Shifting perspective in order to remove limiting beliefs

What if the thing keeping you stuck isn’t the obstacle — but the story you’re telling about it?

In this episode of Wellness in Every Season, I’m joined by Risa August — award-winning author, speaker, Gestalt practitioner, and patient advocate — to talk about how a single perspective shift can crack open the tightest limiting beliefs.

After being diagnosed with a tumor at the base of her brain and facing a destructive disease, Risa hit a moment that changed everything: instead of focusing on what she couldn’t do, she asked a different question — “What can I do?” That one reframe became the doorway back to her life, her work, and her purpose.

We talk about:

• Why “I can’t” is often a habit, not a fact
• How Gestalt work helps you uncover patterns keeping you trapped
• The difference between common vs. normal suffering
• What it looks like to let go of old identity (even the “strong one”)
• Why giving yourself an “out” can actually help you move forward
• How to use tiny steps to rebuild confidence when everything feels heavy

If you’ve been carrying a “should,” living under self-imposed rules, or feeling boxed in by your own expectations — this one will feel like air.

Follow Risa’s work and learn more: RisaAugust.com

Book: The Road Unpaved: Border to Border with a Brain Tumor and a Bike (Amazon + local bookstores)

For more wellness tips and exclusive content, join my newsletter! Sign up now at https://wellness-in-every-season.kit.com/5-days-to-mastering-mornings-and-evenings receive a free 5-day guide called "Awaken and Unwind: 5 Days to Mastering Life's Mornings and Evenings."

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Welcome
• 0:26 Meet Resa August: Author and Coach
• 1:40 Resa's Personal Journey and Transformation
• 3:37 Discovering Gestalt Therapy
• 10:35 The Power of Shifting Perspectives
• 16:00 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs
• 18:21 Resa's Camino de Santiago Experience
• 33:22 Final Thoughts and Closing

Transcript

Episode 182: Shifting perspective in order to remove limiting beliefs

[00:00:00] 

We are talking about shifting perspective in order to shift limiting beliefs.

Welcome to Wellness. In every season, we talk all things wellness, to help you align with your goals, find balance in your life, and recalibrate yourself if you are listening for the first time. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here, and let's get started

I have with me Resa August with Feather and Sage coaching, she has written a book. If you guys are watching on video, it's right behind her. It says The Road Unpaved, and it's showing somebody on a bike colors of blue all the way up through red. So whoever designed that, even if you designed it yourself, it's beautiful. I would pick up the book just by the way it looks.

I am so excited for what we're gonna be talking about.

She's an award-winning author. I assume it's that book or is it a different book? 

This book. 

Perfect [00:01:00] speaker. And then, how do you say this? Gestalt. That sounds almost German. It is, it's a German word. Practitioner.

I'm very excited to learn what that is. I did not cheat and Google it, and she is a patient advocate. So do you have any spare time? 

I was gonna ask you the same thing. When you feel inspired by the things you do, it doesn't feel like work.

I've found so much value, and inspiration in all the things I'm doing right now, sounds like you're in a really great place in life.

Thank you. 

Let's start with why is this on your mind and why is this a topic that you wanna talk about?

Yes. I think it's because when I was diagnosed with a. Tumor at the base of my brain and a very destructive disease. Almost seven years ago. I had to start looking at my life differently. I was never gonna be the same. My life was never gonna be the [00:02:00] same.

Initially, I was so focused on what I couldn't do, who I no longer was, and not that the grief. Of all that wasn't important to go through. But, you know, I thought my life was over, I couldn't see any other way. This happened one day. I'll tell you the story.

I was sitting on my sofa wearing these gray sweatpants they were so tattered and worn because I could barely function it was post brain surgery, post-radiation treatment, I really had this moment of, you know, this is no way to live. That was the day I stopped focusing on what I couldn't do.

I started focusing on what I could do. That's when it all changed. That's when my big pivot happened. Fast forward when I got into, coaching other clients, what I notice is how often we limit [00:03:00] ourselves and. These constraints we put on ourselves are often self-imposed.

We forget the power we have over that and the choice we have over that. So that's kind of in a nutshell how I started down that path. 

It sounds like you really just brought a nutshell of what has been a really huge journey, took years to get to this point. 

And it's still unfolding, right? We continue to evolve as we go through life. I didn't figure it out overnight and I'm still figuring it out.

How'd you end up on the coaching path? You could have gone so many different directions. Something lit that path up for you.

Yeah, it's interesting. I was actually working for a woman who pioneered Gestalt therapy partnering with horses. I was [00:04:00] running all the admin and her business and her programs. I didn't grow up with horses or anything.

I started getting curious about the modality of Gestalt it was the first time in my life when you're forced to be reflective, you start looking at your life differently 

I was like, I don't know that I wanna work for someone else forever. I started questioning a lot of things and, started owning my strengths. I stayed very dim and behind the scenes. Most of my life I was shy and timid one of those people pleasers 

I started realizing, wait a minute, I actually have a lot of incredible skills listening leadership and, being very insightful I learned about this two year, intense certification program for this modality, that I was familiar with through who I was working for.

And I thought, wait a minute. I think I would be [00:05:00] really good at this. It was a stepping stone into stepping more into just who I am as a person. And so again it's step by step, it's a process. But that's where started. 

It sounds like, you're a deep thinker and that you spent all this time really absorbing everything and thinking deeply, and I would do things this way, and I think things should actually be this way and maybe not speaking up.

When you had this big realization of seeing yourself and owning up to things, you were able to take all of this knowledge from observing and then move forward and you realized where you wanted to go and what you wanted to do from observing the person you worked for.

Yeah, that's a great way to put it is seeing myself and allowing myself to be seen, that's even scarier, right? [00:06:00] Putting myself out there and, all the parts of us and being confident in that. So, yeah, you put it beautifully.

I am a big observer. I definitely am a sponge and I notice many of the details that most people don't. 

I have people that are surprised when I say things. I'm terrible at remembering names, but I'll remember facts about you and I can bring up things you told me years ago they could seem random to that person, but then they're like, actually that did mean something to me at that time.

I know I picked up on that vibration or whatever you would wanna say and that's why it resonated with me. It seemed like that little random tidbit, but I could tell there was something behind it for you. It's been interesting to allow them space. To start to unpack that in themselves.

Sometimes they come back to me later on, they're like, I thought about that. I was talking to my husband, I'm like, I think that matters more than knowing their name. My husband's like, I think both do. I'm like, yeah, but if I had to [00:07:00] pick one, I think I'll pick that one. Because it's showing that I might not remember your name, but I remember something deeper because you could have the same name as all these other people, but this other stuff is what really drew me to you 

And my daughter's like that too. She's very much an observer. So it's really fun she is your mini, she absolutely is. Personality and everything. I had somebody tell me, just last week, I don't feel like your husband contributed anything into her DNA. I'm like, that's hysterical.

We have four kids and one of 'em looks like a replica of him with my hair color. But it's really funny seeing it through her eyes and seeing her that I didn't realize how much of a deep thinker I was, even as a child.

So going back to about you, can you explain what is. Gestalt. And then do you have any German ancestry? 

I don't believe I do. I might have a little bit of Austrian in me, which is pretty [00:08:00] close.

It's a German word that loosely means whole and wholeness it's been around for almost a hundred years. It's not new, but it's more of a humanistic approach, to coaching or therapy

it's experiential, non-traditional. It's focusing on the here and now and becoming aware of our patterns and how they could be working against Us. And how we might shift them. It's about, finding those things from our past that might be blocking us in the here and now and essentially breaking free from those.

So it sounds like there's life coaching, a little bit of shadow work 

be layered and, there's so many certifications out there now, there's a lot of overlap but it's not your solution based. Plan.

It's trusting that each client has the answers within them, and how do I [00:09:00] guide them toward that or toward seeing it from a new perspective. 

The reason I started my podcast is to fix my fixer with coaching. 

Ah, yes. 

Here's all the different tools that other people have towards wellness.

That's what I learned in coaching as well. 

it'd be interesting to have several more tools than I have. 

Well, and there's so much more that I don't know? I've gone on to get other certifications I think all coaches find their style and what fits their magic potion 

Or their own, prescription around it. Like, you know, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Maybe it's more like a recipe, their personality 

that goes with 

And personality. Absolutely. And I've had some clients that are very solution based

you might approach them in a different way. But Gestalt again is being in the moment right here and right now. So what needs to [00:10:00] happen? Maybe we need to adapt to a more solution-based situation. 

Are you saying this is the German way of coaching a hundred years ago?

It was actually founded by, Fritz Pearl's, his wife, and another gentleman. I don't think they're even German. But they latched onto the word 'cause they like the meaning of that.

this modality was quite popular in the eighties. I don't know that it was necessarily a German thing.

So you faced your own adversity. 

You felt called to work in a field that aligns with you. You've had your own moment of shifting your limiting beliefs. Tell us about some of your clients or give us a formula to shift our own.

In a very general sense what can you give us as people you've coached and what would you give us kind of general here, try this on. 

I did a [00:11:00] TEDx talk about, neurolinguistic framing and the words we What I noticed, working with clients I, heard a lot of, I can't do that. For example, I had a client who was getting her own business up and running and she hurt her back was literally laid flat on her back. for weeks. She was really focused on, I can't do that and this needs to get done. so I asked her, well, what can you do? And she's like, well, I could actually pull up my laptop and start. Working on my website 'cause I need to update that a little bit, then that expanded to oh, well, I can start drafting a flyer for the retreat.

She wasn't limited, she was focused on those things and didn't see all the other things it could be as simple as changing a word, word became a mantra for me because, I [00:12:00] had moments or days where I didn't even know if I could get out of bed.

And so I'd ask myself, what can I do? Today I can brush my teeth, I can get up and brush my teeth. And then the next thing was like, I can get downstairs and sit on the couch for a while one day I took off those darn sweatpants signed up for an 1800 mile bike ride and started a new journey 

it started with asking myself, what can I do? Even in the really hard moments when things feel impossible, we have some ability to do something, and sometimes it's just one small thing toward that bigger thing. 

I think that's the same as working in math.

We're just so in the thick of it, and our teacher will tell us it's wrong, or we plug it in and it doesn't work right, and we're frustrated and we don't wanna do it anymore, we need to just [00:13:00] go eat a snack and then come back to it. Sometimes we need to have our teacher come and that can be the coach.

It's coming and looking at it from a different perspective, a higher perspective, where we're just in it and it makes all the difference to have that other perspective. To just show us that, there's another path.

And I love that. 

How many times is it an easy path too? And one of those is just duh. But you're just so in it that it feels, duh. 

It's amazing how much coaching can get you. It can bypass so much of that and get you there so much faster and further than you ever could on your own. And it aligns other things for you.

You end up aligning with other people and connecting with them, I just love coaching. It's just so much fun. And what's so fun about being a coach, I'm sure you've experienced this too, is how much it heals you. Oh my goodness. This stuff will come up for [00:14:00] them. And you're like, oh, that's stuff I need to work on too.

Okay. I'll put a note over here for myself 

Oh my gosh. There's so many wonderful things about it and I love the creativity behind it as well. And that's what I love about Gestalt is there's creativity behind it.

Putting someone through an experiment and, you know, we call 'em experiments. But it's an opportunity of like, okay, what if we looked at it from this perspective and it might seem so crazy and wacky in the moment, and then you're like, oh my gosh. It's incredible to see someone light up and.

They connected the dots and, it's certainly healing personally. Absolutely. 

It's giving them their creativity back 

mm-hmm.

I wanted to let you know that there are some amazing things happening behind the scenes here that I'm very excited about. The first one is I am opening my podcast up for [00:15:00] sponsorships, so if you are an aligned brand with wellness, reach out to me. You can find me wellness in every season.com/podcast.

Slash sponsor. I also have something going on for you listeners, I interview people who are aligned with wellness and they talk about different modalities I am making it so that you have the chance to experience it during a recorded episode, and other people get to experience it alongside you so that we can really see how it works instead of just this zoomed out experience.

We get to really zoom in and experience it. So you can find out more about that at wellness and every season.com/. Listener, wellness guest.

I love that. So what else do you have around limiting beliefs and getting our head above the water to [00:16:00] see, 

I think sometimes we get so focused on the obstacle and we don't realize that we have the power to pivot or navigate it in some way, I'll use myself as an example, I always wanted to, hike the Camino de Santiago in northern Spain.

A 500 mile. Pilgrimage, across northern, Spain I can't walk or backpack or hike that far anymore. My body's done, sadly, but I can still bike and I found a way to bike it I had a choice there 

I can't hike it. It can't be done. Or wait a minute, I can do it another way. Even if I got in the car and drove it, there's ways that's just an example of, obstacles are no longer obstacles.

Just something to navigate. Sometimes you have to pivot or go around [00:17:00] it or go over it or go through it it's all about that perspective. Where can I shift? 

I am gonna have to email him. There's a coach I've coached on the side and he has done the same thing pretty recently, 

I'll have to text him and be like, Hey, I know somebody else who did it, because the only reason why I know what it is is from him. He was talking about it while I was coaching. I'm like, okay, can you tell me what that is really quick and then we'll continue so fun.

And it sounds like it's a very spiritual experience 

Yes. It was one of the most challenging experiences of my life on every level. I wanted to quit after the first day. I was on my knees. Everything from the start to the end of the trip.

About 17 days felt nearly impossible. It just challenged me on every level, not just physically, mentally, emotionally, my environment, the surroundings, I lost my [00:18:00] phone. They couldn't find my bike. There just all things happening.

And again, I still had a choice how, the perspective I was gonna choose to view my experience through. When people ask me how was that experience? I'll say it was the worst experience of my life and I would never trade it for anything. 

Walk us through a little bit more of your journey. Most of it was mental, spiritual, physical, I feel like everything in life really boils down to what emotions are we attaching to it? What are we saying about ourselves?

What negative beliefs do we need to let go of? When we go through things like this, it really holds up that mirror to the ugly parts of ourselves that we need to let go of, that we need to maybe embrace and our self map that we need to update. So many beliefs about ourselves are no [00:19:00] longer true.

I was telling somebody the other day that I'll start to say something like, I have a low pain tolerance, and I'm like, no, I had four kids. I don't have a low pain tolerance. I used to, I don't anymore. But there's several things like that I'm sure you have even caught yourself saying, where you're like, wait, my body is revolting against what I'm saying.

It's apparently not true anymore, and I haven't realized it until it's coming out of my mouth. Have you ever had that moment where you're pausing and you're like, oh, 

yes. 

So tell, bring us more on this trip with you and some of the things that you've experienced.

You gave us a really good overview, but I feel like there are lessons that we need to learn that you have learned from your trip. 

I think this was a big lesson in letting go. I was always an overachiever. My trip down the Pacific coast [00:20:00] from Canada to Mexico, caught so much attention it probably goes back to childhood and needing that affirmation, that acknowledgement of like, good job, Rissa. Heading out on this trip to Spain, I kept searching for the next big thing.

I knew this wouldn't be an easy trip, I was going solo for 17 days. I didn't speak. Spanish. I took French in school. I, didn't really know much about Spain I was told it would be easy to navigate, so I didn't come as prepared as I would've, I listened to other people.

And the food wasn. My usual diet and there was just, so I lost my phone on the first day. When I arrived they couldn't find my bike. Then the next day I lost my phone I'm in a Spanish speaking country where I was told, oh, everyone speaks English there not true.

And it was a lesson in, humility. But it was that [00:21:00] tough rissa, that rissa trying to prove to the world, prove to herself. Like, I can still do hard things and I can still do it on my own and I don't need anyone. And again, I was brought to my and I remember after the first Day.

It was like in a movie. I walk into my first accommodation for that night. I'm caked in mud, head to toe I am just thirsty, exhausted, starving, probably dried tears on my face and this wonderful woman. Comes over I just start crying. She sits me down, gets me water.

It didn't matter that I was caked in mud and in this beautiful white, modern hotel 'cause I happen to be staying in a bigger city that first night, Pamona I'm muddying up their beautiful white marble entryway. I make it up to my hotel [00:22:00] room. It was like in the movies, I start sliding down the wall, my back to the wall, and hang my head I'm bawling and I'm like, I can't do it.

There's no way. I was faced with the first time in my life of what if I can't do it. Marissa could always do everything. And now I'm like. What if I can't? It was really a letting go. And after that day, I decided I'm gonna get back on my bike tomorrow, but if I can't do it, that's okay.

And then I got through one more day, and the next day I said, I'm gonna get back on my bike today, but if I can't do it, that's okay. It was really a lesson in letting go, letting go of old parts of self that didn't serve me anymore. I don't have to do it all. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I don't have to prove anything to anyone anymore. So I came home with a different outlook from then on of [00:23:00] I don't have to do hard bike rides anymore.

I wanna do fun bike rides. 

Yeah. Have you done fun ones since then? They're much more leisurely now. Yes. It's interesting. I am the same way. My husband laughs at it because if I am given a way out, then I can do the thing knowing that I have this backdoor.

What is that? 

It's like giving ourselves the grace of it's okay. Whatever you decide, 

I always thought for me it's because I didn't have the safety net growing up. Knowing that if I have it now, I can fall back on that.

Now I can really do this. It's like someone's got my back that whole idea. And it definitely changed your mindset of, I am here to do this, but if I don't, either way I'm experiencing this.

Dive into the reasons why you were there and start to enjoy [00:24:00] yourself. It sounds like you had to be there and rely on the people. You did the hard things, but you still had.

To create a village to make it that you can do that and ask for help. 

We often have a hard time asking for help. 

Oh, I'll give it instantly, but it's hard to ask for help. 

Yeah, absolutely. It's empowering. To make the decisions based on just kind of going back a little bit it's empowering to know okay, I get to choose today.

I get to choose, okay, I'm gonna get back on my bike, or I'm not. It's okay. Either way. There's something empowering about that. Whereas, no, I have to do this, this is, what I need to do. That feels almost opposite, like it's taking some power away or something. 

I wonder for the artists that are amazing, like Michelangelo, you can see the passion [00:25:00] more than the have to. Of course none of us were alive during his time to be able to knock on that door.

But you can tell when passion comes through with things, compared to when you're just forcing yourself to do it. Oh yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Even if it's like going back to school days you made sure that was gonna be an a paper and you were annoyed when the teacher called you out because they realized you weren't passionate about it they know you well enough to say

you can dig deeper. 

Yeah. 

I'm that type where if I'm going for that, A, I had better get that A, I have the workaholic tendency, so I have to really focus on unplugging.

Mm-hmm. And that is my thing, I really focus on wellness. I have a life coaching certification, my degree in applied health. I focus on the eight dimensions of wellness. But I'm realizing how much I need to focus on that more than doing the work.

In my business and in coaching when I'm taking care of me, then I can show up, [00:26:00] then I can have that passion. 

Mm-hmm. 

And it sounds like that's very much you, especially when you were on your bike, this needs to come from a place of passion and me discovering myself 

I'm hoping that everybody listening to this can resonate with that, with wherever they're at in life. We've all been in that spot where we just feel stuck, but we've done it to ourselves and we are so stuck in that I should do this. Should, is the worst cuss word out there, let's be honest.

But I should be doing this instead of what if, and that curiosity you talked about from the very beginning. 

I love asking myself what do I want to do, not. What should I do? I've had my coach say that to me, you need to 

bring in more of the kid and what do you want to do?

And it's like, that's hard. Sometimes it feels a little ugh. 

that. 

Definitely. 

that's what I love about coaching it really gets through, let's [00:27:00] drill down deep until you're lighting up.

There's this musician that my husband and I love thinking about him, brings me back to high school days. He was going into law school and realized that it did not align for him. 

Could you imagine the life trajectory if he followed that path he was not passionate about, that his family wanted him to do?

They thought he would never make money as a musician. He is well known. And there are so many stories like that out in the world. And yes, you can pivot at any point along the road, but how much less heartbreak would there be if you did it much earlier on you had that pivot,

coach, that really good friend, whoever beside you to help you look in the mirror. And decide my passion lies here. And there's so many [00:28:00] times that we talk about, especially as Americans, going into this degree path, career path, trade school path because it's going to be lucrative instead of follow your passion and the money will follow you.

I have a degree, in an area I don't even use geography. 

Right? 

I love maps. That's one of my favorite things to do with my clients is when, they say I can't, or I don't know.

I say, well, I'm gonna challenge you here. And I love, like you said, digging in a little deeper. 

You get lower than that, and the creativity comes if. I took away all these constraints that I am putting on myself and that I'm saying other people are putting on me, but maybe I haven't really had that conversation with them.

I just feel like society does that or family does this, we all have that where we're like, this person [00:29:00] feels this way about me. Have we ever asked them to be sure? Have you ever had people whispering behind you and you're like, it has to be about me.

What is the likelihood that you're even on their radar, that they even care about you in that moment? Not in a bad way or good way, just very neutral. They don't care about you in that moment. And when we dig deeper into what actually lights us up.

We're worried that it's going to be something sinful in the sugary type of way where No, it's actually something that lights you up so much that you are shining so brightly that you're lighting other people up. And it's so hard because you can focus on the negativity in the world and you can be afraid to.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's where being seen how we often are afraid to be seen. 

Do you remember the first time you were naked in front of your significant other,

When was the last time you did that [00:30:00] In front of a mirror. Just you in the mirror. 

Yeah, 

it's a lot. And that can be scary, but imagine doing that spiritually with yourself and emotionally. That's a whole other thing. Seeing your wounds some that you've inflicted on yourself and remembering the lessons you've learned.

Breathe through that the lessons that you've learned and that it's caused you to become who you are today and use them for good to help other people. There's so much good that can come from even the negative thinking you have about yourself. A lot of them are limiting beliefs, false beliefs.

They are maybe things that you haven't allowed yourself to evolve past you're still stuck on the, I made this mistake 15 years ago, type of thing. It's hard. And you don't have to make life harder than it already is on ourselves.

Absolutely. And even interjects from childhood of [00:31:00] beliefs that were bestowed upon us, when we're adults, we don't have to believe those anymore. Those aren't even our beliefs. 

Like you're shy. 

What 

would you say about yourself now? 

I would say I have more introverted tendencies, connection is one of my top values, so I love to connect with people on deeper levels, have conversations like you and I are having I appreciate, the one-on-one or the smaller groups the deeper connections. You remember those really intimate moments or those, things that stuck out for you.

Am I shy? No, but I like connecting on a more, deeper and personal level.

That makes sense to me. Have you heard the term, the extroverted introvert, where you're extroverted if it's like groups of three? I wonder if most people who say that are also more soft spoken.

Oh [00:32:00] yeah. Perhaps for me it's the case. If I'm in a large enough group, I can't even hear myself speak 

yeah. 

Some people are like, wow, I didn't realize how snarky you are now you see the star side. 

Oh 

my gosh. 

Oh my God. Writing my book, I discovered I have a dark humor about me, I kind of like that. I named my tumor Bubba, and he's a character in my book and he's hilarious. It's been a journey of embracing all these parts of myself that I haven't really let, play a role in the past.

You gave a lot of it, meaning, I feel like when we do that, we're able to let it go. I'm definitely excited to read that book. There's a lot of swearing. 

Fair warning. 

It kind of goes with dark humor though, doesn't it? Yes. Tell us where to find your book. It's the Road Unpaved.

The road Unpaved, border to border with a brain tumor and a bike. And you can find it on [00:33:00] Amazon. It's on paperback ebook and. Audiobook and I'm the narrator for the audiobook. Or you can go to my website or your local bookstore and ask them to order it, what is your website? My website is Risa, RISA, August, just like the month. Risa august.com. 

Is there any last thought you wanna leave us with as we close out? 

So if you're feeling stuck in a moment that's challenging, you ask yourself, what can I do?

I love that opens up your mind all over again when it's starting to shut down. Thank you for being on and for sharing so much wisdom. This is what I love doing is interviewing people because there's always a journey that led them to where they are.

There have been dark moments that we can learn from and bright moments that we can learn from. It's that great reminder that we are not [00:34:00] alone on our path and that there are hands reaching out to help us. If you need deeper than just this beautiful story and these concepts that you can mull over and practice yourself, reach out Theresa.

She would love to help you, and she has lots of. Life experience that she lends to training people that she's coached. Thank you for sharing this because we all know people who are struggling and really that's that reminder to be kind because we are all going through trials and chances are they're the hardest trials we've experienced yet.

So that reminder to be kind and also share this episode. Beautiful. And thanks for having me, Anna. What a pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope you found the answers you needed, and had some amazing [00:35:00] aha moments. Please share this episode with others because it helps us align ourselves and then better align the world so that we can seek the healing that we really are looking for as part of the legal language.

I am a certified life coach with a Bachelor's in Applied Health. This is general advice. Take it as such. See you in the next episode.