or highly lacking the spiritual, where you're not going to God. You don't know where you should go. You don't have a vision for the family. The woman is saying this, that, and the other. And I think, hey, next year we're going to go this, we're going to put this much money away to savings. We're going to go on vacation here. The woman is making all those decisions. That's fine if she's bringing it to the table. But how we would, how I would do that if I were a woman and my husband, you know, I would say, hey, this is what I feel like, you know, God is saying. Take it, read it, pray about it. Let's talk talk about it.

Ken Claytor

As a husband, I'm asking you, sweetheart, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Lately I've been saying, pray with me about this. See what God says to you. Yes. Because all good leaders, like like if you if you follow NBA, um, you have certain teams that win championships, and you have like a coach of the year. Um recently, Joe Mazzula, who's the head coach of uh the Boston Celtics, says that's a dumb award. And the reason that he said the coach of the year was a dumb award because you can't just give it to the coach, you got to give it to the coaching staff.

Tabatha Claytor

Wow.

Ken Claytor

Follow me on this. So if you are a head coach, you're a husband of a family, you got to listen to your your staff. So the coaching staff are the one who, it's not just one person, it's it's it's a new numerous people that's out there doing certain responsibilities to help this team be ready to win the championship. The husband and wife is the leadership team. Now, I'm the head coach, but I want to listen to what you're I married you because you're wise. I married you because you're anointed. I married you because you, you know what I'm saying? So I want to be able to listen to what you're saying so you really influence me. So at the end of the day, great leadership is like it's mutual submission and we make leader decisions together. Yes. Now, if I have to make a decision for our team, I will after much counsel and hopefully getting us on the same page. But um I think just redefining, okay, what does it mean for a man to lead and then letting him lead?

Headship As Servant Leadership

Ken Claytor

Yes. Let's build a little more foundation. Biblical leadership is not about power, it's not about ego, control, or intimidation. A godly husband is called to serve, sacrifice, protect, lead spiritually like in love like Christ did. And when leadership is healthy, submission becomes easier. But when leadership is immature, trust gets damaged. Um, I've heard and seen, you know, men take this wives be subject to their husbands and all things. And it's a point that I love to bring up. Um, especially I have uh there's a current situation where I've been hearing a man say, Well, just do what I tell you to do. Just do what I you're supposed to be subject to me and everything. Your wife is not your slave. She is a daughter of God most high, and you are to steward her like that. She is not your slave, she is not supposed to do everything you tell her to do. If your husband ever tells you to do something that's outside of God's will, go with God. You don't have to be subject to everything to where it violates and brings you into a place of sin and disobedience to God and to the spirit of God.

Tabatha Claytor

That's like the lowest form of leadership. Do it because I said it's the lowest form of leaders. If people don't do it because they know you're the leaders, it ain't leadership at all.

SPEAKER_00

Do what I tell you to do. I'm the man, I'm the man, I'm the man. Well, okay, man.

Ken Claytor

Learn how to serve your wife and bring out the goal. Yeah. And so biblical submission is a willing posture of trust, honor, and partnership within God's design for marriage. Yeah. It does not mean silence, weakness, losing your personality, tolerating abuse, becoming less valuable. And healthy leadership does not mean controlling your wife, demanding obedience, shutting down her voice. Biblical marriage is partnership with order. Let me say it again. It is partnership with order. All right.

Red Flags Abuse And Misused Scripture

Ken Claytor

And so let's bring this back around to the ladies. Why do you think that's a struggle? So when I say let him lead, that means that, okay, there are wives, and this is the whole point of this. Yeah, yeah. That are like, I ain't letting him lead. Maybe she don't trust them. Maybe she feels like she got the best idea, and it's causing this. Yeah. Bumping heads. We did that podcast a couple of weeks ago. You gotta check that out. It's causing this contention that God can't bless.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

So the scripture says, remember that one scripture that says I know which one you're gonna say. It talks about when a husband and wife is in disagreement, their prayers are hindered. Were you thinking of that one? No. I didn't think so.

Tabatha Claytor

Because of my reaction.

Ken Claytor

No, no, no. You just we just don't normally think of like like that off the top. So it says that, and I always thought that with if me and you are in contention, God's doing like this to my prayers. And some of you men, you're believing God for too much for God to be doing this. You're believing God for finances and business and breakthrough, but God is doing this because you don't have this together. Right. And so I always wanted us to be in unity, but talk to me about let him lead. Let him lead.

Tabatha Claytor

I think it's, you know, we have to, as a wife, you have to let him lead. He's going to lead to the, to the, um, to the capacity that you allow him to lead. Yeah. If he cannot lead you, if you don't let him lead, if he's saying, hey, I think God is saying this. I feel like we want to do this in the future. I feel like, you know, uh, I want to do this with the children. And you're just like, no, no, no, my way is better. I know everything. I feel like this. You are not allowing him to lead. He cannot lead. And you're out of order. You are out of order.

Ken Claytor

I I need to get I need to get closer to home with this one, though. Because are you saying that when you say let him lead, like let him make all the decisions?

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. I mean, yes and no. I mean, yes, why not? Okay, so if you said, hey, I think we need to do A, I would say, if I disagreed, uh, I don't agree with that. I think that is now, A isn't sinful. It isn't anything that's going to make us go broke. I mean, it's nothing, you know, it's it's just like, but I do disagree with it. I think we need to do it this way. And but, you know, if you feel like, you know, that's the way. I mean, I'm telling you, this is how I feel, but I respect the God in you. If you feel like we need to do that, go ahead and do it. That is, I disagreed with you.

Ken Claytor

Hold on, hold on. So you don't agree with me, but you're still gonna go with me.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

Why?

Tabatha Claytor

Because I'm following the order of God. I'm following I'm letting you lead me.

Ken Claytor

But it feels like a loss. It feels like a loss for me because I don't think we should do it and I think it's dumb. And matter of fact, you've done it before and we got messed up when I followed you.

Tabatha Claytor

It it it's funny, like you say that because then you now given it, let's say I have a husband who's who doesn't have a history of failure. He doesn't have a history of, he's not that guy that goes from one job to another job, from one church to another church. He's not that guy that, you know, is unstable and untrustworthy. That's not what I'm talking about right now, okay? I'm not talking about that guy. I'm talking about the guy, you know, he's had the same job. You can trust him. He's, you know, he's good with relationships. You know you can trust him, but you don't want to because you think you know better.

Ken Claytor

Okay. And what?

Tabatha Claytor

That is yes, just do what he said. Let him lead.

Ken Claytor

Okay, but what about the guy who has made some mistakes and the guy who has had a couple jobs? Do we we not let him lead?

Tabatha Claytor

Um, that's hard. If it were me, I can't say because I really haven't been in that situation. But I have been in situations where I've probably disagreed with you, but I said, I'm going to trust the God in you and let you lead. And yeah, it did feel like a loss, but I did it anyway.

Ken Claytor

Okay, my point is just that I took you all around a circle because I'm trying to come back to it.

Tabatha Claytor

It's hard. It's a hard thing to say. Yeah, because you don't want to say stuff like some women are in hard challenging situations. It's hard to tell them, just do it. You know, it's hard to say that.

Ken Claytor

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That but my point, you still don't know my point.

Tabatha Claytor

Okay.

Ken Claytor

My point is that you're trusting God.

Tabatha Claytor

I'm trusting God. Yes.

Ken Claytor

So what you're saying when you say I'm trusting the God in you, basically I'm trusting the order of God is basically I'm trusting God.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

The whole point, the only way that you can ever follow somebody that you don't agree with is that you have to trust God. You have to trust God. So I trust God that even if you make a mistake, all things are gonna work together for my good because I love God and I've been called according to his purposes. Even if we take a step back, if God be for me, who can be against me? We're gonna take two steps forward.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Woman of God, you're gonna have to determine whether you want to have a war in every decision and bump heads and be that nagging woman. The Bible says it's better to be in a rooftop with a house and a with a nagging woman. Yeah. If you want to be that person that just tears your husband down and you tear it down with your own hands, or if you're gonna be that supportive, encouraging person that says, if you lose, I'm losing with you, and if you win, I'm winning with you.

unknown

Right.

Ken Claytor

If we're in a fight, we're in a fight together. If we're on top, we're on top together. And every man is looking for a woman that just believes in them. True. So if you married me, you gotta believe in me. Right. If you stop believing in me, why'd you marry me? Now, okay, there's a really challenging situation where a woman marries a man and he's just turn on the on the couch playing video games all day long. Won't get a job, won't have a job. That's a whole nother situation.

Tabatha Claytor

That's a different situation. Yeah.

Ken Claytor

You need to go to some professional counseling because you're gonna have to win his heart and you're gonna have to. This is the area where you're you're in a battle. You're in a battle. So we don't have all the answers for you. That's you're gonna need some counseling.

Tabatha Claytor

So uh, so this, so we're talking about let him lead. So

Letting Him Lead When You Disagree

Tabatha Claytor

we're talking to the wife who you're bumping heads. We're saying maybe you need to look at yourself and say, Am I letting him lead or am I being difficult to lead?

Ken Claytor

Yeah. I'm I'm talking about, okay, think about a few people that you might know that, man, they're they're a um, they're boss lady, okay, like you. They own their own business, so forth and so on. But they married a guy that's more like he's a good guy, but he just doesn't have that kind of ambition. Yeah. He doesn't have that drive. There's almost a temptation for her to look at him as less than because she's a go-getter, she's ambition, she's out here doing this, and truthfully, he leads, but he doesn't lead like she leads. Right. Let him lead.

Tabatha Claytor

Yes.

Ken Claytor

What does that mean though? How do I let him lead?

Tabatha Claytor

I think we don't put our expectations on him. Like we don't say, oh, well, you should be um, you should be out networking and you should have a podcast and you should, you know, be on social media and wanna do that.

Ken Claytor

He was not like that when you were dating. He was not like that before you married. He's not changing into you.

Tabatha Claytor

He doesn't want to be an entrepreneur. He got a nine-to-five job. It's steady, he got health care, he takes care of his family, he comes home.

Ken Claytor

Don't belittle that man because he's he doesn't have your job. Exactly. But here's what she has to understand that if you married him, it's still the law of the lid. Spiritually speaking, in the family, you still have to look to him. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And that's just a hard thing for a woman who's who's bossing it so far. But I think that about you, I mean, you're pretty type A personality. You can figure out your own stuff. You didn't have a lot of strong men growing up. You are very, very, very independent. You can do whatever you want to do, but somehow, and it's not because I'm just a great leader, somehow there's something in you that trusts God enough to submit to my leadership, good, bad, ugly, or indifferent.

Tabatha Claytor

Yeah. Um, it it's it's I trust the God in you, but then I also have God with me to let me know when I'm being hard to lead. I remember uh when the children were smaller coming home, I would go to work, I would run, you know, a church, an organization, pray and lead and do all of these things. I'd go out traveling, come back home, and I'm bossing it. I'm speaking into people's lives, I'm running stuff. And then I'd come home and you happen to be there, and I'm bossing the kids and I'm bossing you too. And I remember you would be, I remember you looking at me at times and being like, you can't give me grace for a minute.

Ken Claytor

Like, I'm not your kid. Don't boss me with it.

Tabatha Claytor

I'm not your child. Don't tell me what to do. And we would, I we would bump heads. Um, but I would listen to what you had to say, and then it was like the Holy Spirit told me I would come home and I, I mean, I'm still in that flow. I still got my workflow on, but then I would look at you and I'd be uh hold back, hold up now. This is your this is your husband, this ain't your child, this is your husband, this isn't your coworker.

Ken Claytor

Here's some of the answers. So the reason that you would hold up is because you honored me. Yeah, and you preferred me, yeah, and you esteemed me and you look to me. And the Bible says that you owe that kind of reference. Just like I owe you love, your husband. So I owe you love, you kind of owe your husband respect and honor. And that's not contingent upon all of his current decisions. Sometimes you have to give him honor even before you feel like he's worthy of honor, and you prophetically point him in the right direction.

Tabatha Claytor

Now, I I want to say this too. Some other ways that I allow you to lead is it's it doesn't really have anything to do with you. It's my own heart posture and position toward my love for God and how I want to serve God's son. Okay. Okay. So I in my household, I want my husband to be like, I want you to feel like you are the man. I want you to feel like, man, my wife loves me. I want you to feel like a king in your castle. So there's a certain way that I am going to keep my house because I want you to come home to a clean home. This is me. There's certain way I personally I like to cook. That's my love language. I like to make sure I like, I still make your plate to this day because I it's my way of serving you and honoring you. And what am I do? I'm I'm allowing you to lead. Here, here, here you go, husband. Here's a food. Eat this food. I made it just for you. Um, uh whether I'm cleaning the bedroom, like whatever I'm doing, the atmosphere of my home, my children, how I teach them to honor you. Hey, daddy just came home. Why don't you go over there and say hi? Like I'm teaching them those things. So I'm setting an atmosphere of honor, but I'm also doing that intentionally because I am honoring you. I'm placing you in a position in my heart that I'm allowing you to lead me. And you can tell me, does that make you feel like, oh, she respects me? I can lead her.

Ken Claytor

I don't know. It makes me feel like I can face the world and I can take over the world. It makes me feel like the battles that I go through as a man when I come home, that I am special, that there's something about me that my wife believes in me, that no matter how much pain that I go through, that I can go back into it. It's almost like a boxer coming to a great corner man, and that corner man saying, You can go out there, you know you got to move to the left, you gotta you gotta counterpunch. It's almost like I can come home from the day and you can fill me back up with that kind of love and honor, and I'm like, I can go and do this for my family. There's just something about the difference between a woman who tears him down versus a woman who builds them up. You have been a historical builder up of me. And so they say behind every great man is a great woman. And I think that's very, very, very true.

Tabatha Claytor

I believe that. We have so much power as the wife. Yeah, we have so much power.

Ken Claytor

I feel like you need to do a wives school of supportive leadership.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ken Claytor

Because that's what it is. Like wives, you are leaders, just like uh assistant basketball coach, it's supportive leadership.

Tabatha Claytor

Some of the stuff is how we say it, you know. Some of the stuff is you're not like talking at you because, hey, I think this, da-da-da-da-da, but talking to you, hey baby, I really I was thinking about this situation and I really feel like this. What do you think? It's engaging in conversation, you know. Um, I was thinking about a couple of ways that I allow you to lead. Because sometimes, depending on who you are, we are talk, okay, we're talking about a a spectrum of things. We're talking about on one end of the spectrum, we have little things like I want to eat chicken for dinner, you want to eat beef. Well, why we always gotta do what you want to do? Okay, like that's that's baby stuff. That's baby stuff. Look, baby, just what what do you want?

Ken Claytor

We never if you want chicken every day, I will do that.

Tabatha Claytor

Like, that's you know, okay, but some people are there, uh-huh. Okay, let them lead. What do you want? I whatever you want. I'll make two minutes.

Ken Claytor

Whatever you need to. And so we figure it out.

Tabatha Claytor

Right, okay. So, but as the wife, I'm I'm gonna let you lead in that little things. You you know, you like the color blue, fine. I we'll do all blue if you will. That that's easy. Lead that. I don't care about that. But then there are decisions um that you have to lead on. And uh, some of our examples are this. We

A Real Decision About More Kids

Tabatha Claytor

had three children, and in every childbirth, it was really hard for me. Um, it got better and better, but afterwards, it was hard for my body to bounce back. And you saw me really struggle. And after the last child, we had two girls and a boy. I felt like I always thought we were gonna have four children. That was my goal. That's what I wanted. And we talked about it, it was no big deal. After the third one, you came back and you were like, Tab, I think I don't want to have any more kids. And you listed the reasons. Number one, your health. I don't want to sit and watch my wife go through this again. I don't want to do it in the hospital before pregnancy and after pregnancy. Like, I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

Tabatha Claytor

And we talked about it, and it was, I don't want to necessarily say it was hurtful, but it was like, okay, that was a big deal. This was our dream. This is what we thought. I wanted to have another baby, but you know what? I can submit that to God. I prayed about it. Yeah, you're right, babe. I'm gonna go with you on this because sometimes I can be emotional, sometimes I can be, you know, like holding on to something, but I'm trusting the God in you for my future. And you said, I want my life, my wife around. You know, we're gonna we're gonna grow old together. And I said, Okay, I'm gonna trust the God in you. And I went with that. You went and got a vasectomy. We got three kids, okay?

Ken Claytor

Praise God.

Tabatha Claytor

Praise the Lord. Now that's an example of I'm trusting your leadership. I trust that you have my best interest at heart.

Ken Claytor

Was there another example that you had?

Tabatha Claytor

There is another example that I can't remember right now because I got a little emotional thinking about it, like, oh my gosh.

Ken Claytor

I didn't know that was that big of a deal.

Tabatha Claytor

You do love me. No, it yeah, it wasn't. It was a big deal for me. It was a big deal for me. Yeah.

Ken Claytor

All right.

Tabatha Claytor

And it's funny that you didn't know it, but I knew that I knew that it was the right thing to do. I knew it was the right thing to do.

Ken Claytor

Well,

Practical Ways Wives Support Leadership

Ken Claytor

I want to get practical as we end today. And um, here's some ways wives can support healthy leaderships um of their husbands. Pray for your husband consistently because prayer changes the atmosphere. Um, I feel like you pray for me all the time, and so that's huge. Um speak respectfully because tone matters deeply. I feel like you always build me up with your words and never tear me down. Um, wives, you can encourage his growth, um, build him up, you know. Don't always just talk about what he's not doing, talk about what he is doing. Um never publicly dishonor him. You know, public honor strengthens marriage. And so you're gonna have conversations about growing and things that need to be changed, but publicly, um, make it seem like he's just the man. Um communicate honestly but wisely, you know, it's like truth with respect. I think that's huge. Um let him carry the responsibility, don't try to control everything. Um I will hear the words let go and let God create emotional safety because support fuels confidence. You gotta create a safe place. Um men, many times they they have what we call he motions where they feel it even more than women sometimes, but they don't say it. And you gotta create an atmosphere where he's comfortable with talking. Um sometimes men say things that their wives are like, I don't believe he said that. I don't believe he does it, at least he said it. The most dangerous thing is the man that's not talking. Trust God while your husband grows because growth is a process. You gotta give him some space. Work as a team because marriage is partnership, um, and keep God at the center because healthy order flows from spiritual alignment. And it's always the greatest advice that we could ever give a married couple is to love God more than you love your spouse, and God will help you with everything else. And so we're out of time for today, um, but I enjoyed this one. And I pray this brought some perspective to your marriage. Here's the deal this is a journey that you guys are in. We're 27 years into the journey, and we're not perfect at all. You know, we have all kinds of weaknesses and things that we're always trying to get better, but we we know that we're two imperfect people that serve a perfect God that wants to finish well. And when we said this is till death does us part, we we really meant that. So we're willing to fight together and build together and grow together, and we pray the same thing for you in the mighty name of Jesus.

Prayer Closing And Next Steps

Ken Claytor

We got this new book that we just released. I hope you can get a copy of it because we've taken um 27 years of our ups and downs, um, some of our pain and the principles that God has given us to cause us to now be best friends and to be able to share marriage ministry around the world. I think that this will be um a great tool in your arsenal, and some of your healing is going to be found in this book. And so you can grab a hold of it. I think there'll be a link in the show notes as well. Hey, we love you guys. If you're ever in Florida, come worship with us. We have campuses in Orlando, Florida. We also have campuses in Tampa, in Gainesville, Florida. Um, we also have a special conference, which is an encounter conference. We do some marriage segments, some prophetic segments, some activation moments. It's coming up in the beginning of November. You can find a link to that in our show notes as well. And um, of course, every Thursday we drop a new episode. So if you're new to our podcast, hit the subscribe button or the alert icon on YouTube so you can be the first to get the content when it's released. And just remember this that when you get better, the marriage gets better. We'll see you next Thursday. Peace.