S1 Ep4 - Inflight experiences of a luxury travel YouTuber

In today’s episode, we are joined by Jeb Brooks. Jeb is the founder of GreenerGrass, a website that offers content to jetsetters who want to learn about luxury travel, the aviation industry, and globetrotting secrets.  Jeb is a popular social media, YouTube personality and travel enthusiast who has visited all seven continents of the world including 69 countries to date, providing him with a wealth of knowledge and experience that he generously shares with his followers. 

With 512 flights over the past 5 years under his belt, Jeb has been in most of the premium cabins of several airlines around the world. With first-hand experience of the onboard products and amenities in premium cabins on airlines including American, Delta, United, Singapore, Spirit, Emirates, Qatar, Korean, Air France, Qantas, and more, Jeb is going to share his passenger experiences and feedback with us at ‘On Your Flight Today’. He will also talk about which airline he believes has the best business class seat in the sky and why…and it may not be who you initially think. 

Expect to gain valuable insights from a true frequent flying customer's perspective from today’s episode, that will allow you to make more informed decisions when booking your next flight or for those who work in the industry, inspiration and learnings for improving, creating or developing your next onboard products and inflight experiences. 

When visiting Greensboro, North Carolina Jeb suggests going to what he believes is the best BBQ in town: Stameys’ Barbeque 

Download the full transcript of the episode - Coming soon!

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This episode of On Your Flight Today is brought to you by IFECtiv, an inflight entertainment and connectivity consulting company. Dedicated to elevating the aviation industry's inflight entertainment products and experiences for airlines and suppliers. Visit www.IFECtiv.aero to learn more!

To sponsor an episode or advertise on the On Your Flight Today podcast, visit the show website: www.onyourflighttoday.com 

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Transcript

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. Even though it has been reviewed by a human, it may contain errors. Please review the audio for the episode and use that as the guide before quoting from this episode or transcript. This text may not be published online or distributed without written permission. Feel free to contact the team at ‘On your flight today’ with any questions.

On Your Flight Today – Season 1, Episode 4 

Recorded: Jan 2023 | Live Date: Mar 2023

Host: Corinne Streichert

Guest: Jeb Brooks, Founder of GreenerGrass 

 [Corinne]: Jeb, thank you very much for joining us today. How are you doing?

[Jeb]: I am well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

[Corinne]: Me too. Me too. So, you're coming to us from Greensboro, North Carolina, is that correct?

[Jeb]: That is correct. One of the garden places of the world.

[Corinne]: Aha. I have never been to Greensboro. I've never been to North Carolina. I've been many places in the US. What can you tell me about it? What's it like out there and what's the climate like at the moment?

[Jeb]: Greensboro, North Carolina is a great kind of mid-tier US city. We've got about 300,000 - 400,000 people living here and could use a little bit more air service. So, if any of your listeners are route planners or anything like that, we would love some more service. But Greensboro is great. We're a nice small town, easy to get around with, ready access to the mountains and to the coast. It's a it's a beautiful place to be. It's a little chilly right now, but, you know, you can always warm up with a blanket and a warm beverage.

[Corinne]: I think it's a bit chilly all around the US at the moment, even though I'm in Las Vegas and I'm usually melting in the summer months, it's just been pretty cold. But again, thank you for joining us. As a founder of Greener Grass, you've been doing incredible videos that you're posting online. So obviously you spend a lot of time in the air. And just to clarify, I think one of the reasons why I was really excited to have you on the show, you've never worked for an airline, so you're coming to us as a passenger, as a consumer of those products and services. And I think that input and that feedback is going to be incredibly valuable to the listeners and anyone interested in obviously aircraft interiors, in-flight entertainment, and the whole passenger experience. So, what I'd like to start off with… So you've traveled everywhere. You've been everywhere and well, almost everywhere. And I know you've recently you've been somewhere very exciting, but I'm not going to spoil that because I know you're waiting to release some videos on that trip. So am I allowed to say where you went?

[Jeb]: You can go ahead and say, because it's coming, it's coming fast. Yeah, that video will be out soon.

[Corinne]: You were in the South Pole.

[Jeb]: I made it to the South Pole. I still.. when I say that out loud, I can't, I can't believe it happened. It's such a hard place to reach and required some crazy aviation to make happen. But I did. I ran around the world at the South Pole.

[Corinne]: Wow. Obviously quite an experience. And I don't want to steal your thunder, so I'll be waiting for that video. But okay, let's talk about in-flight passenger experiences. So, you've flown on many carriers around the world. You've experienced, obviously, the whole end to end passenger experience. You know, you book your ticket, the ground lounges and on board. Are there any areas where you feel that there could be some more improvement and focus, particularly in the post-COVID world?

[Jeb]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to remember all of this is happening inside a metal tube traveling at 500 miles an hour over, you know, tens of thousands of feet in the air. And I think it's easy for passengers to forget the miracle that's happening. Right. So I think that that any feedback, positive, negative, neutral has to be in that context of just how crazy it is that it happens at all. But in general, look, the trend is to differentiate, at least, you know, talking about being regional, but at least in the West, in the US is to differentiate through the passenger experience. And I think there are a lot of positive changes that are happening there. You know, I'm sure that you're almost tired of talking about Delta's move to make Wi-Fi free. And I think that's, that's a really cool example. You know, I got the chance to interview Ed Bastian, the CEO, several years ago now for our YouTube channel. And he was talking about that, wanting to move in that direction because Wi-fi is free in so many places. And he wanted to to he was really, you know, had a vision for that. And it's cool to see that come, come to be. I also am a firm believer in the value of seatback entertainment. I know that there are a lot of airlines that are moving toward streaming services, but as a, as a passenger who is often working on an airplane, having the opportunity to use my tray table to have my laptop open, jam out some work while also being distracted because I'm like so many people, I need a lot of stimulation coming my way. You know, I think there's value in that. And in general, I think when it comes to seatback entertainment, the importance of having a screen that functions, meaning if it is a screen that I'm going to be pressing, I'm going to be engaging with, there's no remote that needs to work well, and that's that's a that's a place where I've seen a lot of airlines fall apart. And I go back to my original point, which is it's a miracle its happening at all. And what we often forget as passengers is we're just one user. Right. But that that that piece of equipment is used is being used multiple times a day, you know, by many passengers we won't see. And so the wear and tear on this equipment is has got to be a complicated component of this that so many of you and your colleagues have to think about, that we as passengers don't. And so if it doesn't work for us. We're upset. But the reality is we're just one of many people using it. So anyway, I think that that would be in general, I like the trend toward differentiating an airline experience through the passenger experience specifically, IFE and we're talking about Wi-Fi, but I think in general, those pieces of equipment have to be so much more robust than just about anything else. And I think we kind of sometimes can forget that.

[Corinne]: Really interesting in some of your videos, in particular, the one you did recently, I believe towards the end of 2022, where you did a comparison of United, American and Delta all in one day with with Suzanne and quoting you from there, you actually did say seatback IFE is heads and shoulders above any streaming option. So, you're a fan. So I guess you're very pleased to hear United announce they're going fleet wide across the domestic fleet with Seatback IFE which they're they're rolling out Delta already has it. American I believe is standing firm. For passenger experience, I think it can definitely make a difference. But the maintenance of it…

[Jeb]: and the weight. I mean, there's no there's no doubt about it. I can certainly see that argument. I'm like so many passengers, it's entertain me, you know, engage me your responsibility. So I completely get the challenges of it. And I respect that. That was one thing I noticed during COVID. I wasn't traveling a lot, but I certainly saw the purely from my seat what appeared to be the process of getting content onto and off of IFE that looked to be an area where airlines were able to save, save some money by licensing less content. And I sort of also noticed on the back end, whatever that means of COVID, it ratcheted up so there was more content available on these on these systems. So, it was interesting to see. You know, I'm sure licensing is part of it, but also just uploading the content to the thing. It's not like you can snap your fingers and everything's there. That was that was super interesting to watch.

[Corinne]: I just wanted to touch on one thing that you said because just for our listeners out there, I think we first connected, when I saw a video you had done on JetBlue, you're flying their Mint product and they had the personalization on the seatback screen with your name and but they also had an inoperable handset. Is that something that you have seen to be quite common internationally as well, or was it just probably just a few airlines that just didn't get it right, that you noticed it more?

[Jeb]: Well, actually, a couple of things on that. First of all, the Mint product did have personalization on the seat or the IFE, which was cool, but my name wasn't Zachary, so it wasn't quite right, which was too bad to see. Yeah. And so and that's like, you know, an airline pours so much effort into these, these things and then just your one degree off. So maybe the passenger before me was named Zachary, the passenger after his name is Zachary. The passenger across the aisle was named Zachary. I don't know. But it's like it's like all this effort and work and it's just, it just missed, which was too bad. That's that's kind of sad to see in a way. But, yeah, I've seen there have been a handful of times I've seen a handset that doesn't work. And, you know, that's a... But I think what's more common is the  touch screen that doesn't work because it gets used so much that that you can't you can't make it work. And that's extremely frustrating.

[Corinne]: It's not responsive?

[Jeb]: Yeah, no, it's like it's been pressed too much in one spot, you know, and so it's just the touch screen function is dead. And that's extremely frustrating because you can see what you want and you just can't can't make it work. That happened to me just the other day on an airline. It's that's really frustrating.

[Corinne]: Was it an older aircraft?

[Jeb]: This is constructive feedback, the American Airlines A321T that they use Transcon for their first-class product which of course they've announced is going away. So not a lot of reason to refresh the experience but I've flown in that now four times and this is the third time that that screen has not, has not worked. So I think it's a systemic problem that is not worth paying attention to because they're retiring the fleet.

[Corinne]: Kind of makes sense if it's the one that I'm thinking. Obviously, I don't know their fleet as well as I know some other fleets, but I think it is a very old product. And those monitors back in those days were the resistive ones and you really had to kind of you can't swipe on it, you have to like touch. And so that's obviously probably why they're retiring that as well. So in terms of handsets and stuff like that, a lot of work goes into mapping that, that whole experience just to kind of let you know how that happens. And it is critical, especially in a premium cabin where you're not close to the screen, you need that to really be mapped correctly and to function correctly. And some airlines seem to compromise on that. And I think that's what we saw in your JetBlue video that it was so soon after they had launched their product, and I think they probably never got to it.

[Jeb]: That's that's super interesting and that makes a ton of sense. So, like let's let's get the product out. Let's let's get the plane flying. I did fly that relatively early in it's in its release. And so mapping the handset would be one of the last things to do. And let's just put it off. That makes that makes sense. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense that that would be why that didn't work. Maybe.

[Corinne]: Well, it's actually not one of the last things to do. It's probably it's all part of the initial planning. You know, I was involved in a three IFE project and the planning for the handset was done from day one when we were planning the design, the experience and everything like that. And it's quite complex. But until your design is locked down, you can't finalize it. When you're getting a new aircraft delivered, you've got a date, that plane is coming, right. And you have to be ready. Or if you're not ready, you need a backup plan to be ready. And then once you receive the aircraft, you might get about 30 days, maybe 40 days, where you could squeeze in a software update if you're working to fix last minute bugs. So, you can't kind of say, no, we're not ready, wait for our handset to be mapped before that plane comes. That is not an option. So, it's actually really exciting. And, you know, you probably know people in the industry, but doing a new aircraft delivery, especially coming out with a new IFE system where you've got the handset and all of that, I'm assuming they got to a point where they just had to let it go. They couldn't get to it for whatever reason and issues they may have encountered before that plane arrive, they probably started working on a fix for that and a plan to roll that out soon after, maybe the second aircraft. So that's kind of how that works.

[Jeb]: That's so cool. It is just fascinating to hear all these behind-the-scenes stories. And again, I go back to it. If passengers had 2% glimpse into the complexity that goes into the miracle that is flight, I think that long lines at security or the occasional delay or whatever would would just be a lot less stressful because like what you and your colleagues across the industry do is I mean, make miracles happen. It's crazy to me that any of this works, let alone to your point. I can just press a button and suddenly I'm connected to the world via Wi-Fi from an airplane. This is unbelievable!

[Corinne]: But obviously smaller flights it's a lot easier, but as soon as you start growing and start getting that diverseness in the the hardware and the software, that adds more complexity.

[Jeb]: I use a tongue in cheek rating system jokingly called the [Jeb] Score to sort of compare airlines. And and the reason I do that is to give people a sense of what they're getting. Right. Very few airlines are perfect, right? So it depends on what is important to a particular passenger. Right. So, there might be somebody who, you know, is a foodie and they want really good food. And there are airlines that do that really well. And there are airlines that execute service perfectly and beautifully. And that's about that's down to training and hiring. Right. And there are other airlines that do do it really well. And so I think it depends on on what a particular passenger wants. It's down. To each airline what they emphasize. And down to region too, I mean, it's a very different experience flying in Africa than it is in Australia or in the US or Asia and or Antarctica, for that matter. And so it all it all depends. In general, I think that as long as we're really kind of more focused on IFE, I think that the user experience, emphasis on the simplicity of that is an area where I think a lot of airlines could benefit from spending a little bit more time.

[Corinne]: Okay. Interesting to know. That's great feedback. You know, I think it's a good segue into regional differences. So as you just mentioned, it's different flying in Africa, Europe, Australia, Oceana area, Americas, when you're looking at it from a regional perspective, are some regions better at some things than others, or have you found it's just really down to the airline?

[Jeb]: To me, it's it comes down to a subtle difference, which is is the airline primarily a domestic carrier or primarily an international long-haul carrier? And so airlines that tend to focus on their long haul experience, I think generally tend to be a little bit more passenger focused, passenger experience focused than airlines that are primarily domestic. So, take Singapore Airlines versus I mean, just pick a US carrier. 

[Corinne]: Spirit. I know Spirit was your worst experience of 2022.

[Corinne]: But it wasn’t the experience. Was it? It was the delays.

[Jeb]: It was the delay. It was the delay. And that's that's very fair. Well, but I mean, that's actually a that's a great comparison. On the surface, it sounds, it sounds strange, but Singapore versus Spirit. Spirit Airlines promises something very different to Singapore, and there's nothing wrong with that. But what you're going to get, I mean, obviously there's pricing and all of that, but just take all that off the table. Singapore is going to be a more passenger amenity focused, glamorous experience than is Spirit that comes down to a lot of factors. But I don't know that that's necessarily regional. It's just like what the what the airline promises, the brand promise of each of those, each of those companies.

[Corinne]: But going back to your Singapore spirit. So, you know, and you've got the Middle East full service premium airlines Spirit positions himself as an ultra-low cost carrier. But I must admit, in 2022 I flew their Big Front Seat, and I think you did as well. And when I compared it to the domestic first-class product of the full service airlines, it was really hard to spot the difference. So, I feel the lines are getting blurred. Given the flying that you've done, do you feel there's some blurring of the lines, particularly within the US? I mean, fair enough, I can't recline four inches, but will I pay an extra 200 bucks to recline four inches?

[Jeb]: Yeah, no, I think that's right. And I mean, to your point about reclining, I don't even on a domestic flight, I'm very unlikely to recline. Yeah. I think that's I think that's well put. I think the lines are blurring. Yeah. I, I can't disagree with you. The lines are blurring. I mean, I think that's very fair.

[Corinne]: Taking Qatar is an example. So, you've flown there various aircraft, but do you agree with me, they seem to be, with the exception, obviously, the seat. And you had different aircraft to deliver at different times with different product. But overall, would you agree that that experience is consistent across the different product and different aircraft, more so than what you would see on other carriers that might have that diverse fleet?

[Jeb]: Yeah, I think that's that's very fair. I think Qatar is consistent and I think so much of that comes down to so much of that is about the crew. Hiring and training I think is really important there. But the seat look, I think the Qatar, the Qsuite is magnificent. I'm going to say something that you might disagree with, and I totally respect it. I actually like the Qantas business class seat better.

[Corinne]: Which aircraft?

[Jeb]: Dreamliner. You know, the reason I say that, though I said this in we recently flew from Sydney to Dallas and I said that I think it's the best business class seat in the sky. And a lot of people responded saying “What about the Q suite?”, and that's fair. I think Qsuite is beautiful, it's wonderful, it's great, it's comfortable, it's got but there's just the storage. Storage, you know, is something in seats that I don't think gets enough attention, but particularly for a passenger who has on a long-haul flight who wants to do multiple things. And what does that mean? Well, I want to eat. I want to get some work done. I want to watch some entertainment. Ready access to my stuff that I need to do those things is really important. And I think that comes down to storage and not in the overhead bin, but accessible storage to me as I'm sitting there in the seat. And I think I think Qantas does a nice job, a great job of of that. And again, not a knock against Qsuite because Qsuite is magnificent. I just really like the accessible storage that Qantas provides.

[Corinne]: Okay, I'm not familiar with that particular seat. I've flown them years ago. There's 747, but most recently the A330 from Shanghai to Sydney. I was really impressed with the blanket, but it was really kind of light, yet it kept you warm.

[Jeb]: On the topic of blankets. Let's let's not let it let the conversation go by without talking about the United Airlines gel pillow. Which is like the greatest thing ever. The cool side of the pillow. No matter what you do, I love that thing.

[Corinne]: I only ever had positive feedback about it. Everybody loves a gel pillow and I think they're the only ones doing it.

[Jeb]: Which I don't understand. But I, you know, more on storage, I think, like if you think about. Well, there are two two aspects to this. On the one hand, the anxiety that so many passengers feel at the gate is around storage. Will I have somewhere to put my bag? You know, will will the overheads be full by the time I get to board? You know, there's the the frequent flyer term ‘Gate lice’. And the reason that so many people are standing around the gate anxious is that will I have space for my bag. Then when you're actually on your way, there are so many things that people will want to have access to, especially on a long-haul flight, but even a short haul one to, to pass the time. Or if they're working, they want access to their, their laptop or whatever. And so, you know, making that easy to, to have a place to put everything is really important. And then the third thing that I think I wish seat manufacturers would think a little bit more about, too, although I'm sure they're thinking about it, is at the end of the flight, how can I quickly look for things? There's so much anxiety around people who leave things behind. Right. So,so how do you make it really easy to just scan the seat and see if what I've left behind? I think those three kind of areas of travel anxiety that that I know a lot of people feel me included really is around storage.

[Corinne]: Oh, interesting. Do you feel that that anxiety at the gate, particularly about will I have room for my bag in the overhead storage, is that more of an economy kind of anxiety as opposed to business? Because usually internationally business, they'll give you all the room in the world to put your bags up up there. But economy is obviously it's particularly domestically in the US, you can be fighting for that.

[Jeb]: Yeah, I mean I think that's very fair and however not as much long-haul where you've got that space sort of reserved but if I'm the last first-class passenger you know, to board, well I'm going to have to swim upstream to find a place for my bag further back. And the challenges associated with that, particularly when it's time to get off the plane, if I have a tight connection, say, you know, I'm really talking domestically now, that's anxiety. That's a real challenge to sort of where you're losing the benefit you had by, by booking that that seat more forward in the cabin.

[Corinne]: Yeah. No It’s known as ‘Gate lice’, I did not know that. {laugh}

[Jeb]: It's not, not the nicest term, but you know, you've seen it. It's everybody gathered right there. And then particularly when you have terminals that are that are undersized and they flow out into the into the the passageway. And so the whole room is not big enough.

[Corinne]: So I guess something that I've been really interested in lately and been doing a lot of research and I've been talking to a lot of airlines all around the world. Every country has its own culture, and they try to reflect that in their product and service onboard the aircraft. Have you found any particular airline that really has taken advantage of the richness and beauty of their culture and incorporated that into any of their onboard products?

[Jeb]: What comes to mind, first and foremost is Air France, and they're, especially their first class experience, but also the business class. I think they do a really nice job of highlighting French culture, particularly with their menus. And I love what you've described, which is airlines more broadly highlighting their culture, because people often ask me, what's your favorite airline? And my answer to that question is always the flag carrier of wherever I'm going. I want to feel like I'm there as soon as I step on the plane. And, so many airlines do that well, But I just I think Air France is perhaps the most obvious to me. Like it's I am I am in France as soon as I step on one of their airplanes.

[Corinne]: I haven't flown them, I think, in years before I think they even had IFE. But out of curiosity, you know, when you picture Paris and you picture the Eiffel Tower and that French kind of sounding music and that smell of hot bread, is that what that is, that feeling evoked when you get on board?

[Jeb]: Yeah. Look, confession time. France is not my favorite country, you know, not a knock against it. It's just a preference thing. But it is a cool country. And everything about Air France exudes that sort of coolness. I even think about their safety video, which is probably one of my favorites. And it just, it feels very, it just feels very France, you know, it feels very French.

[Corinne]: So, you think they're doing it the best, embodying their culture in their product?

[Jeb]: I do. But then I go back I go back to Qantas. I mean, the Qantas boarding music is on repeat. It's my most listened to song on Spotify. I just I think there's that and then, you know, “We still call Australia home”. Are you kidding me? I mean I tear up when I hear that. And so, my favorite airline is wherever I'm going internationally, like just get me in, get me in that feeling immediately, but I've got to give the award to Air France on that. I think it's time to fly Air France again real soon.

[Corinne]: When I flew Qatar, for example, I found the menu to be very typical of that region and that culture. And it was interesting to try. And what I think when I saw you fly your menu was very similar to what I had as well. Some of that cuisine, that Arabian cuisine, and it was quite tasty as well. And I thought they did that quite well. But I didn't feel the culture in like the soft product, you know, like in the blankets or anything. It was more about wealth and opulence, I think, than the actual culture itself.

[Jeb]: Well, and I think that's what the Middle East three are attempting to reflect. And I think they do it very well. And I think that's you know, that's what they market. That's the experience that you'll have when you're onboard. And I think that's great. Other airlines, you know, I'm thinking about European flag carriers, they reflect their culture, you know, And so we were talking about Air France. They do a great job of it. Lufthansa does the same thing. It's a very German feeling experience. And I think that's great. British Airways. I think that's great. And you get I mean, we were talking about Finnair. So, another great example. I mean, what could be more Scandinavian than than sort of that that aesthetic that that they bring? And I shared in a video how much I love the glasses on Finnair. 

[Corinne]: The Ultima Thule, yes.

[Jeb]: Yes, that's yes. And and I think that is one of the best examples of something that. Most passengers don't even give a second thought to, that is so on brand and such a subtle and really cool way to reflect a country in the air.

[Corinne]: But it is. It is. I think it really embodies that Nordic feel. And they've done that very, very well. And I think they set out to do this with their new product. So, what about Asia? Do you find anyone in that region really reflecting that Asian feel?

[Jeb]: Yeah. Mmm. You know who's who is an underrated airline at least sort of in in the world of YouTube is Korean.

[Corinne]: Hmm.

[Jeb]: And I think they do such a nice job. I mean, what a beautiful cabin. Such a light, like feeling. Everything just feels light. And, you know, it's an example of an airline that really does another great example of reflecting the culture. I love Singapore. And, you know, I think about those the uniforms and sort of what they're doing. But Singapore is just kind of in a league of its own in a lot of ways. I think of Singapore more like a Middle East three airline than I do anything else. But Korean Air is so lovely. Like it's a weird word to use for me, but I think that's just the right, the right one. It was just such a nice experience. I mean, yeah, they're one of the only three airlines to have scored perfectly on the [Jeb] score, the unscientific [Jeb] scored notably.

[Corinne]: Which region in the world would you say you think is really leading the pack?

[Jeb]: I think it's the Middle East. And I mean, and there is a lot of reasons for that. And some of them are political, some of them are cultural, like whatever those reasons are. But just purely from a passenger standpoint, you can't argue with that. That said, Singapore is is spectacular. And to me, what they have in common is the concept of you've said it consistency. Airlines in the United States aren’t quite as consistent. There are a lot of reasons for it. And again, I mean, it's it's they're political reasons, there are cultural reasons. There are tons of reasons that we could get into. When money doesn't really matter, you can you can do different things. I mean, so I think that that's that's certainly a play. {laugh}

[Corinne]: It's funny you say that. You just made me remember a memory from just, you know, probably a couple of years ago some people used to say, ‘Corinne, can we do this?’ And I actually used to say, “I can do anything with time and money”. Right? But I didn't have the money and I did have the time, especially when aircraft were on their way. But yeah, you're right.

[Jeb]: But if you're if you're one of these people in the in the Middle East who own an airline and you're really just trying to show off what you can do. Money doesn't matter because that's not the motivation. Right. And I think that's like the I don't want to call it the best kept secret, but that's the reality of those Middle East carriers is what's happening there, which is really like from a passenger experience standpoint, pretty spectacular.

[Corinne]: Yeah. And I think if someone hasn't had the opportunity to fly those carriers or even out in Asia and experience it. So you've just flown domestically within the US, you might have gone down to Mexico or up to Canada. You really haven't seen the full potential of what that cabin can do and that experience can do for you.

[Jeb]: It's mind blowing. I mean, but again, so to as we were saying earlier, so too is a Spirit Airlines experience like it doesn't, the fact that anything other than like a bench seat with a seat belt exists in these airplanes, that's that's what keeps me coming back.

[Corinne]: You know, with Spirit, I've had some really great experiences on their Big Front Seat, but I fly them a lot from Las Vegas to Orange County. And also, like I said, I don't need to recline four inches, but for a 45-50 minute flight, it really meets my needs. I need to get there. I need to get there quickly. I don't need all the fluff to go with it. So, I'm not going to pay double or triple to get a free cup of coffee and a free snack and a seat that can recline four inches. Whereas when I'm traveling across the US, obviously I'll look to another carrier. So from my experiences I'm finding as someone that does travel and signed to travel a lot again is that I wouldn't say that I'm loyal to any particular airline. It would really be what airline is going to meet my needs and suit our purposes. Like we're flying breeze only because they go direct to Syracuse from Las Vegas. But I think for me and I don't know if that's happening to others out there and it could be more in terms of is it convenient to suit your agenda or your itinerary to fly another airline as opposed to being loyal?

[Jeb]: I think you're right. And I think loyalty has shifted a great deal in post-COVID world that we're in. I think that that's become less of a factor, particularly as airlines have made it easier to cancel and change flights. I do think loyalty is not quite the same. And if I were in an airline loyalty program or working in that space, I would have a lot of question marks around what that looks like.

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[Corinne]: So, [Jeb], tell me more about content creation. Obviously, you've had a lot of success doing it.

[Jeb]: Content creation is incredibly fulfilling. I think that's the first thing to say. And it's worth remarking about the fact that I started doing this because I love aviation and travel, and I've continued to do it because I've also discovered that I love the process of content creation. I was talking to a friend of mine whose young daughter has a dream of becoming a YouTuber when she grows up because she sees that as a really easy job and a lot of fun and fulfilling. And it is fun and fulfilling, but it ain't easy. There's a lot that goes into it behind-the-scenes that folks don't see. There's not only the editing process, which of course you understand as a podcaster. There is the producing videos. So often I work with airports or even airlines to do behind-the-scenes work. And as you can imagine, there are a lot of permissions that have to be gotten, a lot of a lot of processes that have to be followed and forms that have to be filled out for understandable reasons. Well, all of that takes time and energy and effort and coordination. So, it's not as though it's just turning your camera on and go. So, there's a lot of work that goes into it, but I love that that's been some of the most fulfilling aspects of this of this work. And I have a philosophy on this, which is we we attract what we put out and we tend to focus on the positives and we tend to, Suzanne and I feel a lot of gratitude for what it is we get to do. And sharing that on YouTube kind of creates an environment in a community of folks who feel the same way. So, we tend to…Sure, there are certainly haters out there, but they tend to kind of go away. They vote with their feet. If you really don't like a creator, a particular creator, you tend not to watch their videos. At least that's our experience. So, they kind of like just disappear. People who recognize the two of us and that is incredibly flattering to get stopped for a selfie, that that seems to be a much more popular way of of engaging with us than asking for an autograph or anything like that. So that's always a lot of fun. And the best part about that is this is a relatively independent profession. As much as we are putting ourselves out there on camera and smiling and having fun on camera and being out there. It tends to be pretty isolated. You know, it's not like we get to engage with our viewers that often, you know, like in an interactive way. And any time somebody stops and says they enjoy watching the videos and asking questions, it's a lot of fun because it's an opportunity to really understand what they enjoy about what we do, which helps inform what we do next. So yeah, the content creation part of this, as much as aviation and transportation and the passenger experience, have inspired me to start this channel, it's all that other stuff that have allowed me to have motivated me to continue the channel.

[Corinne]: People spend money. You want to give them that insight to help them make better informed decisions. On that note, I wanted to ask you. Obviously, you fly a lot. You see the real product, you know, warts and all, when you're on the different aircraft. In your opinion, and again, this may vary by region. do you feel there's a big disconnect between what the airline is marketing and how they market it and how the reality is?

[Jeb]: Wow, That's a big question, man. That's a big question. And I mean, the easy answer is it depends. But I think that there's an advantage that airlines have. In that, in most airlines, everybody uses the product. So, if you think about a lot of companies, their marketing department may not ever use what it is they're marketing. It's an abstraction. But because of flight benefits, everybody who works at an airline uses the product pretty regularly in various and sundry ways. So I think that helps. That said, there certainly can be times where, I mean, you'll see these things that go viral. I keep thinking about food, for example. The food that's presented on the flashy website may not always look the same way that it does in the air. But generally, I think airlines do a pretty good job of making a marketing promise that is delivered in the air. 

[Corinne]: You know, just the thought that I wanted to put out there because I've noticed not not just in aviation, you know, big disconnect in marketing. It's easy to see all these glossy magazines and glossy pictures. And then when you end up at the hotel or wherever you're at, you know, it's like, what? It doesn't look like… It doesn't look like the burger in the picture.

[Jeb]: Yeah, well, you're right to point that out. And we talk about in my in my other work on the, on the board of, of, of the company that my brother and I own, we talk a lot about, in the work we do the marketing promise and its relationship to the service experience and and often companies really emphasize something to their customers that they then don't deliver on. And again, I go back to it. Oftentimes that's because the marketers don't understand the buyer. They don't understand what what it's like to sit in that seat figuratively. And the advantage that airlines have if they choose to really use it, is they're marketers, just like everybody else at these airlines has the opportunity to literally sit in the seat to use the product and see what that's like. And I think that's a real advantage. Often the flight benefit is considered, you know, hey, you know, it's hard work at an airline. It's hard to work at an airline. And this is just another reason that a lot of people go into the job. You get to fly for free. Well, I think the real advantage is your employees, understand the customer on a more deep level than a lot of companies.

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[Corinne]: Can I switch to something a little something for our listeners to get to know you better and get to know We like to understand what different people like to do in flights. So I guess I'm just going to run through a short list of questions and just off the top of your head, what is your favorite aircraft type?

[Jeb]: Okay. From the passenger experience perspective, it has to be the A350. I love the pressurization to a lower altitude, the higher humidity plus a window that I can actually open and close, as opposed to the Dreamliners, you know, electronically dimmed windows.

[Corinne]: You don’t like it?

[Jeb]:  I do not like the 787 windows.

[Corinne]: I just feel, you know, I've done a lot of work on the 787s. I just feel it just doesn't get dark enough for me.

[Jeb]: It doesn't get dark enough and it doesn't get light enough. It's like it's just not right. Plus, the heat that can come through and just cooks you. But that's one of those great debates in aviation. There are some people who love them.

[Corinne]: So, I know you're often working in flight, I mean, because that's what you do at Greener Grass. But when you're not working, what do you like to do on a long or short haul flight when it's just your time to kick back and relax? What do you do?

[Jeb]: My eye is usually glued to the window. Oh, I'm looking out the window. Yeah, Unless it's at nighttime and then maybe I'm watching a movie. But typically I'm glued out the window.

[Corinne]: So you don't want to, like, really go through the whole catalog or watch every movie, listen to every podcast, play every game. You just really like to marvel at being at 30,000 feet?

[Jeb]: Yeah, there's a good chance I'll have something on the on the IFE just kind of listening to it. Or if there's no IFE I'm typically reading a book, more often than not, my eyes are. Are out there. There's just always something to see. And even just the clouds, it's almost like fishing where you never know what you're going to see. You never know what you're going to catch.

[Corinne]: Do you find at 30,000 feet, you tend to. Does it inspire you? Do your thoughts tend to be more in depth than they would be on the ground or?

[Jeb]: I think my thoughts are always quite genius. So, I don't I don't know what's different at 30,000 feet. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, I think I think it does. There's just something amazing about the miracle that happens onboard. I mean, it wasn't too long ago that, it would be impossible to make these connections between parts of the world. It's just amazing. Not even our ancestors, a generation or two ago, people that I that I know or knew couldn't conceive of what we're able to do today thanks to the miracle of flight. So of course, it's inspiring. I could talk about this all day. One thing I've noticed in myself and I've heard this from other people too, is particularly when you're watching inflight entertainment, a movie, if there's an emotional scene, it tends to hit me harder in the air. Anyway, I don't I don't know what that is exactly, but…

[Corinne]: It is real. It is real. I wrote an article probably about a year ago that touched on that. So, there was some studies done that found that people are more sensitive and more emotional. At 30,000 feet, your emotions are heightened at altitude. There's science behind it. It was Virgin Atlantic did a study over ten years ago. And I think there's been more work since then, but it's definitely been proven scientifically that you will feel more emotion at that altitude. And it was something like 50% of people are more likely to cry in a movie than they would watching it on the ground.

[Jeb]: I've got no shame in admitting I'm in that 50%.

[Corinne]: Yeah, I am to {Laughing}

[Jeb]: I find I wouldn't it would never it would never happen on the ground at all. But, you know, the reunion scene at the end of the movie where everybody. Oh, it's just gets me.

[Corinne]: Yeah. And it's got to do with the cabin pressure. There's so many things affecting the physiology that is causing that. It was a Chrissy Teigen, the wife of a famous musician, a guy called John Legend. She had tweeted, I think, a couple of years ago, ‘Oh, why do I feel more emotional?’ And that's what kind of started a debate. And it brought up that whole research that Virgin Atlantic did a few years ago. Yeah. To say you do, you will be more emotional, like your taste buds are different as well at being at that altitude in the cabin pressure. But I think obviously the newer aircraft that are coming out, they're working on getting that cabin environment to reduce jet lag and all kinds of things. So that probably will improve over time. But it is very common to shed a few tears under your blanket when you're at 30,000 feet. It's really, really common. Aside from when you're working, do you frequently use the inflight Wi-Fi and overall, how has your experience been with the inflight Wi-Fi? There's always something going on Twitter about poor experiences. Very rarely do you hear about great ones. Just in general, what's your experience been like?

[Jeb]: It's getting better. I am almost always logged on. If it's available, I'm using it and it's getting better. And I think that, you know, you make a good point about how people are far more likely to complain than they are to praise. It's easy to criticize. Unfortunately, it's human nature that we that we tend to do that. That said. Step back from it and think about what you're doing, what's happening? Like, how can you not be amazed that it works at all, let alone like, yeah, it can be slow. But it wasn't too long ago where we looked at a flight as an opportunity to unplug. There is no way to access me for these, you know, 4 or 5, 6, 10 hours. So step back from it, folks, and realize that it's a miracle that you got access to it at all. But I would say in general, Wi-Fi in the air is getting better and it's getting better fast.

[Corinne]: Mm hmm. The way I see it, more from a product perspective, if this is part of your product offering and you'll see all the marketing and I was talking about the disconnect between reality and marketing. ‘Oh, we've got the fastest Wi-Fi,’ ‘we've got the best Wi-Fi, it's on every aircraft’, ‘blah, blah, blah’, and come and use it. And then when you fly them and you do a few flights and it's just hit and miss, you can't get connected. It keeps dropping out, they are just failing to deliver on their promise of of that product.

[Jeb]: I think that if airlines did a better job of communicating in advance of the flight that the Wi-Fi wasn't working, they would, they would set expectations a little better. It's not great. You know, it's not great that it's not working, because to your point, you know. You're making a marketing promise that you have Wi-Fi…. But if you tell me in advance, then I'm able to prepare for that experience. If you don't tell me until we take off or till we're in the air, then that's not great, right? I can't adjust my plans for that.

[Corinne]: I just want to pull this up because it's interesting that you bring up that point, and I just want to make sure I quote this correctly. Someone tweeted about that today and I went and responded, because I just couldn't help not put my 2 cents in. A guy called Zach Griff, who works for The Points Guy. You heard of The Points Guy?

[Jeb]: Zach Yeah, Good guy. Really good guy.

[Corinne]: Yeah. I don't know him personally. I follow him on Twitter. He actually posted something today and it said, “If an airline announces that the Wi-Fi is broken before boarding, would you try to switch your flight?” Then he said “For a five hour con during work hours, I probably would have looked into other options.” So that was I thought, interesting that he raised that. I went and tweeted.

[Jeb]: You said, “the real question is how often is Wi-Fi broken and what's being done about that?” Yeah, good question.

[Corinne]: I don't have all the answers, but what I thought when I read his comment, I thought, okay, let's look at it from a different perspective. If they were to tell you at the gate, what would be the impact of that?

[Jeb]: I will tell you, it would be that I would get my iPad out, make sure that I had some content downloaded. And it's not realistic to just suddenly change for Wi-Fi. I think it is for perhaps some business travelers who really have to work. I've got work that I've got to do and I've reserved this time to do it. Maybe. I don't know. I don't think that there'd be a mad dash to the thing. I think there might be some frustration. That's why I've said time and time again, I think that the hardest job in in the airline industry is gate agent. But ultimately, I want to come to a flight as prepared as I can for the exigencies that promises are not met. So, I've always got, you know, a Kindle that's fully charged with some books to read and an iPad with some content downloaded that would I could watch if the screen doesn't work. You know, I make sure that all my devices are charged in case the plug doesn't function. I want to I want to take accountability for myself so that I am as prepared as I can be just in case that stuff doesn't work. And then I'm inevitably really happy and overjoyed when it does. And I think that right there is kind of, sums up my passenger experience philosophy.

[Corinne]: Mm hmm. Yeah, I've seen the unprepared ones. Again, everybody's got different expectations based on what they're doing, you know? But I have found a lot of people that have high expectations, and they don't take any responsibility and prepare themselves. I was talking about this at dinner earlier tonight in terms of people that, you know, their bag goes missing and they lose all these valuables. Can't believe anyone still putting valuables into checked baggage.

[Jeb]: Well, let me tell you, I had a really miserable experience at the end of December. I was flying out of Newark and to Cape Town or to Johannesburg. One of the pilots no-showed. Anyway. Anyway, he no-showed, so the flight canceled and it was one of these meltdown times where that was not the only thing. So the baggage line was about 3 hours long. It was just brutal. And finally I got to the front of it. And you're right, it's like there were so many people who were just berating the the baggage folks because those passengers had chosen to put their medicine in a checked bag. How is that the baggage team's fault?

[Corinne]: Who does that.

[Jeb]: Take responsibility for your actions. Like I was amazed at number one, how cool and calm these baggage agents were. But number two, how not at all cool and calm the passengers were. It was unbelievable. 

[Corinne]: Yeah, I get a bit like that. It's like, what possessed you? I just want to ask very quickly. Greensboro, North Carolina, someone visiting there, what's one thing they should go visit and what's one thing they should try and eat?

[Jeb]: That's a great question. You've got to check out our downtown smaller sized city here in Greensboro. But we've got a lot of fun things in our downtown, which is actually where I live. And then to eat, you got to you've got to get some barbecue. Everybody loves their their state's barbecue. But North Carolina is kind of got a unique, unique thing going. So I highly recommend grabbing some barbecue.

[Corinne]: Okay. So is that something that you'll find within the city when you're walking around? Lots of barbecue kind of takeaway shops?

[Jeb]: Yeah, there are a number here. I think everybody's got their favorite. I would recommend Stamey’s, here in Greensboro,

[Corinne]: I’ll put a link in the show notes and then finally, if anyone wants to see more of what you do, the best place to go find your content would be YouTube and any other social media channels?

[Jeb]: Yeah, YouTube is is is kind of the center of everything. I'm on Twitter as well and Instagram and just check me out. It's just Jeb Brooks. But YouTube is is kind of the center of the universe.

[Corinne]: Like yeah and that's what you know you put all your great videos on there. So anyway, Jeb thank you so, so much for joining us and sharing some really great insights from a real passenger perspective. So, I'm hoping that members of our audience will listen to that feedback and I know, like you said, never judge an airline by one flight. And I think that's a really great way to, to look at it. But we know there are some out there that are being consistent. I think consistency is key and something I've always advocated for. Thank you again so much for sharing those experiences and I encourage our audience to follow your channel to learn more about the different products the different airlines and hopefully can have you back on the show!

[Jeb]: Well, thank you so much for having me on. This was a lot of fun and I look forward to staying in touch.

[Corinne]: Great. Thank you.