Chulin 34

Daf Yomi

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's Khundath Lamid Dalid. We're gonna start about 10 lines from the bottom, Lamid Gimal Baze, where we left off yesterday. By the words Umar Rabalazar Umar Bashyya. So we're in the middle of a suya over here. We started a Mishnah yesterday, and just a very short recap that's gonna catapult us right into back into the suya. What we need to know. The Mishnah said the haloch is of what happens when you shachth and you don't see dam. So even if you shacht and you don't see dam, shaitasik shayra as we saw. And then the Mishnah went on to say another aloha that happens when you don't have dam. If you didn't have dham when you did the shaitha, there was no blood, so therefore, the nachalin be a daimusabis. You're allowed to eat this basar using your tomaih hands. Now, what does that sound like? And what's the deal que we made from the Mishnah? It sounds like the only reason you're allowed to eat the baser with your tomate hands is because there was no blood. If there was no blood, it wasn't maqshur it, there was no liquid to be maqshared eichal uh lakabaltoma. And therefore, even though your hands are tame, it's not gonna be metamidabasur when you eat it, because again, there was no dham and it wasn't hukshir the kabotuma. But says the Gemara, what's it mashma? It's mashma that if it was mikabaltuma, let's say there was dham. It's mashma that if it was mikabutuma, then you can't eat a biodaimus service. You're not gonna be able to eat a biodaim. Why? Because you're gonna be metamidabasur. The question is, what are we talking about? Is this chulin? If it's chulin, it can't be hulin. Why? Because we'd dyim, we know, we're taking for granted at least, that your daim are always shneem latum, it's always a shaney. Now we know every level you go down in Tuma, from the Ab to the Rishan to the Shane, every level usually when it transmits, it gets diluted a little bit. So a rishan that touches something becomes a shani. Now the shani that's metama something else, that thing becomes a slishi. Now we know that different things have uh limits. And chulin cannot become a slishi. Hulin the max it could be as a shane. Truma's more humorous, so truma could even be a slishi. Kudchim is the most humorous, so it could even become a Razvi. But the point is, Hulin cannot become a slishi. So says Nigemara, what are we talking about in the Mishnah? The Mishta's Mashmah that's the only reason you're allowed to touch it with your tame hands that are shiny because your dime are always a shiny. The only reason you're allowed to touch it with your tummy hands is because it wasn't Hoksha. Mashma, if it was Uksha the Kabultama, then you wouldn't be able to touch the busr. Let's say there was dum, it went through liquid. You're not able to touch the busser because you're gonna be Metamit. Why? We're talking about Hulin, by the way. Maybe we're talking about Khakshim. No, four eyes and yesterday's not to go through all them again. That the mission is talking about um, that the mission is talking about Hulin and not Khunshim. So we know, we established for a fact the mission is talking about Hulin. If the Mishnah is talking about Hulin, what do we care? What do we care that you're gonna eat it, be Odaim Saibas, which is a shani, and it's gonna go ahead and be Metame, this thing to make it into a Slishi. If we're talking about Hulin, Hulin cannot become a Slishi. So what is the problem and what's going on over here? So the Gamaro gave two answers already. The first answer, just quickly, was that yeah, you're right, we're talking about Maestra Shane, Mayshani actually can become a slishi. Second answer was that you were under the assumption that your daim can only be a sneey and litoma. No, happens to be a dime can actually be a rishum litoma sometimes. And if it can be a rish and litoma, so even if we're talking about Hulin, you have the possibility that it's gonna be in the top of the buster and make it into a shani. The third answer, and again the question is in the Mishnah, it's Mashma, that your if it was Mikabutoma, if there was Dhamma and it's a Mikabutoma, so if it was Mikabutoma, you're not gonna be able to touch it with your tome hands. The problem is why not? We're talking about Hulin, as we established, and your hands are a shiny, and shani is not ISIS Shleishi, but Hulin Hulin cannot become a shlishi, so why not? says the Gemarpha the third answer. Um lezir, omrhuishya. Hokha bhulin shanasu altaira sakesh askina. You wanna know why? Because we're talking about hulin shenasu altaira sakesh. We know this Indian already. This is a concept that sometimes, Koihanim especially, that dealt a lot with Truman Kotchim, but even some told me the Khochamim, they would be more machmir and treat their hulin al-Tairas akoidesh. And they would you treat even the hulin that they ate on the level of Tiras Akhidesh, the same level of Ta'ar you need for Khotchim, because they wouldn't want to get confused. Sometimes, you know, you're dealing with different things, sometimes you're dealing with kachim. And therefore, they even kept their hulin on the level of khotchim. And we learnt already that once you take upon yourself this khumra, of chulin shinasu altaira sakesh, not only are you uh machmir over there, but it actually impound it impacts haloho. And the rabanan were goizer certain things that if you took upon yourself that khumra, so we're actually gonna give the food, me the rabanan at least, that level of tumah, respectively, just like the kajum itself. So if you treat your hulan as kachim, then it's gonna have the level of khajim. If it has the level of kachim, this was the one answer. We already answered, we could uh finish the daff for today, really not, because the next line is gonna be the rest of the daff. But this was the final answer that we're gonna say right now. Why? The Hulin Shenasu, Altasakesh. You wanna know why we're worried that your Yudaiim that are a shani are gonna be Metama the Busur if the busar is hulin and hulin cannot become a shlishi? Because we're not talking about regular hulin, we're talking about Kulin Shinasu Atarisukesh. You accepted upon yourself this khum, and therefore, hulin shenasu atari saqadesh has the din of Kaidish at least Midraban that it can become a shlishhi. By the way, if it's Kaidesh, it could even become a Rabi. And therefore, yet yet that your Yadaim are a shiny and makes it into a Shlishi, no problem, because we're talking about Hulin Shinasu, Altai Sakadesh has Kinan. That's the point. Udilay K Ribbishwa. And this would not work like Ribishwa, by the way, just uh side note to this answer, it's more of the main note for today because the rest of the daff is gonna discuss is does Ribishwa hold of this or not. But in this first answer, we're saying that this answer is not gonna line up with Ribishwa, because according to what we're understanding right now, Ribishwa does not hold of this in. He holds there's no such khumra. There's no such thing as kulin shanatsuatar sakesh. There's no such thing. And if there's no such thing, then it's khulin. You're trying to treat it like koidesh, there's no such khumra as that. And if so, Rashi says, and it's regular, regular khun cannot become a shlishi. So back to square one, what are we talking about? And therefore, this answer is not gonna work in Ribishwa because Rabishua doesn't hold the Khlaal of the concept of this Khumra of Kulin Shannatu Watar Sakadesh. Where do we see Rabishhua's cheetah that he doesn't hold a ful in Shenazu Attara Sakhesh Titan? Yeah, we have a right so Ribalaza. Ribalaza says, Ha'ichel, oichelishan. Ha'ichel eichel rishan. So someone who eats oichel, and that oichel, the thing that he ate was a risha latoma. So Rishan, he becomes a risha latoma. If you ate a reishen, you yourself become a risha natoma. It doesn't get diluted because you ate it, and now it's uh you yourself become a risha natuma. Shane, shani. If you eat a shiny, you become a shani. Shlishhi shlishhi. If you eat a slishi, you yourself become a shlish latumba. You are what you eat, basically. Whatever you eat, that's the level of tumma that you take on. That's sheetas rebelaser. Ribishwaimer, Ribishwa argued and said no. Ribish Sheeta is a lot more complicated. Ribbas, all we need to know. You are what you eat. Rishin, Rishan. If you eat a shani or a shani, shlish or shlishi. Ribishwa says something totally different. Ribbishua Imer, Ha Ichel Eichel Rishin, Vishani, Shani. Someone who eats eichel, uh, that's either a rish of the Toma or a Shane Latoma, he becomes a shani latoma. So if he's a if he eats a rish and latoma, he becomes a shaini litoma. If he eats a shayne latoma, he becomes a shani latoma. Shlishi, if he eats a slishi latoma, shaini la kaidesh, he actually goes back a step, he becomes more atame. If he eats a slishi, he becomes a shaini as it relates to Kaidash. We're gonna explain why in a few minutes. They ain't shanilitruma, but that's only as it relates to Kaidesh, not as it relates to Truma. And this is all, says the Brahsa. This back and forth, this is all but Hulin Shinasu Attaras Truma. This is all as it relates to Hulin. These Allahs we just said as it relates to Hulin, Shinasu Atiras Truma. That were made with the Khumra of Truma, not with the Humra of Khajam. We know there's different inyan, right? There's Khun Shinasu Atiras like Kaidesh, like we discussed a minute ago, and there's Hulin Shinasu Ataras Truma. What's the difference? So it's very simple. It's different Khumras, right? Obviously, Qhajim is more humras than regular trumah. Regular Truma was eaten by Kahanim all over all over your shalim in their houses to their servants to everything. Kaidesh is mamish eaten only to zikhre kahuna, and it's much muhammer, khadchem. It has a la more alahas. And therefore, someone who eats his chulin on the darga of the khumra of Kaidish is obviously something totally different than someone who eats his chulin. It's also khumra, but you're eating your chulin on the darga of truma. Shinas altairas atruma. And there were different khumas people took on because kayam that were dealing a lot with truma, they don't want to get confused. So even their chulin, they treated like truma. And the same thing with the humra of kachum, which is a lot more. But either way, these alohs we just said is Bhulin Shinas Altai's Trumah. Only on Taras Truma, and the deak we're gonna say is Altiras Truma in Al Tarash Khoidesh Loi. That this is only true. This whole back and forth, Rebelaz Rabishua, this is that Rabishhua said that if you eat a shlishi, you go back a darga, you become more tame, you become a shani. If you eat a slishi, you become a shani. He said, What? Bihulin, that's only the Koidesh, the ain't shani the Truma, but this is all only Bihulin Shinaswatar's Truma. This is only talking about the type of Hulin Shinaswataris a Truma. What's the deal? That this is only gonna apply, this whole Indian, that you're gonna become a shani from eating a shlishi. That's only gonna apply Bihulin Shinaswatar's Truma, but not Bihulin Shinaswataris a Koidesh. Why? Because maybe it must be because the Bhu Shlishi. Because it must be that Rabishhua doesn't hold him this Humra. He does hold the Khul and Shanaswataris Truma, but he doesn't hold the Khul and Shanaswataris Akhesh. It's not a thing according to Rabishwa. Now why not, Miswara? What would you say? If anything, it's more Khammer, right? So if you hold to the Khumra of Khul and Shinas Ottaras Truma, why wouldn't you hold to the Humra of Khul and Shinas Otara's Kohdesh? It's more Khammer. So if anything, there's more room for a Khumra. If Kh'chim is more Khamar than Shuma. So Pashtus, you have to say, and this is what Rashi says, because Truma is more khiach. If Truma is more shiach, then there was this inyun that uh Allah Kahanim did. They were dealing with Truma all day, Paris all over the place, and therefore they took upon an Humra of themselves. They didn't even know Hulan they're gonna be dealing with, they're gonna do it on the level of Truma. Hulan Shamasu Altai's Truma. As it relates to Khotchum, Kh'm is already a lot less Shiah than Truma. And if it's a lot less Shiach than Truma, it wasn't something people really did. And even if someone decided to do it, Zakterashi Batl Day, it's so kaladim, he's batlday, there's no such khumra. So says the Gemara, from this khajman we just brought, it must be that according to Rabishwa, there is no concept of Hulin Shanasu Altairas Hakhaidesh. There's a concept of Hulin Shinasuataris Chumah, but there's no concept of Hulin Shanasu Ataras Hakhaidesh, which means that's Udul like Rabishhua. That's why we answered Amr Belazar, Amr Bahishi, Yah, but Hulin Shannas Watharis Akadish. You want to know the answer to our question? We started off in the Gemara. Now, what's Pshat in the Mishnah? That we're worried if it was Mikabul Tummah that your Yadaim, which are a Shaini Latuma, is gonna be Metamit? We're talking about Hulun, if we're talking about Hulin, so your Yodaim is a sheni, it's Metamit that goes down a level to a shlishi. A chulin can't become a shlishi. What are we worried about? And so the Gemara, a chulin shannaswa tara's a kidish. We're talking about chulin that has the level, you did it on the Humra of Kaidesh, which means there are a bottom that takes on the Humra of Kaidesh and therefore it can become a Slishi. Of course it could become a Slishi if it takes on the level of Kaidesh. And by the way, that's still like Rabishua, because according to the Khazman we just made, Rebishwa doesn't hold the Khlavizain of Kulin Shannaswatar's Qadish. There's no such thing according to Rebishwa. But says the Gemara, according to this Khabin we just made, Velukmah, I have another easy way out. According to some information we just learned from this back and forth Ribbishua and Rabelezer, now I have a different answer to the question we had from the Mishnah. Why can't we establish the Mishnah as Rabbi Yeshua? Really? Why? Because Velukma, Bihulin Shinaswatar's Truma, Ribishwa. Just say that the Humra in the Mishnah we're talking about is Hulinshannaswataras Truma, not Kulin Shnaswatar's Akadesh, right? What was the Hulukim Talimade? That the Mishnah is not talking about regular Hulin. It's talking about Hulin Shannaswatar Sakhaidesh, so it can't be Ribishua. Okay, so just say that it's talking about Hulin Shanaswatar's Truma, which Ribishwa does hold as a thing, Verbishwa, and therefore the Mishnah is Ribishwa. And it would answer the same question. How could he be Mintameh? Why are we worried that your daimer gonna be Mintame? The Buser over here if the Busser is Kulin and if it can't become a Slish, your daimer only is Shaney. Answer is because Hulun Shinaswatar is Truma. Truma can become a Slishi, no problem. Very good. So say it's Hulinshina Swatar's Truma, which Ribishwa holds us, holds of, and therefore it can be Ribishua. And so the Gemara, you can't say that in our mission. It can't be. Because Laysa Ganah, don't think that. Diktani Busser, because it says busar in the Mishnah, right? What are we worried about? That your hands are gonna be Metame, the Buser. Now what's the problem? Deepit Truma Basar Myika, because if it's truma, right? If the thing we're talking about is Kulinchinasa Ataras Truma, then do you have busar that's truma? No, you have busser that you have truma that's patras. Patris is generally truma. Busar is not gonna be truma. And therefore, if it's truma, then busar miika, you don't have to you don't have busar at all, so that's not what we're talking about. So obviously the Mishnah is talking about busur, it must be if it's Hulin, so it's Kulin Shinas Altarasa Koidesh. Now Khulin Shinaswataris Truma, because there's no busar by Truma, says the Gemara Elamai. And by the way, you're gonna ask my maybe he took upon himself the Khumra of Hulin Shanasu Atarasa Koidesh to just treat everything as Koidesh. Kotchin. We're just gonna answer you, yeah, but that's not oh sorry, the Khulin Shinas Altaras Truma just treat everything as Truma. Whatever you eat, whether it's pairis or basar. The answer is that it wasn't so there's no such thing. The whole Khumra of Khulin Shanasuatiras Hatruma is to make sure that you're not gonna confuse your Truma and your Hulan, and therefore it only makes sense to say that about something that can be Truma. So as relates to your pairas that are Hulin, that you're gonna have the Kumra for. But basar that can't be Truma anyways, you're never gonna be confused, and therefore this Khumrah does not apply to the Basr. So obviously we're not talking about Hulin Shinas Ataras Truma because it says basar in the Mishnah, and Basar is not Truma. It can't be, it's just pairas truma. And therefore, it says the Gemara Elamai. According to what you just answered me, Bikachim, so what are you gonna tell me that? Obviously, he's talking about kachim because it says basar. Does that help me? What were one of the examples in the Mishnah? Chaya Bikachimika, one of the examples in the Mishnah, we said Chaya. That this issue we're gonna have even by chayah. But if the whole thing is Khu and Shnasatarasak Koidesh, and we're talking about Kachim, that took on the level of kachim, then do you have a chaya by kachim? You don't have a chaya by kachrim, undomesticated animal. There's no such thing like katshim. And therefore I could ask you the same question. The same way you don't have basar by truma, you don't have a chaya or basar chaya by kachim, and therefore what is it why why would that be any better? And to Zekimara, I'll tell you why it would be better. Because basr bi basar michlif. Basur bi perila michlif. Different types of basar, meaning basar behema, basar chaya, that someone could uh could get confused. He could open up his freezer, he sees different types of cuts of meat, from one from a behema, one from a chaya. It's not apparently obvious which one's from a haiya, which one's a behemah. And since it's michlif, that's why someone who was machmir on himself that took upon the humra of Hulan Chinaswat's a Kaidesh, so he's gonna be Machmir by O Basar. Whether it's uh Basr Chayo, which really doesn't have anything to do or a different basar, because you could confuse it, and therefore if he took upon himself it's Khumra, he's gonna be Machmir by O Basr. So that's why we're gonna it's gonna take upon the Humrah even by Basr Chayo of Khul and Shinas Kadesh. Whereas Truma, Truma can only be Pairas. And therefore, you can't tell me that the mission is talking about Pairois, because Pairas and Basr, you're not gonna confuse Pedrois and Basr. It's two different things, and that's why it's not talking about Hulun Shana Tarashuma. It's talking about Khul and Shanaswataras Khaidesh, which means according to what we just said, Udul like your Bishua. Because your bishua does not hold the khla. There's such a chumra of Khun Shinas War Sakhoidesh. He only holds of Khul and Shanas Watas Chuma. Says the Yemara. Omar Ulah Ula says the following Khevraya Amrin Bhulinsh Watasakadesh would like Rabishua. The way the Khevra answered this, the way my friend answered this, we're gonna see it singular in a second, is that the mission is talking about Hulun Shannaswa Tara Sakhaidesh, and it's not like a Rishua, the whole Khajrin we just made. Vanamina, that's what they so that's what they hold. But a vanamina, you want to know what I say? That Ribbishua, this could even work according to the Bishua. Really, same answer. That the mission is talking about Hulinshinasuatara Shaidesh, and that's how it could even become a Slishu, because it has the Humra of Khajim. Okay. So it's talking about Ribishwa. So it's talking about Hulin Shinas Wataris Akadesh. But I hold it could even be according to the Bishua. Why? Because I'm gonna tell you, but Lemibai Kamar, you assumed before, based off what we brought down, that Ribishwa doesn't hold of Hulin Shinasu Ataris Akidesh. He doesn't hold of the Humra. Why? Because he only said Hulin Shinasu Ataris Truma. We said Altaris Truma in Altaris Khram not Loi. So it's like not true. Says Ula not true. I'm gonna tell you that Lemibai Kamar. That the Ribishwa said before that everything was talking about Hulin Shinaswataris Truma. It was a lime baikyamar. It didn't mean because the only humra over here is Altaris Truma and not Altaris Kulin. It was lime by Kuminchanas. That's more Khamar because it's Khotchim, and therefore for sure it's gonna have a Shlishi. Because there is the Khumra of Hulinchanas a Kaidesh. Ella Filu, Hulun Shinaswatar's Truma, Nami Isbu Slishi. That also is gonna have the Kumra. So basically when he said Hulun Shnasu Ataris Truma, it wasn't to say only Altaris Truma, not Kaidesh. It was basically to say obviously Kaidesh, and by the way, also Truma because it's more Kalan. And therefore, says Ulah, you're right, same answer that the Mishnah is talking about Kholin Shanasu Altars Ha Khoidesh, and that's how it's gonna become a Shlishi. But this also works in Ubishua, that's where I argue. I hold that this even works in Urbishua because I hold that Urbishua does hold of this humra. He holds of the Humra of Khun Shinasu Altai's Khaidesh, just like he holds of the Humra of Khol and Shanasu Altiras Hatshurma. So it says the Gemara, Manhavraya, who's this chemra, right? Fully came in and said that answer we just gave that it's Khun Shana's Altai Shaqadish and it's Diloika Rabishua because Ribishua doesn't hold of that. That's what the Khevra said. But I say it differently. I say it could even be Ribishwah. He's saying Manhavraya, who's the Khevra? So Rab Barchana, he says the Gemara, it's Rabbah Barbachana. That Khevra that said that original answer is Rabbah Barrachana. Damn Rabhana Am Rebechanan. Rabbi Rachana send the name of Rihanna. And I remember he said in the name of Rabbiekhana, and we're gonna need that from Ahmad Base. Rabbi Brachana sends the name of Ryakhanan. What was the shakh of Atariya? What was the back and forth between this machelikas we brought between Ribalazan and Rabishua? What was the back and forth exactly? So I'll tell you like this. He had a Mesira, it's not a Mishnah, it's not a Brah. So what we're about to quote, it's Tanoim, but it's not a Mishnah, it's not a Brah. So it's just Rabba Brahana quoting Rebeikhanan who had a Messaira. Now this was the back and forth between the two Tanoim, Ribalazar Nibishua. So Amrla Ribalazar Ribishua, I'll tell you what they said to each other. Ribbelez said Ribishua. Again, let's remember what their shetas were, because that's gonna make this back and forth easier. Ribalazar very much said, you are what you eat. You eat a risha, you become a reshant. You eat a shani, you become a shani. Eat a shleish, you become a shlishi. Very simple. That's Ribelez. Ribishua had this whole convoluted thing. You eat a rishain or a shani, you become a shani. If you eat a slishi, you become a shiny for kidesh. So we're gonna try to figure that out right now. What was the back and forth? Says Nigamar. So you need to know what eichel and eichel means. But we find that oichel, meaning the eichel, the eater, the guy that's eating. So we find that someone that eats is more hummer than a oichel. Over here, eichel means maikel than the food itself. So we find that the person that eats the food is more humar than the food itself. Where do we find that? Because as it relates to niblas iftar, which is a special type of tumma, as we know, that's mitame begodama bey sabliya. If someone eats a nibela of an oiftar, he eats the nibela. So once it's going down his throat, then it has a special tumma that's metame begodama bey sabliya. But it's not mitame bimala. If you touch it, if you touch a nibela of an iftar, you're not tummy. If you swallow it, then you're tummy. So it's a whole separate khidish. So dilu nibla'iftar, pachutzla mitame. From the outside, if you just touch it, it's not mitame. But if you eat it, then it is mitame bagadama basebliya. So what do we see over here? We see that the oichel, the guy that's eating it, is more tum more hummer than the food itself. Because the food itself, if you go and touch it, by the nibla sa iptar, you're not gonna become tameh. But if you eat it, you are gonna become tame. So we see the eichl is more humr than the maikal. And therefore, the anu heikhloy nase oichal kamachal. So how do how can if the eichl is more hummer, the guy eating is more humar than the food itself. So when someone eats tummah, at least he has to take on the same level as the thing that he ate. If he's more khamar, then for sure when he eats it, he takes on at least the level of the tumma itself. And that's why Rabbi Lazar very nicely said, according to this judgment, if you eat a rish and you become a risha. The fakot you're gonna become the same thing. Daya lovam and adin, right? You're gonna become the fakot a rish. If you eat a shaythni, you become a shifeni. If you eat a shisha, you're gonna become a shlishi. So that was what Rabbi Lazah said. Rabbi Shua, what's Rabishwa can answer back? He's gonna tell you Nivla Sayftar like Amrina the Kiddishhu. He's gonna tell you you can't learn anything from Nivla Saiftar, because that whole parsha is a kiddieh, the fact that it's daka metama once is going down your throat. That's a special kiddish of Tumah that we don't find anywhere else, and therefore you can't learn anything from it. Allah, Rabishhua continues, you wanna know why I say what I say? Because Allah Matsinusha Maichel Khamar Menah. We actually find the opposite. We find that sometimes the food itself is more khamar than the guy eating it. Why? Because the food itself, to become tame, needs a kabezah to be metame, it needs a kabezah. The oichel, and the guy who eats the food, when does he become tame? Add the ochel ka hatipras. He has to eat a hatsipras, which is two baits him. Therefore, what do we see over here? That the maikel, the food, needs less than the oichel. So we feed we see that the maikel is actually more hummer than the guy eating it. The anuhe nas the oichal kamaikel. So if the food is more hummer than the guy eating it, so when he eats it, how could you possibly tell me that they're gonna be on the same level? Obviously, the guy eating it, if he's less hummer, he should be uh down one notch. He should be diluted form of tuma. And that's why what? That's why Ribishwa started off saying, if you eat a rishay, you become a shaney. Now, why do you become a shaney if you eat a shane? So we're gonna we're gonna go we're trying to try to go through this. But either way, that's the premises because again, it's the opposite that the oichal is less hummer. The guy eating is less humer than the food itself, as we just saw, and therefore, if you eat it, you go down one level. Says the Gemara Ribbazer. What's Ribazar gonna answer back? Toma Mishir and Legamrina. No, I can't learn toma from the shear and the shear is something else in Gansin, that's a lochum sinai, maybe. And uh you can't stell that suit uh what tomo is more hummer or not. There's nothing to do. Once it's a shear, everything has its own shear for whatever reasons they are, but that has nothing to do with what level the of humra the tomo is, and that's why we're not gonna learn uh to the regular Humer of this Toma. Oh, you then furthermore, but that's again the news. Litvorrecha, according to the Yoruba Shua, Shea Taimer Al-Rishan Shane, Yafa'atimer. So according to your Yur Khajbin that you just said, so that that you just said Al Risha and Shaney, that if you eat a Rishain, you become a shanee. Yafa'athaimer. That makes very much that makes good sense according to what you just said. Why? Because according to your khajbin, the guy eating is less Humer. So if you eat something and you're less Hummer than the thing you're eating, then you get down one level. You eat a Rishan, you become a shiny. Very good. Yafaataimer with Shi Tascha. According to what you're saying, very good. But Shaney Shaney Lama. But you also said that if you eat a shanee, you also become a shanee. Why? According to you, you should be dumbed down a notch, no? You should become a shlish at least. So Amr, you answered him back. I'll tell you. But sino shah shani is a shani. You want to know why I hold that by a shahini, eating a shani, you become a shani itself. Because we find sha shiny oish shani ali day mashkin. Because we find the concept where shani become makes another shani. Where do you find that? Ali day mashkin. This is mashkin. We're talking about a specific case where mashkin is on oichu and oichu that touched that mashkin. So if it's a shani, that becomes a shani itself. Since we have this concept basically, since there's a concept of a shiny oysheshani by mashkin, we find that. So so to the rachamimur geyser over here, that someone who eats it, he's gonna have that same level of humra. If he eats a shiny, he's gonna have that same level of humra that he's also gonna become a shiny, because we do find this concept that a shani is aisha shane. Where do we find that? By mashkin that's on the eycha. But says the gimmick, and that's so that's why I say that a shiny is gonna be oysashani, but I'm a lie. He answered it back, meaning Rabishhua answered back to or rather Rabbi Lezir answered back to Rabishwa. But the Hamashkin namithi lahavu. According to you, what did you just say? That the reason you become a shaney if you eat a shiny is because we find the inin where shani is Isa Shaney, whereby mashkin. Aichlin that touches mashkin that's on a food, it becomes a shiny. So that's why. That it's gonna become a sheni. It says before, according to you, we also find sometimes even that the mashkin become Rishun. And Mashkin are Rishin even sometimes. And therefore, according to you, that we're gonna apply anything that we find one time, right? We find that a senior is I shiny by mashkin. But we also find that it's by mashkin. And therefore, according to you, maybe it should be back a notch. You should go back. A shani should be is a reason. It should be make it uh reason. Where do we find this thing? The Tanan, we have a Mishnah. Kal ha poisel bitruma, metame mashkin liyas tchhila, chut mit vulyai. Kola poisabitruma. Anything that's poison but truma, what does that mean? That it's metame the truma. But poisil again always means that it's the last step. So poisil but truma, what's the last step of tumma by truma? It's gonna be number three. It's gonna be a shlishi because a truma cannot become a ravia, that's only katcha. So the last step of tumma by a by truma is always gonna be a shlishi. So poisil bitruma meaning something is being metame this uh truma, but it's poison it, meaning it doesn't have the ability now that truma to go on and give the tumma to something else, meaning it makes the truma into a shlishi. So it's paiso the truma. So what is paiso? What's the thing that's being metame this truma? Meaning it's a shani. So call up poisil batuma, it's being pa it's paseling the truma, making it into a slici, meaning this thing that's passing the truma is a shani itself. So call up pais of the shani, any shani, call a paisobatruma, any shani litoma, mitame mashkin li is thila. When it comes into contact with mashkin, it makes the mashkin into a tchila. So any shani litoma, we literally have a Mishnah that says any shiny litoma, because it's paisel botuma, which is a slashi, so again it's a shiny. We're talking about a shani, it's mitame mashkin li athilah. If it's mitame mashkin, it becomes a rishain litoma. So, according to you, because we find by mashkin, we also find by mashkin that if it's a shani litumba that touches mashkin, it's gonna become a risha in Lituma. So, why don't you say that? And by the way, Chutmi Thuyan, that's not the point over here. That's an exception to the rule. But one thing we see over here that is that it even becomes a Rishan. So why didn't you say that? Oh, and furthermore, I'll ask you another question. Shlishi, shani, lama, right? I understand that a risha makes into a shani according to what you just said. Even a shani is a shani because you had this whole Kamaludul Khajbin that uh that we find this concept sometimes. So there are Bono more guys are also over here. But why Shlishi becomes a shani? Why if you eat a slishi, according to what Ribishwa said on the bottom of Ahmed Baze? Ribishua said if you eat a slishi, you become a shani. That goes backwards. Why? What does that make any how does that make any sense? So Amar Allah says Kamar Rabishua answered him back. I'll tell you why. He answers the last question. I and Rashi, why didn't even address the first question? Because we just had two questions, right? The first one was we even find the Mashkin that it could become a uh a Rishon. So why do you limit it to the point of a shaini? So it says uh uh the reason the reason is, by the way, because it it what it's not the best question. He's gonna knock him off by just saying that's really mashkin. Mashkin is something else. The case before, which was also Mashkin, it wasn't really Mash, it was Mashkin on top of Ichwin. But Mashkin in its pure sense, you can't ask a question from there. That's not our point for now. But either way, he's gonna ask, he's gonna answer the second question that Rabelezar asked him. That Rabbi Shua, I understand, even if I can make sense of your uh your first talach, I still have a problem. Shlishi shaini lama. If you eat a shlishi, why do you become a shani? How does it work backwards? So Ummar Larry Rabishwa answered him back. Afa ni loya marti elabitruma. I only said this by truma. Meaning what? I only said this by chulin. That's a slishi, that's not se uh al yeah the chumra of truma. So if it's if you eat chulin shanasu alyedei, uh yude truma, if you eat it on that level and it was a slishi litoma, shlish lituma, but it was chulin that had the level of truma, so if you eat that, you now become a shady. And I only said it by truma. Why? Shitaharasa Tumohi ate sala kaidah. Because even something that you know is only a slishi, what does only a slishi mean? Only a slishi means it's much less tume, right? It's not an avatama, it's not a rishan, it's not a shini. It's only a slishi, meaning it's very far removed, this tumma. So it's only a slishi as it relates to uh truma. Even something that's only a slisha as it relates to truma, ligabe katshim, we're gonna suspect that it's even a rish. And why is that? Because Shatara Tumma he ate a khadish. Even if it's considered ta'ur to a certain extent, it's mamesh removed by truma, ligabe kathim, that thing that you're sure by truma is good, by kutchim it's biklana, we have to assume the worst of the worst. Why? Zakterashi Rashi brings us in uh Yesai that we say in Khagiga that big day eichhli truma midrash lakesh that the begodim of eichli truma kehanim that kept themselves tar for eating truma, so they were very makbana themselves for truma. So you could assume their begottim are 100% tar, right? No, begodim eichli truma, the eichli truma their begottim is midrash lakesh. It's considered tame. That's a fancy way of saying a certain a certain type of tumma. But medrish lekaidish, as it relates to Kaidesh, it's gonna be Tame. Why? Because the Shmira that a Kayan has for Truma is not doimah to the Shmira he would have for Kachim. And therefore, if it's Nasa Agahumra of Truma, you can't assume that he had in mind anything for Kachim, and Kachem is much more severe, and therefore, even though you had a Shmira for Truma, and in our specific case over here, we're talking about that you're always you're all the way down to a shlishi, the truma. You're all the way down to a shlishi, so it's very far removed to the tumma. Yeah, that's good for truma. But as it relates to kachim, we have to assume that it's a much higher level of truma, because again, it's not set tumma eats a la koidash, and therefore what? And therefore it comes out that this eichlin that you have, that's muqsik like a shlishi, legabe truma, we're gonna be shishish that legabe kachim, if you want to compare this to khatshem, legabe katchem, it's actually gonna be considered a re shin, and that's why, and that's why if you eat it, if you eat this katshim that's a rishan, and this is the point, then you're gonna become a what? You're gonna become a shani, you're gonna become a shiny, and that's why if you eat a shlishi, the truma, what's ru- what was Rabbi Shua's answer? Rabbi Lazar asked him. I don't understand, even if I can make sense of everything else. I don't understand. If you eat a slishi, why do you become a shani? How does it work backwards? He answers back, Afaniloyama'tia bitruma. I only said that aloha by truma. But what were we talking about? Meaning chulin shanasu altiras ha truma. That's where I said that aloha. But ta aloha was nagea khim, right? Sha ta' ruh, but aloha was nagea khatshim. That this in you're gonna be nasehlishi. You're gonna be nasa shahni le kaidesh will trumah, if you remember that's what we said. So by khulin shenasu altiras truma, if you eat that and it was a shlishi, you are gonna go back a level and you're gonna become uh shayni, nasa shani for koidesh. As it relates to koidesh, why again to read the words? Shah Rosa Tumma he ate a la koidesh because the tahara, even what you consider tahara by truma is considered tumma for kaidesh because it's much more Khammer. So even though this is a shlishi for trumah, you have to assume that it's a rishain legabe koidesh, which means if you eat it now, you eat a rishon the Kaidesh, which makes you into a shani. That's why if you eat a slish of the truma, you become a shani. Lik Koidesh, very good. So it says Amr Ribzaira, Amr Ribbasi, Amr Raby's. Ribzaira says in the name of Rabasi, in the name of Ribyoikhan, back to Ribyana, in the name of Ribyani. But the main point over here you have to remember is Amr Ribyoichanan. And I uh referenced that also on Amar Alif. Because we're gonna have to keep that in mind in a second, we're gonna ask Akasha. But either way, one of the so what Ribzaira said, and this goes back to Ribyoychanan, it goes back even further to Rabyanai, but what did he say? That Oichal Shlishi Shall Hulin, Shinasu Altares Akadesh, someone who eats a slishi of hulin shanasu al Tara Sakhaidesh. Hulin that took up that you took upon yourself the Humra of Kachim. We said maybe Rabishua doesn't even hold that's a thing, right? He himself becomes a shiny. So what is this, aloha? If you eat a shlishi of chul shan't, you become a shani. You eat a slishi, you become a shani. So this sounds very much like who? This sounds like Rabishua, right? If you eat a slish, you become a shayni. The problem is that we saw before, Rabishua said it's aloha by chunchataris shumah, not a khun shanasuatarisakhoidesh. And we just said, according to what we saw before, Ribishwa doesn't even hold that as a bhichlahumra kunch nasa koidesh. There's only a humra kun shnash truma. And therefore, what are we talking about over here? So it says good by shani lakhaidesh. If you eat a slishi, you become a shiny. Sounds like a bishop, but Ribish only said that by Taras Hatchuma, not by a tarasakhoidesh, which we just said. So Ace Rub Zelvashi, so Rebzaira asked Rivasi the following That Shlishi, Shani Lakoidesh, the ain't Shani Latruma. Bekhulin Shinaswataras Truma. Quoting the Mishnah that we quoted earlier, right? What did we say before? That if you eat a slishi, you become a shani lakoidesh. You become so if you eat a shlishi, you become a shani for koidesh. The ain't shiny litruma, but you don't become a shiny for truma. Bekhulin Shinaswatiras Truma. And this is all as relates to Hulinshinaswataris Truma, not as relates to Hulin Shinaswa Altiris Akoidesh. So how are you telling me the same aloha as relates to true and shanasuatas a koidesh? If we first said before, this is as relates to Kulin Shinas Altaris Truma. So and that's what the Gamar says right now, Altaras Truma in Altaris Kohdesh. Why? Sounds like this aloha would only be true. Altiris ha altaris truma, but not Altiris Akoidesh. So how are you telling me this same aloha altaris a koidesh? So I'm relay, loemi boy, Kamar. The answer to that, that it's really a loomi boy. We don't mean to say this aloha is only true by Khu and Shanas Altaris A Truma, but not Khu and Shanas Otaris Akohidesh because it's not a thing. We mean Loimi Boy. Loimi boy, obviously it's gonna be true by Hunchanas Altaris Aqajes because Tarza Khajis is more Khammer, it's conscious. But even Hu and Shanasatuma, this is gonna be true as well, says the Gemara. Vehic. In the Hajjman of the going back and forth that we quoted from Rabbi Barkana, that was quoting R Biacharan, the had a massara of the Mahlikas, the back and forth, the Shakavatara between Rabalaza and Rabishhua, what did Rabishhua say back to Rabalazar? This was the bottom of a maralif. He said, Afaniloya Marty Ela Bitchumah. I only said my aloha as it relates to Truma. Right? And if I said my aloha is relates to Truma, that uh you if you eat a Slishi that was Hulaj Nashara's trumah, you become a shani. You become a shani for Khajin. And we just explained that whole Khajbin. But what did he say? He said he only said that aloha's relates to Truma. So are you telling me that he means Loy Mi Bhai? Loy Mi Bahai, obviously it's gonna be true by Khatcha, but also by Truma. What do you mean? He said Afa Niloyah Marty, alabi truma. I only said it by trumah and tafkay not khajim. And it says the gimmara, and but by the way, what's the kasha? Because before it was Rabbah Barbarachana quoting Rabbi'ichanan. Over here it's Rabasi, Amr Rab Zay, Ramar Ravasi, Ammar Rabi Yoychanan. So this is Rabbi'ichanan. And it's the same Rabbiaichanan. So which one is it? This haloch is gonna be true even by Tarasa Kaidesh, it's Allah nibayamar, or it's Afa ni loyahti elabi, or meaning we're asking in Sheetah S Rishua. What Rubyychanan would hold within Sheitah Sribishwa, what did he say? Does he limit his aloha to only Al Tarashuma? Or does he say me by even by Kochim? So and says the Gemara, Amayrain in Ubalibada Raby'ichan. Very easy. It's a machlaykis Amayrohim. Aliba to what Ruby Yaychenan said on Amaralif we had Rubychan and Rabbi Rahana quoting Rubyichanan saying that he only said it Altaira's ha Truma and not Al Tarasa Kohdesh. Afani loyah marty alabi truma. And on Amadday's, we have over here that he in the name of Rubychan, and it goes back that he said it even as relates to Truma, as relates to Karim, because it would be a loimi boy, and we'll hold it over here for today's show.