Imagine walking through the labyrinth/complication situation of healthcare, insurance, and Medicaid complexities. Sounds daunting, right? This is precisely what we navigate in our enlightening conversation with Carol Campbell, a renowned board-certified patient advocate and caregiver coach. Together we unravel the complexities of the healthcare system, making sense of insurance limitations, the concept of "spend down", and the five-year look back period in Medicaid eligibility. Unmissable insights are shared, including a rare case of a mother voluntarily transferring her house to her daughter at the age of 70.
As caregivers ourselves, we understand the challenges you face. We've been there, wrestling with the guilt of accepting help, and the constant battle to recognize our limitations. That's why we bring to you an unfiltered conversation on the importance of respite care. Sharing our experiences with families hesitant to accept assistance, we underscore the necessity of being honest about your limitations. We also discuss various resources available for help, including Medicaid programs and caregiver respite programs through the VA.
Wrapping up our chat with Carol, we dive into the significance of being proactive in your own healthcare journey. From the benefits of bringing a list of medications and questions to appointments, to the importance of utilizing the patient portal, we offer practical advice for self-advocacy. How can spirituality play a role in the healthcare journey? We share our personal experiences and beliefs. We close with a heartfelt prayer for all caregivers. Join us for this invaluable episode filled with guidance and inspiration that could change your life.
Imagine walking through the labyrinth/complication situation of healthcare, insurance, and Medicaid complexities. Sounds daunting, right? This is precisely what we navigate in our enlightening conversation with Carol Campbell, a renowned board-certified patient advocate and caregiver coach. Together we unravel the complexities of the healthcare system, making sense of insurance limitations, the concept of "spend down", and the five-year look back period in Medicaid eligibility. Unmissable insights are shared, including a rare case of a mother voluntarily transferring her house to her daughter at the age of 70.
As caregivers ourselves, we understand the challenges you face. We've been there, wrestling with the guilt of accepting help, and the constant battle to recognize our limitations. That's why we bring to you an unfiltered conversation on the importance of respite care. Sharing our experiences with families hesitant to accept assistance, we underscore the necessity of being honest about your limitations. We also discuss various resources available for help, including Medicaid programs and caregiver respite programs through the VA.
Wrapping up our chat with Carol, we dive into the significance of being proactive in your own healthcare journey. From the benefits of bringing a list of medications and questions to appointments, to the importance of utilizing the patient portal, we offer practical advice for self-advocacy. How can spirituality play a role in the healthcare journey? We share our personal experiences and beliefs. We close with a heartfelt prayer for all caregivers. Join us for this invaluable episode filled with guidance and inspiration that could change your life.
And we're recording. Can you tell if we are? Yes, I see it. Okay, well, I'm going to just allow you to introduce yourself, but at first I want to say thank you for coming on to talk to us. Regarding being an advocate for patients, it really extends more than just patients, because we're advocates really more for family and friends, because they need the information more than the patient does. And I gave you a little bit about me. I've been an inpatient case manager, I've been a nurse for 38 years and, as I tell my students, I'm also an adjunct instructor, as I tell my students and I tell other people who want to have a clinical group or who desire to teach, and they said I don't know enough. I said when you teach, you learn.
Speaker 2:So it is an ongoing process.
Speaker 1:You don't have it all, you don't have all the answers, but once you teach, you learn. So I like picking up little nuggets, tidbits, that I can pass on to other family members and friends, neighbors, whoever call upon me. So, and when I heard you speaking I think it was last week I was like, wow, I need to talk to her, I need her to talk to my audience. So if you would go ahead and get started introduce yourself, I would appreciate it. Okay, if time allows, Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me. My name is Carol Campbell and for those of you who are old enough that Campbell like the soup you know I say that.
Speaker 1:That's how I spelled it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, the young people don't know about Campbell soup.
Speaker 1:I think they're more into the Roman noodles something. I've never heard.
Speaker 2:But we grew up with television commercials and they just stream everything. They don't see those commercials.
Speaker 1:No, they don't.
Speaker 2:It's the way. So, again, carol Campbell, I am a board certified patient advocate, I am a caregiver coach, I am the co-founder of leave the light on foundation Inc. It is a caregiver support organization of 501 C3. And I am also a host of Carol Campbell coaching caregivers with music.
Speaker 2:And I just want to start off by saying that I have, like you know, a love for nurses, because my whole journey and starting to help caregivers came because my mom was ill, and so most of us, you know, have these stories about taking care of someone, and so my mom was ill and she was in different facilities and the nurses were the ones that were giving me that information that I needed.
Speaker 2:That you talk about, you know educating yourself as you go through it, and I'm going to tell you something, especially nurses of color. They were looking out for my mom, looking out for me and telling me how to get around the system and how to make sure she was okay. And in this hospital, don't sign that DNR. You might be able to do it in some other hospitals, but in this hospital, don't sign the DNR because she won't get any services. So I was getting a lot of great love and support and education from the nurses, the nurses. You know I have so much love for nurses. So you tell me, do you have any specific question or you want me to go on a little bit more about my background?
Speaker 1:You can go on with your background and then I will add to what you just said about the DNR. Okay, and now the hospitals that I have and I'm sorry I jumped ahead the hospitals that I have worked for. Just because the DNR is written does not stop care, and I've worked for several hospitals in the Birmingham area. We never took it that way. The doctors never took it that way, especially. It just means that we weren't going to escalate any care, but we weren't going to stop anything. We weren't going to put people on pause because people walk in and tell you oh, I'm a DNR, so they're walking in and telling you that that means they're not quite either. Don't understand what that means or they're not quite ready on the other side.
Speaker 1:So but we always gave the same amount of care. Now, and you know they can change that at the drop of a hat and we often have that one day they're DNR, one day they're not, one day they're DNR, one day they're not. So they have to really say don't cold them. You know, and it's, I know, it's, do not resuscitate, but it's kind of what it is. Yeah, we still give care. We still give care. We don't escalate it too high.
Speaker 1:But, when you have that family that's kind of on the cusp of not sure what they want to do. You need to take it. You just need to take it all the way and then you know what they said is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. That way your cover you and the hospital cover because it's not just going to be you, you know it's everybody needs to be covered legally with what's going on. But no, if you please.
Speaker 2:Right, and I don't want to give the impression that DNRs are a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah you didn't. Yeah, because it passed from other people. I'm like where they were right? That's how that supposed to go.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you know, my mom was in several different facilities and it was really only one facility where that was the case and a sister nurse I'm a color sister nurse. She was just on point. She would just pull me to the side or she would call me, and she was. You know, I was very clear that I was not to reveal my source of information, you know. So I detected her.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you and take care of. You know that you don't want to do, especially when people are advocating for you and your loved one. Exactly, you don't want to do that. I feel as though sometimes I've been on the cuss of having administration call me down. I would have said the same thing. I said upstairs, that I would have said in administration. But the advice I gave was legal and it was appropriate, but I gave more than I know some of my coworkers would give. But for you to make that best informed decision, I think you need to have it Right. I think you need to have that information and to this day I don't have any regrets about it. Not at all, because you have to be ready, or as ready as you can be, to accept whatever decision there is. So, yes, there's always going to be, as the phrase goes around in the bush.
Speaker 2:Right, right. And so there were just so many nurses that helped me out through that period when my mom was ill and you know, like I said, they were educating me and so, as I was going through this process of just kind of managing her care, I learned a lot. Now, simultaneously, I was teaching an adult education course and it was getting certified medical administrative assistance certified, and so I already have that base knowledge.
Speaker 2:You know, but I learned so much more through, you know, managing mom's care and all these nurses and social workers, and you know they would literally just pull me in and say, ok, this is what's happening, this is what they're going to tell you, but this is the truth, this is what your mom needs, you know. And I just remember. I remember the first time a social worker said to me your mom's Medicare, her 100 days of her Medicare coverage, is about to expire, so we need to go ahead and start an application for Medicaid. And I was like what?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like what are you talking about? Like I was completely clueless as much as I was teaching Medicare and Medicaid, I didn't know about the 100 days, right, and I just want to. When did you find out?
Speaker 1:Yesterday, not yesterday, a couple of days ago, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the average person doesn't know, you know. You just think you're on, medicare is going to cover it. You know what's the problem. So, for those who are listening and like, what are you talking about? Basically, like, so if you have a loved one who goes to the hospital or to a facility, the clock starts, you know, day by day. Right? If your loved one is still there, you know, at day 95 or day 90 or whatever the case is, medicare, at 100 days, is no longer going to pay for it and so it has to, has to switch over to Medicaid If you call, if your loved one qualifies for it, right? So Medicaid is for low income. Someone is, beyond, you know, below a certain income level.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Right, and so they only pick you up if you fall within that income level. But now if you happen to have you know a couple of houses and you know you got you don't need to have a couple of houses. You know one house and a decent savings account, you suddenly don't qualify. No, mm, hmm. So I learned all of these things and so you know for your listeners, this is something that you want to pay attention to as well. You want to make sure, if you think, because most people who don't qualify actually need it. You know, it's just that there's just a little bit over that threshold, you know, but don't panic, because you still can get the Medicaid is just that you have to go through a process called the spend down Right. And what were you going to say?
Speaker 1:I think that it hurt my heart when you said that, because I went, yeah, you got to spend down and I just told someone this this past week. They don't like to have no more than two grand in the bank Right and if assets need to be transferred, they should have been transferred five years prior. But who thinks about that?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, I learned that several years ago and I was kind of broken hearted when I heard it. I'm like man, you know you've worked for this, you know you. You know you've done this, you've done this and now you want me to do what?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And this is when I was a young nurse and the social worker. Like I said, you have to have a bond with people. You know, just learn as much as you can learn. Even as a health care provider it's not that easy. And what really kind of sticks in my craw is when a person tell me I have good insurance. Well, you know, that means nothing. It means you're insured, but it is. I tell people your insurance is limited. That means that doesn't mean that you have card, want to have and do whatever needs to be done. And the people who, um, they have, um, I have a blue cross and I'm like what does that mean? I have to be sure with the federal government. I think what does that mean? I still have to run it to see if you're real, if it is okay, are you eligible? They just think that's part block, but it is not. All insurers have a limit, they have a cap to be done.
Speaker 1:It's comical. Someone told me this patient, I have the same insurance that the president had. I said which president? I need to find out where you were. And she said the president of the United States. I said did you have to pay a copay when you came in here? Well, yeah, I said I'm sure the press does not have to pay a copay. Okay, I don't get leveled Please.
Speaker 2:Don't get confused about that.
Speaker 1:It's those little nuggets that you're surprised to hear, but you have to still educate along the way. That doesn't make it part block to give.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly. And so, especially if you're talking about long-term care, Absolutely Excuse me. Even if you're talking about at home care, so well, just to go back, so I'm not jumping all over the place, we're talking about that spin down. So if you're taking care of someone and they're over that threshold of having assets and money, like you were just saying, Carol, and you have to it's called this look back. So you can't. If you say you have $50,000 in savings, right, Excuse me. Or your mom, who you're taking care of, has $50,000 in savings, but you know that that's not gonna go a long way in terms of her long-term care, and you apply for Medicaid, they're gonna say, well, there's $50,000, so you gotta use that $50,000 toward her care before we kick in. Is basically what they're saying. Right? You can't just say, well, we're gonna give it to her granddaughter and her niece who needs help with her son, and you can't start giving it away to people who need it Now. That makes sense to us.
Speaker 2:If someone else in our family needs it, let's give it to them. But how the system works is the spin down has to be applied to the loved one, to the patient. It does. Right and so if you're gonna spend $50,000, it has to go through the long-term care or at home care, or it could go to an elder attorney who's working on paperwork for you, or it can go to a patient advocate, but it has to go towards services for that patient. That's the spin down, yeah.
Speaker 1:Great information. Great information Because a lot of people think they can transfer that fund and I tell them no, we can't transfer, it's non-transferable.
Speaker 2:And when people say, when you hear that term five-year, look back. That means that that can't be done within five years of the illness. Sure, so even if you say mommy's getting really sick right now and so let me start spinning down now, and then she needs the long-term care within a year, Medicaid is still saying you know what? It was only a year ago that you started doing this.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't really apply. You know it doesn't Right. They want it to be five years out that you started like dispersing money to family members or whatever. That's what that five-year look back.
Speaker 1:And that's great information as well, because people think, well, I can just transfer it, put it in my account and everything will be okay. And I'm like it doesn't work that way. Well, I'm sure it will. And when they tell, give me that type of statement, I say okay, then you know, because you have to back off, because you can't make people receive that information. But when they get it from the source, then they rely. Well, you tried to tell and all I can do is try to tell you. I can't make you receive the information, but that is good information for people to know.
Speaker 2:And it's hard. Sometimes you got to send, especially if you're talking to like. You know I'm a patient advocate, but sometimes my own family members or close friends can't receive it from me, you know. Oh no, you know, I could talk to them, raise my hand, I'm there, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, sometimes you just got to send them somewhere else so they can hear it from someone else. So and so, whoever you know, they just need to go somewhere else and get that information but be proactive in it. And you know, I've worked with some families who have been actually very proactive and when, like one mother turned 70, and in this one case that I worked with, when she had turned 70, I think she's like 85 now, but when she turned 70, this mother went ahead and put her house in her daughter's name. She wasn't sick, but she just based it on if she were to need, you know, medicaid, she said. And she looked at her family and how long they lived and when they started, you know, like her siblings and her parents, and she just kind of, you know, and said, well, most of us live till 85, 90, but cousins such and such and such and such got really sick in their 70s. So I'm just gonna do this at 70. And so that's very. You really don't hear that that often.
Speaker 1:You really don't. You really don't. You hear about the fight, but you don't hear about someone voluntarily transferring their property to someone at a certain age. I mean it is a good idea and I tell my family members, the patients' families, when they bring that subject up. Well, I tried to get mom to sell the house and come live with us a few years ago and I was like, yeah, she refused. Oh yeah, her and dad both refused. I said, well, that's all you can do with acts. You can't make them do it. Because they raised you in that home, they raised your sibling, they purchased that home so that they would have somewhere to go, and they're gonna dig their heels in and refuse to go. So it has to be their decision. And that's when they said so. You heard this before. I said quite a few times I have heard this before.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and listen, there's so many different dynamics in terms of family, how family handles finances and care and the whole thing, and so every family is unique, as I say. And so if you have a family who not responsible or not as responsible for things like sometimes parents have adult children who have made really bad decisions and so that they can't, they don't feel comfortable handing things over to them or turning things over to them in that way Exactly, and so every family is different in terms of what decisions they need to make. But when I work with caregivers, I say to them it's okay if you can't, if this is not something that you need to turn over to your adult children, but identify someone. It could be cousin, it could be the daughter of your best friend, it could be but just find someone. And sometimes you can go up more professional services and look for representations illegal representations, for example to handle that estate for you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's. There's no one case that fits everything. So you know they're different dynamics and you have to approach them, but they don't really a lot of times I'm not an advocate, but I'm not a coach they don't always give you all the information immediately, and that's fine. They're giving you bits and pieces. So when you make suggestions, you know how do you counter that, how do you deal with that.
Speaker 2:Right. So when I'm coaching families I'm actually getting a lot of times. When I talk to families, I'm getting a lot of information because, you know, I've kind of set it up where, as we have our first session, where we're just kind of going, we're just talking you know what I mean and we're talking about dynamics and we're talking about your relationship with your mom. Listen, there are people who are have to take care of dad, but dad used to molest them. You know, not to get grim, but this is the reality of we don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:It is the reality.
Speaker 2:It is the reality, yeah, and so I really delved into I usually delve into you know what's the background. Talk to me, because we're, you know, standing from the outside. You think it shouldn't matter. It does matter, like what type of relationship you had in the past and whether you as an adult child can handle this responsibility. You know, or have you ever gotten, you know, therapy, for whatever the issues are with you and your parent, or if it's a wonderful love fest, are you too emotionally? You know it can you not make decisions because you know you can't even think about putting mom somewhere else or what's happening to her? So maybe you need someone that's more neutral, because you know you guys are like best friends, you know. So it goes from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Speaker 2:But to answer your question, yes, I just kind of deal with each family caregiver one-on-one. I get all the background information. I understand their personalities, I understand their ability to manage finances, how to stay organized. You know, a lot of times people are just not. You know, they don't understand the lingo. So I try to speak in layman's terms all the time. I try to talk to those people who are, who won't talk to the clinician because they feel like they're not smart enough or they don't really know what to say, or they don't understand, or those just say yes to everything and they haven't understood a thing that they've been told you know. And then they forward me the information and then I break it down, and so it's just a process of creating a relationship with someone so that I can coach them through what needs to be done next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is so true. Now, have you ever had a situation where they appreciated everything you said, agreed with you, basically, that their loved one was going to need long-term care after the hospitalization and they were going to step up and do what they needed to do? You try to let them know. The nurses are here 24-7. Now who's going to be at your home 24-7 to assist you? And they still insist upon caring for their loved one at home. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:I don't get a lot of that. I get a lot of. I got a lot of like of exactly what you said. Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?
Speaker 1:I can't do this.
Speaker 2:Once in a while I'll get someone who believes that they can do it themselves, and sometimes I have to just let them try Because I can say I always tell them, you're going to need help, you're going to need help. I always tell every single one. And I also say, because sometimes someone will be discharged from the hospital and the family members are clueless of what to do next, and I say to them you should have had a discharge nurse and a discharge plan. And so what I'm finding is, depending on the location and the lack of personnel, sometimes that process is being skipped over or families are given a list of people to call here when before. So it depends on the hospital, the city, the location, the hospital. Right, you can get a total discharge planning and a nurse, navigator and the whole thing, and they're walking the families through step one, two, three and four and helping them and making sure that they have home health coming into the home. That's the perfect scenario.
Speaker 2:Other scenarios, depending on the hospital. Like I said, they're just kind of shoved out the door and given a list and telling the family you handle it. And so with those, if I do have a family who feels as though they can handle it by themselves. I try to remind them, like you said, listen, you had there was 24 hour care here at the hospital. You're not gonna have that. You need to sleep at some point.
Speaker 2:And so I've been helping caregivers for what is it about 13 years now, and I'm gonna say I can count on one hand where I had people who really felt like they could do it by themselves. But you have to understand, if they're coming to me, they understand that they can't do it by themselves. So that's probably just not my target. You know what I mean. Sure, sure, but I know that they do exist. Those people do exist where they feel as though they can handle it. But again, I think that you know my advice for someone who's trying to help someone or trying to convince someone that they need help is, you know, try your best, give them the information and just let them, you know, go through it for about a week and then they'll realize that they need help and they'll reach out. They will Sometimes you can't force things, people just have to step through it.
Speaker 1:No, you can't force, and we give as much information as we can. Well, we give as much information as needed. And I've had the family member to tell me and the doctor I can do it, we'll do it. And we're like you're gonna need help, you're really really gonna need help. And here's a list of agencies. Maybe you have some family just calls, check around. No, I'm gonna do it all by myself. And I'm like, okay, and the day before discharge she buys me. I can't do this, I gotta keep my grandbaby. I was like whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is the discussion we've been having with you for at least seven days now, and I hear you have changed your mind, which you definitely have that option, but we could have already worked on a lot of this. Seven days ago.
Speaker 1:So I went and spoke with the physician and she said are you kidding me? I'm asking oh no, wouldn't there get you about this doc? And she dropped everything she was doing and she went into her and she told her now we could have had this done, we could have had this done. You talked to us three different occasions Because we had a meeting. It wasn't just we spoke at the bedside, we had a nice comfortable meeting room and we discussed it. And she said you'd never mentioned a grandchild. We told you you would need the help. Now we can still put a discharge plan in place, but you should have been more forthcoming with us. And that's really. It Just be forthcoming. And, like you say, there are some family members that aren't forthcoming with their family members, so you just have to be ready to pivot Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's the perfect way to say it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, because the job still has to be done. And me, if the patient has been assigned to me, I want to feel comfortable that they will be okay at home, that I will, I want to be comfortable with that or wherever they desire to send them. So it is, it's still challenging at best.
Speaker 2:Now go ahead, go ahead, carol.
Speaker 2:No, I was just going to say that there are some family members who actually can't handle the bulk of the care Like they physically can handle it, but they haven't factored in needing a break.
Speaker 2:Or they haven't factored in, you know, going to the grocery store, you know, like the basics they just haven't factored in, they're just thinking about can I handle the care? And some families are really good at that personal care and you know the daily activities and the whole thing, but they just haven't factored in everything else. And then that's when it starts becoming overwhelming and so you know, perhaps they just need a break. And so then in that kind of situation what I do is make sure that they are talking to their family members or neighbors or church members, et cetera, so that they can have that break, because in that case that's the only time that they actually do need help, so that they can have someone come sit with mom for, you know, four hours while they go run errands or just go get their nails done, or whatever the case is. They just need a little respite.
Speaker 1:And that's true. Now that brings me to a question who can get respite and when?
Speaker 2:Okay, so the broad term of respite, as you now, is just take a break, right, but I think you were referring to the more formal term of meaning that someone is actually providing a respite for them. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone who's not on hospice, someone who's you know. You're just caring for your loved one at home. You're coming home to them every day caring for them. How do they get respite other than with a family member? Is there an agency or is there rules and regulations that apply where they can have some respite here?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So there are like first of all, medicaid does provide that, but you have to qualify that. So if your loved one has already qualified for Medicaid, then there are programs in your state that give respite to caregivers, right, there's also, if you are taking care of a veteran, there are a caregiver respite programs under the VA. If you, there are organizations that actually specifically take care of respite. So now, some of this respite he can go. Either way, it could be someone coming into your home and caring for your loved one so that you could take a break. It could be that you qualify for your loved one to go into a facility for a weekend or for four days or a week while you travel, and then that's taken care of.
Speaker 2:So these programs exist but they are very state-specific and so I always say, you know, I always direct people to the Office of Aging, department of Aging, rather, and people always say well, you know such and such, I'm taking care of my husband. He's not a senior. Why am I going to the Department of Aging? Because it's kind of a catch-all and it's very broad. But then it's also very state and county and city-specific and so you can literally so like for example, you're in Alabama, right, carolyn? Yes, I am.
Speaker 2:So if you were to just Google, department of Aging in Alabama I believe in your state is going to say Department of Senior Citizens, probably, and so. But if you just use any state, if you just use that term, it's going to direct you to the exact department and then you just click on it and then you click on Resources and, depending on the state, it's literally going to take you straight to whatever you need, right? So if you need respite, it's going to direct you to nonprofit organizations, it's going to direct you to Medicaid, it's going to direct you to Veterans Administration Such a great umbrella and I always direct people to that because it will cover not only senior citizens but those who are disabled and other aspects as well. But respite is very, very important. I think a lot of people, especially a lot of people of color, I think we as a community have been taught to struggle, struggle, struggle, and it's OK to struggle, struggle, struggle, but it's not OK, it's not.
Speaker 1:OK, it is not OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is not weak. It is not a lack of faith, it is not. You know you need a break.
Speaker 1:I break with you 100%, but you use that magic term when it came to respite Medicaid. So if someone who does not qualify for Medicaid and still needs respite, how? Do they get that.
Speaker 2:Right. So there are various caregiving organizations, there are churches it's hard for me to say without a specific case. So this is what I would do if I'm coaching someone, they would tell me where they live and I'd literally go to, like I said, the Department of Asia and just look at all of the respite services. And sometimes it's an organization you've never even heard of, and it could be an organization in that county where that person lives and that organization is working with 50 different families who have farms, let's say, and they are offering a bed and breakfast to caregivers to stay for weekends for free. You know what I mean. Yeah, there are, just like so many, it's just countless things that are actually out there that people don't know about, but it's usually kind of state or county specific and it's just that people aren't looking, they don't know where to look, and that's how I usually get most of the people that I work with, because they really don't know. It's exhausting, really.
Speaker 2:You're already trying to take care of somebody, now you're trying to figure out where this so-called respite is. You know, absolutely, yes, yes, but I would say the key I would say to the average person is to start with your family. But you know your family better than we know your family, yeah. So listen, if Cousin James is going to drive you crazy, don't call Cousin James. You know what I mean? Yeah, but you know who's in your family that can help you. We already know that. We already know who the top three people are, and we know the other three people that you don't even want to call.
Speaker 2:So let's be smart about it. If you are blessed enough to have at least three people in your family, or even one that can give you a break, you're going to start there. If not just then whiten your circle. Then it's maybe friends, or maybe it's a church family, et cetera, et cetera. If you cannot figure it out there, and then you're really going to look, like I said, as a Department of Aging, because they're just going to have this umbrella of different organizations in different places and there's other things that you can Google. There's tons of caregiving organizations that would have listings, but that state is going to give you stuff that's specific to your area.
Speaker 1:OK Now you mentioned the VA a little while ago. What resources. We know you have to be a veteran, but that is why you're out there. You need to be a veteran. What services can they potentially receive about being a veteran?
Speaker 2:Right, okay, so the the veterans, of course, you know I go straight to the caregiver, but the veteran has all types of services, right. So, but if you're taking care of someone who is a veteran, there's like two routes to go. So one route is if the veteran has like a service, disability, right, service connected. I think that's the term that you service connected. I think you're right, I've heard that term, service connected, disability and simply that just means that whatever problem that they have is started when they were active duty, right, and even if it, if, even if it's much worse now, it's just like the beginning stages of it. Now that list is much bigger now. You know the current administration kind of broaden that that list now before you have to really come up with.
Speaker 2:You know something major. But that list is it actually includes high blood pressure, right, diabetes, it, you know it includes things that are pretty common now Anyway, so it has to be service connected, and so for caregivers to get the financial part of it, okay so and I'm starting with financial because you know a lot of people just need that help. But there's other services as well, including respite. But let's just say you're taking care of Uncle Joe and Uncle Joe was determined by the VA to be 75% disabled in its service connected, service connected disabled. So he needs help with his you know his routine of getting dressed and bathed etc. Excuse me.
Speaker 2:So because of that qualification, you can now apply for a stipend Right. So they will pay you monthly. It depends on the region you're in. So you're going to get paid. You may be doing the same thing for your Uncle Joe in Mississippi that someone's doing for for Uncle Charles in California, and you want to know why you know your friend in California is stipend is much bigger than yours in Mississippi. It's because it's a regional right and it's cost of living Right. So obviously, if you are renting an apartment with Uncle for Uncle Joe or in Uncle Joe's outside of LA, that cost is going to be skyrocketed versus maybe a small town in Mississippi. Right, so it's regional is cost of living, so the stipend is going to differ depending on where you live, excuse me, but anyway, so you can go online, you can call the VA, you can go to your local VA and just get an application. If you're not, you know, if you're not savvy online, just stop by your VA, that one closest to you, and get an application. Or you can go online and fill out the application online and they will tell you if you are, if you qualify or not. Okay, so that's one support that you can get from the VA.
Speaker 2:Another support is, like I said that they do have respite programs for if you're taking care of a veteran Now, I believe the double check it, but I believe that these respite programs are not necessarily have to be service connected, but just that you're taking care of a veteran. Right, they were active at some point. They're a veteran now and you're taking care of them and then you can go, and so there's a kind of caregiver support program that gives rest, with the give counseling as well therapy. You know, you could be taking care of someone who has been, you know, has some psychological issues you know PTSD, and they have a lot of, you know, flashbacks and outbursts and things like that, and that's affecting you Right, could be affecting you mentally, and so you need therapy yourself, right? The VA provides that, they provide that.
Speaker 1:So there's just several, and that's great to know. That's great to know as well, because sometimes you think you're out here on this ship by yourself and because you do need a mental health break, especially when people and there's different levels of care is different when someone's in the bed, and I'm responsive, or minimal responsive, as to someone always trying to get out of the bed, always trying to walk without their walk, or you know that's emotionally draining for the caregiver, uh huh, it is, yeah, but you know, because you're doing they're, they're moving quicker, faster than the patient, so that's good to know that they can receive some care as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, and then there's also these benefits called beneficiary travel benefits. So let's say you are taking your veteran, your husband, who's a veteran, to appointment after appointment, after appointment, after appointment, right, and people like forget about these little. They're not little things, they're huge when you're going through it, but like the class of gas, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:No, I never, I've never thought about that. But yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so the VA. They have benefits for that as well. So all this is all this is so you can call, you know the VA, you can stop by their offices, you can go online and, just you know, say I'm taking care of a veteran and you know I need help, and they will walk you through it. They will definitely walk you through it.
Speaker 1:You know, one of my family members not my personal family member when I speak of my family members, I'm speaking on my patient family she called me one day and she said they have a policy. I said well, what's the policy? You don't act, we won't take. I was not expecting that, as you can see, and I heard it but didn't hear it, you know. It had to kind of come back around and I was like wow. And she said you know, I'm sitting here waiting on people to direct me and tell me what I need to do. And you know, because I don't know. So you know you don't want to be too pushy. And she said but you know they won't tell me. So now they're telling me you know, I don't have to stay the whole day with him and he's getting this guy to the other. You know, I can get a free ride back. And she said I wish they had told me this two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:So it's things like that that means a lot to people, because loved ones do want to be around when their family having tests or different things of that nature. But she says you know, this is an all day thing. And they told me I don't have to be here Once I get in here. I could have gone all out and she said I just stayed there. So if you don't ask, they won't. Hi Whoa, what was me, you know? When we had this free, this conversation prior, when I reached down to you, you and I both agreed, I mean, and anyone else would as well. But if they haven't been through it, they don't know it. If they haven't worked in it or haven't been a part of their life, you don't know.
Speaker 1:And this topic is so expansive, I mean it's so very broad, so we're just trying to give the listener an overview of what is out here, what to look for, what to do.
Speaker 2:Right right yeah, and I would say if someone is listening and they're not a caregiver right now, I would say you know, be intentional or proactive in finding, or if you know a caregiver to help, you know I'll be with you.
Speaker 1:That's another reason I want to have this conversation, because it may not be your situation now, but at least now you can help yourself in the future or someone else you can pass this information on. It's not for you to forward, it's not for you to keep, it's for you to learn from and maybe you won't have to go through the waiting stages or the pitfalls that they don't ask. You know, if you don't ask, they don't tell. And don't? I always tell my patients and my family members. When you go to the doc, take a pack and a pencil before you go. You know write down your medications or have your list of medications with you and I know things are computer generated now. Take that with you to whichever physician you're going to. You know write down when you have this exam or when you have that test done, this procedure done. You know you're your best advocate Instead of then it's in the chart.
Speaker 1:I come here all the time, but if it's in the building A and we're in building C, you know sometimes there's a delay in getting that information. But if you have it on you then there will not be that much of a delay. And if there are questions that you have, I often tell them write your questions down. So when they come in the room, I don't care if you're inpatient, outpatient, whatever write your questions down. Don't sit up and talk about the ball game. Don't talk to the doctor about the ball game. When he comes in, it's okay to be provided if you want to ask him, has his family. But you are the patient, you're in need of care and you need to get answers for what is going on, what the expectation is, and that's if you have your list handy, your list of questions. Just make sure you go down that list. He doesn't mind answering your questions.
Speaker 1:He or she does not mind answering your questions, but they can't ask what you don't answer. I mean, they can't answer what you don't ask.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And if you don't think that you know you might have a diagnosis that's really a cancer diagnosis or something that's really emotionally draining, I use feel like you can't think thoroughly. You know, have someone with you. I agree.
Speaker 1:That's another thing I can tell you as well.
Speaker 2:Who can ask those questions, just like you were saying. So like you and I would go in as a patient and we have our paper and we would be ready, but everyone is not capable and so you need to bring someone with you, have them ask that question. And the other thing I'd like to say also is accessing the patient portal. Like I know, the older that we get or generations that are older are not necessarily you know on the computer or text us when I'm looking for it.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you. No, I'm not Text savvy. Yeah and so, but that's OK. Get your needs, get your deaf youth, get your whoever to pull up that information for you, because all your information is right there on the portal, right. It's a computer program that's connected to your doctor's office or to your hospital. That has all of your records, your medications, what they say about you, the whole thing, and sometimes you will have doctors or nurses or whoever's putting the notes in. They may have missed something because, depending on who that clinician is, you'll have a clinician who has a laptop with them as they're examining and they're putting all that stuff in, as is happening. Other clinicians may work to the end of the week to do all their notes.
Speaker 2:And they have forgotten half of what you said. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 2:I'm not no no, no, people are human, they are human, yeah, so you don't know which person you have like when they put their notes in, and so you need to be proactive and checking and making sure you at least say, oh, he never talked to me about that, or I remember asking him this and he didn't even mention this in the notes, and so you have the ability to respond. And again, if you don't feel tech savvy, get someone. We all have somebody else.
Speaker 1:Like I said, we all know who's around us and who can do what, so create your team and utilize them True that I had a cousin that worked for a government agency and our big thing is when we would talk and she was like ask her well, what about this 80-year-old grandma that doesn't have a computer? Well, she knows someone who does. I'm a black man.
Speaker 2:I guess that's that.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't an argument. I would go to her on a fact-finding mission, just like she would call me on a fact-finding mission, and we would go off into another realm of care and her thing was who cares for people when there's no one? And I was like there is someone, they have to appoint a conservator or they have to appoint a guardian, Because you do have that Haitian or that neighbor that has outlived all their relatives.
Speaker 1:That's true, I've seen it and it blows your mind to think about that, but it does have fun and you have to get legal involved. You definitely have to get legal, especially if they're in the hospital. We had to get legal involved and the will start turning from there and she was not on her deathbed. She was sick, but she was not on her deathbed. She got better, but at that point in time, that's where the conservator and the guardian comes in. Right, they can speak for her. There's so many caveats out here.
Speaker 2:There are. There are and we also. When we talk about other people helping, if you're someone trying to figure out how you can help someone, step in and do that Be their tech person or be their driver to appointments or be there, whatever it is. Step in Because, like you said, there are those 80-year-olds or 90-year-olds or other ones who don't have family anymore and they need the help. And if it's not going to be someone legal, it could be all these people out here trying to figure out how they can help someone. That's how you can help, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That is how you can help, especially not just helping yourself to put your name on their bank account, but you know.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:You should see the things I've had to break up in the hospital. But I'm, oh my, yeah, they bring it to me and you know that's definitely outside of my scope of practice what goes on outside, but they bring it to me and I'm on my will and sometimes even having that power. Paternity does not give you carte blanche to a lot of things, Because they would come to me and say the bank didn't recognize this and I was like I can't control the bank. I mean, I can't control that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad you bring that up Because I find often having to explain this to people that there are two sections of power of attorney. So one is medical power of attorney and one is financial power of attorney, and so a lot of times people are signing this medical power of attorney thinking it's going to handle everything and, like you said, it doesn't. So when they try to go to the bank or make sure that the Social Security check is going to the facility because mom now has to go into the facility they can do nothing with that medical power of attorney because they didn't sign the other section, which is the financial power of attorney. So that's something that they want to pay attention to.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And what about the dual Dual?
Speaker 2:And that's what that's dual. That's dual having both parts.
Speaker 1:Correct OK.
Speaker 2:And what?
Speaker 1:about a trust.
Speaker 2:Right Now I'm not an expert on that, but I do know that there are trust funds.
Speaker 1:If it's coming, I'm thinking that's all.
Speaker 2:Right. There are tools within the trust, within kind of a state tools where you can put your house, for example, in a trust. So now the trust owns the house. You don't own the house. So, when it comes to medicating, you're now applying for Medicaid for long term care. When they do the look back, that look back at, your asset isn't there, or your $50,000 isn't there, because it all is now in the trust, and so that's one of the things. Now I don't know exactly how that works. To be quite honest with you, I always send people to the financial experts for that, but I know that once you move things into a trust, then that means that you no longer have it, but your family members have access to it. Yeah, so it's definitely a tool that people use, even just in the world of real estate as well. Like, if someone is going to pass away, they don't have to. If it's in the trust, they don't have to go to probate court to try to fight over mama's house.
Speaker 1:No, it's not happening, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Well, nine times out of 10.
Speaker 2:There are some people who can be amicable, but those nine yeah, it gets so messy and I was fine as well that there's an extended especially in my experience with some people of color having, like these, extended family members, if you will, right.
Speaker 2:And so you already have the siblings having problems, right, yeah, trying to make decisions for mom or dad or grandma, right.
Speaker 2:But then you have these other influences of the cousin or second cousin, the third cousin and a few other. This and everybody's chiming in and sometimes it's hard to decipher because just because you have the title of nephew, let's say, your relationship may be more like a son to your aunt, right, because your aunt really raised you, true, and so we have a lot of that dynamic also. So it just gets really. I just say that if you have something like a living will, that's really going to break down everything for you in terms of what decisions you want made, who you're depending on who you want to make decisions for you health care proxies it's a simple way to do that as well, because there's times an adult child will come back and say I'm the child I make the decision, but meanwhile Denise is the one that was actually more of a daughter, absolutely. So, yeah, it just runs again. When we come to families, you have to be very specific about what's going on in your family, to do the right thing in terms of caregiving and patient advocacy.
Speaker 1:And that is so very true. I ran into, well, the situation ran into me where the friends brought the patient in and I was just forced to receive the information from the friends. But when we found the family members appeared by virtue of HIPAA, we could not speak to the friends again and it is heartbreaking. We're like family, we're like brothers, we're the ones who brought. I'd get all of that. I promise you I do, but now that Nextapen has shown up, I can't. They can talk to you, but I can't anymore. It's because of the Privacy Act, and they understood, but I'm brokenhearted because I wouldn't have received all the information I had if it had not been for them. But then to have to shut them off like that. But it has to happen, it has to happen. It's nothing that you want to do, but it just has to be done, right.
Speaker 2:And so that's the federal state laws under HIPAA. But I mean it can be contested in cases of extreme neglect. I guess you would say Absolutely it can be contested in court. If someone is really like an adult child, is really abusive or something to that effect and there's a really close family member. If you have evidence, et cetera, et cetera, then a judge in usually probate can grant guardianship to someone other than the next can, if there's enough evidence. Yeah absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, Carol, can you stay up to date on these policies and regulations?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm part of everybody's newsletters, from the government to advocacy groups, to everything, and I'm constantly taking classes and certification classes, et cetera. So I literally wake up every morning and spend an hour or two, just before I get my day started, just reading these alerts that I get about a new policy, about what the VA is doing, because I'm on their email list and I'm just constantly reading and learning and taking courses to keep up the date on everything. And then, because of my work, I have to research something and so then, as I'm researching, I'm learning more as well. So it's just an ongoing learn fast for me and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:And it shows. It definitely shows. And when you have a passion for something, it's not like work. You build on what you already know, you build on your base and you can share and put that information out. There's a senior living book that they gave us. We've had a bill that we could get from the hospital and I would give those out to families when they had a lot of questions, and I always kept one for myself and now I need one. So I think I'll have to go to the hospital and find it, because I haven't been in the hospital in a while, in several years now. But that doesn't stop and I'm OK with people asking me questions Honestly. I am thankful that they feel confident enough to do that and I will let them know where my knowledge stops and where they need to find some knowledge. You know someone who's more knowledgeable than myself and seek that information. So you know, once we are out here to family and friends, we're forever out here to them.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to be the go-to person and, like I said, honestly I do not mind. Honestly I don't, because when people are reaching out to you, they want the help, they do they? Want what you say. You know the results of what you're saying, but they know you can't control the results. But they want the information and I'm willing to get it and I you know.
Speaker 2:I also want to mention before we end that I really appreciate it at the beginning I'm not sure if that part recorded or not that you opened with prayer and I just want to talk about how important that is, and you know I'm not advocating for any one religion, but I'm saying that there is a higher being and how important that acknowledgement is in patient advocacy and caregiving. I know, as a board certified patient advocate, you know we are actually tasked with making sure that we are learning the importance of spirituality and prayer and understanding different cultures and religions etc. So that we can respect it and include it as necessary. And there are literally scientific studies that talk about the effectiveness of prayer when it comes to healing etc. Yeah, yeah, and so I just want to say how important that is in the journey as people are going through, you know, illnesses and healing etc. And I want to thank you for including that in your podcast.
Speaker 1:That is my background. You know I'm not going, I'm not someone to throw the Bible at you, but that is. I grew up from the Baptist. I have been in church, you know, basically all of my life that has been the glue that has kept me the stability you need. And when I first got my first nursing job, I was an LPN for five years and even after I became an RN, every day, as I drove to work, my prayer was to be alert to my patients' needs. I didn't want to bring anyone any harm, I just want to bring them help and be alert and astute enough to catch any changes that they had and that I could, you know, give that to the physician, because we are here to help and not to hurt. And I did that every day going to work every day. And I will confess, when I started working on the phone, I'm like, well, you know, okay, lord, okay, lord, I thank you, I'm not good, I don't need you. I thank you, but the needs of the patients that come through the phone do not change.
Speaker 1:So, you have to have that base, that support to help you to do the job that you do. And you are correct, there are scientific studies that speak to that your spirituality, you know you have to have a sense of purpose. You have to have a sense of purpose and I have worked with physicians that have told me I was told the patient you know, I'm just a vessel God is doing the surgery and I like that. I absolutely love that, that they're humble enough. I've seen them pray with their patients before surgery. So you know that kind of helps strengthen you as well that you're not in this fight alone of praying with your praying for your patient.
Speaker 1:And I don't know I like they said keep one in your pocket because someone pulled the time I walked into one of my units, this lady ran out and just grabbed me come in here, pray for him right, quick. And I'm like right now. And I was like well, what's going on? And she said he just don't look good. And she was. She was the daughter, you know, but it just lets you know you never grow old when it comes to being a child and your parent. And so I did. I said a quick prayer for her strength and whatever was going on with them. They just walked in the door, you know. So that is my foundation, that is my basis and I just, I just continue to thank God for it, because you have to have that with what we run into mentally Well being healthcare providers and, you know, working with patients and families you need it, you really just, you just need it.
Speaker 1:You definitely do.
Speaker 2:And I thank you for that.
Speaker 1:I thank you for that and I don't think it did get recorded. But we're going to close in prayer as well, Because you want to be alert and astute enough to continue to speak to families and friends, family members, friends, whoever is calling out for our assistance, and you may have to repeat it three or four times Not to prayer, but the information that you give them, because they're so overwhelmed they cannot hear Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yes, yeah they cannot hear.
Speaker 1:So thank you for that, Thank you for that. Thank you for that, but I do appreciate that. Now, do you have any closing remarks? Any closing remarks? Any additional closing remarks?
Speaker 2:I would just say I mean it is I'm not sure if we mentioned this, but it is National Family Caregiver Month, and so I would encourage whether you're a caregiver or you know a caregiver, I would encourage you to support either get the support you need or support someone who is caring for someone. Often it's a silent struggle and people smile and say you know, I'm fine, we're good, I'm fine, we're good, but they need help, they need support, and so if you know someone, you know, figure out a way to help them and if you are a caregiver, go ahead and reach out for that support that you need.
Speaker 1:And that is true, that is very true. Don't keep that, because they, if you don't say, they won't tell you Right.
Speaker 1:They won't tell you know. So you do have to let people know. You don't have to carry that burden by yourself. You don't have to. You don't have to be the epitome of strength. You don't have to always be it's okay. It's okay to cry, it's okay to walk away, it's okay to take a breath. It's okay, because I tell people often times, because you know you always have that person. Oh, if I was them I'd do this. If I was them, I'd do this.
Speaker 1:What do you think? I never criticized the caregiver because I'm not there, I'm not in their shoes. They're doing the best they can and I leave right there. I leave it right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good practice to have, that's for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, because we can all fit in that in the peanut gallery and just what we would do, and I know some of these people and they would not. I'm glad you mentioned caregiver mom. I was aware of it, honestly I was, but it keeps slipping out. You know, because I guess, because we have a month for everything now, just about anything, you know, not to not, not to, not to speak anything negative on anyone. How else would you get the recognition if it's not?
Speaker 1:out here, yeah, and caregivers do need to be recognized, absolutely, they recognize and, carol, I thank you so much for your time and your attention. Of your knowledge. How can people reach?
Speaker 2:you, you can reach me. I'm on Facebook and Instagram probably more Instagram than Facebook and I also have a website that's Campbell caregiver coach calm, so they can reach me there. And then also I have a. My nonprofit organization is leave light on dot org leave the light on dot org so they can reach me any of those places, and I would also encourage people if they just want some nuggets of coaching without having to leave their home or call someone you can tune into my podcast, which is Carol Campbell coaching caregivers with music, and so it's not actually music. What it is is like give various information or kind of coaching caregivers through certain subjects and then they take a little breaks with music. So the last last episode, I did most of it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I'm just a little bit more, if you will.
Speaker 2:So, like my last episode that I record, it was about calling your A team, and when I say a team I mean your alpha, your angels, your ancestors and your advocates, and so it's more of a spiritual type of episode where I talk about the need of prayer, etc. And then I'll take a break and then in the break I featured BB and CC linens, right. So like talked about, like, the, your alpha, whoever you call your alpha, right, we talked about that. Then I take a break with one of their songs and then we talk about angels and how it's listed in all holy books. You know the presence of angels. Take another break with BB and CC linens.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like a radio show where you, you know, you talk, and then you have music, and then you talk and you have music. It's like that. But yeah, so I've covered topics like how to you know the things you need to do if you're caring for a difficult loved one, right, or a very independent loved one, or children. That are another episode where about children who are living in the house with you as you're caring for someone who's very sick, right, what you need to do for those children. And with that episode I used the Jackson Five for my musical breaks, so it's fun. It's a fun way to kind of break up sometimes a conversation that could be a little draining. You know, kind of break it up with a little music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and be the light. Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so leave the light on foundation. So the name of it is because you know, when we were growing up my brother, sister and I, you know our parents would always say leave that outside light on right.
Speaker 2:If we were coming back lately. Leave it late on, did you leave a light on? It was just constant, you know. Or leave the inside light on, so it looked like somebody's home, you know. So it was like a constant phrase in our home. And when my mom got ill, one of the respite things that I did was take an art course and I painted the house that we grew up in and I named the painting leave the light on, so it just stuck. So after she passed away and I thought about that, you know that one of the things that stuck with me was that 100 day I talked about.
Speaker 2:you know not knowing what that meant. Yeah, and we say, how do people figure this out? How do people know this? And I say you know what? I talked to my sister, my brother and I was like you know what? We need to start some type of foundation or something to help people with the basics. And so that's what we did and the end of 2010 started this foundation and so basically just giving people information about caregiving and we also help.
Speaker 2:We get funding to help people with utility bills, kind of like literally leaving their lights on right Absolutely. And then we've done a series of events where we either like if we had pampering days, where we bring in massage therapists and estheticians and manicure, pedicure technicians to just pamper, you know, caregivers for a day, and we've had other dinners where we would honor caregivers for their work, for what they've done for family members, and so I kind of, you know, slowed down during the pandemic, obviously, so we're in a process of kind of getting that started back up again. But yeah, so that's what we do is leave the light on foundation and my work is with coaching and advocacy. You know, I kind of do one on one so people can contact me if they want to work with me in that realm and if you need some help from our foundation, you can contact me with that. Leave the light on dot org as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, thank you for that and I apologize for calling it be the light, but you have been a light because you have enlightened up, you know, and you know knowledge truly is power. So I do appreciate you again and I did want to you to speak regarding your podcast that you intertwined with music, because music is soothing. It can be very, very soothing and sometimes it's a little bit wild. We forget about the little things in life that can bring us down.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, just putting on that music and just moving around a little bit can do it, it can it really, really can, and I think that's where walking, when things get.
Speaker 1:You know, I try to walk often and sometimes I walk out of frustration and sometimes I walk out of need, but when I go back I feel better because any of it can be stressful. Any of it can be stressed, like life can bring you stressors. But thank you so much for being a part of Gentry's journey and thank you for giving us your time and your talent. With the leave the light on, you truly have been the light for me today and I do appreciate that. And you're more than welcome. And if nothing else is said, then I will close in prayer. Lord, for those who are caregivers to friends and family, may they feel your love and your sustaining power, may they feel less frustrated and experience less guilt for just being human. Lord, we thank you, we thank you for opportunities, we thank you for Carol, we thank you for all the caregivers. That's out there.
Speaker 1:Families in France are standing in the need of some support. Lord, these and other things were actually your son, jesus name. Amen, amen, okay, well, we're going to close right there, unless you have something else, and I really thank you for having me. Oh, you're more than welcome. You're absolutely more than welcome, and you have a good rest of the evening. Okay, okay, you too.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you, bye, bye.