Sobriety Unleashed: Club 164's Controversial Quest for a New Narrative

Join us for an intriguing episode as Brock Anderson, founder of Club 164, delves into the controversial topics surrounding its inception and placement in the Annapolis recovery community. Discover how Club 164 aims to change societal norms around sobriety, making it a mainstream lifestyle choice. Explore the concerns raised by the recovery community and the misconceptions about the club's relationship with Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and other 12-Step programs. Uncover the innovative strategies and diverse offerings of Club 164, from social activities to 12-step meetings, that are reshaping the concept of living sober. We hope you are curious by the passion and commitment driving this transformative movement. Don't miss out on this thought-provoking conversation. Tune in now and gain a fresh perspective on the power of sobriety at Club 164.

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Transcript

Luke DeBoy: 0:08

Welcome to A Therapist Buddhist in you, brought to you by the Recovery Collective in Annapolis, maryland. Today we dive into the world of Club 164, a one-of-a-kind nonprofit organization that is reshaping the recovery landscape in our community. I'm Luke DeBoy and I'm joined by co-host Saul Maul, and together we'll be your guides to an intriguing journey of all things health and wellness. But before we delve into a fascinating world of Club 164, let's introduce our guest today, brock Anderson, the founder of this 501C3 Charitable Foundation. Hey, welcome, brock.

Brock Anderson: 0:39

Thanks for having me.

Luke DeBoy: 0:42

Thanks for joining us, and you're part of the Annapolis community and we're based out in Annapolis, where the Recovery Collective is, and a lot of our recovery is here in Annapolis as well. So tell us a little bit about this Club 164. What inspired, what sparked this journey of in the recovery community here in Annapolis, maryland?

Brock Anderson: 1:02

Yeah, okay, I mean, I'll do my best. So I think what really probably drove the idea of Club 164 was I'm kind of being a business guy, I'm kind of a numbers guy and I really, really am passionate about the program, about Cawke's Anonymous, and I did the program the way it was shown to me, which is basically it's a 12-step program and I had a gentleman who was willing to make it very simple for me and walk me through the process of the 12 steps as they're outlining that book, and I got what they told me I'd get. I got a life For the first time in my life. I felt completely free. I felt like I finally belonged here. I felt like I finally knew my purpose. Just the 12 steps just did for me something that was spectacular.

Brock Anderson: 1:59

So I've always felt like, ever since I got sober years ago, I always felt that basically I can't give back enough, and so, mainly throughout the years, my main way of giving back was be very supportive in meetings, more importantly, take people through those 12 steps. But as I was going back to how I started, as I was being a businessman, I would drive around in the restaurant business and I'd be driving to the restaurants and what would go through my head is it just seemed like, for whatever reason, the success rate in the program was not going in the right direction. So then I did a little more homework and started looking at some numbers and realized it actually isn't going in the right direction. And I actually just had a coincidence has nothing to do with this podcast, I just always try to keep up on it. I just looked for some reason just three weeks ago and an example would be is AA peaked in 2001. So that was its peak membership level and it's about 5% down today from where it was in 2001. And in the beginning, as we all know, in those first 16 years they were at about a 20% growth rate.

Brock Anderson: 3:17

So when I start looking at those numbers to me just kind of also having that business mindset I just immediately say well, if we don't change something I shouldn't even say change something, because I firmly believe alcoholics and anonymous is the way to get sober If we don't try something different. Well, somewhere we're missing. It is, I guess, the best way to put it. Where we're missing, we've lost something that they had either back in the early days or stuff like that. And what kind of came into my mind again. It's kind of weird how it blended in with my professional life is. Is there anything that maybe I could do with my professional experience? And when I say I, I mean I'm having these conversations kind of as funny as it sounds, with my higher power in the car right as I'm driving.

Luke DeBoy: 4:10

The relationship.

Brock Anderson: 4:12

And is there anything I can do with my professional experience to maybe try something different? That's kind of where the seed, I think, started to come for club 164 is. I just kind of started playing with it mentally with my higher power for quite a while it was. What became apparent is well, first of all, we have no facilities that I was aware of and have moved around quite a bit in subriety. We have no facilities that are geared towards people that don't want to drink or use, that are state-of-the-art and equal to the facilities that are out there for everyone else.

Luke DeBoy: 4:56

So that aren't church basements, that aren't quote-unquote clubhouses that have a little bit more to it.

Brock Anderson: 5:02

Yeah, it's almost more. But more importantly, that people feel like they have their own business to walk into. So that was really kind of the one differentiator from those is what went through my mind is that why don't we have our own facilities that we operate like a business? So when people walk in they feel like wow. For example, when we get a new counterperson, we try to train them that no, this isn't, this is a customer, this is a guest right. So to give the person coming in not only a feeling of do they have a state-of-the-art environment, but they're treated very, very well, also like other people are.

Brock Anderson: 5:48

That's kind of what the seed that started the idea of Clubwood 64, and then it's just kind of you know, then, with the help of a lot of other people, starting to get involved and picking their brain and what would work and what would work, and then financially, the amount of people that stepped up is crazy. I started talking with some of the people that have helped us in the restaurant business architects and then you know the architect did all the plans for free. He said I'll do those. So the collective community, not just recovery, but the amount of people, even not in recovery, that support what's going on over there, because they kind of see the purpose of just finally you know if we're ever going to. Okay, let me back up here quick, I guess, to give you an example of how I look at it. Smoking cigarettes was cool at one time, but they've done such a great job of changing the narrative.

Luke DeBoy: 6:43

And the culture.

Brock Anderson: 6:44

And the culture that today people understand smoking, and it's not that people who smoke, we all look and frown on them, but the narratives changed a little bit where it's not maybe cool anymore. Right To me, the only way we're I guess the idea of Club 1st and 4th is to take a long term approach, to look whether people get sober today or not. That's up to AA, but it's to take a long term approach. The idea of Club 1st and 4th is to change the narrative on just living sober. So hopefully in 30, 40 years it becomes apparent to people that maybe it's not too right now, that there's a lot of people out there that don't drink and they just live their lives very happy and you know where? Maybe you could go to a neighborhood party 30 years from now and there's not alcohol there just because those group of people don't drink. So it's really more about changing the narrative and of living life sober.

Brock Anderson: 7:35

But I felt like we were never going to be able to do that unless we started providing facilities. As I like to say, we weren't even putting a team on the field to create that culture. So to me that's kind of what we're trying to do at Club 1st and 4th is put a team on the field that we now at least, can give people, as the years go on, an option that if you want to drink, great, and if you don't want to drink, there's also just equally as much to do on that side.

Luke DeBoy: 8:02

The way you're explaining it, I can understand. I have my recovery hat on with my spiritual principles that I do my best to live by, and then I now have this business entrepreneurial hat and I thought about the recovery collective and making this parallel of when did this became a vision. An idea for me, and then part of it for my journey was oh, this is a need. I try to create some things that were a need that I didn't feel exist in other aspects of therapy and treatment and things like that, and that's kind of what I'm hearing. You say it's, here's an idea. You're in the car, and then it became more obvious and apparent that no, this should be a need is why I hear it.

Zaw Maw: 8:46

Yeah, I like the way you started out with the numbers. I like numbers too, and I wanted to ask this question, not entirely related to club 164, maybe it is too, but like why do you think there's a reference to the success rate of AA in the beginning days and it dropped over the years, and why do you think that is the case? Why did it start dropping?

Brock Anderson: 10:20

Well. So now we're going to get into so I guess what you're asking me. Now I'll try and make sure I'm clear on which hat I'm talking from. On my recovery side.

Brock Anderson: 10:30

First of all, I firmly believe that alcoholics anonymous in the 12 steps is by far the only proven method so far that's ever been come out with of how you get sober, or your best chance at getting sober, staying sober and living happy, as I like this. The reason I use the word proven I'm sure people have gotten sober many, many ways. Right, I run into people they say I got sober by going to church or I got, and I think that's wonderful. But what I kind of try to say is but that's not a proven way. So in other words, if you go, start trying to take everyone else to get sober through church, that track record hasn't been proven and it may not. So that's why I like to kind of use the word proven. I do believe there's been nothing out there that's ever been found that has worked as well as the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous to get someone sober.

Brock Anderson: 11:22

Now to your question. Now I'm going to share opinions, which I try when I'm in my recovery world. I do everything I can and not share opinions, but since you asked a question, and just for you.

Luke DeBoy: 11:31

This is a collective solution to health and wellness. This is part of our vision and mission we highlight certain things and we do deep dives in all aspects of collective solution to health and wellness. So thank you for separating. Yes.

Brock Anderson: 11:44

My opinion on the answer to your question is I think we've gotten away from AA. In other words, I go to meetings. I'm probably in at least one to two meetings a day, and in kind of the meetings that I regularly go to. We hear the steps frequently, but I will tell you, I was just down in Florida, for example, about a month ago, and I go to meetings every day wherever I'm at, and so I was in a meeting every day in Florida, and until I mentioned the 12 steps, they were never mentioned.

Luke DeBoy: 12:14

I'm cringing Go ahead.

Brock Anderson: 12:16

So I think one of the things I kind of when I'm with my sponsors or something, what we talk about, and I don't think it's been done by any, I think it's human nature, in other words, what I try to share is so AA now has been around 85 years, right? So my, I kind of look at it as if you put 85 of us in a circle and I whisper something in your ear and we let it go all the way around. You know what's happened, that secret? Well, obviously, it's nowhere near what it was. Well then, to me it's only almost even logical that there's a chance that's happened with alcoholics and autonomous Right. So, unfortunately, you know there is a, there is a program, the directions have been written down as the 12 steps, but it would almost only make sense that you know, over the years, that you know possibly we've wandered off from the original intent or the success of what made the program work. Whereas that's maybe you know why I'm sitting in meetings and I hear you never recover, for example, right, you're always recovering, but on the third page of the book it says thousands of stories of men who have recovered from alcoholism. That's just a small example of where I sit and go, wow, why did we start even debating this when they figured?

Brock Anderson: 13:35

You know, when the people started the program feel one way. I remember I went to my first meetings for my first year. I went to about 365, at least I say more like 1000, because I didn't even work my first six months. And it makes sense, right, because I'm in those meetings and if I don't know any better, I'm walking into an alcoholics and autonomous meeting. So I just feel like everything I'm here and it's got to be this is AA, what it is right. And you know what I found out when I finally got my sponsor, who made it real simple, and Brock, there's a program. They wrote it down. You want to do it is.

Brock Anderson: 14:05

I was pretty surprised at the amount of stuff as I went through the actual program in the book as it was designed in 1939. Some of the things that are far different what I would hear in those rooms on a regular basis. So that's my opinion as to why we possibly aren't having a success rate. That they did at one time is, you know, I just think, unfortunately, and a lot of it's just human nature we just we've just the message has just gotten garbled. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases over the last, it's not not by any intent, it's not that anyone has any bad intentions, or or it's just kind of human nature. So that's the other subliminal message behind club 164. There is a subliminal message going on there. The name of the club is 164, which is obviously the first 164 pages of the big book. All the art on the wall, if people look at it right, are all quotes from the first 164 page of the big book.

Brock Anderson: 15:07

So there is a little subliminal hidden message going on at that subliminal not so subliminal, yeah, but but at that club to kind of drive people maybe back to just what's worked for many, many, many years. But that's I guess. Hopefully I answered your question.

Zaw Maw: 15:25

I appreciate the answer and I asked that question for a couple of reasons and I feel like I'm having a better understanding of club 164 based on your first answer as well. Is that my opinion too is that the program never stopped working. The program always worked. But then there are a couple of principles from the program, which is attraction rather than promotion, and also that I cannot make anybody sober the willingness to come from the person.

Zaw Maw: 15:47

But in my experience I thought I had the willingness, but then I didn't have any examples that I could look up to. I feel like that's the mission of you that if there is a group of community who are sober and also working the steps and then living the program, that becomes like an inspiration for people to look, because it's not anybody's fault when they come to a meeting and nobody's working the steps and that newcomer has decided not to work the steps because he hasn't seen any example.

Zaw Maw: 16:12

So, that's my understanding of what I'm hearing.

Luke DeBoy: 16:15

Absolutely yeah, and this is either a compliment or not, but you certainly have some book thumbper tendencies. And this idea or this need. Whether it's in 12 step recovery or not, there's this need for recovery, fellowship and fun and enjoyment, which is what the club 164 is certainly doing. So the not so subliminal messages of recovery, of specifically 12 set recovery. I'm sure there are some people in this community that are like, well, you're a big book thumper, but where's the separation of 12 step and this club?

Brock Anderson: 16:54

Yeah. So that's definitely, I think, a struggle for a lot of people and I think if you go on a regular basis you see it very clearly. The way that people I think finally have and slowly I think that some of those individuals are coming around the way we look at it is we're just the church for a meetings, In other words a means, come to us and they say, can we rent space in your facility to do our meetings? And we say, absolutely the best way I describe it to people is whether it's a nonprofit church or for profit church, the church has its own set of rules that they live by on a daily basis and they're just renting some space to you for that hour to do. That's really more the idea of clubs. So club 164, we're on our own mission to kind of just. We don't ever come close to ever claiming that club 164 will get you sober. Club 164 is a way to get sober. The purpose of club 164 is very simple to give people, whether in recovery or not, who just or who don't want to drink or drug, to have a fun state of the art environment to relax and enjoy. And then a groups have come to us and say well, can we rent space there because we think you'd be a great venue to do our meetings in, and that's the setup, more of club 164 and kind of how it works.

Brock Anderson: 18:14

On that note, putting my business hat back on. So here's another thing I looked up recently. There's 60,000 groups in the United States, so I did some this. You can say, Brock, you're such a quack, and this is the kind of stuff I like to think about.

Brock Anderson: 18:31

So I said, well, let's just say 20% or 25% of those groups are in churches. Let's say the other ones are in club houses or community centers. But so that would leave us 15,000 groups, and if each of those groups is paying 100 bucks a month for their meeting, it came to like I could do the math again. I forget the math, but it's millions of dollars a year that AA is basically paying to churches for rent that we don't get any, any payback from. So in other words, when I'm at a church and I put a dollar in the basket, maybe 20% of that's going to get to GSR, but most likely the other 60 80% is going to rent. Right, so my brain works Well. Why wouldn't we then also as a community, if we could build facilities. Why wouldn't we take? Because I can tell you this, every dollar that goes in a basket at club 164, every penny goes back to fighting the illness that we're all there for in the first place.

Luke DeBoy: 19:40

So the basket of the 12-step meeting. So what happens?

Brock Anderson: 19:43

is yeah, but so let's look at that. So the way the meetings pay rent is they pay rent 70% of whatever's in the basket. So the nice thing about that, in our opinion, is we've had people come to us who would never be able to start their own meeting because they don't know if they're gonna have any following right. Well, they come to us and we say, yeah, the spots open, go ahead and try it. And they don't have to worry about it, because if they only collect three bucks in the basket, 70% pays the rent, so that the club gets what two bucks or you know whatever, and the other buck goes to whoever they send it to in their, you know, gsr.

Luke DeBoy: 20:20

Or to pay coffee.

Brock Anderson: 20:21

Right. So, first of all, we're allowing, having this setup allows many groups that would have never got off the board to have an ability to do that. The second thing is, on most of the 80 meetings at the club, yes, so 70% of the basket pays rent which they got to pay at any facility, true, right, and then the other 30%, but the difference is the rent they're paying here is totally it's going to a nonprofit, that its whole purpose is set up to serve the non-drinking, non-using community. So that's another way my brain kind of works is I sit here and go. Well then, why wouldn't we have state of the art facilities that kind of? You know are there for sobriety and that's their whole purpose. Why would we not want to reinvest that 17 million in facilities for people who want to live life sober, if we can conquer two birds with one stone, than necessarily just give it away to individuals who have, you know, they have their own mission. It's not that they have a bad mission, but they have their own mission. And so that's another one of kind of the mindset stuff that runs through my mind. Now I do want to say for the record, I don't take a dime, and Bill, who's there every day from probably 5 am to 1 pm, doesn't take a dime In his role. He runs it, okay, he runs it. So even at the top in our nonprofit there's no, it's all service. So that's the other nice thing is literally every dollar. There's no salaries, and then the only people that do make money at Club 164 are the people who work the counters or the people who work in daycare, and they're usually in recovery. So we're also now employing people early in recovery. Usually we're giving them jobs. So the Club 164, in my opinion, it's just.

Brock Anderson: 22:18

There's a number of different angles that we're coming at it from. The first and foremost, though, being is change in the narrative on being sober. So one of our goals this year we were just talking about is we want to get middle schools in there for functions and we want to get elementary schools in there for functions, because we can close the door and AA actually doesn't have to enter through the club. They can actually enter through a different door and still achieve their purpose of running the space. And the idea kind of our minds about is if we can start getting them in younger and then, you figure, four or five parents will come with them as chaperones, then we're starting to expose at a very young age and even some of the parents who may have not even been aware this lifestyle is out there. We're going to start hopefully exposing people to at a young age that there is sobriety out there.

Luke DeBoy: 23:07

And I think it's important to highlight that's the nonprofits. Absolutely, and it sounds like the meetings understand hey, 70% is for this nonprofit, that we roll back into nonprofit recovery related things.

Brock Anderson: 23:23

I don't even think they look as that. I think they just look as 70% is for rent. Yeah, I don't even think that. Which is which is what they'll pay wherever they go and. And. But hopefully, maybe after this podcast, people will start to understand a little more that yeah, it's rent. But if we have a choice of giving our rent to a facility that that was completely built by donated funds and people of our world, or given rent to this church who really God bless them they have their own mission, but we're not really then I don't know would make more sense to me to give our rent to someone who's going to completely give it all back to our lifestyle.

Luke DeBoy: 23:58

Do you remember what your vision statement was from May of 2019?

Brock Anderson: 24:03

Well, I know, today it's make sobriety fun. Okay, I'll read it to you. Yeah, go ahead.

Luke DeBoy: 24:08

Club 164 is designed to provide entertainment and social outlet for people who choose to live life sober. The facility will be comprised of a full non alcohol bar, billiards, shuffleboard, ping pong lounge area, state-of-the-art audio visual system and 12-set meeting space. The club will host daily social activities, annual celebrations such as holidays or similar events, and 12-step meetings.

Brock Anderson: 24:33

So see how far we've come. We managed to sum all that up in three words make sobriety fun.

Luke DeBoy: 24:38

That's it, that's it. That's awesome, yeah, but I do remember that actually, yeah, yeah absolutely and, coming from a world of treatment and recovery and, before this, care and prevention of injuries, the idea of getting younger people involved.

Brock Anderson: 24:53

So what does that look like in the future with the middle school and so the idea behind that is, again, as I like to say, if club 164 ever achieves its goal, I'm going to be dead because we're. The idea of club 164 is to start changing the narrative, as I've said, so almost like turning a cruise ship right. So, ideally, there's not supposed to be just one club 164. Ideally, if the vision was hit, you would have club 164 is throughout the country right, and create almost a movement like they did in other things, whether it's smoking or a movement of where we're, all the sudden, the sober lifestyle, whether you wanted to partake in it or not, was now much more a part of the mainstream environment, where it was now more out there. Just you know where's.

Brock Anderson: 25:42

The example I give is I raised three kids in this area and I have no problem with people drinking. Alcohol has never been the problem, I'm the problem but, and so we would go to neighborhood parties, and even then, when you would say now I don't drink, when someone offered you a beer, there was a little pause, right. So the idea behind the long-term vision is to get rid of that pause. And so the idea of getting them in younger is, you know, all the sudden, we just start exposing younger people to the fact that there are facilities out there that their big thing is they just don't want to drink, they don't drink, they don't, you know, and that norm, that it's the norm to them no, I don't smoke yeah, exactly just that, and but they don't.

Brock Anderson: 26:23

There's nowhere really right now I can think of that. You can take really anyone, or even myself. That was kind of one of the driving force. I started thinking, well, where could I go that state-of-the-art that is equal to the facilities that are out there for just other uses, whether it be fitness centers, restaurants, bars, entertainment? Where could I go today if I wanted to that? That the focus really is just being sober, and there wasn't any, which to me, that's what I'm saying. So the idea of club 164 is to just start changing the narrative slowly, but we're not going to be able to do that, and so you get them in young. But I'm also hoping, if you get them in young, like I said, they're gonna have some chaperones with them, right? So let's say, 10 chaperones come and we just get one parent who just it never even occurred to them that not drinking was just something that was even done welcome to my world as a therapist yeah, right.

Brock Anderson: 27:25

And so then we're achieving our goal right, because, for example, this year one of our big movements is gonna be we're gonna be doing tailgates at all the home Navy games, nice, and we're gonna have the big club one sewer flag, you know, and we'll put out on social media where we're at we're gonna be doing the burgers dogs again. It's all about infiltrating sobriety into the mainstream, kind of. So we're not gonna be out in the parking lot saying we're sober, waving our arms, but it's about infiltrating sobriety. Take people who are trying to get sober, let them realize it can be done. But as important almost on the club 164 side is to just again continue to. And if we can get three people in that parking lot who go who are those guys, you know then we're slowly kind of transition.

Luke DeBoy: 28:12

To me, it's the fine line that the way you're saying it is not a fine line of attraction rather than promotion. You're using a 12 step principle and using it for this nonprofit. They go very parallel together Absolutely, and sometimes it can be confusing to people, but it's not the way you're explaining it.

Zaw Maw: 28:29

Yeah. So you're very passionate about the fellowship and AA and the program and I can sense it. And I am quite passionate about fellowship too. Not sure if as high as you are, but one thing that I feel super grateful for about the fellowship it's the fact that it is so unique because, as you were talking about AA, because it was never part of my culture and I grew up in a different country. And then to connect that with what you're saying about changing the narrative of people who are sober, making the fun, because for me I knew people who had no history of drug user drinking and they're religious people and they don't drink, and I don't wanna belong to that group.

Zaw Maw: 29:08

Life seems boring, but then something special about the fellowship is that people who have gone through difficult stuff hit bottom and they come out stronger on the other side.

Zaw Maw: 29:16

To me that's where the attraction is. So for me there's something more powerful about that and because the narrative is different back home Like if you are a good person, you don't drink and that kept me in the dark for a long time that I felt like I was a really bad person for drinking. Everybody else has figured it out, but I haven't figured it out. So for me, that the growth there is the better of like. This is an illness that we suffer from and there is a way to get recovered from it and having a fellowship. And then I do go to club 164 quite often. I haven't been to a lot of meetings there, but I do go there to play ping pong, which has been fun, and that's been really true in my alcoholism and recovery too, that connection being the opposite of addiction, because there are activities in my life which I thought I needed to be drunk to do it and that limited me not to be in recovery.

Brock Anderson: 30:09

You bring up a great point and I guess, as long as I have the opportunity, I'll say it here is yeah, the meetings. I think a lot of people out there one of the big miscoaches is, you know, if I lived in Severna Park and I had my meetings I go to. Well, that's where I keep going to meetings right, because that's AA. I think some people, you know, maybe think that the club is about trying to take everyone there's a fear.

Brock Anderson: 30:36

And yeah, and I'll be the first to say that you know my life's pretty good and. But what I would like knowing in Severna Park, if I was out there going to my meetings, is number one. On holidays it's nice knowing there's a place in here that maybe I can go kill an hour with, you know, a bunch of other people having a good time. But also, let's say, a newcomer comes into my meeting in Severna Park. To me it's an asset in that way too, because you know I can talk with them, work on. Maybe I'm even going to sponsor them and take them through the steps. But I can say now look also. A lot of times I know it's early on, it's a little boring or it can be a little there is a place downtown or down in Annapolis that you know, since you don't work yet or anything, you probably have a lot of fun at. So it's also a tool that I can use now If I am in recovery and I'm at meetings, whether it's Glen Burnie or Pasadena or Arnold or Annapolis.

Brock Anderson: 31:25

But the club was never designed, nor does it have any desire. Aa is a separate entity there, whether there's 10 people in the AA meeting at the club or whether there's 100 or whether there's 20, that's great. That has no bearing at all on club 164 and what the club is trying to achieve, and so that's. I guess I'll just take this moment to make that clear that that's how we look at it. We're not. We don't get involved.

Brock Anderson: 31:53

As a matter of fact, I intentionally stay off any group consciousness at the club. Those meetings we do everything we can to stay away from. Now I attend the meetings as a member of Alcauque's Anonymous, but we do everything we can as a club to not get involved in any way, shape or form in how the meetings are operated, how they run, what their. We don't want any part of that. So I did want to kind of just say that, make that clear that that's kind of our view on AA at the club is they're their own entity and whether they have 10 people in their meeting or 100 really makes zero difference to us.

Luke DeBoy: 32:29

I talked to people in the recovery community and you highlighted a concern, and one of the assumptions I often hear is well, man, they're taking all these members to the club and I've certainly gone to meetings that used to have 20, 30, 40 members and now there might be a five or 10. I don't see those 20, 30 members at the club. At that same time, at that hour, covid happened and changes happen and just like the attraction of this non, I'm calling it a nonprofit to separate it from.

Brock Anderson: 33:00

I think it's great.

Luke DeBoy: 33:01

Is that man? I'm guilty at my home group that there's a person that's come three times and I didn't introduce myself. Well, how is that attracting to the individual? So we have to do that.

Brock Anderson: 33:12

Yeah, it's. You know, I think that's what the club is hopefully over time in this area and I think actually I gotta say I think we're 80% home. I think there's 20% holdouts out there that are still fighting it a little bit, but hopefully what everyone will realize is the nonprofit is like it's just meant to be a tool for everyone, whether you're just in society and you don't drink or drug, or whether you are out there in the fellowship or in AA somewhere, and it's just, it's just meant to be a tool. So, like you just said, if I run into a newcomer at my home group, I can talk with them. I can even degree to sponsor them. We can agree to start getting together and doing the steps.

Brock Anderson: 33:54

But it's a nice tool for me to tell this new guy now, look, we got something great in this area right that a lot of places don't have, because it's sometimes you're bored when you're new. There's this place, club 164, they're open from 10 to 10. Their whole focus is just being sober, so you might find that you can kill a few hours there and enjoy yourself. So yeah, I think that's actually finally getting out there. We definitely have some people in the area who are still holding out, but hopefully, as time goes on, we'll continue to kind of get everyone to understand exactly what we're trying to do.

Luke DeBoy: 34:28

My first sponsor was very clear to me. His experience of what a good meeting was was the big book in the steps, because I might hear someone say a whole bunch of stuff in their version but it might not be 12 steps. So I tend to gravitate towards 12 step meetings literature meetings, tradition meetings. And then he said if you don't hear a higher power share in a meeting, then it's not a meeting of alcoholics anonymous. So that's always resonated with me. And whether that's in a church basement, there used to be some meetings in town years ago that were in bars.

Brock Anderson: 35:02

That's there you go, that's right.

Luke DeBoy: 35:03

What is the message that I need to hear? And I think part of the dissension of attendance is it's our job as members of a 12 step fellowship to talk about 12 steps.

Brock Anderson: 35:16

Well, now I will say and this isn't, it's not putting the non private aid, but I will say remember how the whole idea kind of came about of AA. The first seed that was planted was that the numbers were going backwards. Right, the one thing I will say we are witnessing in the, at the nonprofit, when I talk to the AA groups, there are busy times in the meeting, and I think that might have to do, though, is some of what we started this conversation with is it is fun walking in there, right? So if you're a newer person in recovery, right, and you walk into the club today to go to your meeting, there is like wow, kind of effect. Right, versus, when I was new and I walked into the, you know whether it's the basement or the community or wherever right, it was just kind of okay, I'm here and we are noticing.

Brock Anderson: 36:15

I'll give you an example the AA group shared with me that in the months of and I haven't even kept track all year, but in the months of February and March there was over 21 year celebrations in that building, in those meetings that take place there. So that's maybe does say something that you know, hopefully, the whole reason. Going back to how we start this conversation, of kind of the idea of can we kick a little maybe 21st century in here? You know, it took just the environment. It may be grabbing hold a little bit, which is kind of exciting as well, just kind of exciting as well.

Zaw Maw: 36:51

Yeah, yeah, I'm really happy that we got a chance to get together and I appreciate you. You know, taking space and then sharing what you had to share really clarify so many things. And what jumped out to me from this conversation is about the fact that I truly believe that spiritual principles are fundamentally universal. You know, it doesn't matter which religion, which practice you do, and the most important thing that I've seen is the aspect of service. So that's why he still exists today. You know, that's also why some religions still exist today, and I hear that a lot in your what you have said about being of service, as long as that's in the forefront of our mind. You know, higher powers got her back in a way. But then one thing that I have heard in the rooms too, is about Morbi reveal, which describes life so well, you know. But then I need to have faith and trust that I'm purchasing the principles wholeheartedly and then allow what we reveal which will catch up. So that's what I get out of this conversation.

Luke DeBoy: 37:46

Yeah, and we recently had someone share their 12 step principles to everyday life in a previous episode. You know which is kind of what we're talking about here and let's highlight some of those things you mentioned. Ping pong, you know. You guys recently had a nonprofit, had oil's bus trip to a game. You guys do trivia nights. Ping pong, you have touring comedians, you've got started movie nights, movie nights and, of course, football time. What a big time for that and a place to go during the holidays. Anything else that I'm missing that are not think you're tapping.

Luke DeBoy: 38:20

Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that makes it cringe Because you hear it called sober bar or club or anything that in terms of the culture that you'd like for it to be known, that sometimes people use a connotation that you'd prefer it not to? Yeah, I hear what you're saying.

Brock Anderson: 38:37

It's fine in its way. You know, I don't really have it. I kind of what Zaw just mentioned. All I can, all we try to do, I should say, is is go to bed each night and ask ourselves are we doing the what we think is best, right? And we really feel very strongly and I'll speak for myself, I should say that we, this is exactly what we're supposed to be doing, and so because of that, like Zaw said, we just feel eventually everything will be fine. Hey, maybe it's not for everybody, that's okay, that's okay.

Brock Anderson: 39:10

There's never, you know, as I like to tell you, when it's not a competition, we're not, you know. I mean, we're just out there trying to do what our higher power we feel is guiding us to do, and if someone else's higher power is guiding them a different direction, then that's wonderful, you know. So I got to be very honest. I don't ever really find myself worried about the club or how you know how, what you know its impact. As a matter of fact, I find myself, more often than not, usually settling people down to come to me and go Brock, you're not gonna believe it. I'm like it's okay, it's all good, it'll all work itself out, you know. So yeah, I don't really have anything out there. I hope that everyone eventually will whether they need the services or not, will understand the benefits of it. But you know that may never happen, and that's okay too. That's okay too. It'll all work out.

Luke DeBoy: 40:07

No part of the vision is more club 164s moving forward. I don't think non-profit is just overflowing with finances, but when it comes to being in the green you said it goes back into the non-profit Absolutely. Is there part of a vision in the next two, three, four years to open something? You know there's some communities like Bel Air and Maryland, so you hit the nail on the head.

Brock Anderson: 40:31

So one thing I will say we've been very fortunate. It seems like the state and the county have seen what we're trying to do, and one example is the state just gave us a grant for this year to put the daycare on seven days a week. So they're funding that for us. Wow.

Luke DeBoy: 40:47

And so Big deal for every mother in early it's huge, it's huge.

Brock Anderson: 40:51

So, starting Monday, four to nine PM, monday through Saturday, they'll be free daycare, and then Sunday mornings we're going to do it from 830 to 130. And then the counties also come around the last two years and they've given us a little money to put. So to me, our way forward is it obviously and the other thing I will tell you is that no one understands is we have now over. Now these are people in the recovery community that have come in there and obviously support what we're doing. We have about 105, what we call ambassadors. Now, what that is is they have gone on our website and they have signed up to make a monthly donation reoccurring, and so what's interesting is the funding definitely is going to have to continue to come from with their own community, and it's been many people have stepped up to do that.

Brock Anderson: 41:40

But the goal hopefully is is if we could partner up with the state. If they see the success rate that they think, the space, the idea, the idea of the club, and then with the recovery community, renting space and all kind of the synergy between it all working, if they feel like it's successful, then maybe we can even get them to come in and say you know what, we'll put up the funds for the next one and let's see how that goes, and then to at least construct the next one. So we're looking at it from a number of different angles, but we're yeah, we definitely would like to see more than just the one club 164. That's awesome.

Zaw Maw: 42:13

Yeah, my personal two cent. It's also the fact that at the end of the day, you know, the more meetings they are, the better. Absolutely, Because I would not have found my way into the program if there wasn't a meeting on campus where I was going to school that you know. So whoever started it, you know I'm super grateful. So that's how I look at it in the grand scheme of things, because meetings are a great place to get introduced to the program and see some examples. Again, you know I didn't have any examples where people are sober and happy. I was sober and miserable. So I was like, why do I even want to be sober? So meetings make a huge difference. So, having a space for meetings, the more meetings they are, the more different options we have, the better.

Luke DeBoy: 42:50

So that's how I look at it. Absolutely, that was great. Thanks for joining us today.

Brock Anderson: 42:55

Thanks for having me guys Appreciate it.

Luke DeBoy: 42:57

Yeah. So throughout this our conversation, brock has shed light on the transformative power of this club and this nonprofit a place where individuals choosing a sober lifestyle can find entertainment, social connection and a sense of belonging. We experienced the diverse offerings of the facility, from the full non-alcoholic bar to the engaging games and billiards, shuffleboard and all that fun stuff. And let's not forget the importance of the state-of-the-art audio visual that's fun during movie night and sports games. Beyond being a center of entertainment, club 164 serves a true community hub. With its dedicated space of 12-step meeting, it provides safe and supportive environment for individuals to share their experience, find solace and strength their sober journey.

Luke DeBoy: 43:40

Daily social activities and special events further foster a sense of connection, laughter and lasting friendships. Brock's unwavering and passionate commitment for this vision has made it a place where sobriety celebrate and individuals can thrive a vibrant, inclusive community. By offering a space that goes beyond traditional recovery environments, club 164 has truly revolutionized the concept of living a fulfilling sober lifestyle. So, as we bid farewell to this episode, we encourage you to explore the possibilities that the club holds. Whether you're seeking a place to enwine, engage in enriching activities or fellowship, this club welcomes you with open arms. So join us as we celebrate achievements, create memories and embrace the joy of living life fully free from influence of alcohol.

Zaw Maw: 44:23

So, brock once again thanks so much.

Luke DeBoy: 44:27

My name is Luke. See you next time.