Future Energy Insights
Bringing together industry leaders, innovators and global thinkers, Future Energy Insights by the World Future Energy Summit takes an in-depth look at renewable energy and sustainability. Featuring lively debate and passionate discussion, the series covers six core topics: clean energy, water scarcity, smart cities, circular economies, waste management and climate change. It shines a spotlight on the critical issues and major gamechangers shaping the sector today.
Future Energy Insights
In Conversation with Robin Mills: The Economics of Renewables
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Electricity demand is entering a new era, driven by electrification, AI, population growth and the rapid expansion of new technologies. In this episode, Robin Mills speaks with Mazin Khan, CFO of Masdar, about how the global energy landscape is changing and what this means for the future of renewable energy from an economic and business perspective.
They explore why solar, wind and battery storage are becoming increasingly competitive, how falling costs and improving technology are enabling renewables to meet demand around the clock, and the role of energy security and price certainty in accelerating the transition. Mazin also discusses Masdar’s global growth and its ambition to reach 100 GW of renewable capacity by 2030.
The conversation examines what is unlocking renewable investment in emerging markets, including the importance of regulation, long-term offtake agreements and project bankability, as well as how scale, supply chains and financing are shaping competition in mature markets. They also look ahead to the next decade of battery innovation and why rising electricity demand, technological progress and falling costs could create significant new opportunities for renewable energy.
Ahead of the World Future Energy Summit, the episode offers a timely look at the forces reshaping global power markets and the scale of investment and innovation needed to meet the world's growing demand for electricity.
Powered by World Future Energy Summit, the Future Energy Insights show seeks to address the biggest challenges shaping the future of energy today, both in the Middle East and around the world. Find us on social media at @worldfutureenergysummit and visit our website www.worldfutureenergysummit.com.
Powered by World Future Energy Summit, the Future Energy Insights show seeks to address the biggest challenges shaping the future of energy today, both in the Middle East and around the world. Find us on social media at @worldfutureenergysummit and visit our website www.worldfutureenergysummit.com.
Welcome to Future Insights by the World Future Energy Summit. And for this episode, I'm joined by Marzen Khand, CFO of Maztar. Now, Marzen, as Mastar, of course, you are sponsors of Abu Dhabi Sustainability Week. That is one of the uh and and the World Future Energy Summit is part of Abu Dhabi Sustainability Week. You're very much at the heart of Abu Dhabi and the UA's clean energy journey, both both here and and abroad. We're in a world of rapid transformation in electricity demand, in electricity generation and use. And I'd like to kind of kick off by reviewing that changing landscape. What do you see in terms of electricity demand around the world, meeting new sources of demand? How is that picture looking from your viewpoint?
SPEAKER_01So, as you mentioned, Robin, I mean, we we we are seeing an unprecedented uh uh demand uh or growth in demand of electricity over the next few years. It's driven by multiple factors. It's driven by electrification, it's driven by population growth. Uh, and one of the key things that's also driving it is technological advancements, specifically when it comes to AI. Um, and and we see that across the board. We're a true global company. We're present in almost all continents across the globe. And we see that something that's happening across the board. Um if you look at some of the uh growth stats, uh the International Energy Agency expects uh growth, annual growth, to be close to 4% in 2026 and 2027. And that's annual growth. Uh that and that's significantly more than what the past decade has been. So, again, a massive uh uh increase in demand, uh, primarily as a result of electrification and new technologies being introduced. And that's something that we as Mazda are looking to capitalize on as much as possible.
SPEAKER_00Right, and that's a very interesting change, I think, because if we look at uh the developed world, electricity growth demand growth has been very slow for a long period, right? Whereas in the developing world, electricity demand growth has been fast, and countries that many countries have been have had a big challenge to keep up with that. The UA has been in a phase of rapid growth in electricity demand for many years because of the development of population, the economy, and so on. Um, but it's always managed to keep up with that demand growth very successfully. Now you have new sectors entering, of course, as you say. You mentioned AI, that's a very big and very new one. Also, of course, electric vehicles, um, other forms of decarbonization technologies, you know, heat pumps, and so on. Um, so this means, I guess, you know, not just a lot more demand, but a different kind of structure of demand, right, from what we had uh in previous years.
SPEAKER_01Agreed, agreed. No, absolutely. I mean, and it the the AI demand in of itself is just absolutely massive. Uh the expectation is that AI consumption on an annual basis by 2030 is expected to exceed the annual consumption of a country like Japan. And that and we're talking about one of the top three, top five rather global economies in the world. So is AI demand is significant. Uh uh, and and and that is primarily that along with generally electrification, EVs, uh uh the rise of various other uses of electricity is what's driving demand in the developed world. Uh, and uh, and then as you said, the developing world. The developing world, uh, we continue to see that demand, that increase in demand, and renewables specifically are pretty well placed uh to capitalize on that opportunity. And the main reason for that is because uh we were pretty uh you know, technologically, uh solar, wind, batteries have come a long way as compared to where they used to be a couple of decades ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and indeed, and we'll often see these statistics that you know 90 odd percent of new generation capacity added globally is now renewables, right? Which is a remarkable change from uh a few years ago. Um obviously we have falling costs, but also improving technology, batteries, integration with batteries, the ability to meet 24-hour demand, and so on. Um, and that's I think something that you've been very much at the forefront of, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, um, the thing about renewables is renewables, two key things that that differentiates renewables from other forms of electricity generation today is that it's quicker and it's cheaper. So by quicker, if you look at just generally the amount of time that it takes to put together a solar plant and get it up and running and be being able to dispatch electrons onto the grid, you could be talking about anywhere between 12 to 24 months at utility scale, not at individual, let's say, distributed generation. We're talking about utility scale here. 12 to 24 months. Wind could be anywhere between two to five years. Now compare that to your traditional sources of uh uh or lead times of from your traditional sources of electricity, such as gas, we're looking at lead times of anywhere between five to eight years. And when you start looking into nuclear and coal, we're you know they're getting close to eight to ten years. So again, so it's it's extremely quick, number one. Uh number two, it's actually cheaper. So um, if you look at solar, uh again, as an example, uh, the cost of production of solar in the past decade has come down by almost 90%, making it one of the cheapest forms of electricity. Um that uh and that basically means that it's quick and it's cheap. Now, the issue with typically with renewables is the intermittency aspect. Uh, you know, the sun shines during the day, it doesn't shine during the night, the wind blows at a certain time of the day, and it doesn't at other times, that's where the batteries come in. That's where the storage that you just mentioned sort of comes in. So um uh, and and what battery technology, again, battery technology has advanced quite significantly. Uh, to be honest, I see batteries advancing significantly more technologically in the next decade or so, similar to what solar has done in the past uh couple of decades. And and what that does is the moment you couple renewables with batteries, you're able to dispatch uh that energy, that renewable energy, uh at a at a baseload. So, in other words, at on demand. Uh um, and and our project here in the UA, for example, RTC round the clock, is a prime example of that. We are building 5.2 gigawatts of solar capacity coupled with 19 gigawatt hours of battery capacity uh to basically dispatch one gigawatt base load. Again, that's that's by far one of the large, by far the largest uh base load renewable energy plant. Uh uh, and it's it's effectively an IP that we have that we're looking to expand and export to other parts of the world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, that's a fascinating project, as you say, really uh groundbreaking and certainly on that scale and enabled by the falling cost and the growing scale of batteries. You know, you can now place orders for that kind of amount of batteries and actually have it be fulfilled, right? Um Abu Dhabi, of course, the UA is a very sunny place, lots of open land, good conditions, but it's not unique in that respect, right? A lot of your activities are in other parts of the world, which also have very favorable renewable conditions. Maybe tell us a bit about that. I mean, you're you're an international company, you're obviously active in in on on, I guess, all continents. Um, you know, where do you kind of geographically see as some of the most interesting areas for you?
SPEAKER_01Well, that's a tough question. Um, we are, as I said, we're we're we're a true global player. So we're present in North America, we're present in Europe, we're present in Africa, uh, and we're present in almost all of Asia, including the APAC region, CIS, and obviously our backyard, which is which is the Middle East. Uh so that basically comprises of both uh developing economies and developed economies. And and and what we've what we're basically seeing is the rise of electricity across the board, uh, the the rise of uh demand across the board. Uh and and when it comes to renewables, um uh we as Mazda, if you look at our if you look at our history, if you look at our story, uh we in 2022 were a company uh of approximately 10 gigawatts overall capacity. Today, in 26, we stand at approximately 65 gigawatts of capacity. And we have a very ambitious target of 100 gigawatts by 2030. Now that makes us uh one of the largest, if not the largest, renewable energy company uh globally in the world, pure play. Um and so when we look at these uh uh economies and we look at these jurisdictions, we we're not just into them for the sake of uh uh, let's say, current meeting the existing demand, but we're also in these geographies looking at future growth in those regions. And I can tell you, in every single one of these regions, regardless of where it is, we see a significant rise. Um and I I would say another thing I would add to that, I mean, the technology part we discussed how batteries is really transforming everything. I think I think the the recent events have also raised questions around uh energy security. And a lot of countries out there, whether it's developed countries or developing countries, Europe is a prime example, are really looking to have uh um less and less reliance on things like, for example, gas imports and so on and so forth, and therefore trying to increase that ability to generate electricity locally. So that that again, that has just you know snowballed the the impact. And uh that that just gives us more and more growth opportunities.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, indeed, and you you know, your 100 gigawatt target by um by 2030. Um I I I won't put you on the record for this, but you know, my own guess would be, you know, given your your growth so far, you'll probably beat that target, right? And uh certainly looking at the growth in renewables globally as well, how that has consistently beaten expectations. Um and and the recent conflict, of course, you know, you again you mentioned the impact on energy security. We see that certainly very much in Asia, we see it in Europe. Um so I you know, I think over the past few years, there's maybe a bit of a narrative that renewables, yes, they're getting cheap, yes, they're clean, of course, yes, you can build them quickly, all of the advantages that you mentioned, but you know, you still need still need the traditional fossil fuels and nuclear for reliability. Now I think a bunch of countries have seen that, you know, unfortunately fossil fuels can be vulnerable to to interruption and and to disruption, and the kind of self-sufficiency of renewables is an attractive feature.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. And and and that that that that's not just limited to uh the availability aspect, it's also um uh it also extends to the the pricing aspect. When you build a power plant, uh you this is an infrastructure project, right? So you're looking at something that lasts for 20, 30 years. Now, when that power plant is dispatching energy, and if that plant has a variable cost, which can change quite dramatically, which is the case with, let's say, fossil fuel plants, the the pricing uncertainty then you know, it really questions as to, okay, what is what is our basically is a significant variable which can cause issues further down the supply chain, further down down the value chain. When it comes to renewables, renewables just rely on natural resources, right? Whether it's wind or solar. So that price certainty aspect uh uh over that sustained long-term period, well, A gives us as Mazdar as a as a developer, uh as a builder, owner, operator, the ability to A attract more capital as a result of that uh uh uh certainty in revenue, but also provides our customers a certainty of cost. And therefore their decision-making process, their long-term plans can be can be built accordingly. Uh now again, if you compare that to fossil fuels, you traditionally have gas prices going up and down, uh, which would then have an impact on that on that value chain.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's important. You know, one of the major inputs to a renewable energy project's economics, of course, is cost of capital. Um, we talked a little bit about Africa. We talk if we talk about demand growth, you know, Africa is one place that stands out, right? Because Africa needs electricity for even basic needs, um, never mind the data centers and electric vehicles and so on. Africa's always been a place with tremendous renewable resources, but very limited development of renewables. Past couple of years, maybe that's changing, right? Particularly on the solar power side. Um you're a significant investor in Africa. Tell us a bit, uh, how do you kind of unlock that? How do you get past some of the challenges of cost of capital and project risk in African countries and make those projects successful?
SPEAKER_01So you're right. We've seen a significant um uptick in terms of renewable projects in Africa, and various countries in Africa. We we have a platform uh called Infinity Power in Africa. Uh uh, we're present in multiple countries. Uh uh, the biggest countries that we're present in include Egypt and South Africa. Uh, what we've seen in Africa is is uh the maturity when it comes to specifically regulation. Uh now when as regulation matures, uh they're able to unlock uh more revenue streams. So, in other words, they're able to put in place more bankable projects uh through primarily quality offtake agreements. And the moment you may bring quality long-term off-take, because at the end of the day, you are building infrastructure projects, you are looking at return profiles over multiple decades, and therefore that top-line revenue certainty is absolutely critical. Uh so what we've seen specifically in Africa and all these jurisdictions, uh, the introduction of uh mature regulation, uh, the introduction of long-term quality off-take agreements, which then make it easier for us, for companies like us, to make the projects bankable, attract project financing, uh, attract banks uh who are in those projects for multiple decades, and therefore help uh reduce uh the overall uh or help increase our uh returns, uh, but then help reduce the overall cost from a final off-take perspective. So, yes, in Africa, it's we we've seen significant growth, but but I think one of the things that's fueling that growth is how regulators uh or the speed at which regulators have been advancing and how quickly they've been putting in place these long-term off-take agreements, which then in turn just accelerate the whole process by attracting more and more capital.
SPEAKER_00That's very interesting, because that's always been, I think, a bit of a chicken and egg, right, in some emerging economies. The cost of capital is high, and therefore the cost of renewable electricity is high, and therefore people can't afford it and don't pay their bills, and therefore the projects are risky, right? If you can break that kind of vicious cycle, then you, as you say, you get into this uh virtuous cycle where you can build projects and you develop experience and revenue streams and bankability and so on. Um, is that is that improved kind of bankability and the improved off-take agreements, is that down to kind of governments getting better at committing to these long-term agreements and making credible commits to pay? Is it due to having other customers, maybe private sector customers? I mean, what what's unlocking that?
SPEAKER_01Um I would say it's it's a bit of both, right? So so so when it comes to um uh governments committing, yes, it that's absolutely the case, and even more so in more developing economies, because there the private market for electrons is obviously uh you know either doesn't exist or is still very is not mature enough. Uh that's where governments come in. Now, if you if you put yourself in the shoes of the off-taker of governments in this scenario, um given renewables is the cheapest form of electricity, signing long-term off-take agreements at the cheapest possible source is not something that is uh that that that is from an overall economic perspective, uh uh you know, is a pretty wise decision. Because at the end of the day, if you're signing, let's say, a power purchase agreement with a solar with a solar plant for over 20 years, right now this the cost at which that plant can dispatch the energy is by far the lowest as compared to other sources. And therefore, that has uh facilitated uh and to be honest, fast-tracked uh governments to sign and take up these long-term agreements. So that's more on the on the on the on, say, let's say, the the developing economies. When it comes to the developed economies, um that very reason, i.e., the economics of the projects, the economics of the ability to generate electrons at the cheapest price possible, have driven demand in the private market as well. So, for example, if we look at the US, uh uh we've seen a significant rise in not just demand as a result of AI, a significant increase in power purchase agreements, long-term power purchase agreements, that private offtakers are signing with us. And these are these are corporates, these are manufacturers, these are industries that are signing long-term off-take agreements. Uh, and again, the primary reason for that is because it's the cheapest form of electricity that's available. So I would say as a result of the economics, that has driven both uh governments and and long-term offtakers, maybe in more developing economies, but also uh um, you know, private players as well to sign and take up long-term agreements because it works. It gives them that price certainty and it works from their perspective.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. Um, you mentioned the US. That's an interesting one. Obviously, a lot of things going on on the AI side, on electricity demand and on the renewable side, um, and a complicated kind of environment as well, different states, different policies, and so on. Um what are some of the kind of competitive advantages that you that you as Mastar bring to a situation like like that? Um, you know, it it is a competitive space. Well, what enables you you to win and uh in that environment?
SPEAKER_01So, as you said, uh the US is it's it's almost uh because of the diversity in terms of states, it's it's uh it's a it's a it's a country or uh states are basically multiple countries within a country. Uh there are various obviously state regulations, but then there are various federal sort of regulations as well, uh, various tax incentives which uh have been in place over the past uh few years or so, the past decade or so, specifically when it comes to renewables and the deployment of renewables. And recently some of those tax incentives have been have been curtailed and they are curtailing in the uh they're being effectively phased out over the next few years. So so when it when it comes to the US uh and and your question on competitive advantage, I think one of the key things there, I mean, if you look at our our platform, our our one of our largest platforms globally, our platform in the US is called Terragen, and we're present in uh California, we're present in Texas, and we're also expanding in the PGM market, which is effectively the northeast of the country. And and the current capacity that we have is north of five gigawatts. So this is a sizable, sizable platform which has been built over the years. I think the key thing there is a few things. Number one is having a solid management team that has a track record of building and of developing and building projects. Now, when you build a project, and especially in more developed economies, the hoops that you have to jump through in terms of securing land, getting the regulatory permits, getting your environmental studies done are quite significant. Uh and in the case of the US, for example, getting your tax incentives secured, they involve a lot of expertise, a lot of competencies in order to get to a point where you have a fully wrapped project, which you can now effectively sign PPAs on and commit to providing electrons. So having a management team who has a track record of delivery when it comes to all of these aspects is absolutely critical. Uh the Terragen Management team that we have in the US is has been has has had an amazing track record in terms of growth. Uh, as I said, we're close to almost six gigawatts of overall capacity, and we have a significantly higher pipeline in pretty much all three of these uh jurisdictions in California, in Texas, and in the Northeast uh as well. Um and one thing which which which also differentiates us, yes, we've got the management team, but then it's just the true skill. Once you get at a certain, or once you achieve a certain skill, it just unlocks opportunities across the board. So unlocks opportunities from a top line perspective, PPAs, the ability, the relationships that we have with customers, the ability to sign uh uh long-term contracts with those customers and provide them with electrons in multiple parts of the country, uh, the relationships with OEMs and supply from a supply chain perspective, the ability to secure panels, the ability to secure wind turbines, the ability to secure batteries, uh, you know, it's sufficient enough lead time. And then lastly, the the the from a financing perspective, the relationships with banks and the ability to raise capital. Uh so so again, it's it's in the US, it's we, you know, it's in a jurisdiction in a developed economy like the US, it's about having the right management team, having the right relationships. And then once you achieve a certain amount of skill, which we have, is using that scale to unlock that pipeline going forward.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yes, that's oh, that's extremely interesting. You mentioned scale, yeah, because I guess the the kind of the soft costs, the development costs for a 10-megawatt project are maybe not that different from a gigawatt project, right? But the the economies of scale obviously far more when you're when you're stepping up to that kind of gigawatt scale. Absolutely. Um I guess also to the point that renewable that renewables have become a major industry now and actually a very material part of power supply also makes you politically more significant, right? When you have a conversation with a with a governor or or or a president, then they take you seriously because you know you're actually the point that you that you matter very seriously for the whole energy economy, right?
SPEAKER_01Agreed, agreed, agreed. I mean, our our operations, again, d uh Terragen, our platform, is a prime example. We are one of the largest, if not the largest, uh uh solar provider of electricity in in California. And that results in us really not just understanding how the regulation works and unlocking new. New projects at pace, but also gives us the ability to have the relevant connections to be able to accelerate those things.
SPEAKER_00We've seen this transformation of the technology and economics of renewable energy over the past few years, as you say. The role of batteries are getting more and more important, I think, we're with the stage where renewables these days are almost always teamed with batteries in some way, whether we're directly at the site or or as part of the network. How do you see that developing over the next five to ten years? What do you see as kind of the major changes to expect in in the economics of renewable energy over the next decade or so?
SPEAKER_01Um that's a very interesting question. And it it's it's i if I if I just look at let's say the history of renewables and the you know, in in in the past uh uh let's say two 20 years or so, um, if you look at the deployment of solar energy, it's 2026. In 2006, we had approximately globally six to seven gigawatts of solar energy that was deployed globally. These days, that amount of solar energy alone is being deployed in a mere in a mere four to five days. So we we've seen a significant, significant uptake in the past uh uh couple of decades of renewable energy. Now, uh with batteries obviously coming into the into the mix, uh trying to address the intermittency aspect of things. I uh you know, and that that's one area which which which I personally believe that uh batteries, we're gonna see more and more technological advances in batteries, and that as a result of that is not just going to increase, similar to what solar has what's happened with solar, increase the efficiency of the efficiency of these batteries, but also is going to increase the life and cycle times of these batteries. Because one of the key things with batteries is cycle times. I mean, uh already in the battery space, we've seen technological advancements. Uh uh traditionally, what were NMC batteries, nickel, manganese, cobalt batteries, had cycle times of anywhere between one to four thousand cycles. Uh, and now we have uh LFP batteries, uh, which are lithium-iron phosphate batteries, which have cycle times of five to ten thousand times, which are now things that we're actually using uh uh in the specifically the energy storage at the at a utility scale perspective. So we've already seen significant advancement in technology and batteries. And to be honest, I only expect that to exponentially grow going forward. So even if the technological advancements, let's say in the next decade or so, are half or even one-fourth of what they've been in the past couple of decades, we're looking at a significant, not just reduction in cost, but a reduction in base load uh energy, base load uh uh electrons, uh with the hybridization, with the help and with the assistance of batteries. So over the next decade, I think it's it's going to be a very interesting, uh, very interesting times, uh specifically for renewables. Obviously, that coupled with the fact that the demand is just increasing uh at a massive pace, uh, just to cater for that demand. Renewables in of itself are not going to be enough. It's going to come through all uh uh uh, let's say, uh, you know, um technologies on the spectrum, but it gives renewables a significant, significant advantage. Uh, you know, increase in demand, better technology, lowering costs. Uh, and and and for a company like us, they're that we're a true global company, uh, you know, we we're present in, as I said, in almost all continents, uh, we can leverage off our supply chain, our relationships, we can leverage off our uh relationships that we have with financial institutions. I think we're very, very well placed to really capitalize on these opportunities.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we've talked a lot about wind and solar and batteries, which I guess are the core of your portfolio. There are other renewables, of course, hydro, I guess, globally being the big one. To what extent do the other renewables play a part in your strategy?
SPEAKER_01So our core technologies uh continue to be solar, uh wind, both onshore and offshore, uh, and batteries in terms of storage. We have a few other technologies as well when it comes to storage. We are currently building one of the largest pumped hydro plants in Greece. We are in geothermal as well. Uh, but going forward, we expect the top three that I mentioned: solar, wind, both onshore, offshore, and batteries to be our key vectors of growth. The other technologies, such as hydro, such as pumped hydro, which is a variant of hydro, and geothermal, the the challenge with those technologies is that those technologies are only deployable in certain jurisdictions, in certain markets, in certain parts of the world where, for example, geothermal energy is available at an economy or rather at um at a sufficient enough depth that it's economically viable. Uh, same thing with hydro. I mean, you can't uh, let's say, you know, build a hydro plant in the middle of a desert, for example. So it requires, it's very specific. So we are, we are in those technologies and we are uh making the most of them in parts of the world where we can, but the other technologies are much more easily deployable across the globe. So therefore, we see the primary growth coming from those three.
SPEAKER_00Now, you as a CFO, you're obviously managing the business of a very fast-growing company, and which is now also a large company, but still with a lot of growth to come. How do you kind of go about ensuring that's disciplined growth, that you can actually handle these projects, that they give the returns you you want, that you go for the right opportunities and and uh and and move on from things that aren't working? I mean, how do you how do you cope with that? Uh well, it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's it's it's uh I mean, at the end of the day, we given we're investing into infrastructure projects. And again, as I mentioned earlier, infrastructure projects require or give you returns over multiple decades. So we are talking about 20, 30 year projects. Uh uh, you know, the variables that go into that are quite significant, right? So so the way we de-risk ourselves and make sure that A, we sufficiently de-risk ourselves, but also uh our the our ability to generate sufficient returns. And then as a result of that, B, attract more and more capital through either financial institutions or through corporate financing, which we do here at uh here at HU through through green bond investors. I mean, for us, it's it's all it's all about sufficiently de-risking the project. Uh now, how do we do that? Uh uh again, the number one, if I look at it sort of top line-wise, it's it's long-term uh sorry, long-term uh revenue security. So, so signing long-term offtake agreements. Uh uh, yeah, you know, we we'd want to basically secure ourselves uh uh over the long term through either long-term PPAs, whether it's corporate PPAs, whether it's PPAs through sole offtakers backed by governments in developing economies. And that gives us that certainty, right? The moment you have that certainty, that really unlocks more capital, especially when it comes to project financing and the banks putting in more money from that perspective. Umber two, uh, I would say is supply chain. Uh so from a supply chain perspective, again, being a true global player, having the relationships and having the ability to source panels and equipment and turbines and batteries from one part of the world and being able to deploy them in another part of the world, that really gives us uh that uh you know the ability to leverage off our true global size. Um and then lastly, yeah, as I said, uh from a financing uh perspective. So when we look at there's so many variables that go into this decision-making process, uh uh, you know, the uncertainty around uh long-term uh prices, long-term inflation rates, interest rates, foreign currency. We basically try to make sure that we're sufficiently mitigating those as much as possible, attracting as much as possible in terms of project financing on individual projects, and obviously at the end of the day, providing our shareholders uh uh the the returns and maximizing those desired returns. So they're various variables. It's not an easy exercise. You have to you have to balance all of them, especially in long-term projects, because those are risks that you are exposed to over multiple years. Uh, but yeah, you have to come up with mechanisms to uh to deal with each and I'll I'll provide an example of the RTC project, for example. In our RTC project, this is a six billion dollar project. Again, first time one gigawatt base load through five gigawatts of solar and 19 gigawatt hours of battery. Out of that six billion dollars, we've managed as a result of how we have secured our PPAs, our overall sourcing from a battery and solar perspective, we've managed to secure more than $5 billion of project financing via 13 banks, which means that the banks put in $5 billion because they trust that the projects will be providing the necessary returns over the long term. We put in our $1 billion, which are equity, and that gives us the ability to extract more and more returns from the project as an equity investor. So, again, that's a prime example of a giga scale project where all these factors were controlled in such a way that they they provide the max maximize the returns that we make and uh therefore providing value to our shareholders.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you. I think that's a great note to end on that with your flagship project. So thanks very much, Masur Khan, for joining us for this episode of Future Energy Insights with the World Future Energy Summit. I'm Robert Mills, and thank you for joining us for this episode, and hope you'll attend the next episode again. And also join us in person for the World Future Energy Summit taking place in Abu Dhabi between the 12th and 14th of January 2027. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Robert. Thank you very much. Very interesting. Oh