Episode 177: Molly MacLaren

 In this episode Janus and Joyous discuss the unfortunate murder of Molly MacLaren, who only wanted to end a bad relationship and found out the hard way that it was the wrong type of guy to end things with.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Unsung Murder Ballads is a true crime podcast, and as such, we will be discussing topics that are disturbing, graphic, and often violent in nature. So this is not for children under the age of 13.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

But you know this because you did start playing this episode. So here are some things you might not know about us.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

We are going to be critical of mistakes made by both criminals and law enforcement.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

We're going to express our views on things that you might not always agree with.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We will occasionally go on an off-topic tangent.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

And we're going to use dark humor to express ourselves now and then.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

So if you're easily triggered, this might not be the podcast for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

However, if this is your cup of tea, then raise your pinky finger while you sip and join us for this week's horrific case, you sick bastards. And I'm Joyce Dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Alright, so we are back with another horrific episode. This one's not quite as bad, although the murder itself, I am going to say, is pretty brutal.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It's um I won't put my seatbelt on. Yeah, I'm not gonna ruin it. I'm not gonna, because I was gonna say more about it, but I'm not going to. I am gonna say, though, that this is one of those cases that should not have fucking happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Oh, so I'm gonna be mad today.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

You're gonna be mad. You're gonna be mad. This takes place in England, and I'm telling you, I don't know what it is about English cops. There's a fucking problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yikes! Fucking hate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Because this is, I think, the third or fourth case we've done in England where this exact thing has happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So I hate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah. I don't know what it is, like slow learners or something. I or I I don't know what. But yeah, this is one of those this shouldn't have happened cases.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Hate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So here's your teaser. Molly was out with friends blowing off some steam and trying to enjoy her night out. She went over to the bar and ordered some food, and that's when she saw him. He was sitting there on what appeared to be a date. She asks herself, how does she know how did he know that I was here? Was it a coincidence? When she returned to her friends, they asked if she was okay because she looked spooked. She pointed out that her ex was here and that it was nothing. That it didn't mean anything. She's just gonna enjoy her night out.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

This I know I would still be spooked. Regardless, even if it wasn't a horrible ex, I'd be spooked spooked seeing someone I hadn't seen in that long in public.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

And it's gonna be even worse when you hear the details.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Oh no. So this And I know you're gonna tell me the details.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yes, we are. This is the case of Molly McLaren. All right. I like the alliteration names. I like when they do that. It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Although I have a friend who her name is Kim, and she has named every one of her kids with the first letter K. And I'm like, I don't like that. And I know there's nothing wrong with it except that when you have a group of three, it's a problem. Three kids. Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

You know, three or more starts to be a problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Because like, how many good names can you really come up with?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Well, she was like spelling, I think one of her kids is Chloe, and it does it with a K instead of a C. You know what I mean? So it's like yeah, trying, I guess, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

No, I'm not one to judge people on how they spell their names.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

I suppose not.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I uh unfortunately I got I I got no leg to stand on, friends.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah. Alright, so Molly McLaren was born on June 26, 1994, and Cobbham in Kent, in England, obviously, to parents Joanne and Douglas. They described her as kindhearted, bubbly, and beautiful inside and out. Now, growing up, Molly had struggled with bulimia and anxiety. Later, she worked to overcome her issues and was passionate about promoting self-love, acceptance, and positivity. By 2015, Molly was studying for a degree in exercise, sports, and health education at the University of Kent.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

She joined social groups and sports clubs and went out with friends that she had made at the school. She had started a new fitness blog where she shared motivational quotes and videos of her workouts. So she's getting her shit together and she's loving life. And she's a good person.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I hate it when our stories start like this.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I swear to God, they all 90%. We should figure out how many of them start like this.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, it's most of them. This sucks. It's like things are going well for her, and I hate to see that change, but I know it will.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Right. And exactly. Because it's literally about to happen.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Cool. Awesome. Love it.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

By the summer of 2016, Molly felt she was ready to start dating. She downloaded Tinder and would eventually swipe right on 26-year-old Joshua Stimson.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Alright, we got a bit of an age gap.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Mm-hmm. Now, Stimson was from that town we've said in a previous episode, Stoke on Trent. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Stoke on Trent, famous, famous town.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Right. Famous town in a podcast that no one's heard of. Either the town or the podcast, whichever you want to do it. Now, being from there, he had recently moved just miles away from where Molly was living. Now, Stimson, like Molly, had battled with mental health issues, with his first referral to a mental health specialist being when he was just 12 years old.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Now, his parents That's a tough start, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah. And a lot of it had to do with when his parents divorced, which was around that time, and his father was given full custody of him.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

That's tough. Full custody with one parent and not having the other can be really tough.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

And it's unusual that the mother doesn't get full custody. That's not as common. I mean, the father getting full custody isn't very common, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Right. It's because they don't ask for full custody. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Probably not. But yeah, do you know that for a fact?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Oh, yeah, that's the stats. Um like actually when fathers fight for full custody, they win more often.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Oh, I didn't know that. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

They they often win, yeah. Um since they never fight for it, they don't ask for it. And for whatever reasons those are, you know, I understand. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

They might not be able to, but they actually I personally wouldn't feel comfortable taking away children from the mother, but that's just me. Unless she's like a problem, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Right, right. I guess he wouldn't want to take kids away from either parent, but divorce sucks.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Well, Stimson blamed his mother for abandoning him. So he held a lot of resentment there.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

And he would be never takes it out on women, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

You've got it. He would regularly be seen as an outpatient at the Kingsley House Mental Health Clinic in Kent, but he refused counseling for his depression.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

He was eventually prescribed antidepressants, though, but whether or not he took them all the time is a big question, Mark.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Right. Not as helpful if you don't take them all the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Right. So by 2016, he was working at a warehouse. And as far as dating went for him and to set the stage, his last relationship ended with a confrontation in which he spat in his girlfriend's face.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

That's uh not a real stand-up guy.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

No, he is not. So Molly and Stimson matched, and on July 31st, 2016, they were soon chatting regularly. They hadn't met yet, though. Twenty-four-year-old Stimson told Molly about his struggles with anxiety and depression. He even told her he suffered from bipolar disorder. And just like Molly, he was a fitness enthusiast. Molly felt a strong connection with him, and so in November of 2016, they finally met in person. And over the next few weeks, the two would spend more and more time together. Soon, Molly would tell her friends and her family that she was falling for him. But this was her first real relationship, and everyone around her saw all the red flags.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, but if it's her first real relationship, I'm not surprised she doesn't see him.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Right. And I mean, I know you're you have a stronger emotions, like your emotions are a bit more when you're a teenager, they pull you a bit harder. And here she is like totally yeah, so and she's kind of at the age where that she'll be growing out of that. But again, if it's her first relationship, I can see where it's a problem.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Totally. That's a learn from experience type thing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yep. Well, her friends felt uncomfortable around him when they met him, and he wasn't overly talkative, and he didn't seem to care to get to know any of them.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Now Molly Flip flag.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah, exactly. And Molly's parents were concerned about how much of her time and energy he was demanding. Because he had zero respect for her boundaries. If she talked if she told him she couldn't see him on a given day, he would just show up at the house anyway.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Oh, I hate that.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, he wanted her full attention. One weekend, when she had to study, he decided he was just gonna hang around her house. And after a while, he sent her a text message that read, quote, It's unfair me wasting hours of my weekend sat on your bed in silence, unquote.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Then go the fuck home, loser.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Exactly. Now Molly began to feel suffocated by him, and she sent him a message stating that she needed some space, saying, quote, we can't be with each other 24-7. I feel really pressured, unquote.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

So reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

100% reasonable. But as you can imagine, this fuckhead fired back with nothing but insults and abuse. He told her that she was taking him for granted and throwing his kindness back in his face.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

What fucking kindness, you asshole.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Right?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Is the kindness in the room with us right now?

SPEAKER_00 10:57

I'll see it. Remember that? Do you remember that game? Uh I think it was called Plague Inc. on your you could play it on your phone. You could basically created your own like biological weapon and unleashed it on the world. Do you ever and I used to name my viruses shit like kindness, so it was like kindness killed the world.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

That's the kindness in the room.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah, that's the kindness he's referring to. Well, unfortunately, Molly apologized to him, and her friends were just stunned. Because to them it was clear how badly he was manipulating her. But unfortunately, his manipulation was already more ingrained than anyone knew because he was never diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He had concocted a lot of diagnoses just as a means of getting her sympathy and her attention.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Wow, that sucks. I mean, he certainly has some diagnoses, but yeah, not the ones that she's aware of, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

So when Molly made plans with friends, Stimson would suddenly have an episode of depression that required her to cancel her plans.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Oh God, I've known these people.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yep. Everywhere Molly went, Stimson insisted on joining her. And soon he quit his job just so he could spend more time with her.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yikes. I hate it.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I can't even imagine a red flag that big.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, and then it's like it's so hard when you're put in that position, though, because it like it looks the same like from the outside as someone who's actually really struggling and like maybe actually deserves sympathy, but it's really, really hard to tell.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Right. But I don't know. For me, like there, there's a very fine, not even a fine line, a very bold line. And the moment someone tried crossing a line like that, I'd be like, you're done.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yes. And like also, there's no situation in which, okay, you're having that hard of a time. You need to be in an institution, not in my bedroom. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Exactly. Exactly. Well, Molly began telling her friends that she couldn't take it anymore. He was too demanding, too possessive, and they were arguing constantly. And after several days in a row of stimtions showing up unannounced at her ho, her house, Molly told him it was over. And he lost his shit.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

He began messaging her relentlessly, begging for another chance, saying things like, quote, please don't break up with me. I will literally beg. One chance is all I'm asking for. I will do anything, unquote.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

I'm surprised he's not threatening suicide already.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, I've always said if someone ever said that to me, I'd be like, here's the razor. Go have at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

This never happened to me, though. So uh so he implied that she was taking things the wrong way when he would get upset. He told her it was her anxiety that was the issue, that she simply wasn't happy with herself.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Oh, fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah. So basically gaslighting her into believing that their relationship issues were all in her head. Molly took him back, and at time for a time, things did seem to improve.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

I know. This poor girl.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah, she's just being so manipulated, it sucks. And knowing how this ends.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

And she's very naive to it.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, and it's not her fault.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

She doesn't even know like what he's doing. Yeah, it's not her fault at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah. So Stimson began working again, this time as an operations assistant at a window company. His co-workers said that they saw that he had two sides to him. One was bright and likable, and the other was dark, irrational, and withdrawn. And they were seeing the same patterns at work that Molly was seeing repeat themselves in their relationship.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

That tracks?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, 100%. So in April of 2017, the two of them attended a party together for Molly's aunt's 60th birthday. Throughout the night, the McLaren family watched as Stimpson stared at Molly with hate in his eyes anytime she got up and danced with someone, even her own cousins.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

He's definitely cheating on her.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Honestly, no. There's no evidence of that.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

That's still my pet theory.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Okay. I mean, there's throughout the whole thing, that never comes up. So if it is true, he kept that under complete wraps. So that's interesting. I didn't even think.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

It's just so the people who accuse you are always the people who are doing it themselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Agreed. Agreed. But uh no, it's not, it's not true to my knowledge in this case. So later that night, Molly's mother Joanne was in bed when she received a message from Molly asking her to come to their hotel room because Stimson was in a full-blown rage. When Joanne arrived to the room, she was she found a furious Stimson urging her to look at videos that he had recorded of Molly. Basically, during their arguments, he began recording and videotaping her without her knowledge in some cases, just so he would have something to use against her if he needed it.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Ugh. Fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

I can't even imagine that person. Like if I would if someone did this to my sister, like if someone showed me a video of my sister, I don't care how badly my sister might have been treating him in that video, I would beat his ass.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And they'll like use people like will use that video as like, oh look, you're actually the abuser to like gaslight the person who's actually being abused.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

It makes me think of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp a little bit. Because they were doing that where they were hiding cameras. Yeah, I remember that. So Molly was ready. Yeah, Molly was ready to break up with him. But she told her family that she wanted to give him one last chance.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

You see, they had planned a holiday, like a vacation. And even though her parents were advising her against going, she wanted to go. And she said maybe on this holiday. She said maybe on this holiday they could work out their issues.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

That's not how vacations work. That's where your issues become. Issues.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And this doesn't even have to be in a relationship, which I guess friendships are a form of a relationship. But I've had I've had a vacation affect my friendships with people.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Oh, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

That's sink or swim type shit.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Exactly. So within one day of their vacation, Molly was messaging her parents saying that she had made a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And upon her return from that trip, Molly told her parents that she no longer had any feelings for Stimson at all. She just needed to find the right time and the right words to end things amicably.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Amicably? Oh, that's that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

She's too nice. That's her problem.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, and she just doesn't listen to true crime.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

No, no, definitely not. But yeah, her fatal flaw is that she is way too kind. So the day that she was gonna end it all came on June 17th, 2017. She made plans to go out with a f some friends to celebrate her birthday, her 23rd birthday. It was kind of a late celebration for it. For days, she and Stimson had been arguing over Messenger, but they were still a couple. And despite the fact that they had tried to put their differences aside, it obviously didn't hold. So it didn't take long that night before Stimson was in one of his moods. And this time Molly finally snapped in the middle of the club. She told him it was over. And of course, once again he lost his shit. He turned to her friends and shouted, Quote, she's finished with me, unquote. And her friends commented on the absolute look of rage on his face. Which I gotta be honest, if that happened in front of me, if one of my friends' dickhead boyfriends did that, I'd appl I would have applauded my friend for breaking up with him in that moment. I'd have been celebrating in front of him just to make it clear none of us fucking liked him. Yes. Maybe he would have attacked me and then we could have gotten some violence on him without uh anyway.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Would have been a dream.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yep. So over the next few days, he continued to plead with her to take him back. He became more and more aggressive, and Molly began blocking him on all social media. Stimson then publicly began posting messages designed to humiliate her. He wrote that Molly, who was, as we just said, a fit, sporty exercise enthusiast and a health student, he claimed she was abusing drugs, publicly claiming this.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

That's fucked.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

He posted some of their private messages and screenshots of conversations, and he would tag her family members in them so that they would see them. And because she had his accounts blocked, she didn't even know these messages were up there until someone else pointed them out to her. And she was fucking mortified.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah, that's really fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Now, she knew that Stimson could be vindictive, but she didn't realize how far he was ready to willing to go. So on June 20th.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

One of the things she wanted to find out, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

No, I mean who I can't imagine any of us would really sit there and think someone would take shit that far. But with that said, all you especially the young women who listen, don't send nudes to somebody until you really know who they are.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I mean, I know it's a currency for. The younger generations. I get that. But like, yeah, this guy, if this guy had nudes of her, they'd have been everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Well, really, it should be either don't send nudes unless you're okay with them being leaked.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yes, good call. Good call.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Because it happened to me once. Someone, and I don't I don't know who, but a random account popped up on Instagram with literally my nudes on them and followed me and was like.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Never got to the point of like threatening me or trying to blackmail me with it. Cause I just immediately mass reported it and got all my friends to report it, but was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

What yeah, what the fuck? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, like where where'd you get that?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Like I have I have friends who have like OnlyFans accounts, and they're always talking about how they're worried about it getting leaked, and a couple of them, their photos have leaked, and they're just like, There's nothing I can do about it. So they just like you said, they report it, try to get it taken down, and then they move on. So right.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And it was like I I I had to make a decision that I was like, you know what? I have to be okay with this having been leaked. But I also think, you know, what's the worst that could happen? I'm pretty okay with myself. I was like, what are they gonna do? Like send it to my parents as if my parents didn't see me naked the day I was born. Like, it's fine. I'm not that mad about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Well, and luckily your parents are generally pretty open-minded, so they wouldn't have held it against you anyway.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, exactly. They would just be like, Oh, I wish I didn't see that.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Right. Yeah, there's nothing you can do about it. Well, it made me think of that celebrity who someone said they were blackmailing them. They're like, give me this much money, or I have these nudes of you from that they hacked off her phone, I think. They're like, give me X amount of dollars, or I'm gonna post them publicly, and then she just turned around and be like, you know what, fuck you, and she posted them publicly herself.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Oh, who was it? It was she became super famous. She's one of those Instagram influencer types, blunt reddish hair, I think. Anyway, I can't think of her name.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I can't think of her name, but she's she's a she's I remember her name was everywhere before I even heard about that story. So, but anyway, back to poor Molly McLaren. So on June 22nd of that year, they printed everything out, all of his texts, all of his social media posts, and they went to the police. They spoke with an officer, Philpot, and with Molly and her mother present in the room, he called Stimson and he even put him on a loudspeaker, and he warned him to stop his harassment or he would face prosecution. And he ordered him to take down all the abusive posts. And Molly's mother remembered later that Stimson kept saying, I haven't done anything wrong. And then finally, and then finally, Stimson said, If you think I have, there's more to come.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Oh, I hate that. And also, like, hi, police, that's a threat.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Right? So the the police report that followed stated that while Molly was upset by Stimson's actions, they did not constitute harassment and was not a criminal offense.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah. Welcome to Jolly Old England.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Where it was like, sure, I get it. It's not a criminal offense. That doesn't mean we can't like keep an eye on this guy.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Well, think about all I mean, I know it took a lot of time for like revenge porn on the internet to be deemed a crime a criminal offense. Because the longest time the people who were posting them could get away with it because they're like, well, she sent this to me herself. She chose to send it to me.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

So, yeah. Ugh. Anyway, the next day on June 23rd, Stimson himself went to the police station to file his own complaints.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Are you serious?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

He told them that Molly was spreading rumors that he was in trouble with police and that that was damaging his reputation and his career.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

I don't think the fucking police care about defamation, brother.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Well, they advised him to cease contact with Molly and once again to remove all the offending posts that he was making.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yep, because you're the problem, dude.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Just two days later, Molly contacted the police again.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Oof.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, I can't even fathom. Stimson had posted another message, and again the incident was logged and the and passed on to the officer, Philpot. But Philpot, that particular day, he was off duty, and it was going to be days before he'd return to do anything with them. And Molly was expressing she was genuinely afraid of Stimson.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

So her family began circulating photos of him to their neighbors, asking them that if they saw him near their house, to let them know.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Oh, that's an awful thing to have to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

I can't again, I can't fathom that. On June 27th, Molly was told by police, she was contacted by police that Stimson had finally removed all those posts. Now, what nobody knew at the time that it was that a week earlier, Stimson had purchased a knife and a pickaxe from a hardware store. And he had kept them in his car.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Now he also found a way around Molly blocking him on all her social media accounts. Turns out a new account. Now a female friend of Stimson's agreed to befriend Molly across all her social media accounts and feed information back to him.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Well, fuck that bitch.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Right. Now Stimson did mislead her as to his reasons for needing this information.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Right, I'm sure he was like, I just want to get her back.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Well, yeah, exactly. But now, however, he knew everything Molly was posting. Ugh. And unfortunately, Molly being the fact, you know, being the type of person that she was, she's posting videos herself at the gym. She's making she makes her path, her pathway fairly obvious. At least to anyone who knows personal shit about her. Right. At one point, Stimson makes a tender date. And they agree to meet on this particular night. And he had a special place in mind for them to grab a drink. On June 28th.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

My favorite place, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

On June 28th, 2017, Molly had taken a selfie and posted it on Snapchat with a caption that read, Ship and Trade this Eve. Now, Ship and Trade is a pub at the Chatham docks. And she was going there to unwind with some friends. Now, they hadn't been there long when Molly got up and went over to the bar to order some food. When she came back, her friend said she looked like she had seen a ghost. And what she saw was Stimson sitting nearby with this Tinder date. Now later, he walked past their table, making sure he caught Molly's eye. Now Molly convinced herself that it was just an unlucky coincidence, but she was shaken up.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah. Valid.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

She told her friends not to worry about it, that he was just a psycho ex, but she finished her drink and she left early. Now the next day. The next day at 10 a.m., Molly was at the gym at Chatham Dockside Outlet. She had been going to the gym daily to film workout videos that she was doing as part of a new personal training course she was enrolled in. There was no one in the workout room as she pulled out her mat and began her exercises. But minutes later, Stimson arrived.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Oh my brain was like, wait, how did he get into her gym? And that's that was my brain. I go to a women's only gym.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

How did he get in there? And then I was like, oh, wait, that's not normal.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

No, it's not. You can you can see on surveillance cameras that he went up the flight of stairs to this gym two steps at a time. He looks in the door, sees her, and then turns around and goes back downstairs.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

He then turns around again and confidently walks back up and into the room as if he had meant to be there the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

She was literally mid-workout when she looks over and notices him.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Horrible. His heart absolutely sinks in your stomach.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Well, Stimson goes and he picks up an exercise mat and he started to stretch right next to her.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Oh, fuck this guy.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Molly is even able to capture him on video before going over to confront him, where she asks him if he's been following her and why he wasn't at work right then and there.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

And he told her straight up that it was none of her business. Which isn't wrong. Except the fact that he's actually stalking her, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

So she left the room to go to another part of the gym and she started sending out texts. She sends one to her mother that says, Mom, he's turned up at the gym right next to me. And her mother tells her to come straight home and to drive carefully. She then texts her friend Amy. And at 9:59 a.m., she even sent a photo of Stimson in the workout room right next to her. And both of her, the both of them, her friend Amy and her mother Joanne, are like, come home now.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yes. If not, I mean I'd be like, I'm coming to pick you up.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Right? At 11 a.m. 11 a.m. Molly wrote a reply that she thought Stimson had left the gym and that she was finally gonna go home. She packed up her equipment. Yeah. It's 11 a.m. It's broad fucking daylight.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

She packs up her equipment and walk to her car. Now Stimson had left the gym, but he did not leave the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Ugh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

He had been driving around slowly, waiting for Molly to come out.

unknown 32:54

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Once she was in her car, she did not see Stimson walking towards her car carrying a knife.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

At 11.08 a.m., Molly looked up to see Stimson jerk open her driver's side door before and before she could even put her hands up to defend herself, he started stabbing her. Oh he mercifully merci blh he merciless can't even say it, fuck it.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Mercilessly.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yes, he mercilessly stabbed Molly again and again and did not stop until he was sure she was dead. When he finished, he calmly stepped away, covered in blood, and waited by the car for police to arrive. Oh when they approached, he wiped the blood from his face and said, quote, it's me you're looking for, she's in the car, and I've killed her. Unquote.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Oh, this guy's fucking terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

This is why I don't think he was cheating on her.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yeah. Yeah, different different reasons, just insane.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right. Now, despite the best efforts of paramedics to save her, 23-year-old Molly McLaren was declared dead at the scene at 11 43 a.m. She had that's awful. She had suffered more than 75 stab wounds.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Oh, yeah, there's nothing the paramedics can do there.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

75 stab wounds. Sitting in your car, you're the front seat of your car.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

That's one hell of a barrage.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Yeah, just like 75 places to stab on a body.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

That's incre that's just like how long did it go on for?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Because even at best, one a second, that's a minute, almost a minute and a half.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

That's just crazy to me. And it is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Because this guy's fucking It is in broad fucking daylight.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Broad daylight in a public parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah. So Molly's mother and friends were devastated when they learned that the attack that they had heard about on the news was Molly.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Stimson's so heartbreaking. Stimson's trial began in January of 2018 and would focus primarily on whether or not he was in control of his faculties when he killed Molly.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

I don't give a fuck if he was in control.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I agree with you 110%. Stimson pled not guilty of murder on the grounds of diminished responsibility owing to a personality disorder.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Oh, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

According to UK law, a personality disorder is grounds for diminished responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah, like which one, though?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Because Right. Well, the defense claimed that Stimson suffered from a severe case of borderline personality disorder at the time of the murder, and that he suffered from an abnormality of functioning owing to his mental illness and the abandonment issues that stemmed from his parents' divorce.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, so like borderline personality disorder doesn't make you a murderer.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Agreed. I'm pretty sure I have one.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

That's sure it'll give you abandonment issues for sure. Um, but it doesn't make you a murderer. Shut the fuck up. I don't care if you have BPD.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Right. And he claimed that because of this personality disorder, he was he had a hypersensitivity to rejection.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

I mean, yes, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Agreed, but still, fuck you.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

That's what the personality disorder is.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Like, I don't give a fuck. Well, the problem sensitive to lots of particular things, that doesn't mean I No, fuck off. I don't understand. I don't understand when it's like, sure, it's an explanation. It's not an excuse. Why would you get diminished responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Agreed. 100% agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I don't fucking get I never understand this shit.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

You're so mad right now.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I am mad. I am mad. I mean, these are the things that makes us mad every time, but I like fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Well, the Even if the BPD made you murder, so you're a danger to society.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Agreed, and you need to be removed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Exactly. The BPD is not just gonna go away and oh, you're no longer a danger. You're just gonna kill the next person who rejects you. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Right. Well, the prosecution, obviously, like you, disagreed with Stimson, and he they said that he gave no signs of a mental disorder. They said he simply was immature, vain, and had narcissistic traits, and showed zero remorse for killing Molly.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

It took the jury less than four hours to come back with their verdict and found him guilty of murder.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Good. Murder in the first degree?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

I believe so. I don't know how it works in England, but.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Oh, true, they might not have that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

At his sentencing hearing, Judge Adele Williams said Stimson didn't have a personality disorder, just an issue with women. Which is awesome. Which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

That tracks.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Now the trial revealed that Joshua Stimson had a history of this type of behavior. Two of his ex-girlfriends came forward and recounted their own experiences with Stimson.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Now I say ex-girlfriends, one of them I don't think quite qualifies, but whatever, whatever. Two other women, right? There was Lee Hubbard. She had met Stimson on a night out at a bar in 2016. The pair had hit it off and met up several times in the days that followed. One night, Lee told Stimson she was going to a bachelorette party, and he asked her if she would be talking to any boys while she was out.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

I hate these people so much. I mean, this men like this. Right. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Well, that question obviously struck her as odd as they had just met and they weren't even exclusive, and he was already behaving this way. A few days later, Lee was visiting her grandmother for her grandmother's birthday, and her phone began blowing up with calls and texts from Stimpson, accusing her of lying about where she was.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Oh my, and she's literally at her grandmother's.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Right. So with the red flags everywhere, Lee ended things with him that same day.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

However, a few nights later she woke up at 2 a.m. to find him sitting in her house.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Ah, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

He told her that he had been out of town and he just needed someplace to charge his phone.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Nope, you broke into my house. Fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

The next day she messaged him and told him if he ever did that again, she would call the police. And Stimson never went over there again. Instead, Lee began noticing him wherever she went. He was kind of just there watching her.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Oh, that's so scary.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

And things came to a head between the two of them when he spit a drink in her face at a bar and he had to be ref uh forcefully removed from the venue. Ugh. And unfortunately, it seemed that he'd finally decided to move on because that's right around the time he met Molly.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Now another incident that happened, another woman that came forward at the court hearings, happened in 2013. And that was Alexandra Dale. And she had gone out on a date with him after they met on Tinder. After their date, she politely told him that she didn't feel that there was a connection between the two of them. She figured she would just be upfront and honest with him, and that would be the last time she would ever see him. She was shocked when Stimpson bombarded her phone with calls and messages threatening her.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Typical. I mean, yeah, this is who he is.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Right. He was tell he would tell her that he was gonna fly out to wherever she was and drown her. Whoa. He later sent a picture of the garden in the back of her home, despite the fact that she had never told him where she lived.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

He messaged her once and said, Hey, there's a surprise waiting for you when you get home, and she came home to find that the tires on her car were slashed.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Jesus fucking Christ.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

When she returned from a vacation, Stimson began showing up everywhere she went out. He openly followed her around, taking pictures of her, and then sending those photos to her, calling her a slut for what she was wearing.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Fuck off.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Alexander reported the stocking and harassment to police three different times throughout that year, stating that she feared for her safety. However, none of it was recorded as a crime by whoever took her calls.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

We gotta be taking this shit more seriously.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Absolutely. Because had they been logged properly by police when Molly was making her own reports, maybe something could have been done to protect her.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Now Alexandra.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Especially when he's already showing like violence. I mean, he's slashing tires, like that's not violence against a person, but that's he threatened to drown her.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

That in and of itself is a crime. Alexandra said she felt lucky to have escaped, and she wrote on Facebook, quote, this twisted fuck made my life hell, and the police were informed, yet did nothing about it. This poor girl did the same thing and still nothing. I can't imagine what her family are going through. Unquote.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Fuck these cops.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Telling you, England, man, um as much as I like love that country for a lot of other things, I don't think I'd ever move there.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah, I mean, it's like it's not like this kind of story is unique to England. We've we've talked about other stalker stories before.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Right, but so I just think the yeah, you know, you're right. Even here in the US, they just don't take them serious enough. But just to have the police not file them properly out there is the part. I have an issue with.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah, and I mean I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here, but fuck them. Fuck them and fuck our cops too.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Well, Judge Adele Williams told Stimson that he should never be released for the sheer wickedness of his crimes. She said, Quote, you were determined to punish her for finishing with you. You were seeking revenge. She was twenty three years old, beautiful and intelligent. Her family's grief and anguish is raw and apparent for everyone to see. You are a highly dangerous young man, and you will pose a very considerable risk to women for a very considerable period of time in the future. Unquote.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yes, true.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

I love that she called him out on it. So fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah, you're a fucking danger to society. Get the fuck out.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Stimson was sentenced to 26 years in prison, which not long enough, but it's England.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

The Kent Yep, that is fucking England, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Yep. The Kent police later invent invited an independent office to conduct an inquiry into their handling of the case and the series of failings it involved. I don't know how many times we've said that about England. Like, sure, do your post-investigation, but if you're not going to change the behavior, what the fuck's the point?

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Right. If we're using it as a corrective and preventive action, then yes, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Well But if not, if we're just saying, oh, well, this thing went wrong, if we're not changing the system, then we're not doing shit.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Well, you want to hear what the end result of all that was?

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Do I want to hear?

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Officers are now required to record stalking as a crime.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Good. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Something that happened. I mean, it was in the 80s that they made stalking a crime here in the US. So they're only 40 years behind, you know?

SPEAKER_01 46:05

That's insane. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Today, my right.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

You're right. This was literally fucking 2017. Less than 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's oh, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Fuck them. Fuck them.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Yeah, this isn't this case didn't take place in the 80s. This case isn't that old.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

No. You're right. You're right. That's so deeply fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

So today, Molly's legacy lives on through the work of the foundation that her family set up in her honor. The Molly McLaren Foundation helps fund charities that educate and raise awareness and promote support for people who, like Molly, was affected by eating disorders. And that's awesome. And that is the case of Molly McLaren.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Fuck them cops.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

I told you you're going to be so mad. There's this shouldn't still be happening.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

No. Like I just wouldn't be able to break up with someone without being murdered. Like I dare say. Right? It's this crazy thing that like maybe men should get a grip.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

You know, I and don't get me wrong, like I understand being angry after a breakup. I get it. It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

But you don't kill somebody over it.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

This whole the whole mentality of if I can't have you, no one can. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Right? It's like you need to more quickly move through the stages of grief and get to the point of fuck you. Oh, you uh go get someone else. They'll hate you too. Fuck you.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

I think, and I and I I don't know that it's worse now than it was decades in the past. I don't, right? I don't know the stats on that. But like I just know that generally if children learn, and I'm saying this, you gotta learn this as a child, right? That life's not fair, and sometimes something that's yours is taken away from you.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Then you you have better coping mechanisms.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah. Like what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 48:11

This entitlement and this world, it just blows me away.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Yeah. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Yeah. Telling you. See, I I I knew that case was gonna get, as I said, it wasn't as long-term brutal, but that murder was awful. And it was all at once, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Fucked up knowing that like it didn't have to be like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

I I'm now imagining if I was in that parking lot, would I have recognized what was happening in time to do anything? And I don't think so.

unknown 48:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I don't even know if she had time to like scream.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

I mean, maybe a little bit before like she might have gotten some noises out before because he was going 75 times.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

But like, unless I unless someone had seen him coming with the knife, there was no time for anyone to do anything. And even if you tried, you'd have to come at them from the one angle you could get there from. Because I'm assuming the car door is blocking at least one direction, right? So, yeah, and then what are you gonna do? Pull a guy who's stabbing like that off somebody? Like, I can't even imagine having the courage to try. Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

I mean, you're signing up to get stabbed at least once.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

At least once. Because that realistically, if you're gonna get in a knife fight, you need to prepare yourself that you're gonna get cut, right? That's just how that goes. And if it's a guy doing shit like that, that's like trying to break up two fighting dogs. And I'm not saying she's doing anything back, but the way he's going like that, it's like a machine. It's like a machine.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Yeah, fucking terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

It's like sticking your hand in a cuisine art.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Fucking crazy. Anyway, I'm glad this guy, I mean, like he's I know he's going to get out someday. Eventually, 26 years will pass. But maybe he'll get killed in prison. That'd be so much, much better. Much more poetic justice.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Yeah. But yeah, so that is the hopefully someone gets to that.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Right. So thank you everyone for joining us once again. I'm Janice Dead.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

And I'm Joyce Dead.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

And we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Bye.