Unsung Murder Ballads
This is a True Crime podcast that focuses on murders, solved or unsolved. We will occasionally break our own rules when that catches out fancy and cover something that may not exactly be a murder.
We would like to warn anyone listening that we do cover sensitive content and it's usually presented to the co-hosts with little to no knowledge of the case details so that their responses and reactions are genuine. And we tend to do all this with some dark humor. So, if this doesn't work for you, we understand. There are a lot of other podcasts out there for you to enjoy. However, if you think that might be your thing, please give us a listen, interact with us on our social media pages, and get to know us.
Hosts: Janus Dead & Joyous Dead, with an occasional special guest.
Unsung Murder Ballads
Episode 173: Casey Anthony
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In this week's episode Janus and Joyous break down the Casey Anthony story and all the flaws that come with it. It's a first for us, as Joyous actually knew more about the case than usual. Join us for our thoughts on this one.
Unsung Murder Ballads is a true crime podcast, and as such, we will be discussing topics that are disturbing, graphic, and often violent in nature. So this is not for children under the age of 13.
SPEAKER_01But you know this because you did start playing this episode. So here are some things you might not know about us.
SPEAKER_00We are going to be critical of mistakes made by both criminals and law enforcement.
SPEAKER_01We're going to express our views on things that you might not always agree with.
SPEAKER_00We will occasionally go on an off-topic tangent.
SPEAKER_01And we're going to use dark humor to express ourselves now and then.
SPEAKER_00So if you're easily triggered, this might not be the podcast for you.
SPEAKER_01However, if this is your cup of tea, then raise your pinky finger while you sip and join us for this week's horrific case, you sick bastards.
SPEAKER_00Hey everybody, welcome back to Unsung Murder Ballads. This is episode 173. I am Janice Dead.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Joyce Dead.
SPEAKER_00And this is actually 173 this week. I kept thinking last week was, but no, this is it.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. The counting skills are on point.
SPEAKER_00Right? Yeah, it's because I posted the last week's just yesterday. So I was like, okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_01Well, there we go. And we're counting and we're doing math. Incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it was um, you know, hey, you know what? It I have a lot on my mind. Counting wasn't part of it.
SPEAKER_01You're so valid for that.
SPEAKER_00So this week we're doing a case that I'm pretty sure you're gonna at least recognize the name. So I'm curious.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Casey Anthony.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I know about Casey Anthony.
SPEAKER_00Okay, how much do you think you know? Am I is is this gonna be a refresher or um probably a refresher.
SPEAKER_01I know a decent amount. She killed her kids.
SPEAKER_00Something like that. It's not plural, it's not plural, and she was acquitted, so we don't really know.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right, right, right. I remember this. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so we'll we'll go through.
SPEAKER_01There's a line from a childish Gambino song where he says, made the beat, then murdered it, Casey Anthony. So you know.
SPEAKER_00That's funny. Is that where you first heard about this?
SPEAKER_01No, no, I was aware enough, like, because this happened recently enough that I was like a teenager and it was all over the news. Right. Especially because it was like a a woman murderer and or murdering a child. That was pretty big, that's a pretty big deal.
SPEAKER_00Right. I remember my favorite part was after she was acquitted, the memes of Dexter reading that in the newspaper and like having a smile on his face.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and this was memed to all hell, and she was dragged through the public holes.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01I don't know enough we're gonna learn today, you know, what we should make of that, but I do know that you know she's been a pop culture reference ever since.
SPEAKER_00So this is definitely a first then. This is one that you're gonna know quite a bit about as we go through it. So this is kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01Crazy 173 and Joyous finally knows something.
SPEAKER_00Finally. Well, it was a it was bound to happen. And this one I was looking at, I was debating doing it as a for Joyce's information when we were still doing those, but then I was like, you know what, let's just do it. Let's who cares?
SPEAKER_01And then look at that, it would not be for my well, it'd be for my more information, but I do actually know about this.
SPEAKER_00Right, which is yeah, so I mean it kind of like when Jameson did this with us, he knew quite a bit of those cases, and he still found things shocking here and there.
SPEAKER_01So Right. I do not know the details, and what I have heard, we all know that I did not retain. So probably not clearly I was like, oh, the kid's plural, and um Right.
SPEAKER_00So what I won't do then is I won't do the teaser that I was gonna do because you do know the case. So there's no real point in a teaser. And that would have just ruined a moment that I was one of those moments for me the first time I heard it, where I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right, let's rock right in then.
SPEAKER_00All right, so Casey Marie Anthony was born on March 19th, 1986, in Warren, Ohio, to George and Cindy. She was the youngest of two children, and Casey was raised in Orlando, Florida. Her father, George, was the was a police officer, turned security guard, and her mother, Cindy, was a nurse. As a child, she was a quote unquote tomboy who enjoyed photography, played sports, and was well liked by her peers, her teachers, and all that good stuff during those younger school years. The family was close knit, but the parents frequently clashed with Casey in her teenage years.
SPEAKER_01You know, not abnormal.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, not abnormal. I clashed with everyone in my teenage years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you did.
SPEAKER_00I really did. Some perspectives in later discussions suggest that the family environment included enabling her behavior, where her parents struggled to hold her accountable, leading to a pattern of deceitful behavior in her adult life.
SPEAKER_01This just sounds normal. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Again, it sounds like parents who didn't really know how to discipline their kid, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Right, which a lot of parents don't. It's you know, to do it right requires, like, I don't know, a lot of knowledge. I fear someday when it's my job, I'm not gonna know how to do it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I gotta be honest, every time my father tried to have one of those sit-down talks with me about my behavior, I purposefully went out and was worse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true, but I think you were born a shitlord, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00I've never been called a shit lord before. I'll take that title.
SPEAKER_01I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_00I'm okay with that. Of all the things that have been called in my life, I'm like a shitlord, I'll take it.
SPEAKER_01You were definitely a shitlord as a youth, that I would say, certified.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I don't remember which member of my family it was that called me a shit stir, but yeah, that was me. I love to just create chaos. I still do to this day.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you definitely a shit stir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, friends of hers say that a pattern of lying began with in Casey Anthony when she was in high school. So Cindy and George attended Casey's graduation along with her grandparents, only to discover that she actually was several credits shy of graduating.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So she didn't even tell them that, hey, I'm not gonna be actually graduating, but come on anyway. Ugh. Yeah. She had stopped attending classes towards the end of her senior school year and led her family to believe that she would be walking with the graduating class.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's just kind of dumb. But that's how you know pathological liars are. Right. And not that she's necessarily one. No, she was what they do.
SPEAKER_00She was, because this is just the start of this pattern with her. So when she was 19, she gave her family yet another shock. She had put on a little bit of weight, and her parents kind of suspected that she might be pregnant, but she was denying that, claiming that she was still the virgin.
SPEAKER_01And it wasn't until that's a lie that doesn't last very long.
SPEAKER_00Right? It wasn't until months into her pregnancy that she finally told them the truth. And on August 9th, 2005, at 19 years old, Casey gave birth to her daughter, Kaylee. Which I like that name, it's a cute name. But if your name is Casey, I think that's weird. You know?
SPEAKER_01People name their children after themselves. Why not?
SPEAKER_00I know, but that would be I don't know. It's weird that it's almost your name. That's all that's what I'm I that's how I take it. You know, it's like, okay, it's me, but not me, which I guess is your kid. I it's fucking weird to me.
SPEAKER_01Well, then you're gonna have to not make fun of my kids someday when I name them after my middle name.
SPEAKER_00But that's different.
SPEAKER_01Like that's right, it's not a first name, it it counts different.
SPEAKER_00It's not it's not like it was your first name with a couple letters mixed up. Like giving them your middle name is cool, especially because I know your middle name and I get that. Whereas my middle name, fuck that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that's a that's a stupid name. That should never be someone's first name for sure.
SPEAKER_00Right, let alone your middle name. So but anyway.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, listeners, you don't get to know our middle names or our social security numbers, but we're gonna make fun of each other in private.
SPEAKER_00Right. All right, anyway, so Casey refused to identify who the father was to her family and friends once she did come out as pregnant.
SPEAKER_01Right, if she even knew.
SPEAKER_00She also pointed to different men, including a guy she was actually engaged to named Jesse Grund, as well as a young man that she had dated previously who had died in a car crash. So she kind of alluded to these men possibly being the father.
SPEAKER_01You know, the fiance would be the most likely suspect, but um unless she already has a little bit of a volatile dating life.
SPEAKER_00Well, not only that, but like I can see where like maybe that guy might be suspicious enough to have a DNA test done, so maybe she doesn't want to commit to it.
SPEAKER_01Totally valid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But regardless, the Anthony family felt overjoyed at Kaylee's arrival, and they doted on the little girl and were deeply involved in her upbringing. Now, initially, Casey appeared to be a loving mother, but tensions continued to flare with her loved ones, especially over money and what they considered to be Casey's disregard for her responsibilities.
SPEAKER_01Yikes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I have I have friends who were parents at 19. I watched some of their behaviors be less than perfect. I get it.
SPEAKER_01Hope you're not talking about my parents.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm not. Your parents were not 19 when I knew them.
SPEAKER_01That's true. You didn't know them yet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I hadn't known them yet. Um, but I have I've watched some shit where I remembered thinking, like, oh my god, but most of their my the people I'm referring to, most of their kids turned out to be really good kids, really good adults. So like most of them.
SPEAKER_01Most of them.
SPEAKER_00A friend of hers said that she had discussed giving the baby up for adoption, but had been discouraged from doing so by her mother.
SPEAKER_01So Casey definitely didn't like didn't want to parent, and she wasn't given a way out.
SPEAKER_00Correct. She wasn't supported down that path. So she was actually stuck, even though it was her fault. She was still stuck. She had she tried, could have taken an option, but there was resistance there.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00So for the next few years, Casey and Kaylee lived with her parents, and Grund acted as the baby's father. So you got this guy, her fiance, taking that route, whether he believed he was the baby's father or not. I don't know if that's true or not. I don't know if he thought he was the father, but he was stepping up.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00But later, a DNA test would find that he was not Kaylee's father.
SPEAKER_01Oof.
SPEAKER_00And to this day, who Kaylee's father actually was still remains a mystery.
SPEAKER_01Damn. I guess they probably don't have a DNA sample from the previous person she dated who passed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably not. But by mid-June 2008, with her suitability as a mother called into question by her own mother, Cindy, Casey left her parents' home after a major argument, taking Kaylee with her. Over the ensuing weeks, Cindy called Casey to check in on Kaylee often. Each time Casey told her that Kaylee was out with a babysitter. Okay. And this was a woman by the name of Zaneda Zani Fernandez Gonzalez. On July 13th, 2008, George and Cindy received a letter saying that Casey Anthony's car was in a tow yard waiting to be picked up and basically accruing fees for sitting there.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So George, Casey's father, goes to pick up the car and in it he finds Casey's purse along with Kaylee's car seat and a scattering of toys.
SPEAKER_01He also Those are kind of important things.
SPEAKER_00Yes. George also said he noticed a strong smell, something like matter decomposing from the area. Oh no. From the area of the trunk. But when he looked, he claimed or said that there was a trash bag there that he had removed from the trunk. Now, alarmed, Cindy found Casey Anthony at home with her boyfriend, a new boyfriend, a guy named Tony Lazaro. And she brought she brought Casey home. And over a string of 911 calls, they finally report that Kaylee had been missing for a month.
SPEAKER_01Fuuuc.
SPEAKER_00Now, her mother is on the phone demanding that Casey be arrested and noted on that 911 call, quote, it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car, unquote.
SPEAKER_01Yup. This is already said, like I'm I've definitely heard this story, and I'm I'm failing to understand how this wasn't enough evidence.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm we're we're gonna go through it exactly.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure we are.
SPEAKER_00So at this point, Casey broke down and she told her mother and her brother Lee that she had left Kaylee with this nanny, Zanny, in Orlando on June 16th, and that Zanny had kidnapped her. So on July 15th, here we are like a month later, 31 days and to be exact, Cindy reported Kaylee missing to the Orange County Sheriff's Office. After questioning Casey, detectives found discrepancies in her signed statement that she had made about Kaylee's disappearance. So now they have more questions. So Casey's friends and family had never heard of this nanny. Which again, if you're gonna make something up, be better. Don't make it rhyme.
SPEAKER_01Right, that's not a very convincing lie.
SPEAKER_00Zanny the nanny. Come on.
SPEAKER_01Come on.
SPEAKER_00So detectives later figured out that there was no nanny. Casey. Yeah, but they're asking her questions, and she led investigators to an uninhabited apartment where she claimed that Zaneda, Zanny, was supposed to have lived. But police are investigating it. Now keep in mind, Kaylee's been missing for 31 days. They go and they start investigating this apartment and they find out that it's been empty, legally at least, for 141 days.
SPEAKER_01So nobody's gonna is just leading them on a wild fucking goose chase.
SPEAKER_00Which is so funny because it's the next thing, literally the next thing we're gonna talk about, which I almost use as the teaser. So after they caught her in that lie, they were asking her further questions about things that they were suspicious of. And one of them being that she told them she worked at Universal Studios. They were like, Well, we want to see, we want to see your workspace. So on July 16th, this fucking woman literally led them around the theme park, wandering around, seemingly without knowing where she was really going. One place to another, walking through this building, through in that building.
SPEAKER_01Right, and she like doesn't actually work there, right?
SPEAKER_00And eventually she turns and says, Oh yeah, I don't really work here.
SPEAKER_01Fucking crazy bitch.
SPEAKER_00The the real truth of it is she had once worked there through a third-party vendor almost three years previously, and then just lied to everyone, claiming that she was working there, and finally here she was getting caught. And she never actually worked for the park.
SPEAKER_01We've given her a drug test.
SPEAKER_00I you know what? I have no information on that. I'm gonna assume, yes. But she was then arrested for child neglect, lying to investigators, and interfering with a criminal investigation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, investigation of her own fucking child's disappearance.
SPEAKER_00That you couldn't be bothered to report for a month.
SPEAKER_01Insane.
SPEAKER_00Crazy. So on July 22nd, 2008, Casey was declared a person of interest at a bond hearing. That hearing introduced evidence that a cadaver dog had zeroed in on the odor of human decomposition in the trunk of her car and in her backyard, as well as her mother Cindy's admission that she had not seen Kaylee after June 9th. Casey was only being held on relatively minor charges, but a judge was disturbed enough by the evidence that he saw and her seemingly indifferent behavior that he set her bail at a half a million dollars.
SPEAKER_01Good.
SPEAKER_00As the search for Kaylee intensified, Casey came under increasing scrutiny for her actions in the days before Kaylee was reported missing. Which included Yeah, I bet. Which included partying and getting a tattoo that read Bella Vita or Beautiful Life in Italian.
SPEAKER_01Girl?
SPEAKER_00Your kid's missing, and this is what you're doing?
SPEAKER_01Your kid's missing for a fucking month.
SPEAKER_00Fucking crazy. On July 29th, Casey was offered a limited immunity deal in exchange for helping find Kaylee. And prosecutors said that they would not use Casey's statements to police against her if she cooperated. She did not take the offer, and it did eventually expire on September 2nd of 2008. So they let her think about it for you know a few weeks. No, over a month.
SPEAKER_01And the fact that she's not even just like taking the deal and say, and then being like, well, I don't have information.
SPEAKER_00Like Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure the deal isn't contingent on having information.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_00That's usually how those go. So Casey returned home on August 21st after Bounty Hunter and reality TV star, Leonard Padilla, posted her half a million dollar bail.
SPEAKER_01What?
SPEAKER_00Now Padilla, keep in mind, he's a reality TV show guy, right? He hoped that Casey would lead detectives to find Kaylee. Like that she would do something to kind of clue them. And he was disappointed. What? Correct. He thought by letting her out, she would do something that would lead them to where Kaylee was. But he was disappointed when she failed to provide any additional clues. And he said, quote, I came, I gave it my best shot, she didn't want to work with me. What can I say? Unquote.
SPEAKER_01This is nuts.
SPEAKER_00Who does that? Besides, I mean, a reality TV show star. That's who does it. Right. Today would be a technical. Right. Now he did label Casey as narcissistic and promiscuous, fueling the fires of public sentiment against her, which realistically, we all thought that.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01And also like, I don't really care if she's promiscuous. I care that her fucking daughter's missing and she didn't care.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a big that's a big thing.
SPEAKER_01Be promiscuous all you goddamn want. That's true.
SPEAKER_00That's true. Now that I've realized that I you're right, I quoted that and I'm like, what the fuck did that have to do with anything?
SPEAKER_01Other than try to paint her as well, it it definitely attracts more media attention because people will hate a woman for being promiscuous and they'll decide that you know she's bad inherently because of that.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01But you know.
SPEAKER_00Right. You're not you're not wrong. As you know, the case became a national media sensation, and many in the public and the press were outraged by Casey's behavior. There were angry crowds demonstrating outside the Anthony's home. And Casey was back in jail only eight days after being released. And this time she was charged with forging checks and identity theft for allegedly stealing and cashing checks from a friend.
SPEAKER_01That's fucked.
SPEAKER_00So screwed up. I'd be fucking furious.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Who knows? But thankfully they revoked her bail and threw her back in. Hopefully that idiot reality star got his money back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I hope so too.
SPEAKER_00So Casey was again released after, quote, other parties posted her bond on September 5th, although she would return to jail by the end of the month. So I don't know why people are helping her get out, but Right.
SPEAKER_01Or like why I mean I'm sure there's rules to when you can hold someone without bond, but maybe it's Florida, so I don't really know.
SPEAKER_00But on October 14th, 2008, she was finally charged with first degree murder.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Ah, I get it. It would be really hard to prove murder.
SPEAKER_00Right. And that's a body. Correct. Well, yet. We'll get there. So the unsealed indictment also charged her with aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. So they're not going after just one charge. Which is good because that was the mistake they made with um the rich guy whose wife went missing and then he killed his neighbor. Um Robert Durst. That's what it was. So in response, Casey's lawyer, a man named Jose Baez, said that his clients' actions would become clear at trial. He said, quote, he he said, quote, I sincerely believe when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, now I understand that explains it. Unquote.
SPEAKER_01And you're gonna wait until trial to do that? Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Fucking people, man.
SPEAKER_01They're crazy.
SPEAKER_00On October 24th, 2008, forensic reports from an examination of Casey's car were released. The reports noted that a hair strand discovered in the trunk was microscopically similar to those found on Kaylee's brush and showed characteristics of apparent decomposition.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, like, yeah, of course her daughter's hair is in her trunk.
SPEAKER_00In her trunk, though, maybe if you put their clothes in there.
SPEAKER_01Daughter has a backpack that has hair on it and you put it in there, you know?
SPEAKER_00It's a little weird though.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Now, additionally, and this is something weird, and it's gonna come up again a little bit later. It's fucking this part confuses me, but additionally, there was an air sample from the trunk that was found to contain chemical compounds consistent with human decomposition.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so they're just like basically like scientific verification of the smell.
SPEAKER_00Correct. But yeah, there's gonna be it, it's a weird thing. Like they go on, there's gonna be another point where they talk about that a little bit differently, but it's still weird to me. I'm like, yeah, alright, maybe. But you're gonna call something an air sample? I don't off topic a little bit. I don't know if you've ever gone to like a historical museum with me, but I I hate when there's just an empty case in a room because they have they've removed whatever it is for whatever reason, but they leave the empty case, they leave the empty case sitting there. I I was at um, I don't know, it was a an Egyptian exhibit, and I was with a group of friends, and there was this empty case, and I went, I made this big show of being like, oh my god, inside this case is air from 4,000 years ago. And I literally, in doing this, actually drew idiots over to look at the case that I didn't know.
SPEAKER_01That's fucking funny.
SPEAKER_00I was like, you're gonna be fucking kidding me, people.
SPEAKER_01That's really fucking funny.
SPEAKER_00So that's how I feel about this air sample. Like I get what they're saying, but come on, an air sample?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01No, that's that's something that makes sense to me.
SPEAKER_00Does it? It bothers the shit out of me.
SPEAKER_01Someone with like a chemistry background, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but it bothers the shit out of me. I'm not gonna lie. It's like okay.
SPEAKER_01That's so valid. Yeah, we have ways of detecting the what is in air, like volatile compounds. It's the same reason like you have a carbon monoxide detector, it's you know, it's sampling the air.
SPEAKER_00And I get that, but we're also talking for me, in my mind, it's a trunk, and it was a month later.
SPEAKER_01Right, but it's still it's still giving off stuff, otherwise it wouldn't have a smell. Right. Smells are made of molecules.
SPEAKER_00I get it, it just bugs me, is all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01That's valid.
SPEAKER_00All right. So jumping it back a little bit here, um, I'm sprinkling some of this throughout because uh it didn't make sense in my head so to to like drop it in as it went, you know what I mean? So I'm just kind of jumping back a little. But on August 11th, 12th, and 13th of 2008, a meter reader named Roy Kronk called police because there was a suspicious object found in a forested area near the Anthony residence. So in the first instance, he was directed by the sheriff's office to call it, call into a tip line, which he did, and he received no return call.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00The next day, on the second instance, he called the sheriff's office again, and eventually two officers went out to meet him. He reported to them that he had seen what appeared to be a skull in a gray bag. On that occasion, those officers conducted a very brief search and came back and said they didn't see anything. So Kronk called the police again on December 11th. Now keep this in mind, this is August all the way through to December. Finally, he calls them again. This time police showed up and did an actual search and they found the remains of a child in a trash bag. The investigative team recovered duct tape, which was hanging from like from the skull. Yeah. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. Over the next four days, more bones were found in the wooded area near the spot where the remains were initially discovered. On December 19th, 2008, the medical examiner confirmed that the remains that they found were Cayleys. The bones showed no evidence of trauma, but the death was ruled a homicide, with the cause of death being listed as undetermined.
SPEAKER_01Reasonable. But at this point, reports Oh, I think I remember how this ends now. Oh, fuck.
SPEAKER_00At this point, the reports state that there was duct tape around the nose, mouth, and jaw, and that due to the advanced state of decomposition, investigators could not pinpoint the exact cause or date of death. So I'm curious, how do you what do you rem you said you remember how this ends? What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01What I think I remember is that Casey accuses her father of sexual abuse and says that her father also sexually abused her daughter and then killed her to destroy the evidence. I'm remembering the right thing.
SPEAKER_00You remember some of it, and then you're I don't know where you're getting some of it, but we'll go through it.
SPEAKER_01Maybe I'm remembering another case. Who knows?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it you've got some of it. I'll give you that. Interestingly, on January 23rd, 2009, Casey's father George was taken into custody after he attempted suicide.
SPEAKER_01Ooh.
SPEAKER_00Reports state that George was despondent and possibly under the influence of medication and alcohol when he was located at a hotel in Daytona Beach, along with a five-page suicide note.
SPEAKER_01I mean, going through it.
SPEAKER_00Definitely. It's a little weird, all things considered, but yeah. I mean, who am I to say? I can't say I've never thought about doing something like that myself, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. And it's like when your whole family's been torn apart, like that's a lot to cope with.
SPEAKER_00So you're right, a whole his whole family. So on April 13th, 2009, prosecutors announced their intention to pursue the death penalty against Casey Anthony. Although earlier court papers indicated that the death penalty would not be in play, the new notice in of intent cited that there was sufficient aggravating circumstances to justify its imposition.
SPEAKER_01Jury selection I wonder if that hurts the case. I wonder if that makes it harder to convict.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's tougher when you want the death penalty. And that doesn't mean I guess it depends on what you're really asking for the jury. If you allow the jury to make the decision for you, it's a little different. I don't know. Right. So jury selection began on May 9th, 2011, in Clearwater, Florida, because the case was so widely reported in the Orlando area that they didn't think they would get an unbiased jury, so they had to be brought in from Pinillas County, which is I normally shocked if they could get an unbiased jury anywhere. That's true. That's true. Because we were talking about it, like you said. Here we are, it's 2011.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You just have to be people who like live under a rock and don't watch the news.
SPEAKER_00Right. Or yeah, somehow I mean, I'm I know there are people out there that don't pay attention to shit because I talk to them all the time. Like when I'm like, oh, did you hear about what happened with the Supreme Court today? And they're like, What? Yeah. What's the Supreme Court? Anyway, that's how I feel. I'm like, you fucking morons. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01Oh man.
SPEAKER_00So on May 24th, 2011, the trial began, and the prosecutor's opening salvo of Casey was basically that she was a party girl with no use for a young daughter, as evidenced by the month spent shopping and drinking during Kaylee's absence. Prosecutors stated that Casey used chloroform to incapacitate Kaylee before suffocating her with duct tape, leaving the body in the trunk of her car before disposing of it. Those remarks were soon eclipsed by Baez, her attorney, by his stunning opening statement, which asserted that Kaylee had drowned in the family's swimming pool, and that her and that her father George had tried to cover up the accidental death so that Casey would not be charged with child neglect. And it was at this point that her lawyer alleged that her father had molested Casey beginning when she was eight years old, thereby igniting her lifelong habit of lying to basically cover up her pain. And she also made claims that her brother Lee had made sexual advances towards her as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember that. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yep. It's one of those things like it's not that any part of that isn't possible. It's just really unlikely that all of it is is possible. And I'm not saying it isn't, it clearly could be. But it's just it it's a lot to throw at everybody at once.
SPEAKER_01It is, especially it's like, you know, just to say like she was unhelpful because she's the compulsive liar.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01She didn't really grieve because she was lying? Like what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it and and what you you didn't grieve or give a shit your kid was missing, or that your kid drowned and your father covered it up because what you he um abused you when you were a kid? You were still comfortable enough around him. I i I'm not I'm not I you know what I'm gonna to continue living there. Yeah, it's crazy. The whole thing just doesn't make sense, which is why it doesn't really go anywhere. Which is why I thought it was interesting that that's one of the things you remembered.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that that line didn't go anywhere?
SPEAKER_00No, eventually she's told her lawyers told not to bring it up in court again.
SPEAKER_01Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so it goes nowhere. There's no evidence of it. And in fact, the uh the courts or the authorities even went and did a paternity test to prove and proved conclusively that neither her father nor her brother was Kaylee's father.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I mean, sure. I'll give them credit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're doing due diligence, sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is definitely due diligence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because had it turned out that her father was Kaylee's father, that would have flipped a lot of things on there on its head.
SPEAKER_01Certainly. Certainly.
SPEAKER_00Her lawyer then went on to imply that that utility worker, that uh I think his name is Gronk, the one who found her body, they went on to claim that he planted it there.
SPEAKER_01What the fuck?
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00They give no real evidence as to why or how. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like planted it there and then called it it himself and then walked the police to it.
SPEAKER_00Right. Multiple times, and the police didn't believe him the first couple times. Like it that blows me that blows me away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_00So taking the witness stand and being the first witness to do so, her father George denied that he ever assaulted his daughter or that he knew anything about Kaylee's supposed drowning. Some of the evidence the prosecution showed was that there was a website about the toxic chemical chloroform that had been searched by someone in the Anthony's home on their computer.
SPEAKER_01What was the search?
SPEAKER_00Well, here's the thing, right? So the chloroform, so apparently that that air sample included chloroform inside the trunk.
SPEAKER_01Interesting, okay.
SPEAKER_00And there, I I don't know how, I don't know if I took it out of my notes later, but there was one expert that came in that said sometimes or oftentimes during decomposition, you can find traces of chloroform just inside decomposition from the human body. So that's that's also part of it. Now, interestingly, later, her mother, Cindy, takes responsibility on the stand for doing these searches for chloroform.
SPEAKER_01So interesting. Like she's saying, Oh, I searched it because I was suspicious that someone might have done it.
SPEAKER_00She I there honestly, I didn't dig that deep. I just thought it was weird and thought I should bring it up, especially because we know that Casey's gonna be acquitted.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So that may have just been something her mother took responsibility for and may not have been true.
SPEAKER_01Right, or it was just like, you know, maybe she was watching a show where they used chloroform and she was like, What is that? And then possible.
SPEAKER_00I look up shit like that all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, me too. I'm always like, Oh, should I do an incognito tab for this one? But I'm pretty sure they can still track this.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure they can. I'll be watching a show that's like a period piece, and they'll say a term, and I'm like, Did they really use that term back then? And I'll that's what my search will be.
SPEAKER_01Like, yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Because it bothered me a lot when um this is totally off topic, but whatever, that's what you guys kind of hear for anyway, though, you dear listener. Um, I was watching the TV show Rome, right? And have you ever watched it? No, no, it is so good, it is so so good. And there are these two Roman soldiers who are kind of sort of the main characters of it all, kinda sorta, not counting like Caesar and whatever. And they're they're kind of throughout the whole thing, like they're kind of like the R2 and 3 PO of the whole thing. But um, there's one point where they're walking, and this one guy, the one soldier is complaining about how his wife never doesn't seem to enjoy sexual intercourse, sexual intimacy. And the other guy says, he goes, Well, you know, she has a little button, and you have to pay attention to the button, and that will help bring her to pleasure. And then the first guy grabs him and is like, How do you know she has this? And he's like, They all have it. That's so funny, but like, but then it stopped. I was like, Is that common knowledge back then? Um like that sold Roman soldiers would know it because it's funny because today we make the joke that men can't find it. So, like, right. So I was like, really, thousands of years ago? So you should have seen the round.
SPEAKER_01I believe that one Roman soldier knew, right?
SPEAKER_00Maybe, but it was so funny. It's a really, really good show. It was two seasons, an HBO, phenomenal show. Just saying.
SPEAKER_01Oh, let's check it out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's really it's a lot of fun. You'll see a lot of um actors you'll recognize from a lot of shows, especially Game of Thrones.
SPEAKER_01So hell yeah. I love me some HBO good shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this was this was a good series. In fact, your parents were the ones who got me to watch it. Yeah, right. So back to this.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, back to murder.
SPEAKER_00Casey's mother Cindy allegedly also testified. Her mother Cindy also testified that her comments to 911 on that call about Casey's car smelling like someone had died was just a figure of speech.
SPEAKER_01She um her mother's really trying to defend her.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And she goes even further, insane. She goes even further by saying that she made these quote-unquote exaggerated claims on the phone in an effort to get to get police to respond quickly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or like you're so pissed off. Yeah, sure. That's believable. But like to say, like, oh, it didn't even really smell like death. Yeah, okay, girl. Yeah. Why do you what do you mean? You're like, no, it just like kind of smelled like death. What?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I a figure of speech. Sure, sure, lady.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it is, but you're only saying it if like something smells so fucking awful.
SPEAKER_00Like it it makes me I agree, but it makes me think of that episode we did, the case we did where the girl was murdered in her apartment and her boyfriend was trying to text her, and he actually sent, Are you still alive?
SPEAKER_01Like Right. Oh my god, awful, awful, awful, awful.
SPEAKER_00That's what it makes me think of. Like, yeah, maybe you used a bad turn of phrase, but the fact that it connects is so bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, ever since then, I've never sent a text like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think about it every time I send one now. I'm like, oh, I shouldn't say that.
SPEAKER_01It's ominous, and I'm like, oh uh, I'm now jinxing it. I I can't. I'm gonna kill this person by sending this text.
SPEAKER_00It'd be so weird if that was the cause and effect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, in some twisted, fucked-up universe.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that'd be so bizarre. All right, so the manager of the towing company that had impounded Casey's car back in June of 2008, his name was Simon Birch, which is a fantastic movie. Nothing about this guy, but Simon Birch is a great movie, highly recommend it. Um, he testified that the in that he had encountered multiple vehicles that had bodies in them during the three decades in the business. And he said that the smell from Casey's car was consistent with his past experiences.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00So going back to what you said about the smell and you know the chemicals of it, he's probably right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And a cadaver dog, additionally, like, come on. No, I many pieces of evidence do we have to have? Cadaver dog air sample, like, come on.
SPEAKER_00Agree, but unfortunately, that's we know it's not going to be enough.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we know this. So, again, another per another investigator, a man by the name of Arpad Voss of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, took the stand and he explained how shockingly high amounts of chloroform was detected in the trunk, which led to the conclusion that there was a dead body some at some point in that truck, in that trunk.
SPEAKER_01Right, and Casey's claiming that it was never in her car because her father did it.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01Did it or he did the burying or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he he took her body from the pool and then buried it. Right. So on June 30th, the defense rested, and Anthony, Casey Anthony herself did not take the stand, which is smart on her part.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In closing arguments, and continuing with the narrative that Casey was overly burdened by Kaylee, the lead prosecutor, Jeff Ashton, emphasized to the jury that the young mother was motivated enough to go to extremes to achieve her freedom, saying, quote, something needed to be sacrificed, that something was either the life she wanted or the life thrust upon her, and she chose to sacrifice her child, unquote. Now, her defense lawyer, who was forbidden from revisiting the unsupported molestation claims, nevertheless delivered an effective closing argument by pointing out the lack of evidence that could definitively place Kaylee's body in the car trunk or tie Casey to her daughter's death. On July 5th, almost six weeks of testimony and 400 pieces of evidence had been presented to the court, and the jury took over ten hours to deliver, deliberate, and found Casey Anthony not guilty of first degree murder, aggravated manslaughter, and aggravated child abuse, citing the mostly circumstantial evidence presented.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's fucking nuts. It doesn't count as child abuse to not report your child missing.
SPEAKER_00It should be dead. It certainly should.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what? You know your child's dead and you're not even Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00It's so fucking annoying.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that sucks ass.
SPEAKER_00However, she was found guilty on four counts of providing false information to law enforcement and sentenced to four years in jail and a four thousand dollar fine.
SPEAKER_01That sucks.
SPEAKER_00Two of the false information counts would later be thrown out during appeals. So it's like it doesn't even stop. It's so stupid. That's nuts. She ultimately received credit for time served and good behavior. She had been in prison.
SPEAKER_01I hate it.
SPEAKER_00She had been in prison during the trial, so she had been in prison for three years and a day, and she was released on July 17th.
SPEAKER_01That fucking sucks.
SPEAKER_00She was also required to be on probation for one year due to the check fraud charges.
SPEAKER_01Just a year, man. That sucks.
SPEAKER_00Subsequently, pursuant to a little-known Florida statute requiring judges to assess investigative and prosecution cost if required by a state agency, the judge ruled that Casey had to pay back $217,000 to the state of Florida.
SPEAKER_01Okay. That's reasonable, especially considering she sent them on this crazy journey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was.
SPEAKER_01Trying to investigate something that she just decided not to give them information about.
SPEAKER_00I I wish I could have been there at not it wasn't uh Disneyland. What was it?
SPEAKER_01Um Universal.
SPEAKER_00Universal. I couldn't remember the name of it. I wish I could have seen that. This woman leading police around on a wild goose chase throughout a theme park. Like, what was she thinking?
SPEAKER_01Like, oh sure, I'll take you to my office.
SPEAKER_00What was she thinking? Was she gonna get a she's just gonna turn a corner and make a run for it? It doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_01I don't think she was thinking. I think she panicked.
SPEAKER_00Maybe, but it's so funny.
SPEAKER_01But I don't know. I I'm not a I'm not a person who lies. I can't do it. Uh I don't know what goes through the head of people who do it all the time.
SPEAKER_00So I'm not I try I try not to lie in general, but when I do, I'm really good at it. I I can I can convince people of a lot of things. It is so much fun to just fuck with people.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I don't I don't have that capacity. Um I could even if I wanted to, I just I get it.
SPEAKER_00It's hard.
SPEAKER_01It's hard, and I just am such a transparent person. The truth is always right on my face. I can't cons I cannot neither lie nor conceal. I'm useless for that.
SPEAKER_00So I think that what's what it's what makes me so good at practical jokes, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00So obviously the public and the media were outraged at her not guilty verdict, and they brought up comparisons to OJ Simpson from 1995. The aftermath of the trial brought- But like I see it.
SPEAKER_01I I see that there wasn't enough evidence. Like I I can see that.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Because of the the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, there they're it only have evidence that there was some a dead human body in her trunk, which like should we maybe be investigating that more? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um certainly, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it doesn't tie her to this specific crime.
SPEAKER_00Well, the fact that she didn't report the baby missing was really the big part of it, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And that like so they couldn't prove that she did it, but they also didn't prove that she drowned.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they couldn't prove any of it. The presence of duct tape is a little fucked up. Like if she drowned, you don't need duct tape.
SPEAKER_01Right, like explain that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's over.
SPEAKER_01So like obviously he's gonna say he didn't do it. It's a lie.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So And she's gonna say, Well, I don't know why he did it.
SPEAKER_00Right, and I don't think her father did it. I think she did it.
SPEAKER_01I don't think he did either.
SPEAKER_00Right. But after the trial, this brought out about a slew of bills in several states for Cayley's law, which made it a felony for a parent or legal guardian to not report a missing child.
SPEAKER_01Love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Unfortunately, it took this to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01It always takes something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_01Because that's just something you wouldn't even think of. You wouldn't think that any parent wouldn't report their child missing unless they murdered them themselves.
SPEAKER_00Right, which again should have been enough to put her away, but it wasn't, so they had to create this law, which is so fucked.
SPEAKER_01It is so fucked.
SPEAKER_00So Casey Anthony herself has lived a life of seclusion in her Florida home, weary of venturing into public due to festering reactions to the case initially. That's true. She filed for bankruptcy, and she is estranged from her parents and keeps in contact with her formal legal team. In the spring of 2017, Casey Anthony gave a series of exclusive interviews to the Associated Press, claiming that she doesn't know how Kaylee died, and added, quote, I don't give a shit about what anybody thinks of me. I don't care about that. I never will. I'm okay with myself. I sleep pretty good at night. Unquote.
SPEAKER_01This bitch is fucked up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, there's no doubt of that.
SPEAKER_01But also there's no one in this world who doesn't, or I guess there's some people I'm exaggerating, but the everyone knows who she is. She's never gonna live a normal life.
SPEAKER_00Nope.
SPEAKER_01She will get the justice of never being welcomed into any community ever.
SPEAKER_00Hopefully. Agreed. The Associated Press described that interview with Casey as revealing, bizarre, and often contradictory, and ultimately raised more questions than answers. Which, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I believe it.
SPEAKER_00I'm not surprised. The woman's fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's nuts.
SPEAKER_00Now, as of the last time I could the most recent thing I could find on her, she currently lives and works with Patrick McKenna, the private detective who led the investigation for her defense team. And on March 1st, 2025, Casey posted a TikTok video announcing her new career as a legal advocate and promoting her email newsletter. She said she's planning to use Substack to advocate for women, the LGBTQ community, and her deceased daughter, Kaylee.
SPEAKER_01We rebuke this message. Us as the LGBTQ community. Do not help me. Go away.
SPEAKER_00She's so fucking crazy. In one of her videos, she explains how she plans to share advice and be accessible to users through email, which she only hopes will refine her public image. She now claims that her pregnancy was the result of getting drugged and raped at a house party when she was 18.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and that's how she puts it out there all these years later. And that is the case of Casey Ann? Okay. So I you know, you got me. I I just needed to put it in there at the end. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, it's fair. It's fair. You had to tell us.
SPEAKER_00Fucking crazy. This woman's nuts. She really is.
SPEAKER_01Fuck that, bitch. She belongs in prison away from society.
SPEAKER_00Agreed.
SPEAKER_01For even if her crimes could not be proven, there are crimes that she committed that we don't have words for. Okay? Like just Yeah. If you don't report your dead child like and face the consequences of being an inadequate parent.
SPEAKER_00Like I could off. I could understand if it was legitimately an accident, but like you would have had to have reported that immediately for me to have sympathy for you. Like if your daughter fell in a pool and drowned and it was just you not being attentive, there's consequences, but I'd have more respect for you for owning up to it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Like these things do happen. Children drown a lot. It's frightening and it's sad, but it happens.
SPEAKER_00Right. I mean, especially like it makes me think of the gorilla. Um the one the kid fell into the the the exhibit at the zoo and they had to kill the gorilla.
SPEAKER_01Arambe.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Like kids are wily. They get out of your hands. Like, I get it. But I don't think that's what happened here.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think so either. I'm I'm sus on the sus on that there was ever a pool.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um well the duct tape gives away.
SPEAKER_01You wouldn't duct tape anything. It doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So the kid was kit clearly, and I think I think the police may have been right. There was probably chloroform involved, duct tape over the mouth to keep the the girl quiet. Who knows exactly how she died? Maybe it was suffocation because of the duct tape. Maybe it was heat inside the trunk. It's Florida in in the summer.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Who knows?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Well, we know who knows, but she's never gonna tell us.
SPEAKER_01Right, exactly. Fuck that bitch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she uh she deserves Dexter to go find her.
SPEAKER_01She does.
SPEAKER_00She really does.
SPEAKER_01Or to, you know, live in the public hatred.
SPEAKER_00Which she's been doing, and she's trying hard. Like this whole TikTok thing. I'm I haven't looked it up because I don't use TikTok, but I'm curious if she's actually- I don't care where we were hearing about it, but yeah, I don't use it either. Yeah, I'm curious to see if she's actually trying to, you know, make use of this platform or or what's happened. I'm sure she's just gotten trolled the fuck out of, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01Right, and probably eventually got like mass reported and and taken off the platform. That's how those things usually go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Which reminds which makes me think of that. Um, do you do you have you been paying attention to the DoorDash girl from TikTok?
SPEAKER_01No, because I don't have TikTok. I I didn't hear anything because I'm like, uh Well, again, I don't use it. You don't have TikTok.
SPEAKER_00I don't use it either, but I watch certain videos on YouTube. And uh so this woman, this woman, uh, when she was a DoorDash driver and she goes to deliver food to a house. She gets there, and there's a man, the guy's door is open, and the instructions were to leave the food on the porch, right? But the door was open. So she looks in and the guy's sleeping on the couch with no pants on. So she videotapes him and posts it on social media.
SPEAKER_01That's not a good idea.
SPEAKER_00She's like, look, look at this, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was. And then later, when DoorDash and TikTok held her accountable by, you know, one removing her from being able to deliver and banning her account, she then I don't know if she created another account or what she did, but she then went on social media claiming that she was a victim of sexual assault.
SPEAKER_01Oh, what a stupid bitch.
SPEAKER_00And that they that nobody sexually assaulted him. Correct. Well, here's the thing so after all this blows up, because eventually the police are called and all this other shit, she's now been indicted for what she did to this sleeping man. Because he was in the privacy of his own home. He had fallen asleep, she had no right to not only videotape him, but not to post it publicly. So she's fucked, she's being charged, and it's amazing. You should look it up. Trust me, yeah, look up her videos because some of them, like when she's first being held accountable by TikTok and DoorDash, she is out of her mind. She's screaming, I'm the victim here. It's fucking nuts. And now, and the best part was when she went into court, she requested that there be no video recordings while she was on trial.
SPEAKER_01Oh, what a fucking bitch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you'll have to check it out. It's it's amusing.
SPEAKER_01It's an You'll have to check it out. Maybe, you know, I mean I should see things before I decide someone's guilt, but also like if this person said drop it on the porch, drop it. Drop it on the porch. Why are you voluntarily going into someone's house? That's dangerous. Where is your self-preservation instinct?
SPEAKER_00Well, she didn't go into the house, but she recorded what she could see from the door. You know what I mean? Like she stood on the table.
SPEAKER_01I guess in a way that could be indecent exposure on his part.
SPEAKER_00Right, and that's like and that's what her argument became. She tried to claim that he knew she was coming, therefore he left the door open and laid there exposed on purpose. It was her initial argument.
SPEAKER_01But then there's no reason she would have posted it. She should have taken that recording and said, hey, like, gone to the police. Right, and that's not a DoorDash service to be like banned this guy.
SPEAKER_00And that's exactly what is being she's being held accountable for now. Because had she gone the that route, she'd not be in any trouble at all.
SPEAKER_01But exactly.
SPEAKER_00She posted it publicly because she knew she would get it.
SPEAKER_01Unless she wanted to humiliate him.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Crazy. Anyway, after that long outro, thank you everybody for joining us. Once again, I'm Janice Dead.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Joyce Dead.
SPEAKER_00And we'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_01Bye.