The Root of the Matter
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The Root of the Matter
Unlocking the Secrets of Copper: A Journey to Reclaiming Health With Morley Robbins
Imagine discovering that a century of nutritional advice has been leading us astray, and that the true root of chronic disease might be hiding in plain sight. That's exactly what happened when I sat down with Morley Robbins, creator of the Root Cause Protocol and author of "Cure Your Fatigue."
Robbins's journey from hospital administrator to health researcher began with a personal health crisis, frozen shoulder, that conventional medicine couldn't solve. This led him to question everything he thought he knew about human physiology. What he uncovered was shocking: copper, not iron, is our body's "innate healer," yet medical training has systematically ignored its critical importance while promoting excessive iron supplementation.
The conversation takes us deep into the intricate dance between minerals in our body, specifically how copper regulates both iron and oxygen metabolism. When copper becomes deficient, iron accumulates in tissues, creating oxidative stress (essentially rust) that damages mitochondria and depletes our energy production. This mineral dysregulation manifests as fatigue, inflammation, dental decay, and vulnerability to infections.
Perhaps most eye-opening is Robbins's explanation of how our food supply has been systematically depleted of copper since World War I, when NPK fertilizers began blocking copper uptake in plants. The situation has worsened dramatically with the introduction of glyphosate (Roundup), which Robbins explains chelates copper from soil at rates a billion times faster than calcium, a staggering difference that has decimated the nutritional content of our food.
Robbins challenges conventional wisdom on several fronts, including vitamin D supplementation (which he argues can drive iron deeper into tissues) and standard interpretations of blood work. When examining my own lab results, he pointed out how low ferritin levels might indicate parasitic infection rather than true iron deficiency, and how the copper-iron relationship tells a much deeper story than conventional markers.
If you've been struggling with unexplained fatigue, inflammation, or health issues that don't respond to conventional approaches, this conversation could be transformative. Discover why the "battery" of your body might be running low, and how restoring proper mineral balance could be the key to reclaiming your health and energy.
Ready to learn more? Visit https://therootcauseprotocol.com/ or explore Morley's book "Cure Your Fatigue" to dive deeper into this paradigm-shifting approach to health.
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Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Matter. I am your host, dr Rachel Carver, and I am very excited to introduce you guys to somebody I've really been looking up to. I've read all his books. One of my hygienists is doing his entire Root Codes Protocol program and we hope to incorporate that into our practice at home. So very excited. This is Morley Robbins and I would love for you to tell us. You have a really interesting journey in how you got into kind of nutrition right. You're not a. You started in more of a conventional field, correct? Tell us your story.
Speaker 2:I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah, I'm a I affectionately refer to myself as a pre-med retread and I grew up in a very sickly family. My mom was an alcoholic and had all sorts of heart issues. My dad was manic, depressive, with schizophrenia. My older sister chose to become a nurse. So I was supposed to become a doctor Until I got to college and found out oh my gosh, this is really. This is a lot of work.
Speaker 2:So medical schools had a different opinion about my capacity. So if you're not going to be a doctor, you go into management and run hospitals, which is what I did. Went to business school. There's a very different philosophy in business school than in medical school. Maybe you know this from your dental training as well. What seems to run clinical education is not known because not looked for Very interesting way to describe it. It's a very scripted set of things that practitioners look for. But in business school, very different philosophy. What gets measured gets managed. So we focus on revenue and expense and profit for a reason, and I've carried that philosophy over into my work in nutrition and healing. But I did hospital management for 12 years, then became a consultant for 20 years solving the problems of hospital organizations. I was pretty good at helping them grow. Now I can close pretty quickly with what I know.
Speaker 2:But for 20 years I was pulling a suitcase behind my back and I developed frozen shoulder. I couldn't pick my hand up above my waist and went to a health food store that I frequented in Chicago. I was told to go see Dr Litz. And you know what, mate, I don't do witchcraft. You must have something you can sell me. And so they sold me some self-admissed, which did no good.
Speaker 2:A couple months later I went back. I was still in so much pain I wasn't sleeping, and the owner happened to be there that day, lynn Bednar, wonderful practitioner, in a roadway. And she looked me in the eyes and said that day, lynn Bednar, wonderful practitioner in her own way. And she looked me in the eyes and said Maura, we love you, go see Dr Liz. So, with my tail between my legs, I went to see Dr Liz, who is a network chiropractor, and she actually healed my frozen shoulder by going in and releasing the tension in the pterygoid muscle inside my mouth, which was arguably one of the most painful experiences I'd ever had. But as she pressed harder and harder, my aura went up and it was amazing. But what really started this whole process was when we talked after that treatment and I had full emotion in my shoulder joint for the first time in about six months.
Speaker 2:I said I was just really impressed and she made a reference to being an innate healer. I'd never heard that phrase in 32 years of working in hospitals the healer within. And I thought to myself if there's a healer within, why do we have millions of doctors around? Why do we need that? It didn't make sense to me, so I set out to discover who the innate healer is, and of course I would have looked about it, and that's what Curing your Fatigue is all about.
Speaker 2:Copper is the innate healer. At least I would go on record as that's my spin and people have a. Actually, I would say that my eight grandchildren have a better understanding of copper metabolism than all of the practitioners in the world combined, and that's a rather condemning thing to say. But I mean, I'm absolutely embarrassed by the I call it pharaoh arrogance and cupro ignorance. The speed with which practitioners will recommend and prescribe iron at the drop of a hand and prescribed iron at the drop of a hat. And the failure, the absolute failure across the board, all disciplines. Doesn't matter what the training is, this collective conviction that copper is toxic and what I happen to find. Every day is a new discovery, as you probably know, and I always have a latest and greatest article.
Speaker 1:But today's article is about… Copper homeostasis Love it.
Speaker 2:Implants, implants. One of my dear friends is Martha Carlin, and she is to the microbiome what I am to the mitochondria. She'd be a great guest for you to have on the show. But she said we're not that different than plants, and she's right but the layers and layers and layers and layers of protection in the plant to guard against any kind of toxicity. And yet, as humans, I think we may be a little bit more evolved than plants, a touch more, but we're helpless, defenseless and ignorant about how to work with our copper.
Speaker 2:And I deal with that not alone as you all. And so that's the world of insanity that we find ourselves in. Is this just total disregard for the fact that there is an energy, that there is this natural network of solutions in our body? And what people don't know is that the food that we've been eating for the last century is so bankrupt, so corrupt, so empty. No one even questions it. That's where, as you well know, that's where the problem began was change in the food system and farming, and then everything else cascaded from that.
Speaker 1:It's so true. I did a solo podcast all about nutrition and I talk about it all the time and it's so baffling and depressing actually to see it's basically just been one generation where we have. It's been going on for a while, right, but to see the complete bankruptcy from from my childhood to my children's childhood, it was still not great when I was growing up, but now it is. There is just there's. People are eating so much food and getting the zero nutrition and so is it a wonder that there's so much disease, especially in the kids' day. It's so sad for me.
Speaker 1:My husband and I would say well, we walk around Disney World. We take our kids there every year. It's been a tradition. And walking around it's like how many healthy people do you see walking around? 10%, and maybe they're. Just wait, you can still be skinny and still have metabolic dysfunction too. So I think 95% of us have metabolic dysfunction, and even those of us who are aware it's just challenging, right, with all the toxins in the environment. But that's the other problem is when you go to the doctor and they run lab work, it's junk Most of the time. Everything's fine and you feel terrible and they just write you off because they don't know they're not measuring like you just said. I love that comment. They're not measuring the proper things.
Speaker 1:For my patients. I say I wish every year people had a tox screen test and like an organic acids test let's see how your body's actually doing things. I just ran one on a patient. She's been with the chronic fatigue and all of a sudden her mouth just rip, roaring with decay. She's been a patient for 15 years. She's had some issues but like all of a sudden just everywhere, and I said we really will you do this test because it's not cheap, right, it's not covered by, but sure enough, like loaded with infection. And I am 100 convinced the decay, especially widespread decay, not just the one cavity here and there, is all related to gut infection and the mineral imbalance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the part that most people don't know and most practitioners don't know is all of those pathogens are living on iron. They're not coming from Mars. Everyone worries about their gut microbiome. Let's talk about how much iron is down there. It's not being properly recycled, brought into the broader recycling system of the body. Nobody knows about it. Nobody knows that there is a mitochondrial recycling system of the body. Nobody knows about. Nobody knows that there is a mitochondrial recycling system, a cellular recycling system and a system-wide recycling system. And guess who runs all three of them? Copper, and no one knows that by design. And so if you don't know about that, if you don't know that there is in fact a recycling system, and if you don't recycle the iron, your energy production is going to go down because the iron is going to build in the mitochondria.
Speaker 2:And as soon as the iron starts to rise in the mitochondria, what do you get? It's called oxidative stress. It's a very lofty term for rust. And what's happening to the oxygen? It's no longer O2. It's becoming superoxide, which is oxygen with an attitude, or hydrogen peroxide, or the hydroxyl radical, which is just a very destructive molecule. And then you have all sorts of problems inside the mitochondria and inside the cell.
Speaker 2:And the part that people don't understand. Everyone loves to talk about mitochondrial dysfunction. That's the rage, the Calley brother and sister oh, everyone's got mitochondrial dysfunction right. But no one can say what is this exactly? Well, within the RUTOS protocol, we know exactly what it is, and what I was sharing with the class last night is an article I read earlier this week, and they actually identified the three most critical breakdowns inside the mitochondria that cause mitochondrial dysfunction. And we need to make what are called iron-sulfur clusters. They're insanely important for the complexes that run the mitochondria and you can't make those iron-sulfur clusters without copper. Ding, ding, ding.
Speaker 2:The second breakdown is heme synthesis. So we've been chatting now for about 15, 20 minutes Every second of every day. Every second we have to turn over 2.5 million red blood cells and there's a lot of heme inside one red blood cell, much less two and a half million. And who's making the heme? Oh yeah, there's eight enzymes inside the mitochondria and four of them are found inside the mitochondria and four of them outside the mitochondria. But the ones that are inside the mitochondria got to outside of the mitochondria, but the ones that are inside the mitochondria got to have a battery called copper.
Speaker 2:And then the third breakdown is if we've got extra iron inside the mitochondria, we got to put it in a storage locker and it's called mitoferrin, not ferritin. It's mitoferrin, but it is a form, not ferritin. It's mitoferrin but it is a form of ferritin, but it comes in two flavors there's heavy chain and light chain. Heavy chain means you've got to have copper to make it work. Light chain don't need copper. Light chain don't need copper. The storage locker inside the mitochondria, inside the nucleus, inside the heart, inside the kidney, must have copper. And I think that'd be a really cool thing for doctors to know that this storage locker inside the mitochondria must have copper in order to open and close properly.
Speaker 2:And so if those three things aren't working, you will have mitochondrial dysfunction. And what does that lead to? Aging. It is all this tholmen about longevity and aging. It's all related to iron. About longevity and aging. It's all related to iron. You know all these infections and inflammation that people worry about, it's iron, iron, iron, iron. And if the iron's not being regulated by copper, it's not going to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talked about these reactive oxygen species, and what I've discovered in my research is that those ROSs directly impact the parotid hormone, which is responsible for moving fluid through the teeth, and so normally it will bring minerals up to the surface. Right, because our teeth mineralize and demineralize all day, every day. Enamel is not static and every tooth is its own organ, right, but when that reactive oxygen species are very predominant, the prionic hormone reverses flow. So now it's pulled the minerals from the enamel surface in order to try because, like you said, we need copper, we need all of our minerals to try to balance out the acidity that happens in the gut. Right, minerals are so vital to every function in the body and if we're not getting in our diet or we're not absorbing them for a multitude of reasons, right, we have to get from somewhere. So we're getting them from the teats and our bones right.
Speaker 1:So that's again where that whole idea I'm not all about brushing and flossing and fluoride, that is not the key to oral health that may help. Right, we don't want to have plaque buildup, but the deeper down we have to think about what's happening in the gut. When we have too much iron, we have too much reactive oxygen species, we're going to get breakdown of the teeth.
Speaker 2:So when you're talking about the parotid. There's a hormone.
Speaker 1:There's a hormone that helps fluid move in and out of the teeth. The way it reverses the flow right, because ideally it should bring nutrients up to the teeth and keep them healthy. But when we have lots of inflammation, that fluid flow now pulls into circulation, leaves the enamel less mineralized so it's thinner. This is why people tend to get cavities more quickly, especially if it's a gut issue. They'll get all the cavities of the gum line where the enamel is very, very thin. So there's fewer minerals. There there's more opportunity to break down that area where the normal bugs and stuff and acidity that's in the mouth.
Speaker 2:So again, all tying in no it's beautiful, I love it, so let's go up to them. So what's the correlation between the expression of the parotid hormone and the ceruloplasmin expression in the saliva? I would think they would be one for one.
Speaker 1:We were talking about at the conference. How can we measure that in the saliva? Because saliva is becoming an amazing diagnostic tool to look for lots of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, prior to the meeting where we met in Salt Lake, I was obviously trying to bone up on my understanding of testing in the mouth. So I feel like an altar boy talking to the Pope right now. That's okay. I feel like an altar boy talking to the Pope right now. That's okay. But what I learned is that the nutrient expression in the saliva may only be 3% of the serum, but it's a very accurate 3%. The numbers are lower, but they're incredibly—there's great integrity in those numbers, so I thought that's pretty cool. So this really is the gateway to understanding what's going on in the body.
Speaker 1:It's so non-invasive Saliva is awesome. They're using it now for all sorts of looking for cancers and stuff too, because you can see a lot of the proteins. They talk it's like silted blood, right. So maybe not quantitatively, but qualitatively it's. It's phenomenal, that's all. So tell me a little bit more about root cause protocol. We've talked a little bit about iron and copper and, and so maybe give us a little bit background of the crux of the root cause protocol and maybe why are we seeing more iron and less copper today?
Speaker 2:Sure, again, I was a babe in the woods. I kept someone who told me that when you get to be 72, you're going to be no way. I'm in my mid-50s. I have this epiphany over the shoulder and what I really want to do? I really want to understand why is everyone getting so sick? Because what I was really good at as a consultant was forecasting the demand for health care. It's not rocket science, but there's a certain art form to it and I was pretty good at those projections. But I was like why?
Speaker 2:And what actually happened was in 2008, I was doing a project here in North Carolina for three different clients and every disease index was a hockey stick ready to take off and I went I can't stay on the sidelines anymore. And so I started taking coursework and becoming a coach and stuff like that, and I'd always read books about nutrition. It was always an interest of mine and the funny thing is I love to eat but I hate to cook, but I'm like just one of my personality quirks. But what ended up happening was I left my work in the world of hospitals and I became Dr Liz's girlfriend. I literally was not in the office and with my cufflinks and fancy ties and she said you can tone that down. She said thank you so much.
Speaker 2:But one of her clients was a psychologist and she said I think she knew it means that I was really interested in reading and wanted to research. She said I think it'd be really good for you to start writing with paradoxical intent. I said what she said reverse psychology. And so I started to write a series of articles about let's get fat, let's break bones, let's make a heart attack. Don't have a heart attack. That's get fat, let's break bones, let's make a heart attack. Don't have a heart attack. That's too passive, let's go on the offense and make it happen. And so I really had a lot of fun writing those articles and there were published, you know, a monthly magazine in the Chicago area called the Monthly Aspect Journal which is about fortune telling and astrology. I'm like, okay, whatever, I'd start somewhere. One of Dr Liz's clients she was also a practitioner said would you read this article I did about let's make a heart attack?
Speaker 1:And she said sure, yeah, I'd be happy to do that, and so it was a 10-step plan.
Speaker 2:All these articles were 10-step plans on how to do this or that. You want to break bones. Here's a 10-step plan. In the 10-step plan to make a heart attack, seven of the 10 steps came from the American Heart Association to make a heart attack, and step number eight was eliminate magnesium from your diet and your body.
Speaker 2:And so this client read the article and she came in a couple of days later. She said this is very clever. She said this is very clever. She said this is very funny. She said I think you're on to something she said. But I can't help but think that step number eight isn't more important than you realize.
Speaker 2:Step number eight was about magnesium Get rid of magnesium. And I said, yeah, maybe you're right. And that led me to Carolyn Dean's book, the Magnesium Miracle, and I remember reading that book like it was a murder mystery, like suddenly I knew why is everyone in the hospital so sick? Because they're magnesium deficient. And that drove me for probably a couple of years. And I remember having a very fateful conversation with a practitioner and he said Morley, appreciate what you're trying to do. He said but it was that simple, we had to figure it out. And then my arrogance and my hubris as a newbie. I said you don't seem to understand it the way I do. And he was right. I was wrong.
Speaker 2:And over a period of about five years I went from magnesium deficiency to trying to understand why is magnesium lost? Well, it's oxidative stress. Where is the oxidative stress coming from? It's from the iron interacting with the oxygen. And then, over time, I went why is iron and oxygen not working right? There's a mixture of toxins on the planet. Iron and oxygen are the preeminent toxins. Everyone loves to talk about this chemical and that chemical or whatever, but it's iron and oxygen that started the show, and there's only one element on the planet that can regulate both of them at the same time and not cause static, and it's called copper. And when I learned that, boom, I went from being this zealot about magnesium and shifted my focus, because if you can allow the body to have enough bioavailable copper, you don't need to worry about magnesium loss. And again, a lot of people who focus on magnesium deficiency never take people back to the beginning about where the problem really is, which is the iron and the oxygen aren't being mixed properly.
Speaker 2:And so, as I learned more, I started to share it on Facebook and I was supposed to write a book. I had a sponsor and they wanted to have a cardiologist help me write the book. And when I realized I knew more about the problem than the cardiologist, I said no, we're not going to do that. And I remember a very fateful argument I had with this cardiologist who trained with the Baykeeper. He wasn't exactly a slouch and I started talking about don't you wonder about why the cholesterol is being oxidized? And I remember what he said oh, you want to pull the curtain all the way back. I said oh, you know about the oxidized cholesterol? He said, of course I do. I said, but you never talk about it. He said it's just not popular. And that's when I said we're not going to write the book. But I began to really dig in my heels and then I started writing posts on iron toxicity and started connecting more dots and one thing led to another and then, of course, published the book.
Speaker 2:But the focus was really once I understood the role of the copper protein, ceruloplasma, which is this master antioxidant protein in the body that nobody knows anything about, especially your doctor, which is a frightening thought. It would be like farmers not understanding that there's a sum. That's how foundational this is and people are like I've never heard of it, so it can't be that important. No, it's really important. And then you find out that the FDA does not allow you to properly measure the functionality of that protein. That's a good thing to know. I was on a call recently a lobbyist in DC and I shared that stuff and this is a guy who's very well-connected, I won't go into the details. He said what's the name of that test? And I told him he goes, that's going to change us and I just burst out laughing. I said we'll see, but he had all sorts of gumption that he was going to change the world. I hope you do, but people don't understand.
Speaker 2:This protein works with 15 different substrates, so that would be. That's impressive. It's working with iron, copper, oxygen, amine groups, phenols, diphenols you name the chemical component that the body depends on and ceruloplasma can work with it through different enzyme functions. Okay, so it has intelligence. It is the innate healer, it is the internal intelligence of the body, and the fact that it shows up on the mouth and the eyes was actually eight times more ceruloplasmic expression in the eye than in the brain. That's a good thing to know. The organs express it, macrophages express it. It's are you kidding? You don't know about this.
Speaker 2:And the whole purpose behind the root cause protocol is to increase the body's ability to make this protein so it can regulate our health. And when we first started, there was two stops and two starts, and the stops were stop taking iron and stop taking ascorbic acid, and then of course it grew and now we've got about a dozen stops. Stop taking iron and stop taking ascorbic acid, and then of course it grew and now we've had about a dozen stops. But the one that causes everyone heartburn and they get like this bone in their throat is stop taking vitamin D. They're just like what.
Speaker 2:And what people don't realize is that one of the most important chemical reactions in the body is to have retinol become a hormone called retinoic acid. For the gearheads out there it's called 13-sense retinoic acid. I've read one whole article about it. There's only one article published about this, 1947, barber and Cousins. But it revealed they have to reveal the truth. You just have to be able to find it, that's all. And so retinol turns into retinolucosin and that turns all of this enzyme that loads copper into a protein called ceruloblasmin, and it's a really important mechanism inside the body, and so that mechanism is called ATP7B. And there's another one, a partner. It's called ATP7A, and that's loading two dozen other copper enzymes. So that gives you an idea of how important ceruloplasma is if it has its own enzyme and the other enzyme is enzymes 25 or 30 other. Okay, nobody knows anything about this. No one's ever heard this.
Speaker 2:And what I learned about research that was done in 1928 at the University of Wisconsin, in March of 1928 and then May of 1928 at the University of Wisconsin, in March of 1928, and then May of 1928 at the University of Kentucky, where they withheld copper from the animal's diet just to see what would happen. And what happened? The livers of the animals loaded up with iron, what I know? The exact mechanism. You have an earth cool down, mitochondrial interloving, and the receptor is called Robo4. Robo4. And guess what? It affects women more than it affects men. It's fascinating. And so when the liver loads up with iron, it doesn't work right and the liver is in fact the battery of the body. I don't know where the tooth is that's associated with the liver I'm sure you do, but I bet it's a tooth that's under assault all the time. Canines, canines, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:That was very unnerving.
Speaker 2:When I realized that, then I really began to dig in and start to really say what do we need to do to synthesize this protein and allow its fullest expression?
Speaker 2:And I don't have a walk on it. I mean, there's no see, there's no manual that tells people how to de-iron the human body and there's no manual that tells people how to recopper the body. But what I want your listeners to understand is that we've been under assault for a century. This started with the First World War Because at the end of the war there was a bunch of munitions left over. What did they have? Npk, nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. And they had to get rid of that chemical. So they sold it to the farmers. Oh, it's a fertilizer. They turned it into a fertilizer. It's a bomb-making chemical by day and it's a fertilizer at night. And the farmers bought that. And what does NPK do?
Speaker 1:It happened to fluoride too. It's the same story. We're all going to get rid of it. Oh yay, it prevents cavities. Okay yeah, Same story.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to Deathsmouth County, texas. And so then farmers started using it. What does NPK block? The uptake of copper into the root system. Audrey Fawcett wrote about this in the 1950s in a wonderful book called Soil Grass Cancer, and he profiled very meticulously how the NPK was causing people in his community to get cancer. It's a beautiful book if you've never read it. But I just began to build on that more and us.
Speaker 2:And then I got a phone call from a physician. Name was Ben Edwards. He was down in Lubbock, texas. He said more than I've got nine nurse practitioners, I want you to teach me what you know. And I said I don't know if it's that easy. He said what I said. I think you're part of the problem Now. If he had been a reasonable person he would have hung up right now. But Ben is not reasonable. He said wait a minute. He said don't blame me. You can blame my handlers, you can blame the people who trained me, but don't blame me. I wanted to get through medical school and I did. People have trained me, but don't blame me. I wanted to get through medical school and I did, and so that became a friendship that led to me going down to Lubbock, texas, to teach his entire team what we knew.
Speaker 2:And the real breakthrough was one of his nurse practitioners who now has a double doctorate. He has a PhD in physics and a naturopathic degree Some program out in Hawaii. He said, marley, do you really want to know why iron is so toxic? And I'm like, yeah, I thought I died because of him. It has six unpaired electrons and he showed me what the problem is with iron. I think it's actually four unpaired electrons. So it's four unpaired electrons and I was like, oh my gosh, that's what the world would. Suddenly, everything began to fall into place. And if you don't know that, if you don't know that oxygen has electrons to spare, then you don't know that if you don't know that oxygen has electrons to spare, then you don't understand what the relationship is between them. And this is what's playing out in our body and what I've labeled it as there's a three-ring circus between copper and iron and oxygen, and it goes back to the beginning of time.
Speaker 2:It goes back to what's called the great oxygen that a lot of people don't know about, but there wasn't always oxygen on the planet and it was copper that saved life on the planet and allowed for life to evolve. And the reason why we're here, you and I are here, the reason why we're using this really switched on technology to have this conversation, is that higher life forms required more energy. You couldn't get more energy without oxidizing the fuel, so you've got to oxidize the sugars, you've got to oxidize the fat, and you can't do that without confidence and that's not taught anywhere, and so the secret is hiding behind a curtain, so you've got to spell curtain C-U, hyphen R-T-A-I-N. And people don't realize the level of deception that has taken place in medicine and dentistry and nutrition and agriculture and pharmaceuticals for a century. That has been protecting a revenue stream and no one's the wiser.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to the vitamin D issue, because that is a big one, even for me who understands the science, and I'm like, oh, because we'll go over my test results in a minute here, but my vitamin D, according to traditional tests is always low. I also have some genetic defects in my vitamin D receptor. That may be part of the reason. But again, tell us about why we shouldn't necessarily supplement with vitamin D.
Speaker 2:There was time to do that.
Speaker 1:I know, I know that's short inspiration.
Speaker 2:There's a master class. I want people to know there's a master class. They can buy it. It's two hours of me yammering about this. I will answer your question in a very succinct way.
Speaker 2:I'm not anti-vitamin D. I'm anti-vitamin D, only supplementation. It's very dangerous. That's what the D stands for. They've been very deceptive. That's what the D stands for. There's a lot of disease associated. That's what the D stands for and people don't know that. And the brainwashing that's gone with vitamin D, and people don't know that. And the brainwashing that's gone by vitamin D is staggering. It's right up there with the Stockholm Syndrome and people don't realize how dangerous it is. But the real restriction is. So you said you have vitamin D, you're always low. The question you've never asked why is it low? You think it's genetic. That's a bunch of hocus pocus. My VDR is not working my vitamin D receptor. So what does VDR require?
Speaker 2:Magnesium Well, where's the magnesium? Could the magnesium be lost in your body? Because you happen to be a very successful but stressed out practitioner that maybe your diet doesn't have enough copper in it? And if copper's not there, what is there? Iron, where's the iron? Hanging up In your liver, just like we were talking about in 1928.
Speaker 2:And what people need to know is that in order to make the storage form of, it's not a vitamin, it's a hormone. So to make the storage form of hormone D, you have to have, you have to turn cholesterol into the precursor 7-D hydroxy, whatever it's called but you got to turn it into the precursor and then it mixes with an enzyme called 25-hydroxylase, which is what Magnesium dependent. Oh, and if I feel a lot of iron in my liver, there's going to be a lot of oxidative stress in my liver which is going to burn up my magnesium, and so then the expression of the enzyme is down and therefore the storage level is down. But here's where the fun really begins. Do you know about Michael Hollick? Okay, google him right now and take a look at his picture and you tell me why we should trust this guy.
Speaker 1:How do you spell?
Speaker 2:his last name H-O-L-I-C-K. He got his PhD before he got his MD, that's a clue. And he's at Boston University. And he's the guy he's the pastor of his day, the Ancel Keys of his day, the Anthony Fauci of his day who got everyone to believe that they needed more vitamin D. And let's ignore this retinol thing.
Speaker 1:Anybody who's watching on YouTube. More vitamin D and let's ignore this retinol thing. Can I show a picture? Can everybody? Anybody who's watching?
Speaker 2:on YouTube. Yeah, it's right out of the sentence. I'm sick. No, I'm sure he can criticize me too. The thing is, we've been sold to build goods, and back in the 20s, in the teens and 20s, when they were studying retinol, what were they doing with the vitamin D samples? Throwing it away because they said it was worthless. And now it's running the world. It's faster than a speeding bullet, it's taller than a, it's just come on. And so the part that people don't realize is that vitamin D causes iron to go deeper into the tissue. Vitamin D a very important study was done at Yale Medical School. Well, that's probably a pretty good school, right, but Dr Ferris at Yale Medical School in 1962 proved that vitamin D supplementation caused renal potassium wasting. Why should we care about the kidneys dumping potassium? What replaces potassium when it leaves the cell? Calcium, or, as they say in Ireland, or it replaces potassium, and then we have what's called kidney disease. And that was his whole point.
Speaker 1:So the importance is and this is what I'm telling my patients all the time like no single vitamin, single member ever works alone. This is why they did that huge study where they were putting women on vitamin d and calcium. They all ended up with heart attack. Because you need the magnesium, you need the vitamin a, you need the vitamin k and this is why it's so important when you're thinking about something.
Speaker 1:Ideally we get all our nutrients from food. For example, cod liver oil that has vitamin D, but what else does it have? High, high levels of retinol, like one of probably the only foods where you get actual vitamin A. People say eat carrots. That's beta carotene, that's different. You need to be able to convert that right. So when you look in nature again, nothing is in isolation. All the foods, everything is there to help your body assimilate it. So, same thing when you're taking vitamin D and now a lot of supplements, you'll see D3, k2, right, because we understand that if you don't have the magnesium, you don't have the vitamin A and vitamin K. The calcium ends up being deposited. So we'll see tartar on the teeth right, that calcium is coming out of your system and being deposited. So if I'm seeing it on the teeth, I bet you we're seeing it in the arteries too. Right, of course, gosh.
Speaker 2:So what people don't know is that there's four fat soluble vitamins. Two have been weaponized, that's vitamin D and vitamin K, and the other two are MIA. You know we're in the right. Vitamin A and vitamin D are gone. People don't realize that and they don't know how important they are. And this idea that synthetic vitamin K is your friend no, I'll make an open request for you and your followers Send me an article that proves that vitamin K takes carotene and puts it back in the bone. I can't wait to read that article. I can't find it. It's now become part of the urban legend of Iron Kitty to remineralize the bone. Come on, show me the article that proves that. I can't find it.
Speaker 2:The other thing that you might not know is you may know of Michael Gosweiler, in Indiana and just an amazing guy, great dentist, great periodontal dentist, but he does a lot of implants. And what Mike has discovered is he puts his clients on the RCP for four months before he even starts to check their mouth. He won't even look at their mouth before they've been on protocol and the part everyone chokes on is no vitamin D. And the physicians in the community I use that word in the office are always telling their clients you can do the RCP thing as long as you do the vitamin D, which is a complete violation. You can do the RCP thing as long as you do the vitamin D, which is a complete violation. Mike knows within a nanosecond whether it can hold the tensile strength of whatever this procedure is and when it can't, 100% of the time the client has been taking vitamin D.
Speaker 2:Now that begs the question why? Why would the maxillary bone lose its integrity? There's only one way it can happen. There's an enzyme in our body. You work with it all day long, but you may not know about it. It's called lysyl oxidase. Lysyl oxidase is what knits collagen, which is strong, with elastin, which is flexible.
Speaker 2:The body needs to knit those two like a zipper and the enzyme, lysyl oxidase, allows that to come together and that's what gives all the connective tissue its integrity. Forty-five percent of the cells in the human body are connective tissue. This is not an insignificant event. Have you noticed the number of people wearing boots these days? Ethical event have you noticed the number of people wearing boots these days? Because I bet every one of them is taking vitamin D 100% of them and they don't know that the lysyl oxidase is being compromised by the vitamin D and we're still trying to figure out what the actual mechanism is.
Speaker 2:But it's the only enzyme that would make sense to destroy the maxillary integrity and also the bone integrity. And it's a quiet crisis and epidemic on the planet that nobody's aware of. And think of the number of people that you know just within your community that have implants that aren't holding and they're not holding and they've got to be replaced. And there's a reason why they've got to be replaced because tissue integrity has been compromised, because people are brainwashed to think that they need this supplement alone. I'm with you 100% and we need the food sources or where there is this synergy between the nutrients and that's being lost to the modern food system, as you well know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely so there's a difference between the supplementation right versus cod liver oil. That cod liver oil is a part of RCP and that's a central form right of vitamin D has out and I know liver itself has a lot of copper right. I don't know if the oil does too right.
Speaker 2:Historically. Yes, here's the part that maybe you don't want to hear, or maybe your followers don't want to hear. In 1987, monsanto wanted to introduce glyphosate into Europe. There was a lot of resistance, especially in France. I was under the impression that they had actually passed along, but they didn't. But the use of glyphosate is very different in France than it is in other parts of Europe. So that was 87.
Speaker 2:In 2022, a team of scientists decided to study gee. I wonder how the French benefited from that resistance, and what they discovered is that 99% of French citizens are peeing glyphosate in their urine. What does that really mean? It means that glyphosate is everywhere it's in the air and it's in the water table. And so you go to a nutrient table. Really cool eye candy now really spiffy. Exciting. The information in the nutrient tables hadn't been updated since 1957. That's a good thing to know.
Speaker 2:And so our understanding of food is three generations ago, and so copper used to have a lot of excuse me, liver used to have a lot of copper, organ meats used to have a lot of copper, shellfish used to have a lot of copper, nuts and seeds In fact, all of the foods that are GMO weakly used to be rich sources of copper. Now they have no copper, and so the part that people may not know is the speed with which glyphosate removes copper from the soil, from the plant, from the animals eating the plant. And the kinetics of chelation are fascinating, but it's logarithmic. People can relate to earthquakes. An earthquake of three is, you know, the dishes rattle, but everything will be fine. An earthquake of 12, no one survives.
Speaker 2:Glyphosate pulls calcium and magnesium out of the soil at a 3. It pulls iron and zinc out of the soil at a 9. But it pulls copper at a 12. So what does that mean? It means that it's pulling copper out a billion times faster than calcium and magnesium, and it's a thousand times faster than iron and zinc. And here's where the problem is. Those numbers go right out of your head. I don't understand what a billion times faster is. If I don't understand it, it can't be important.
Speaker 2:So think of the one flight when I was in college my mom had a really nice Mercedes 350 SL and I remember growing up in Baltimore, taking a trip to Florida and driving that car 140 miles an hour, which was twice the speed limit. And it was this wall of green just going by. A young guy has to do that right. Then you think about Chuck Yeager in the 50s breaking through the sound barrier. So he was going 10 times the speed limit and before he pushed the sound barrier, so he was going 10 times the speed line and before he fused the sound barrier the dashboard started to blow up. He figured he was just going to die and then he said it was like riding on silk. Once he went through the sound barrier, that's 10 times faster.
Speaker 2:We can't relate to a thousand times faster, much less a billion times faster. But that's the power of this chemical that everyone. I've heard of that, but I don't know what it does. I've heard of glyphosate or I've heard of GMO, but they have no idea what it's doing to destroy mineral integrity in the soil, in the plant, in the human. And now we're facing I think let's be really bold here I think we're facing extinction level of that. That's how powerful it is. And so it's just again. The average person doesn't want to know all that. They want to have their Big Mac and their statin. And leave me alone, let me get back to my football game. And so it's just. We live in a wild time.
Speaker 2:And the beauty of what I've uncovered is that there is this unbelievable design to human physiology. There's no—it's just absolutely breathtaking. Our maker and Mother Nature knew exactly what they were doing and it's been violated in the last century on a scale that people don't realize. And we can, in fact, take back control. We can become the CEO of our health, but it takes discipline and discernment, and a lot of people don't want to do that. So that's the challenge. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:We're coming up on good time. We could talk for five more minutes. Let's look at my test. So I knew Morley was coming on. Talk for five more hours. Let's look at my test. So I knew Morley was coming on.
Speaker 1:So I recently, in recent years, I've had some blood work and my ferritin levels, which is the like iron storage, have been very low, right. So this last one, it was nine. A couple of months ago I was the first time I did it. About a year ago I was at nine. A few months later, after trying these, I went to a 7. Now I'm back up to the 9. But my doctor was like you've got to get on iron right away. That is way too low. And I was just knowing what little bit I know about that. I said I don't know, I'm not going to do that. But this is really common, right? The iron deficiency anemia. So many people they get iron infusion and they feel good initially until because, oh, all of a sudden I have more energy, but maybe again. This is another five hour conversation, but briefly, what is your belief when people show these low numbers? What's really going on?
Speaker 2:Again, we're back to. How much time do we?
Speaker 1:have Exactly.
Speaker 2:So, real quick, I'll put this in context and I'll answer your question. People need to understand that there's a continuum of ferritin. You want to really understand ferritin? You got to get Harrison or Rosio in 1995. You got to get Harrison or Roseo in 1995. And it'll go into why this is such an important protein, but how complicated it really is.
Speaker 2:But what people need to understand is that there's actually five different forms of ferritin that we know of. There's ferritin heavy chain, light chain. Then there's serum ferritin, which is an alteration of the light chain. It's missing 10 amino acids. That's a good thing to know. Gee, where'd they go? Then there's denatured ferritin. It's actually called hemocytarin. It's not tested. We're not allowed to test for that. What is hemocytarin? It's holding 10 tons more iron than ferritin. Where does it hang out? In the liver? In the spleen? In our bone marrow? Oh, that would be a good thing to know. And so then there's the last form is called magnetoferritin. You probably have never heard of it, but the iron in that magnetoferritin is 200 times stronger than heavy chain ferritin. And what's it responsible for Neurodegeneration? Oh, maybe that's a good thing to know. So the thing is, the topic is it's multifaceted and everyone wants to know what does the high ferritin mean? Or the low ferritin? Every classmate of mine that got into medical school 100% of them got an.
Speaker 2:A in calculus, they were really good at math, and they've all been reduced to ferritin monkeys using a ruler. Well, you know, ferritin is too high and ferritin is too low, when in fact ferritin is maybe a leading indicator, or a lagging indicator, of complete breakdown, of copper-iron dysregulation. And so the high ferritin is actually pretty easy to explain. The liver is on fire and it's breaking down, the tissue is breaking down, and when the ferritin starts to rise above, say, 100, but when it gets into the 500 to 1,000 range, when it gets over 1,000, as it does with rheumatoid arthritis or diabetes or heart disease that would be a good thing to know that that means there's a lot of iron behind that ferritin. Okay, so that's easy to explain. Low ferritin oh my gosh. The part that's missing is there's a hormone that allegedly runs iron metabolism. I don't quite describe to you that, but that's the rigor. We're supposed to believe that there's a hormone called hepcidin. Have you ever heard of it? Okay, so you've heard of hepcidin, but you can't measure it. You're not allowed to measure it, and it turns out that hepcidin and ferritin ride on the sea salt again. That hepcidin and ferritin ride on the sea salt again.
Speaker 2:And I've been waiting for a long time when I had the opportunity to talk with Douglas Kell, who is a world-renowned iron biologist. I spoke to him back in 2018, and we didn't speak again until a weekend ago, and we're going to be talking at a conference together in London in a few weeks and I wanted to get this bee out of my bonnet. I said Dr Kell, my theory is that low ferritin is a sign of high hepcidin. He said you're absolutely right. What you've got to understand about Dr Kell is he has more degrees than us among us, and his signature article from 2009 is called Iron Behaving Badly, and if a scientist wants to make a statement with an article, they'll have 100 footnotes. If they really want to put emphasis on it, they'll have 200 footnotes, maybe 300. Dr Kill's article in 2009, 2,400 footnotes, and his whole point is he wants scientists and clinicians to know you're not just wrong about iron, you're dead wrong.
Speaker 2:And so your ferritin is low. I would suspect your hepcidin is high. Now why would your hepcidin be high? Well, hepcidin is made by the hemp gene, h-a-m-p hepatic antimicrobial peptide. Oh, there's microbes involved. So if ferritin is low, might that mean that I have parasites? Absolutely, and they're affecting your copper and iron metabolism, and the doctor doesn't know that, and the worst possible thing you can do for low ferritin is give iron, because what does it do to the parasites? It feeds them even more. And so, as I'm looking at your blood work and we can spend more time in a later conversation, but what really stands out is the one-two punch in the human body.
Speaker 2:The one-two components of your immune system are transferrin and ceruloplasmin. Transferrin is a waiter carrying iron, very important for the iron recycling system, and ceruloplasmin is the master copper protein that's regulating the wild stone copper protein that's regulating the wild stone. And both of those proteins are supposed to be 30, which you have to understand is there's morally math involved, and so you've got to move the decimal point over for transfer. It's showing 286, which is 28.6, as we understand it in the RCP, and your ceruloplasma is 17. That's a dramatic difference. They should both be 30, and when they're not both 30, they should both be the same number.
Speaker 2:But if there's this, guess what parasites are able to make? They make transferrin, but they can't make ceruloplasmin, and so your ceruloplasmin is about 50% of where it should be and your copper is 69% of what it should be. So the prerequisite to make transferrin is retinol. The gene gets stimulated by retinol. Don't ask me how the parasites do it. I probably should find out, but that's another mechanism. But ceruloplasma requires both retinol and copper, and so your copper is low do we have your retinol?
Speaker 1:yeah, the vitamin a didn't come in yet, so it probably will be low I. I was on accutane as a teenager and uh oh gee, sickest people hands down.
Speaker 2:Sickest people as a class are anyone who took Accutane and what people may not know about Accutane, even though it has a CU in it. It's anti-copper and what it does is it's a synthetic form of 13-saccharide-tenomic acid. And what does it do? It accelerates the production of the seruloplasma protein to the point that it burns out copper in the body. And then you're in a deficit position, but your body is showing very low expression. How long did you take it?
Speaker 1:I was six months.
Speaker 2:Okay, six days would have been too long. No, I've had probably 15 or 20 people who took Accutane. They are affected by it for the rest of their life. It's actually more than that. So I'm doing the math 69 divided by 17. So your ratio is 4.05. Ideally, copper should be 100. Ideally, ceruloplasma should be 30. The ideal ratio is 3.33. Your ratio is 4.05. You're thinking, yeah, but I'm close. No, it's logarithmic again. So your level of inflammation is seven times higher than it should be. Does that make sense? Absolutely. When was the last time you did a blood donation?
Speaker 1:I haven't been able to because my iron's been low the last two times.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, and what will turn that around is the protocol, the root cause protocol, and you seem to have a working knowledge of letting go of fear. You really got to work on that Because you're not broken, but you are out of balance. You're absolutely out of balance, and what I would advise, just between you and me and the lamppost, is I'd find a mobile phlebotomist and have them take iron out of your body Because it's getting in the way of your recovery. We do it in the office. Have you started the protocol?
Speaker 1:yet I've done bits and pieces. I know when Kelly is back, we're going full on there.
Speaker 2:What you're probably going to enjoy is the Recuperate, which is a blended form of desiccated beef liver and spirulina and turmeric and copper bisglycinate, and you're probably going to need at least three a day to bring your body back, and so that'll be six milligrams of copper that you were missing for a long time. And what would be fascinating, to do a there's a company called Ferroscan, based out of Australia, but they have relationships with MRI centers all over the world and for you to do a ferrous scan of your liver to find out how much iron is there, because I suspect you have a buildup there, which is why your vitamin D. I never worried about vitamin D levels, but yours is 28, and that's actually too high. There's no clinical benefit above 21. And the system that was developed by Michael Hollick starts at 30 and goes up to 100. But I grew up in Baltimore, my nickname was Baltimorely and I worshiped at the altar of Hopkins. Some really talented people.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Muhammad Amer in 2014 said, did an all-cause mortality study against vitamin D status. He said there's no clinical benefit above 21. And again, that's all pre-COVID, and people say, yeah, you don't understand 21. And again, that's all pre-COVID and people say, yeah, you don't understand. Well, the part that people don't understand today is that in 2020, when everyone was freaking out, we were told to take the COVID cocktail, which was high-dose ascorbic acid, high-dose vitamin and high-dose zinc. That's the perfect triad to kill copper in the body, but people don't know that. And so then, when I realized what was being proposed, I renamed what COVID stood for. C-o-v stands for coppers banished and I-D stands for irons dysregulated, and what the research today has proven is that it was a fight between copper and iron. All along. The people didn't know that, and now what we're finding out is that ivermectin is a fertility toxin. Keep ivermectin away. Don't use that horse paste which only made us want to have more. Well, in fact, it's a toxin for repopulating a plant.
Speaker 1:Interesting. We could go on for many more hours and we didn't even really touch on the whole ascorbic acid or vitamin C, but this is why, everybody—.
Speaker 2:We will. I look forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yes, everybody, so this is an impetus to will. I look forward yes, everybody. So this is an impetus to buy Morley's book. I read it in, I think, a day. I was on vacation, sitting by the pool, and I kept turning to my husband and be like, oh, look at this, did you know this? I love to read, but this book really mine is all highlighted and marked up and it's very easy to read. You don't have to be a doctor or medical person to understand it. It's very, very well written, very well organized, and then, of course, you have lots of classes. So give us the website. People want to learn more, they want to dive deeper. Maybe they really don't want to get trained in the root cause protocol, which is what my hygienist is doing right now. How do people find out about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're all over social media, so Facebook, instagram, what have you. It's all revolving around the RCP protocol, but the website is rcp123.org. Put my name in the search engine 300 videos are going to pop up. To the extent that you have that much time. For people who are really curious and want to dig deeper, we have an RCP community, and that you can get to that through the RCP website. And then, for those who really want to do the training, there is the RCP Institute, and that is a subset of the main website. For those who really want to do the training, there is the RCP Institute, and that is a subset of the main website.
Speaker 2:For those who really want to reach out, my email address is my first and last name morleyrobbins at gmailcom, and for that precious few that want to talk, my phone number is 847-922-8061, and bring it on. I talk to people all day long. I hope we have a chance to chat some more, maybe dig into some of the questions we didn't get to, and then we get to the questions of your followers. I can guarantee you this is going to stir the pot.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:We're going to be very watchful about this, and it typically takes three or four bites at the apple to give people a full understanding of what we're talking about and really allow them to reorder their thinking based on mother nature, not based on the narrative. And that's the challenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and my own health struggles ever since. So I took Accutane when I was 18 years old and from that moment, combine that with birth control pills and all these things like my liver was just shot from a very early age and, interestingly, the big story behind my eczema, which happened after the birth of my second daughter, was parasites. That was a huge story of it. It was getting rid of parasites that really helped the eczema come down. But there's still that underlying dysregulation.
Speaker 2:Anyone who has eczema has too much iron in their body.
Speaker 1:There's a story that's not told by anyone. Most physicians have no idea, and this is why I value this, why I do this podcast. We've got to uncover the truth of the matter because, as you said, all of us have the innate healer within. We just have to remove those toxins, we have to renew. You know our bodies are so nutrient deficient too, right. So understanding that and getting the right nutrition into our body in the right forms because that's a big part of it too I do believe supplementation is necessary, but we have to understand the ramifications of the different types of supplements.
Speaker 1:Ideally, we'd get everything from food challenging in these days, so we'll have to have part two, maybe part three, but I really appreciate your time. I know how busy you are and I'm excited for Kelly to come back and we're really going to get revved up and bring this to our local patients anyway, and hopefully we'll be able to do some more classes and stuff like this, because I know you are only one person and that's why it's awesome that you're training everybody else, so that we can all benefit from this innate knowledge that we should all understand.
Speaker 2:I appreciate the opportunity and maybe I'm in the right situation. Maybe I can schlep out to Massachusetts.
Speaker 1:We would love it, kelly. I would in the right situation, maybe I can schlep out to Massachusetts. We would love it, kelly, and I would love to have you.
Speaker 2:My oldest kids are in Boston. It's not that far to get to the Western. What's it like? Two, three hours you're off.
Speaker 1:About two and a half.
Speaker 2:Okay, we might make that happen.
Speaker 1:I would love it.
Speaker 2:Glad you're here. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Thank you, norley, and thank you all for listening. I hope this whets your appetite. You guys, go buy the book. Cure your Fatigue and buy it anywhere. Books are sold and, again, you can read it pretty quickly. You'll want to go back to it again and again, and again, but it's really interesting reading and really will help you on your journey. So until next time, everyone, I hope you have a great day and thanks for listening.
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