Episode 165: The Eriksson Twins

 In this episode Janus and Joyous dive into the strange Folie a Deus case of Sabina and Ursula Eriksson, two women whose bizarre behavior lead to shutting down a major highway, many unanswered questions, and the death of a good human being.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Unsung Murder Ballads is a true crime podcast, and as such, we will be discussing topics that are disturbing, graphic, and often violent in nature. So this is not for children under the age of 13.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

But you know this because you did start playing this episode. So here are some things you might not know about us.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

We are going to be critical of mistakes made by both criminals and law enforcement.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

We're going to express our views on things that you might not always agree with.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

We will occasionally go on an off-topic tangent.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And we are going to use dark humor to express ourselves now and then.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

So if you're easily triggered, this might not be the podcast for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

However, if this is your cup of tea, then raise your pinky finger while you sip and join us for this week's horrific case, you sick bastards.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I am Janice Dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

And I'm Joyce Dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Alright, it's time for another fucked up case. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Okay, well, great start. All right, let's jump on in.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

This one's this one's really odd. Uh the first time I heard about this, I actually thought, because of okay, I gotta back up. The first time I heard about this case, it was because I watched a video of the event itself. I can't even talk. A beginning of the first event itself. And I honestly thought I thought I watched a scene from a movie. That's how that's how fucked up it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

I was like Well, we love these truth is stranger than fiction cases.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

I am not kidding. Like, I literally watched what this the we're we're we'll get into it fairly quickly, but I when I watched the events of this case, I was like, there's no way that's real. Like that's a movie. Um I seriously thought it was like found footage or they were doing like the parody of cops, like the Reno 911 show. I seriously thought that's what I was watching, and then I found out it was real.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Jesus, okay, and I didn't excited to I'm excited now.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Well, the funny part was I didn't dig any deeper. Yeah, I was like, okay, that's that's real. All right, that was weird. And then later it showed up in my feed again, and I found out that there was shit that happened after the events of what I thought you'll you'll see, but I couldn't I couldn't believe it. And I was like, we're doing this case, ASAP.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

All right, wild case, case by algorithm. Thank you, algorithm.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Right? Okay. On March 17th, 2008, police officers Tracy Cope and Paul Finlison were called to the M6 Motorway near Stoke on Trant after reports from a pedestrian that had been hit by a vehicle.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Stoke on Trant. Are we in uh the UK?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

We are in the UK, and I was gonna say this is sort of in between Liverpool and London, I believe. Somewhere in the general area.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

That kind of name British.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Well, when and I knew when I said it, I was like, you're gonna know exactly UK. Like, there's no I can't think of another country that does that.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

So And you know what? That specific place name sounds like a parody of a British place name, which fits the case perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

And that's why it was stoke on Trent. Like, what?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And that's why I'm like on what?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, exactly. It was on first.

unknown 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Exactly. So expecting the worst, these two police officers were dispatched, and when they arrived, they were kind of surprised to see that there was just a car sitting on the side of the road, a transit authority officer sitting there as well, and two pedestrian women just standing there calmly talking. No one seemed injured. They were just standing on the shoulder of the motorway. So when the police officers get out, they're sitting there talking to the transit officer, and the two middle-aged women are standing nearby when suddenly one of them runs out into the traffic as vehicles are going by. Oh Lord. Just darts right out in front of them. And amazingly, it's all caught on camera because these police officers that responded to the call were actually filming with a film crew when they got this call.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Well, like as a part of a show or something?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

As part of like the UK version of cops, yes. Which is a weird thing that exists, first of all, that we are making a reality show out of something as private as like policing is But people really want to know about what that life is like, especially when you get the chases and the arrests and you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Like it's true. You know, I I don't I'm I'm not surprised that there's a market for it. I'm just surprised that it's like legal.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Right. If it makes sense, I think it I think now they have to censor a whole lot more than they did back in the day when it first started.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

But who knows? So this is the case of the Ericsson twins, which is also known as Folia Do. And I'm assuming you know what that phrase means, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Um, I don't know what folly means, but duh is two in French, so.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Right. So it's like the folly of two.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Right. So not a lot is known about the lives of twin sisters Sabrina and Ursula Ericsson. They were born in Vermland County in western, sorry, in west central Sweden on Friday, November 13th, 1967. Now these two had two older siblings, a brother and a sister. And while they were at school, the twins were described by some as a little bit odd. They mostly odd. They mostly kept to themselves, but they sometimes had a tendency to be a bit violent.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Now there is no evidence that Sabrina sorry, that Sabina or Ursula were ever treated for any mental health illnesses.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, 1967, I'm not surprised. That's true. Does not mean the absence of them.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

True. Now, following that, after school and into their early adulthood, everything becomes quite the mystery. There's not a lot of information about them. But by the year 2000, both of these women were in their 30s and they had left Sweden. Ursula had relocated to the United States while Sabina was living in Ireland with her partner and two children. It is believed that somewhere between the year 2000 and 2008, Sabina may have spent time in the U.S. visiting her twin sister. Now her son now her son even moved in with Ursula for a period of time. Although there's no information as to why or what was going on. At least not that we know. And that's what makes this case even crazier is how little information there is about these two women.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I'm very interested in what this USA angle is. How is this getting involved in our weird UK events?

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Just that one of them was living there.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Trust me. There's nothing nothing to tie this problem back to the US that we're aware of. Wow, for once. For once. In 2008, it was Ursula's turn to travel. Now the women are in their forties, and Ursula flew to Ireland to stay with her twin sister. Again, it is not known whether this was just a catch-up visit or if there was a specific reason behind the two of them coming together at this point. But what we do know is that during Ursula's time in Ireland, the twins were absolutely inseparable. They had an extremely tight bond. And then suddenly at 2 a.m. on Friday, May 16th, Sabina and Ursula left Ireland without telling anyone what their plans were or what their intentions were.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

These girls are crazy.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

And they're in their 40s at this point.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Right, and they still have one kid there.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

At least, because I think Sabina had two kids with her partner in Ireland.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Mm-hmm. And one of them's in the US. Also, by themselves if they were living with Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Right. But who knows how old these kids are at this point? They could easily be young adults.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

This is very fair. I'm making a lot of assumptions.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah, and that's the problem with this whole case, is a lot of this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

We said we just don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

So the next time we see the twins, they're seen at 8 40 a.m. the following day, which was May 17th, in Liverpool, England. It's believed they traveled from Ireland to England via ferry. They walked into a place called the St. Anne Street Police Station near Liverpool's Liverpool City Center, and Sabina told officers that she was concerned about the safety of her children. Liverpool police contacted their Irish counterparts who then performed a wellness check on Sabina's children and partner. And everything was okay. Like nothing's wrong. Like my when I first again, when I first started digging, I thought, oh fuck, they're dead.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, yeah. But I'm glad they're fine.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, they're fine, so we're good. Sabina's partner told the Irish police that Sabina had just taken off and and he did say that they had had a fight. Now Irish police said that Sabina and Ursula could get in touch with them if they actually had any concerns about the the safety of their family or if they just needed to return to Ireland. Sometime after leaving that police station in Liverpool, the twins got on a National Express coach which was bound for London, and they boarded it.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Is that the taxi?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

It is a bus.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Okay. It's a bus.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

So it's a bus, and they're heading to London. Now the twins each carried a bag with them that they refused to hand over to be put in the coach's luggage area. So instead they both sat in their seat holding their respective bags throughout this journey. Just after 1 PM, this coach, this bus, stopped off at a keel station, which I had to do quite a bit of research for. It's really just a service station or like a rest stop. I don't know why they call them keel stations, especially because when you type in K-E-E-L? Yeah, with an E at the end. K-E-E-L-E. And then when I typed in Keel Station, the first thing I got was some spot in Toronto. It's really weird. So like That is bizarre. So it's apparently like a rest stop slash service area. And it's on this particular one is on the M6. Now, the reason why the bus stopped there is unclear because it was not a scheduled rest stop for them. Now there are some reports that state the stop was made because the because of a driver change, but in other reports they say that it was stopped because of the way Sabina and Ursula were react were acting. They were behaving erratically.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Oh geez.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So the twins disembarked and they had a discussion with the bus driver, and he basically wanted them to store their luggage under the bus and again the storage compartment, but they were refusing. They were refusing. And this made him suspicious.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

What the hell are they doing that that's what he has to intervene? He's like, girls, you better put your if you don't put your bags under this bus right now.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Right. And that's exactly what's happening. And he would not, they not only would he not let them back on, but they wouldn't let him search the bags because he's getting suspicious about what's in the bag.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

What's in the bag?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Well, we're just gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Oh sorry, I was I was trying to paraphrase what's in the box.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Oh sorry, I totally missed it.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Uh I think it's you know, I didn't really say it with the right intonation.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I was gonna say it's the way he says he's like, What's in the box? Yeah, I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

What's in the box? I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

He's so upset. Yeah, oh my god. I missed that. And I'm um I apologize to everyone that I missed a seven reference.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

How dare you!

SPEAKER_01 12:24

It was one of the best movies.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

You showed me that movie.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

It was one of the best movies ever. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

So good.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

So now the driver told the service station's employee, a woman named Melissa, that he wasn't going to let the twins back on. And he essentially handed this issue over to this woman named Melissa, asking her to keep an eye on them after he left. What the fuck's wrong with you, dude? Well, he's got a schedule to keep.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

You know, that I can sort of understand. But I would hate to have been this woman. Like, what are you talking about? You're gonna give me these two crazy bitches? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Right in their fucking bags.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, which could have anything in them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Right? What's up with these bag bitches?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Now Melissa watched the twins as they walked around the service station. They were holding their bags tightly against their chest as though they were terrified of letting them go.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

These girls, they they seem drunk. That's the vibe I'm getting.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, the way they moved and spoke to one another made it seem like they were plotting something. Melissa grew suspicious as the twins wandered as if, you know, I mean, they just wandered about. And she kept wondering if they were actually carrying a bomb or some kind of explosive device in their bags.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

That is kind of what I was starting to think, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

So Melissa calls the police. Now, soon after, officers arrive at the scene and they speak to the twins, but they found nothing suspicious about them. They literally told Melissa that there were no issues and that the two women were just trying to get to London.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Now, it is unclear if they showed this police officer what was in their bag. There's zero information.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

I'm assuming it's something untoward.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

That would that would be the assumption, but we don't know if they actually showed it to the police officer or if he's just taking these women at their word. Because there are those like asshole guys who think women are never a threat.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

True.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

And we've seen I hate to say this, we've seen UK police not take women seriously at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, I mean, we've seen it every goddamn country.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Right, but specifically, I'm thinking about the woman who was being stalked for months and months and months, and the police did nothing.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yes. Oh, yeah, that case is awful.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah. So the police gave the twins a phone number for the coach company so that they could arrange to catch the next bus.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Now okay. As if that they got kicked off the one bus, they're gonna let on this other one.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

It's fucking weird. I just realized this is our second like bus episode.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Wow. And it's been a long time.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

It's been a long time since the first one, which is funny.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Big you go on one of these buses and you feel like something bad's gonna happen.

unknown 15:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I don't know if I'll ever take another bus trip again.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

That's fair. I I take it a lot from to like New York City. That's the cheapest way.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I I haven't I don't believe in driving. I'm I'm too gay. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

I to be on well, you live in Boston, so Yeah, I'm I'm too scared to drive to like the suburbs. I'm a baby.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

The last time I took a bus, it was to Albany, New York, or or Rochester, New York, from here. So similar, a little longer, I think.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And it just feels a little cursed. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Right. So Sabrina and Ursula agreed to this officer's plan that they would call the number and wait for the next bus. But they left pretty much right before the next bus arrived. They just started walking. Oh, okay. They're literally walking down the M6 motorway, which I'm assuming has to be like a really busy, like almost like toll road highway kind of thing. That is what it sounds like. Right. I mean, I mean, granted, it might be nothing. It's titled the M6, which makes it feel like it's really important. You know, but now the M6 is covered by video cameras that monitor everything. And it's it's all visible from their control center in Birmingham.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Now at about Wow, small country, like high population density, you can really put a lot more cameras there.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, it's funny because uh Tori and I were talking about something like this when we were redoing the Frog Boys of Korea case, and she was uh like we were talking about the number of people that were out searching for the boys, and I would have to remind her that South Korea was roughly the size of like Pennsylvania. Maybe a little bigger, and it kind of helps put in perspective that that many people was a lot more than you realize when you're in such a small area. And the UK is kind of the same way, it's not that big. I think UK is about the size of all of New England.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah, it's pretty small.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah. So anyway, at about 3 20 p.m., the twins were captured on cameras walking along their the motorway central reservation. Although there is a low metal barrier on either side of the central reservation, this is that like center walkway kind of thing, divider. It's obviously not safe to be walking there. It's not designed to be to have pedestrians there. Not at all. So a highway patrol agent was dispatched to move the twins off the motorway.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

But keep in mind that these a lot of resources being dispatched for these ladies.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

For these two 40-year-old women just walking around just doing a bunch of weird shit and getting the cops called on them. Now keep in mind the highway agency officers are not police officers. They're their role is to just handle issues on the motorway. They're basically like traffic officers, but they can't really ticket you. Okay. It's weird, it's weird.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Just like public servants, just like keeping an eye on shit.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Basically, yeah. If there's an accident, these officers would kind of sort out traffic movement plans, put up roadblocks, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Mm-hmm. And they wouldn't shoot you because they probably don't carry guns. So that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Very true. And um, I'm pretty sure they don't have the right to pull you over or issue fines. Okay, very chill. Right. So when the twins saw the highway agency car, they jumped out of the central reservation and onto the motorway in front of oncoming traffic. So cars started breaking like hard and they were swerving to avoid running them over. Yeah. But despite their swift everybody's swift responses, one driver accidentally clipped Sabina and she was knocked over. So that's her fault. It definitely 110% her fault.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

You know what? I no longer think they're drunk. I think they're like tripping. I think they're like on a psychedelic. That's my new theory.

unknown 19:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Well, although onlookers feared that Sabina might have serious injuries injuries the injuries, she seemed perfectly fine. She was able to get up, and she and Ursula made their way onto the shoulder of the M6. Now police and paramedics were immediately summoned to the scene. It's at this point that officers Tracy Cope and Finlison responded to the call. And it was, as I said, just so happened that they had a camera crew with them.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

So these two cops were being followed that day by a small crew from the BBC telebirt television program called Motorway Cops. And they were filming these two officers as they went about their shift.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, let's watch cops give tickets. What a great television program.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

You know, you know, I you say this, but I mean, this is part of my research, but I love I I find myself watching a lot of um camera footage from cops, like while they're the ones that are on their chest. I can't body cam footage.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

And uh I hate- I can't fully shit on it.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

I watch a lot of reality TV that's way less interesting than that.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Fair. I I'm blown away by what some people will try to do and say when they're stopped by cops.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

So you know, yeah, truly. That actually has a little bit more reality to it, which makes it interesting.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, there was one very cute woman who got pulled over drunk driving. She failed the sobriety test, they're about to arrest her, and she starts saying that if she if they go ahead and do that because she's here on a visa, she'll get kicked out and she's here for school. And she literally says, I'll do anything, I'll take everything off.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And it's just You know, you gotta full send it. Hail Mary.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I guess so. But you're you know you're you should know you're on camera.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Right, right, and it's you know, you know they they can't really bend the rules for you when they're on camera, in theory. Although I did a good idea at least.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Although I did just watch a thing from John Oliver's last week tonight, a little maybe 30-minute clip about body camera footage and how easy it is for cops to turn them off. Because obviously, well, the problem is they do need to stop and like use the bathroom, you know what I mean? So they do need to be. Yeah, so like they can't just be on all the time. But right, so there's a there's a degree of like, okay, there there are is some privacy there, but at the same time, something has to be done about doing it during a stop.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Right. There I mean, there's forever a dichotomy between privacy and freedom and privacy and safety. And it just always exists.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Right. And again, like I said, they if they're gonna stop and eat at McDonald's, do we really need to save the footage of them eating at McDonald's and then stopping to take a piss or God a shit? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Right. God forbid a shit.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, we don't need to see that or hear it or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Very true, very true.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And actually, it's said on this thing that so little of that footage is actually ever viewed before it's recorded over anyway, because there's so much of it out there.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Right. And it totally makes sense. Like there's just not enough database room in the world for all of that, and most of it, they can't hire a full-time person to watch a person full-time.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Right, and most of it isn't necessary.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Right. So, all right, anyway, let's let's dive back into this. Oh, right, the case. Yeah, the case, yeah. So when officers Cope and Finlison arrived with their camera crew, the twins were standing on the shoulder of the motorway, speaking with people speaking with the officers. Everyone appeared calm and everything seemed okay. Now the paramedics hadn't yet arrived, but by the look of things, the officers thought they wouldn't really be needed. Nobody appeared injured, the atmosphere was relaxed. So when officers Cope and Finlandson joined the others on the motorway, they began speaking with one of the highway agency officers to find out what was going on. The twins were a short distance away, standing next to one of the other highway agency officers. While the highway agency officer was still briefing police, suddenly and for no apparent reason, Ursula lunged forward, stepping into the motorway.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Again?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Again. And this is caught on camera.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

The death wish.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Seeing what she was about to do, the highway agency officer who was standing next to her tried to stop Ursula. He only managed to grab her jacket, which she slipped out of, and then she ran straight into the road directly into the side of a 40-ton truck as it passed. What the fuck? The truck ran straight over her. Oh Sabina then made her move, running out onto the motorway as well. She threw herself into the path of an oncoming car. She then she was hit and went straight over the front of the car, smashing the windshield, denting the hood and the roof before being flung up into the air and slamming down hard on the road. Oh. This all happened in like seconds. And it was all caught on camera.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 25:05

So as you can see, when I first saw this footage, I thought I was watching a movie.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Right. It sounds like a like an exorcism or like a possession movie where it's like, wow, these people are doing weird shit because there's demons in them or something.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah, it's fucked up. I was just I watched them like, yeah, it's bullshit. And I moved on.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

So both women laid motionless on the road, knocked unconscious by the impact, but still alive. Oh wow. The motorway was immediately shut down, and police went to work trying to render aid and waiting for those paramedics to arrive.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah, it's about time they got there.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Ursula then started screaming that she wanted the police, even though she was looking at a police officer who was kneeling over her.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Okay, are we uh week two brain injury vibes?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Oh, yeah, right. Like you just kind of makes me think of the last case.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah. She then became quite aggressive and started spitting at and clawing at Officer Finlayson.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Now paramedics arrived soon after, and they made their way to Ursula first and helped calm her down and bringing her under control.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Meanwhile.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

And so just to clarify, Ursula is the one who got run over.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

By the truck, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

By the truck, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Meanwhile, Officer Tracy Cope is with Sabina, who is laying down calmly, who was laying down calmly, until suddenly she became she began screaming out, quote, they're going to steal your organs, unquote.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Huh, yep. Okay. Hmm. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

I told you this is a weird one.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

This is really weird. Sabina then It seems, I mean, by their behavior, it seems like they're trying to be organ donors, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

You know. Maybe they were really excited about donating organs. Although a rough way to donate them, there's a lot of potential damage that could be done this way.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Right. You know, you can just like donate a kidney and you can like still live, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

You know, maybe they wanted to give up more.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

And you know what? So noble. So honorable. So noble.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

So Sabina then stood up, and Officer Cope was trying to kind of Stood up. Stood up, and Officer Cope was trying to calm her down and get her to lay back down. But as she's doing but as she's doing this, Sabina starts pulling away from Officer Cope before turning around and punching the officer in the face, knocking her to the ground.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

What the hell is going on?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Sabina then jumped over the central reservation and ran into oncoming traffic on the other side of the motorway.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

You're joking. You're joking.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

I am not. Oh, what the f this time she was lucky not to have been hit by a passing vehicle.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

She might not have considered herself lucky.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

I think I agree with you. And Officer Finn Layson gave her, gave chase to her. As drivers saw.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Where's the bags right now? Just a question.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Honestly, there's no more information about these bags, so I don't really know what was in them.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Damn it. Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I realized that because the bus driver made such a big deal out of them, it seemed like they were going to be important, but they're not.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Okay. All right. Well, that was a real uh red herring in the story.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, it's a very good red herring.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I've been thinking about does she still have the bag? What's in the bag? Is she gonna take it out?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Nope, nope. The bags, I believe, are probably on the side of the road somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

All right, well.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Maybe even still to this day. They're still there.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

We can go to the UK.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That'd be so funny. Almost 20 years later. Oh man. Well, as drivers saw what was going on, they slowed down to a stop. And Officer Finlayson tried to grab hold of Sabina, who removed her jacket and started jumping up and down like she was shaping up, like getting herself motivated to get into a fight.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Oh my goodness gracious.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Officer Cope, along with other police who had arrived on the scene and members of the public, had to assist in bringing Sabina under control.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Goodness. What is going on? These like 40-year-old women fighting cops, running into the street.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

It took six people to get Sabina down and get her to stop putting up a fight. She was later described.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

I got a lot of theories.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

She was later described as having inhuman strength.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Fucking crazy. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Who are these bitches?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Well, like her sister Ursula, Sabina started calling out for the police, despite the fact that they're surrounded by officers. She was eventually restrained, and she continued to aggressively lash out, making it impossible for paramedics to treat her.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Sedate her. Yeah, that tracks.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

None of the first responders or bystanders could understand what was going on. The twins' behavior was unlike anything the police had ever seen or encountered before.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yeah, it's real fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Now they suspected that both sisters were likely under the influence of some kind of narcotic, which is what you've been saying for the whole time, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

It was also speculated that maybe the girls, the women, had a their actions were because they had some sort of suicide pact that they had made.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Mm-hmm. Weird way to do it. Fuck yes! Oh, I was so sad you didn't have notes about the bags, but now you do?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

A search of their bags found multiple cell phones and one of their passports. But that was pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

You know, I don't know why they were trying to hide that so bad. It's not that weird to have a couple cell phones.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, weird. So both twins were transported to the hospital. Ursula was in critical condition, but Sabina had only suffered minor injuries. Amazingly.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Getting thrown by a car. I'm completely blown away by that.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, the way you described it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah. So due to Ursula's severe condition, doctors took her blood for testing. It came back negative for drugs and alcohol. Yeah. So and there was also no drugs found on their persons, in their bags, or in any of Sabrina's belongings as well. Sabina's.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Now Sabina's blood wasn't tested. As she had only suffered minor injuries and she wasn't facing any serious criminal charges, which, I'm sorry, she punched a cop.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Right? What is this country?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Right, this is the UK. Here, she'd have been fucked. That's a felony.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

So, yeah, no idea. So it is presumed, however, that if Ursula hadn't taken anything, then likely Sabina hadn't either.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Fair. If they had like equally bizarre behavior.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Again, it's all so strange. None of it makes sense. No. Now Sabina did not undergo any kind of psychiatric evaluation. She was only seen by a police doctor, a psych doctor, and a social worker. Well, you said the psych doctor, so Yeah, but that's not like a sorry, I should say it wasn't a full psychiatric evaluation.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Doctor, they were just like checking in.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Correct. All three of them found that there was nothing wrong with Sabina.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah, I feel like here, if you had run into traffic intentionally twice, um Yeah, you'd be locked up. You would be on an involuntary psych hold. Yeah, for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Well, once she was given a clean bill of health, Sabina was discharged from the hospital just five hours after everything went down.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Not taken to the station for, I don't know, like endangering everyone on the motorway.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Well, once she was released from the hospital, police took her into their custody.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Ah, okay. All right, I'm getting ahead of myself.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I did that to you on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Well, thanks for sending me that.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

You're welcome. Oh, man. There was one that last recording I did with Tori. At one point she says to me, She goes, I can hear the fucking smile on your face right now.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yep, yep, and I can, yep, I can too.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

It's so fun. So the screaming person who had thrown herself in front of traffic and fought officers was no longer there. Sabina was now completely relaxed. She was compliant, and police didn't even bother to handcuff her as they took her to the station.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

After she punched a cop.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah. Here she would have been fucked. If she had survived that, like they what the police would have done to her after getting punched.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Right. If you punch a cop girl, you're getting shot.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

So Sabina.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

What a country.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Right. We're no, I'm not gonna comment on that.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, I mean, it's just it's it's kind of insane that I'm like, I can't believe they didn't murder her for punching someone. Like, that's actually what's fucked up. Yes. Um, that I'm like, oh my god, it's you didn't get states like unsanctioned murdered on the streets? That's crazy. Wow, the propaganda. The propaganda, I say.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I'm telling you, it's it affects us more than we realize. You're right. Because they've made they've normalized it here.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Right. Right. It's like almost like I'm like, what do you mean you were treated with due process? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Do you mean you weren't called a terrorist? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Right? I mean, I still think they maybe should have. I don't know. Well, let's see what they do. Let's see what they do.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

So Sabina sat quietly in the backseat of the car, unrestrained, and at the police station, she even laughed and joked with the officers as they were processing her.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

They asked her a series of questions as to her, you know, during part of her processing, including questions about her history and her health. When they asked if she had ever tried to harm herself before, she said she had not. Sabina had no previous criminal history, and at no point during her questioning did she ask how her sister Ursula was doing.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Oh, weird.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Now, police charge Sabina with trespassing on the motorway and assaulting a police officer. She was kept in custody and appeared at the Fenton Magistrates Court two days later on November 19th, 2008. She pled guilty to both charges. Knowing the U.S. and what those charges would have looked like. Do you want to take a guess at what she was sentenced to?

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Community service.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

She was sentenced to one day in custody.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Oh, so time served.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

When yeah, exactly. Which she'd already done. So she was released. One day.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

I mean, it's wild that assaulting anyone has so few consequences, but like when you assault a police officer, yeah. I mean, I just think how much do I care that it's a police officer? Just assaulting anyone.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

And you get a day in jail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

You get a day in jail. Not that I think like I don't know. I think community service would have been honestly a more appropriate because it's like you you punch someone, you better go serve the world because you're not doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Make or clean a stretch of that highway.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yes, exactly. Like you you punched someone who was trying to help you.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

And you damage somebody's car.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Also, also that.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

No fine. You don't know you have to fix their car.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Not not according to the research. Not according to the research I have.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

During her time in custody, Sabina seemed very calm. And she was released and casual about the whole situation she now found herself in. To her, it was like nothing had happened.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Now my sister's in critical condition, NBD.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Hashtag.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Hashtag vibing. Hashtag chilling. Hashtag UKVacation.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Hashtag M6 shenanigans.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Alright. So that same evening, 54-year-old Glenn Hollinshead was walking home with his friend Peter Malloy and Glenn's dog. Now the two men had just been at a at their local pub for a few beers and were strolling along Christchurch Street in the town of Fenton, which is part of Stoke on Trent.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

You know, typical British activities. And this public place is the pub.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

And just around the cor and this place is just around the corner from the magistrate's court. As they walked, they noticed Sabina Erickson standing on the other side of the road. This woman stook out, you know, massively. She obviously didn't belong there, and she appeared stressed and worried. And she was carrying all her possessions in a plastic bag, and she looked like she was lost. Sabina called out to the two men, saying that Glenn's dog looked nice. In response, Glenn and Peter crossed the road and struck up a conversation with Sabina. The trio chatted for a little while, and Sabina told the men that her sister was in the hospital and she was trying to find her way there. But she said she also needed to find a place to sleep, like a bed and breakfast, because she had nowhere to stay. Now, Glenn explained that there was really no hotels or B and Bs in that area, but he did offer to let her stay at his place.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

What a nice person.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

And it's funny because it's one of my next notes that he this is in keeping with his character. Everyone who knew Glenn said that he was just this kind of guy. We are on a murder podcast, Joyus.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

I was waiting for this to drop. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yep. He also offered to make her something to eat and help her try to locate her sister before helping her organize any other accommodations that she might need. Now again, as I just said, friends and loved ones described him as a warm and friendly person who always helped out people in need. And Sabina accepted his offer, and her mood appeared to improve. So the three walked back to Glenn's house, where they sat down for a little while together and had a few drinks. And whenever Glenn and Peter asked about Sabina's sister, they watched as her demeanor changed. They she would kind of try to change the some subject, or everything would just be an awkward silence.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Weird.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Sabina also started to display some other strange behavior. In the middle of a conversation, she would suddenly stand up, walk over to the window, pull the shades up, and stare up and down the street before suddenly snapping the shades back in place and sitting down again.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

That is deeply weird behavior.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

She did this a few times, and it was as though she was paranoid that someone might be watching her. She even took she even took out cigarettes and offered some to Glenn and Peter. And they both accepted, but as they were about to light the cigarettes, she quickly snatched them back, saying, They might be poisoned, you can't have them.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Uh girl.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

So Peter was starting to feel really uneasy. And he couldn't quite put his finger on what was wrong with Sabina. But Glenn, on the other hand, was super relaxed and comfortable and entirely unconcerned. He kept telling Peter not to worry, reassuring him that Sabina was just a bit quirky and that her behavior was nothing to be concerned about.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Right, I guess he could think like she's in shock.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Right, her sister is in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

I can sort of see it, but to me, I've been like at least a couple sc scrapes and bruises from being hit by a car.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

One would assume, yeah. So Peter couldn't wait to leave. He wasn't so reassured. And as soon as he could, he left and left Glenn alone with Sabina.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Well, I wouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah, I wouldn't either. That's really an odd thing. I definitely would not have left him alone. But here we are. Now one of the most intriguing things about this is that despite being run over by a car, flung into the air, and slamming on the road just two days before, Sabina did not make any complaints about being in pain.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Weird.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yes. She seemed completely unaffected. And around lunchtime the next day, Glenn called his brother Paul, who worked at a local hospital to see if he knew anything about Ursula. Glenn was his usual cheerful self throughout that call, according to his brother. Now, occasionally his brother Paul could hear Sabina's voice in the background, and Glenn explained to him what had happened and said that if there was any information at all about Ursula's status to let him know. At about 7 40 PM that evening, Glenn walked outside and asked a neighbor if he had any spare tea bags. Obviously he's thinking of making tea. For everybody, right? Completely British thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Very British.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Now Frank was washing his car and told Glenn that when he finished his car up, he would go inside and get him some tea bags. Glenn thanked him and went back into his house. Roughly one minute later, Glenn came staggering back outside. He was bleeding and had four separate stab wounds. Oh my god. One of those stab wounds hit him in the heart.

unknown 44:34

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Glenn called out, I've been stabbed. She stabbed me, and then he collapsed to the ground. Frank immediately dialed the emergency services, and Glenn asked Frank to look after his dog before he passed away.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Oh, that's so sad.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Meanwhile, Sabina left left Glenn's house and began running up the street carrying a hammer. She What the fuck? She repeatedly hit herself over the head with the hammer as she ran.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

What is going on?

SPEAKER_01 45:15

This caught the attention of a passing motorist named Joshua who saw what she was doing as he noticed that her hair was completely matted with blood. There was also blood all over the front of Sabina's jacket. Now Josh Joshua got out of his car and tried to wrestle the hammer from Sabina. And she struggled with him and appeared to be in a good Samaritan. That's great. That's I'm sorry. You want to hit yourself running down the street? That's all you. Fuck that. I'm not getting involved.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

Right. I mean, I'm scared I'm gonna get hurt, but good on this guy.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

She struggled with him and appeared to be in an outright rage. And she eventually got the better of Josh because she was hitting him in the back of the head with a piece of roof tile that she found that she took out of her pocket.

unknown 46:08

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

These girls and their bags in their pockets, what is going on?

SPEAKER_01 46:16

She then continued to take off running. So Joshua saw two paramedic vehicles driving by and he flagged them down. Now Sabina kept running. She kept trying to get away from the paramedics, and she ran to a bridge at Heron Crossing above the A50 roadway. Sabina climbed the railing and jumped straight off to the road below. This is roughly 10 meters or 30 feet. Ooh. She hit the ground, breaking both of her ankles and fracturing her skull, but she survived. Fucking nuts. Like not human.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

No. And amazing she didn't get hit by a car in the process.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Right? You'd think you'd have timed it better, just saying.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Right? Well, you know, you would think you would think. Yeah. This is not a person who's thinking.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

She was just hitting herself with a hammer.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't say she's necessarily in her right mind, but I guess that's up to debate.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Right. So she was transported to the hospital for treatment while points while police examined the crime scene at Glenn's house. It looked as though Glenn had been in the process of preparing a meal when he was stabbed. Sabina's DNA was found on one of the kitchen knives, and her bloodstained jacket that she was wearing at the time that she jumped off the bridge tested positive for Glenn Hollandhead's DNA. Sabina remained in the hospital for almost four months and was discharged in a wheelchair on Thursday, September 11th, 2008. Upon her release Four months.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Okay, so she got real fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah, breaking both ankles, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Yeah, that's that's rough.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

No, thank you. Upon her release from the hospital, she was charged with the murder of Glenn Hollinshead and taken into police custody. Now Ursula was also discharged from the hospital in September, but she wasn't charged with any offenses and returned to Sweden.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

What? I mean, she I guess all she did was run into traffic. She didn't even assault a cop, so.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

No, she was hit by a pretty big truck, so she probably didn't even cause damage to the truck.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Yeah. Now Sabina refused to answer any questions at all. Her reply to anything that was asked of her was simply no comment. Wow. So we have no idea exactly what happened in Glenn's house that day, or even the night before, after his friend Peter had left, that is. Sabina initially pled not guilty to murder, and a trial date was set for February of 2009. Now it was postponed due to issues obtaining her medical records. So her trial had to be rescheduled, and she went on trial that following September. So now she's been in prison for a year. Prior to her trial, Sabina was obsessed by two forensic psychiatrists, one acting for the defense and the other for the prosecution. And both reached the same conclusion that at the time she had a psychotic break. That at the time that she killed Glenn, she was mentally ill.

unknown 49:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Well, yeah, of course she was fucking mentally ill. She killed someone.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Right. However, the psychiatrist had different opinions as to what this mental illness was. Now the defense, they argued that it was induced delusional disorder, a rare condition where similar delusional beliefs are shared by two or more people that share a close relationship.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

I can I've never heard of that one.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

And that's generally where the term folia do comes from.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

So gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Now, in Sabina's case, the condition would relate to her relationship with her sister, obviously. But after her sister ran out into the motorway into the path of the truck, Sabina did follow her. So this is their argument here. Now the prosecution diagnosed Sabina with acute polymorphic psychotic disorder.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Also haven't heard of that one. They got the spicy diagnoses today.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

A type of acute transient psychosis characterized by rapidly shifting psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations and paranoia. Now, the prosecution's hypothesis was that Sabina had abruptly become psychotic for a short period of time before the symptoms disappeared. To me, that sounds like bullshit. Because that's everyone who's ever lost their shit for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

Right. That's like that is what a psychotic break is.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Right. So why all the flower flowery words? Doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Right. And it's like, why does it matter if it then went away or clearly a dangerous person?

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Exactly. Because we don't know when you're going to do it again. Clearly.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

And they called both of these diagnoses rare conditions. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

I mean, yeah, I've never heard of them, so they gotta be rare.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Well, video of the incident on the motorway was used in making each of these diagnoses, and the footage was later played in court. Now, Glenn's family wanted to know why Sabina was released from the hospital so quickly and allowed to go free after the motorway incident, especially if she was determined now to be suffering from a psychotic episode. Right. Prior to Sabina's release from the hospital after that incident, she had been seen by a police surgeon, a consultant psychiatrist, and a social worker, and all three said that she didn't display any obvious signs of mental or psychological illness.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

But the foot I think running into traffic is an obvious symptom, but but that's just me.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Well, and that's what their argument is. Like, why didn't anyone pick up on this shit? Why, like you said, a 72-hour hold at a minimum.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

A couple of explanations that people put forward have been kind of thrown out there for people to listen. Or whatever, theories. If Sabina was in fact suffering from acute polymorphic psychotic disorder, then her symptoms could come and go quickly and may have been momentarily absent when she was being reviewed by those three individuals. Which again, all of that sounds awfully convenient to me, regardless.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Yeah, and also like it's one of those things where I'm like, yes, and exactly. So you should up and she's good at concealing it.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Right. And another theory that someone put out there was that the sedation, the sedative she was given on the motorway to calm her down, may have like allowed her to calm down enough that by the time she was assessed by these doctors, they thought she was okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Which is probably more likely the case.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah, I mean that makes sense, but it's also still that's like you would you that was a suicide attempt.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

There's no you usually get mandatory hold for that.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

You don't get to just say, oh, you seem fine, chap. Move along.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Right, right. Either way, uh the although the psychiatrist hired by both the prosecution and the defense found that Sabina had been experiencing mental illness at the time that she stabbed Glenn Holland's head, neither of them had ex had assessed her twin sister Ursula.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

So we no one has seems important to the diagnosis, especially the first one. Right. That the defense is talking about with the induced delusional disorder.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Right. And if maybe she had been assessed, they would have been able to learn more about what was going on. Like, we have no idea. They let her return to Sweden.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

So the findings of these two psychiatrists led Sabina into pleading guilty to a lesser charge of manslaughter with diminished responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Are you fucking joking?

SPEAKER_01 54:56

With diminished responsibility. I am not kidding.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Fuck her.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Yes, agreed. She killed a guy who was just trying to help her.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Literally being so nice.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

It's crazy. He was literally making her fucking dinner a day later.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Although a judge had difficulty determining which diagnosis was the correct one, he accepted that Sabina had suffered from some sort of sort of rare and temporary form of insanity, and he allowed her plea to be accepted.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

I fucking hate that.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

As Sabina has since made a full recovery from her mental illness, she couldn't be detained at a secure mental health hospital. What? Neither the prosecution nor defense believed she posed any further danger to the public.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

That's crazy. That's actually insane. How do you know that something that happens randomly is gone?

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Exactly. She should never be let out.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

So the judge was prompted to give her five years in prison.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Are you joking?

SPEAKER_01 56:15

No. I wish I was. Because she had already spent four hundred nine days in custody prior to this sentencing, she became eligible for parole in 2011.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

I can only imagine how awful that is for this guy's family.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I I would be fucking furious. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

I would also be furious if this is a person who was released and then lived in my neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Oh yeah. If it was I'm not gonna say that if someone like this was released in my neighborhood, I'd make sure they disappeared, but they might. Just saying.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

It's just like it's insane that like from a public safety standpoint. This is exactly the kind of shit we talk about when we talk about reoffenders.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Um it's just nuts. Yep. Like uh There's no I don't get mental like mental illness is an explanation. It's not an excuse.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Yeah, you still have to pay the price. And and even if you don't pay the price, you still have to be the public has to be protected from you.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Right. I feel like those are the the two prongs on like crime and punishment here are you have to you have to pay the dues for what you've done, and also like you're a public safety risk. The peep the public deserves to be protected from you. Even if it's found that, oh, you're insane, you shouldn't be punished for being insane, sure, whatever, but the public is still in danger.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

And yet you're still capable of doing these things.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

And yet they're saying she's no longer a danger, despite their own diagnosis that this could happen at any time. Especially because they don't even know what triggered it.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

You know, did it happen because she was with her sister?

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Then why and is she being kept from her sister?

SPEAKER_01 58:07

This is crazy, yeah. But hold on, we'll get into that in a little bit. In delivering this sentence, the judge stated, quote, I understand this sentence will seem entirely inadequate to the relatives of the deceased. However, I have sentenced on the basis that the reason for the killing was the mental illness, and therefore the culpability of the defendant was low, and therefore the sentence I have passed is design di is designed to protect the public. It is not designed to reflect the grief of the relatives and what they've suffered, or to measure the value of Glenn Hollandhead's life. No sentence I could pass could do that. Unquote.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

There's certainly a lot of sentences he could pass that would get closer.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Agreed. It's bullshit. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

That's such a load of shit.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Yep. Well, Glenn's family considered Sabina's diagnosis to be a convenient explanation, which is what I've been saying the whole time. They felt it was a quick and easy way to deal with an event that was so bizarre that no one had any idea what was really going on.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Right. It feels underinvestigated as well.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Yeah. Now Glenn's brother Gary had spoken out against the way the case was handled, stating that he doesn't blame Sabina for her actions, but he does hold the justice system responsible for their part. He has also he has also paid tribute to his brother's kind and generous nature. Quote, her mental condition should have been properly assessed after what she did on the motorway and the experiences the police had. Her mental disorder should have been picked up prior to her being let out into the community. Glenn saw her in distress and was just trying to help. He wasn't slow in coming forward to help somebody in distress. It was in his nature. He was trying to help. He would help anybody. If he saw a fight in the street and a guy was losing, he would help. Unquote. It's always the good ones. I was gonna say it's always the good ones. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Always is. This one particularly. He was literally going out of his way for the person who killed him.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Yep. Now during the court process, Sabina maintained her silence. She didn't utter, she didn't utter a single word about the murder or the M6 incident. No one, to this day, no one knows what the twins were doing in England in the first place. That's crazy. They never gave anyone any reasons. And like her sister Ursula, Sabina returned to Sweden after completing her sentence. Insane. And literally, just as there isn't anything known about their history prior to these events, we know nothing about them after their departure.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

You know what? At least that means that hopefully they haven't killed anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Hopefully. Or maybe they finally committed their completed their suicide pact or whatever the fuck was going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

But either way, whatever the fuck that was.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

These women could still be out there. They probably are still out there. Yeah. They'd only be 60 now. And that is the case of the Ericsson twins.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Man, that was such a fun case until it became really awful.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Your moment of realization was so crazy. Because you suddenly realized this wasn't just about weird behavior.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

I know. I was like, I I genuinely thought it would end in like one sister killing the other sister, or like, yes, it was like a weird case where you're messing with me and no one actually died. It was just a fun story.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Nope. I had to respond.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Or it was a fumble. Or it was a fumble where they like tried to kill someone where they were trying to kill people by like trying to mess up their cars. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

No, no, I hear you, but unfortunately, there is an actual victim in this case.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

So maybe rest in peace. What a sweet guy. What a yeah, what a representation of the goodness of people and the goodness of strangers sometimes. I think it's a beautiful thing to still believe in.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

In a weird way, though, for him, that was a good way to go. He went because he was helping somebody. And she was in need. Her needs were just like.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

He was still doing something wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Yeah. So.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

If there's an afterlife, I'm sure he'll be rewarded for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

Agreed. Agreed. He certainly would be. So yeah. So thank you everyone for joining us. Once again, I'm Janice Dead. And I'm Joyce Dead. And we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Bye.