Ever wondered how the teachings of Jesus could shape a modern love story? Dr. Velma Bagby, with her profound wisdom rooted in Christian faith, joins us to share the deep connections between biblical principles and contemporary relationships. Her transition from a seasoned deputy administrator to a captivating author was sparked by intimate mother-daughter dialogues about the quest for a divinely matched partner. As we navigate through her book series, you'll discover an inventive look at dating, where fishy personalities are more than just a metaphor, and we unravel the scriptural bedrock that supports lasting love and devotion.
As you listen to our rich conversation, prepare to be intrigued by Dr. Bagby’s engaging narrative that turned her initial standalone novel into a must-read series. The appetite of her readers for more led to a kaleidoscope of stories where the behavioral patterns of fish mirror the complexities of human interactions, including the slippery slopes of narcissism and the quest for authenticity in relationships. Twin dynamics, Christian values, and personal anecdotes blend together, painting a vibrant picture of the search for love that aligns with one's faith. The upcoming book promises to stitch these themes into an even grander narrative, capturing the essence of our longing for genuine connections.
Our episode wraps with reflections on literature's portrayals of narcissistic women, the stark reality of manipulation, and the necessary wisdom in parenting. Dr. Velma’s insights shed light on the spiritual and emotional decluttering needed for healthy relationships, underpinned by a strong foundation of self-wholeness and pre-marriage counseling. We close with a passage from 1 Corinthians 13 that encapsulates love's true virtues, leaving you with a renewed perspective on love and life's relational journey through the art of storytelling.
Ever wondered how the teachings of Jesus could shape a modern love story? Dr. Velma Bagby, with her profound wisdom rooted in Christian faith, joins us to share the deep connections between biblical principles and contemporary relationships. Her transition from a seasoned deputy administrator to a captivating author was sparked by intimate mother-daughter dialogues about the quest for a divinely matched partner. As we navigate through her book series, you'll discover an inventive look at dating, where fishy personalities are more than just a metaphor, and we unravel the scriptural bedrock that supports lasting love and devotion.
As you listen to our rich conversation, prepare to be intrigued by Dr. Bagby’s engaging narrative that turned her initial standalone novel into a must-read series. The appetite of her readers for more led to a kaleidoscope of stories where the behavioral patterns of fish mirror the complexities of human interactions, including the slippery slopes of narcissism and the quest for authenticity in relationships. Twin dynamics, Christian values, and personal anecdotes blend together, painting a vibrant picture of the search for love that aligns with one's faith. The upcoming book promises to stitch these themes into an even grander narrative, capturing the essence of our longing for genuine connections.
Our episode wraps with reflections on literature's portrayals of narcissistic women, the stark reality of manipulation, and the necessary wisdom in parenting. Dr. Velma’s insights shed light on the spiritual and emotional decluttering needed for healthy relationships, underpinned by a strong foundation of self-wholeness and pre-marriage counseling. We close with a passage from 1 Corinthians 13 that encapsulates love's true virtues, leaving you with a renewed perspective on love and life's relational journey through the art of storytelling.
He who dwells in the secret place of the most high dark channel of his way, when he dwells in the secret place of the most high dark channel, he shall be under the shadow of his ways. I'll say of the Lord, here's my refuge. I'll say of the Lord, here's my strength, and I'll be the one to show that I will make no one want. Don't say she'll come near my dwelling place. I dwell in the secret place. I dwell in the secret place, I dwell. I dwell in the secret place of the Almighty. I dwell in the secret place.
Speaker 3:I dwell, I dwell, I dwell.
Speaker 2:Can you hear me okay?
Speaker 3:I can Thank you very much, wonderful, wonderful, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me on your show. Thank you for being a part and accepting invitation.
Speaker 3:I do appreciate it and I think we have some guests. And hello to you all as well. I appreciate it and are you ready to get started, Dr?
Speaker 2:Bama, I'm ready when you are. You are in charge and I'm here to join you, so lead the way.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I do have a versatile. We're going to be talking about the wrong kids, right? Whatever you say, okay? So here we go. Husbands, love your wife, and it comes from Ephesians 525. And teach the young women to love their husband. That comes from Titus 2 and 4. So, dr Bailman, you have this incredible series of dating that's going to be on the show for the purpose of being married. So tell me about yourself and how you got started with this journey of these beautiful novelture books.
Speaker 2:Thank, you so much for the question, carolyn. I began after retirement. I worked for the state government as a deputy administrator for 38 years with them and retired in 2012. And just at that time my daughters, who were both adults at the time, were interested in having a deep kind of a deep dive concerning men and marriage and challenges and all of the above, and I began having those conversations. But I had to first make sure I went back and study the scriptures myself, because I knew that both of them were registered nurses and I couldn't just throw any scripture in the same old ones that we used all the time with these two. So I made sure I did a deep, deep dive and really dug a little deeper into the scriptures concerning God's plan for marriage and relationships. And so from there we began having conversations. We had to agree to be open and honest. I had to listen to some things I didn't know about, but without shock or without any kind of reaction, because we had agreed to have open and honest conversations. And as a result of that, as I began to share what I discovered in the scriptures, they began sharing what I told them and shared with them, with friends. Those friends wanted to know more and, as a result, my daughters saw a need for this kind of conversation and, as a result, I wrote my first book based on those conversations and it's called your Adam is a Sleep Until God Opens His Eyes. And so that was in the subtitles of conversations between a mother and her daughters about men. So that was my first time doing that. It was not my intention to retire and then start working again, basically, but it was God's plan, because he doesn't bless you with what you've been given and not give you an opportunity to share with other people. So my marriage in two months, 50 years together with my husband, the conversations I had with my daughter, and what I learned my daughters and what I learned along the way all of that was intended for me to share with other people.
Speaker 2:Now, after that first book took off and really I didn't release it until I got a chance to test out some of the topics I talked about in the book at local churches, as I was invited out, I began talking about some of the things I had in that book and I saw those young adults run to the front of the church with their phones to hit record so they can record what I was saying and that validated that it was necessary for me to continue this journey.
Speaker 2:What I had to discover over time was how best to approach the topic, because it's so discombobulated out there in the area of discovering the make God has for you that I wanted to determine if I was in the right genre.
Speaker 2:And that's when I discovered the idea of how Jesus was a master storyteller, in the way in which he weaved those parables and how he did it in a way when he was talking to individuals where he didn't come across as judgmental or as someone who was bringing down the heavy hammer. He did it in a way that allowed the person to discover themselves in the story he was telling, and then he provided them tools or tips on where to escape or a way to change, and at the end of his stories he simply just left the person make the decision in terms of whether or not they wanted to change. And that's what I fell in love with and that's what I began with with one book. That's all I thought. I was writing One Christian contemporary fiction book using that style and as a result, it's now a series because of what the readers said they enjoyed about it, that's wonderful.
Speaker 3:We don't always pick our assignments, do we?
Speaker 2:No, not always.
Speaker 3:We don't always pick our assignments, but since I first heard you read on Clubhouse, I was just so mesmerized. How can someone else come up and read that type of tale or those type of analogies and they be so real and they touch everyone, everyone who hears them, male or female? And so I was like wow.
Speaker 3:And those were the fish analogies. With the first one I heard OK, ok, and it was just. I was like man, talk about talent, talk about talent. It was just marvelous to hear how you named a different fish, you described a different fish, you told us about them and how they eat, how they live, and it was so, it was just so perfect for the way you came up with those fish analogies. I think everybody can relate, whether you fish or not. You can relate, yes, because I'm not a fisher, I don't fish. But it made me think, it made me picture. I could just picture the fish, the way you described them and gave us the details of them and how things were going on. So what brought about the fish analogies?
Speaker 2:Well, again, going back to the parables, that's one of the things that Jesus used in his analogy. But I just thought in terms of fish, because if I was going to use analogies, what would I use? And I thought about the fish and the first thing I did was called the best expert I knew that's been an expert at fishing all his life and that's my oldest brother and called him and I just simply said you know, tell me about your favorite fish. How do you catch them, what bait do you use, what time of day, where in the lake, where do you go?
Speaker 2:And as he began to describe, for instance, many of the women, if you mentioned catfish, everybody knows a catfish is a bottom feeder, so they already know that about the catfish. So, as he began to describe each of the fish and those are the fish I use, the only one I he didn't mention was the puffer fish. I did research on that one, but all the other fish I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. As he described the fish, the personality of the fish, how to catch them, where they like to hang out, what they like to eat, what they do during the day, all of that, I could picture the character that matched that particular fish, as he was telling me.
Speaker 3:You know that, um, I can say, we don't choose our assignments, so was that your first one. Was that your first book in your series?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that was the very first one, and remember I thought that was one novel I was writing at the time. One and done, yeah.
Speaker 3:That was only one and done that's it Okay. So what brought about the second one?
Speaker 2:The readers. The readers said, oh, we need more of these. Many of the interviewers who interviewed me on their podcast said now, where was this book? When I dated, all the fish in this book, all of these fish characters I've met, or other people who said I married someone like this particular fish and I made a mistake and got out of the marriage. Had I had this book I would know what to look for. And so it was the readers who really, uh, encouraged me to write that second again. I thought it was like you said a one and done.
Speaker 2:I had no idea I was going back to continue the fish analogies in that second book. I decided to take a different approach because it was uh, the father figure decided to present a workshop because more women in the story wanted to hear what he used in his stories with his own daughter, pastor Grayson. And then I decided to add something else to it and um had a conversation with my nephew, who's a twin. I have a brother that has two sets of twins. Those twins are almost 50 years old or will be 50 years old this year, and I asked him I wanted to include a some fish, a couple of stories that related to twins and sort of had a kind of a deep dive with him on what was it like growing up. Is it true that twins really can sense what the other is feeling? I mean, we had a really long conversation about all of that and from there created one of the stories based on twins.
Speaker 2:These were fish in the story and book two and how they dated the same women. The women didn't know they were dating two different men because they looked alike in the story. So I took what my nephew gave me and said about their abilities to sense what the other is feeling, all of that and included that in the book and how women just don't pay attention to things and details. But so they dated these two guys and it was the same. They thought they were dating one guy and didn't realize they were dating two.
Speaker 3:Well, how did they even know they were dating real life? And a girl in here Did it in. I'm asking did it or did not?
Speaker 2:Well, there was. I don't want to do a spoiler, but there was a change. One of the twins had a change, and so that's all I can say about that.
Speaker 3:That's fine. That's fine, you know, because I think in all of our minds I love watching not necessary crime shows, crime dramas such as FBU and law and order and things of that nature, and I have every says, ooh, I'm dating myself, streets of San Francisco, you know, but I love all that yeah so do I, my husband.
Speaker 2:that's our favorite thing to do is we binge watch some of the old shows, older versions of law and order. We really enjoy that.
Speaker 3:I do, I do and I just asked my brother when I was a teenager because he was so brilliant when do they get these stories from, where do they get these plots? And he's like no, no, no let's just make them up.
Speaker 3:There's no way this has to come off somebody else's table, somebody else's bag or something we've seen before. So I was just wondering in your fiction we have to learn, because I'm going to write pictures as well. We have to learn from something. We have to learn from something in order to build our story, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's the second book. For those who would read the second book, all of the male characters in there are narcissistic men.
Speaker 2:So yeah we use the fish analogies, but every last one of them are narcissistic. So I deal with that kind of topic in that book concerning what women get so fatuated about, concerning these kind of characters, and then, moving forward in the book the new one that was released the wrong catch, she'll tear down the house. I deal with the four characters that are narcissistic women and I said sometimes we forget that it's not just the men, there are women that are narcissistic as well, and what are some of those traits for you to watch out for. So those were all important things for me to present.
Speaker 2:Book two dealt with fish that are considered the elitists of the elite, who are part of the multimillion dollar business, where fish, if you catch one, because they're so mighty and powerful, you catch one, you can win millions of dollars. So they're considered trophy fish. All four of the characters in that book are considered trophy and the reason I use them is because we focus our attention on too much of what the man has and what he looks like and not enough on what is the real characteristic of that person, what's in his heart really, and these trophy guys, they consider themselves to be just that, and so if you're considered to be the crown of a man. If you're considered to be that valuable, ruby, I talk about a lot. Where do you fit in the life of someone who already considers himself to be a trophy? So you can't both be in that position. And that was the whole idea of that book is presenting those stories so that women can see that and make sure that they're where.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, all right, that sounds great. I just enjoy them. I just do so. We talk a little bit about book one, book two, tell us about book three. I want the audience to really kind of see how you, we, dial this together.
Speaker 2:Well, book two was a conference for the women, because so many women asked Pastor Grayson about the things he talked to his daughter about, because of course, she had a success story at the end, and so women want to see successes as well. So he decided to present that. But then the men he had been meeting with groups of men, just having conversations with them all along, but then they approached him for a conference as well, so that he can address the wrong women to date. Now that book came about, or the whole idea that came about because my male readers there were men who read books one and two who asked when are you going to address the wrong women to date? Even my own husband, who has been working with men and mentoring men and ministering to men for a long time, watching those behaviors and those problems and challenges that they've gone through.
Speaker 2:So I decided to have a conversation with several godly men that I know to get their perspective on what are some of the challenges that you face in dating. And we're not talking about women outside of the church, we're talking about the ones that are inside. And so when they began to give me what they said, I talked to a nephew, I talked to several men, talked to my own husband, and when I got that input back concerning their challenges, that's how I was able to create these characters for the book Because, like you said, there's some element of truth in all of them that we need to pay attention to. And so, as a result, in response to them, I said, okay, I've always focused my attention on the women for a reason. I'm a woman, I've seen this for over 30 years, some of the challenges and problems that we face.
Speaker 2:But I said, okay, I'm going to pause and address what the men have asked me to address, and that's how this book was born based on my survey, talking with men, talking with my husband, and then creating the characters around what I found out. I didn't want to use fish again, because there are readers who really love those fish analogy, so and asked for me to bring that back. So I had to use something different, and so I came up with, based on my research, I came up with insects, I came up with animals and even a doll doll. So that's how I came up with those characters.
Speaker 3:Okay, Now tell us a little bit about how she may tear her house down.
Speaker 2:Well, the whole concept is based on Proverbs 14 and 1. That says a wise woman bills her house, but a foolish one tears it down. And when we look at what God says about a fool, there's lots of definitions about a fool. Even he breaks it down, sometimes specific to a male, specific to a female. He talks about a man would rather be on the rooftop, in the corner of the roof, than to be inside a house with an argumentative woman. I mean, there's so many examples he provides about a fool and so a fool is not like the definition we tend to place on a fool, like on April Fool's Day. He really gets. God really provides us with specific elements concerning a fool that I think I thought was beneficial for me to talk about, because if people would, both male and female, really take a closer look at what God says about a fool and who is a fool, that would be a wonderful guide for you, guide in terms of as you're dating and determining who would be the best mate for you. It gives you a glimpse of the things you need to be aware of so that you can avoid it. So he's already provided us with a blueprint. If we just pay attention to the blueprint, for instance, I mentioned the one that talks about an argumentative woman. If you're dating someone that's argumentative, that's a flag already. So why would you hang around with someone? Someone who's very arrogant? Already that's a red flag. Someone who hates turning away from something that's bad or evil? That's a red flag. Someone who likes hanging out with other fools? That's a red flag. So if a fool is sitting in his heart, there is no God, that's a red flag. So if we would just take our time to pay attention to what he says, we'll discover some things that we can use to help us to screen out a person that's not appropriate for us.
Speaker 2:And so in this book, I deal with at least four characters that address narcissistic characteristics of women. As well as other characters, I have the black widow spider, who kills her maid once she gets what she wants. So the story opens up with her maid at a funeral. Then there's the queen bee. We know the nature of a queen bee whose job is to just have the bees. She does not. There's always worker bees around to help her, but that's not the case in real life. So you can be a queen bee, but you won't have all the worker bees, that the bee actually has to help out.
Speaker 2:So this is the person that's in the book who doesn't mind birthing the children but doesn't lift a finger to care for any of them. Then you have the narc women, what I call the firefly, and then there's the vampire bat. And then there's people don't realize that the people pleaser is also narcissistic. People might assume that she's sweet and not and very given, but it is a narcissistic behavior, even being shy and reserved, because underneath it is manipulation, and we know manipulation is as the sin of witchcraft in scripture. And so that's her.
Speaker 2:Then there's the narc mother who wants to control her son's life. That's a reality there in many cases. And then there's the antelope, who's promiscuous and made several times a day with multiple men, but in this story she happens to be married, so let's find out about her. Then there's the hyena. People like the sound of the hyena, but they don't realize that the hyena is not laughing. It's the female who leads the entire clan and she's barking orders. So imagine being married to someone who's barking orders all the time. And then there's the church doll, but that's where I took a toy that used to be familiar in the church years ago in early, early phases of the church, where women used to make a doll out of a handkerchief and that handkerchief.
Speaker 3:Some people say cheap. Yeah, I'm a big cheer, I mean yes, handkerchief.
Speaker 2:They used to take it and stuff the top of it with the center of it with tissue and make the head form a head, wrap something around it to form that head, put eyes on it, and that was the doll that some of the children would use, because they could leave it in the pocket of the of the pew and anytime the child is there they can play with that doll that's in the pew. But this, in this particular case, the church doll, is a woman who's abused by the church leader, and that's that the members of the church gave that particular person, because everybody was aware that the leader did this on a regular basis. So again, those were. These are the characters in the book We'll see.
Speaker 3:Now let's just touch on a topic or two. Uh huh, I was dating someone many years ago and he had company over and we were just watching television and they got into this discussion. There's this discussion. So when the gentleman left, I said no, I know you have more sense than what you displayed with this guy. He's truly a fool. But when you're going back trying to change him, I had to wonder who was the fool in there, you know.
Speaker 3:So we can get trapped into some brain when we're trying to educate or give our opinion. Sometimes you just have to let people be. I said you can't change everybody. You can't make them think the way that you want them to think. Yes, when he said it was nutty of the fruit cake, it was nutty, nutty, nutty. And I was like I just thought I was hoping you would just stop and I couldn't get close enough to you to pinch you and let you know he's dumping too much and you're going right along with him so we can get pulled into situations that really aren't really us. You know, but you don't know how that's going to turn and I was like, well, just let me stay out of it, let me just go, you know, because it's just it gets to be too much, because then you're wondering who really is the fool in this situation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely that's true, and some people is designed for them to go through what they go through because they want to.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. And my best friend and I had this conversation the other day regarding manipulation and I said, well, you don't have to manipulate someone. You know that witchcraft, I call it Buddha. As you know that Buddha, I don't believe in it. I said, girl, you better get your Bible. You better get your Bible. The Bible talks about sorcery and witchcraft. God is the harbinger, I found out. God is the harbinger. That's not the point we're trying to make. That's not the point. The point is, if you have to manipulate someone, that is not of God, because God wants you a free will. God is a free will, god. You come to him because you want to Now, because my say well, if you love me, you'll do this. That's not it. That's a form of manipulation.
Speaker 3:And if they start with one, they're going to start off with something else and then you shouldn't even want that. Either one should not want that, you know, because I truly believe in seed time and harvest and see you. So they coming up again. So you know, just just be careful about that. I said but you know, read your Bible, just go through that concordia and then buy that one. So I can't reach for every other, but people still do what they want to do here on earth, right here, right now, and they think they're doing something good or they're getting over. They had their way. And when you really have it because when a person wakes up and buys that they've been manipulated there's no trust. You have broken some trust.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and then you bring that spirit into a marriage relationship where you want to have build a home on love and trust and all of that, and you've already discombobulated the whole idea just with your approach. In the beginning I was thinking about what you were saying concerning trying. As women, we do have the ability to be nurturers and I found so many women use that nurturing ability on a man and he's not even your husband that is not working for that out. He has to demonstrate that he's a worthy of you, and so sad to see so many women who don't value themselves better than that. And so many of the terminology that God used in his word has not changed, but we've changed it. It's still the same sin, it's still the same wrong approach, but we've decided to change. Remember when we, when it's shacking up, was shacking up and the scripture called it sin for an occasion, and then they changed it to there was another form. They called it shacking up and then they called it moving into each with each other. I'm trying to think of the term.
Speaker 3:I call it living together, Because that's just really. That was another term.
Speaker 2:It's still the same, but the original term was for an occasion I'm trying to say something.
Speaker 3:I'm trying, she just shacking up. I'm not shacking up, that's what it is. Oh yeah, cognition, cognition, but we keep changing.
Speaker 2:We keep changing titles of things, but God never changed the title of it. It's still the same that he meant in the very beginning, just like what you were talking about with the manipulation. We try to dress it up differently, but it's still the bottom line. It's still what God says. It is so it's that part.
Speaker 3:Now I have a neighbor and even though you know, when I was growing up kids stayed in their place and you know adults talk, but you know, I think girls are just a little bit more inquisitive. So if my ear heard something, it just heard something, that's all I'm saying. She pretended to be sick, to keep her husband at home and I was like that's the weirdest thing, you know.
Speaker 3:I mean I was immature but still that just did not seem right to me. All the other neighbors knew it, you know, but it wasn't really. It was whispered about and I was like, well, he's going to get tired of her playing and sick and still going to go. And he did. And I asked him, wow, and he would come at home. It just she didn't want to go on that day or between those hours or whatever, and she claimed to be sick and he just got proud of it and he was like OK, then I'll be back on a while. I hope you get to feel him better, because I could hear him as he walked out and got in his car. Yes, but that's a form of manipulation.
Speaker 2:And he was like Well, you know there was a similar story in the second book, where the woman had been cohabitating with this man for a while and finally convinced him after trying to get him to marry her over time, convinced him to marry her and his brother. This these were the twin guys His brother tried to tell him. He said why are you marrying her out? Because I'm tired of her asking Blah, blah, blah and a lot of these men who go into relationships like that. Their heart is not in it. So, yes, they're going to continue to look elsewhere because their heart was never in it. You just forced them into a situation and they're going to continue with it until they really find the one that they want, because it's the man that finds his wife. It doesn't matter how much you try to convince him to marry you, if he hasn't declared that himself, then you've taken that away and he's going to continue to look for that Because he's going to question whether or not there's something better for him out there, because he didn't get to choose.
Speaker 3:I agree, I totally agree with that. I cannot watch and it's nothing. Anybody who likes these shows, I'm not putting them down, it's just. You know. I like crime drama. I don't like the bachelor, the bachelorette, I don't care for those, because you're really still taking him choosing you out there. I mean, he's still choosing you, but do we have to be in a park? Do we all have to be there together?
Speaker 2:They're all doing what they can to get to the park, because if you hear what the one he chose said, the night they spent together, she knocked his socks off. That's what she said, when his heart was actually leaning towards that other woman.
Speaker 3:Oh, oh Wow.
Speaker 2:In the bachelorette.
Speaker 3:I didn't watch, I just can't.
Speaker 1:I was kidding, it's not against me, but no, no, you did the right thing. I see you.
Speaker 3:What I'm wrong is I'm not keeping an open mind.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And I miss things. But one position and I we were watching. We were watching television. No, the television was on as he was rounding Okay, it was like he was neglecting his patient and we were standing there and that's when, I think, the bachelorette was on, and so he looked at me. He thought he'd feel about that. I just, I understand dating and choosing, but I don't understand why I got to know that you're kissing 12 other women.
Speaker 2:I don't agree with that. You know what that says. That's the exact practice that we have today. That was, it's just on TV. Yeah, many of the situations. They have other women on the side. They're entertaining many in many cases, and so what you're saying, what you're showing, is the current dating practice does not have commitment in it at all, even if you might commit to someone at the end. You're really being forced to because you're in that show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, You're in the show, right. So he looked at me and he went. I agree with you totally. You know he said it's just something that reeks. That just doesn't seem right about this.
Speaker 2:I don't agree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't agree with that at all. And so the darkened hour light? Well, I guess it would just be me and you against the world.
Speaker 2:So we laugh. Well, that's, that's, wow, wow, that's really sad, isn't it? It is sad.
Speaker 3:You know and this has been on for a very long time, because I remember which housegirl I was working at when that happened and I was like, no, I can't get into that dog. And he said I can't either. And he said I said, but we, if it was up to you and I, there would be no ratings on the show. Okay, but we're probably in the minority, I am.
Speaker 2:I'm in your group because I didn't. I didn't watch the show. The only reason I tuned in was my curiosity about the golden bachelor. The whole concept of the show I disagree with. They purposely put you in the room with the man at the end, hoping that you guys will link up. I don't agree with any of that, because that's neither here nor there and trying to build a life with someone, and so that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:How do you really get to know someone and I don't know how long the show lasts I don't know if it's six weeks, 12 weeks or whatever when you're still your mind is bogged by these other other what be it men or women. And I remember following one show when it came to the end I think last two episodes and I read it in People Magazine that I don't know if they got married, but whatever, they didn't get married and they found out like a week after the show. They hated each other and they had to split the money.
Speaker 2:They had already split the money and they were like they were all nuts and all First of all, she was the woman that got out of the limo with a coat on and barely had nothing on underneath.
Speaker 3:She was that woman.
Speaker 2:She was that woman.
Speaker 3:She was that woman she had on like a bodysuit, like that was supposed to make it better. It was so inappropriate.
Speaker 2:And yet she's the one that went on and slept with them when they spent that one night together, whereas the other woman was more respectful, and so he seemed to have been drawn towards her the whole time. Oh, he's going to pick. My husband and I were both watching it and giving our narration about each scene, but he chose that other woman. He chose her. After that night she spent with them, and she revealed that she had knocked his socks off, and that told me then.
Speaker 3:That's what convinced him she wanted to win at all costs, at all costs, that's all.
Speaker 2:Yes, she lowered her standards to win a guy.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I guess the cameras may be on the lure for people and have them acting a little bit more out of character. I'm just putting myself out. I don't know this, but this is my thoughts on it. And then when you see your competition, you're going to kick it up or not. But it's what a man find at the white, he find a good thing, and I just don't know. I just don't know.
Speaker 2:But then he finds you and he wants to value you, sure.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Can you imagine that first argument they're going to have? Remember when I picked it was because you're on that show.
Speaker 2:Every last one of them, every last one of them going another date, they're going to ask them about that show. Sure, sure.
Speaker 3:You know. So I'm like, well, I don't know. You know I weren't getting on, and these shows which I thought would be the end of one, they're popping up more and more. So it lets you know how values and entertainment changes the scene.
Speaker 2:I don't go on for the month too.
Speaker 3:That's true, and this is a phrase I don't like. Oh, y'all look so good together. You all will make a good couple. You all need to leave these people alone. You're forcing them into a relationship and this isn't real life. This is not a problem. Yeah, they probably don't want to be it. Right, you know, that's my take on it, and so I'm like don't say that. Don't say that, because QT got nothing to do with a relationship and I know that's the best thing, but Q, I ain't got no relationship. No, we're not a couple, you know it has to be quality.
Speaker 2:Q can change at any time. That's a condition Q can change at any time.
Speaker 3:And it can slip.
Speaker 2:You could be the cute one and he's not. And at some point in his life, in the later years of his life, he's looking more seasoned and handsome, and then you turn and don't look just cute. So you can't count on that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:No, you really can, and you know it takes us back to the scripture the fly were faded, yep, you know, so, you know. We just need to be mindful. There needs to be core values that we can come together, I agree, I agree, it just needs to be core values. Now, okay, is that all you want to tell us about how she'll tell that house down?
Speaker 2:So she's ready, without revealing, without revealing too much. Yeah, and I don't want to reveal too much Remember that four letter word, f-o-o-l over 50 scriptures that talks about that four letter word that people need to become familiar with.
Speaker 3:And they do. They honestly do. I had the honor of being an art creator, so I'm not saying much either. That's why I'm dancing around, I'm not letting you do that talking, because I know it's your book. You, you know it's about you, your credit, you know what, the ideals that God has given you, you know your research to scripture. So it's your way, it is your way to tell it. And they say, okay, nobody tell it like I can tell it when God has done for me. You know, for how, no one can tell your story no better than you. You know, and I will not attempt to do it because you know, even though I read it, hey, it will be butchered. This is your story to tell.
Speaker 2:I appreciate anybody that read my rough, rough, rough, rough early draft because one we got a hold of it, she made me turn quite a few things around. I do want to say that I said that it was based on the scripture, proverbs 14 and 1, and because it's contemporary Christian fiction, I can't and could not use a lot of scriptures in it. So I'm hoping to include that in the new workbook that's coming. I pulled the workbook I had out there that was based on book one so that I can incorporate book one, two and three in the new workbook that's coming out. But just in essence, when we're talking about a foolish woman, here's my description. In this book, the pastor, pastor Grayson, provides the men at this conference an in-depth detail of foolish women who are ill-prepared, immoral, selfish, reckless, idle, hate wisdom, negligent, bad managers of money a waste, does evil, does not love God and brings ruin to the entire household.
Speaker 3:That's kind of one of my mom's favorite sayings A man can bring the money in the front door and a foolish woman can take it and throw it out the back. It took me forever to figure that out what she was really saying, because she was a housewife. My dad wanted her to be a housewife so that he wanted her to be hands-on and, as they call them now, stay-at-home moms. So she has evolved into oh, absolutely she was. She was a disciplinarian and she was a housekeeper. She still keeps her own home, praise God. So it just matters. And I've seen women who have been foolish, and I mean other mothers, other mothers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, I've seen them be foolish and you'd be like, hmm, something's different. But there were certain qualities they liked and they had and meant to have, but still the core of them was just a little bit different. You know, and you realize, as you grow up and start learning about life and matriculating through life, you see this, you see the differences. I'm not saying anyone's perfect, I'm not, especially, you know, my mom. We all have flaws, you know. But I will say that you know, she did a darn good job.
Speaker 2:That's wonderful.
Speaker 3:And you know, but it's and my dad, he just was the provider.
Speaker 2:Now, when he spoke.
Speaker 3:When he spoke everybody and he didn't get loud to speak. He didn't get loud to speak. I remember one time he called us all in the living room but I don't know if he had had a pre-conversation with my mom or not, but it was three of us at the time and he said if you go to jail for anything other than fight, you're going to be dead. I was like Lord, what done happened? So I said well, why fighting? You know, because my two brothers, they were quiet as miles. And he said I said, why fighting? And he said because at least you were trying to protect yourself. So we, he said, y'all can go now.
Speaker 3:So we went in the back room and we saw a high five in each other and I said, oh no, but we were not rowdy kids and I'm thankful for that. And so we were trying to figure out what happened. What made him stop his day, come in and tell us that? So we felt like it was something in the streets either. He had heard and it bothered him so bad he decided he'd been a. Nip this in the boot right here, right now.
Speaker 2:Protect his head.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. So I still think about that and I tell my children, I tell my nieces and nephews about that story and my brother acts like he has forgotten I don't know what. Anyway, I remember that. I'm like what do you remember? But you have to have boundaries, is what I'm coming to. You have to have boundaries in relationships and relationships that are about to start, and in marriage. If it goes that far, you have to have boundaries, and those were some of his bounding. That was one of his boundaries. So when you are dating for the purpose of marriage and you see these red flags like some of you have name, yeah, you need to move on. Because I did.
Speaker 3:I'm like okay, well, can I pick you up the most? No, I think I'm good. Right, what's going on? Nothing. I'm like you're arguing about male on a sandwich. I don't have time for it. Imagine if it was something really big out there Going back and forth with the server. None of that, none of that. I'm taking it all in. I say nothing. But I was like, when I get in this car and I get home, I'm done. You don't have to make a big issue out of it. You just have to use a little bit of wisdom. Then I get home and laugh about it. But no, that's not going to happen. Not at all. Now I know you've been on the circuit. Your paperback is out of the latest book, correct? Yeah, coming in. Okay, you want to tell us about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the wrong catch. She'll take down the house. Actually, I want to mention that the ebooks for all three books in the series are still discounted at 99 cents. If you enjoy reading your books that way, then it's discounted and it's available. The wrong catch paperback was just released. Before the end of the year 2023. It's available on Amazon. If you wish to order, I'm currently setting up the ability to order from my website any autographed copies that you would like to have. If you want to stay tuned and stay connected with me, you can reach me at drbelmabagbycom. That's my website address, but autographed copies of all my books will be available shortly.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's great. Now I know we have some people in the audience. Does anyone want to come up and ask Dr Bellmore any questions? Let's give them just a second, no problem. Dr Ardrianne, do you have any questions for Dr Bellmore?
Speaker 2:I see Ms.
Speaker 3:Queenie yeah, I'm headed to her now. And one guess Ms Queenie, do you have any questions for Dr Bellmore? Her mic is not loaded yet, so she's probably trying to get it.
Speaker 2:Right, no problem.
Speaker 3:But so what year did you write your first book, Dr Bellmore? It released in 2018. Okay, I was a writer.
Speaker 2:I retired in 2012, and it took me some time to put that book together because I was new to the. You know, to become an author, I had to really study some self-help books to really understand it, to understand the John was, understand the rules, all of that. So it took my time to make sure that I can get it right. And the very first book that I released, I used what's called a boutique publisher, because at the time I didn't know enough about the publishing world to release that book. Sure, I wanted to have somebody to do it for me so that that way I can learn from what they do. So I actually made payments to get my publishing package and that's how I released the first book. So I'm actually going to be re-releasing that very first book under my own name and publishing company, along with a workbook. So that's what I plan to do with that one.
Speaker 3:Oh, that sounds good. Now what is the boutique publishing? What is that again now?
Speaker 2:They have different names for them, but they are the publishing companies that you don't get a publishing deal with. You actually pay them to publish the book, and so at the time, I chose a package that I thought was a good package for me and I made payments and, matter of fact, I finished making my payments on towards that package before I finished the book. That's right. That's right, and the good stuff is that they don't want you to pay for a publisher, and I know that to be true now, but at the time I needed them to do that for me so that I can understand and learn the process.
Speaker 3:I agree with you. When you're writing or you decide to write, in my humble opinion, you know nothing, so you just write, you just write and you go with what you have been told, or what you've been told or say this is the best way to go, this is the best thing to do. But for some reason I felt like I needed another set of eyes. I mean, I was pleased with my work because it was mine. You know, someone else bought it other than me, so it was a published offer. So you just have to walk this thing through. It's one thing to write. It is another thing to get your book out there. That's true. Yeah, that's one thing to write, but it's another thing to get it out there. Well, miss Queenie has not found her mic, which is fine. Do you have any closing statements for me?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all I want to thank you. I know we had some challenges to get our little time together. So glad that we got a chance to connect. I really enjoyed being here with you. I loved your contribution, your comments and your questions. But I had a question. You called this Gentry's journey. Is there a reason for that?
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm like you. My book started out just to be one book. Some of the people who purchased why don't you leave us hanging? We need a second book. I left it hanging in case someone really wanted thought it was worthy, so I did a second one Then. The second one is the reentry of Gentry, the third one is Gentry's journey.
Speaker 3:It talks about her and how she's going to pull off this event and how everyone is pressuring her. So, in a good way, everything is meant to be well, but the journey that gets them there. So that's how I came up with that title. I was like so when you're writing, you're just writing in the moment, you're not thinking about what's going to happen 34 years down the road. So that's where the Gentry journey came from.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I love it. The only couple in comments. I'm glad you answered that question for me. I was curious. I appreciate you sharing that. The only closing comment I have is I just hope that, from some of the things I've heard from people who had an opportunity to read advanced copies, some said they cannot wait to get the e-books to share with some of their son's friends because they really need to hear and see what the men said in the book, and somebody was really impressed by that first chapter where he just didn't wait to get started with some of the topics and tips that men needed to be aware of.
Speaker 2:I, in everything we talked about, we both have seen some tragedies in relationships, whether they married the individual or whether or not it was just in a dating situation. I also saw a lot of it sitting side by side with my husband in pre-marriage counseling, looking at people expressed problems they were experiencing and understanding. As you looked at them, knowing that they were trying to marry the wrong person was the real problem. Just years of seeing those kind of issues over and over. Even in my own family I've had family members that had bad relationships as well. How do you establish a platform to really share some tips and some tools to help people make better choices was the reason I continue on this journey as a Christian contemporary fiction author and African-American Christian author, and that's how I came to this place that I'm in now with this third book and it looks like a couple more books are gonna be coming out as well. So I'm just really appreciative of the people who have read the books and have enjoyed the stories.
Speaker 2:But more than that, I remember giving one of my first books to a receptionist at my doctor's office who expressed a problem with a friend who was in a toxic relationship, gave her a book. She gave the book to the friend and when she read the story of the puffer fish in the book and the puffer fish is the type of fish that really fishermen don't fish for, but it's there it's very aggressive fish. It looks and it has been described as a fish that has human-like eyes and face, but if you agitate it it puffs up three times its size, with poisonous points coming out of its body. So it's not the type of fish you would attempt to eat.
Speaker 2:But it was good for the story and the character in the story to represent a toxic relationship when this woman read that story my friend told me. Well, at the receptionist's office, at the doctor's office, she told me that she read it and decided to leave the guy finally. So if something like that can happen or someone says I really appreciate these tips, I'm glad I didn't have this before, then that validates that what I have been given to do is being done. And I hope that is being done well at the level that God is pleased, because if it can change the mind of a person or arm a person or provide them with more tips and tools that they need in this very dangerous environment of dating, then I'm happy and I'm satisfied.
Speaker 3:And I am too. I just you know, where was your book when I needed it? I was like well, let me ask you this Since you and your husband counsel, and how do you effectively counsel someone who has been just hurt in a relationship Just hurt, I have heard, cannot be present.
Speaker 2:If you plan to discover the real person that God has for you, someone who will love you in the way that God has said for them to love you and I talk about the importance of laying aside every weight that's when you have to declutter your life of some of those past experience. And with the dating process we have in place and with our inability to go into sound, healthy relationships, so many people have experienced that. So many people have been hurt. And so what do you do with that? Because you're not ready for another relationship. It's just like a dog backed into a corner and injured very badly. Even if you're trying to come towards that dog with something that will help heal that hurt, it will lash out at you and try to bite you because it's hurt. And so it's the same with a person that has something hurtful in their past and they have not set it aside yet, because that's what you're gonna have to do in order to move forward. If not, you can be sent something or someone that's perfect for you, exactly what you would. You have been hoping God was in, but because you're so broken inside, you will harm that person, and my grandmother said that God will not give you a broken glass to cut your lip. But it works the same way with you if you're the broken glass trying to cut his lip, so you can't go into that relationship. Broken, you have to deal with what's broken you. You have to deal with that hurt and only God in time can help you.
Speaker 2:When I started my conversations with my daughters, there's one book that I use and I know my husband and I have used it and we referred it to people who were in that stage where they hoped to be married at one point. Everybody's single, we would tell them, you need the love is a choice workbook. It talks about not only boundaries, but it deals with, scripturally, what you can bring forward into your life if you don't go back and deal with those issues so that you can release yourself and let it go. And that's what it does Going all the way back to your relationships with your parents, moving forward to hurt and difficult challenges and relationships, and you deal with all of it. It walks you through that process.
Speaker 2:It even identifies codependency issues. Many of them are not related to drugs at all. It's related to how you love, how you love another person, and so it's important even in how you spend your money. It can be identified in how you spend money Whether or not you have a codependency issue. So I learned that and I gave up to my daughters, even before they met anyone that they were considering marrying, to make sure they went through their lives to do the decluttering, to get rid of the weight, so they can release those things and let it go, and so therefore opening up their heart to freely love someone when they came into their lives.
Speaker 3:Okay, and that is true, that is true, you can.
Speaker 2:That book is written by Christian psychologists. It's available on Amazon and I try to keep copies because I give them out to people when necessary. But get it for yourself. You don't need the book, just the workbook. It's called Love is a Choice and it addresses codependency issues in terms of how we love, and it deals with all the brokenness, the hurt, all of that, and that's part of the decluttering and getting rid of that before that person comes into your life.
Speaker 3:Okay, and that makes perfect sense, because if you're not willing and ready to receive, you won't get. Yeah, you have to heal, you have to heal. Yes, we do.
Speaker 2:You have to heal. You have to heal the very thing you want. You mess up. It's like the rotten apple and bowl of good apples. You put that rotten apple next to the bowl of good apples. What happens? Over time, the other apple starts getting a rotten spot.
Speaker 3:And you know, I had to see that one day a few years ago and I was like this is what they made about a one bad apple, what's all that holdable? And I saw it doing that and I threw them both out. I was like no, y'all gotta get up out of here, yeah. And I went to the gym and ran into a friend and he was hurting from a relationship and I just told him sometimes you gotta clear your head and clear the way before entering into another relationship.
Speaker 3:You gotta really one spoil apple will spoil the whole bunch and you might be the bunch, you might be that apple that's falling everything.
Speaker 3:So you want to be clear and he received that so well. He said thank you so much. It's so true, yeah, so God has a plan for it all. He has a plan for it all. Yes, he does. Okay, well, thank you so much for joining me on Gentry's Journey. I have truly enjoyed having you. Much success with the rest of the books that you plan on writing and in the process of writing one. Now, I am a fan, I'm a fan fellow. Aw, thank you, that's great. That's great. I'm excited and I have a great Thank you, I appreciate your help.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're more than welcome. You're more than welcome, so we're just gonna close with this. First grant is 13,. Four through seven. No, it's patient and kind. No, it's not maybe or both. It is not arrogant or rude. Good one, you have a great day, dr Bellmuth. Thank you again and we will be speaking, okay. Okay, you take care. Thank you you as well. Okay, bye, good-bye.