STEAM Spark - Think STEAM Careers, Podcast with Dr. Olufade
STEAM Spark: Think STEAM Careers Podcast with Dr. Olufade. Welcome to STEAM Sparks: The Think STEAM Career Podcast, hosted by Dr. Ayo Olufade. Our mission is to raise awareness about the importance of pursuing college and careers in STEAM fields and the positive impact they can have on BIPOC communities.
Dr. Ayo's journey, fueled by his passion for STEAM education, lies at the heart of this podcast. His experiences and meaningful conversations with guests from STEM and STEAM backgrounds inspire us to highlight the significance of STEM education and careers as sources of empowerment. We aim to better position the next generation for success.
By sharing personal stories and experiences, we hope to inspire and encourage our audience to consider STEAM careers. We are committed to promoting diversity and representation of BIPOC communities in the STEM field, breaking stereotypes, and fostering an inclusive environment where everyone's unique perspective is valued.
Join us as we explore the endless possibilities and opportunities in STEAM fields. With your participation and support, let's work together to shape a brighter future for all.
#ThinkSTEAMCareers #BeInspired #BeAnInspiration
It is time to innovate!
Dr. Ayo Olufade, Host STEAM Sparks: Think STEAM Careers Podcast with Dr. Olufade
STEAM Spark - Think STEAM Careers, Podcast with Dr. Olufade
Catalyzing Change: Cathy Derksen’s Journey to Empowering Women Leaders in STEM
Good evening everyone. This is Dr Ayol Ufade, the host of STEAM Spartan STEAM Career Podcast podcast. I'm here today to talk about a new STEM book written by Kati Dixon. It is hot on the meal. The title of the book is Evolution of Leadership in STEM Women Catalyzing Change. I am honored to be talking with Kati herself and she's going to talk about her book.
Speaker 1:So who is Kati? Well, kati is a disruptor, a catalyst, an accelerator. She helps women reignite their lives and their business as published authors and their business as published authors. She is an internationally best-selling author. She has dedicated her work to helping women around the world to tap into their brilliance and step into the new possibility, because she believes that they owe it to themselves and to each other to create a life that fills them with genuine joy and aspiration. Her company, inspire Tenacity, was born from her desire to make life-changing tools and strategies accessible to women around the world.
Speaker 1:Life-changing tools and strategies accessible to women around the world. She created a platform for women to find their voice, share their stories and inspire each other in collaboration in book projects. She believes that sharing wisdom and experience create a ripple effect of impact. Wisdom and experience create a ripple effect of impact. She has created several book projects throughout the year that connects with the community. Current project that she's involved with is a woman creating impact in leadership in area of STEM, business and community. Inspired Tenacity offers one-on-one and a group program to help women redefine their brilliance, and they support you in stepping into the life that brings you joy and success. Build your success, build your business, expand your global network and amplify your authorities as best-selling authors. So I'm honored to have Katie Dixon on STEAM Spark Think STEAM Career Podcast. Kati, welcome. How have you been, ma'am?
Speaker 2:I'm good, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Did I miss anything? Did I do justice?
Speaker 2:You did a great job, covering a lot of ground there.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. So I got off work. I didn't get to use my cell phones at work, so I wait until after work. So I looked on LinkedIn and here, you know, I saw you know a post that said that you're an international best selling author in United States and Canada. I believe the last time you made it also in Australia. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:No, it's exciting. I always love having a new book come to life and set out into the world. It's exciting to see different people getting different stories. So the book is a multi-author book. There's 20 women from around the world each writing one chapter. So in the book we've got women from Australia, canada, us and lots of others cheering us on. So it's neat to get that international perspective. So we are excited to hit that number one international bestseller status.
Speaker 1:Congratulations again. International bestseller status Congratulations again. I cannot wait to hear you talk about your book and your collaboration with women all around the world. So you write books on STEM. How did you start this journey?
Speaker 2:Well, the first part of my journey is why I'm connected with women in STEM and my original career was actually in medical genetics. So I spent 25 years mainly in hospital labs and public education, diagnosing human diseases and disorders through genetic analysis. So that was my first career and that's one of the reasons why I continue to create projects that are specifically for women in STEM and STEAM. And and yes, and if you'd asked me back then if I was going to get involved in publishing and writing, I I probably would have laughed at you because it was not something that was on my career path, that my plan that I would have set out in the past. But but I definitely in the last few years I've really kind of followed my intuition and my just that, knowing that I wanted to do something really unique that would really help women step into new opportunities and possibilities. And and here we are, the books is my way of doing that.
Speaker 1:Wow, wonderful, wonderful. So what personal experience motivated you to focus on women empowerment in STEM, and how has your journey shaped the message of your book?
Speaker 2:Well, I think one of the experiences of mine that's really kind of brought me here when I one of the reasons that I left working in STEM was really around leadership and management within the environment I was working in and it was a very negative environment.
Speaker 2:Many of us left the workplace because it was such a toxic place to be. Many of us left the workplace because it was such a toxic place to be and so, looking back on it, I see how it could have been so different Just with that change in leadership. And since I've been an entrepreneur, I've had the opportunity of meeting a lot of different women in different fields and really bringing on different approaches to leadership and seeing how things can be done completely differently. And that's one of the reasons I really got inspired to create this book was so that we can really spotlight different women in different fields and different parts of the world who are standing up and taking on leadership in different ways. And I think it really helps to inspire both other women who are currently working in STEM but also the younger generation who is just coming up to help them see, you know, to see women who are supporting each other, that are working together, that are encouraging each other, because really that's where we need to go.
Speaker 1:We need to go to this place where we are all just lifting and encouraging and supporting each other yeah, it must be really tough for women out there in the leadership or even in STEM, knowing that that field is really dominated by men. So you've had a first-hand. Is there one particular experience that stand out to you and what did you do? Or, looking back, what do you feel that you should have done or you could have done? Hoping that this can be an inspiring you know advice to women that may be listening.
Speaker 2:And that would have been.
Speaker 2:I guess it was almost about 14 years ago when I left working in the in that field and, and I would say at that point in my career, the system that I worked in, where those of us that were the worker bees, where they didn't have the authority or the power to challenge you know somebody who was in a management position of you know, of you know, this isn't the right way to do this, or can we make a change. I really felt that there was nothing I could do and that I didn't have the power to make a change, and that was one of the reasons that I left and now, looking back on it, so if I'd known then what I know now, I definitely would have, you know, tried some different things and approached different people that might have been able to, you know, intervene or, you know, be some kind of a collaborate in some way to bring change. But at that point I really felt there was nothing I could do to change that environment and my only option was to leave and get myself out of it.
Speaker 1:I understand. Do you feel things have changed? Comparable to 14 years ago?
Speaker 2:Well, I know that I've definitely changed, so I would definitely approach that situation differently. The funny thing is, I still know some people that are still working there.
Speaker 1:Going through the same experience.
Speaker 2:Have improved a bit, but are still very toxic, and it breaks my heart to see women continuing to work in environments that are damaging their physical health. Their mental health. Their joy of life is being sapped because of that work environment. So I think that's the things that we really need to be focused on supporting each other in creating those safe spaces Women can actually stand up and say you know, this is not the way this needs to happen. All of the members of the staff really needs to be taken into consideration. So those are some of the things that we're trying to change and really, you know, spotlight.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. So what inspired you to collaborate with women all across the world to write your new book Evolution of Leadership in STEM Women Catalyzing Change?
Speaker 2:There's also a common thread, there's a common story behind so many of those, and this book is actually the second book in the series. The first one was Women Transforming the Landscape of Science and Tech, and that was on a very similar idea of women around the world sharing their story, sharing their journey, sharing the challenges they've come through, perhaps some of the solutions or examples of collaboration and mentorship and just really supporting each other that we can now bring to the rest of the community again. I find stories in general are such an amazing way to learn and to be inspired by each other and to find role models.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your answer reminds me of a recent conversation. One of the reasons why he encourages people to write books is because of people sharing their stories. I don't think he'll mind me mentioning his last name, because that's good for business too. His name is Jay Pasqua. So he's a storyteller, so he writes. You know stories, a storyteller, so he writes. You know stories. By writing your stories especially different people writing the stories you get to share your perspective and you end up finding out that you have things in common. So we focus on the things that bind us together rather than the things that you things that divide us. Women go through a lot of bias right. There are a lot of barriers in the way of women in leadership and even progressing and prospering in the STEM field. So women sharing their ideas I think it's a brilliant idea of finding the things that they have in common. I really commend you on that. Let's do a little icebreaker. If you were to have a dinner with any scientists in history or today, who will it be and why?
Speaker 2:that's a very good question.
Speaker 2:There are so many and I would say some of the scientists that I'd like to hang out with are the women who have been involved in the studying genomics.
Speaker 2:Okay, one of the things I miss about working in that field is I used to work in a group that was really cutting edge of all these new genomics projects that were going on and the collaborations and the new ideas I just loved being in a room with these people were so brilliant and just so creative.
Speaker 2:And how can we take this technology and this information that we have and apply it to all these different fields? So when I used to work in genetics and genomics, that was right when the Human Genome Project was coming out and there was the cloning of Dolly the sheep and all these other big things going on in that field, and it was just amazing how, as the technology and the understanding rolled out, now there's this whole way of applying it to winemaking, forestry, agriculture, like pretty much everything, even things like mining. Who thinks of anything biological in mining? But now they're creating bacteria that can actually clean up mine spills and mine sites and that sort of thing. So definitely the women that were working on some of those projects and the brilliant minds that really created some of those opportunities would be a great group to have dinner with, yeah excellent.
Speaker 1:One of the things that inspired me to pursue my master's in biotechnology was the very thing that you said, so I got my master's from Hopkins 2003. Now I'm really dating myself in biotechnology.
Speaker 2:Before you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was inspired by giants in genomics back then. So your humble beginning, let's talk about your humble beginning. Let's talk about your humble beginning. So what sparked your initial interest in science and eventually STEM?
Speaker 2:Well, I always like to say that I've been a biologist since the age of three. Wow, so since the earliest age that I can remember that I decided what I was interested in and what I wanted to do next. It definitely always had something to do with living things. I would come home and I would have pockets full of worms. I would collect snails. Later it would be snakes and frogs and all kinds of other things, and pretty much all of my childhood my bedroom was a zoo. Wow. I would have little terrariums and jars and things with all these different creatures in it and collecting caterpillars caterpillars going into their cocoon and turning into moths and butterflies. I would collect frog eggs or tadpoles and look after them until they became frogs, and so I was always fascinated with biology. So, so I guess it was no surprise when that was where I continued in my studies, when I went to university and and then found a career path wow, wow, uh.
Speaker 1:Your parents, uh, how did they feel about you?
Speaker 2:they just got used to it. What's she bringing home now? I just got used to it.
Speaker 1:What's she bringing home now? So I guess there's a moral to all of this For the parents who are out there. If your child, you know, display any one of these characteristics, please encourage. With the exception of the snakes, I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:Characteristics please encourage. With the exception of the snakes, spiders are the one thing I cannot do. I've tried to be curious about spiders, but no, I cannot deal with spiders, sorry.
Speaker 1:I understand Many of us probably cannot deal with spiders, but you know what it sparks an interest, your, your curiosity, and here we are today and thanks to the support of your parents, who never discouraged you, uh, that helps a lot, uh. So thank you so much for sharing that. It's really good to be talking to uh with someone who is famous. Our parents and our audience out there they get to hear from you and hopefully this will inspire them to support their daughters and sons too let's not forget sons. So the collaboration and storytelling your book featured 20 different women sharing their stories. What surprised you the most about the diversity and the commonality of the experience in STEM leadership?
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that surprised me the most was how severe some of the cases, like the negative side of the treatment that women were getting in different environments. How bad it was and still is. These stories are recent stories with, you know, really sexual. Just talking down to people, literally telling them that we don't want to hear what you have to say, and you're treating people in in a negative, harassing way and that's the normal, like that is the normal environment some of these women had to work in every day and they were just expected to put up with it.
Speaker 2:And again, you know, if this was back in the 60s or something before we started having these conversations, I could, I could, you know, see that. But in this day and age we like to think we've come a lot farther than that and to imagine this whole workplace just taking that kind of behavior as well. This is just the way it is. Get used to it like. To me, that was the biggest eye openers, because that was definitely far and beyond, far worse than what I ever had to put up with and yeah, so. So I think that was one of the things I was most surprised about some of the stories and the idea that we like to feel like we have come a long way.
Speaker 1:yeah as far as what I'm saying inclusion goes and you know pay equity and those sorts of things, but.
Speaker 2:But the reality is that things have actually gone backwards, especially since COVID. Yes, there seemed to have actually been a turnaround in the pay scales and even today, I think the numbers they're saying is, women make 83 cents on the dollar against what men make doing pretty much the same job.
Speaker 2:And how do we explain that? How do we say that's okay? And actually one of the women in the group was we were on a Zoom call this morning and she was saying that she wanted to go to a conference and one of the guys organizing the conference, she brought that up to him. She said you know what, given the fact that most of these women, it's harder for them to afford to come to these conferences because of this difference in their income, and he actually acknowledged it and gave a discount to the women coming into the group.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:You know amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh, he is innovative, exactly.
Speaker 2:That was so cool, but, yeah, so to me, I think that's been some of the shocking part to realize that a lot of this is still going on, and so that it really does. You know the need for us to stand up and be you know, have that voice, and to know that we are supported by a community of other men and women who are saying this is not okay, we're not putting up with this. All of this needs to change. I think we just need to get these voices supported and lifted and really bring change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're absolutely correct, and it's a shame that women have to endure and go through this experience in the 21st century, for God's sake. I mean, you tend to think that we have innovate, but that's terrible, terrible. I know that this kind of behavior is all over the world, but is there a degree to this pattern of behavior based on your book? Where do you think there is more, harsher experience?
Speaker 2:the most negative stories. I have have been in the states. Okay, you know I was really interested. A group in Australia was telling me how there's a lot of different rules and things that have come in over there. That seems like they've come a lot, a lot farther than the North Americans have and and it seems that, like, definitely women in engineering and I think those are a couple of areas where it sounds like it still is very, I guess, more just sexist and that's just taken as the way it is and we're not going to change but we're bringing change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amen, amen, amen to that, amen, amen. I want to say amen to that. So, global perspective Did you notice any cultural difference in women's challenges and leadership style in STEM?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure I could really speak to that. As far as the different cultural groups I know we've had, there's a couple of the ladies are from India and they definitely have a. You know, just the way they're brought up and how women are seen in those cultures is definitely a would bring a different shift in their leadership style. A different shift in their leadership style, and parts of it was them talking about the expectations of them, you know, in getting married and that their career wouldn't necessarily be the first thing that they needed to have. Their family and their husband is, you know, more important and that sort of thing. And and again, standing up and challenging that that's, you know them as individuals would be able to set their career path and their life choices and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so there's a low representation of women, African-American women and Hispanic in STEAM. And then leadership. I'm a little bit surprised by that. Does that surprise you? I mean, I will expect that you will see more of that issue in other countries, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I like to think that it is changing and that we are gaining momentum in those areas and I would say there's definitely more visibility around the issue. So I think that's quite often where change starts. We have to make it a visible reality that the people around us can see and then from there move forward. So I I would say that there is some positive change over the decades, but definitely a lot more work to do so, uh, so you mentioned positive change, some some changes happening idea.
Speaker 1:What are some of the changes that you have noticed, uh, based on, you know, the compilations of thoughts, uh, in this book? Uh, are there some changes? That is pretty obvious. That will jump out that you, that the audience, the readers will say I never thought about that.
Speaker 2:I'll say, one of the changes that has become more and more clear is that a lot of women now are leaving their typical corporate workspace to start their own business. Oh wow, that they are going to recreate a workplace in a way that is inclusive, you know more, based on collaboration and mentorship and and and supporting everybody. As you know, valuable people in the team and and that's one of the things that I've really noticed that that women are are leaving to do that completely. So that idea of we need to have a seat at the table is changing and now we we are just we're creating our own table and starting a new conversation that is good the things that I've seen, yeah that is really really good.
Speaker 1:Whoa, I don't know. Oh my goodness, so they're turning the table around, so this is good stuff yeah yeah, that is good stuff. So what are some reoccurring challenges that women still face, uh, in still leadership role, and how have women that have been part of this book overcome them?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would say a lot of the overcoming has been through having a mentor. Yeah, and and that's one of the challenges they've often had too is that there haven't been other women mentors in their role that they could lean on. So really it's been around finding men who are allies and you know, understanding and see the problem, that are willing to take them on and mentor them, and and the other side of mentorship is the idea of sponsorship. So not only are you with that person and helping and coaching them, but you're actually standing up for them in the workplace in you, in a meeting that involves respecting people's ideas and decisions, or stepping in where there are decisions being made around, who's getting hired for different things. To have someone who's your sponsor, who is literally standing up and speaking up for you and saying this person would be a great candidate. This is someone that we need to look at and I think that's another kind of newer strategy that's really been encouraged?
Speaker 1:Okay, I was going to ask you this question but I wanted to stay with the script, but I think it's a good time to ask. You mentioned men allying with men. Is there things that men can do to help women, you know, in terms of empowerment, in terms of leadership role and encouragement? Any thoughts on that? Or the fellow authors? Do they offer any ideas, any insights?
Speaker 2:authors. Do they offer any ideas, any insights? Definitely, and I think you know so many of them have examples of men that have been like either in their academic careers or in the workplace, who are men who agree that this current situation in a lot of places is wrong and behaviors there have been wrong, and they are standing with them and they are supporting them in these ways and mentoring them and sponsoring them in these different environments. So I mean, I mean, none of us want to say that every man out there is the problem. We're saying that the system needs to change and that the accepted culture in a lot of places has changed.
Speaker 2:So I think one of the things that a lot of men can do is, when they see things happening that they also know are wrong and shouldn't be happening, to actually speak up, stand with that woman and say, okay, you know, can you guys not talk to her like that? Or can you guys not, you know, disrespect her? Can you just please treat her like another person who is equally educated, equally experienced, whose voice is equally as valuable as anybody else? And that's the whole thing, right? It's about acknowledging that we are all people and we all go through the same education process. We all go through the same training. We would treat one group as different from another group when really we can add it with all the same skills and knowledge and experience. And so so that really is it to just speak up when you see things are not being done the way they really should be thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1:So is there anything else about your book that you want people to really know or that you want to share?
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, no, it's definitely pick it up, give it a read. So many inspiring stories, so many great examples of amazing things going on in the world. And, yeah, we've got everything from cybersecurity, aerospace, aviation, engineering, nursing there's a whole range of different fields involved in that. And, just so that everybody knows, we've also got another book coming out. We're just getting started now, so bringing together another 20 women from around the world in many different fields and age groups, and all of that. So if anyone is interested in jumping into our next book, then it's going to be an exciting one. It's called Women in STEAM.
Speaker 1:Oh, nice, that is good.
Speaker 2:Yes, we're incorporating the newer ideas of having arts incorporated as science, and I kind of like that idea too with STEAM, because it's very true that there really isn't any science out there that hasn't required creativity.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Artistic skills yes, and even back when I used to work in the lab doing my genetic analysis yes. We would say that this is an art more than it's a science.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, to really make it work and to get the results that we need accurately, and so so I think STEAM is a very accurate term to incorporate everything that's involved in these fields. So so, yes, I'd love anyone that's interested to connect with me, and it will be a fun book to be involved in.
Speaker 1:Excellent, I think I have a couple of names that I would like to send your way. Perfect, I will ask them first before I, you know, say anything to you. Is there any advice that you would like to share with the young women that are coming along, who, I mean, may be intimidated because there is something that is called imposter syndrome and cross-sectionality? You know all of that. You know playing in people's mind. Any thoughts that you want to share?
Speaker 2:Definitely, my advice to the younger women would be to find a mentor, to find somebody that's in a field that you connect with, and that's one of the great things now with, I think LinkedIn is a great way to meet different people, connect with them, ask questions and don't be shy. Most people want to share their knowledge, they want to be encouraging, they want to support new people coming up behind them. So so, yeah, so decide what you're passionate about, decide what you're interested in and and check it out. Talk to people, get a feel for whether that kind of job would be a good fit for you, or chances are there are types of jobs and feels that you've never even heard of before that you would love. So talk to people, learn as much as you can and don't be shy.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Congratulations again on your book, your recent book. I would like to encourage everybody to please go out by Evolution of Leadership in STEM. Her next book is going to be on Steam Women Catalyzing Change. Thank you so much, cathy, for taking the time to talk to us about your book and I'll be following up. I hope when you release your next book, you'll come and talk to us again.
Speaker 2:Oh, perfect. Yes, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Have a very good evening. Thank you, ma'am.
