Episode 86: How to Stay Calm Under Pressure as a Leader

Episode Summary

Leadership pressure reveals who a leader really is.

In this episode, Coach Mo sits down with entrepreneur and leadership coach Joe Wyrwus to explore what actually happens when leaders face pressure, employee turnover, and difficult leadership moments. Too often, leaders react emotionally instead of pausing to examine the deeper causes behind team disengagement and retention challenges.

Joe shares how the most effective leaders step back, regulate their reactions, and ask better questions before making decisions. The conversation dives into employee retention, leadership self-awareness, organizational values, and how misalignment between leaders and teams often drives turnover.

Coach Mo also breaks down how the S.W.A.G.™ Framework (Self-Awareness, Why-Power, Aligned Action, Grit) helps leaders regain composure, regulate stress, and lead with clarity when pressure hits.

If you're leading a team while carrying expectations, stress, and responsibility, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership under pressure.

Key Takeaways

Pause Before You React
Great leaders learn to step back during pressure moments instead of reacting emotionally. Clarity comes after the pause.

Employee Turnover Isn’t Always About Money
Many leaders assume employees leave for salary increases, but misalignment in purpose, growth, and values is often the deeper issue.

Self-Awareness Is the Leadership Multiplier
Leaders who openly acknowledge their stress or uncertainty create trust and psychological safety with their teams.

Misalignment Is the Silent Culture Killer
When employee values drift away from company values, engagement drops long before someone submits a resignation.

Leadership Starts With Leading Yourself
When a leader’s internal pressure, fear, or self-doubt takes control, their energy affects the entire team dynamic.

Transcript

Welcome And Quick Subscribe

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Welcome to the Luxe of Model Podcast. We're highly stuck performing and start transforming. I'm coaching. I'm going to find all energy leadership coach. I'm going to lead up and create a slide playing. Subscribe now and join me on YouTube at Swanite Coaching. So let's get your right thing. Welcome to another episode of the Let's Think About It Podcast. I'm your host, Coach Mo. And I'm here with another amazing guest. And his name is Joe Wearis. How you doing, brother? I'm doing great. Happy to be here with you today, Coach Mo. I'm happy that you're here. Where are you checking in from? Baltimore, Maryland. Baltimore. Man, there was just a couple of things that just happened in Baltimore. There was a football trade that just happened, and they reneged on the trade.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Lots going on with that one. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah, I'm a sports fanatic, but born and raised in Baltimore.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

A little bit south of Baltimore. Antaronto County. Okay. My dad's retired army, but moved to Baltimore after college, been here ever since.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Tell my audience who you are, what you do, and the type of value that you bring.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Definitely. So I'll start off with the things people love to say, which is I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a technical leader and I'm a licensed skydiver and I'm a leader. But really, for me, it's about the value I bring. And it's I like to create opportunities for other people. Opportunities to grow, to lead, to step into themselves, to take the next step in their life and leadership and whatever looks like that goal is for them. And so I have the amazing opportunity myself to partner with individuals as well as growing companies to help them learn how to promote leaders from within, to maximize everyone's potential. And at the end of the day, promote employee retention within a company as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Employee retention. That's an interesting buzz right now with what's going on in this world and the economy. I believe the unemployment rate has gone up over the past couple of months. So talk to me a little bit about how you get into this role of business and helping companies with employee retention.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Sure. So I'll give you a couple quick short stories to tell your audience about my journey. I was the very quiet shy kid for the longest time. And I had a couple opportunities in high school and college to one, first be part of a leadership development program, to have that opportunity to see myself as something more than just that quiet kid that was smart and wanted to get stuff done. In college at the University of Maryland, I had the opportunity to create leadership development programs for other undergrads on campus. And I took that as a stepping stone to how I approach leadership, how I approach building a company. My career has been in tech consulting, supporting the US federal governments. And with my current company, Anthem Engineering, I've been with them for almost 11 years now. And one of the things that we pride ourselves on is employee retention and a culture we've built where people are invested. They feel that they're doing meaningful work. They feel that we're creating opportunities for them. One of the facts I love to talk about is of our 40-ish people, a quarter of our company has been with us for 10 plus years, and over half have been with us for five plus years. And to your question, it's the work we do on a daily and weekly basis, supporting and setting up our employees and the people around us for success, for alignment with what they want to do, with the work that they're passionate about, and continuing on the journey with them every day, each step of the way, to figure out what they need, what makes them tick, and what makes them want to show up to work every day.

Leading Yourself When People Leave

SPEAKER_02 4:59

And typically they leave the person that supervises them because there might be some sort of disconnect or whatnot. But my question is when you talk about these different types of programs, from a theoretical standpoint, you teach people how to communicate, how to do best practices and better shaping the morale. What I want to know is how do you help a person understand how to lead self under pressure in those moments when their staff is leaving? How do they continue to show up to navigate the pressure that they're feeling that staff is leaving on their team? And how do they maintain that composure for themselves? Is that a part of an angle that you help your clients work with?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

I do. So I didn't mention yet that some of the other work I do is partnering with those companies to really help those managers, those leaders approach some of those challenging situations and conversations. And the first thing I always recommend is take a step back. Just when we're in the moment, when we're in the heat of an experience, we feel emotions. We feel emotions very deeply when it's something challenging. And so it's take a step back, let's pause, let's center ourselves, and then we can start diving in. And for your specific question of, hey, you have people on your team leaving the company, maybe because of you. And that's where really radical candor with yourself, taking the time to listen first, if you have an engagement feedback survey, especially if they're leaving, to really create opportunities, if unfortunately after the fact to get some of that, but ideally during before they've ever gotten there, what is going on? What am I doing well that makes you feel supported? What are some of my blind spots? What are the challenges I'm having? And when you start creating those lines of communication, you can start feeling out, saucing out, okay, is it me? Am I the problem here? Is it the job, the situation itself that maybe I have control of, maybe I don't? Or is it somewhere in between? And I get it, I've done it myself where we start taking things personally. And it's really finding that divide of where should I actually honestly take it personally? What are the things I acknowledge about myself, or others are acknowledging that I'm not quite there, ready to acknowledge, that I do need to work on. And what are the things that are outside my control that maybe I didn't spend enough time explaining why I can't do anything about them, why we're stuck in that situation, or maybe I did, and that employee chose to leave anyway. And so I think it's taking that step back, listening, asking questions, and then start putting it into those two buckets and then starting to really do that self-work, particularly under pressure, particularly when we're feeling very strong emotions.

The SWAG Framework Under Stress

Self-Awareness And Naming The Pressure

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I think it starts with the individual leader first, too, because firmly believe that the energy that you carry into any dynamic, any organization really has an effect on the people that you served in one way or another, directly or indirectly, right? And so what I mean by that, if you are a leader who's consistently under pressure to get the ROI, because you are a high achiever, you naturally carry that weight and you have high expectations of self that you cannot fail. Then there may be an aspect of fear of failure, fear of not being successful, things like that. And you carry that naturally into the equation. So now you look at you're having budget issues where you can't continuously staff certain people on your team or they're leaving for whatever reason. That affects how you naturally judge self because you equate it as I'm not performing the way that I think I should be performing, and you're carrying that narrative, which translates into real alert, stress, right? And the people that's receiving it, they feel it. And so that's why I created the swag framework self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. Because in those moments of being triggered, your swag is off. You are unaware that the inner critic is at its peak, telling you that you're not good enough in that moment, and then because of that, you may lose focus in your purpose, and then you're stagnant, which means your aligned actions are off, and then you're willing to slow down and pause and stop your momentum, meaning your swag is off. So when I talk about swag and what I just described to you, how does that parallel to what your team's philosophy in helping leaders get back on track when they're experiencing certain fears that they carry?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Definitely. I love your framework. That's why I was so excited to be on your show, because as I reflected on the work I do, particularly in one-on-one coaching, it really started feeling a lot of alignment. And the first part, exactly to your point, is that self-awareness. And through coaching, it's helping leaders really start building that self-awareness through questions, through deep diving, the feelings they're having, the thoughts they're having. And then not just what they are, but unpacking why. Why is it aligned? Why am I feeling that pressure because of that budget? Is it making me look like I don't know what I'm doing or I'm bad at my job, or I should have seen that potential market shift showing up? And particularly if you're leading a team and you're in that moment, I encourage leaders to take that self-awareness and actually name it, to bring it not only to yourself, but to your team. Hey, I'm stressed right now because my budget was off and we're potentially going to have to move in a different direction. Now, don't throw gasoline on a fire that's gonna have people just start hopping off of a ship that isn't burning yet, but giving them that insight into what's going on and particularly what you're feeling and thinking is one of the most critical things leaders can do because on that flip side, on the person on that team sees you starting to get a little bit more agitated, sees you being heated more in the moment, sees and feels something's off. And so they're gonna start guessing and putting assumptions and trying to figure out in their mind what's going on. And those assumptions then start causing people to get on the edge of the ship ready to jump off, where maybe it wasn't actually on fire at all. We just were so worried about our own perception of maybe an actual failure or not. And then I think the big piece for me is always that alignment for your why and your purpose. Hey, I made this decision as a leader, as a company owner, because of this specific belief or thought of right or idea. And this is how it aligns with who I am. This is the choice I made. And when you can bring that also to the forefront, people start understanding what you believe in, who you are, why you make those choices. Maybe they don't agree with it, maybe they still are hesitant with the direction. But because you brought that self-awareness to the forefront and you tied it back into your own why, that's when not only the leader, but the entire team can get into that aligned action. And sometimes when it's a market shift out of your control, you can grit it through, you can keep moving forward despite the outside challenges.

Retention Myths Leaders Believe

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Absolutely. And at the end of the day, it's respect, right? A man that knows their why and their vision of where they're going, you may disagree, but you can respect that because they're wearing it on their sleeve, and that's their driver to move us forward. And I think often we get distracted away from that because the pain that we feel right now, maybe of losing staff, maybe of a change policy, maybe of a certain senior leadership decision, it hurts in that moment. And in that moment, you you're naturally distracted away from your purpose and your why if you let it, because that distraction elevates the inner critic, that punk ass inner critic, by the way. It elevates it, right? To where that voice that sounds like you in your head, it becomes real, and you think it's a voice of reason when it can be a voice of more discouragement, avoidance. So my next question that I want to ask you is what are some common misconceptions that these leaders carry about why people are leaving and the struggles that they have with employee retention?

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah, I think one of them that right away pops into my head is oh, they just wanted more money, or that's the only thing they care about, the benefits and and the money. And sure, if you're underpaying someone if they could get double the salary by leaving, then there's a reasonable expectation there. But in my industry, so many times people leave to just get a five or 10% pay bump. And I don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure I've heard studies that people will actually switch companies for less money. And so one of the main misconceptions, especially in the tech industry, is oh, they just are after that next big payday. And again, some people are, but I think a lot of times it's a misalignment of the opportunities they're providing them, the growth they're looking for, the ownership and the fun and the joy of their work. And so one of those is right off the bat hey, don't just assume because they did get a pay raise or they left. It's because it's just the benefits and the money they care about. I think the other one is really back to the initial part of the conversation where as leaders, we take things too personally sometimes, and we think that it's a reflection of what we were doing. And sometimes it's just a misalignment of what that person needs in their season of life. And so there's that balance of okay, was there things I could have done better? But taking that self-critical guy in your head or off your shoulder and saying, or maybe there's just some things that just don't fit with our organization. And that's why I always stress as you're hiring, as you're trying to find candidate fits, yes, you need the skills, but it's that organizational cultural fit that, in my opinion, is one of the most aligned things. And so when I see people typically leave within the first six months to a year being in a company, to me, it's I think there wasn't an organizational fit. It probably wasn't the leader. Other people are staying. How do you fix that, particularly as you bring people on? And then I think the last one is maybe a misconception, or maybe it's not, which is hey, maybe I did do a bad job and their complaints are about other things, but they're just trying to go quietly into the night and protect themselves. And they didn't give me the critical feedback that I need as a leader, as a company owner, as whatever position. And that's why I always again encourage ask as many questions as possible and listen. Don't then respond and judge, but to listen. And I think the third misconception is it wasn't about us, it was them. And sometimes it's no, you and your company, your culture, your structure needs a lot of work to retain people for much, much longer than six months to a year.

Values Misalignment As The Root

SPEAKER_02 18:07

To your point, I think it's a little deeper, in my opinion. I think it's from I'm thinking of it from a standpoint of misalignment in values. Definitely. Because think about it. When the employee first took the job, they were excited, they were happy, ready to take on this new task, this new role, move forward, elevate their career. Some point during that journey, and no one would really ever admit this because it happens subconsciously, but when our values become misaligned with the company's values, right, it creates a little bit more of this hesitation that maybe I should be looking for something else. So the real question is at what point does an individual's alignment of their values become disconnected with the values of the organization or the values of their unit that they're working for, or the values of their supervisor that they report directly to? At some point, there was something that happened that triggered my values doesn't align here right now. In my opinion, that's the deeper rooted issue. How are the people that are leaving organizations, how much of their values are offline to what the organization's values are? I think that's a really important question to ask. And then it's tough, though, for an organization to take a deeper look at themselves from that standpoint because it's one thing, right, to say we embrace DEI, we embrace diversity, but then you get into the organization, the actions don't match that. And then you have an individual who works for that organization, and they value maybe family, diversity, and that's key. Those behaviors of the organization don't match what they're saying, then the employee naturally will start looking for another job if that's an important value to them. And that's the swag framework and what I described, that's the signal, honestly, to let you know that your values are not in alignment because you feel funny about the dynamic of what's happening in this situation. And so that's kind of my take on it. How important is that with the organization really following through on the values that they put out there to their organizations for their teams and employees to follow?

Thriving Versus Surviving Story

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah, you were spot on with that, Coach Mellon. I'll share a story as we hopped on this call. I alluded to it. Right now, I'm literally coming out of the middle of a situation like that. I do a lot of nonprofit volunteer work. And one organization I've been involved with, this is my ninth year. And about a month ago, I started feeling that misalignment. I was effectively a middle manager in this volunteer role. And I've done it before. I know what for me it looks like to be in alignment, what allows me to be successful, what allows me to really support my team. And unfortunately, there are continued moments. And so we had a conversation a week or so ago, tried to get back on the same page, and it actually made the misalignment even wider. And our theme today is a composure under pressure. And I think there was failure on my part and on the organization's leaders' parts, where we both lost a little bit of that composure and we widened the gap even farther. And fortunately, I think we all recognize that the value of the work we're doing, the value of each other. And so we were able to come together again this week and have a really productive conversation around our why, around our Values around what it looks like showing up productively in each other's leadership hierarchy and what we need to be successful. And in past years, there's been challenges like anything. And me personally, I've gritted it out. I've said, okay, there's some things I disagree with, but I care about my role. I care about the people, particularly under me, that I'm getting to create an environment for. And so I'll work through those challenges. But this year, I had a very good deep conversation with a friend. And the word he used was survive. And I said to him, I don't want to be surviving. I want to be thriving. I want to feel that not only are we aligned, but we are moving in such a great direction together. And through our last conversation I had with the leadership team, I realized that unfortunately, I would not be thriving anymore. I would just be surviving. But I was able to come to that conclusion, not in that reactionary state, not in that very gut deep emotional state, but because we all took a breath. We came together under this very pressure situation because we need to move forward with so much volunteer work right now. And we came to a mutual decision that this was actually the year for me to step away. Maybe the future has me coming back, but this year, because of the misalignment, that there wasn't going to be that productive, thriving situation for all of us. And as leaders, it's so challenging to experience that because honestly, there's just so much joy I feel in that role in working with these other individuals for putting on the program. But it's at the same time that misalignment of values was there. And so do your question. Yeah, it's the number one important thing and why people sometimes leave after many years with the same organization that they care deeply about.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

So, in a nutshell, you help companies pause for a minute, take a step back, look at the big picture, understand your why. From that why, you have purpose. And with purpose, you can start to make better decisions on how you can retain your employees. Is that what you're telling me?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yes, you're spot on, Mo. Man, that is swag. All right, I'm gonna have to work with you on a partnership here to start using some of your material.

Where To Find Joe And Tools

SPEAKER_02 24:47

It's all good. What's the name of your company?

SPEAKER_00 24:49

It is wiser with Joe, but wiser with the why, because the why is the most important thing to start with.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

And how can my audience find you for more information?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Two ways. The first, connect with me on LinkedIn. I post leadership development content, personal stories, ideas, and frameworks two to three times a week. So definitely connect with me, follow me on LinkedIn. And then the second one is my website, wiserwithjoe.com, wiserwithawhy, and you can find out about some of the coaching work I do, the keynotes, and the facilitated trainings that I love to create to partner with individuals and organizations.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

That's awesome. What's one of your top leadership development tools that you offer on your website?

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Ooh. So the thing I love is all about personalities. We see it way too much, unfortunately, with us feed quizzes and Harry Potter houses and stuff like that. But truthfully, at the end of the day, a simple personality framework gives you the common language to understand how you approach situations, how you think about situations, and how other people approach and think about it. And so that's one of my favorite workshops, one of the favorite things I love to do with people, because when we have that common ground, it makes it so much easier to understand how we can work together. And when that conflict happens, how we can take that step back and understand where we're coming from.

Final Thoughts And Closing Charge

SPEAKER_02 26:24

In a way, it gives people a sense of power of choice too. When you can understand how you personally show up and then how your peers and people around you, I'm also assuming that you learn certain behavioral traits that you can pick up in other people going through these types of development tools, and then that helps you regulate self naturally better. So when these stressful moments happen, one, we can pause. Number two, we can implement what we've learned through your one of your leadership personality development tools, and then you can choose accordingly because now you have power of choice. Boom. There it is. Any final thoughts before we jump off?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Uh once again, great talking with you. I love your swag framework. And as we both said, really start with that why. It's so important when we understand our purpose and we have that alignment. And so just so enjoyable to talk about that with you today.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

I love it because with the swag framework, you don't have to come in through the self-awareness piece first. You can come in with why, your purpose, your values. And if you start by going, taking a couple steps back, understanding what your purpose is, not even your purpose, your values, and why are your values misaligned, you can start to do wonders for yourself. You really can in self-regulating. I appreciate you, Joe. Thank you so much. That's another rep in the inner arena. You didn't just listen, you leveled up your swag. Self-awareness, why power, aligned action, and grit. If it's at home, share it, subscribe to the Let's Think About It podcast, and log in with me on YouTube at Swag Coaching. Until next time, stay aware, lead with your why, act in alignment, and keep your grit strong.