Exploring Neural Therapy and Chronic Illness: A Deep Dive with Dr. Anne Hill

Are you looking for a deeper understanding of the underlying causes of chronic illnesses? Promising to be a enlightening listen, we delve into a riveting conversation with naturopathic physician, Dr. Anne Hill, who uses functional medicine and introduces us to the power of Neural Therapy. This episode is packed with insightful discussions on the influence of dental health on overall wellbeing and the role neural therapy plays in restoring balance in our nervous system.

Grasping the significance of Neural Therapy for TMJ and oral health, we embark on a journey of understanding how shifting nerves from a sympathetic to a parasympathetic state can alleviate chronic congestion, inflammation, scar tissue and adhesions. Furthermore, we delve into the concerning issue of mold in the modern environment, its link to sinus treatments and tonsil injections, and new building practices contributing to this escalating issue.

Our conversation further ventures into gut health and its nexus with chronic infections. We discuss the increasingly prevalent mast cell activation syndrome and the phenomenon of long COVID, and how ozone treatments can effectively tackle bacteria, fungus, virus, and parasites. Hear Dr. Hill's valuable recommendations for various treatments and peek into her extensive knowledge through her website dedicated to Neural Therapy. This episode promises to broaden your perspective on health and the innovative treatments that can transform your wellbeing.

To learn more about Dr. Hill visit her website:

doctorannehill.com

To learn more about Dr. Hill's Neural Therapy training visit:

learnneuraltherapy.com


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To learn more about holistic dentistry, check out Dr. Carver's website:

http://carverfamilydentistry.com

To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at drcarver@carverfamilydentistry.com. 

Want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office?  Call her practice: 413-663-7372

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Transcript

Dr. Carver : 0:00

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Matter podcast with your host, me, dr Rachel Carver. On this podcast we talk a lot about how the oral system, oral cavity, has direct impact on the rest of the body. I'm very excited today to have Dr Ann Hill with us today, who's going to be talking a lot about neural therapy, which is something probably not a lot of you have ever heard of, but it is one of the most impactful treatments that I've ever learned In my therapy. I use it a lot for TMD issues. So, by way of introduction, dr Ann Hill she's joining us from the West Coast.

Dr. Carver : 0:39

She is a naturopathic physician. She uses functional medicine to get at the root cause. So working with a lot of people who have these chronic kind of mystery illnesses. Some of the big ones that she's working with which a lot of people struggle with are mast cell activation, long COVID and dysautonomia. So it's kind of a fancy term for when the nervous system is really at a balance, which is often really undiagnosed. But if your nervous system isn't functioning properly, if you don't have the proper balance and it doesn't matter how many supplements you take and all the kind of biohacking you really need that nervous system to work well.

Dr. Carver : 1:15

Dr Hill also. She teaches a lot of physicians and dentists how to use neural therapy and also does a lot. She really understands how dental health can impact the rest of the body. So she's very supportive with her patients to make sure they're oral care, which I greatly appreciate and all of us Demsweet greatly appreciate that you are recognizing that connection and really help making your patients well, because there's so much oral disease that goes undiagnosed that can one really impact the nervous system and cause a lot of systemic inflammation. So welcome and thank you for joining us. Why don't you tell us a little bit about kind of your journey, how you got on this and how neural therapy I mean, is that something you learned at school or something you came across later?

Dr. Hill: 1:57

Well, let's see way back to the beginning. I took an ERB class when I was in my mid-20s, in when I was living in New York City. I just finished getting a master's degree and I was so tired of history. That was what I got my master's degree in.

Dr. Hill: 2:15

I wanted to do something radically different, so I took an ERB class which was taught by a woman named Arcus Flynn and she was a radical ex-nurse and very political, and it totally like I just fell in love. And so ever since probably the age of 23, 24, I've been doing some kind of holistic medicine, learning with a lot of really amazing herbalists, and then I finally decided I needed a little bit more of a medical background, and I had no idea what a naturopathic doctor was. I'd never heard of one, but someone mentioned it to me and I was like, oh my God, that's what I need to do. It's a four-year medical school and we learn how to do primary care medicine as well as incorporating herbs and doing nutrition and all that stuff. So we did not have neuro therapy in school, but one of the things that we talk about when we graduate from naturopathic school is you become a what is it? A jack of all trades but master of none. So probably like regular medical school, like the people decide oh, I want to be an organic college as to an ENT or whatever. So when I got out, I really wanted to work with people and work with the nervous system, and I do a form of body work called craniosacral therapy and osteopathic manipulation. So I was already really interested in the, the fascial structures in the body and how the nervous system kind of correlates with our bodies functioning and working. So that's kind of what I focused on for a while. And then I honestly I think it was Kismet, like there was just some random email that came into my inbox.

Dr. Hill: 3:49

I had always wanted to learn prolotherapy but I was having kids at the time and I just didn't have time to like leave for a couple of days to take a seminar. And I wanted to learn prolotherapy because I always remember this, this great case that I had. I was a chef who came into one of the naturopathic clinics here in Portland and I was overseeing the case and he said do you guys do prolotherapy? And he said I got this prolotherapy treatment seven years ago and I was out of pain for seven years and now my pain started to come back. And because he was a chef, he had chronic tendonitis in both arms and so of course he'd be lifting two huge pans of food at a time and throwing food up and down, and so that's how he would get tendonitis. And I was like, no, but I gotta, I gotta learn that because I need to know how to get people out of pain for seven years. That's amazing. So. So I didn't learn that.

Dr. Hill: 4:41

But then this random email came in that said, there's this neural therapy class. And I was like, well, I don't know what that is. So I looked at it and it sounded kind of right up my alley because the the man who was teaching it was had talked quite a bit about not only helping the body to facilitate, like the nervous system's release of shock and trauma from physical encounters in the world, but also mental, emotional encounters. And I was like, oh, that's, that's totally cool. So I decided to do the neural therapy class and kind of fell in love. And now I do that probably with 90% of my patients. I know there's always the kids who I don't want to torture, and there's always, of course, the patients that it's more traumatic to get a, to get an injection than to not, so I usually leave them alone.

Dr. Carver : 5:30

So tell us a little bit what is normal therapy.

Dr. Hill: 5:34

Okay. So what is neural therapy is okay, so it's an injection therapy and it's basically it's been around since 1905. 1905 is when the very first local anesthetic, which is pro-cane, was invented by a chemist in in Germany and they realized they needed to. Before that they were using cocaine, but of course now we all know the term. Like supply chain problems, they had to put the stuff, everything on ships and like ship it all over. So they knew they it was problematic and they knew that they needed to try to figure out how to make something to help non people for surgeries. So they created pro-cane and and really literally right after they created pro-cane, they started using it for surgeries and they started noticing very interesting effects of it that were healing effects that went beyond what the person was just coming into surgery for. And I think one of the well, the first published paper was in 1945. Although there was many doctors that started using it at least the first published paper, I think in the English language, was in 1945.

Dr. Hill: 6:43

But there's many doctors that were using it and using it to help get people out of pain, using it to just help shift different things for people, and a couple well, dr Hunike, I don't know if I've I never know if I'm pronouncing his name he's probably the most famous one and he basically, once he started using pro-cane, he spent his career trying to figure out how does this stuff work?

Dr. Hill: 7:07

What is it doing, so, how?

Dr. Hill: 7:09

How we use it today is I guess I use it for several things.

Dr. Hill: 7:12

I think about it for the main, the main way that it's working is it's it's a, it's a sympathetic right, and so what that means, of course, to the audience that doesn't know, is that it is going to help the shift the nerves in that area where you're injecting it from the sympathetic nervous state to a parasympathetic state, and so that can do all sorts of things, and one of the things that I think about for that is that it actually will help with detoxification and help move infections and move lymph, and the reason why is because it's actually helping with that chronic congestion and inflammation that holds all of that stuff into the body.

Dr. Hill: 7:53

So I use it a lot for that, and it also because it's helping the nerves work better. It's really like a premier technique that we use for scar tissue which you can see on the outside of the body, and then adhesions which you can see on the inside or you can't see because we don't have extra vision. That's on the inside of the body. That's very difficult to diagnose. Yet we have lots and lots of patients every day that come in and say I've never been better since.

Dr. Hill: 8:19

I had my gallbladder removed or I had that surgery and now everything's really tight in my shoulder. So we know what that means is there's some something kind of stuck together that happened after the surgery and they think probably at least 95% of surgeries created adhesions. I mean, that's literally almost 100%. So we know trauma like that is going to create an adhesion for scar tissue somewhere in the body. That is then in turn going to potentially trap the body from being able to function properly and trap anything in the body, like any chronic inflammation or infections that have been introduced from surgery or infections that were there before, to then get worse.

Dr. Carver : 9:01

Yeah, so we've talked a little bit on the podcast before about Fasha, our last guest. One of our last guests, kelly Kennedy, talked a lot about lymph right, so we know. So this is a way we talked about different manual techniques and our CFT was one of the first podcast episodes we did. But so it's a very minor For the benefit. I mean the benefit way, way, way outweigh the small, tiny little prick you get here. And I know when I first learned it, when I was learned it when I was doing ozone therapy. So we learned the therapy called prola zone, so that what Dr Anne was talking about with prolo therapy is using pro cane to help with these pains, and when prolo zone we use pro cane and then we add ozone to further kill any infection or anything. That it also increases circulation. So it's just kind of an added added benefit there and there's really no major side effects with this, correct.

Dr. Hill: 9:57

I mean the we always have to screen for any allergies, right? I mean, anybody can be allergic to anything. I had one patient that ended up in the hospital at one point because they didn't know what else to diagnose it with. But allergy to water, it's like that's an interesting, interesting allergy to have for that moment. So, yeah, I typically will.

Dr. Hill: 10:17

I'll basically pro cane and novocaine, which is what Dennis use, are the same substance. However, with novocaine they're putting you guys are getting it with, I think, epinephrine in it or maybe you guys add it afterwards, but usually epinephrine's added. That's not what we add because we're not trying to stimulate the synthetic nervous system. And then, and then I think that there's some preservatives in novocaine that we do not want in the pro cane because it's reusing it for a whole different thing. So yeah, so what was the question? Again, the side effects, yeah, so I always screen people for that and it's usually pretty easy to screen for, because most of us have had novocaine, who are in the US anyway and have had dental, dental care, and so there's that. And then sometimes I do have patients that are.

Dr. Hill: 11:10

I'm more careful with patients who, if they take substances that relax them, that it gives them more anxiety. So that is actually can be really common with PTSD. So I usually ask a lot of questions about that. If I know what I'm dealing with with a lot of PTSD, or I will give them a very, very, very tiny treatment so it's not overwhelming, so that they can actually see how it makes them feel in their body, because they don't want to create more anxiety. But that, I feel like, is more rare and and neural therapy is actually used all the time for PTSD, so it is really an indicator for it. It's just sometimes there's that little caveat for some patients that they get worse and then and then after that the other side effects can be actually just from the injections themselves.

Dr. Hill: 11:56

I mean, anytime you inject anything into the body, there's always the possibility of introducing an infection if you're not using sterile techniques. But of course we've all been trained to use sterile techniques in this country, so we use that in our practices. And then other things. I think what I've seen the most is a vasovagal response, and I've actually gotten a vasovagal response myself from getting an injection in the doctor's office and like walking out and like suddenly like being on the floor and waking up and wondering what happened and we don't really know what causes a vasovagal response, right? So it's just something where you it's like you're probably because people are nervous about the injection, and then they can get a little feel a little faint, but that's pretty easy. We just make sure that we're elevating people's feet and helping them. Sometimes we give oxygen to people just to help bring them back into their bodies a little bit. So that was probably what went to me twice in I'd say, almost 10 years of doing it. So I wouldn't say it's super common.

Dr. Carver : 12:56

Yeah, I've been doing this for eight years and I've never. The worst outcome is that they don't get relief. But that's that's. I don't know, maybe 5, 10% of the time, otherwise it's profound. So I generally use it for people are having TMJ issues, right, and they've. They've had the splint, they've had this and maybe they've had ortho right.

Dr. Carver : 13:18

And we know a lot of. We talked about on the show too how traditional orthodonts we move the teeth but we ignore 90% of the other problems, of the reason why the teeth became crooked in the first place. So when we artificially try to move the teeth where the muscles and the joints aren't comfortable, then we tend to get can get the joint in the muscle issues. And so the way I come when we use it is you give a small injection. We make the way I learned you make a small little quadril, so you're not even injecting far, and the technique that I do for TMJ issues is a small little bubble. Basically it looks like kind of almost like a tiny little hive right and that's, and so that numbs the area a little bit and I tend to go right over into the joint space and then most of the time I'll go in the ozone after a few minutes and it's just profound within 48 hours. Patient usually feels complete relief and it tends to last quite a while. So that's a technique I use.

Dr. Carver : 14:17

What? How do you treat your patients who may have TMJ or other oral? What else do you treat that's in head and neck?

Dr. Hill: 14:24

Oh yeah, that's. That's a good question. I'm kind of going rogue with my dental injections and just so we don't. One of the things I do a lot is I refer a lot of patients to there's. We have a couple of different dentists in Portland that my patients really like a lot, who are trying to get to the root cause of things and who they have CT combing scans.

Dr. Hill: 14:47

So a lot of times I'm suspicious of long term infections underneath the teeth that you can't see. Oftentimes they're from root canals that were never cleaned out. We don't correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that we properly clean root canals out in this country. I think we just pull the nerve out and then shove the gut, approach it in there and call it good. But oftentimes the root canals or the teeth are inflamed because there's there's an infection that is then never really totally dealt with. So then it just becomes an infection that's locked in the jaw and starts to faster.

Dr. Hill: 15:23

So I send a lot of people for that, and the dentist that I use a lot he does pro cane as well and he'll do pro cane in those own injections, and then what I have people do is if I send them for the to get evaluated and they have cavitations and then they get the surgery with the dentist. I'm kind of like I want to make sure that that does not come back, because early on in my career when I started sending people to Dennis, they would go see amazing dentist, really good dentist who knew how to do the surgeries, but oftentimes the infections would come back and that's actually considered one of the things that can happen. So I saw just too many patients that that was happening with and I'm like I don't think that we can. We can't really our eyes cannot microscopically see that if the infection is there we can scrape away the bone. That's like has that we can see is infected.

Dr. Hill: 16:14

But so what I've been having patients do is come in once a month for a year and getting ozone and prokine injection to the tooth or the teeth that they've had. That they've had some head cavitation surgery on. I have no idea. That's not based on any studies and I tell them that I'm like I don't know. But what I do know is that you've just had this surgery and I really want to do everything that we can to try and prevent any infection from coming back. So I always like to. So that's what I've been doing.

Dr. Carver : 16:49

Well, I think that's great because I also think I started to think a little bit more interesting about cavitations. I was at a presentation from Cell Core at their Eco Conference in May and one of the doctors presented this case of this woman with cavitation went on for seven years before they realized what it was. She started having all sorts of systemic issues and made me think that cavitations lots of people get teeth extracted all the time but not everybody gets cavitations right. So why would somebody get it? Again, I think it's their predisposition. They already have a body full of toxins right. Then you take out a tooth and now all these microbes are like hey, look at that spot over there where the immune system can't see us right. They can go travel to that area that has not killed in yet and they can be happy and lovely, it's nice and warm in there, but they're not getting. The immune system can't get to them because there's no more blood supply to those areas, because I've seen plenty of cases where a tooth was extracted and a piece was left behind and they don't get a cavitation right.

Dr. Carver : 17:51

So again, I think it's that body that already has a lot of these toxins or microbes that makes you more susceptible to cavitation. So when you get that cavitation cleaned out, what if those toxins are still in the body? Right, and so I think your technique is amazing, right? So once a month they're coming back, because ozone, we know, can kill all of those kind of infections. It creates circulation, so the immune system can get there to flush out anything that might be left behind. So I think that's an amazing strategy, right? Because just because you clean the cavitation, if they're still toxic, it's probably going to fill up again, right, and so that may be why you can get reinfected. So, good job, that's a great case. You put that one all of one.

Dr. Hill: 18:37

Intuition Because if one works, more must be better. Sometimes that actually is an adage that works. But I'm glad you brought up the body's toxins because the other thing that early on so I've been treating also mold illness for a long time I do a lot of environmental stuff in my practice and I'd say this just happened too many times Like it was like, okay, the universe is trying to tell me something here. So there was many people early on that we were starting to treat them for mold. We were doing the binders, getting the stuff out of their body and starting to treat them internally. To knowing that most people who've been in a moldy situation have either candida or some other kind of fungal overgrowth in the mucosal membranes, the sinuses and the gut. And I would say there was at least three patients within six months that I was doing this with that called me up saying help, my, I have a tooth and it's rotting and falling out of my mouth and I was like, oh, this is interesting. And they were all upper teeth and what I realized is, wow. And then I really started looking at a lot of the x-rays and then the CT scans and talking to the dentist and just seeing that sinus floor and how close it is to the roots of the teeth, I was like, wow, this is amazing.

Dr. Hill: 19:58

So I don't know whether it was. Was it the mold and the fungus and the sinuses that was then translating down and creating infection in the roots of the teeth? Or was it stuff in the roots of the teeth that you know what I mean? That was like making everything worse. So I don't know what happens first, but I know that that's an area you asked me about. What are some of the other head injections I do? I do a ton of sinuses. I see a lot of patients with chronic mold, chronic sinus infections, so I also like to do. We have a sinus treatment where we go kind of around on the outside and we put in the procane and we put in ozone and that is super helpful for all my patients.

Dr. Carver : 20:37

Yeah, it's amazing, once I started using that CVCT, the stuff that we would see in the sinuses and you ask patients oh, do you feel that? No, I feel nothing. Their whole sinus could be completely full of fluid and they're like I don't feel anything. Or we'll see things that look almost like a pollen, like a mushroom kind of thing. And unfortunately, our ENTs around here, the couple of cases I've sent to them, they're like it's fine. I'm like what do you mean? It's fine, like there's not supposed to be, it's supposed to be air in your sinuses. That's interesting. I'll have to come learn that technique from you because I give a lot of oxygen sprays and Kelly Kenney, she's going to be teaching me a little naso. There's a performance you can do with the naso's.

Dr. Carver : 21:15

I need to kind of learn that because it is a problem and mold is insidious, right. I mean that's one of those that's hard to get rid of. So many of us are suffering from it and the problem is mold's obviously been around since before humans existed. But I think the problem today is because of this toxic world we live in. The molds are becoming more toxic, right, because they react to the same kind of toxins that we do so now they're angry, right. So their toxins that they're giving off are more dangerous. And mold, I mean again in your sinus. That is just one small little membrane away from our brain and I think most of us really want to protect the brain, so sinus treatment is really important.

Dr. Hill: 21:52

Well, that's one of the main things that all my mold patients have. They all have brain fog and memory issues, and yeah, so the other thing that has changed that a lot of us talk about in the mold nerd world, I like to call it those of us who pay attention to all that is building practices have changed too, and so drywall took over in the 70s from Laugh and Plaster, and drywall is an amazing substrate for growing mold. And then also we're trying to build these buildings that really can't breathe. So we kind of went one way for a while with these buildings that, like they did this with our house, they had to put a fan, like a constantly running fan, in the bathroom, and I'm like that seems silly, like why put so much insulation and encapsulate it so much that the moisture just from our breath can't even get out? So now they're starting to realize the error of those ways. So that's coming back to and they're starting to not make them quite like that anymore. But yeah, so there's those factors as well.

Dr. Carver : 22:57

What about soil and tonsils? Do you do any treatment with tonsils?

Dr. Hill: 23:00

Oh, yeah, yeah, and actually I just that one, do you do that one too? So that one I would say is the least, is the quickest, the least painful injection and the one that people really have to ruminate over for a long life. They're like what do you want to do? And I'm like, oh, not really injecting directly in the tonsils. Yeah, I actually just had one patient that I presented it to her a long time ago.

Dr. Hill: 23:29

She has chronic gastritis, chronic pancreatitis, chronic and really horrible nausea that we're we're suppressing or we're helping with glutathione and IVs, but she has to really come in like the ones that were used Five to six weeks to get that done. So anyway, so it's like then she had strep throat. She had, her whole family had horrible strep throat. She's like me, my mom, my sisters, we all had to get her tonsils out at like in our early 20s, and she said they were totally diseased. I'm like, well, that infection is still trapped in the scar tissue, so, anyway. So I think I presented it to her about six months ago and we've tried everything else and I think she's finally at the breaking point. She's like, okay, I might let you inject my tonsils. So, yeah, so I love to do the tonsils.

Dr. Carver : 24:18

I mean, I feel like that's especially because I focus so much on the gut and and if I explain that to us, because what I found in the last few years, especially in my kids, is the swollen tonsils. I mean, probably more than half come in with really swollen tonsils and they all tell me oh, the pediatrician says it's fine. I'm like that is immune tissue, like is not supposed to be swollen. And this is the thing that drives me nuts. Things are common. Doesn't make them normal, right? I mean, there's so many things that are common today. Doesn't make them normal. And so explain. And so when I see the patient, I'm like this is telling me you have major gut inflammation. So explain to us how are the tonsils related to the gut and why? That's a sign that we need to focus on some gut therapies.

Dr. Hill: 25:06

Well, well, if you think, I mean, it's all one big long tube and so, and that's what, that's what I was realizing as, oh, we in medicine which of course you totally understand this as a dentist you guys are like totally the outliers. Oh, the mouth is no part of the human body whatsoever. Like we're not even going to.

Dr. Carver : 25:24

That's not a part of your insurance plan.

Dr. Hill: 25:26

That's just extra care. Nobody really needs that, no, but we this is what we've done and in some ways in medicine we needed to, we needed to create specialties, we needed to really focus on things. But now we need to come back and I think that was is the problem is, and even in my profession, all the functional medicine people, all the naturopaths that are just focusing on the gut. They're only thinking about stomach, esophagus, stomach, small intestine, large intestine. That's it Good to go, that's, but that's just simply not the case.

Dr. Hill: 25:56

I have a really an interesting case kind of more recently. I'm waiting to see, I think it's been almost nine months out, but a guy with chronic gastritis and he we kind of we did everything. We did all the, all the supplements, all the nutrients, we looked for infections, treated the infections. He went in and he said, oh, he got his endoscopy and he said, oh, the doctors said I still have it, I'm not a symptomatic but I still have it. And I said we really, we, I think we really need because he had some significant mouth, like dental history, and I was like I think you really need to get that CT scan done. He went, he got the CT scan, went to an amazing dentist in New York City and loved working with her and she he had, I think, a couple of cavitations and so she did the cavitation surgery and after that completely shifted, like that, and so his gut is totally better now. So we'll have to see if that holds. But I was like, yeah, I knew it. Like this is, we have to do this because all of this gravity goes down, so all of the stuff that's up here is going to go down and and affect the rest of the gut.

Dr. Hill: 27:04

So I talk about that a lot, especially with, with with mold patients. You cannot, you can never just treat the mold and get it out of the body. You can't just give glutathione, a binder called good. You have to do the sinuses. And if you're treating the sinuses you have to also give an oral antifungal, because whatever you're washing from the sinuses down goes all the way down into the gut and then it could make the gut worse and the gut's probably already off anyway. And most of these patients with mold so same thing with with having any kind of chronic infections, it all like these it's. It's such a tight, tiny little space in here. You got your sinuses, you have these station tubes and the esophagus and you're it's all right in there. So it's not like there's any border walls to like separate one area from another. It's all there. So it's all going to be affected and it's going to affect the whole gastrointestinal system.

Dr. Carver : 28:00

I might know if you mentioned that oral taking, oral something for fungus, because I think where a lot of people go down that rabbit hole where they just are given constant antibiotics for sinus issues when a lot of times it's actually fungal right.

Dr. Hill: 28:14

Yeah, I think in the studies it was even like they even had a percentage For some reason. I'm remembering like 70% fungus, 30% bacterial, so it's like, okay, that's a lot of fungal stuff. Yeah, and actually I scarily enough, there is a whole thing coming out now about the newer kind of funguses that are coming up. I think it started in India just right after COVID and now finally in this country we're seeing these really horrible funguses that are actually deadly and there's a new book about it.

Dr. Hill: 28:46

If you want to like, totally get into the fungal nerd world that came out written by this female. That sounded great. I was listening to an interview with her on NPR, but anyway, just an aside.

Dr. Carver : 28:59

And again why I've always loved ozone treatments because it can tackle the bacteria, the fungus, virus, parasites. I think we all. It's great.

Dr. Hill: 29:08

Yeah, well, that's actually thinking about all this stuff that's coming up and all the bugs that we know are becoming resistant to antibiotics. I'm like I think we all really need to have ozone machines in our houses. I mean, I'm grateful that I have one in my office and like if I have something going on, I can drag my kids down there and my husband down there. But yeah, this is the Ozone is the one thing we don't know of any resistance to that. It just has a totally different mechanism that it's working for these bugs.

Dr. Carver : 29:38

And it's so safe? Right, because there really are. It's an amazing therapy and it's kind of sad that it's not. Yeah, I was using mine so much and my office is like half an hour away from my home, so I bought one to have at home. I'm like, oh, it's such a pain, and anytime my kids get sick, I've traumatized my daughter, my younger one especially, and I've given her lots of treatments. She can't stand the smell. I think it triggers some PTSD in her, but it works, it's amazingly effective. So, oh, I'm just you know what.

Dr. Hill: 30:09

I should mention this too, that I'm doing with my kids. My kids have my husband's teeth, which are they have really really deep grooves and this is something I don't have any published studies on but both of them, at several points, have had the beginnings of cavities and the dentist are like, oh, why don't you bring them back in? We're going to have to do a filling. And I'm like and I brought them in and I put ozone, I just have them hold their breath. I just pop ozone on the back molars where they have those deep grooves, have them blow out, so they're not going to breathe the ozone in.

Dr. Hill: 30:43

And, yes, I'm probably giving them PTSD too because they're like oh mom, you have to, but when I brought them back to the dentist, it's not there anymore. It kills off that bacteria which is amazing.

Dr. Carver : 30:55

I had a the first time I took the X-rays with my older daughter had all her permanent teeth. One of the teeth looked like it had a cavity and when you can see it in the X-ray it's actually quite significant. And I was surprised. She never had any issues in her baby teeth and when you looked clinically you couldn't see anything. So I and I hemmed and hugged because I'm like ugh, I don't want to leave it, but I don't really want to open it either. So I did, I brought her home and I did a regimen of ozone and every day I just I put it right on that tooth, I gave her injections, also above the tooth, and I waited I don't know, maybe six months.

Dr. Carver : 31:31

I took another X-ray. The X-ray still looked the same. So at the time I was like, do I leave it, do I not? Ooh, I don't. And I just got in my laser. So I'm like, well, I'll just use a laser, I won't have to number up and maybe it'll be small. And when I opened it up I was shocked there was Again. When you looked on the X-ray it looked like it was going to be huge and significant and there was barely anything there. And so, even though on the X-ray it still looked like it was there, the ozone had completely killed it and it was starting to totally heal on itself. So then I was like, ugh, I should have just kept going, but it's a learning lesson for me. And she got. She was like that wasn't that bad, but I don't ever want to do that again. I'm like great, it was a good lesson for her. But yeah, it's amazing for that. And again, a lot of these HomoZone machines aren't crazy expensive.

Dr. Carver : 32:17

You can get them for about $1,000, which it's not cheap, but when you think about All the things you can do with it.

Dr. Carver : 32:24

Everything for your life, I mean, and the bang that you get for your buck is enormous because there are so many great and things you can do at home are things like rectal insufflation, vaginal insufflation, limb bagging. So one time my daughter had this nasty infection on her knee. She got a small scrape and then she picked at it and it became this big abscess and I didn't want to take it at ER because I knew they were just going to anabioxan steroids and I'm like, nope, I don't want to do that, so I put her.

Dr. Carver : 32:52

I used those in olive oil, I used essential oils and just put her in the bag and she would sit for like 10 minutes and you let the ozone just and it took probably three weeks to completely heal, whereas anabioxan steroids it would have been better in a couple of days. But with those kind of methods it just pushes the infection deeper into the tissue, into the fascia right, exactly which I didn't want to do. So, yes, it took longer to heal, but it's healed and I got rid of that infection instead of just suppressing it deeper in the system for it to manifest later down the line as some other issue. So that's the one caveat Like these, natural things do take longer, but it's much better in the long run.

Dr. Hill: 33:33

Well, not always though. I had one of my first experiences after I took I don't know if you probably studied with Schellenberger, because he does the Brolozone. Longevity gave us the designated olive oil, sanctus, and I brought it home and it was really interesting because my son came home and my husband from that conference with the oil and my husband's like what's this? And my son had gotten Moluscom contagiosum, which is a viral. It's a dermatological illness. You get these weird little pock things on your skin. They don't know what causes it. They don't know how to get rid of it.

Dr. Hill: 34:14

It's supposed to last upward of, I think, three months or more. I'm like, oh okay, well, why don't I try this? It was an adele oil and he smelled terrible and it ruined his pajamas. I could never get that ozone smell out, but it was gone. I was like, wow, that's amazing.

Dr. Carver : 34:31

That is the most wonderful stuff and I'm so sad that longevity has closed their doors now because Puro3 makes one very similar but it's not nearly as potent, for whatever reason. But I travel with that stuff. That is gold. It's amazing. Dickey olea Anywhere, you would think. I tell my patients where you might want to use Neosporin. No, use the Ozoneate and olive oil because you won't get the antibiotic resistance.

Dr. Carver : 34:53

It covers the fungus, the bacteria, the virus, the parasite, without any of the side effects. So that is amazing, amazing stuff. I think Puro3, you can get on Amazon and it's something that everybody should have in their first aid kit. Anywhere you get a cut or a scrape you can use it in the mouth. It's a little bit chlorine-y tasting, but excellent. We give patients. We have a different brand called Olive Gold that we use in the mouth. We have that. We put a little squirt of that and that looks like olive oil. The Ozoneate and olive oil, the longevity one we're talking about, looks more like Vaseline.

Dr. Hill: 35:26

But this other brand we what's the one you put in the mouth? Is that the switch?

Dr. Carver : 35:32

No, it looks just like olive oil, so it's more of a liquid consistency versus the Vaseline and that we have. People just put it right on their toothbrush and you brush with that. Because the way I've evolved in thinking is I don't want to kill things in the mouth, right, because then you're not really addressing why they became pathogen. The first thing I want to do is I want to create a really healthy environment so that the bad bugs never proliferate in the first place. So by and the olive gold is loaded with vitamins and minerals, so you add that into your. Sometimes people that don't want to change toothpaste and like, fine, just put it on top of your toothpaste then and brush with that, put a little on your palm and rub your floss through it and then floss in between the teeth with the Ozoneate, because you're putting the minerals there and you're putting the good healthy fats right and the oxygen. So all of that is really beneficial for the good bacteria and keeps the gum super, super healthy and, again, with no side effects. So if you can tolerate a little bit of the chloriney taste, that's a really effective way to keep in the mouth.

Dr. Carver : 36:31

I like that one. Yeah, and awesome. Why don't you say now you're kind of been specialing a lot in the mast cell. That's a really tricky one and a lot of people really struggle with that. So I know this isn't specifically mouth related, but I've had a couple, a lot of patients who have this and they really can't tolerate dental procedures well, but I mean, even though I'm as biologic as I can be, dentistry is still toxic. I mean, we're still using resins because that's all we have at this time. So how can? What is it, by the way, and how do you try to treat that?

Dr. Hill: 37:05

Well, okay, well, first of all, this is something that I think every physician needs to kind of hone up on, because it is something that is. What we're seeing in the US is getting a lot worse, and what it is is it's actually something that's kind of a newer diagnosis mass cell activation syndrome. There's something called master's cytosis, which is totally different. That's actually where your bone marrow creates too many mass cells, and mass cells in the body are the cells that they. I always liken them to Dan Ackroyd and John Blushy and the Blues Brothers. Those are your mass cells in your body. They are not going to let anybody uncool come into your club, and that's exactly what they do.

Dr. Hill: 37:50

And they are not every single tissue of the body, because, if you think about it right, if you cut yourself, you don't want to even wait two seconds for the bloodstream to be like oh okay, let's get this stuff over there. You need it in the tissues and you need the mass cells to. Basically, they have a bunch of granules. They explode that help with fighting things off right away. The other thing that they explode with is histamine, and this is really essentially what people are getting in terms of symptoms when they have mass cells that are what we would call sort of hyperactive, and so that's why it's kind of difficult to diagnose too, because there's really no blood tests that are really super accurate for mass selectivation because of the fact that they're not just floating around in the bloodstream. They're floating around in the bloodstream when you're having a major histamine attack, but most people are not going to be going to get their blood drawn at that moment in time.

Dr. Hill: 38:49

And then the other thing is that with mass selectivation, because it's in all the tissues, it looks kind of different for every person. For some people it might be gastrointestinal pain, for some people it might be chronic headaches, for some people it might be inflamed joints or musculoskeletal pain. So yeah, again, it's kind of like can look different in everybody. But what we think is happening really, again, looking at root cause and why we think this is becoming so much more ubiquitous in our population, is because we are just facing that many more toxins in our environment and infections from having lowered immune systems and just collecting more infections. And also there's a lot of people that are talking about that too that we just have more, especially with global warming, where we're getting more infections. Just this last year there's been cases of malaria in Texas and Florida.

Dr. Carver : 39:54

My father was just diagnosed with malaria.

Dr. Hill: 39:56

Oh, my God. Yeah, we were in Babisi, and malaria.

Dr. Carver : 40:00

We had been in Destin, the panhandle of Florida, kind of near those areas, I mean how random, is that? Yeah, and this is not something that they've ever had there.

Dr. Hill: 40:10

So we do know that the environment is changing. Our food is more toxic, our water is more toxic, and so what I would say is what's happening is a healthy response to an incredibly unhealthy environment that we're in, and we're only going to be seeing more of it, and so, yeah, it's unfortunate. But we do have some good medications and herbs that we can give patients, but mostly we're trying to do a lot of detoxification and just get the toxins out and treat the infections so that they don't keep having those reactions. But you have to really use the medications to kind of stabilize the mast cells before you can do anything Because, like you noticed, even the stuff that's good for people they can't do because their body is so highly reactive. So, yeah, so interesting.

Dr. Carver : 41:03

But again, note, with these chronic illnesses we are not treating the symptoms. If you want to get resolution, you've got to get it, as I say over and over probably every podcast the toxins and infections which are causing all of these problems. So that's where we need to look.

Dr. Hill: 41:22

And we see too where, kind of, because a lot of allergists will see these patients and they'll put them on the stabilizing medications but then they're not treating the root cause. So then the patients who have been on these stabilizing medications where you're not treating the root cause, will now be wondering. You know my office and saying now I'm going to be breaking through and I'm having all the same symptoms, but I'm like I've increased the doses significantly and reacting to more things, so yeah.

Dr. Carver : 41:53

How about long COVID? That's a big, big thing. I've kind of thought of it as more like an autoimmune condition, right Because of the toxin and the infection overload in a person who already has a diminished or out of balance immune system. That's kind of what long COVID is had. But I'm not a physician, so tell us your thoughts.

Dr. Hill: 42:14

Well, all of us who were in the mass cell world were like, oh, this is mass cell activation syndrome. I mean it is, and it's also dysautonomia, and oftentimes mass activation and dysautonomia or more specifically, POTS, which is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, and that's where your nervous system and your cardiovascular system cannot regulate, so like a really like one of the things that most people will say is, oh, I bend over to pick something up and I, if I stand up quickly, I feel like I'm in the past, and that's because you're asking your body to increase the blood pressure really quickly, to bring it up to your head. And if your cardiovascular system is working really well, you should be able to do it like that and not have any symptoms. But if your blood, your cardiovascular system, is like cuttering along and there's and there's a lot of inflammation, it's like, oh God, okay, and so then you'll start having symptoms from just not being able to regulate that very well. So really it's both of those and that's actually how.

Dr. Hill: 43:13

So I'm kind of treating it. I'm treating it with mass cell stabilizers, I'm treating it with things that I would normally treat POTS patients with, like we're doing electrolytes, rehydrating, salt, and we're also doing oftentimes and this is actually like you'll get this from a regular Western medical doctor too. Like propranolol, beta blockers work really well to help people sleep, because that's the problem as you lay down at night and you're like, one of my favorite quotes from this patient I saw is he said who had long COVID. He said I feel like my heart has been replaced by that of a small scared animal, Like I'm imagining that you feel a little like a squirrel who's running with right now. So really that kind of helps with just blocking some of the heart receptors so that the heart can stay calm, so that patients can sleep, because you also can't heal if you can't sleep right. That's such an important part of the process. And then I do antivirals, antiviral therapy, and so that's kind of been how a lot of us have been treating it.

Dr. Hill: 44:18

There's other things that are coming out now. Dr Patterson is the MD I think he's in California. He started some of the early long COVID clinics and he is came up with this whole cytokine panel that they just started looking at people's cytokines and their immune components and trying to figure it out and compare it with, which is great, which is amazing. I'm sure that his contribution to. Our understanding of the immune system is really just beginning for us to, because we're always like, oh, TNFL, Interleukin-6. But what does that mean? We don't really know a lot about how these things interact with everything in the system, including all of our neurotransmitters and hormones and all of them. So I just noticed that Igenics, which is the big lab that does a lot of the Lyme testing in this country, is going to bring his panel in to do the cytokines. He's starting to do some trainings. I love that because I know it'll just help us learn and understand so much more about this spike protein and more ways to treat it.

Dr. Carver : 45:23

I'm going to know how many of these long COVID patients have root canals or cavitations or underlying infections and inflammation in the mouth Because, again, I'm working with a new system. It's a screening tool called SILHA and it detects seven different markers in the saliva.

Dr. Carver : 45:44

Even in somebody who seemingly has no gum disease, there's no bleeding, there's no bone loss. You'll still see elevated protein or white blood cells. To me I'm like something's going on in the gut. When the gut is out, about which all of us have some degree of leaky gut just because of the world we live in today. But when that the gut, like you were saying at the beginning, it's all connected, it's one tube, it's the same tissue, it's one cell layer thick.

Dr. Carver : 46:12

When the gut and this is the thing you were talking about what comes first, the chicken or the day? It's the gut or is it the mouth? I think it's a two-way street. They both interact with each other.

Dr. Carver : 46:21

You could have a healthy mouth, but if your gut's inflamed and I did the test myself and I found this I have a healthy mouth, but my gut I'm always working my gut between stress and eating the right foods and all that good stuff I had some inflamed gut and it showed in my mouth as inflammation. I was like ooh. So it made me even change my oral regimen a little bit more to be a little bit more with more oxygen, more of that olive oil. So again, somebody with overt gum disease or root canals that may be part of the long COVID. It's not the cause, I would say, but another burden on the immune system, and that's how I talk to my patients. Do I think all root canals need to be pulled up? Not necessarily, but if you're somebody who has my one long COVID patient had 12 root canals Wow, oh my gosh.

Dr. Carver : 47:11

So I'm like and he needed another one. I said I don't recommend that. But if you are healthy as a horse, you have no issues, Do you need to get every root canal pulled out of your chest? No, If you're somebody who has these autoimmune or chronic inflammation and all sorts of issues, then yes, I do think it could be contributing. And since the mouth is so accessible, that's a great place to start. It's easy, you can see the result, Whereas trying to heal leaky gut I mean that's a lot more challenging than taking out a tooth. I mean, nobody wants to lose a tooth, but hey, if it's going to save the rest of you, we have ways to replace them.

Dr. Hill: 47:47

Well, I remember reading with fascination early on I think it was like in May. There was an article. In May of 2020, there was an article about in New York Times or something that all these dentists are starting to see people coming in way more frequently with teeth falling out of their mouth.

Dr. Hill: 48:08

Once COVID started, and how I see what's happening is that I always think about my neurology class and I have this great professor and what he talked about is what we know about the brain is the brain can only hang on to so many things at one time. We think that we're amazing multitaskers, but we aren't, and I think the studies that they've done show that after about six things, we start to fail at doing some of the tasks well, and I think that's really the whole immune system. I think the immune system can only hold on to so many things at one time. And so what I was reading, what was happening is, oh, suddenly there's this new illness that the immune system is like whoa, what is this thing? And it was probably keeping at bay those infections in those people's mouths, and then it was like, oh, my God, I got to get all my friends over here because there's this new thing going on.

Dr. Carver : 49:03

So it ran over to the side proteins.

Dr. Hill: 49:06

And then suddenly, now it wasn't able to hold the damn back anymore.

Dr. Carver : 49:14

And so I totally agree, because that's what I see the most thing. I haven't necessarily seen teeth falling out, but what I see is an enormous amount of really fast decay right at the gum line, whereas within months the tooth is almost to the point where it might have to be taken out because the decay is bound so bad, and so that is an area in the mouth and the tooth right where it's a little less mineralized. So when your body is super toxic with whatever this new thing is, you toxicity creates deficiency, right, so we need minerals. When we get toxic, we get acidic, right, and it's the minerals that really help balance and neutralize that pH.

Dr. Carver : 49:54

Where are our minerals stored? Our teeth and our bones, right? So then, literally, are getting pulled out of our teeth and bones in order to save our internal organs. We're going to sacrifice the teeth to save that. So that's what I think too, right, we just you're right. All these things are kind of at bay, and then you get the next thing. I absolutely believe it's like with that analogy of the bucket being full, right, people feel like I all of a sudden got sick.

Dr. Hill: 50:20

Well, no, it was probably 10, 20 years, Wait, we don't all no, we don't all of a sudden get cancer.

Dr. Carver : 50:25

That's like a 20 year process, right. But it's that point where you know that last little thing just puts us over the edge. Or people say all the time oh, it was that root canal. After that root canal, I got X, y and Z. After I had my baby right, this is a common one.

Dr. Carver : 50:39

A lot of women get autoimmune diseases after the baby because man, that just sucks the life out of us literally, right. So, yeah, it's always that balance right. And I think that the key to health right we talk about home is balance right, because we can never avoid all of the toxin. But how can we, how can we manage them? How can we support the bodily functions that need to help us with that in order to, because we're not supposed to be sterile, right, we're supposed to have bacteria and fungus, like that's all a natural part. So we have to get away from that whole idea of we better kill all the bad stuff, what we call that. No, we need to balance, because we all have, like, the bad period on old bugs in our body at all times, but it's again when that environment changes where it becomes problematic. So we need to kind of rethink that. I think yeah.

Dr. Hill: 51:28

I think the germ theory and the came out at the exact same time as the theory of the environment, with Henry Lynn Lahr and some of the early kind of natural doctors and the germ, basically medicine, threw away all the other theories.

Dr. Hill: 51:42

There's like it's all germs but it's like no maybe we focused on that for a while but it's the germs, it's us and it's our environment, and we have to figure out what the balance of that is. So we really are, I think, about a lot of medicine now is. It's fascinating to me, because a lot of the stuff that we dumped in the trash in the late 1800s, early 1900s, because suddenly the subsurgery and antibiotics were invented, now we're coming back to, and now some of the like ozone's been around since the late 1800s and we're suddenly realizing, oh, we actually need to have more options because we're running out of options, especially in terms of antibiotics, and so I think it's kind of cool. So a lot of this stuff is like already been around and thoughts on how our bodies are working has been around, it's just been, it's just been put in the garbage.

Dr. Carver : 52:34

So now we're going to take it out, clean it off and start coming from a new perspective from all of this, and especially from the teeth and the body, the rectus right, but it's an important point that you say some people say, oh, you do ozone, you're doing prolo therapy, prolozone, and they think there are these brand new woo-hoo, crazy things and people are afraid. But ozone, like you said, it's been around since 1800s. You just said neural therapy was the first paper written about it, so even before that, it's in the early 1900s, so and these things have an incredible safety. Right now, in this country where they're trying to, fda is trying to regulate all our homeopathic medications, which there's not a single episode of somebody being harmed by a homeopathic, whereas over 100,000 people a year die from Tylenol. Right, but people are more hesitant to take a little sugar pill of a homeopathic than they would Tylenol. But that's the reality. So that's what's scary that we have these governmental forces that are.

Dr. Carver : 53:33

That is why these things got kind of got to have poo pooed. Right, they're not making as much money, but these are the things that are beneficial the homeopathy, the ozone, all these natural therapies that have 100 years of evidence behind them, versus all these pharmaceuticals that come up that have what? A three year each. They're supposed to have an FDA trial of at least three years, right, three years compared to 100 for these natural ones. So part of the reason I want to do this podcast right is to create this awareness that there are the, there are options, there are alternatives that are proven and effective. But we just need to create that awareness right. We need to show people and have people know that, and there are those of us, like you and me, who are employing some of these practices and we do get do get good results. So, as we're wrapping up here, is there anything else that you would like to talk about?

Dr. Hill: 54:28

Well, if I can just plug my our classes. I know you're I'm not sure. I'm sure that you probably have other doctors listening as well as patients, but my teaching partner and I are putting on classes in neural therapy and we're trying to do them a couple of times a year to get more doctors interested and get trained well trained in safe, effective pain killing, lymphatic moving methods of to add into their practices. So in, and I have a. The website for that is learnneurotherapycom. Really simple and then, yeah, I think that's it. So thank you for having me.

Dr. Carver : 55:10

Thank you so much for taking your time on your Friday to come and talk with all of us and I look forward to talk to you real soon. And thanks everybody, we'll see you on the next episode.