City Lights Podcast
A leadership podcast for leaders who want to light the way rather than be the way. Created to be a space where leaders can remember to shine and let their good deeds and practices help others.
City Lights Podcast
The Way of the Cross
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Headland Methodist Recap
Clay Lassiter
Alright, well that is being brought to us by Marshall Mathers. Guess who is back? It is us, City Lights Leadership Podcast.
SPEAKER_01We're back.
SPEAKER_00We're back. We took a little bit of a break from podcasting. Just ministry and other things seemed more important than doing a show. And, you know, so uh we're also getting ready and geared up uh for this Easter. And but part of the Lent is creating habits. And so we're in the season of Lent here at Headland Methodist Church. This is City Lights Leader Ship Podcast. My name is Clay, and I am also here with Pastor Gubby, also known as Pastor Gabe.
SPEAKER_01We're back, baby.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're back.
SPEAKER_01We're back.
SPEAKER_00And uh we just came out of a sermon series, which was kind of like I don't know if it's a sermon series because it wasn't a there wasn't a third episode, but I'll call it a series because it was two episodes back to back of talking about a brave future. And we talked about Nehemiah and and Haggai, and specifically addressing the church and addressing our church in a way that says, hey, God has not called us to sit still. So one of the dangers that I perceive as a pastor is, you know, hey, we paid off the debt, we paid, we've we've done this incredible thing. Um, hey, we're really comfortable. We average, you know, this amount of people in church, and it's really easy to get comfortable. And um, and you've heard me say before, like, God has not called us to sit on our blessed assurance. So today's episode is about brave futures, and we're gonna talk about Haggai, uh, specifically, um, Haggai chapter one, verses two through eight. Do you have it pulled up in your Bible? You can read along with us, and then we'll also talk a little bit about First Corinthians chapter three a little bit later on in the episode. The real question is God is always building, right? Uh the question is, is are we building with him? So I challenged Gabe, like Gabe, what is your big uh takeaway? And also, by the way, since the last time we talked to Gabe on air, Gabe is having a kid. Or actually, his wife is having a kid, but we're excited. We're having a kid, baby ship, baby ship, baby ship, he's coming, baby ship.
SPEAKER_01Pray for everyone who ever has to interact with him because if he's like I was when I was a child, we're all in trouble.
SPEAKER_00Um, that's we'll unpack that later. Yes. I'm gonna call your mom and be like, hey, can you tell me what Gabe was like as a child? Don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_01Don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00All right, so uh Gabe's gonna read Haggai, um, and this is affirmatively the book of Haggai. And I would say, uh, you know, let's um I can give you a quick thousand-foot outline. If you read Haggai chapter three, you are wrong because there are only two chapters in Haggai. So he is a minor prophet. Uh Gabe read uh uh chapter one, verses two through eight.
SPEAKER_01Here's what it says.
SPEAKER_00All right.
SPEAKER_01Word of God for the people of God. This is what the Lord Almighty says. These people say, The time has not yet come to rebuild the Lord's house. Then the word of the Lord came through the prophet Haggai. Is it a time for you yourselves to be living in your paneled houses while the house, while this house remains a ruin? Now this is what the Lord Almighty says: give careful thought to your ways. You have planted much, but harvested little. You eat, but never have enough. You drink, but you never have your fill. You put on clothes but are not warm, you earn wages only to put them in a purse with holes in it. This is what the Lord Almighty says. Give careful thought to your ways. Go up into the mountains and bring down timber and build my house so that I may take pleasure in it and be honored, says the Lord.
SPEAKER_00It's an interesting book. Um so it's been 16 years, and they've done ready, nothing.
SPEAKER_01Nothing.
SPEAKER_00And the previous first week we talked about uh Nehemiah. Nehemiah went and saw the rubble, he broke down and cried, and then he said, let's let's do something, right? Yep. Um, so there's probably some overlap to building the city, and then there's some overlap here now, building God's temple. And which again, there's nothing wrong with building your own home, there's nothing wrong with building your life. But what usually happens is that the church becomes an afterthought.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think that's the question is where are your priorities at? All right. And so, as Christians, right, obviously every Christian, every good Christian knows, right? You know, you have your priorities in order. It's God, and then like your own personal family, and then your church family, and then, you know, everybody else, friends that aren't in the church, people that you know, maybe co-workers, acquaintances, all of that. And so we we like to say that we have our priorities in order, and we like to say that everything we do is is in that order, but how do we actually act, right? And how do God's people actually act the church, right? And so as you see here, Israel, you know, of course God's our number one. I'm sure if you wouldn't ask any, you know, good Israelite back in that day, like, of course God's my number one, he's he's number one priority in my life, but where's their effort going, right? Not to say that they can't put any effort towards you know providing for themselves and their families and their houses, but at that point, if there's zero effort after 16 years, I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_00Like you haven't moved to stone, haven't moved to stone, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you still got to cut down the timber, right? Yeah, they still have to go up on the mountain and get the actual wood, they don't even have the supplies yet, right? They haven't even been planning it. No, and so where are your priorities at? And I think our priorities can kind of drift, right? You know, God tends to drift down, I think family, below family at least for a lot of people. And that's it's an easy one to do because your family is so I think.
SPEAKER_00I think what happens in a lot of people's lives, ready, is the reason church becomes the afterthought, and and this is probably pastorally, I think about this. If if worship doesn't feel like it matters, yeah, and it's not making a personal difference, like you're not preaching challenging transformational messages. Yeah. And this is for pastors and leaders. If you're not preaching transformation, then what are you preaching? You're preaching to comfort. And there's a theological term we call moral therapeutic deism. Um, that suddenly God becomes your therapist. And and then we become all Joel Osteens without becoming Joel Osteen. You know? Um, and and we're all guilty of it as preachers at times when seasons just feel like, oh, well, nothing's going on.
SPEAKER_01I think it just really shows us, especially in this passage, that God understands what we're up to. I mean, come on. How many Christians, whenever they know God is telling them something to do? Oh my gosh. Christians don't say no. Yeah. Right? We like to think that we're clever, like, oh, well, I'm not saying no to God.
SPEAKER_00Let me pray about it.
SPEAKER_01Let me pray about it. Let's worry about it later.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's I think I addressed that too, didn't I?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think you did say that. And so it's like, God knows what we're up to. God knows our hearts. We're we're not clever, right? We're he knows exactly what we're doing, and he's addressing it here. And I think that's why we get this kind of glimpse into what's going on in Israel at the time because he's like, Y'all have always been this way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01This isn't new. I've seen this before. All right. Don't let your priorities shift and don't let later become forever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And the but that, you know, that happens to so many Christians. And so that's why I talked about the someday illusion, you know, that every generation has a someday. Kids need to get older, markets got to settle, uh, or schedule clears, or when I retire. And then even when they retire, they suddenly are like, well, I've served my time. You know, I'm like, being in the church is not a prison sentence, man. Like we're not asking you to like I'm not asking the Lord might ask you to do something that you're uncomfortable with. I won't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I think that needs to be you and the Lord. Like if you came to me and said, Hey, I think the Lord wants me to go to Zimbabwe, I'd be like, Oh, okay. Well, uh, let's pray about that. And maybe is there a Zimbabwe in Alabama? You know, uh, I do think it's interesting. Sometimes it does take people to go around the world before they start doing missions in their own backyard. There's a mission right here.
SPEAKER_01You know, yeah. Plenty of people. Plenty of people.
SPEAKER_00So someday is where obedience goes to die. It's where good intentions live. That's one of the things I kind of said, and also this will be our year, you know. Um I talked about compound interest and other boring things and savings, but uh, but it's also at the heart of the message is is we try to hide behind our fear, our anxiety, our safety in order to risk nothing for God because it might cost me something.
SPEAKER_01Your comfort.
SPEAKER_00Comfort.
SPEAKER_01Right? Your schedule.
SPEAKER_00Schedule.
SPEAKER_01The stuff that you want to do, even though it's not necessarily money. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I even I even in uh I put out a survey that's going out to the church uh this Sunday, um, over the next week, like hey, I've asked other everybody to participate. And one of the things I said, if we do nothing, what will it, what will it look like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In other words, like, what do you think happens if we do nothing? What do you think happens to us as a body of Christ if we do nothing? If it's not about ministry or you know, outreach or evangelism, what happens to the body? And I mean, I know the answer to the question. And I said it on Sunday, I said, hey, the most expensive thing that you could ever do is nothing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, because you just get comfortable with what you're doing. Yeah. Blessing stops coming eventually, right? If you start relying on yourself, then eventually you're gonna have to completely rely on yourself. God goes, okay, fine, do it on your own. See how see how that works out. You know what I'm saying? And it it so rarely does work out that way.
SPEAKER_00And it so I you know, I addressed, hey, churches don't die because of controversy. They die because of apathy. Now, yes, there are other factors I know, like jobs, homes, all those things. But I but I also know that, hey, this is not one of those communities. This community is about to boom. Oh, I'm excited for it. God's God's doing things in this community already and and in this church already. But we have to be careful, like, hey, we don't want to just be I don't want to be what he says in the scripture. Yeah, because it says these people.
SPEAKER_01These people.
SPEAKER_00He didn't say my people, these people. Like when God speaks through a prophet, he's like, My people who are called by my name, uh, the people who whom I have rescued, but what does he say? Nah. He says, These people. You know, kind of like you'll you'll understand this once you have a kid, um, and your kid's doing something crazy. You're like, you'll look at your wife and be like, Hey, your kid wants you. It's not my kid, that's your kid.
SPEAKER_01Your kid. Oh, he already does it with the dogs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. Oh, yeah. Your and your dog is being a menace. Yeah, right. It's like, oh, it's your dog when he's bad. It's my dog when he's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Hey, your dog just ran into the door. Um anyway, so I think when we we have to be very careful, are we neglecting God's house? But more importantly, I was kind of trying to address, are we neglecting God's mission? You know, um, are we neglecting the mission? You know, the people had paneled houses, secured their own comfort. And the greatest threat I said, and you've already kind of hit on this once, is the greatest threat to the church is not persecution, by the way. In North America, it is not persecution, it is not what mean people say on Twitter, Instagram, and X or go be a Christian in the Middle East, TikTok, or whatever. It is comfort.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And by the way, I said it the first Sunday too, and then the air conditioning broke. Yes. It's my fault. Yeah, so it was hilarious. And uh, so the great news um is that we know it. Now God is gonna meet us in our discomfort, right? Yeah. And he says, consider your ways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think that there's this I've seen a lot of this going around recently just with the way that a lot of pastors have been talking on online is that people have this fear, not necessarily of risk, but with risk that doesn't reap any sort of reward. Right. It's actually something I talked about to our students last night, is getting them to understand that spreading the gospel, right? Or even in this context, doing what God has called us to do and not being, you know, procrastinators, not procrastinating and pushing it off to another day, because we're worried that there's not going to be some sort of reward. I think if you told any Christian, look, if you give$10,000 right now, we will get 500 new members of the church tomorrow. Right. They do it. Right. Right. But how many of them are willing to not not even just money, like their time and invest in the church? Like, well, I might do all this and nobody's going to show up.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Right. Or I might give up on my time or give up my schedule or give up my comfort, and then there's that.
SPEAKER_00That's that is the whole point of faith.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the risk, right? Like that's the whole point of faith. And I think the understanding that we need to have is something that I talked about with our students, is that that invisible work, right? The heart-changing work, the transformation that happens, we're not responsible for that. Right. I I think we try and put ourselves in God's position sometimes with that. But our role isn't to make transformation. It's not to change people's hearts. We literally can't. We're not designed for it. And so if you constantly force yourself to try and do what only God can do, you're going to miss out on what he actually made you to do, which is faithfulness, obedience, all right? Saying yes and actually going and doing what he's called us to do rather than just being comfortable, all right, and not taking on any risk. Not because you're necessarily scared of the risk, but because you're scared you're not going to get anything out of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And to be honest, we don't see what we get out of it all the time.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Expect I was in the context of spreading the gospel, is what we were talking about. It's like sometimes you're going to invest in people and you're going to spread the gospel to them and invite them to church and tell them your story, and you're not going to see the reward for it. But something's going to be going on in their hearts. They're going to replay that conversation in their mind later. They're going to ask themselves tough questions later. And it's all going to be because you were faithful and obedient, but you might not see it. But that doesn't mean that God isn't working.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So that's the hard thing. Yep. Is addressing the unseen. But it's interesting here. So I I always try to make sure I see a parallel. I know first and foremost, I love that God honors first priorities. And he gave them something really simple. Ready? He says, go build, bring. Or sorry, go bring, build. So it's go, bring, and build. To me, it sounds a lot like go and make disciples.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Go make disciples, baptizing, teach the commands, like go build, go, bring, build. Um, he doesn't say debate it, don't don't do go, go do it, bring it, build it. Like, and it becomes about, like you said earlier, like priority. The priority provides provision.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Not the provision providing the priority. I'll, you know, and a lot of churches suffer from this. They do nothing for Jesus because they're waiting on somebody else to do it. They're waiting on something, right? Yeah. Now Jesus addresses this, and we're also going to look at uh Paul addressing this here in a minute, too. Yeah. That the priority has to be God first and foremost. So in Matthew chapter six, I'm going to read this. I'm going to read verses 19 through 34. And it's interesting because he says, Don't store up treasures on earth. Where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in, store your treasures in heaven. Where moth and rust cannot destroy, thieves can't break in and steal. Wherever your treasure is, there is the desires of your heart will be. He goes on to talk about the eye and the lamp, and he continues on. Then he says in verse 24, and this is every um uh body's favorite passage cannot serve two masters, you'll love one, hate the other, right? You want to be devoted to one to despise the other. You cannot serve God and be enslaved to money. Now, people sometimes wrongly interpret that like money is the root of all evil. Nope. The love of money is the root of all evil. So, but it is true, you cannot serve God in two things because if eventually what will always happen is what the comfort thing will win you over because it feels more real. Um, so Jesus continues saying, So don't worry about everyday life, food and drink, clothes. Isn't it life more than food and your body more than clothing? Look at the birds, and he says, now, and why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field, don't they make their uh work or on clothing it? Solomon on all his glory wasn't dressed as beautiful as they are. And if God so cares about wildflowers, here they are today and thrown to the fire tomorrow, he certainly will care for you. So why do you have so little faith? Yep. So don't worry about these things saying, what will we eat, what will we drink, what will we wear? These things dominate the thoughts.
SPEAKER_01And isn't that so it's almost as if Jesus has Haggai in mind whenever he's thinking this because look at how parallel it is. Don't worry about your food, don't worry about their clothing, don't worry about all that stuff, right? Obviously, you have to eat, you have to have clothes, all of that stuff, but like don't make that your priority. Go back and look. What were what were their priorities in Haggai? Says they planted, but they only harvested a little.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Says they earned money, but it disappeared. I love it. Their efforts, they actually they lacked blessing because their priorities were out of order. So they're build building their houses, but the house of God was still in ruins. And so it's so parallel. They dominate you saying they dominate you.
SPEAKER_00They will dominate you. And your father already knows what you need now. Ready? Verse 33 Seek first the kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything. So ready? Go bring, build. Go bring, build. You know, don't worry about tomorrow. It has its own worries. So at the heart of this passage in both Haggai and in Matthew's gospel, is we see there's an anxiety about life. And so the reality is that life somewhat gets in the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and that we're not careful as the body of Christ, not not necessarily as individual believers. But the re you know, when we look around and we see empty seats in our church, you know, it's different if like if the church was always full, no problem. But if the church has been empty, or if the church was full and now it's empty, why are we not doing anything? And the answer I hear from most congregations when I interview them, ready?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_01And see, this is where I think that we get into deceiving ourselves a little bit. Uh I'll tie this back in, but I was actually watching this pastor break down that this famous argument for God's, they say for God's existence, and it's kind of a misunderstanding, it's Pascal's wager, right? Everybody was like, oh, it's a terrible argument. Like, but the point of it wasn't to prove God's existence. The point that Pascal was making to all of his, you know, gambling friends and philosophers is he was making the point that you're not buying into God, you're not believing in God, not because it's illogical, right? Because if you tie it back into this, you're not doing what God is calling you to do, not because it's logical, not because it's illogical, not because you don't know what to do, right? It's because you don't want to. It's because of the own desires in your heart. And because if you break it down logically, God is real, right? We believe that God is. Real. We believe that we will inherit the kingdom of God once we get that grace through faith in Jesus Christ. You cannot be worried about any of this stuff, even if you were very irresponsible when you focus just on God and you starve to death in the next month. All right. Yeah. Didn't worry about water, food, anything. And you just focus on the channel.
SPEAKER_00Which is not the meaning of that passage.
SPEAKER_01Not the meaning of that passage. But even if you did that, the logical conclusion is that you still inherit eternal life and you still enter the kingdom of God. So it's not a logical issue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The reason we're not doing what God has called us to do is because our priorities are out of order. And I think once you come to that realization that it's not because it's not the smart thing to do. Right. It's not because it's an illogical thing to do what God is calling me to do. It's because I simply don't want to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that means that there's a heart problem somewhere.
SPEAKER_01There's something going on that's preventing you from actually doing what God has called you to do. And I think that's the point. Yeah. You shouldn't be, you know, trying to logic your way out of doing, you know, what God has called you to do and having that, you know, quote unquote worldly wisdom, like, wow, we'll we'll do it later. We just want to be safe. We don't. No. If we trust God, He will provide for us. Yes, exactly. And so if we trust the God, He will provide for us. And the only thing getting in the way is ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it happens to the best of us. I mean, I'm being honest. Like, we we, you know, I mean, I'll be honest with you. Like, I've been struggling with a project that I just simply don't want to do. Like, it does not interest me. It does not, in my opinion, advance the gospel. It does not advance the mission here at this local church. But at the same time, I know that it might bless some others. But the chances are it really won't. It will provide comfort. I'm not okay with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then it fell back into my lap even after I tried to like push it back out. And I just realized I was like, okay, Lord, this might be my opportunity just to be out there to wash feet. This is my opportunity to walk close with you and to wash the feet of others, even though they don't know why we're washing feet in the first place. And so I would say this. Um today, if we're talking about priorities, like what is our priority? How do we how do we fix that? And the first thing is, ready? It's the easy thing. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Create a create a habit. Lint offers us a lot of people that want to destroy things. And oh, I gave up chocolate or I gave up Coca-Cola. Yeah. And I'm like, I mean, that's destroying your diet and your stomach, but man, that's really not the heart, the real issue going on. Yep. The real issue is that we are not surrendering our heart on a daily basis. There are a lot of Christians who hear the passage, take up your cross, and they don't understand it. I mean, that used to be the prayer every morning I woke up was like, Father, you know, you know, I'm in the name of Jesus, I'm crucifying my flesh. I don't even know what that means. I just don't want to be selfish. I want to deny myself today. And the moment that we actually say those things out loud, we allow God to transform us and get us awake. Aware of his surroundings, aware of the things that need to be done. And it is about priority.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If I want to make my health a priority, right? Well, guess what? I don't do. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't try to try to come back on some fried foods. Yeah. You know, you know, I want to be healthy. Hey, we're going to walk. But if I don't ever do anything, guess what it is? 16 later, you know, later, uh my temple's destroyed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? So in the body of Christ, and for those who are listening that are our leaders in the church, make sure you're making things the first priority with God, with your church, with your leadership. Oh yeah. Like if you're not creating tension, what are you creating? You know, you're a coach.
SPEAKER_01I am a coach.
SPEAKER_00Do you uh do you let players coast sometimes?
SPEAKER_01Do what?
SPEAKER_00Do you let players coast? Coast.
SPEAKER_01I guess it depends on the player, but no, not not normally. Coasting is coasting is bad, it stalls growth. And so you know, a lot of tennis players they get to a level. What happens in tennis is you'll you'll improve very, very quickly because you finally learn the technique, you learn what you're supposed to do, but then you kind of plateau and stall out. And so it requires a lot more work to get over that plateau. And that that happened with me as I was growing up in tennis. I would plateau, and then finally, after I had put in more and more and more work, I ended up getting past that plateau and I improved again and I'd hit another plateau. But the point you're making, I think, is very good, is just because you plateau doesn't mean that growth stalls.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that doesn't mean that you should stop working, that doesn't mean that you should stop practicing. In the church context, it doesn't mean we should stop being obedient just because we've hit a plateau. I think that's exactly what you're getting at. I think that's a really good way of looking at it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think coaches are supposed to create tension. You have to. Like in an in order for a player to grow. In fact, Jesus actually says if a seed just stays in the bag, if it doesn't go into the ground and die, it cannot be wood, it cannot multiply. And the same is true of his church. Like, hey, if you're not willing to lay down your life every day and to seek me or to make me a priority, then yes, you're essentially saying that the church is going to lay in ruins. It's somebody else's job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think what you were getting at a second ago with the misunderstanding of taking up your cross and how people view even things like Lint, where they view it as you have to give something up. And that's not necessarily what's going on. It's you need to add He says take up, not take up, not get rid of. Take up is the priority. Of course, you need to take off those old rags, put on those new linens, but then you also need to take up your cross, take up new practices, take up