In this insightful podcast episode from our practice management podcast series, Advice Leaders, host Matt Van Dijk, General Manager at Praemium, and Francis Rigby, Director and Head of Advice at Financial Advice Matters, delve into the complexities of intergenerational wealth transfer. They discuss strategies for approaching sensitive inheritance discussions, the importance of early financial education, and understanding clients' life goals for tailored financial advice. Additionally, they tackle the challenge of the technology gap in financial services to meet diverse generational expectations. Listen in for expert insights on one of the most pressing issues in Australian financial advice today.
Praemium Limited is the issuer of the Investment Leaders and Advice Leaders podcasts. These podcasts are for information purposes only and aren't tailored to individual financial situations and do not contain financial advice. Views expressed by presenters may not align with Praemium's and nothing in this podcast should be seen as an endorsement or recommendation of the product or strategy. For more information about Praemium, including our disclosure documents, please visit our website.
We recommend that individuals seek professional financial advice before taking action.
In this insightful podcast episode from our practice management podcast series, Advice Leaders, host Matt Van Dijk, General Manager at Praemium, and Francis Rigby, Director and Head of Advice at Financial Advice Matters, delve into the complexities of intergenerational wealth transfer. They discuss strategies for approaching sensitive inheritance discussions, the importance of early financial education, and understanding clients' life goals for tailored financial advice. Additionally, they tackle the challenge of the technology gap in financial services to meet diverse generational expectations. Listen in for expert insights on one of the most pressing issues in Australian financial advice today.
Praemium Limited is the issuer of the Investment Leaders and Advice Leaders podcasts. These podcasts are for information purposes only and aren't tailored to individual financial situations and do not contain financial advice. Views expressed by presenters may not align with Praemium's and nothing in this podcast should be seen as an endorsement or recommendation of the product or strategy. For more information about Praemium, including our disclosure documents, please visit our website.
We recommend that individuals seek professional financial advice before taking action.
My name is Matt Van Dyke. I'm the Head of Sales for Queensland and New South Wales. Joining me today is Francis Rigby. Francis is a Director with Financial Advice Matters and the Head of Advice for that firm. They're a South East Queensland-based firm looking after businesses and clients all up and down the East Coast of Australia now. So thanks for joining.
Speaker 2:Francis, thank you for having me. I know we've known each other for a little bit of time as well, so it's obviously always a pleasure when we get to talk together and talk all things finance. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:So today's discussion and what we wanted to share with you was really around one of the number one unmet advice needs for investors and their advisors, and the research that we conducted showed that really managing inheritance and the transfer of wealth between generations is becoming a significant growing problem and issue for many in Australia.
Speaker 1:And so what we wanted to do was spend a little bit of time talking with you today and just riffing around a few of our ideas where we can hopefully help you, the listener, understand what you can do to not only maintain the relationship with the broader family but also ensure that beneficiaries are getting great advice on not only how to manage but receive their inheritance and the benefactors are really focused on that transference, maintenance and protection of their wealth. So when we, I think, to start off, the first question for you today, francis, is that the research that we were doing when we identified that inheritance and estate planning was the top unmet advice need are you seeing that this is an increased area you're working on within your practice, and how do you approach this with your clients, because it can be quite a sensitive issue as well?
Speaker 2:Look, I think it is, and it's probably one of the reasons why it is one of the most unmet goals of clients and people that you have in your business, and the main reason for it is a lot of people won't actually have the conversation around what happens if I'm not here and that whole concept of death. People would prefer to put their head in the sand and not talk about it. So I think, first of all, the idea around having a good, healthy conversation is where the advisor can step in and be that person to just maybe soften the conversation a little bit, creating it more around the desire to, I suppose, support family in a journey process as opposed to a pinpoint in time. So I think when you start thinking of things rather than okay, I retire, and this is what happens, I die, this is what happens if you're having conversations around a journey and preparing things in perpetuity, then you actually get a really good result. And then obviously, the thing that in our business that we're really trying to do is involve all parties in the conversation. So, whether that be a couple, whether that be a couple and their children, then getting people involved in having that works really really well.
Speaker 2:But I think, before you even start those conversations, I think you really need to sit down and, again, what we're working on and constantly evolving is the art of actually having good conversations around values what's important to you, what are your drivers, what gets you out of bed? Because then when you understand somebody's passion and what they really believe in, then you see an insight into saying okay and then tying in the financial side to those values. It makes it a lot easier to talk about that transfer of wealth or transfer of assets. Whether that be not necessarily when somebody dies, it could be a progressive period of time when they're actually alive and they can actually enjoy passing some of that money to their family if that's what they desire as part of their values, I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:I've often thought that advice boils down to four key concepts or themes where it's all about managing, growing, protecting and transferring wealth. So the financial aspect of financial advice, notwithstanding a lot of the coaching and counselling that tends to go part and parcel with it. So to get to that transferring aspect and for a lot of people it can also be quite a confronting one, because we do deal in the advice profession with the two great certainties of life being both death and taxes, and a lot of investors can be quite pragmatic too. But do you find that some are more keen to discuss inheritance and estate planning than others? Or, for the ones that aren't keen to discuss it, where do they tend to get hung up on it and how do you tend to bring them around to being more open to considering it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, again, getting back to when somebody says one of their values and it's really important for them to look after their family and what they've done in life to grow their wealth is to provide. Again, I like to draw diagrams and I tend to use these flow charts and I also look at things from a timeline viewpoint. One of the things I love to do on a timeline is actually have an arrow so that it's ongoing as opposed to end points in time. So what I talk about is the fact that, again, I think if you talk in retrospect, you can give stories, and talking about some of the stories about something could happen tomorrow, it could happen the next day. It's not an age-based thing, it's just how do you prepare and look after your family.
Speaker 2:So the way I would approach it is actually talking about what are some of the important values you'd like to transfer onto your children, and they might be adult children. So I believe in starting as early as you can, starting and getting them to look at things like goal-setting, understanding what's important to them so they align their finances to them. They don't waste money in other areas, because there's a couple of key things people don't want to talk about One. They don't want to talk about the death side. But probably the big one is, the biggest fear of transfer of assets is that it's all just going to get spent and wasted. And so when you start to look at it from an education viewpoint of the family unit, you're then getting that ability to broach the subject and say what are some of the things that are important to you about your grandkids, your children, for yourselves, what are the things that you're wanting to do?
Speaker 2:And then it's all about actually integrating it into just a conversation, but being mindful of different biases people have. Because, long story short, I've grown up with a family on my one side of my family that you never talked about age, and if you mentioned an age, then it was a really taboo subject because when you understood the circumstances, it was basically that parent passed away earlier, and so then there was this shortened time frame. I actually had to come around or come out at a different angle and talk about different conversations, and so I actually angled it more about looking after my younger brother and few other bits and pieces, and I think you know obviously it's one of the things that I think you do in that space. So, yeah, look, it's a tricky one to navigate, but I think we have a duty to play our role in that, and I think that's probably the space. So I think it's one of the things. If you're trying to look after people's well-being and financial well-being, then that conversation is really important.
Speaker 1:One of the I think there's another sort of direction on this as well is, rather than looking at the older of the two generations, so the ones that are more likely to be benefactors, that's a generation that typically are. They're reasonably confident investors Now. They participated in some of the big IPOs that took place, particularly through the 90s. They're very comfortable in a lot of cases holding some direct stocks, but they can still be a bit skeptical of advice in a lot of ways, and so when you've got, I guess, the children rather than the parents' compliance but you know that there's a bit of a gap because you've got parents that maybe are not advised or just dealing with a very specific part of their overall wealth Are there any sort of ways that you seek to, I guess, approach this from a reverse direction and sort of helping the children with managing what's likely to be a future inheritance and again, some of the taboos that that topic can have when you're talking about planning for what if parents had fallen off the perch last week?
Speaker 2:type of thing. Yeah, look, I think it can happen both ways. So, obviously, down and up, and the conversation. I think if you're not broadening your conversation around, I call it the family tree environment and go okay. Well, even if I'm looking after somebody in their 20s, I really want to actually understand what's their circle of influence to go. How is that going to impact them, whether it be today or future?
Speaker 1:Do you actually do your family tree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So I tend to mind map a lot of things when I'm talking with people, do love a good whiteboard session every now and again and pictures. So I think one of the things you need to understand as well is, you know, there's nothing wrong with asking a question of kinds to what are you expecting from our working relationship? What are some of the things that you're after when we're doing that? And then you actually uncover they're wanting you to look after things that they don't see. They're wanting you to see their blind spots, for example, and one of their blind spots is transfer of wealth. So you know, I think you can still bring it up in stories where you've had experiences where somebody's had their, for example, their superannuation passed from parent to I'll call it non-financial dependent, and then this massive amount of tax disappears.
Speaker 2:And you know, I've seen that in a you know, not family situation, but close to family situation, where that could have been avoided, where different assets were transferred in different ways. And so, you know, I sort of feel it's as an advisor if we can act as a project manager for some of these things, identifying the blind spots and getting some other people in that have an expertise in those areas as well. Like the lawyers, you know good estate planning advice to make sure that set up. But I think if you're starting with the education around, you know, as I said, whether it's a 20-year-old or a mid-30s to be explaining all the different areas and aspects of what happens in finance, whether it be passed on from a state viewpoint, superannuation or the education process around how you look at money. I think is the big one Because realities until they get to that sort of 20s viewpoint it's not taught at school. So unless they've been taught in a family situation, how do you manage money? Those things are shaped.
Speaker 1:It's funny, I was just thinking myself when you were talking about that, and so here's my this is not advice disclaimer, going into this next comment. So for my two children, I have a couple of small investment portfolios that I started for them when they were quite young, and the idea was to buy some, you know, some well-diversified investments that could, you know, perform to a degree over time. That'd be the recipient of birthday money and I want to be able to show the kids over time, you know, the miracle of compounding but also being able to stay on the roller coaster over, you know, the next 20, 30 years until they're allowed to have access to money. And so here's periods where you know markets were volatile. But look, you started here, you've ended up here. This is the power of investing and be able to show them and take them on that journey. So, as they start to you know ages of whether it's nine, 10, 12, through their teens if they're still interested in talking to me, you know be able to show them those annual statements, show them that performance and help them understand sort of why things are happening the way they are.
Speaker 1:And I think one of the challenges we see from a beneficiary aspect can be. Often beneficiaries have never engaged an advisor because they could be on a very different stage of their wealth journey. They could be, you know, at that point of you know, high income, low savings. How do you look at those? Or try and get those children, those young beneficiaries, to really understand the value of advice and attract that negative energy?
Speaker 2:So this is probably the bit that I think advisors got really nothing to do with, and sorry, it has something to do with money and wealth, but it actually starts before money and wealth. So I think you know to be able to have the conversation about, you know what are some of the things you're thinking of doing, and one of the things I really love is the Keith Abraham 25 questions to identify your 100 lifetime dreams. You know, yeah, what was sort of? What is that? So essentially, it's 25 questions that Keith Abraham put out and it's basically, for example, what are three hobbies you wanna pursue? What are three things you wanna do in your existing country? What are three places you wanna visit in the world? What are three things you wanna teach someone else? So they're these thought provoking questions that is actually really hard to do, three things in every category, and so when you go through their exercise, I think one of the things that I like to do is when you've got a client that's you know, I say there in there about a years of wealth accumulation and you know, you know they've got some adult children is to actually offer the ability to go through some of these things that you would think are not financially related, but they're the things that drive the finances.
Speaker 2:So, teaching those basic financial literacy skills, you know how to put all your information on one piece of paper. So I sometimes think you start off by I call it your giving back to, whether it's society, whether it's to your clients, is probably the big thing that I see and that you know, and it's the same old adage If you're adding value to somebody, then they see value in advice and at some point they will pay for that advice because they see value in what you do and what you provide. I mean they also see that you're not just in it for your own benefit. I think that's really key when you do these things is it's you have a benevolence about it. And you know, one of the things I've sort of always talked about in terms of, you know, think of profession. When we're trying to look at I mean, the advice industry as a profession, you see the difference between industry and profession is you do have an element of benevolence, and so I think if you're always focusing and structuring your business around okay, I'm gonna look after people with $1 million and charging $5,000 worth of fees then you have a potential to miss out on that growth trajectory and actually having some of that benevolence in there that people see value in. So again, that's a little bit philosophical, but I think you really see the benefit of not just for those people that are coming to you, getting that insight and things that they don't ask themselves. You don't sit around at the dinner table and go. What's important to you, what are your values? You know what are your top five values, for example, and your values drive your behaviors around finance and everything is driven by behaviors. You know I Some of us learned, some are inherited.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of us learned, some inherited. So, similar to your story, I've got a little investment for my son who's 12. And it was funny because I've had that probably for the last four years, so when he was eight and I sort of went a little bit further. He's a little bit on the spectrum like myself, so he, you know, went into sort of the depth of you've got some investments and he's one of them and it was Wes Farmers, was one of the ones that he was looking at because it was one of the top holdings and you know, I explained to him about who they are and how sort of shares, basically work with, you know, sharing of profit and sums kept for growth and all of that sort of stuff. And as an eight year old he got it pretty well.
Speaker 2:Well, I found out he got it pretty well because my dad, who he calls Papa, picks him up from school every day. Anyway, on the way home they're calling into Bunnings and just before they're walking into Bunnings he, christopher, he turns to Papa and he goes. Papa, just to let you know you can spend as much money in here as you want, because I get some of it. And you know it was sort of that proud moment, obviously an interesting thing to say, but a proud moment, the fact that he actually got the concept of what it's all about.
Speaker 2:But I think also, you know then, you know sort of get back to what we were talking about, the big thing around understanding your values, your behaviors, that can shape what you're doing. And I think you know I've seen sessions, I've done sessions where they're on retirement planning, for example, and it's got nothing to do with money. So it's all about what does retirement look like? It's helping people actually navigate their vision. But what are they gonna do? Because more often than not, you know. You don't know how much money people need until you know how they're gonna live their life.
Speaker 1:And do you find clients are sort of then, when you're talking about what's important to them and where they're going, that they're almost naturally starting to go to that conversation where they're saying, well, yeah, we're gonna do everything that we wanna do, that's on our bucket list over this period. Then we know we're gonna need some money for cost of care because that's gonna become important, and then we're gonna talk about what happens next. Do you find they tend to sort of take themselves on the journey.
Speaker 2:Well, I think absolutely, because as soon as you start talking about values, family comes into the conversation. And then I go if you've got any concerns about your family, have you got any concerns about your adult children? So what you've then got is that ability to go. Oh yeah, I do have concerns about how they they're struggling, how they're gonna get into the housing market, and so that's really a good trigger to talk to them about the transfer of assets, and so what are some of the things important to you about everything that you've created? What do you wanna have happen with that?
Speaker 2:And more often than not, then the conversation comes around whether it's, you know, and depending on how much somebody's accumulated, there's ways that people can do things before they lock the purchase, as so you say. But I think it's, yeah, it's values conversations and all that nice right side of the brain stuff will actually get you across to talking about the numbers and the mechanical side of what happens and what are some of the risks. And I think that's probably the other thing is, again, we've seen lots of stories, sure you have. You've seen lots of things happen, and most people wanna actually maximize, I suppose, what I'd call the net benefit they have, whether it's for their lifestyle, their family's lifestyle.
Speaker 1:I think to.
Speaker 1:I'd like to focus in on something that's not quite granular, but it's a very specific case, and when I reflect on some of the things that I have been perhaps most sort of proud of in my time working in advisory and in investment management, there's actually something you and I worked on together and that was a decision in I think it was 2009 to start working a bit more closely with an estate planning business, and so I wanted to sort of get your view now over what's been a reasonable amount of times past since 2009.
Speaker 1:When I think about it, but from what's actually worked really really well for you when it's come to incorporating the professional services of a specialist estate planning service with your clients, what have you found has worked really really well by project managing that relationship between the client, the lawyers, your own business what's worked well and what hadn't worked well that you thought might? What were some of the learnings over the years when it came to actually going right? We've got some challenges and issues we need to address here. How can we do that and work together as a team of professional and trusted advisors around the client?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good question, because I think the learnings and the mistakes along the journey were probably around talking about estate planning and the importance of it without having a depth of understanding of what does actually mean to them. That's probably the first thing. So a little bit of knowledge. So a little bit is dangerous, but you need enough that you can actually have healthy conversations around, not what to have in place, but again you can have a conversation as to what's important to you and what does it look like. What do you mean, for example?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's our role to say, okay, you need a testamentary trust, you need a state planning. You can suggest certain things and talk about things in a general perspective, but what you can have good conversations around is tell me a little bit about what you want with your wealth that you've created. What kind of legacy do you want to provide? Or, if any, what are you actually wanting to do with your family situation? You can have conversations around some of their concerns, because that's probably one of the ways You've got a child who's a spin thrift if you don't have a marriage on the rocks, correct.
Speaker 2:So identifying some of those I call them trigger points so that will then obviously uncover stories that you've had before. I think it's very much around. We do need to show people the edge of a cliff. You just need to hold their hand. I think when you do that, you need to be there to support them, and then that works.
Speaker 2:Now what I would say is saying to a client it's important you go and do that. Here's the state planning laws details. Go and update it. We'll probably get you 10 percent resolved and 10 percent of people will do it and take action. What I would then say is what? The better way to do it which is what we learned was to actually go. Okay, how about we organize a meeting together? I'll be there for the first 10, 15 minutes so I can set the scene as to your current situation. I'll then exit stage left or right, depending on which way the doors. Then, once I've done that, then they can then have the conversation that they have and do their professional bit.
Speaker 2:So I think the risk is not to cross the boundaries of I'm not the lawyer giving you the legal advice, but it's very much around understanding what that looks like to go. You need to say to people look, it's not a prep them, it's not an easy conversation to have, so I'm there for you. At the beginning I'll set the scene. Help people put their life finances on one piece of paper, because that's a great tool that they can take. Do you share your fact-finding with the? Well, actually I probably wouldn't call it a fact-find, so it's very much what I'll call you on a page, which is your information on one page and left side of the brain. And look, that's not anything new. There's a lot of people out there that do it and I won't go down a path of and they're talking about all the individuals that have come up with that idea. But it's that mind mapping, I think, really helps one client's go. I can see it and I can take it with me as soon as you're flicking through pages.
Speaker 1:Very difficult, that's for later on, when you think about the difference as well between the generations, in terms of what maybe the older Gen Xs to the boomers and what their expectations are from an advice, particularly when there's been a relationship there with either you or with advisors over the years and it's now with you and the next generation, I think one of the challenges that I've always seen is that we can move very, very slowly in advisory and financial services from a technology perspective. Sometimes I still remember it was only a few years ago where there needed to be some money moved around between a couple of products and I was asked by the provider to fax something to them. How do you manage that technology goal for that technology gap between potentially what older clients either want or expect and that's been changing versus newer clients where, frankly, if you haven't got something on your phone, it's a bit weird?
Speaker 2:So there's an interesting one. So, if you go back to what I sort of was talking about in relation to engaging with that younger generation and talking to them about that right side of the brain, what are the things important, what are the values, all of those sorts of things, and what are your behaviors around money? So, talking to somebody about how do you operate at the moment, what do you do with your money at the moment, you will often find that they will talk about apps that they're using, whether it be the old Acorns raise account that people are using where they tap and save, whether it be the way they interact with their bank, whether it be the fact that people use apps to buy goods and services overseas and sell things, buy and sell. I'm not just talking about Facebook marketplace, which is probably more an older generation now, but it's around actually having an understanding of those things and being able to have a conversation around it. So it doesn't necessarily mean you have to use it yourself.
Speaker 2:And if you don't have that ability, understanding the business sense to have a diversity within your business and I think that's probably one of the things I love about our businesses we have a diversity of thinking, a diversity of, I would say, the values are the same, but the diversity of personality, and so therefore, that helps with identifying, and one of the things that I tend to get involved in sometimes is there's a mismatch of personality.
Speaker 2:I often have the ability to realign that within the business to the right fit, and I've got where we have parents and then children and the children were with the same advisor. The parents loved that advisor, the kids didn't, and so I was able to shift them to somebody who could relate a little bit more. So, again, I don't necessarily think you have to be five to ten years plus your age gap. I just think you have to sit in each space, so a little bit like the personality traits that we all go through, if you have an ability to flex into different areas, whether that be up or down, age is irrelevant, it's how you interact, and I think often I find that most of the issue is us when we look in the mirror.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, we found some commercially. We found some really good statistics too around what a family group is worth to a business as opposed to just dealing with an individual. And so there's not only the when you can manage multiple generations. You've not only generally got better commercial outcomes and I don't want to shy away from commercial outcomes either, because it's, I think, no matter what you do. You can't just sit in that. No matter where you sit in a professional space, I think we all get out of bed for the same reason Each day, which is to help those people in our community be better off for having dealt with our expertise and what we can bring to the table to make their lives better.
Speaker 1:The other challenge, I think sometimes is that one of the really concerning stats we find is that 90% of people, when they receive an inheritance, often don't stay with the benefactor's advisor because they think that's not the right advice for me, so that what you're hearing or, sorry, what I'm hearing from you, or what you're saying, is really good around that and your business, I guess, does have a good bit of scale or accommodates the movement there if you can find perhaps a more appropriate fit, but it's probably equally a challenge for people running in a with a smaller head count to go. Well, how do I provide myself in that multi-generational capacity and not be seen to be either? You've got a problem with both ends. You could be seen to be either too young or too old, depending on the.
Speaker 2:And I think again, if you get back to probably what I was talking about in terms of behaviorally, if you can not alter your behavior, but if you can alter the way you interact. So, rather than be polarizing in one environment, adjust your style to suit who you're sitting in front of rather than people that are fitting into your style. So again, it all comes around to understanding people, and I'm a big advocate on our profession is very much psychological and behavioral, because that goes through finance with everything.
Speaker 1:So it's so true. I remember starting when I first started working for a bank and trying to understand what is a business, how does this work, what is business all about? And then just that epiphany you have where businesses are just about people and hopefully people who are all hitting in more or less the same direction and then trying to work together.
Speaker 2:It was. Yeah, it's identifying what other people value, not what you value, because it is often different, and I think that's the real key is when you understand that. And again, without judgment. I think that's the other interesting point is don't have your bias judgment on what they value.
Speaker 2:And it is tricky because, as advisors, we have things that tell us that our jobs to try and help people create wealth for the future, and all of those sorts of things, but sometimes it's not, and so sometimes the younger generation is like how do I navigate from A to B, how do I get there and how do I make some of these decisions? And I think what I Can? That be validation. Yeah, some of it's validation, some of it's new ideas, some of it's the fact that they're wanting you to tell them the best way of achieving what they're after, not tell them what they're after.
Speaker 2:And I think, as I said, I think it's really good to have these conversations, because I think the more we have these with people, the easier it is to engage and I think the transfer of wealth then becomes a lot easier. And again, as I said, if you have these conversations with your clients, you'll find that the deal will come up They'll talk about aren't the best EU's done all sorts of different things in some form of capacity and how they want to predict it. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:So I think really and I'll finish with two questions shortly but I think the best summary can take from that and this again was really supported by a lot of our research is most clients genuinely want to have the conversation and they trust their advisor to be a great person to have that conversation with.
Speaker 1:And I think one of the resounding sort of you know through puts with what you've been talking about today, Francis, has been make sure you're having the conversation, get people involved, do it in a way that they're going to be comfortable with and make sure you can be aware of some of that sensitivity. The two questions I had, I guess, to try and wrap up for you with that, I was keen about, so I'm going to put you on the spot with these a little bit. So the first one was, With the 2020 clarity of hindsight, what's something that you would have started doing sooner had you had the opportunity to do it or were aware of it? The second question is to reform this in slightly different ways. To look forward, what's something you'd like to do more of around helping clients from an intergenerational wealth perspective or being able to manage their inheritances?
Speaker 2:and their beneficiaries. There are really good questions. I think something I wish I'd done a lot earlier of was look in the mirror and do the self-analytical viewpoint of myself and why I have certain biases, particular ways, and what I do in that space. Because, again, from a judgment viewpoint, it is actually hard to have no judgment when you're doing things. It's something that I've worked on over 30 years in this business and profession. I think you had to look in the mirror to do that and it took me a long time to look in the mirror and often look at it and go. Often when I react to things, majority of the time it's because of me, not someone else. I think when you look at that, it's actually really fascinating to be able to take yourself out of body experience and go. That's something I'm going to fix. Then that leads on to focusing on again another great person in our profession, carl Richards, with his lovely Venn diagram of things that are important to you versus things I can control, and make sure you spend your space on the stuff that's important to you, but you can also control it. I think that's probably the other piece that I would say is, if I'd have done those two things earlier. It helps in business. It helps in all the interactions that we have. That's probably that space I think what I want to do more of. To be honest, when you asked me to do this podcast, I was obviously one honored that you respect me enough to have a fair conversation. But, more to the point is to be able to pass I won't say knowledge or expertise, but just pass any of my learnings that I call it bloodied my nose quite a few times, I think. Pass any of that on and if it resonates with people and they use and it works, then fantastic, because I think the more people we can help, if we can add a positive difference to people and their lives and generations. That's obviously what we do it for.
Speaker 2:Reality is people see value and happy to pay for that. It's like a doctor you can say there's a lot of benevolence in it. However, they get paid very well for what they do. I still have no. My thought processes is if you attribute a value to it, then people are more likely to one take your advice, put things into place. It's why people have a personal trainer. I can go look out in the park if I really wanted to, but the reason I have a personal trainer and I pay good money for that is because they one identify my blind spots. I don't have to think about some of the things when I'm in that space and a lot of people are like that, about money on a day-to-day basis. Again, I'd probably say, do more of things like this and, passing on that knowledge, I've already started doing a lot of things in the financial wellness space.
Speaker 1:I think on that note as well, the point I'll finish on with this is that if this is important to you, the listener, in terms of what you're trying to do in your practice, don't keep it a secret. Make sure that you're talking to your clients, you let it be known, get it onto your website, your materials, your newsletters. If you're going to actively promote and develop this service because it's such an amazing bit of work that really adds so much value and good advice to your investors, your clients and their families make sure you tell people about it. Don't keep it a secret on the way through. Look, I'll finish up by saying for us, it's been absolute pleasure to host you today. I'm incredibly pleased that you took me up on the offer to have a bit of a fireside chat. I hope we can do it again for another topic in the not too distant future. I look forward to it. Thank you again. Thanks very much, cheers.