Chulin 32

Daf Yomi

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's Khulindaf Lamid Bez, and we're gonna start by the Mishnah where we left off on the top, towards the top of Lamid Baze and Alfred. So we're dealing with right now the sugiyyah of Shehia. Shia we know is one of the Psulim Allah Shemissina, and basically, long story short, it means you waited too long. You stopped in the middle of your shita and you waited a little bit more than the amount of time that would possible the animal because of Shia, you have a problem. Now all these cases we're gonna say in the Mishnah, the psaul is gonna be Shia that you waited in between. Like nafla sakin, if the sakan in the middle of your shit, you drop the knife, Vigbiya, then you picked it up. Or naflu ka vigbiyan, your clothing fell off, and then you picked up your clothing. The point over here is the same that you stopped in the middle of your shita, then you continued only once you picked up the knife, only once you picked up your kailim. Hishchiz is a sasakin, or you stopped to sharpen the knife. The off, and you got tired. You got tired from sharpening the knife, and bha khadirib shakat, and you didn't have any more kayak to finish the shit yourself, so your friend came and finished the shita. So in all these cases, imsha kadesh kita psulah. If you waited, kideshita, if the amount of time that you waited in between your shit is kidesh kitah the amount of time it takes to do a shita, we're gonna see what that means. Psula, it's gonna be possible. Shimon Bshiman says, Imsha kadei bikr, that the time, the amount of time of Shia is if you waited Kide bikr, the amount of time it takes to check the knife, that would be the time that's gonna passel because of Shia, and that is the Mishnah. Says the Gemar. My Kideshkita. So we said, what's the Shir of Shihiah? How long do you have to wait to passle it? Kidesh kitah the amount of time that it takes to shacht. Says the Gemar. So what does that mean? So Umar Rab, Rab says, Kideshita's behema acharest. It means to shacht a whole nother behema. The amount of time it would take to shecht another behema, that's if you waited that amount of time in the middle of your shritah for this behemah that's gonna passle because of Shia. I'm in the Rifkana, Rabasi the Rav, Rahman and Rasi said to Rav, Kade shrita's behema the behema, the oif la oif, oy dilma ach behema la oif. What do we mean when Rab said, Rav said over the salah, what does it mean? Kate shak the behemaharis. The amount of time that it takes to passel because of Shia is if you wait the amount of time it takes to shech the behema. Does that mean that that amount of time is across the board? It doesn't matter what you're shafting, an oif or a behema? Meaning we're gonna say, even when you're shafting in oif and you stop in the middle, how long is it gonna be possible to the pso of shia the amount of time that it takes to shaft the behema, which you can understand is a longer amount of time. So do we mean for each one independently that behama the behema and oif the oif, that as relates to the psol shia for a behema, it's the amount of time that it takes to shift another behema. As it relates to the amount as it relates to the psol of shiaf for an oif, it's the amount of time that it takes to shaft another oif. So it's each one respectively, or a filu a filu uh behama theif. Or do we mean that even when you're shafting an if and you stop in the middle, how long do you have to stop the postulate the amount of time that it takes to shaft the behema? It's more cal, you have a lot more time. So what did you mean, Rav? So says Rab back. Rav said back to his Tamidem Rufkan and Rabasi that Loyabah Biddin Khabe Bhavivi di Shile. That I learned this a lot from Habibi. Habibi for uh Rav, we know it was Ribhiya, Rabhiya's uncle. So he said, I wasn't really in a good matzeb over there to ask Ribhiya this question. Rashi says, that I didn't have the Gasus the uh what's it called? Rashi said, I wasn't uh brazen enough to ask him. Why? Because he wasn't so uh happy with me at the time that he was teaching me the salakha, and therefore uh I didn't end up asking him this question, and I don't have an answer for you. So it says the Gemara, this is actually a mechloikis between Rav and Shmuel. So Amar Rav. Meaning Rav said, I didn't know what Khabib said. Meaning when I learned this a lot from Remkhiya, I didn't hear it from him, but I guess Rav knows himself because Rav says uh the shit tasi at least, according to what I hold, Amar Rav, it's Mar. We'll sort of like this we see otherwise Amarav kada shit is behemoth of behema, the iifla'i. Uh shmual amarfila behama la'if. This machukess. Rav said you want to know what the amount of time for the psaul of shia is. If you're dealing with a behema, it's the amount of time it takes to shaft another behema. If you're dealing with a knife, it's the amount of time that you shaft an iif, not another behema. If you take the amount of time in between a knife and a behema, it's gonna be possible. It's gonna be over the amount of time that it takes to shafta the knife. Whereas Shmuel says, no, a file behama la'aif. Even as it relates to the psul of Shia by an if, you know you want to know how long you add the amount of time that it takes to shacht a whole nother behema. Even if you're dealing with a knife, which is a short amount of time. That was the machegis Rab and Shmu. Also, when Robin came from Aireth Sasha, he quoted in the name of the great Amaira from Arabiakan, that Afilu behama lauif. Rabbiachan held like Shmua, that even behama la'if, even as a relates to Shia for an if, it's going to be the amount of time that it takes to shach the behema. Ribchanina Uribchanina argues on Rabbi's. And he says, You want to know what the amount of time a Shia is, it's the amount of time that it takes to go get another animal and shachta. So not only to shecht another animal, to go get it and sheched it. So it says the Gemara Vishit. Says the Gemara Yahvih really means that to take it to go get it from where it is? A filum'a? Well, that depends, right? It depends where it is. Maybe it's an hour away, maybe it's right here, maybe it's two seconds away. So, and if so, if so, that there's no clarity on this nasata dvarakh ishurin. You can't say such a shear because it's a relative shear. It depends how far the animal is. It's Tully and Metsias. You can't be in Asati, you can't be nice in your Dvarachalishurin, which is gonna make the shear relative according to how far the behema is. That doesn't make any sense. We need one cut shear, and therefore that doesn't make that that's that's not what it means. Um explains, I medis lahatil ikame in. Now you want to know what he meant? Oymedis lahatil. Now when it was far away, you're right. When it was far away, that's not what we're talking about. And we're not gonna wait for you an hour to go get your behema and tell you that the full shio is an hour long. But that's not what we mean. But rather, we're talking about Imedis Lahatil, where it's mamish right there, it's right there in front of you. What did he mean when he said, Ribchanina? What did he mean when he said that uh the amount of she the amount of time for Shia is to go get the animal and shaft it? He means when it's in front of you, you pick it up and you shafted. So that extra amount, a few seconds, whatever it is, to pick up the behemah and shafted, that's what he holds. That's the gibbana, that's the mini between Rabbichan and Khanina Rabiachan's gonna hold. No, only the amount of time that it takes to actually shaft another animal. Amri Ba'rabah they said over in Erita Mishmed Rabysi Brabechanina in the name of Ryyasibrachanina, kidesheagbiana, the arbitsen of yeshkhut. Another step. The amount of time it takes to pick it up, put it back down, yeshkh, and then shaft it. Dakile, daka vegasalagasa. And it depends. Again, what type of animal are you dealing with? So obviously it uh takes longer time to pick up a behemothasa and move it around and all that. If you pick up a big bull, it's gonna be a lot harder of a job to do it to behemadaka, a little goat. So we mean gasal dakala, daka, vigasa lagasa. It depends what you're dealing with. The amount of psul of shahiya, you want to know how long it is for a behemadaka. So this amount of time that it takes to uh pick up another behemothaka and do this whole maneuver. As it relates to behemoths, the amount of time that it takes to pick up another behemoth. So it's each one relative to itself. Omar Rabarava says, I'll shake him the sakin rah, someone someone who shafts with a bad knife. What's the point? That it's not sharp. It's not a sharp knife, it doesn't have tsul in, but it's just not a sharp knife, and therefore it takes much longer. Shech, a fidu kalayam kulak shiero. Even if it takes in the entire day to shach, these mom is going, the entire day, it's gonna be kosher. Says you are by Ravarava had a question. Shi'ois maushi it's harfun. Can different Shi'i be mitzar together. So we know there's one shear of Shihiya. We saw a different sheet, a few different sheetas over here. What is the amount of time that it takes to pass it because of Shia? What is that amount of time of Shia? We don't have a clear answer in terms of seconds, but let's say the amount was 30 seconds. Let's say the time of the psaul of Shia is 30 seconds. So what if you have a lot of different Shiyos? Each one wasn't that amount of time, each one was less. So if you have a lot of Shias, each time was five seconds, let's say. So can they meme it starif? What if you stop for five seconds, you but you stopped a hundred times? So you have a lot more than 30 seconds cumulatively, but each time on it onto its own, you don't have the required 30 seconds. So what are we gonna say? Are they gonna meme it starif to possible because of Shihiya or not? Says the Gamar, but to Shilame today. Rava came and asked this question. Why can't Rubba be Poish at the Shila from what he said himself a second ago? What did Rava say a second ago? I feel I'm kula, you have a knife, you're going the entire day, it's gonna be kosher. Now we're assuming, and the master's assuming that the entire day you must have sucked, you must have stopped for a couple of seconds many times, probably. You're going mamish the entire day. So it was probably comprised of a lot of different shias, and those shials are not gonna be mid-starf because he said it's gonna be kosher, and that's why it's not gonna be midstarf. So that's all that says the gymmark. No, you can't necessarily answer from what Rava said before because Hasamadilla is shah. I could just tell you who said that he stopped a bunch of times if he was Shachting the entire day. Maybe it was Mammish who's going at it, it was a very tough animal or whatever it was, and dull knife, and therefore he was a it was a big job the entire day. He wasn't Shah at all, even for a little bit. He was going back and forth and back and forth in Mailahu, maybe the entire day, and maybe that's the case, and therefore it wouldn't r answer Rava's second question of Shehiyo's Mao She It Starfuck can name him it starf together, a bunch of small ones, to form the required amount of time to passel. So Ravuna Ravuna asked the following question by Redar of Nasan that Shah bimitzimonim mao. What if you were shah, you did you waited, meaning the amount of time that it would take to passle, but only bimot simonim. Only when you had a mute of the simonim left. We know Rubikakula, Rubashlach Kamayo, as we learned. So therefore, all you gotta do really is Raiv. Miut is extra credit that you did. You don't have to really go through all the Simonim. So what if you did the Raiv that would render it a Kashra Shitah, but then you continued? Lifnimesh resided, and you mamesha you finished it off. That was one of the shaitas we saw in the Gemara to say that the we need to tell you that lachhiah is something you should do. But either way, maybe what what happens if you did a kashra shita, you did it, you got Raiv, and then you continued. But you did shihiyya before you finished it off. You did shiya, you waited too long, the amounts of time that it would take to passelate. Bim Miyat Simonim, but there was only a miyat left. So Mao, what are we gonna say? What are the study asha'lah? But Tadimar, on one hand, it's already a kashra shita, so I don't care what you did afterwards, right? I don't care if you were shah and then you finished it off. You did roiv of the simonim, you're good to go. It's kosher shitah. On the other hand, we could say, yeah, you did rev of the simonim, but you could have stopped there. The fact that you continued, you're mice of garea, and therefore you uh you did more. Okay, so everything is gonna be counted as this one shahitah and if you had a shihia in the middle, it's gonna be a problem. That's the sadim. And on this we're gonna say, take the we'll wait for Elion that one. Rem Shimon I'm shakade biker. So Rashima said, What's the what's the amount of time of a Shia? Imshakade biker, the amount of time that it takes to check the knife. Says the Gamar Maikadehikur, what do you mean by that? So they bikureshachum, it means to bring the knife to a chokum to check. So, and we're assuming in the maqha that uh we're assuming in what we're about to say that uh it means wherever the chhachum is. The chhaum's down the block, he's ten minutes away, an hour away. So the amount of time that it takes to bring your knife to the chhachum to go check, says Gemara, obvious question. It's not a clear-cut shear. Now sata the bakh ishurun. So you can't say such a thing. So it says, Gemara, you're right. Elegate biker taba chhacham. It means that if the Shoikhid himself was a Chacham, so the amount of time that it takes for him to check it, what does that basically mean? The amount of time that it takes to check the knife, because he's checking the knife himself. So the amount of time that it takes to check the knife, that is what Rib Shimin holds, is the shear of Shehiyah, in order to postulate. That was Mishnah number one for today. And without further ado, Mishnah number two. So that was the sugiya of Shia. Now we're gonna say discuss in a in the in this following Mishnah a machlikes about certain things. Is the animal going to be considered a nava, or is the animal going to be considered a trefa? That's gonna be the topic of the Mishnah and the Gemara afterwards. Shochar esa vesh, upasakesa gargerash. So we know you have the veshth and the gargeras, otherwise known as the kana, the two simon. So if you shachted the vesh, upasakesa gargeras, but then you were poisik the gargeras. You didn't do a proper shiita on the gargeris, but rather you did like ikur. You uh did some type of psoul, you uprooted it, and you knocked out the gargeras, but shalloyalide shita. So after you already did a kosher shkita on the first semen, the vesh, then for the second simon, it wasn't a kosher shita. You knocked it out, you did ikur, you were poisik the gargeras. Oi, or the opposite. Pasakesa gargeras, achakakh shokha sabesh. Or first you were poisik the gargeras, and after that you were shakar savesh. Then you did a good shita on the vesh. No one of the simonim. But first you knocked out the gargeras. Oi, shokad echamin, vehimtal na jhmesa. Or you only shachted one of them, only one of the simonem. It's not good enough by behemah, you need two. Only you only shachad one of them, and then you waited until it died. You didn't shach the other one. Oi, shahichlitzasakentah sashini. Or you did halada, which is like putting it under, coming from the other end. It's another soul. You went under from the second simon. The first one you did, okay. The second one you went underwards. Upaska, then you kind of ripped it out that way. So now we have a mufflac. Reb Shavavam or Nevela, Ribakiva Amartrefa. Ribbh Shav says in this case it's gonna be considered a nevela. And Ribakiva says it's gonna be considered a trefa. Now again, what's a nevela, what's a trepah? So just a little bit of basic background that we need for today. Nivela is any time that you kill an animal, Shila, Yal Y Dei Shita. If you kill it, you put a bullet in its head, it's gonna be considered a nevela. What happens if you do a shritha, but it's a shita psula? It's a nevela. That's a nevela, it comes along with Timas Navela. There are different inyodamas, different afkaminas, not for now. What's a trefa? Very simple. Trefa is something that you did a kashra shita, no problem with the shita itself. And it died al Yadei Yoshita. But it was a trefa because it had it had a different problem, it had a brain tumor, whatever it was. It had uh one of the trefas, I don't know if that's the in the Elu Trevas, but it had one of the trefahs that would render it that it wouldn't be able to live out the year if you find afterwards that it was a trepah. So if it died al Yedei Akashita, it's gonna be considered not a nevela because it could die alyed shita, but it would be still a trefa. So in this case, all these cases, is it gonna be considered a naval or a trefa? Ribishevaimer nevela, Ribikivaimer Trefa. Rebikiva says it's gonna be considered a trefa. And why, by the way, because Ribikiva's gonna tell you, because in all these cases, what do you have, Le Fahot? You have at least one simon that was shafted properly. If you have one simon that was shafted properly, although that's not good enough by a behema, because you need two, you need rubais shelshinayim, right? Even though that's not good enough by a behema, Rabakiva's gonna tell you that it's enough, one simon is enough for it not to be considered a nevela. It's enough to be might see it mean din nevela, but now it's just gonna be a trefa because the other one wasn't done right. So Ribikiva says it's a trevah, Ribisheva says it's nevela. Klaal a Ribishevah. But Ribisheva who says it's a nevela, he said a klaal. Mishum Ribishua in the name of Reshua. That callshanefsalabishkitasa nevela. Anything that became possible in its itsol came about because of the shit, it's gonna be considered a nevela. Again, anytime you kill an animal, shalloy aljede shita k shera, it's gonna be considered a nevela. So if the psoul came because of the shita, it's gonna be considered a navelah, and call shishhitasakaroi. Anytime you have a good proper shit, but there was a different problem with the animal, the posal that caused the psoul, then shrefa. Then it's gonna be considered a trefa because again, you had a proper shita and you killed an Ayadeshita, very good, so it's not gonna be considered an Avela. What is it gonna be? Because it has different psaules, it's gonna be a trefa. That's the claw that Rabishhev said in the name of Rabishua and says the Mishnah, very important in the end, the Hoyda Rabakiv. Ribekiva that argued on him before and said that this animal was actually a trefa. He went back on that. And he was Midas Ribishev that in this case, in the end of the day, it did not, its soul was Ayadeshita, and therefore it's gonna be considered an available. Even Rabakiva is minded Rabishhev in the end of the day. Says the Gemara, one thing we need, one thing we're gonna focus on right now Shakharasavesh, the hulu, the hoind of Rabakiva. So we said in the case that where you shachted the vesh, you shachhted one of them, and then you had a psol in the other one. So you had a psol, you shachted a proper shita on the veshid, and then on the gargeres, niftsika garges. You you did ekor, you did whatever it was, you you uh ripped it out from underneath, you did chalado, any of these cases. So in it, so we had a machalik's between Rakiv and Rashever. Makiva said it's a Trever, but Shav said it's gonna be in the Vela. Behold the R Makiva, and Rakivah came around and it was masking that it's actually gonna be considered in Navela. I'll ask you, uh Stirah from the following, from the Mishnah in the next parak. Elu trefus. These following, the Mishnah lists a bunch of Trefas. What are considered Trefas? Bidihema. So Mikuva Savesh, if you even have, as we learned already, a tiny nekev in the Vesht, that would be considered a Trefa. Oh, Psuka Sagargaris, and also Psuka Sagargaris, which is uprooting the Gagaris. What do we see over here? What's the point? Zakdashi Alma Trefui. Clearly, we see that Psuka Sagargaris is considered a Trefa and not an Avela. What's the problem? The problem is that since Rubakiva was Kaiser on it, and Rubakiba really holds a Kerbishaiva, but then today that Psukhas Gargaris is considered a Navela in this case. So who is that Mishnah? Who's the Mishnah of Elu Trefus? If everyone we know so far agrees, Rubishhea or Bakiva both agree that it's an Avela, who's the Mishnah of Elu Trefos that says that it's gonna be considered a Trefa? Why we're just saying that? Elu Trefus. These are considered Trefus, and one of the things are Psychukhas Agarash. It's like Amaraba. There's an obvious answer to this. You could just say that one is Aliy Deshito, one is Laudesh. We're saying Stama Trefa, right? Stama Trefefa is Psuka Zagaris. That's nothing to do with Shita. Our case was Aydesh Khita. Uh but not for now. But either way, so says Vigem. One case, our mission is dealing with where you first did the good shit on one of the Simonim on the Vesh, and then you were Pisik the Gargaras. And Khan, what's the mission of the trefa that says this the Indian is a trefa? That's Shepasak Ubside Shaha. That's if you did it before, you were Pisik the Gargaris, and then you did a shita on one of the Simonim. And then Gamar and the Gamar explains, Rob explains, Shakhanullah Bisai Pasak nifsa la Bishita. If first you did a good shita, and then you did the psikash gargeras. So the Pisol came about A'yideh Shriitah, and therefore it's an Availa. Anytime you do a bad shita, and that's what causes the Pasol, it's gonna be considered an Availa. It's like you put a bullet in its head. You didn't do a good shit, you killed it, Shallah Yal Yedei Shriita Kshaita. And therefore that, in that case, you first did the good shriita, but then a yede your shita, you were a pisik, and it was the the Pasol happened through Shriita, Nifzela Shriitah, and therefore it's gonna be considered an Ava. Whereas Apostle Bisaif Shah, if first it was nifsaika gagas, first you uh first you uprooted the gaggas, and only afterwards with the Besai F Shachat, then you shachted the other simmon properly. Kidabrach, that's as if something else caused it uh to passle because it happened before the shita. That happened before uh before the shit that you did on the other simen, and therefore it's like it had a different issue before, and that is why in the next Mishnah, Elu Trefa's in the next parak, that would be considered a Trefa. Meaning, you just said basically what what do you do to answer the Stira? We had a Stira, right? Our Mishnah seems to say, and everyone agrees, that uh Shiva or Rebekiba, even Rakivu's mind than that, that Nifsika Gargaris is uh Nivela. But in Elu Trefus it says that it's a Trefa. So what do you answer? His answer was that it depends. Our Mishnah was talking about where you first did the Shita and then it was Nifsika. But that Mishnah is talking about where it was first Nifska. Says the Gemara, says Rabachabarahunal Raba. What did our Mishnah say? Did it say it was specifically that order? If anything, it actually said either way. Then our Mishnah literally said it's gonna be Nivela, doesn't matter what happened first. Shokhar is a topasak is a gaggers, pasak is a gaggers, the achakah shakhar sabesh, doesn't matter which order, the vela, it's gonna be considered a vela. So we see both ways. How could you even uh you have to understand me, Kara Maika Sabah? What do we even mean? So says the Gemara. We see clearly from our Mishnah that across the board they're gonna agree that it's Navela. It doesn't matter which happened first. Really, you have to add it a little bit. What did we mean in the case where we said that you were Shachar e Savesh and then Nifsakares? We didn't mean that you're Shachar e Savesh first. You did the Shrikita Kshah first, but rather Vikvar Shachar Savesh. When it was Nifsakares, Vikvar Shachar Savesh, you already shachted the Vesh, and therefore that happened first. If it happened first, then Nifsikar Gargaris happened. Shele the Shitakh Sher, which is why it's going to be an Availa. But either way, really the only case in the Mishnah is where you did the Shita first and then uh the Psika happens. That's the Gemara. Uh Vikkar Shachar Savesh may Kara. I'll tell you very two very easy uh rides against what you just said. Chod of the Hainu Kamai. So first of all, that would be the same case, right? We said two cases in the Mishnah. The first one was first the Shita, then the Nifsagarga Ghass. And then the second one, we thought it was the opposite, but we just edited it and changed then no. What did it mean? First the shita, then the nifts gagagas. Same case twice in a row. First of all, that's the first that's that's the first one we just said. We're not gonna repeat ourselves. But furthermore, Hotnan, or Hotanya, depending on whether we're referencing our Mishnah or of a different right now. The Akhakath. It says the achakach. That first you did the Nifsagagaris. The Akhakath the Shitah. So clearly that's not what's going on in the Mishnah. Elama Rabbah that's what Rabba says. You're right. So what'shat in the Stirah? Our Mishnah is Mashmah, the Nifsakargeris is a is a Nivela. And the Mishnah Elu Trefus says Elu Trefus. These are Treva. Mashmah is a Trepa. It says Rabbah Elu Asuras, and you have to edit the Mishnah in Elu Trefus. It doesn't mean to say Elu Trefus, it means to say Elu Asurois. These following Tsun are author, the Eishmeh Navelas, Trevas. Some of them are Nevelis, some of them are Trepas. So it's uh it's a big misconception that Elu Trefus is only Trefus. No, it's Elu Asurois. By the way, some of them are in the list because they're Nevelas, some of them are become because they're Trefas, and specifically the one we're dealing with right now is Nifsika Gagares, that would be because a Nevalas, like we just saw in the Mishnah, everyone's gonna agree. If that Mishnah in Elu Trafois is really listing any type of soul, even Nivelois, then it should list other types of Nivelais, right? Why don't we say these following? If that Mishnah is also talking about Navelois, then it should have said Hiskya's Navela that we learned. Damn Hiskya saw Gisterah Nivela. If you made it like a Gistur, you chopped it in half, it's still being farchas, is it considered a Navela? I have another Navela from Rebelezer. Damn Abelezir, not the Yerach, but Halal Shalalah Nivela. If you took uh you cut off its Yerach, it's thai, the Khalal Shalah, and when you cut it off, you saw like the Halal that came out with all uh the parts attached, then it's gonna be considered a Navela. So why don't we say those in the Mishnah? If the Mishnah's listing all trevas and navalas, then why don't we say these two navalas? It's like, all right, Kikitani, the Nivela the lay metame mechaim. You want to know why? Because the Mishnah over there, I can tell you, is only talking about a type of naval that's not mitame mechaim, that's not mitame while the animal is still alive. Like what? Like sukkasa gargares. Like nifsika gargaris in that case, the animal could live a little bit. And that trefa, or nava, right, like we're saying right now, of nifsika gargares is only metameh once the animal actually dies. As opposed to what? As opposed to these two things of uh of uh the gistera when you chop it in half. So what does it mean it's mitame mechaim? This animal's not gonna live out that long. And even if it's being mitfarches, it's like uh chicken running around with that, with that a head, right? It's still moving around, it's mitfarches. I don't know exactly. But whatever the case is, it's still being mitfarches, it's still jumping around. If it's still jumping around, that's the mitame michaim, it's gonna be mitame even from Chaim, even though it's not really Chaim, but it's Metame Mhaim in that case. And that is not what the Mishnah is talking about. Ki kitani the lay mitamilhaimhaim. That Mishnah is only talking about Nivelais that aren'tchaim like nifsakager gers, which is only mitame once the animal fully dies. Whereas these two cases we just referenced, where it's still being mitfarches, that we're not talking about. Abba Navelim, the Metam al-Chaim, like the Gistra, etc. Loi ketani. That's not what the Mishnah is talking about. And in a chanami that the Mishnah really means to count both Navalis and Trefa's, a lua surah's katani, but it's not counting the type of navalas that are going to be mitam alchaim, and that's why we didn't say these two. One case is talking about where you schechted again, we're talking about nifsikah garger. So you had a you had a a nekiv already in the kan, in the gargeras. So one case is talking about where you schechted it the maqim chatah. So when you were going through the kan and the veshet, so you sheched it, so it was already nifsika gargeris, you mamas shetted it in the place of the chatah, in the place where you had the nekem, in the place that you had the hole. And kat shach live makam chatah. So other case is talking about where you had the nifsah gargeras, and then somewhere else you completely schefted it, not in the place of the hole. You shetted it somewhere else on the Khan and the Veshet where you had no holes at all. What is the difference? He explains. Shakha Bemakam Khatah, nifsila bishkita. If you shetted it in the place of the chatah where you already had the hole, and that's where you did the shita. So nifsa la bishkhitah. So it's not a good shritah and the psoul came along al Yedeh Shitah and therefore it's nivelo. Why? Why? What's the difference? So it's very simple. Because if you schecht it bimakem chatah, what comes out? You shachted it by the connah in a place where it already had a hole. If it already had a hole, then you didn't schecht the bikla. Which means what? You scheched one simmon. One simon's not a good shit by a bahema. So you didn't do bikhal shitah. If you didn't do bikhaushitah you killed this animal, shalai shita k sherah, nivelah. Whereas if you did it bemachem khatach, if you did it, sorry, shalai bimakam chatah, you did it in a place where it didn't have any uh cuts, the cut was lowered down or whatever it was. So you scheched it two simon improperly, kidti kunai, that's a good shritah. Ah, you had a hole somewhere else on the on the connet. Yeah, okay, so that's a regular trefa. That's why it's gonna be a trefa in the trefah. So that is gonna be the difference. Very simple. If you scheched it by making khatah, you didn't do a shiita bikal on the connet, already had a hole. You schechted it a bakam chatah, you did one sim, and it's not a shiita. If you didn't do a shiita, you killed an animal shlila de shita, it's gonna be considered a regular. If you did it, shalloi bim makam chatah, then you schech did both simonim very good. Ah, it had a different problem somewhere else. You're right, it's a trefah. But the shrita that you did was a good shrita to be mighty than level. That is the difference over here. That's what Ish Lakish says. Ka shakh and makam chatah, nifsa bishkitai, shalai bi makam chatah, ki douba acha garmla, li posel damia. It's as if something else caused it to become possible. Because your shrita was a good shrita, you went through the two simonim, but it had something else affecting it, which is the fact that it was nifsika gargar somewhere else, and that's why it's gonna be considered a trafo. Oh, me omar of Shimon Lakish Half. He says, Did Raish Lakish really say this? Could Raish Lakish really say that if you were sh if you scheched it, Sheloy Bimakam Khatach, you schechted it not in the place of the khatah? So you did a good shita on the two simonim, it happens to be that it was Nifsacha Gargaris on a different part of the Khanat. Right? On a different part of the Gargaris, it it had an issue. So could Raish Lakesh really say that as long as you did it on a different part, you scheched it Shlaib Makam Khadakh, it's gonna be considered a good shritah, it's gonna be nechar lemais shitah to be might say it within the vela. Could he say such a thing? If you shachted the kone, and then before you shachted the veshhet, that's the point, before you shafted the vesha, nikvaharea. The rea, which is the lung, got a nekiv in it. Shayra, it's gonna be kosher. What do we see over here? Why would it be kosher? The rea is uh considered a trefa, right? And it got a trefa before you finish the full shtita. So why would it be kosher? Because Alma, Kim Mademancha biddi kuladamia. Because the way we look at the rea, the lung, once you already shafted the kone, is as if the lung is mamish taken out of the animal and thrown into a basket. It's already in a basket. So I don't care what happens to it. Why do we look at it like that? Because the lung is very much totally in the kana. The kana is the windpipe, and therefore the windpipe goes straight to the lung. So the lung, once you already schefted through the kane, the lung doesn't really have a purpose anymore. And therefore, we look at the lung, not other parts of the animal necessarily, but we're gonna look at the lung, that's uh Hamshikha the Khanna, we're gonna look at the lung like it's mamisha, it's no shaikhis anymore, the it's already nifsa, it's already got big issues because the kana is already severed, and which gives its life source all its air, and therefore it's as if it's mamish in a side basket right now. And therefore, if we save this svara, and that's why it's gonna be k shera, by the way. So even though you didn't finish your shita and you didn't cut the veshet yet, and the rea, the lung, got a hole, it's still gonna be k shaira because again, why? Because you cut the kana, and the kana in the lung is one big piece, so you cut the kana. So what am I gonna tell you? It's possible because you cut the kana, yeah, it's part of shita to cut the kana, and that's it's obviously not a problem. So we look at it as a hemshotkane because that uh and that's why it's not gonna be a problem, it's gonna be shayra. What do we see? Almakemancha bidikula damu. So we look at the rea again as if it's in a it's no shaichas anymore, it's in a basket. So Achanami, why don't I say the same thing over here? By nifsa gargeras, if the gargeris was severed, why don't I think mancha bikidula bidikuladami, why don't I say that this khan, if it was already nifsika the the the the gargeras, why don't I look at it as if it's in a side basket? And therefore, how could you tell me again? We're asking Akash and Rish Lakesh from the fact that he said if you shachted it sheloy bimakam chatah. Yeah, and it was already nifsikah gargeris, but you shachted it shalib macham chatah, not in the place of the chatah, it's gonna be a good shahitah it's gonna have other issues, it's a trafle, but it's gonna be a good shahitah because you cut through both Simonim. What are you talking about? If we we saw Rish Lakesh holds of this in that by the reyah, it's Kemanda Manchabidikula. And therefore, also over here, in our case, if you have the Nifsikah Gargeras, you have a problem with the Gargaris. So where is it? It's in a basket on the side. So what are you gonna tell me? You cut through in a different part of the Gargaris and it was a good shritah it's Bihlam not in the animal anymore. It's in a basket on the side, according to Rashlakish's reasoning. And therefore, how could you tell me it's possibly a good shriekita when it was already nifsigar gargeras? You can't say such a thing according to the same Savara. El Amrfiya, Bar Abba Umrbiikh. And that's where Bhakib Raba said in the name of Riyakanon. A different answer to this question. What was the question? A steer between Armishna and the Mishnah in Elu Trefus. Armishna is mashma that Nifsikar Gargaris is a Nivela, according to everyone. Even Rabakiva was masking to Rubishavan the other day. And the Mishnah Nelu Trefus says Elu Trefus. It's a Trefa, not a Nivela. Says the Gemara in the name of Rabyekanon, that like Kasha Khan, Khaidim Khazarra, Khan, Acher Khazar, the easiest answer so far. That you want to know the answer to the stira? It depends. One was before Rabakiba was Khaizer, one was after. We saw Rabakiva originally held that it was a Trefa in our Mishnah. And that Mishnah Nelu Trefas, you're right, it's Shita Sribakiva before he was Khaiser. In the end of our Mishnah, he came around and he was Khaizer and he was Mighth to Rabisheva. But so you want to know what's going on in our Mishnah? In our Mishnah, there was a mistake between Rabisheva and Rabika. Rabishava holds it in a vela, Rabakiva holds it to Trefa. In the Mishnah, in Elu Trefhais, that is Shita Surbakiva who holds it to Trefa. And by the way, in the end of our Mishnah, that's later on where Rabakiva was Khaiser and says like Rabishheva that's actually in a vela. So who's that Mishnah? It's Rabakiva before he was Khaiser. Ah, it's later on in Say to the Mishnahis, as we know, and therefore it's now Mishnah Laiza. The Mishnah stayed in his place, not a problem, and we'll hold it here for this.