Ep. 10 Consumer Behavior and Morality, Chethana Achar, Northwestern

Join Suzan and Northwestern's Chethana Achar as they discuss how understanding the moral DNA of your market should inform decisions about products at every stage.



January 2023
ExecU Podcast
Episode 10:  Morality and Consumer Behavior with Chethana Achar, Northwestern

BRIEF SUMMARY OF EPISODE

Chethana Achar is currently an Assistant Professor Of Marketing at Northwestern University in the Kellogg School of Management. She studies social stigma and how it shapes consumer behavior, with a focus on public health marketing. Chethana investigates how stigmatization of health issues and risky behaviors shapes consumers' likelihood for seeking healthcare support for mental health issues, vaccinations, illness screenings, etc. She investigates a broad spectrum of beliefs about morality, including the strength of moral beliefs and variance in what people perceive to be moral and not moral. 

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KEY TAKEAWAY

 “We now,  in the last 10- 15 years or so, are seeing this sort of value-angle come up to business, where it's not just about defining the features of your product, it's also about what the product stands for and what the person that's selling the product stands for.  I think our society clearly has reached this point where moral beliefs and values that go behind a brand are an important feature of the brand itself.”

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Chethana’s LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chethana-achar-8192918/

Sponsored by Viv Higher Ed: 

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Transcript

Chetana 0:00

we now, in the last 10, 15 years or so, are seeing this sort of, Value angle come up to business where it's not just about defining the features of your product, it's also about what the product stands for and what the person that's selling the product stands for. I think our society clearly has reached this point where moral beliefs and values that go behind a brand is an important feature of the brand itself.

0:25

welcome to Execute the podcast, bringing you actionable insights from faculty at the world's top business schools. I'm your host, EAN Brinker, and today we'll be sharing a conversation with Chaan Achar. She's an assistant professor of marketing at Northwestern Kellogg School of Business, and we'll be talking about moral beliefs and consumer behavior.

Suzan 0:46

jay, it's great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being with us. How are you?

Chetana 0:51

Thank you for having me over, Suzanne. I am well, and I'm very excited to be chatting with.

Suzan 0:56

Same here. So you are at Northwestern Kellogg, and I would just love to hear a little bit about the journey that brought you there. How did you get interested in your research area or areas and how did you end up at Kellogg?

Chetana 1:10

So I study healthcare marketing, and I specifically look at socio model cultural factors that shape healthcare choices. And a lot of my inspiration for my research is really personal and very anecdotal. I feel and I don't know how generalizable this is, but I feel like growing. As a woman and as a woman of color, sometimes decisions that should be clinical, like healthcare choices, would sometimes have the sort of model angle to them right? like This cultural angle. And I'll give you a specific anecdote which set me off. And this whole moral aspect of health choices So I didn't grow up at a um, time or place where I would get the HPV vaccine. Do you know the HPV vaccine is for Yes. Yeah. So when so when I was a teenager, so that's something I had to do, make a choice off as an adult in my twenties and get the vaccine. I knew my friends were vaccinated for hpv, so I was at this annual physical with my doctor, and I mentioned to her saying, okay, look, I don't have. I am not vaccinated for hpv and I think I know it's probably like my insurance cover set. I'm at the age range that's at high risk for hpv. So all these clinical reasons, like rational reasons why someone should get them are checked out. So I'll, you know, I think I'm here, so just I'll get this shot. And um, then this doctor takes a little pause and um, she says, yeah, sure. We could get you the shot, but if you are monogamous and I know you have a partner, then you don't need the shot. Okay. And that, that, that made me pause and that made me and I then didn't push it because when it was framed as a question of monogamy rather than a medical decision, it brought up all these framings about why you need to do it, right? So are you planning to sleep around? Are you I don't know, whatever else. So in hindsight, I thought a lot about this situation specifically, but also this type of situation where consumers make these decisions that are supposed to be clinical and rational. Like risk is defined by your age, risk is defined by your lifestyle, and so on. They have these other factors of what others will think of me. What, how will people judge me? What does this say about me that I need to get tested for, I don't know, hiv aids, you know, so all, all these different socio model things that shape choices in domains that we don't think we shape. So that's that, that's really like the heart of my research. And a lot of the, this in this specific incident I mentioned, happened to me when I was in the PhD program. It's one of those things that really pushed my thinking. I went and looked up on if there was work on this type of stuff that wasn't, then it took me a year or two to get research started because there's this whole academic research takes its own time. You need to study these things in a very systematic way. And I ended up at Northwestern, because Northwestern is one of those schools where, which is of course very well known for marketing. This is the marketing department at Northwestern is very famous, but they also appreciate this type of theoretical research that looks at big picture questions about marketing. And so it was a very good fit for me after

Suzan 4:16

my PhD. Thank you for sharing that anecdote. One of your research areas is moral beliefs and how they shape consumer choices. And now when you tell that anecdote, you're almost already defining what a moral belief is. And in that context it becomes very clear this, this idea of monogamy and that driving the. Consumer choice that you were supposed to make in that moment, which is not take the vaccine. That is really interesting and troubling and yeah. Let's take a step back for a minute and also define moral belief, the way that you define it in marketing, in, in consumer behavior, and in your research.

Chetana 4:55

Moral beliefs are both very easy to define and very hard to define. They're very easy to define because what they really mean is this people's categorization of what's right and wrong. And then, you know, people have these complex categorizations of this is right, this is wrong. And that's just their in their head. Now, that's a simple way of defining it, is the belief system of what's right and what's wrong. Okay. Now the complex part of it is that there doesn't seem to be one definition. Of what let or one deciding factor of what makes people think something is right or wrong. It seems to be all over the place. People in different cultures seem to have different beliefs about it. People of different age groups, different ideologies, everything. So it's complex in that, in that we don't know exactly what it is, but we can uh, define it like in a very macro way and say that it's people's, in each individual person's belief of right versus.

Suzan 5:51

Absolutely. Each individual's personal belief of what's right and wrong makes total sense. So I know you study healthcare specifically in healthcare marketing specifically, but you also had Kellogg work with executive audiences, right? That come from different industries, not just healthcare and. When you consider, why it is important for leaders and organizations to understand the power of moral beliefs and how they impact consumer behavior. Can you talk a little bit about why that is so critical?

Chetana 6:20

So I obviously think it's critical and I'm probably a biased audience for it because I'm immersed in that research. But here's the thing. Marketing as a discipline It started off in the last one century, like as a systematic discipline, right? And. The way we've thought about products is from a very utility perspective is that, is it convenient? Does it fulfill a need? Or from this type of enjoyment perspective, is it fun for people to do? Is it, is it like a horror show and people love feeling horrified, and so it sells. But I think. I see a lot of the executive trend moving towards is this thing not just about looking about utility of a product and enjoyment of a product, but also about values aligned with the product or what it represents, and We see a lot more social movements get conversed with brands these days, and that stems from moral beliefs. It's about people think that no, you as a brand cannot be quiet about some issue. You have to identify yourself and state your stance. So we now, I think in the last 10, 15 years or so, are seeing this sort of, Value angle come up to business where it's not just about defining the features of your product, it's also about what the product stands for and or what the person that's selling the product stands for. So I think now We've clearly reached, we probably have been working towards it, but I think our society clearly has reached this point where moral beliefs and values that go behind a brand is an important feature of the brand itself. So I talk to my students always about being aware of the audience's values.

Suzan 7:56

Absolutely. I'm thinking about Patagonia and the recent decision to donate the company to the planet, but even before then, always having this really strong commitment to giving. 10% I believe, of their revenue or profit. To climate related causes. Do you have another, maybe a case study or a story where an organization maybe made the decision? We're really gonna lean into this, I don't wanna call it a trend, but into this need to identify how we're going to attract people around our. By playing to their moral beliefs.

Chetana 8:30

Yes, I absolutely, yes, and I think the more sophisticated. Case studies or examples of that. It's not about firms or BA brands, essentially giving money or, branding themselves around something. But the more sophisticated way, in my opinion to look at consumer moralities, like bringing, building it into your product. Okay, here's a, here's an example. So you know, swifter maps the wet map. Yeah. So Swer Maps obviously hugely popular in the us It's very convenient, right? Like you quickly, you don't need to go load water and then mop your floor and then go ditch the water or some things. It's so Swifter Maps launched maps in Italy in early two thousands, and a lot of European markets, I think even mid two thousands maybe. And it didn't do well in Italy at. They almost flopped, and their branding was pretty, almost exactly the same as what they did in the us. They spoke about how it's so convenient you could just get it off of a pack and then mop and then your mopping is done. And it didn't work. So that was a puzzle for the brand team back then because they wondered about what went wrong because they knew this was a successful product. This has been a gold star product in the US market. And they had done all this testing where people agreed that, yeah, this is very convenient. So they didn't know why it was not working, and then they did a lot of post market research. So you go back, this is the type of research you do after something has happened, and then you go figure out why that thing happened. And in this case they did a lot of qualitative stuff where they went into depth and spoke to these homemakers, mostly women who brought the maps. And what came out of that research was that a lot of these women believe that if something was convenient, then it meant that you were a lazy person. So if I'm using a very convenient product, it means I'm not a good mom. Or something that I am lazy. I'm not super modeled because I'm not super hardworking. so do you see how that's like an insight about people's model beliefs that's ingrained into the product? It's not about just donating money, it's not about some type of social media hashtag, and then they went back and they realized that, okay, what we are thinking of convenience as this positive spin is actually a negative spin because people think a good person is hardworking.

Suzan 10:42

That makes total sense. And it's also sad, but it makes total sense. I

Chetana 10:47

mean, I know it's, yes, it's, I see why you would call it sad, but in my perspective, that's the culturally held belief. I don't know how to editorialize it as right or wrong, but that's what is

Suzan 10:57

believed in that culture. Absolutely. And how valuable to have done that post-market research so that they can understand and shift the positioning for that culture.

Chetana 11:06

Exactly. So they then shifted it to not base so much heavily on convenience. They then shifted it to base it as they sold it as the last step after you've done all your hard work. So you do the real mopping, right? What is hard work and what a good person does. And then you do swifter just as like a finishing touch on your No. Yes,

Suzan 11:25

And it worked. Of course it worked. Yes, of course

Chetana 11:28

it works. This is a successful story, but this is what I mean. I hope I'm making this point as well as I hope I'm making, is that this is the sophisticated way to understand consumer morality. It's not just about donating to the thing that's popular right now. Of course paying with your wallet helps, but I think as a business person, you need to have that inherent understanding of the moral DNA of your market, and you need to build it into your product at every. Not just as a corporate sponsorship thing, but like product and design, positioning, how you speak to consumers and so

Suzan 12:01

on. Makes total sense to me. I'm sure every industry has its mm-hmm. perceptions that, marketing leaders should be aware of. But then culture by culture as you illustrate it, there are nuances that leaders need to be aware of. How is this insight that you've had studying morality and consumer behavior, something that an organizational leader, even if they're not in marketing mm-hmm. can keep front and center, as they lead the organization.

Chetana 12:27

So I think there are a few different ways, what I think is important and often overlooked is to think about features of what they're offering beyond product features, right? So I mentioned about how Typically we think about the reason why someone buys something for reasons like convenience, for reasons like price, for reasons, like it's fun. But I think it's important for entrepreneurs to also understand the values and beliefs of their. Target segment of the people that they're talking to, beyond just what they think is relevant to their product. If you're selling a map, then thinking about the convenience is that thinking about the product level, but understanding that hard work is important is about understanding your target segment, right? So I think people need to look beyond what they're offer. And look at their market and what the market holds to be values or beliefs, and then try to be in sync with that. I would say is my takeaway from a lot of my

Suzan 13:27

research. Yeah. And I'm sure not just in marketing, but across organizational functions. Yes. It, there's always a need for research or there's always this consensus, we need more research on X, Y, and Z, but research is often deprioritized. Would you agree? You know, That it's like, oh, we have urgent fires to put out, we can't really spend months and months or millions of dollars or however much it would cost on research, so it falls by the wayside. What kind of research have you seen be most effective? You just mentioned post market research, which is really interesting. But is their persona research, competitive positioning and maybe what is low hanging fruit in terms of research that organization leader can pursue that you think should not be negotiable.

Chetana 14:12

So I think the research gets more and more expensive and understandably the more you customize it, the more you want to study a specific question, a specific product. And especially if it's your new product, then it of course gets very expensive. But I think one way to stay on top of what's happening with the market is to be in touch with the type of research that looks at broad trends. that type of data usually scales up. It's far less expensive because it's not conducted for like one firm or one client. A lot of the research firms and even government agencies, because I study a lot of healthcare stuff, a lot of the data just is free. Because people keep observing these trends. I think if you are someone that doesn't want to spend a lot of money burned through money on specific research questions, I would say the bare minimum that one ought to keep in touch with research is population trends and Cultural trends especially. What are people liking? What are people caring? And there's a bunch of different data sets that track sentiment. And if you just have a pulse of the segment, so to speak, you know, a pulse of the market, that itself is I think, quite helpful for how costly. And often it's like almost no cost. Often it's free off and it's very cheap because they're not really doing that research for you. It's market level research. I think that is like the bare minimum research, I think anyone at any level of

Suzan 15:34

business should be doing.

15:35

executive. The podcast is sponsored by ViiV Higher Education, a full service marketing agency and enrollment strategy consulting firm for colleges and universities. ViiV is passionate about executive education and lifelong learning. Today's episode is brought to you in collaboration with the Northwestern Kellogg School of Management.

Suzan 15:56

And then there's also the research that happens as part of just running your business, right. and learning by doing. What have you seen be effective as executives try to keep track of the insights that they've gained by putting their product in market, maybe a prototype, maybe the finished product, they launch it. How can you best track your insights around how it's resonating with the target A. So there's a few

Chetana 16:19

different ways. I think the traditionally solid way that people who do it, and this is also a low cost way, and I think this still holds pretty true, is to talk to your channel partners. Now, the idea of what a channel partner uh, has changed a lot these days. A lot of times you. Channel partner now is like some online streaming service or something. So in which case, I think just talking to people who are downstream members of whatever it's you're selling, it could be the product manager on your streaming partner. It could be the mom and pop shop that's selling your, handmade products. Anything. I think just talking to them is very cost effective because they have the sense of what goes on shelves, what gets off shelve. So I think that's a very nice, streamlined, efficient way to keep in touch with what's happening in the market is to be in touch with your channel partners and in a, in a very qualitative sense. Talk to them who's buying, what are they liking about it? What are they not liking about it? And so on. And because, there are millions of consumers, but there's only tens or twenties of channel partners, it's far more efficient to do that

Suzan 17:25

type of research. Absolutely. And how would you get at moral Beliefs, right? As you get that feedback from your channel partners, how do you tease those out?

Chetana 17:33

so here's the funny thing about moral beliefs. I use this academic language to say it but of course that's not, those are not the words people will use. You will have to look out for sort of intuitive. Judgements that people have about something right or wrong without them using those words. Now, the swifter mob thing is that they, maybe someone, your mom and pop shop might say, you know what? I know someone that you know, she thinks she's a very hard working homemaker, so she doesn't want to buy this because this just sounds lazy to hush, and you, you need to decode that as a model belief the same. Um, Pricing, you were talking about pricing research. So if you have a channel partner that'll say something like you know what, this pricing seems too low. They don't think it, the product is going to be good. And then you have to decode that. People have this inference that if something is very cheap and it's not high quality, even though it could be cheap for other reasons, right? Like very high quality products could be very cheap. So you need to, I guess the trick with something as subjective, as moral beliefs is people will not express them in that manner, but that they'll just say something they believe is true about the world and you need to decode it to understand that, oh, there is a right, wrong judgment that's going on that I need to be mindful

Suzan 18:50

of. It makes just so much sense. I wonder how many leaders or product managers, executives are tuned into that kind. Decoded moral language or if it's just an intuitive thing that some people just understand more intuitively, but it does seem to be at the very core of what makes a product successful. When I hear you talk about it,

Chetana 19:11

yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the beauty of it, is that and this is the academic belief also, is that moral judgments are very intuitive. It's not something that people think a lot about or it just feels right or wrong.

Suzan 19:23

So you have published research on that topic and it's been a pillar of your career. Is there a new research challenge that's really keeping you up at night that you're trying to crack?

Chetana 19:35

So my other stream of research that we haven't spoken about, A lot today because it really doesn't apply to the mass markets that much. Is studying stigma. So very often stigma's been studied and type of sociology type of intergroup tension type context. But I like to study stigma as another socio model factor that sort of plays into people's consumption patterns. Like how. For example just like the vaccine thing I told you about is that that it's that stigma of, having multiple sexual partners of having a non monogamous life. The other type of stigma that sort of creeps up in a lot of my research is stigma related to mental health. Seeking which again, when there's a conversation about mental health and if I am a marketer, let's say I have an app that helps people track their mental health symptoms and so on, right? So a lot of focus is spent on making it convenient, pricing it and so on. But my research looks at how do we take away. The stigma associated with things that are beneficial to consumers. And that really, I think is my big picture problem that I try to solve with a lot of my research is that it seems like a lot of. Good things, and I'm putting good in quotes because I understand good is very subjective. But good as in good for the health, good for the social public health, things are stigmatized. Like screening for diseases that people might be embarrassed about or getting help with is health issues are consuming. Stuff like period products, sanitary napkins, birth control, and there are so many of these little things that we think about as niche issues, but they're all, they all have this aspect of stigma to them. And I think my big problem I try to get at it a little bit with every little project is about destigmatizing. What are decidable behavior?

Suzan 21:32

It sounds related, but also deserving of its own research stream at the same time. Yeah. So coming from that from your context of research, but also maybe going beyond it a little bit, what advice would you give current or emerging leaders who are hoping to make a big impact on their organizations?

Chetana 21:48

I think. To me, almost a defining feature of a good leader is someone that is forward looking. And I'm using the phrase forward looking because forward looking is a very non-trivial, complex judgment. You need to understand people's sentiments, but you also need to have an idea of how. The country's moving, the economy is moving. Are these jobs going to be there 15 years down the lane and so on. And at the same time, which again, it has these qualities of empathy, trying to understand people that work with you. All these emotional and rational judgements together make someone very good at being forward looking. And I think that's why that is a very important quality in a leader to me. And which is why it's not that easy to come by, right? It's not, it is a fairly

Suzan 22:33

rare attribute. Yeah, so a good leader is someone who is forward looking and that is not a non-trivial or non-complex trait. I love that. That's a really good way of putting it, So in your teaching at Kellogg, you obviously have a front row seat to what Kellogg is all about. And if you think about the vast array of options that today's executives or emerging leaders have for education, what do you think makes Kellogg stand out?

Chetana 23:03

I would say the Kellogg experience is very uniquely collaborative. It's not the type of business environment, which is an individual competitive type environment. It's a diverse, collaborative group of people that you get to work with and that you get to study with when you come to Kellogg. I have heard from students that they seem to really enjoy that once they move on to firms or end up taking up leadership roles because it's always in the mindset of being a team player and as a part of a bigger group than just being an individual.

Suzan 23:38

It's also compelling because I think speaking of stigma or moral beliefs that a lot of people might even say, leadership is not for me. I don't wanna lead big teams. I don't wanna lead big organizations because I'm not that competitive. Yeah. I feel like I've heard people say that in my own life where I think they have really great leadership potential or intuitions. They kinda shy away from it because they don't wanna be too competitive or come across as too driven, especially with women, which is troubling as well. But it's good to hear that Kellogg is taking a different approach and almost reframes, what leadership is and what executive positions can look like.

Chetana 24:14

Yeah, we've been speaking about all these inferences people make from one thing, which might not be true, but I think. People have traditionally believe that if you're successful, you are a leader, you somehow lack those warmth qualities of being empathetic, being a good team player. I personally don't think that is true. And I think Kellogg has. Always held this value of bringing both of them together and that is reflected, like you said, and our very collaborative, diverse culture is that we don't think it's necessarily one or the other. I think good leaders are both of them. They have the emotional com, warmth competent. They're obviously very competent and very smart, and somehow that makes them a

Suzan 24:56

good leader. So usually I end with the question, in a nutshell, what does leadership mean to you? But you've already given a really great answer about leadership being about being forward looking. So maybe I'll reframe the question just a little bit and ask you personally as a leader in the classroom, as a researcher, and when you work with executives and maybe potentially as a consultant with organizations, what do you care most about? What do you hold yourself accountable to as a leader?

Chetana 25:25

my perspective as a leader very much is as an educator, so I think my idea of good leadership. Is someone that creates a very competent space, but also a very warm space. So my classrooms, when I, my things that I teach to both my PhD students, MBA students, my own research It's very rigorous. It's very scientific. I follow the goal standards of science, but at the same time, I try to keep myself very approachable and present for people, and those are I think, are my values of leadership.

Suzan 25:58

Another tension that people might construct is you can't be warm and rigid or vigorous, you know about your standards at the same time. and I'm glad to hear that you've busted that myth because it sounds like your students are getting the best of both

Chetana 26:11

worlds. Yeah I try my best, I don't know how much the myth is busted, but. I do what I can

Suzan 26:16

do thank you so much for sharing your insightful research with us. It was a pleasure having you on the show. I really enjoyed learning from you and I can't wait to share this episode with the world.

Chetana 26:27

It was an absolute pleasure also, Susan. Thanks for having me aware.

26:31

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