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Gentry's Journey
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Gentry's Journey
Resilience and Innovation: Dr. Kina Phillips' Journey from Combat Medic to Nursing Leader
Discover the remarkable story of Dr. Kina Phillips, a beacon of resilience and innovation in the world of nursing. From her days as a combat medic in Iraq to her influential role as an assistant nurse manager in a cardiovascular surgery unit, Kina’s journey is a compelling testament to the power of perseverance and mentorship. As we sit down with her, she opens up about the profound impact of her military service on her nursing career, emphasizing the critical importance of mentorship and teamwork in shaping future leaders in healthcare.
You'll learn how Kina embraced change and leadership development, even when self-doubt crept in, to find her unique path in executive leadership. Her involvement with the Alabama State Nursing Association highlights her commitment to using her voice to spark positive change. Kina’s strategic insights into the implementation of training programs for charge nurses, along with her innovative application of chaos theory, underscore her forward-thinking approach to managing leadership transitions in the healthcare sector.
Kina’s passion for fostering effective teamwork through transparent communication shines through as she shares strategies for cultivating respect and collaboration in healthcare settings. Her groundbreaking doctoral project on early screening for postpartum depression in new mothers reveals a deep commitment to improving maternal mental health outcomes. This episode promises a wealth of insights into the transformative power of open leadership and the essential role of every healthcare team member in delivering exceptional patient care.
Good evening everyone. This is Carolyn Coleman and welcome to Gentry's Journey. Our honored guest this evening is Dr Kena Phillips. We're going to start with a scripture. When a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. Proverbs 16 and 7. Kena is a nurse. She's a veteran. She's recently Dr Kena Phillips. She's worn many hats. I'm going to let Kena tell you about those.
Speaker 2:I did serve 10 years in the military as a combat veteran, combat medic, and it's similar to nursing. It's pretty much like a paramedic, but we have, it's a blend. You know, the military do on-the-job training. They're going to train you for whatever. I started as a medic. I was placed there with the ASVAB, taking a score making high, Didn't know what I wanted to do, but my recruiter pointed me in the right direction. So I did 10 years, served two years in Iraq.
Speaker 2:When I came home I decided to go to school and when they asked me, well, what do you want to specialize in? I said well, nursing. I've been doing nursing for a while. So on top of that, I have been a cardiac care nurse, ICU nurse. I have worked in a doctor office. I have worked in long-term care I have, but mostly in the hospital as an ICU nurse. My next adventure right now is I'm going to be assistant nurse manager in a cardiovascular surgery unit, because I really want to impact healthcare by empowering others. So that's been. My goal is to leave my legacy in healthcare.
Speaker 1:As we were reminiscing prior to us going live, I met you in the ICU. Setting Correct, how long had you been a nurse then? Because time flies, it does not seem like it's been that long.
Speaker 2:I knew you since I was a new grad nurse oh you were a new grad then, but I already had the background, you know, being in medicine, acute care but you was teaching and I was still new. Like I think I was a nurse for at that time as an RN, you were Maybe a year before. Then I was an LPM for like two years and you had helped guide me, you know I was. So you know learning the ICU experience, the different medications, how to think critically, you know you think you have critical thinking skills until you're in that ICU setting and you have to teach and you were.
Speaker 2:One of my inspirations is to teach is because I want to be back. Yeah, you know, I tell people like I'm in my last class again, my nurse educator and, um, the reason I wanted teachers. I've had great mentors, people, other people who took their wisdom and their experience important to me and I feel like I have excelled and I have grown and I have blossomed in these 10 years of being an RN because of people that poured into me and I want to give that to the others. Just bring people up.
Speaker 1:That's great. I think that's one reason I enjoy pouring into people, because when I was an LPN, I started off as an LPN as well, and I was an LPN for five years and I always said after I finished LPN school and I was going to work one year and, if I liked, I was going to start RN school. And that's exactly what I did start RN school and that's exactly what I did. But I had so many people who believed in me and who poured into me in the clinical setting, teaching me, taking the time. They never asked me to do anything they would not do, and that impressed me as well. So I'm like I want to be an RN, just like that. I want to be able to lead people into the field and allow them to enjoy their role. Now, you would know as well as I do, nursing school will weed you in or weed you out, right, you know, I think some people and it's a wonderful field, but there are some people who, once they get into the clinical part of things, they realize this is not for me, and that's when they make their exit. And it's fine, because everything is not for everyone. But that is how. And I still like to teach and train because someone took the time to teach and train me. So I'm playing it forward, or I continue to play it forward, because if it wasn't for them, I don't think I would enjoy it as much.
Speaker 1:We did team nursing. Whether we were so-called team nursing, as it is supposed to be, we all work together. That's what I mean by team nursing. Whether we were on the same team or not, every patient was all of our patients, so I love that about it. Now you told us about your military skills and how that kind of led you into nursing once you came out and would you consider yourself tenured because you did 10 years in the military. How does that work?
Speaker 2:Well, I am considered a veteran, yeah, because I served. I was in a combat zone, so you can say tenure. I did not retire, I did not have time. I did work at the VA. I love working with veterans and understanding the post-traumatic stress disorder, how to adapt back into civilian life, having a purpose, so you know. But being a veteran has you know to me, where I have had gained my experience is by living in different walks and to be understanding, because at any time you can have a veteran for a patient, whether they're at the VA or they're at Birmingham, UAB or St Vincent's East or UAB West. There's 1% of the population has served the country, but everybody doesn't seek care at the VA. So you still have to know how to take care of people and how to talk to people appropriately to get the results that you want. You know, and that's one of the things of nursing is meeting people where they are being present, there, you know, to get the outcome that you would like to see.
Speaker 1:I agree with you. Once I became a case manager inpatient case manager after you introduce yourself, get a little background off from your patients or their family members and the wife or the daughters will say, oh, you know, he's a veteran. I was like, oh, you are. Oh yeah. I said, well, why don't you go to the local VA? Are you affiliated? I don't want to go over there. And I said they would love to have you. I said, not that I'm trying to push you out, but that's a thought I said because they love taking care of their vets. You can still see your personal primary physician and go to the VA at the same time. And they were like, oh, I didn't know't know.
Speaker 2:so I, after a couple of years, I was like they don't know their benefits right or even that like um, you know, I went into long-term care and the VA. When you have to go to long-term care or be in rehab, they provide some of the best services and offer as far as insurance and taking care of you and making sure you have what you need when you come home. And a lot of veterans I've had I'm talking to somebody like I don't have health insurance and I can't get rehab and I can't get this equipment. I was like or did you go through the va, which is called optimal? If you go through the va system, you you can get that rehab and it's no cost to you at the patient. There's no co-pays you know I've seen them pay before they come home. What equipment do they need? They have it in two to three days and the medicine is at the door to make sure that you know you're getting everything that you need.
Speaker 2:And not every health insurance company can say that, but if you have served your country, I do believe, and what I have seen is that the va, being a veteran, has, they try to do above and beyond and make sure that your needs are met so that we don't have, you know, so many homeless people um, a lot of times the va patients they don't. They don't know what benefits they set up with a house. They can set you up with a job for a year or two and they try to get you on your feet so you can actually go into society and be productive. But when you don't know it's there, it's not a benefit until you use it, it's just a feature of the VA until you use it. So I do think that that's something that needs to be promoted. More is what can be used for the people that have served their country.
Speaker 1:I agree with you because when I'm talking to relatives or friends, I don't know how we get on the subject and they say, oh well, I'm a veteran. I said oh well, do you go to the VA? No, I said do you know your benefits? No, I said oh well, do you go to the VA? No, I said do you know your benefits? No, I said you need to get established with the VA and you need to learn your benefits. And they were like how will I do that? I said first of all, you need to make a phone call and make an appointment and see if that's going to work for you. But if you don't know what you have, then you definitely can't use it. I said but there are benefits.
Speaker 1:I have seen where one of the wives told me do you know, we pay over $600 a month for his medicine. I did with several years ago because I can only imagine what it is now. I said well, you know, if you went to the VA, I think it would be little or nothing. And she looked at him. I was like don't blame him. And she said are you kidding me? I said no, I mean, I see, and they're not going to insist that you come to them and they will still let you have your primary care physician and your other physicians, but you need to establish a relationship with the VA and see them at least twice a year. That's because they want to care for you, and he was like I had no idea, thus going back to they don't. They're not aware of their benefits, but see.
Speaker 2:I also think it's like the same dilemma with Black people in healthcare. I also think it's like the same dilemma with black people in health care. We once we get a stigma and the VA has a stigma. That's not positive, but that stigma is about 20 years old, or 30, since Vietnam. This is not current 2024. You know, I mean so.
Speaker 2:It's harder to be when they had a stigma from the First World War, but the VA didn't have as many rights. The services was poor. It was hard to be seen. Right now, they have reformed the health care so much, but we can't beat the stigma of it. Oh, it's going to take two years to get an appointment. It doesn't any longer. It's still a wait sometimes, but it's not a two-year wait.
Speaker 2:Sure, they also open up. Like you said, you can go to your primary care physician, your medicine, you can get your medicine. They made it to your house if you don't want to come in All the equipment. I've seen them where, if you need disability, like the ramps, they will build you a ramp for your house. They will give you an electric wheelchair. How fancy you want it, they gonna. You know, I have just seen the better services when people are actually using it, using it correctly, supreme services, and they don't say you know, like, like probably the stigma was they did years ago. But it's all about really connecting, like you said, establishing care and finding out for yourself and not going. I heard you not know. Why don't you go see? You know absolutely. How don't you?
Speaker 1:go find out, and I don't know why word on the street is more for lack of a better term more positive than you going and finding out for yourself. I call it street justice. You need to stop listening to this street justice, and this is not just with the VA, this is with everything. Well, a friend of mine told me no, no, we're not going to do that today. I want you to call your health, you know, your insurance provider, no matter who it is, and I want you to ask specific questions, because the street justice will mess you up each and every time. Right, you know, and they will. Are you are you sure? I can't guarantee you any answers, but I can guarantee you'll get a better answer than what you have.
Speaker 1:Your situation may be totally different from their situation, so please don't compare the two. And, like I said, this is with a commercial insurance or a VA, it doesn't matter. Knowledge really is power, right, and you can't expect people to come on your. They don't have enough employees to come knocking at everybody's door, asking them if they're a vet and if they are service connected or, if they are, you know, are you getting your benefit? They don't have that type of resources. But once you open the door, step in, start doing your paperwork, then you are connected. Doing your paperwork, then you are connected.
Speaker 1:It's just so many facets of military service time, war time, peace time. You know all of that goes into it. I don't know about it, but I hear that from people who serve vets at other facilities. Okay, so so it it. We just want you to know that you're not alone. Right, you're not alone. So, um, I think that would be a good step for vets to take. You know, the diapers, just whatever you need, they will basically supply Correct At any time. You will get that. Now let's get back to nursing and your latest accomplishment. Tell me about Keena Phillips, the doctor, and when all of that took place, because I'm very, very proud of you for that.
Speaker 2:So, surprisingly, I finished my master's in executive leadership at Walden University and I was done, I was completely finished. But you know, I have a daughter that's a right now she works in neuro ICU as an RN and I have my she's 24 and I have a 21 year old that is in health care as well. They called me on FaceTime, a group chat, and was like mom, how long would it take for you to get your doctorate? Now you complete your master's. Like I just graduated. It wasn't, the paper wasn't even printed yet, it was just like congratulations, you got your master's, next conversation and I was like you know, I'm done, I don't have to do school anymore.
Speaker 2:Like for as far, y'all take it, y'all beat me. And then they say, well, what example you saying for us? You're gonna quit right now. And I'm like, well, I didn't quit, I'm just not starting, I just don't want to, you know. But but why not? I mean you always say go high, go high. And I'm like that's right. So we want to say how you doctor mom, like we want that benefit. And I'm like I want to let y'all earn something, because if I earn all the titles, what you got to look forward to. And so I looked into it and I was going to go back to Walden and there was a Dr Patricia. She works at UAB. She was a general in the military and me and her just ended up having a conversation. She said you know, I think you would be a good fit for UAB because of your belief system, your leadership belief system, how you feel about healthcare, which I'm passionate about, that you would be a good fit.
Speaker 1:And I was like you know not UAB.
Speaker 2:You know they not going to select me. You know I didn't go to the prestigious schools. I went to Chamberlain and Walden for my bachelor's and my master's. So I was like you know that's they're not going to look at me. That that was my thoughts and I applied anyway. I remember. I remember I applied and I stopped my application because I was like they're not going to let me Someone waste my time, I'm just going to go to Walden. And I got a call from UAB saying, hey, we were looking for you to finish your application. Why haven't you? And I was like, okay, well, I'll go ahead and finish it. And you know I had the references.
Speaker 2:The doctors I worked with were from UAB and I got selected. I was one out of 15 in my cohort and I was executive leadership without a nurse practitioner. So I was kind of like feeling like a fish out of water. But then I was like, well, you know, if I was placed here, it's because I was meant to be here. And I had to stop and say you know what? Why be intimidated? Like you're different, it's okay with being different. You don't have to be a nurse practitioner, you still make an impact on healthcare. And so I had to embrace my journey. And when I embraced that journey, and you know, two years later I got my doctorate and I graduated from UAB and I just didn't really see it, like I never would have seen it. But I had to say you know what? You're only place where you're supposed to be, you know.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:And you know, once I went and I graduated, I love UAB, I love the networking. I grew a lot more in different avenues in leadership of you know, talking to people that can help me as I do my professional growth ladder. It was a different, eye-opening experience and it was still something I added, you know. So I had a great experience. I would tell the truth on that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I saw you do a presentation. It was a leadership presentation. What?
Speaker 2:was that about? So I was a member. I am a member of Alabama State Nursing Association. I'm the District 3 Vice President, which has a focus on membership. How I became that was I've always been a member of Alabama State Nursing Association because it's important that on a professional level, that you have a voice.
Speaker 2:I believe that you should have a voice and to make changes. It only will come if you address it and you identify that there are issues. It doesn't. It's just not going to happen overnight. So I decided that year that I was going to be more involved, not just a payer. You know. I always paid and said you know, for the people who want to work, here's some resources, you know, and I'm like you know what, why don't you become more active? So I said let me take the leadership course because I feel like I want to grow as the leader. And one of the things.
Speaker 2:I had a Mr Chuck Lacey. He mentored me while I was getting my doctorate. I told him I noticed that as a charge nurse and I've worked as third-party nurse, which is called agency, and I've worked as staff I said well, when you are a charge nurse, there's no training. It's who turn? Is it the night. It's not an identified charge nurse and there's, which a charge nurse is usually identified role, which there's identified responsibilities, but every day, if I was a manager, these are not being done. You know, because you're the charge nurse and you're just saying, hey, it's your turn to be the charge nurse. You don't even know what your role consists of. And I said I do believe that in orientation that there should be um, that was the the problem. I identified that there should be some kind of like training, even it's one day training for everybody to that's going to be in a charge nurse role. Because there's not identified role where you get a dollar mode, you put your name in a book saying I'm charge nurse today, but you don't know that. What books you need to fill out, what forms you need to fill out, what forms you need to fill out, what reports you need to turn in, how you do the schedule, you don't know anything. And so a lot of people run from leadership or run from their role because they don't know how to do it. So why not train them? So we implemented the charge nurse program and during it it was hard to implement it because we had a change in leadership at the hospital we were at and therefore I identified something called the chaos theory and that chaos theory.
Speaker 2:It says any change automatically brings chaos. So if you are a leader, you should expect chaos, and the only time a leader has to step in is if the dust doesn't settle. They say the imagery should be take a handful of pennies and throw it in the air, right, that's the change. When it lands and it's making all that sounds, if you still hear it going, but too long, didn't expect it, that's when you step in and say, hey, we need to make adjustments. For too long than expected. That's when you step in and say, hey, we need to make adjustments, but usually it's going to start and settle as people get used to it. So you should want change. You should hear people say I don't want to do this, I don't want to do it, but what you want is that they still make the changes that you are putting in place and you're going to see the outcomes that you want. And that's what leaders do, that they are. You begin to change and you only step in to help get it back structured.
Speaker 2:And so there was different things. I know like hey, I made a different policy. I expect some give back. I can't go into the give back because what do I want? My outcome is? If I already expect that everybody's not going to like this idea, it's not a surprise when you hear the negative feedback. But you want to see the outcome.
Speaker 2:So you got to give it like six months to a year, and that's what the change theory is, and I've seen it multiple times in different avenues in leadership. I've experienced it even when I was a director of nursing at a nursing home. We would make changes and this ain't what we. This happened. This isn't what we've been doing, this hasn't you know. But I asked them hey, just give it a chance. That's all we can. Only, let's just it. Let's see what the changes are. You got to give it time. It's not going to be overnight. And usually your retention my retention rate, went up. A lot of changes I put in place. I've seen an improvement. But you also got to walk people in sometimes and that's called the buy-in.
Speaker 1:You have to have the buy-in. I agree, you're going to always have pushback when there is change. But one thing we know the one constant is change it's coming, whether you want it or not, whether you self-implement it where it needs to be an implementation. Um, I love what you said about you tell someone you're in charge tonight and they don't have a clue as to what that means. They kind of know they need to be making assignments, but other facilities have more of an expectation. When you are in charge, it's not just making the assignments and ensuring that your staff is okay, because there are some charge nurses who will not see if their staff is okay. They never look at that. It should be more than you're in charge tonight.
Speaker 1:Voila, that's how I got my first bid at being a charge nurse. I had been an RN for six months and they told me Carolyn, you're in charge tonight. And I went. How did that happen? I did and they were like you've been here the longest six months and and falling back on my, my role as an LPN, I always followed according to who was in charge that night. Okay, if it was one of my team builders, my mentors? Um, we did a lot of talking and we worked together a lot. So I had to fall back quickly, you know, to see or to remember what was going on and she gave me my assignment. My charge nurse called me and said you can do this, you are bright, you are smart, you have taught me a lot.
Speaker 1:I haven't been on that unit that long, but she had been charged on another unit and they brought her down to our unit for some stability and I was like, okay, you know, I still had not that buy-in, but I knew I was going to have to do it. Okay, and it went well, you know, I mean me being who I am. I said I walked away for a minute and I said, lord, lord, go before me, go before me and prepare the way. That's what's got to happen. But we did have a good at that time.
Speaker 1:It was eight hour shifts. We had a great shift and I'm not saying it was seamless, but I checked and double checked my work to make sure no doctor's orders went untouched. Okay, because that is one of your responsibilities as a charge nurse to make sure the orders get taken care of on your shift that were written on your shift and that they at least got implemented, even if they weren't due until the next day. So I just put that as part of my practice to double check that. And I got blowback from some of the staff how did you get to be charged? And I said, well, I sure didn't raise my hand for it. You know it's got to happen, somebody's got to do it and it went well and I'm thankful for it. So what have you done as charge or as a leader at this point in time?
Speaker 2:so may you repeat that question? I couldn't hear you. Your volume went out for a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. What else have you done as a leader or as a charge person, as a manager, to bring your staff together to develop some cohesiveness? Because one thing I noticed there's a lot of disconnect. What are you doing to bring your staff together?
Speaker 2:So one of the things I've always believed in and this is what healthcare is going to is transparency being a transformational leader, and you know, a lot of times you know the culture has been you have to hide. I always feel like give them the rationale Together. This is what we do because each role is important. Sometimes my CNAs I've had a patient care tech say I'm just a CNA, you are not just a CNA, you're not just a patient care tech, your role is important. You identify an issue in a resident that you need to notify the nurse that we can actually provide care and have a positive outcome when, if you do a huddle in the beginning of your shift together, this is our plan, this is what we need to do, this is our assignments, who get in their missions Then you're not blindsided. I do believe that if you give everybody not just okay, you're looking at the board and they're going off, you have a five or ten minute huddle prior to you beginning the shift, saying, hey, this is our plan, this is the game plan, what's the acuity like on all the residents? Uh, all the patients, because sometimes someone would be like, hey, I got a real sick patient. Then you choose, you get the first submission. You know, do you need a little? Yeah, so we all can have the same game plan and kind of know what's going on in it in a unit, as a collective. I feel like that's how I start the day. You know, even at the end of the shift you say hey, are you done, are you finished? Everybody good, so we can, at least we usually lead together and I think that's what helps bring teamwork, because it shows that you care. You're not just okay, it's all about me, I'm about to go, you know, um, but, but just trying to have, hey, um, identifying your team. Who's strong in this area are asking questions.
Speaker 2:You know, I had a nurse that say I like to get my patients in the beginning of the shift. So when we're doing um, the admissions, I'm like do you want the first admission? Because you know you just had it yesterday. But we're doing the admissions, I'm like, do you want the first admission? Because you know you just had it yesterday? But we're saying it in a group huddle because we know what you prefer, you know if it's your, you know we're looking and talking about the person who's getting the second admission and whatnot, and usually they give respect. Hey, you know what. You're the charge nurse, I'll take whatever you give me.
Speaker 2:I said, okay, I'm just trying to respect what you like, but that's within my capacity and I think that's where you earn a lot of respect. This might be a stronger nurse that used to be. I don't want to do this and I'm like a lot of times. It's respect if you talk to him with respect and say, hey, I did, I, I understand that this is how you like it. I'm trying to accommodate what you like to a degree, absolutely, you know, hey, know, hey, you know what I can tell you. Whenever I get, I'm conforming, but I'm not trying to make you conform Absolutely. Hey, I know you're trying to work for me. I do whatever you ask. You know, I usually get more people don't mind helping me because I'm like hey, my job is to try to help you, empower you in your role. How can I empower you? You know what can I give you. That's true.
Speaker 1:You know, when it's within reason, when a person makes a request, it has to be within reason, and some people want to get their assignment. I'd rather be full than have an empty bed. That's just me In my section. Just let me start off with what I got Right and I appreciate that. And there are some people yeah, I'll take the first admit, okay. So you find out people's preferences and you try to accommodate them as best you can. Nothing's 100%. Patients aren't 100. You can't bet that a patient will or will not calm. You might get two at the same time, right, so you do have to. Hey, we got to maneuver this Because I don't mind helping admit a patient. If it's not my patient, I don't mind jumping in and helping out, that's not a problem. But there still needs to be a degree of team effort in all of it Correct, and so that's where I do.
Speaker 2:If you ask me my experience, I don't have a long, long list of experience, but doing the huddles that puts everybody on one page. You know, we say you know, we know your team. If you work in, we know this nurse likes hers early A lot of times. We're coming in with three patients and we're topping out at five. I personally like to be. Give me mine. Give me my first admission. Let me knock it out.
Speaker 2:I don't like getting admissions at five in the morning. We can't predict it. But at five and six o'clock in the morning, the last minute, and you're giving our med pass. I'd rather have time to look at the person, look at the notes, make sure their labs are done. I prefer mine early so I can get in my rotation. You know, you know so. But there's some that be like no, let me be last. You know they just wait. I just like to get mine. So not the way you know. Like you said, let me get my five or let me get my 400 admission, Let me get my admission. So I'm locked up. I don't have to. You know I don't, I'd rather get it. It's not work. I'm here to take care of people.
Speaker 2:So, I'm trying to avoid taking care of a patient. That's not. That's not who I am, that's not my work ethic. Just give me my people so I can get people, so I can get people, because if I can get my people settled I don't mind helping no one else. Sure, and that's. I just like to have it done.
Speaker 2:Put my orders in and I don't like, at four or five in the morning sometimes I feel rushed. Sure, you know five or six you're rushing because you're trying to go home. Absolutely, you might not be as detailed and I like a little bit more detail, so I'd rather have time to go look at things, and that's my personal preference. So usually when they say, keena, you want the first admission, sure, do, but you had it yesterday. That's fine, because it makes my job easier and I'm a helper. You know, somebody gets on the flight, I might be going in someone else's room. Hey, you need this or you need that. You know we kind of do it.
Speaker 2:I do feel like most nurses do that and I got I don't want to say ADHD. I like to be busy. So I'm walking around and, ok, what you need To be, especially when you're in the leadership position, you have to be a resource to other people. Especially when you're in a leadership position, you have to be a resource to other people. I agree, if you're precepting someone, that doesn't mean you won't have patience, but you still gonna have to have your patience and to help somebody I'd rather get it on out the way. As a leader, let me have my people I know how to get them settled and then let me go help others.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, you have to take care of your load first before you can help someone else. Unless an emergency pops up right then everything's on hold and we know what we know now. Do you think your time in the military helps you with your way of processing a leadership?
Speaker 2:role. Yes, I really do, because I take I script a lot of my behaviors over what I've seen, even the huddles. Before you leave, before we went on convoys, we always did a huddle and then when you get done with it, you do a huddle. I see it even on our crash carts. When we have a cold, you know they have the after cold review. In summary, you're supposed to go back and analyze. If somebody falls, you have a post-fall review what could we do to prevent it, what went well, what we could have did better. You know and that's something always you always healthcare is always continuous. You should always, at the end of the shift, I'm looking at okay, this happened on my shift. What can I do better, what can we do better as a team, because I want my performance to get better. You should always be analyzing yourself. You should always be evaluating yourself. So I take that same leadership.
Speaker 2:I was 20 years old, teaching classes to people older than me, teaching BLS, and they did me the same way. Hey, you know you're the medic and I was attached to a military police unit. I was the only medic. So when it was time to do first aid class this is my first time at the unit. I'm just there, I don't even know where to get supplies. And they said you're the medic, you got to teach the class. And I was like what you mean? And they said you're the medic, you got to teach the class. And I was like what you mean? I just got out of school. Well, you're the subject matter expert.
Speaker 2:At this moment I'm 20 years old. Huh, I got to teach the class. Yeah, teach us what you know, and that's on a job training. I just was out teaching other people how to take care of them and what I had to realize is I'm going to teach you what I know, because the military says you're only strong if your weak is weak. If I hold back any information, it's not beneficial to me If I become the patient. So I'd rather you know what I know and I'd rather take the knowledge to other people and share it so that the outcomes are better around the board. But me holding on any information is not beneficial to me in the long term.
Speaker 2:I agree you know, I agree, you know, and so that's things that I actually do. I have rather share. Hey, let me show you this. This is what I do. You don't have to use these time management skills. This is how I do it. This is what I recommend. If you're in a learning environment, you're being trained. I want you to understand that you're going to have feedback. Just because somebody gives you feedback is not to hurt you, but that's why you're in a learning environment, so that if you make an error, you have time to fix it before you're on your own that's very true there's nobody there to fix it for you yeah, um, it's just troubleshooting.
Speaker 1:You didn't see this coming. It happened now. How can we best handle this situation in the future? Right, because you cannot predict every scenario. You're just doing best case scenarios, right, at this point in time. Um, so every day is a day of opportunity. Every day is a day of learning, in my humble opinion, especially when it comes to health care, right? And it is now, when you um, what was your leadership project that you did as you were. I think you were finishing up your doctorate before your graduation ceremony. What was that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so that one. Um, I didn't do a leadership project. I did do my doctorate project and it was, uh, developing a standardized guideline for postpartum mothers at UAB. Oh, great. So what it is is we tested or screened mothers 12 to 24 hours after delivering a baby to see if they had any signs and symptoms of postpartum depression, and then we can begin treatment earlier. Right now, the standard of care is is it was up to the doctor's discretion if, oh, I think you got depression Now we'll screen you. We want it to be everybody is screened so that we can identify those that have postpartum depression or could have it earlier, before they actually become severe symptomatic. Usually they don't find it until they really, really just express themselves in tears when they could have already been on some kind of medicines or some antidepressants prior to actually having the bad thoughts. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It does, it does Okay in your research or in your study for that, mm-hmm, do you think the women recognize their symptoms early or later?
Speaker 2:I really in our study we found that there were those that had symptoms of postpartum depression early, I mean within hours of delivery. Within hours of delivery. I don't think the females understood that they was having these symptoms until we actually hey, answer these questions and you scored at nine, you scored a 10. And I think it goes up to 13. And that's when you're flagged. Our guidelines right now is 10 or greater. You get treatment or your flags for social work. I we kind of believe, like eight or nine, that they should have a follow-up because usually if you're feeling like this on before going home, we don't know what your home situation is if you don't have a support system. Now, now you got babies with diapers. There was plenty of factors that increases your risk for postpartum depression that is going to show up after you have the child, like within the first six weeks of actually having a baby at home. So I think that there should be more awareness to it because right now, one in when we started started this study, one in eight women will have postpartum depression. Within the two years of us doing this study, it has went down to one in five women are predicted to have postpartum depression, with 50 percent of people being under diagnosed still. So that means that one in five could be one in two, every other woman.
Speaker 2:One is a stigma against postpartum depression. They, you, they hear the questions and they're going to ask oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, that's not so. We don't. Even we are assuming that sometimes the questions are not asked, um are answered to, to truly be treated, if you for lack of better terminology um. We've seen some people that turned around and um tried to um harm themselves or harm their children. But we look at this. What they um their screening scores?
Speaker 2:It may be be low because they hide the fact that, yes, I'm sad, yes, I have thoughts of harming myself. A lot of people may not admit to that because they don't want that stigma or they feel well, they're going to look at me bad, they're going to take my children. I don't want my children taken away. But you're really saying I need help. Yes, there's the difference saying hey, I need some help. You know that's the difference. Saying hey, I need some help. And I think that's where the stigma has to be changed, because how can we help you when you're scared to get help because you're going to take my children, because I'm thinking about harming them or myself and it's not an actual something. I'm putting in an action, but I need some help to go through these feelings of having a baby.
Speaker 1:I get that, I'm putting in an action, but I need some help to go through these feelings of having a baby. I get that and I think sometimes people give you the answer they want you to have and not exactly the answer in which they are feeling. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? That's true, um, one of our studies did show that. You know, we have a strong latino base. Um, it's a lot of his face. Um, right now, I?
Speaker 2:I studies was wonderful because it actually showed a correlation to what the cdc had about the diagnosis is I study only folks on English speaking people were the ones that did not need a translator. Do you know? It was 68% of people we could not screen because they didn't speak English. So how many of those people cause you know, we, we, you know we say, well, we get, we got a Spanish version of the screening. Well, you don't speak Spanish, you don't read Spanish. So how are we really treating the people? We have one translator in the clinic.
Speaker 2:That and some of the factors are being Hispanic causes you to be in Christmas for postpartum, speaking a foreign language, not having a support system. Well, you done came from Mexico and your mom and your dad and your whole family is still in Mexico, so you don't have support with these kids. Having multiple kids under the age of five most Hispanics, not all, a lot of them that was taking, taking it that we had to avoid had stair-step kids. Yes, the age of five, um, that could submit increased risk being poor, social and economical um, not having a lot of money. Basically, there was a lot of reason, risk and we're I'm looking at a group of 68 68 percent of the women that gave birth we could not screen because we had a small subset of population. We were screening in a six-week period. So imagine, out of that 68%, how many people were probably going to have a high risk for postpartum depression. That wasn't even screened.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely they won't get screened until maybe at six weeks. Okay, you know, but we were screening before going home, before discharging from the hospital. So that was the pilot study of screening people, young ladies, before they go home for postpartum, and then following up with them in two weeks. If they had a higher, if they scored higher, and if they scored, you know, normal, then it would be their regular six weeks checkup that they would get the screening.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I was going to say most people are in the two to four days and you know, did you have, um, were the obstacles in screening those people in that short period of time? And if there were, did you screen them later? So you answered that that's perfect, thank you, okay. So, uh, that is interesting to know, dr Phillips, that it is. Now we're about to come to a close.
Speaker 1:Your future has been all over the place in such a positive, positive way. You have inspired your children and your co-workers and your friends. You know, because you, when you got on that train, I mean you moved, you move forward. A lot of people just stop it. Well, I'm just going to get my bachelor's and I'm going to be, I'm going to be OK and that's fine. Whatever you know, whatever your goals are and that's just not you personally, that is just people in general whatever your goals are, we applaud everyone for that. It's just to see that your rise from student nurse to doctorate, I just really appreciate it. I thank you for doing that for yourself and for your kids and for the profession, because someone can always learn from someone if they just take the time to do so, because you can be an inspiration to someone who is, at this point, an LPN and they'll say well, you know, I'm just LPN and I always own my LPN.
Speaker 1:I was an LPN for five years. I said, baby, I was an LPN for five years and I don't regret any of it. Okay, and here I have, slowly came forth. I was not going to obtain my master's. Okay, I was like, why do I need it? I am doing well in this role that I have. I'm able to move up, I'm able to matriculate through the system and do well in whatever position they put me in. And my daughter walked in one day mom, why don't you get your master's? I said you would come in here with that. Then it's the doctor right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because she has hers and I'm like I'm happy for you, I'm happy for you, but the thought never left my head, okay, and because I was like ready to brush it off, but the thought never left my head. But so I was able to complete my master's. I'm glad I did, and that's all I can say. I'm glad I did. I learned a lot. It's not it's not in nursing, it's health service administration, and so I learned various aspects of health and young related topics while matriculating through, and I'm glad I did.
Speaker 1:You know, like I said, you can always learn something, you know, and so it's good to just keep an open mind. And I've always told my docs, when I had to call them and confer with about a patient, I said now they were like, well, caroline, we don't really have to do that, or what do you think? And I said well, you know, doc, I'm a forever learner, so whatever you want to tell me, teach me, show me, I'm all about it. And they just open up and just pour into you. So that's a good thing. Now, where do you see your future in a couple of years?
Speaker 2:So a couple of years I do plan to. I want to be in the leadership. I'm in leadership, I probably want to be teaching, I want to give back. I just um, you know, that's that's where I really see myself. I think I'm still going to be working. I like to be in the middle. Still kind of. I'm still where I'm at in my career at this moment. I still like to be at the bedside. So I probably want like a management position because I still like to be one-on-one. I still like to see patients. I still like to have some direct relationships with my staff. I like to nurse because I feel like sometimes in leadership you're still a nurse. You're just a different type of level. You got to wear different hats but you're always a nurse and I kind of like that impact where I can make some impacts on people and talk to people and level people up. I like to see people grow. I get more of a personal gratification from seeing other people grow.
Speaker 1:So I want to see that you know we need good nurses. We need good nurses. We need more and more of them. So I agree with you, you know, just being where you can assist them in that growth process and their learning process, Well, that is wonderful. Thank you so much. Any closing remarks?
Speaker 2:Thank you so much Any closing remarks. Well, I want to say thank you again for inviting me on this interview. I also for anybody listening, to make sure that you become an advocate for yourself. Join some of the personal professional organizations. I have, and I feel like that's been one of my inspirations. There have been a lot of support from different organizations. I have, and I feel like that's been one of my inspirations there have been a lot of support from different organizations. I want to give a shout out to Birmingham Black Nurses Association because, to be honest, that was another me.
Speaker 2:Being exposed to so many different Black women that were young, that had these wonderful degrees and wonderful careers have been a motivation for me, because at first I'm like it's not going to happen to me, but when I see other people and I seen the pouring out, the mentorship from you I can name so many different people that I have looked up to and mentored. I want to give back you. Just, you know, joining those organizations help keep you on a good path. Alabama State Nursing Association has helped me become on a great path. I do think that's important. Is you got to have a support system to kind of keep you on track with your career. I agree you do. You won't settle. There's nothing wrong with settling, I agree you do. You do say here I am is so many people have given me words of wisdom, words of advice, encouragement. Show me in their beliefs and attitudes who I would like to be. Just you know. That's very important.
Speaker 1:It is important it is. It is great to build people up. It is great to encourage people because you never know where they are that particular day. So if you can speak some words of comfort, support, encouragement into them, you don't know how much that does for them that day. That gives them that extra boost to keep going. Because that happened to me a lot when I was in RN school. Some of the LPNs would say to me keep going, Don't give up. We need you, we need you to become an RN. And I was always appreciative because I didn't even know they knew I was in school. Always appreciative because I didn't even know they knew I was in school. Does that make sense? And I was appreciative of that. You know they were motherly figures and co-workers at the same time. So it's definitely beneficial, you know, to be able to speak some words of encouragement into society.
Speaker 2:But thank you again for being one of my mentors. I you know if anybody doesn't know one of the what is a best-selling author in the nation, in the world. You know, I've been attached to greatness for a long time and I appreciate it, thank you. I'm gonna have my book and just know that I followed behind you. I got me a book, I'm a best-selling book and just know that I followed behind you.
Speaker 1:I got me a book. I'm a best-selling author. That's right. That's right, that's right. Everyone has a story to tell and no one can tell your story like you can. Okay, so when you set your mind to write your story. I know a publisher for you, Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you so much. You have a good evening, okay, dr Kena, phillips, everyone. Thank you, kena, you have a wonderful day you too.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.