Episode 88 - REVISITED: The BTK Killer Dennis Rader.

 Janus and Madster revisit the case of Dennis Rader AKA The BTK Killer.  We felt that our original episode wasn't us at our best and decided that we needed to educate Madster about this crazy person.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Unsung Murder Ballads is a true crime podcast, and as such, we will be discussing topics that are disturbing, graphic, and often violent in nature. So this is not for children under the age of 13.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

But you know this because you did start playing this episode. So here are some things you might not know about us.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

We are going to be critical of mistakes made by both criminals and law enforcement.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

We're going to express our views on things that you might not always agree with.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

We will occasionally go on an off-topic tangent.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

And we're going to use dark humor to express ourselves now and then.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

So if you're easily triggered, this might not be the podcast for you.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

However, if this is your cup of tea, then raise your pinky finger while you sip and join us for this week's horrific case, you sick bastards.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

This is episode 88 Revisited. I am Janice Dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

And I'm Madsters.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Welcome back, Madster. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I'm doing pretty well today. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I'm doing great. So to explain to our listeners, I almost said guests, like it's a restaurant. Um to explain to our listeners why we're redoing an episode as late as episode 88. That one we had a guest co-host that just no offense against him. We felt that he kind of helped helped keep that episode from being really good. So we've decided to re-record that episode because I truly feel like this particular serial killer deserved a better presentation. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah. Kind of sounds a little creepy that you say that he deserves something better, but I mean it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

It's not, yeah, you're right. He doesn't deserve it. Fuck that guy. But I would say maybe his victims deserved better.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Yeah, yeah, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Okay, good. So I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked Joyus when we first were about to start recording this. This guy is known as the BTK killer. What do you think BTK stands for?

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Um Behind the Killer.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Behind the what?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Behind the killer? BTK? Behind the killer. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Um that's a better answer than Joyus gave. She went with big titty kids or something.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

That's silly.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

But that does that right there shows the tone that our other guest host that night kind of created. It was a very silly moment. So yeah. So it stands for bind, torture, kill.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Oh, that's deep. That's dark. Yeah, really dark.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Well, I mean, we do we do discuss murders here. Don't forget that. Alright, so we're just gonna dive right in. There's not gonna be a teaser or anything like that because we don't I don't really want to ruin any part of this. This this is let's just dive in. Okay. So Dennis Lynn Rader was born on March 9th, 1945, in Pittsburgh, Kansas, but he grew up in Wichita. He was the eldest of four sons, and he enjoyed a seemingly normal childhood. Keyword seemingly. Both his parents worked long hours and paid little attention to their children at home. And Rader later described feeling ignored by his mother in particular and resenting her for it. All you parents out there that think your children don't need more attention, I'm gonna argue they need some attention.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah, they definitely do. Otherwise, they start acting out.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, did you hear about this is slightly off topic, but uh, one of Tom Hanks's is writing a book that's talking about what life was really like growing up in their house.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Oh, it's got I did not hear that.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, it sounds like it's gonna be one of those tell all revealing kind of things, so that'll be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

That would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Especially because there's now rumors that Tom Hanks is in the Epstein files, which would be really, really disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, yeah. It's I've been digging deeper into that. There's a whole thing, but we'll talk about that later because this is not what we're talking about here tonight. All right. So at a young age, Raider harbored sadistic sexual fantasies about torturing trapped and helpless women. Wow. He also exhibited zoo sadism by torturing, killing, and hanging small animals.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Oh, isn't that like the first sign of like the martyring?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

The McDonald's triad. Torturing animals, setting fires, and wetting the bed. Yes. So Rader would act out sexual fetishes for voyeurism, auto-erotic asphyxiation, and cross dressing. Now keep in mind this is the what I think the 50s at this point. So 50s and early 60s, so this is not as common as it is today.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

And it's killers like this that actually did not help the trans community later. So he often spied on female neighbors while dressed in women's clothing, including women's underwear that he had stolen. And he masturbated with ropes and other bindings around his arms and neck.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah. And keep in mind, this is what he's gonna tell us later. Years later, during his like cooling off periods between murders, Raider would take pictures of himself wearing women's clothing and wearing a female mask while he was bound.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

He later so strange.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

It's definitely unusual, yes. And he later admitted that he was pretending to be his own victims as part of a sexual fantasy that he had.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Again, some people, I I mean, I I don't even know how to explain it. It's some people are just fucked. He did keep these sexual proclivities well hidden. And by the community at large, he was widely regarded as normal, polite, and well-mannered. After graduating from Wichita Heights High School, Rader attended Wichita Wellesley Ann University. He received only mediocre grades and dropped out a year later. Rader would then serve in the U.S. Air Force from 1966 to 1970. In 1971, he married a woman named Paula Deets, and the couple would have two children together, a son named Brian that was born in 1975, and a daughter named Carrie, who was born in 1978. Now we're going to jump ahead a little bit here, but Brian, his son, stayed out of the public eye after all the events that we're going to discuss happened. He basically kept a low profile. His daughter Carrie, however, wrote a book in 2019 titled A Serial Killer's Daughter: My Story of Hope, Love, and Overcoming.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

It's really cool how she took this and turned it into something that was both entertaining for the world, I suppose, informative and stuff, but it also kind of helped her overcome it all, which is pretty cool. Because she even says in interviews that she has a hard time thinking about her father as the serial killer when she only had good memories of their time together when she was a child. So it's really fucked. It's kind of cool. I'm going to just kind of go through some of his history here before we get to his killings. So we're going to skip around a little bit. So I apologize for that, but I just want to get the mundane stuff out of the way before we really dig into the meat and potatoes of this. So Rader attended Butler County Community College in El Dorado, earning an associate's degree in electronic engineering technology in 1973. And then he went and enrolled at Wichita State University, graduating in 1979 with a Bachelor's of Science degree, majoring in administration of justice. Basically, this guy is teaching himself how to work with electronics and how the justice system works.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

I'm thinking of what he's trying to plan out, and I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, we're we're about to talk about one of the jobs he takes on because he started to work for a Wichita-based office for ADT security services. So an alarm company.

unknown 8:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Oh, this is not going to go well.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah. So from 74 until 1988, he is the one out there installing security alarms as part of his job. And in many cases, the people buying these security systems from him were doing so because they were afraid of the BTK killer.

unknown 9:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah. So not only is he setting up the security systems, now he also knows how to bypass them. He knows who has them. It's a whole fucked up thing. He knows everything about these security systems.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

This is insane.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yes, it is. So again, continuing to jump forward with his career, Rader was also a census field operations supervisor for Wichita in 1989 before they did their 1990 census, which means that part of his job was to walk around the city asking people questions about census data. How many people live in your home, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Oh, he has too much information.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yes, he does. Again, it all seems really coordinated. And then in May of 1991, he became a dog catcher and a compliance officer for Park City, Kansas, which means he's out there catching dogs, which would be the one deterrent for a household for him. And as a compliance officer, he's the one who walks around and says, Hey, your lawn is too tall. Here's a ticket. Cut it, like that sort of thing. Or shovel your walkway. Here's a ticket. You know, he's that guy. Now, and then, as I just said, in that position, neighbors recalled him as being overzealous and extremely strict, taking pleasure in bullying and harassing single women in particular. One neighbor complained that Rader killed her dog for seemingly no reason.

unknown 11:00

What?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah. Now, Rader was a member of the Christ Lutheran Church in Wichita. And at some point he was elected president of the church council. And he was also a Cub Scout leader.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

This guy has a lot of like life going on. He's doing so much.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, he's got a lot of hats on. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

So Rader's first known murderers were particularly gruesome. On January 15th, 1974, Rader murdered four members of the Otero family. There was husband and father Joseph, who was 38 years old, his wife Julie, who was 33, and two of their children. There was Josephine, who was 11, and Joseph Jr., who was nine. Rader claimed he first targeted this family two months prior to their murders because he spotted Julie leaving to take her children to school and he decided to follow them. On the morning of February 15th, Rader cut the phone lines and he entered the Otero residence when Joey, the son, opened the back door for the family dog to be let out.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Now Rader entered the house, I'm assuming brandishing a weapon, and he told them that he was a wanted man in California before he ordered them to lie down on the living room floor at gunpoint. So yeah, he has a gun. Wow. He then led the family into the bedroom and tied them up with rope that he had prepared ahead of time.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Oh, this guy had it planned out.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

This one was probably his most well planned out one, yes. You're gonna see that. He's meticulous that way. So Joseph and Joey were on the floor while Julie and Josie, Josephine, the nine-year-old, were on the bed. The wrists and the feet of Joseph and Julie were tied up, and then Rader put a plastic bag over Joseph's head, which he then secured with ropes. But after he did that, Joseph started to chew a hole in the bag so that he could breathe. And Rader had to put another bag over that and tighten that up as well, causing Joseph to slowly suffocate to death.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

That's sad.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

In front of his whole family.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

That's a brutal way to die, too.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Um, I'm sure it's not comfortable, but at least I don't know. I think it would be less painful than a lot of other ways. Just you know, may maybe, maybe not. I mean, you're obviously aware of it, so there's panic, but I don't know. I think it'd be better than fire and drowning, but I don't know. I mean, I've never obviously I've never died.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I feel like anything is better than fire or drowning, though. Those are two brutal ones.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, I agree. Now, Rader then attempted to strangle Julie, and according to Rader, after he thought she was dead, she woke back up. And when she realized what was still going on, she became really upset and asked him to save her son. And he had already put a bag over Joey Jr.'s head. So he actually took the bag off.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

But he was already But he was already dead.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

But he was already dead. She then screamed, You killed my boy, you killed my boy, and she actually said to him, May God have mercy on your soul. Wow. Rader then strangled her to death with a rope. Rader then led Josephine down into the basement. There, he hung her from a noose on a pipe.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Oh, that's awful.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Police later found Rader's semen near her partially clothed body. And Rader would later admit that he derived sexual pleasure from her death.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

That's fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Absolutely. It's gross regardless, but to a nine-year-old, that's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

That's fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Now, strangulation and souvenir taking would become part of Raider's criminal behavior. He he would always keep some kind of keepsake, and strangulation was a big part of it. Later that day, the Otero's 15-year-old son Charlie came home from school and discovered their bodies.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Oh, he saw everything. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Now he had been at school the whole time, but it would not be until 2005 when Raider finally confessed to killing the Otero family.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Oh, so for years they didn't know who did it.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

From 1974 until 2005, they had no idea who actually killed the Otero family. Wow. Fucking crazy. It wouldn't be long before Rader struck again. And jumping from January until April 4th, 1974, Rader broke into a Wichita home of a 21-year-old woman named Catherine Bright through her screen door. Now he had been scoping her out, right? He thought she lived alone. So when he went in, he was kind of stunned to see her 19-year-old brother Kevin also there on the property. So again, he's got a gun, he's keeping him there, and he takes Catherine into a bedroom and he ties her down, forcing Kevin at gunpoint to restrain his sister with a rope that he had provided.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Oh, this is awful.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Rader attempted to strangle Catherine to death before stabbing her three times in the back and lower abdomen.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Oh my.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And he would later say that he used the knife because she struggled too much. Wow. He also strangled Kevin and shot him in the back of the head. But Kevin survived by playing dead and would later escape. Yeah. After the shot, it didn't kill him, so it must have missed or just grazed him, but he was smart enough to just lay there.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

So he survived.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Kevin survived, yes. And he later described Rader as an average-looking guy with a bushy mustache and psychotic eyes. Which okay, I don't know. I mean, it sounds like you're looking for a cartoon character.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

In October of 1974, Rader placed a letter in a public library book in which he took responsibility for the killings of the Ortero family. This poorly written note gave authorities some idea of who they were actually dealing with. And a local newspaper began covering the story of the letter that was left in the library. Now, in the letter, he wrote that it was hard to control himself, and he said, You should probably call me psychotic with sexual perversion hang ups. That's a fuck. Yep. And he warned them that he would strike again, and noting, quote, the code words for me will be bind them, torture them, kill them, BTK. Unquote.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Wow. And gave himself his own nickname.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

He did, and we all agree that's bullshit. You shouldn't be allowed to name yourself.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Yeah, I agree. You gotta get someone else has to give you your nickname. I didn't just, you know, get madsters. I come up with that myself. He gave me that.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

So in August of 2023, the Associated Press reported that Rader was considered the prime suspect in two further killings in Oklahoma and Missouri. Authorities discovered possible trophies for victims after launching a search for evidence at his former Kansas home. And basically what they found was keepsakes or other things that led them to believe he may have killed these other people. There was 16-year-old Cynthia Dawn Kinney who was last seen in Osage, Oklahoma in June of 1976 at a laundromat. Witnesses said that she left the laundromat at 9 30 a.m. and got into a faded beige 1965 Plymouth Belvidere. In 2023, Osage Sheriff Eddie Verden claimed that Rader was identified as the prime suspect after it was determined that he was involved with the Boy Scouts in that area. And additionally, it was discovered that Rader had written the phrase bad wash day in his journals the day Cynthia disappeared. And ABANC was also having a new ADT alarm system installed across the street from that laundromat when Cynthia went missing missing. And as we know, he was an installer for that alarm company. So basically, it seems like he took this girl out. However, Rader, after his eventual arrest, denied any involvement in that murder. The reason they think he won't take credit for that, because he's taking credit for all these other murders, is because Oklahoma has the death penalty, where Kansas at the time did not.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Oh, yeah, that would make sense why he's not claiming that murder.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yes. So it's likely he did, but he's never gonna say it because he doesn't want them to execute him. Which is weird, but what a while.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Is he still alive in prison now?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

He is, yes. He's probably gonna be dead soon, though. He's old as fuck.

unknown 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

I mean, he he was almost 30 when he committed his first murders, which was like five months before I was born. So there you go. He's old. Okay. He's old as fuck. His next murder occurs on March 17th, 1977. 25 year old Shirley Relford was found dead in her home in Wichita. Shirley had not been feeling well that day, and she sent her five year old son out to the store to buy some soap.

unknown 22:00

Soup.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

When that's crazy, you're sending your five-year-old son out to the store to buy soup.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

It's 1977. I'm sure it was right on the corner. At five years old, I don't think my parents were letting me run around. So there is that. But she's sick and he's five. You know, I don't know. It's it's a what the fuck question, yeah. Now her son's name was Steve. And Steve, on his way back from the store, was approached by a man on the street who showed him a picture of a woman and her young child, and he asked Steve if he knew who these people were. Now, obviously, this is Rader. And the picture he's showing this guy, this kid, is a picture of his own wife and kid. Now Steve's like, no, sir. And Rader's like, Are you sure? Look again. And Steve repeats his answer. And Rader pretends that he's gonna go to a neighbor's house as Steve goes home. But as soon as Steve enters the house, a few minutes later, Rader's knocking at the door. Now Steve opened it, and basically Rader forces himself in. And he immediately starts pulling the blinds, he turns off the TV, and he pulls out a gun. And this is when Steve's mother, Shirley, steps out. And Steve is, I mean, Rader's holding the gun. And everyone's just standing there kind of like, oh fuck. And then the telephone starts ringing. And little Steve is asking his mother if she wants him to answer it. And Rader's like, no, leave it alone. And the mother confirms it. She's like, do as he says, just leave it alone. Then of course Rader tells Shirley to start putting toys and blankets in the bathtub for Steve and his siblings. Because there's other kids in this house. So the mother does. And then Rader takes some rope and he ties the doors shut. Now, there are two doors in this bathroom. One opens out and one opens inward. So he's literally tying the rope to the doorknob and the pipes under the sink so they can't open the door one way. And then then the other door, he actually pushes a bed up against it, so he like this is the one that enters where the mother's bedroom is, so that the kids can't open the door. Rader traps them in there. He traps the kids in there. And Rader then begins to remove Shirley's clothing. Oh no. He binds her hands behind her back and he placed a plastic bag over her head and tied rope around her neck. Her son Steve, in a later interview, said that he was standing on the bathtub trying to peek over like an opening above the door to see what was happening to his mother. And of course, and his siblings are obviously hysterical. So at one point, Steve even yells out to Rader that he's gonna untie the rope under the sink. And Rader told him if he did that, he would quote, blow my fucking head off, unquote. Wow. So even though this woman has a bag over her head, she is pleading with the kids to stay in the bathroom. And the children obeyed, at least for a time. But as time passed, the children were growing more frightened. And finally one of them broke out the bathroom window in an effort to escape. Now, in a weird, weird thing here, there are differing reports. One report says the kids did go out the window. The other one says that the window was there to make Raider was opened or broken to make Raider think they had left, when in fact they were either hiding or gone out the door. But it's not clear which. Now, at this point, Raider had Shirley completely restrained and she vomited as he was tying her legs to the bedposts.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

He then stripped She still has the bag on her head?

SPEAKER_01 26:05

You know, it's funny because I it's it show it says that he put the plastic bag over her head, but it doesn't say that she vomited into the bag in my research, so I don't know. I'm gonna guess it this maybe he may have taken the bag off her head when she was telling the kids to calm down, and he may not have put it back. I don't know, it's unclear. And I've listened to other much more in-depth podcasts about this that do not re address this issue either. So I'm assuming he must have taken the bag off. But regardless, he then strangled her with a rope before placing another plastic bag over her head. Wow. So after having been in the house for 40 minutes, Rader left. And it was at this point that the kids either came out of hiding or came back into the house and found their mother on the bed dead. That's awful. Rader later said that if the kids hadn't fled the house, he would have killed them both too. Saying that he probably would have hung the little girl.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Oh, that's gross.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah, he sucks. So going back to what you said at the beginning, no, he didn't deserve a better presentation. His victims did. Yeah. Either way, Rader moved on to his next victim. He noticed 25-year-old Nancy Fox going into her home in Wichita and marked her as a potential victim and began stalking her. On December 8th, 1977, Rader knocked at her door. When nobody answered, he cut the phone lines before breaking in to wait for her in her kitchen. Nancy's murder would later be described as Raider as the perfect hit.

unknown 27:57

That's gross.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

He said, although she gave me a lot of verbal static, she cooperated and didn't fight. Fucking weirdo. Fucking weirdo. Fuck is verbal static. Oh, and arguing? Fuck. I just want to say, whenever you give me shit, I'm gonna be like, don't give me any verbal static. Stop calling me old, master, verbal static. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Maybe that's yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah, I do. And then you know what? I'm okay with it. You can think I'm old. So he said he had complete control over her, and that's why it was one of his more enjoyable kills, as he called it. Raider killed Nancy by strangling her with his belt on her bed. And before and before she died, he told her he was responsible for the Otero murders. Which I can which I can only imagine made her panic that much more at the end, which is what he wanted. Now, the following day, Rader called police from a telephone booth telling them where they could find Nancy's body in her home. Now, despite the cat and mouse game with authorities, Rader was reportedly an attentive husband and able to keep his secret, murderous life under wraps.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

Oh, that's right. This guy still has two kids.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah, at this point, I think he only has the one. I don't think his daughter's been born yet.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah. So it's at this point that he graduates from Wichita State University with his degree in administration of justice. And he continues to taunt authorities and appeared to be ready to strike again. On February 10th, 1978, Rader sent another letter to a television station called K-A-K-E in Wichita, and they call it Cake, right? That's the how they call it. I don't know. And he claimed responsibility for the murder of the Oteros, Catherine Bright, Shirley Relford, and Nancy Fox. And again, he suggested that they call him BTK. He demanded media attention in a second letter saying, How many do I have to kill before I get a name in the paper or some national attention?

SPEAKER_03 30:23

This guy's fucked.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yes, he is. Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Talk about attention, Haller.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

It's so bad. He wants to be famous so bad. He even wrote a poem that he included in the letter called O Death to Nancy, which was a fuck. Which was a parody of lyrics to an American folk song called O Death.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Now, I have heard the song O Death. It is weird, to say the least. So the fact that this guy chose it makes perfect sense. Now in the letter, he claimed he was driven by what he called an X Factor, and he characterized this as a supernatural element that also motivated Jack the Ripper, the Hillside Stranglers, and the Son of Sam. Two of the three we've already covered on this podcast. Now, obviously, son of Sam and the Hillside Stranglers came after his killing, so he doesn't say that until later. So he asked the police to send him a hidden message. And in response, and with the knowledge that Raider watched Cake News, police decided to try to flash a subliminal message during one of the radio stations' evening news broadcasts for a split second. Are you familiar with subliminal messages at all?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

So this was a trick they did in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I should say they were trying to do because it's not clear that it was very effective. And this is when like you'll have like ice cubes, there'll like be an ad for a drink. And in the ice cubes, they'll secretly put in the word, the letters S E X or something, and it's supposed to make you want the drink that much more. And they oh okay. Yeah, and they claim that like while you're watching a movie for like a split second, it'll cut to like uh someone naked, and it makes the scene the scene feel that much more like exciting to you.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

It's stupid. So what this what they did was they had an image flash for a split second that just said, call the chief. And it had a drawing of an upside-down pair of glasses, which were found at Nancy Fox's crime scene. So somehow so somehow police hoped that this message would influence Raider to turn himself in. But it was clearly unsuccessful because one, he may not have even been watching at that moment, and two, he doesn't turn himself in. Which is so stupid. You know, it's like bringing in a psychic. I don't understand it. During this time, Raider also intended to have killed others. One example was 63-year-old Anna Williams, who in 1979 escaped being killed by him because she returned home later than he thought she would. Wow. He said later during his confession that he became obsessed with Williams and was absolutely livid that she had evaded him. He literally spent hours in her home waiting for her to return, and he became impatient and left. But later he sent her a message that said, BTK was here, basically.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

That's fucking creepy. But good on her for coming home later than he expected.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Well, I mean, she had no idea, but can you imagine getting that letter later? That has scared the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

So, in an effort to catch him, authorities released a recording of a 1977 call he had made to police, hoping that someone might recognize his voice. Now, unfortunately, that goes nowhere. But Marnie Hedge, who is 53, was found on May 5th, 1985, at East 53rd Street. Basically, Raider had killed her a week earlier, on April 27th, and he took her body to the Christ Lutheran Church where he was president of the church council at the time. Literally murdered her and brought her to a church where he photographed her bodies in various bondage positions.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

What the actual fuck. He killed her and took her to a church is insane. And then photographing her in the church, and he's the president.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

That's even more insane.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yep. Now Rader previously stored black plastic sheets and other materials at the church in preparation for this, and he later dumped her body in a remote ditch.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, this guy's fucked. Two women Rader stalked in the 80s, and one of whom he stalked in the 90s filed restraining orders against him. Now keep in mind, people are afraid of BTK. So here he is trying to stalk people, but he's getting sloppy and people are noticing. Right. And one of those women even went so far as to change her address to avoid him, which is good on her.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yeah, she's smart.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

However, on September 16th, 1986, now keep in mind he's been doing this now for 14 years.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Wow. He's killed people for 14 years and still getting away with it.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, and they have no idea who he is.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

So September 16, 1986, Rader strangled 28-year-old Vicky Weggerl to death with a nylon stocking at her house in Wichita. Rader entered the residence by pretending to be a telephone repairman. He then rearranged her clothes post-mortem and took a number of photographs of her nude body. Now Rader's final victim. Yeah, he's fucked. I this guy, um, yeah, he he deserved. I really hope he had a shit time in prison. Raider's final victim, 62-year-old, 62-year-old Dolores Davis, was found dead on February 1st, 1991, in Park City, Kansas. Rader had killed her on January 19th, which was two weeks before, by strangling her with pantyhose. Now, this one's interesting because during this time, Raider was actually taking his son out for like one of those Cub Scout, whatever, I don't even know what they call them. Um, when they're out and they're camping, right? So he's literally out with his son camping, and he gets it in his head to leave the campsite, drive to Park City, Kansas, and murder a 62-year-old woman. And then he returns before anyone has any idea he's left.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

That's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

So over the next several years, BK BTK drops off the map as Raider focused on his work and family life. Now he had left ADT in the 80s and he started working for the Wichita suburb of Park City as a compliance officer. In this new position, he was known to be a stickler for the rules. He literally went out and measured people's lawns to see if they the grass was too tall and if he could ticket them.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

He's fucking crazy. That's so just like overdramatic.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

He's a dick. He literally chased stray animals around with a tranquilizer gun.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah, he he was a dick. And he was also a Boy Scout troop leader and the president of his church council. By the early 2000s, the public memory of the BTK killer and his murders began to fade. And local author Robert Beattie began writing a book about the killings after being shocked at how many young people that he spoke to had never heard of BTK. And hungry for attention, Raider suddenly re-emerges as BTK in 2004 after learning that a book was being written about him. I'm surprised he went that long without doing anything. That was almost 20 years that he went dormant.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

So yeah, by 2004, the investigation into the BTK killer was considered a cold case. And Rader then initiated a series of communications with local media. This activity would directly lead to his arrest in February of 2005. So in March of 2004, the Wichita Eagle received a letter from someone with the name Bill Thomas Killman, BTK.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

That's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

He wants it to be so bad.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

The author of the letter claimed that he had murdered Vicky Weggerall on September 16, 86, and he enclosed photographs of the crime scene as well as a as well as a photocopy of her driver's license, which had been missing at the time of the crime. Basically proving that he's actually the killer. And this basically confirmed that Waggerell was a victim of BTK. So DNA, well, that was collected from under her fingernails, provided police with previously unknown evidence. They now knew they had DNA of BTK. And they began testing it against hundreds of people because they're hoping that he's already in the system. They tested more than 1,300 DNA samples, and unfortunately, none of them were a match to anybody. Because BTK was not in the system. In May of 2004, Cake TV received a letter with chapters with chapter headings for the BTK story, as well as fake IDs and a word puzzle. What the fuck? At this point, he's trying to be like um the zodiac killer who used a cipher, like a coded cipher, and it had messages that it took investigators decades to break. He's trying to be like the zodiac.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

Yeah, he's just trying to come up with a bunch of fucking puzzles.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Yeah, he wants to be again, he wants to be famous. We know this. He named himself for fuck's sake.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

That's insane.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

On June 9th, a package was found taped to a stop sign on the corner of First and Kansas Roads in Wichita. It had graphic descriptions of the Otaro murders and a sketch labeled, quote, My Sexual Thrill is my bill, unquote. Ew. Yeah, he's gross. Also enclosed was a chapter list for the proposed book, for a proposed book titled The BTK Story, which basically mimicked the story of a nine uh written in 1999 by a TV crime writer. Which is so stupid. In July, a package dropped in a return slot at the public library contained even more bizarre material, including the claim that he was responsible for the death of a 19-year-old kid named Jake Allen in Argonia, Kansas, earlier that month. This was actually a false claim. What? Yeah, this Jake Allen kid actually killed himself.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Why would you false claim something? It's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Because BTK at this point is in his 60s and he wants them to think he's still active and killing. But realistically, there's no way a 60-year-old man is taking down a 19-year-old kid with any ease.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

But if he can make them think that he did it, then people will be afraid of him again. And I think that's what he wants. Rader was arrested on February twenty fifth, two thousand five, and would later be charged with ten counts of first degree murder. Here's what went down. Rader contacted the police via the radio station and like a newspaper, right? Sometimes he would put like an ad in the paper. And again, he likes to use the stupid names like Bill Thomas Killman, right? BTK. And in this, he was asking them if he sent them a floppy disk from a computer with images and shit on there. Could the floppy disk be traced back to him?

SPEAKER_03 43:56

What the fuck? They're gonna say no, and then he's gonna. Than the floppy disk, and then that's how they're gonna figure it out, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:03

That's exactly what happens.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Oh my god, really? I called it.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

He's so old at this point that he doesn't understand how technology works. So, yes, they say, No, of course, we can't trace that back to you. So then, of course, he mails them a floppy disk, which once they open it up, they can look at the metadata, and they saw that floppy disk came from a computer at a church, and it was used by somebody named Dennis. So it doesn't take them long to look up that Dennis is one of the council presidents at this church.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

He's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

It's it's a riot that that's how he got caught.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

So he was arrested driving home near his home in Park City shortly after noontime on February twenty-fifth, two thousand and five. When an officer asked him, Mr. Rader, do you know why you're going downtown? Rader replied, Oh, I have my suspicions. Oh no. This fucking guy. So while this is going on, the FBI, the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, and the ATF searched Rader's home and vehicle, seizing evidence including computer equipment, a pair of black pantyhose retrieved from a shed, and a cylindrical container. The church that he attended and his office at City Hall, because remember, he does work for the city as well as their compliance officer, was also searched. And then at a press conference, the Wichita police announced the bottom line is BTK is arrested. So he pled guilty to all charges on June 27, 2005. As part of his plea deal, he had to give the horrifying details of his crimes in court and on the record. Many observers noted that as he described the gruesome events, he showed zero remorse or emotion. Now, because he committed the crimes back before 1994, which is when Kansas reinstated the death penalty, he could not be sentenced to death, and he received ten life sentences. Which is crazy. And we joke about this all the time. Yeah, you can get a lot. Um, we've joked that what that should mean is after he dies, they basically calculate how long he was alive, and then they get to keep him for nine times that length still. They just let his body sit there, but after his capture, Raider admitted in his interrogation that he had begun planning to kill again and began stalking his intended victims. But again, he's 60 years old, so I'm not sure unless he's gonna kill children, like teenagers, maybe teenage girls, I don't think he would have been able to pull it off. So, Rader, during like interviews, he would talk about topics such as the weather during like these drives from one prison to another, and he even began to cry when his victims' family impact statements were read at court when they came on the radio. He'd cry. Which is yeah, he's fucking weird. So he is now in solitary confinement for his own protection, which means that he only gets out one hour a day and only gets to shower three times a week. Oh, yeah, fuck him. And this will likely continue indefinitely because yeah, he's not going anywhere. Now, amazingly, when I first started the podcast, I wrote Dennis Rader a letter. I was hoping he would respond. He did not, he never did. He did not, yeah, so unfortunately, um, yeah, it's he just didn't bother. And you know what? That's probably for the best. At the time that I did that, I was really hoping I could get interviews with killers. I was very ambitious. But uh yeah. So now Rader has had interviews, numerous interviews. He likes to talk, which again, which is why I thought he would talk with me. But he really likes to get involved. And he has basically gone out of his way to interject himself into other crimes. He has reached out to people about various other killers, including the Long Island serial killer, trying to give them, trying to give police information that he thinks might be valuable to their cause. But the simple reality of it is he doesn't really know what he's talking about. And if you're not familiar with the Long Island Island serial killer or more specifically, the Gilgo Beach murders, this is something that we're gonna talk about in a later episode at some point. But as of now, Raider sits in prison and we're all waiting for him to die.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

That's damn right.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Fuck this guy, and you should see him. He's like he's bald on top, he's one of those assholes that keeps the back and the sides long, and he's just bald on the top with a pair of glasses. Like, who does that? Fucking crow up.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Does he still have his mustache?

SPEAKER_01 49:40

You know, it's tough. I don't know, I haven't seen a recent photo of him, but probably he probably wants to still look like the BTK killer.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Because he's a sad, sad individual. So, and don't forget his daughter Carrie did write that book, which I highly recommend. And there's a really good podcast, uh, that's like an eight-episode podcast on his murders that m went much, much deeper than I did, and that's really good as well. So, but yeah, so what did you think, Manster?

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Really gruesome, really gruesome. Why do you why did he like to tie everybody up? Like, why was that his thing? What did he get out of it?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Well, he's I don't understand he got sexual gratification out of it. There was something about the control over a bound helpless victim that gave him sexual gratification.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

That's so dark.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, he's he's fucked. I mean, let's be honest, that's what most serial killers are. A lot of the murders we cover, if it's just a single one, it's usually there's like one inciting moment, but a serial killer is a different monster altogether. And in a way, like we you and I covered the um Israel Keys case, and he's fucked, but in a very different way. He like this guy wanted to make people suffer, and literally he didn't rape anybody at he was masturbating over their bodies. Yeah, which is crazy. And he wanted to be so famous, he wanted the world to know who he was while he was still getting away with it, and one of the things he said later after being caught was that uh he when he asked about the floppy disc, he honestly thought police would be honest with him because he thought police enjoyed the cat and mouse game as much as he did.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

That's fucking funny. He's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

I mean, he's an old at that point, he's an old man, right? He's in his 60s, he's just out of his head. And now he's famous, and he probably enjoys every moment of it. Which makes me wonder why the which makes me wonder why the bastard never wrote me back, but whatever. Fuck him.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

Fuck him.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Although, with that said, I was looking up a case that I want to cover, and I stumbled upon a website that lists inmates and their addresses if you want to write to them.

SPEAKER_03 52:14

Oh boy. Does that mean you're gonna write to some more killers?

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Um, yes, that's exactly what it means. But only because, see, like, so for example, Dennis Rader is not on this website, he's not looking for a pen pal. But amazingly, a killer that I want to cover the case of is looking for a pen pal.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

There you go, Dennis. You can go make a new friend.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

So, what I'm gonna do is I am going to write a letter to this particular killer and try to open up a dialogue. And I don't know if this individual is willing to actually have an interview or what have you, but we'll see what happens. I figure it's been long enough now, with over 160 episodes, that I'm better at it than I would have been had it happened at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Well, fingers crossed, you get a response back.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Well, I yeah, we'll see what happens. I obviously am focusing in on murderers, which is terrifying, but um, you know, it is it's something I want to experiment with. We'll see what happens. But I'm not gonna write like I'm not gonna write like a bunch of prisoners or anything. I just want to talk to this one particular killer. This person is, and then I want to just to put my our listeners' uh nerves at ease, right? I'm not writing to a male. This is a a young female, and she's not getting out until 2070 something. Oh shit. If she lives that long. So I'm not writing to someone that it's gonna make me feel unsafe. That's that's the important part here. Yeah. But I don't want to go into any more detail in case you're there when we cover the case. All right. With that said, thank you everybody for joining us once again. I'm Janice Dead.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

I'm Mouse Serves.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

And we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Bye.