S1 Ep2 - Inside Hamburg Aviation and the Crystal Cabin Awards Association

In today's episode, we are joined by Lukas Kaestner, the Head of Marketing, PR and Events from Hamburg Aviation, a non-profit organization that supports the aviation industry in the Hamburg region. Lukas is also the Co-Founder of the Sustainable Aero Lab and President of the Crystal Cabin Award Association. 

Hamburg Aviation is a non-profit networking and communications agency supporting the aviation cluster in the Hamburg Metropolitan Region – a key location in the civil aviation world. We will discuss Hamburg Aviation's Sustainable Aero Lab programs, which focus on developing sustainable technologies and practices to achieve decarbonization of the airline industry and reach the ‘Net Zero’ target. Lukas will explain the goals of this programs and how startups can get involved.

Known for its annual Crystal Cabin Awards which recognizes innovation and excellence in aircraft cabin design, Lukas will share insights into this prestigious industry award often referred to as the ‘Oscars’ of the Airline industry, the role it plays in promoting innovation within the industry and some tips for submitting your innovation to one of the eight award categories.

So, join us as we delve into the world of Hamburg Aviation and learn more about the exciting initiatives they are driving in the industry, get some insights into the Crystal Cabin Awards and some tips on the best spots to visit in Hamburg Germany from a local! 

Lukas recommendations when visiting Hamburg, Germany
Miniatur Wonderland
Strandperle (Beach Pearl)


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Transcript

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. Even though it has been reviewed by a human, it may contain errors. Please review the audio for the episode and use that as the guide before quoting from this episode or transcript. Feel free to contact the team at ‘On Your Flight Today’ with any questions.

On Your Flight Today – Season 1, Episode 2 

Recorded: Dec 2022 | Live Date: Feb 2023

Host: Corinne Streichert

Guest: Lukas Kaestner, Head of Marketing, PR and Events – Hamburg Aviation, Co-Founder Sustainable Aero Lab and President & Executive Board Member – Crystal Cabin Award Association

[Corinne]: Lukas, thank you for joining us. How are you today?

[Lukas]: Good it's an honor to be on your podcast, thanks for inviting me Corinne. Happy to be here. 

[Corinne]: My pleasure, thank you for coming. How’s things in Hamburg?

[Lukas]: Very cold at the moment, unusually cold but it's still sunny so and we have a little snow on the ground, so I’m happy.

[Corinne]: It is that time of year, isn't it?

[Lukas]: It should be yes, for once it is {chuckles}

[Corinne]: So, quite an introduction and you wear so many hats at Hamburg Aviation.

[Lukas]: I do.

[Corinne]: We know Hamburg Aviation has got over forty thousand specialists, three hundred

Companies, three core companies, it is a massive operation. Could you tell us a bit about the various roles that you do have at Hamburg Aviation?

[Lukas]: Yes, so Hamburg aviation is basically at the core of what I do and what we do. It's the platform for the broader topics of the aviation community of Hamburg I have to say. As mentioned, we're one of the largest aviation sites especially for commercial aviation in the world. We have some specialties that we're focusing on, and I think one for example, is cabins the other one is production, but if you look at the entire life cycle the interesting thing is that Hamburg is really a place where the entire life cycle of a commercial aircraft is being reflected.

So, from the development and the production of aircraft which is being done mostly

at Airbus to the whole operation side and the MRO side which is being done by 

Lufthansa Technik who are also the world leading player in this space. So, this is a

really interesting community to build on because wherever you look at the life cycle of

an aircraft and that includes also the cabin, you will find experts here in the

region. We also have some suppliers that integrate into this. So, it's a really

exciting mix in the community and Hamburg Aviation’s mission is basically to

connect all the dots onsite with each other so people actually know each other

you know. It's easy to spend your entire career at Airbus or at Lufthansa Technik and never leave the premises and it's really interesting and exciting to see who else is out there, and often times working on very similar topics. And the other mission that we have is connect the dots to the international community of aviation because as, we all know aviation is a very international industry which as you know, part of the beauty of our industry, and we of course make sure that you know we have the connection to the other international regions and players and stakeholders. Not only through events like the Aircraft Interiors Expo but in general, through the topics that we specialize in and it's very dynamic so there are a lot of exciting projects always coming out of this ecosystem and it's a lot of fun to follow.

[Corinne]: Yeah, for sure I must admit when I first discovered Hamburg Aviation obviously through AIX, the Aircraft Interiors Expo, I had no idea at the breadth, the size of the operations, the organization I know you know it's a powerful alliance of business, science politics, education...

 [Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: It's just absolutely amazing and some of the stuff coming out of there I think is absolutely brilliant. There's a lot of work underway I believe in the sustainability area, you’re one of the founders of the Sustainable Aero Labs

 [Lukas]: Yes

 [Corinne]: Can you tell us a bit more about that and how can people get involved?

[Lukas]: Yes, so it's a super interesting project that I helped launch in 2020 actually, late 2020, so our first session was in 2021. So, the Sustainable Aero Lab is an accelerator program for startups and young companies who work on technologies to decarbonize aviation. Getting there and developing this initiative was kind of our Covid project because everybody was stuck at their home places, and we couldn't travel anymore and at the same time we realize you

Know. there are still aside from the pandemic there are such pressing issues that our

industries have had to face such as sustainability and getting to net zero and if you look at the timeline, you know being a net zero industry by 2050, that sounds far away maybe

to, at the first glance, but it's almost 28 years only. Looking back, you know that's the, that's the entire time that we have seen the Boeing 777 in the skies, and it's still considered a modern aircraft. So if we want to have hydrogen aircraft fully sustainable fuel running aircraft in the skies by 2050 we really need to double down at the speed of innovation that we have, in the industry and that is opening up to new players, new technologies and just opening up the discussion to be less of a silo, less of a closed shop but openly sharing you know, what are the ideas and how can we connect the ideas into practice at a faster speed. And this is what we focus on with the sustainable aero lab. We focus a lot on mentoring we bring together very high ranking experts from around the world into this program from aerospace from other industries but also from venture capital which is really interesting to see how these communities mix and mingle because there weren't a lot of touch points in the past you know, VCs looked a lot into the software sphere but this is changing as well you see a lot more hardware and especially zero emission technology is being funded. So, this a very interesting point for aviation right now to also open up new ways of funding for ideas and technologies and we bring all these people together and really focus on what needs to happen next for a certain company or for a certain project to evolve, and to get to a higher technological readiness level. This is kind of the core of what we do, and we do this globally. We've had over 40 start-ups in the first 2 years from around the world, really from Seattle to Melbourne, Australia. So, we have our roots in Hamburg, but we're not a Hamburg minded initiative, we’re truly global and it's really really fun see how this is evolving and the corporation and also the investments that we've already seen come out of this. It's a really fun project.

[Corinne]: Wow! So, you know it does involve a lot of start- ups so for anyone out there that's listening, but has this idea that wants to make a contribution that's a Start-up, what would be

the best way, potentially not in the Hamburg area what would be the best way to start to get engaged and get involved and contribute?

[Lukas]: Yeah, it's actually really easy, I think. We have the website of the lab which is Sustainable.aero really easy to take down I think, and then you can just read more information there and also directly apply to the program from that website and that just means that your concept gets directed onwards to the Venture Management team and they will be in touch with you and discuss the next steps. So really, we want to have low hurdles to get in touch and also, we don't have any deadlines. So, we work with seasons but that doesn't mean you know that a company can only apply, I don't know, through February and March, so you can contact us anytime and join the program at any time, because we really want to focus on the ideas and the technologies and not on certain dates.

[Corinne]: Great, ‘cause that was going to be my next question. Is it like an annual intake? So, it sounds like it's any time reach out to get the ball rolling?

[Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: What I will also do is include in the show notes, the links to the websites that you are referring, for anyone interested in getting involved in that. 

[Lukas]:  Thank You.

[Corinne]: Thank you for that overview. I know there's a lot happening in that space, not my area of expertise, but I know you are one of those experts and it sounds like there's so much great stuff going on in Hamburg for sustainability, to getting towards, Net Zero, so thank you for sharing. Just want to switch topics now to one of my favorites, very close to my heart

the Crystal Cabin Awards.

[Lukas]: Yes, my other hat. {chuckles}

[Corinne]: Your other hat, yes. At the time of recording this you know there's still some time left, and this will go live before the close of submissions on the 25th of January.  So, you do wear the hat, you are the President of the Crystal Cabin. Being the president of the Crystal Cabin, can you share some insights into the behind-the-scenes and the teams that you work with in some of the challenges that, you know I mean I've had some involvement obviously with a Crystal Cabin and see it from a different perspective, but you see all of it, so can share some insights?

[Lukas]: Yes, I'm happy to. So maybe to first make a connection to the topic before, you know though the Sustainable Aero Lab and Crystal Cabin Awards are very different communities, I

would say. They both focus on the same goal. It's basically an international network of connecting people and forwarding ideas within an industry segment you know and really push innovation forward. And I think this is something where the Crystal Cabin Award has taken great success in the past. I'm saying this so blatantly because it's not what I really did all time because I joined when the Crystal Cabin Award was already at full spin and I think the wonderful thing is that we were able to develop the Crystal Cabin Award from really an industry prize, a B2B award,  into a globally recognized innovation award for air travel that is being recognized by all the industry players including the airlines, including media and it's really wonderful to see the community that that has come out of it. And at the same time, it's really become a big project for us as well because we do this within Hamburg aviation. And again, it's not connected to, it's rooted in Hamburg, but it is not a Hamburg based prize, so we don't have a Hamburg quota or anything. So, it's truly global and especially around the peak times of the season when we have the final voting’s, and we have the prize giving ceremony when we have the main round judges, it's really gotten a lot of project management to deal with and we're fortunate to have a really great team at Hamburg Aviation who is covering this so it's a lot of work by now, to do this. But the great thing is that we've managed so far to stay agile with the project. So, categories are being adapted once in a while to focus on development in the industry for example. Last year we introduced the Sustainable Cabin category in a task force together with the Judging panel, to see you know where the industry is heading, what is needed in terms of refocusing from the Crystal Cabin Awards. And also, during Covid you know, we've always been an in-person event so we had to switch everything to doing a live TV coverage, of the awards when it became clear that we will not have any in person events anytime soon. And we also managed to do that. So, this is also great to see how we are able to adapt to the current situations and this is, I think also that that our industry has managed well in the past years, really adapting to new situations and working with them.

[Corinne]: Yeah, for sure, and I have to say to be honest, having been a member of the Judging panel the co-ordination particularly during Covid, how quickly your team pulled it together, did the event online, I think is absolutely fantastic. Tremendously put together, well organized and planned and I find every year it just keeps getting better and better. To kind of clarify, so you know with the Crystal Cabin there were quite a few categories including Cabin Concepts. Cabin Systems, Health and Safety, IFEC and Digital services, my favorite {chuckles} Material and Components, Passenger Comfort, Sustainable Cabin as you mentioned, and the University category. So quite a broad range within the aircraft interiors. For those out there that are listening that have some innovation and contemplating submitting, do you have any tips you know, like say that top 3 do’s and don’ts that would help people out there that are considering applying and submitting their innovation?

[Lukas]: Yes, so the biggest tip from my end is don't be shy you know. Really dare to throw your hat into the ring because the community, and you're part of the judging panel Corinne, so it's almost 30 people from all sides of the industry. So, if you really want to get a concept noted within the Pax Ex industry, I think it's a great way to get feedback and show your concept to the world because you know so many people from all over the industry are coming together and look at these concepts. It has really helped a lot of ideas and companies to come to the stage and really get traction in the past, so this is something I highly encourage people to

just try it out and be confident in your product. At the same time, I think it's

important to really try to think of what the situation the judges will be in, because we've had seasons in the past pre-Covid where we have received over 100 entries, so it's important to have a pitch presentation that is crisp, that is focusing on the main USPs  that you don't  dissemble into many different parts and fields, that you really have a red thread in your presentation in the structure where you really outline to everybody who, what exactly the USP  of your concept is, and that you are able to get the attention of everybody. Take for example you have an innovation in the in the IFEC segment you know, this is a presentation where you will be able to really give an expert voting Corinne, as this is your main background. But this is to reach the finals it's not enough to just get you know the votes from the IFEC experts in the jury, you'll have to sell the concept to everyone to get enough votes to make it into the final. So, it's really about creating a structure where everybody understands your product and where you really point out what the difference or what the next step is that you've managed to achieve through this concept. And I think this is the major task already to be done if you if you look at these two points that then you're on a very good track and, lastly one category that's also very dear to me is the University category. This is the category open to the University students from around the world to enter their concepts. This category allows for much more creativity and often times also craziness, to submit and we want to encourage this, and this is a great point of entry for anybody who is still at the University level and looking to make an entry into the aviation industry. This is a wonderful way to create a presence for yourself in the aviation industry, to really have your name visible at major airlines, at major OEMs, at major suppliers in the Pax Ex industry. So, this is really a differentiator if you want to enter the aviation industry or especially the Pax Ex industry as your career then the Crystal Cabin Award, being part of the Crystal Cabin Award as a student is a fantastic way to really put a foot through the door of that industry.

[Corinne]:  I definitely agree, and I know we've had conversations in the past about the University category. It's one of my favorites to review because I feel that these students are coming in with fresh eyes, that the sky is the limit, you know, pardon the pun. It's amazing what they come up with and their vision and they're not hindered or restricted by any kind of pre- existing ideas, or you know, having worked in the industry your kind get set in a way and you understand the process and the systems and they're free from that. So, I quite enjoy reviewing those applications because your imagination runs wild. Yeah, it would be great to see you know more students at more universities worldwide participating and I think I'd mentioned this to you previously as well, you know an idea out there that it's mainly for like engineering aviation students, but I feel that with, Digital services being added to the IFEC category for example.  I feel that opens it up for a whole heap of new universities and students in Design, User Experience, outside of what traditionally would be the IFEC kind of sphere would you agree with that?

[Lukas]: Absolutely, absolutely. With other categories like Sustainable Cabin now entering you know there's another segment of the industry that you can touch on as a student. So, if you're

interested in aviation, if this is you know where you want to go, then just, I think you will find ways to create a concept that fits, and I absolutely agree that it's not about just about the engineering students it could be anybody. We've had fantastic design studies win the Crystal Cabin Award in the University category in the past as well. So, again don't be shy, just you know try it out and there's so much to gain especially as a young professional who wants to enter the

industry.

[Corinne]: Yeah, agreed! I think it's a perfect opportunity for someone wanting to come in there and really make a mark and show what they've got.  Totally agree, I’m a full supporter of it. I love the innovations it's my favorite time of year and I know it's yours as well and really looking forward to seeing

[Lukas]: Absolutely

[Corinne]: some great submissions coming in for this year. You know technology changes; you blink your eye and there's already a new version of something out. COVID, I believe, is in the rear-view mirror for all of us I hope, and people are more relaxed and thinking forward and you know looking to positive future so it's going to be very interesting to see what comes in this year, I think.

[Lukas]: Yes, absolutely. It's developing so quickly, and new focal points are moving

in and I think this is really the first year where we get to see where the industry is heading after the pandemic phase. So, I think this is really interesting to follow along and I'm very excited to see the entries that are coming this year.

[Corinne]: Excellent thanks for that. So, I’m just going to kind of shift gears you know and let's talk about some travel. We're all in this business because we love to travel, we love to explore, or we love… 

[Lukas]: Absolutely {Chuckles}

[Corinne]: We love all things aviation and all of that, so you know I do want to kind of share some insights and experiences with the audience and you know some of your favorite places to visit. So, I've got some questions here. I'll run through quite quickly. First of all, what is your

favorite aircraft type, if you have one?

[Lukas]: I do it's the A350

[Corinne]: Really, okay.

[Lukas]: Yes, especially on the long-haul segment. I'm somebody who really does feel the difference in jet lag and being rested upon arrival because of the CFRP fuselage that allows for different cabin air and also the width of the fuselage is I think very nice and comfortable for passengers in all classes even in the Economy. So, I think this is a really great aircraft that Airbus has produced there. I also like the Dreamliner of course but coming from Hamburg, of course more inclined to… { Chuckles}

[Corinne]: {Chuckles} Totally understand. I mean for me you know, I love the 787-10 because that brings back memories for me. 

[Lukas]: Yeah, I bet. 

[Corinne]: I worked really hard on it for many years so, but you know, I tend to like them all, particularly the front part if I can get in there.

[Lukas]: Oh yes

[Corinne]: But thanks for sharing that. So can I ask you know you just touched on something quite interesting that you tend to suffer from jet lag you mentioned. Do you have any quick tips how do you kind of prepare for a long, hard trip and how do you kind of try to counter the effects of jet lag? 

[Lukas]: I really try to create a scenario where I can minimize jet lag, even planning to travel. So, for example, if I'm traveling from the USA west coast to Europe for example, I try to make a flight that goes non-stop up to Europe, so no late-night change in Chicago or New York or wherever else, so that you can really get onboard and get to rest as soon as possible. And I try to catch a flight that departs later in the day, so that is, more aligned with the cardiac or the biological clock.

[Corinne]: Oh, the Circadian rhythms?

[Lukas]: Yes, Circadian rhythms, thank you. And then also as mentioned I try to find flights actually that are either Dreamliner or A350 operated, to really have this difference in cabin air, because I really think that there is a difference to be felt. I always have the feeling that I leave these aircraft more rested and with a little less jet lag than others. So, these are the kinds of tricks that I am trying to follow.

[Corinne]: Sounds like a lot of planning and you know it seems to work for you. So, I guess you know I was going to ask you what do you like to do inflight, would the answer be sleep then?  Or out of curiosity, is it sleep? Do you like to watch movies, listen to music? Do you read? Watch the map?

[Lukas]: Yeah, so I love to look at the map of course, you know, I’m the aviation geek, that I am and still fascinated by the industry. Especially if I'm able to look outside you know and we're not flying over water, so I always love to compare okay, where are we right now, what you can see below. Other than that, as mentioned, especially when flying over night I always try to sleep a little also on the way back flying westwards on long-haul. And then I really also like to just read a book or magazines inflight because I do think - it's one of the times I actually have time to do that, even more than at home.  To me personally it relaxes me a lot more than just binge-watching movies all through the flight. I know there are people who are like this as well. And yes, if there is some time if I'm rested, I also like to get some work done because on an aircraft it's to me, it's also good atmosphere to really deep dive into topics, get some writing done or just some strategic thoughts aligned and it really helps to, you know, look outside and see the sky and the clouds to reshuffle your mind.

[Corinne]: You know I have to agree with you on that one. You know I find at 30K feet I get a lot of my inspiration for the different projects that I might be working on or if I’m working on a specific project or troubleshooting, I really really focus. There's something about 30K feet that does that for me, so I guess I'm not alone. So, I guess you're not one to watch movies and go through the whole library or any of that, more focused on being productive. So, I have to ask the question as you know I love all things IFEC, do you frequently connect to inflight Wi-Fi?

[Lukas]: I do sometimes, but it's really - so most of my flights are within or from Europe and I've had the experience that, especially on short-haul, I don't need the Wi-Fi because I actually enjoy being offline for an hour or so that we have got the focus point. It's a different story when I'm flying long-haul especially to the U.S which I've done quite frequently now in the past but there I've had the impression that a lot of times the quality is not that sufficient to really get work done. So maybe it was just the provider. I think you’re much more the expert in that than me, but I've had a couple of times where I purchased a Wi-Fi pass on a long-haul flight and then ended up not being really able to use it because the quality, the bandwidth was not high enough to really get work done.

[Corinne]: Yeah. Reliability has been quite an issue. As you know I've flown quite a bit this year and tried all the various systems and I've been writing about it on LinkedIn and blogging and all of that. You know, I think there's definitely room for improvement. There's a lot happening in that space, and I can sit here and talk for probably you know five hours about it, but I won’t. But I do agree with you, I still feel reliability is still a key issue. It is getting better but it can be quite ‘Hit and miss’ as well, depending where you're flying who you're fly what the provider is 

[Lukas]: Absolutely

[Corinne]: But yeah, there is a lot happening in that space and I think a lot of work is going towards making it reliable and new technology is coming out so interesting to see what happens there. But thank you for sharing that.

[Lukas]: So again, there you know, there is potential if any of the listeners have a good idea on how to improve this or are working on something cool, please submit it to the Crystal Cabin Awards. The IFEC and Digital services category is waiting for you, {Chuckles}

[Corinne]: Absolutely yes, yes, we want to know about it. For sure, for sure. Specifically, you know in terms of speed, performance, and reliability there is so much I think that can be done there.  And I know by saying this I'm probably going to start getting threats {chuckles} for saying this when this goes live, but I mean, hey let's be real, it's hit and miss. There's one provider I must admit I've flown them a few times the reliability has been good. But I did message them and said you know, “Don’t get too excited, reliability is about having it continuously perform at an acceptable level on all the flights.” So, I think it's not there yet to be able to do that but hopefully they'll get there soon.

[Lukas]: Yes 

[Corinne]: In terms of the onboard experience, you obviously travel a lot short-haul and I know Europe is a different experience flying around Europe as it would be internationally. On your recent travels has there been an experience on an airline, something that has caught your attention whether it be you know, entertainment, food, service, cabin you know seats, amenities, anything like that, something that you thought ‘Wow’ that was really good? You know something if you want to give an airline a pat on the back just one feature that stood out?  I think what's really great is that you know we talk about you know there's a lot of stuff you read about online about what they didn't do and what they missed, fell short of doing but I think there is some great stuff happening out there and have you experienced something that surprised you from a particular carrier that you thought was really great?

[Lukas]: There was.  Yeah, and it's not cabin related though I have to say but I really had a positive surprise flying back from Austin to Munich earlier this year on United.

[Corinne]: Oh!

[Lukas]: Through Chicago. I didn't really realize it when I did the booking, but I had like a 55-minute connection at O’Hare and at check-in I realized this and it was like ‘this is never going to happen’ you know and I pictured myself checking into some you know, mediocre airport hotel at O’Hare and trying to figure out where to have dinner in Chicago that night. But I actually was able to really smoothly and seamlessly transition, even though I had to change terminals. You know we landed on time from Austin, and I just moved terminals. I was able to just continue right into the boarding process and there was on my flight to Munich, and I thought like ‘Wow this is a really really good’. I never expected this to happen so seamlessly and with all the horror stories that we have also experienced in our industry this year…

[Corinne]: Yes

[Lukas]: …and luggage - my luggage made it as well, so it was all good and I was really positively surprised that this kind of experience still happens even at such major hubs like Chicago O’Hare.  And I was really happy that this went so smooth and seamlessly, so I have to give kudos here to United Airlines because that was really travel-wise, this was the highlight of my year.

[Corinne]: Wow, well done United. Yeah, that's {chuckles}, I wasn't expecting you to answer - to give that kind of response but yeah glad to hear that that went really well for you. You know it's these experiences you know there's so much as you said O’Hare, I used to live out that way, I used to travel through there it's just like crazy and you know when things go well, they go really really well, and I think it's a great opportunity to give the guys at United a pat on the back for that …

[Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: …in the operations and getting you to where you need to be and your luggage arriving on time.

[Lukas]: Absolutely and it's also part of the passenger experience you know it's not only the cabin but as a passenger I'm looking at the whole customer journey so and it doesn't help if I have a great cabin on the flight to O’Hare when the entire time I'm sitting like, biting my nails like, oh my God I'm not going to make this am I. So, I think it's really good to be able to deliver this part of the product reliably as well - at least that day they were able to.

[Corinne]: It doesn't happen all the time. I'm not going to name names, when I came back from Hamburg my suitcase went on a vacation for about ten days 

[Lukas]: {Chuckles}

[Corinne]: before I got to see it again. That was around, you know that was around June, and we were at AIX. 

[Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: And I know there are a lot of issues affecting the industry you know it's been well documented I'm not going to you know go into it here but from what I've heard lately those things are starting to improve. You know in the United States we just recently had that Thanksgiving holiday and I think there was a lot of travel haven't heard anything bad coming out of that things have seemed gone pretty smoothly so let hope you know things are picking up coming out of COVID. It's the worst thing I think that any of us in our lifetimes have experienced in I think we need to be realistic with our expectations. 

[Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: And I do want to you know to all our friends in the industry - it's not easy. We might make it look funny and easy and glamorous but it's a lot of hard work, and the effort that goes into getting a passenger from their origin to their destination, it's not until I think you're work in the industry that you realize how complex it is and that you appreciate the people

[Lukas]: Absolutely.

[Corinne]: that do it day in and day out with a smile on their face you know - and hey we all have bad days from time to time but we're there because we love it, and our goal is to get you there in the best possible way.   My last question before we wrap it up so you're coming to us from Hamburg. I 've had the privilege of visiting Hamburg quite a number of times, sometimes it's been short, and I haven't had time to fully enjoy everything. Like I know Hamburg has over two thousand five hundred bridges that more bridges and Venice, London and Amsterdam combined. 

[Lukas]: Yes

[Corinne]: The architecture I think it is amazing but for someone new, any of our listeners coming to Hamburg for the first time, what would you recommend they see and eat?

[Lukas]: Thank you for mentioning the bridges facts, because that's, that's something I bring up every time, just to demonstrate you know, how green and full of waterways Hamburg is. I think it's a great city just to walk through and just experience on foot because there are so many places where you can take breaks sit down look at the water look at parks, and I think it's a it's a really nice walkable city.  It feels, very very green and very laid back even though it's one of the largest cities in the European Union, but of course for that one place where you where you should definitely go and a lot of people who visit Hamburg from international places are already going there, I think by now is ‘Miniature Wonderland’ which is largest model railway in the world they even have an airport.

[Corinne]: Wow

[Lukas]: And I really advise anyone who comes to Hamburg and has a couple hours to spend to check this place out because Miniature Wonderland is really a place of its own and its fantastic project. Also, it started out as a startup two brothers who rented an old warehouse to build that model railway and at the beginning, they didn't get funding from anybody the banks laughed at them and said “Like you want to build what? No thank you!” but they were proven wrong so it's the most popular tourist destination in all of Germany I think right now the highest

[Corinne]: wow

[Lukas]: ratings on trip advisor and has been done so for many years. So Miniature Wonderland is really something you should not miss out on. And, in terms of cuisine, I think we have a really diverse scenery here in Hamburg. Really depends on where you're staying, and I think in every neighborhood and district there is some fantastic places to check out. Whether it's restaurants or bars. If you come in the summer and next year's Aircraft Interiors Expo will again be in summer, one thing that I can advise you is take the Ferry 62 to the Elba beach stop  and then if you walk down the beach there is a bar called “Strandperle” https://www.strandperle-Hamburg.de  and it means a Beach pearl. Where you can sit in the sand and have some snacks and drinks and look at the container port on the other side of the river and just watch the action going on there you know with the containers being loaded and offloaded the big vessels and especially at nights when the millions of lights are on  the other side of the of the river it's truly a spectacular scene and wonderful place to wind down the day.

[Corinne]: I do recommend a visit to Hamburg you know my first time there it was like oh my gosh this is so lovely, and I felt so comfortable I felt safe everybody was friendly and I’m definitely interested in checking out this miniature wonderland so

[Lukas]: Oh, you should!

[Corinne]: Yeah, yeah that's I’m gonna factor that into my itinerary next June when I come but and also yeah the food that it is very diverse the cuisine you know I've eaten so much good food always come back with a few extra pounds {Chuckles} from Hamburg but yeah it's just an incredible place that you to be honest with you growing up in Australia, we were kind of isolated from everyone this is going back many years and you know to travel just to really major cities but one of the highlights of my life was discovering Hamburg. It's just beautiful and what really surprised me is that in the summertime it's daylight till really late. I remember that night we're all out for dinner after the awards that Monday the judging day and we're sitting there and I'm talking away and talking away, oh the suns still up it's not late and someone says, “It's ten thirty at night” and I’m not used to that from where I come from it gets dark by about seven o'clock so yeah. That probably facilitates more of, everybody is more outdoors would you say in the summertime and till very late? 

[Lukas]: Absolutely and I think this is if the weather is nice really May and June are the perfect months to spend in Hamburg because you have so much from the day. Even if you finish work at 6 pm you still have almost 5 hours of daylight left where you can you know do whatever you want to do. And it's a really beautiful atmosphere also very early in the morning, um so it's always tough getting up early but between 5 and 6 am in summer really the city life is still more or less asleep, but the sun is really up and it's the most peaceful atmosphere you can imagine. You know this is kind of the city is still almost as under a spell the sun is up the birds are chirping but you know every everything is so so quiet, and you have the whole city for yourself with all the buildings and architecture. It’s really really beautiful you know. It's a magical time of the year so and I think this is really a special month also to have the AIX and Hamburg when we have so much daylight you know it's one of the perks of being so far up north. The downside is now in winter when it gets really really dark, and you have really little daylight that really gets you so it's best to come in summer and enjoy the pros.  

[Corinne]: It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today and you know sharing so information like Hamburg Aviation it was mind blowing as to all the activity that's going there and you encourage anybody with a passion Aviation go into the website, I'll include the links.

[Lukas]: Please do

[Corinne]: The Sustainable Aero Labs, the work that's going on there to get to Net Zero I think it's fantastic people wanting to get into that space ideas to contribute definitely to go and look up that information. And also, Crystal Cabin so very exciting times. Just a reminder to everyone listening out there that submission will be closing but all that information is available on the website, and I'll include those links as well.

[Lukas]: including the submission forms.  

[Corinne]: Yep. I will add the miniature wonderland to my holiday list for next June when I come

[Corinne]: And go check that out for sure, it sounds awesome

[Lukas]: Oh, you should, you will not regret it {Chuckles} 

[Corinne]: Great okay thanks again Lukas and really appreciate your time.

[Lukas]: Well, thanks for inviting me Corinne. It's been a pleasure being your guest.

[Corinne]: Thank you.

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