The Builder's Alliance Crafting Spaces with Cohesive Design and Expertise - Episode 59

Unlock the full potential of your building and remodeling projects as we dive into the collaborative spirit that can make your work shine. Together with industry experts, I, Chris Kirby, will guide you through the essentials of crafting strong partnerships with interior designers and fellow contractors. These alliances are not just about expanding your business—they're about creating a symphony of design and functionality that will leave clients in awe. Our Shop Talk is the real deal for hands-on advice, where we get into the nitty-gritty of tile installation, challenges with corners and edges, and the debate over tile sizes—all to polish your skills and keep you ahead in the competitive world of home construction.

Ever wondered how to master the art of estimating tile quantities or stay abreast of the enthralling design trends sweeping through homes? Look no further. We zero in on the must-knows for ordering tiles, with a focus on avoiding the pitfalls of underestimating and embracing the beauty of surplus for those intricate patterns and future fixes. Artisanal tiles like Zellige are stealing the spotlight, and we'll explore how their distinctiveness can breathe life into any space. You'll emerge from this episode with a profound appreciation for the character these tiles add to a room and the expertise to educate clients about the charm of irregular edges and textured finishes. Join us for a journey through the transformative world of home building and remodeling, where each tile and partnership lays the groundwork for success.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

The Home Building and Remodeling Show. Let's go. Welcome everybody to the Home Building and Remodeling Show. My name is Chris Kirby and I'll be your host. I am the owner of three construction companies on the Alabama Gulf Coast. The show is about residential construction. We're going to cover topics of home building and remodeling. Are you thinking of doing a remodel or building a home? Are you a contractor looking to improve your knowledge base or grow your business? Have you ever done a remodel project or built a home? There were so many things you wish you knew or that you could have done differently during the process. Then this show is for you. We break down the process of building and remodeling and how to have the best results during your project. Whether you're a DIYer looking for tips, someone looking to hire a contractor to do a project, or a contractor looking to expand your knowledge base or your business, welcome aboard. Glad to have you. Stay tuned. We kick off the show with my thoughts on home building and remodeling. I'll share best practices and talk about some of our experiences in business and out in the field. These shared thoughts and lessons learned are meant to help you on your very own journey. Let's go.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Even before then, interior designers were our friends. They gave us work, they helped us with design. And again, as an installer or tile setter, you may not always know what looks pretty or be able to help the client navigate selections, and that's crucial. And that's where those interior designers come in. They help pick out the material, they work with you on layout, they work with you on design. You make recommendations from a contractor's perspective, but they really help handle a lot of times ordering and providing material because they're making selections. So having relationships with interior designers, especially when you're first starting out because interior designers are always looking for good contractors to partner with Trust me when I tell you that interior designers do not want to be contractors, even though some of them end up in that project management role just because they have an established relationship with the client, that doesn't mean they want to be contractors. So they're looking for good installers to work with. So get to know some local interior designers, interior design firms especially.

Speaker 1: 2:37

Number three would be developers, okay, and we'll say contractors as well. Because if you're just an individual contractor or just starting out, you're an individual tile installer, it's good to have relationships with other contractors because, just like we have a home building side where I may hire a tile sub to install the tile in that home, because our remodeling crews and our remodeling companies, they may be busy, they may not be able to get to it, so they may not be able to. Our tile crews may not be able to get to the work. And then you're going to need you've got a connection with a builder, you've got a connection even with an architect or a real estate developer. You become known as their tile installer or who they would recommend to install tile. So developing relationships with those contractors home builders, remodeling companies and getting that work from them. The contractor may be a prime contractor and get hired to do a total bathroom or a large scope remodel and they're going to sub out to individuals for paint, for trim, for tile.

Speaker 1: 3:53

So just getting to know other contractors. Don't look at it as competition. Yes, a tile installer may be your direct competition, but also you can't take on all the work by yourself. So having somebody, a good referral partner, is always key. So make friends with other developers, builders, contractors. They can be your go-to. And now we move into Shop Talk. It's the portion of the show where I bring in a co-host and we cover trending topics in home building and remodeling. Hope you enjoy. Let's go. In my opinion, even for our guys, that's where you see the most chipping.

Speaker 1: 4:34

The most cracks is in those corners of niches and anywhere you said mitering, but anywhere that you have a 45 on a shower wall, that's where I see the most mistakes that too is guys just pumping it out instead of taking their time and polishing that edge off to make it look cleaner yeah, and so there's a way to to actually, you know if it, if it does chip on those edges and stuff, there's ways to clean that up. Is what you're saying? Is that where you're going to? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 5:05

minor chips Nothing crazy.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Yeah, yeah, or you need to cut. You need to recut it if it's too chipped.

Speaker 2: 5:12

And then you can get attachments for your drills and whatnot to clean it off too.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Yeah, what's your favorite type of tile to install? I like larger format tile. You think it's easier, or is it just it's quicker, or what? Why do you like to do the larger format?

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1: 5:31

There's more detail in the smaller.

Speaker 2: 5:34

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:34

It takes a lot more work. Okay, so if you're doing a Subway versus a 12 by 48, which one would you rather do? 12 by 48? Yeah, I, you rather do 12 by 48?

Speaker 2: 5:46

Yeah, I don't know that stuff's a pain in the butt.

Speaker 1: 5:48

It depends on where the application is right, so like if you're doing a whole home.

Speaker 2: 5:54

And a lot of people, I notice, just want some money.

Speaker 1: 5:57

I don't know, I got that on camera. But yeah, so the? What do we use the 12 by 24s, right? Would you rather do 12 by 24 or small?

Speaker 2: 6:06

Yeah, 12 by 24. All day, all day why? It's just easier to install.

Speaker 1: 6:12

Yeah, it ain't about looks, it ain't about nothing else.

Speaker 2: 6:14

It moves. You move a little faster and I just tile work gives me anxiety, so the quicker I can be done with it the better off I am.

Speaker 1: 6:27

Yeah, what about uh like glass tile and stuff?

Speaker 2: 6:28

like that man. So the only glass tile I've really have done is like back splashes. Yeah, is it crack easy. Oh man, it's you. You have to take your time with it. Yeah, yeah, and a lot of time because it's If you chip the back coating on, that stuff is where it shows it starts to mess up.

Speaker 1: 6:50

I got you All right. What about mosaics?

Speaker 2: 6:53

Nah, they're okay.

Speaker 1: 6:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:55

You just got to.

Speaker 1: 6:56

When you're cutting, take your time and make sure everything's Well those are the ones man, like if you don't know what you're doing there, like the penny tile especially, that come in the sheets. You can see those lines, dude, if you're not good at what you do. And always on the penny tile, hex tiles, that come in those sheets. Man, I always look to see if I can see you know your lines where your sheets meet.

Speaker 2: 7:21

I always look for those lines, that's one thing I look to when I go look at a shower. Yeah, if I'm looking at the shower floors to see if I can see the growlons, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:31

And then when you're installing tile, one of the more important things is what's behind it, and we always use Schluter as our waterproofing and the KERDI bands and stuff like that. And we've been doing Schluter for a while now. It seems like it's getting a little more expensive every year after year and we've started to try, we're going to start trying some different waterproofing materials. But when it comes to looks, the tile matters. But when it comes to actually protecting against moisture and things like that, how important is that using a good product like a Schluter?

Speaker 2: 8:09

I mean, it's easy application.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:12

It makes life easier on the installer. There's less you know. I mean it's just. It's just a lot faster tempo than you know putting up hardy or do a rock and you know building out your mud pan and then red guarding and then waiting.

Speaker 1: 8:29

So that's an old school and I think you know people still do it. But, uh, putting out the mud pan, mud bed, whatever you want to call it. But you're actually at that point. You were actually building up a pan right. You were making sure and this was out of mortar and cement, you were making sure that it was sloped properly. You had to wait for it to set up. And now we use the Schluter kit. But we do these pre-made pans right and they come in different sizes, but they're pre-sloped, they're pre-sloped and everything, so you walk in, you set your pan and it's done.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Instead of walking in pre-sloping, installing your vinyl, wrap your PVC vinyl, then actually doing your last mud bed, then you're ready to put your Durock on the wall.

Speaker 1: 9:24

There's, you know. So, timeframe wise, it made a lot of sense for us but also, like our, for our crews. You know, those foam boards, versus Durock and sheet rock, are more lightweight, you know, one person carry two, three, four, five of those things and it's less labor intensive. But the timeline so when you're looking at installing tile right, we're not talking about the whole bathroom but let's just talk about a shower. For us right now, a good timeframe would be what? For start to finish? Yeah, start to finish, and I know it matters like if you're just doing a tub hop-up, I'm talking shower. So Shower, start and finish, tear out waterproofing.

Speaker 2: 10:08

I mean you're a week and a couple days, depending on the size.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Yeah, and just running through that's demo, that's reframing as needed. You know, if they need pony walls, you're building that out. Then you go into your waterproofing stage right now. So you're going to install your, your sleuter kit, basically, and then you're going to waterproof it and then you're going to come in and start setting your tile. So you're saying that process there a good time frame would be a week, maybe a week and a couple days.

Speaker 2: 10:39

Oh well, you'll demo and then get everything prepped and level in a day.

Speaker 1: 10:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:46

If it takes that long and then the following day you come in and you set your pan and waterproof, you can do all that in one day. Got it Okay, I heard to you, know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 10:56

Yeah, letting it set up and having a you know right, taking a couple of days Okay. Having a you know right, taking a couple of days Okay. And then let's talk about expectations from the client's perspective right, when it comes to tile. So this is where a lot of people catch hell, and we do sometimes. We've gotten better just because the quality of our work has improved over the years, but there are some some people you just you can't please every customer, but tile is a big one, because if they have a problem with your tile work and you're talking if you didn't get enough, or if there's no more tile, like you finished the job but there's really not any left and they have too many issues I mean you could be ripping out and ordering all new tile, right? You know what I mean. And especially we were talking about it with the designers that special order tile. If you don't get at least 20% more, then you're doing it wrong.

Speaker 2: 11:51

Oh yeah, because if you mismeasure on tile and you buy a specialty, yeah, and then you're short, a couple runs, yeah, I mean yeah, and then you try to get and you won't get the same tone or finish because each run of that tile has a different shade.

Speaker 1: 12:12

Well, and that's what she was saying, some, and you know, even trying to get it from the same spot, same distributor, where you might have one manufacturer that has 10 different locations, but even stuff that's at each different location could be different. It could be called the same, it could be patterned the same, but what you're saying is there could be a slight variation in tone, and that just it's. We've seen it. Yeah, it's very visible, and so you want to. What's your rule of thumb when it comes to estimating for tile?

Speaker 2: 12:45

So I round up.

Speaker 1: 12:47

Yeah, you say it. Let's just say you've got 85 square feet wall tile. What are you? What are you ordering? What do you want Jan to order for us? 120. 120. So even more, I mean yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:59

Yeah, I'm making sure you know what I mean. I mean, yeah, I'm making sure you know. I mean not just that you got an account, not everybody's perfect, so you're on miscuts. Yep, you got that way.

Speaker 1: 13:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:09

So, and depending on how they want you to install it, you know, depending on the layout, design Yep Layout.

Speaker 1: 13:17

I mean you you'll work in so key considerations when estimating your tile. Miscuts okay, a layout okay, having, even if you install it perfectly and ordered the right amount. What happens when later and it may not be a warranty thing, but they walk on a piece and it cracks right or they drop or hit it always?

Speaker 2: 13:41

like after you finish the job, you want to give that homeowner what's you know, like the yeah, this is and be like here, keep it, put it up somewhere, just in case something happens, even if it looks great.

Speaker 1: 13:51

Who knows, in a couple weeks or even a year later, you get a crack piece right. At least you have that same batch, you have that extra, okay, uh, and look, there's gonna be miscuts. Not that you know, we're all perfect in installing tiles, so there are gonna be miscuts. You're gonna walk up, you're gonna get your measurements, you're gonna go to the saw and you're gonna cut. You're gonna come back and be like shoot, I messed up, so. So that's part of that miscut, yeah, um, but also like when you're doing your patterns, like what, what you were saying, right, if you've got to cut that bad boy in half, if you've got to cut a certain amount off of it?

Speaker 2: 14:29

Heron bone, if they want, you know, like a heron bone pattern of yeah, chevron, you know you get into a lot of waste. Yeah, you know your starts and.

Speaker 1: 14:42

So if there's a different pattern and it's not just straight runs or something you're saying, get even a little more.

Speaker 2: 14:47

Right, so I try to make that. You know. Get that info out of the customer.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Now we're going to move into the portion of the show where we talk interior design. We're going to bring in an interior designer and we're going to talk trending design and products. Hope you enjoy. Let's go.

Speaker 3: 15:09

Immediate reaction is no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 15:12

Yeah, and I've noticed that you know, every year Sherwin comes out with their color of the year and rarely is it a neutral. Rarely, rarely is it a neutral.

Speaker 3: 15:23

It's a lot like fashion you have to have something that drives yeah, drives the market to change and be more unique.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Sure.

Speaker 3: 15:28

So, yes, color drenching dopamine color. I swore I'm going to use that word all day long today.

Speaker 1: 15:32

Number one, color. Yeah, got it In tile, what you got for number two.

Speaker 3: 15:45

Next one we talked about this last time on our podcast, but again it's just becoming more and more prevalent is handcrafted tiles. So we talked about the Zellige tiles which you know. All of those are hand-formed, hand-fired. I mean, it's just amazing what's within them.

Speaker 1: 16:05

But outside from hand-formed, you also have undulated, which undulated just means the edges of it are a little more handcrafted, but the face still might be a little smooth. So, and that's where you know, for the installer side, it's not going to be even. Every tile is a little bit different, right? And then what is it? Undulated, undulated, okay, so that just means that it's not going to be a clean line, it's not going to be cut smooth straight across, correct, okay, all right. So how do you balance that and make sure the client is informed when it comes to that as well, because sometimes they may think they chipped it or they didn't cut it even so, it's a little sledge. There you go Product knowledge and letting them know what they're getting as well, right? You?

Speaker 3: 16:32

always want to be informed. No matter what you're buying, you want to be informed about what you're eating. So why aren't?

Speaker 3: 16:37

you informed about what you're going to put in your house. It's going to be there for years and years and years. Absolutely. As a designer, I really like to make sure that I have the knowledge I need, that I can convey that to the client. However, if you're out shopping by yourself, you might not know, and the good thing to do is always get more than at least two samples. I prefer four to five at most. Sure, that way I can see the maximum variation or movement.

Speaker 1: 16:58

Awesome. So these handcrafted tiles also. We're talking about clean lines and different things. It may look a little bit different, but also visually right. It's not going to be level or even on the wall. So some areas, yeah, there may be some waves in it, but that's for a purpose.

Speaker 3: 17:17

It is Okay, got it, it's for a purpose. It's another thing, too, that you have to remember. When you're working with tiles like that that do not have a true edge, when they're meeting up into something like a Schluter that fits in that pocket, or meeting up against a bullnose, it will not be straight.

Speaker 1: 17:32

Right.

Speaker 3: 17:32

Now, that's part of the beauty of it.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Absolutely. If you understand it, yes, sand it. But I love that because some people think so. The difference is we get I don't know what you call it. It's not necessarily handcrafted, it's the pattern tile that kind of meet at the four corners. They'll create a larger design, right, yeah, okay, that is not this.

Speaker 3: 17:55

No.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Okay, that's different.

Speaker 3: 17:56

That is different. Yes, so that's really a tile that has a pattern matched. Yeah, you're taking four tiles to make one pattern whole.

Speaker 1: 18:05

Right, right, yeah, and this is every tile can be different. In this situation, it does not have pattern necessarily, it's more just the edges of it that are Right, and you do need an installer who knows what they're doing as well.

Speaker 3: 18:18

I mean any tile. You've got to have a knowledgeable installer.

Speaker 1: 18:22

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 18:22

Even these large format, where people seem like they seem to think, because it's large, it should be easier. No, it makes it worlds harder.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:29

Not only for handling, but also knowing the appropriate measurements and where to cut.

Speaker 1: 18:33

Right? Well, and that's the thing. Product knowledge is key as an installer, and we've been talking about it with our team and doing training, because if you're new to this, an apprentice in the tile installation world or a tile setter, you know your coworker or your crew leader may just have tile there waiting for you and may just have grout there waiting for you and they say, hey, listen, I need you to get this installed. Well, you got to ask questions. Well, is that the type of thinset? Is that mortar? Can it be used for this type of tile? Is this sand?

Speaker 3: 19:08

and run sand and grout.

Speaker 1: 19:09

Correct what I need, absolutely. There are details that you got to know as an installer and you know you're talking about different types of tile, but there's different types of when you're spreading the mortar, when you're back buttering. Do you do it thicker? Do you do it thinner? Do you need more with large format? There are so many details that go into the installation process, much more than just the design, that I absolutely agree that you have to have some product knowledge, even as a contractor.

Speaker 3: 19:42

Oh yeah, and even as a designer, I'll use an example. It was a glass Chevron and the Chevrons, this was 0.3 millimeters thin tile. That is probably one of the thinnest tiles you can get. It's also glass, so super delicate. Well, I got some schooling that day, which I love, because I brought over a certain kind of grout and it was a universal grout. Well, I got some schooling that day, which I love, because I brought over a certain kind of grout and it was a universal grout.

Speaker 1: 20:03

Sure.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Well, immediately he looks at me and he goes I hope you kept the receipt, yeah, and I, you know, I didn't know why.

Speaker 1: 20:09

Thanks for joining us today. As always, we are grateful for our listeners and your continued support. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Follow us on social media via Facebook, instagram and TikTok. Get more info at our website, wwwthehomebuildingshowcom. And, as always, remember who we are the Home Building and Remodeling Show. Ciao.