Speaker 1: 0:03

Hello everyone. This is Carolyn Coleman. Happy New Year to everyone, 2025. I welcome you all. Thank you for listening. We have Mr Charlie Jones and he is an author and we met at an author expo. So, in true Carolyn's form, we have inspirational scripture and we're going to let him introduce himself and then we will get started from there. There's nothing like starting the new year off right, that's what we're going to do. So he told me he has had a great year so far. Starting out, we love that. And from 1 Peter, 2 and 16, live as free men. Do not use your freedom to cover up for evil. Live as servants of God. So, mr Jones, tell us a little bit about yourself and then you can tell us about your book.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Okay, my name is Charlie Jones. I was born and raised in Tuscaloosa, alabama. I come from a family of gardeners and that is something that carried on with me, although I have a master's degree in social work and I was in independent practice for several years and I was married for 30 years. But gardening was always something that I always enjoyed and it seemed to carry me through the hard times, bad times, and it seems like that I could always find a comfort zone in my gardening. And so after I retired as a marriage therapist and I also was in case management and so forth I spent a lot of time in my garden and during that time things got kind of rocky in my marriage. So I had sort of achieved my educational goals, but there was something missing. Now I need to give you a little bit more about my background.

Speaker 2: 2:34

With my parents we were farmers, we gardened every day, and mom and dad, they had an interesting thing that they had us do To prepare us for life. They made us learn Bible verses. We had to memorize these Bible verses, especially mom, and she would assign us like to one person it was seven of us she would give 25 verses. One person it was seven of us. She would give 25 verses. You had to learn the Bible, the scriptures and the words. She would give you 25, 30. At her time she would say, we're going to go over those Bible verses. But her way of saying going over the Bible verses was meant that she would give you the chapter and verse and you tell her the verse, or vice versa. They believed in to spare the rod was to spoil the child. It had a lot of pressure on me. And so, seven of us, she would give one person 10, another 25. But she would always give me 50, 100. But I took pride in that because I had a good memory back in those days. Okay, and so she would gather us around and the little switches would be over on the bed and we would memorize and we would quote the scriptures and all those things. Now, in addition to that, we had to do our farming and we had to make good grades in school. Now, in addition to that, we had to do our farming and we had to make good grades in school. But she didn't seem to expect. She gave us according to what she thought we could do, but she always, there was always pressure, and so I got my education Successful, let me say that I went into chemistry and wound up being a clinical social worker, so this kind of tells you where I was in my life story at a young age.

Speaker 2: 4:29

I was 21 and I finally got introduced to life to some degree. So I got married. I chased what you would call the perfect wife two and a half kids and the picket fence. That's what I chased all my life. But somewhere along the way, after over 20 years of marriage, I started having marital issues, although I was a marital counselor most of the time, and so during that time I continued with the gardening and so forth as my problems mounted, and it came a time where things just wasn't working out, and so I was really confused because the therapeutic techniques that I told others to do were not necessarily working for me, and so I still spend that time in the garden still chopping, and I thought that was displacing negative energy and all those other terms that you learned as a therapist. So in the end I got so far down.

Speaker 2: 5:48

My sisters and brothers would always tell me things like trust God, have faith in God and those kind of things, but my mom had already told us all of those things. But I was in a situation to where those things were not working for me. I needed something tangible, something that would. I needed some release. And so something happened that was really miraculous while I was working in my garden.

Speaker 2: 6:21

I worked in my garden and one day I was coming back from my garden and we had a little place where there were concrete, where you had your barbecue grill and so forth. I was coming back and there was a little plant growing, but it was growing between the crack of the concrete and I thought it was really just fascinating. I said, look at that thing, now it's growing. And so a few days or a few weeks later it continued to grow, and so I put a tomato cage around it because I thought that was really fascinating, and I took pictures of it and I would go out. It was raining. I would take pictures of it like it was a model or something, but I was still in pain. Like it was a model or something, but I was still in pain. I would take these pictures to my sisters and brothers' home and they would tell me about trust, god, those kind of things, those little clichés we hear about all the time, and I would distract them by showing them the pictures. I'd say look at this, this thing continues to grow despite the circumstances that it's under.

Speaker 2: 7:24

And so so one night I was studying my Bible and I was really in a bad place. I had accumulated all of these pictures of the same okra that was growing between a crack and a concrete, and I was going to my pity party, like I did, because my relationship was not working, and so I took my stuff, flipping through the photographs, and something miraculous happened the Bible verses that my mom instilled in me, that I memorized, came alive through the photographs. Here was an okra, that between the crack of the concrete, which shouldn't even be there, because I'm saying I had just one okra. If I had okra, why did just one grow? And then I start looking. Why does the okra change shapes? Why is it so prosperous, in spite of the circumstances that it's under? Why is it that it doesn't require me to water it or to do anything for it, but it just continues to grow?

Speaker 2: 8:36

And in that moment, as I flipped through those photographs, the Bible verses became real through the essence of the Oprah. Okay, and so what happened was this I could take a still photograph and I could quote a Bible verse I could quote, and I could go to the next and quote a Bible verse I could quote, and I could go to the next and quote another Bible verse. What I found that happened was that mom was actually sowing the seed in my life that would become fruitful when the heart was ready to receive the seed. That's what would happen. And as I look through those photographs I would say, oh my God, I can see the invisible, as I would say that. A scripture came to my mind. It was Romans 1.20. The invisible attributes of God are clearly seen through the things that are made, even his power and glory attributes, for they are without an excuse. Now, that was the impetus for writing the garden love story.

Speaker 2: 10:12

What I realized one day while I was out in my garden that vegetables and marriage have a lot in common. Vegetables have physical characteristics and nutrients. Humans have physical characteristics and varying personalities. Vegetables provide nutrients to the human body. Now, marriage, or two human bodies that require nutrients from vegetables, a body without nutrients will become diseased. When a nutrient inside a vegetable decline, the vegetable start to wither. A marriage requires spiritual nutrients love, trust and faith. A marriage without spiritual nutrients becomes unhappy and will start to wither. So I think what happened to me on that day in my garden was that I had a counseling session with my vegetables. So in the end of this, that was the inspiration for the garden love story.

Speaker 2: 11:27

As I analyzed all of this information that was going through my mind, the question came what if vegetables were humans? How would a vegetable know who to marry? Now that comes from the thought of Adam and Eve was in the garden of Eden. That was the very first wedding in the Garden of Eden. Let's say, if you took Adam and Eve out of it, everything would still be indeed very good, but how would a vegetable know who to marry?

Speaker 2: 12:02

Now, there's a parable in the Bible that says I am the vine, you are the branches. But that parable also is relevant to human beings. You have to abide in the vine Because we're the branches. The vine gets all of its nutrients through the root, through the vine and then through the branches. The vine gets all of its nutrients through the root, through the vine and then through the branches, and the branches bring forth fruit, which is what a marriage is supposed to do. So as I looked over my garden, I was looking at the garden in terms of human beings and I spotted one of my cabbages and I said to myself I'm going to make the cabbage and this is inspirational because I couldn't have. I was doing marriage therapy for humans all these years, but now I'm in the garden so I named this cabbage Daisy, which is sort of like a flower, kind of like a vegetable being named after a vegetable being named after a flower.

Speaker 1: 13:14

Sure.

Speaker 2: 13:15

And then I looked at the other vegetables in the garden and then I said suppose this garden was owned by Godfather Goodson, and that's synonymous with God, the Father. And then I was looking at suppose Godfather Goodson owned the garden and that was Grace. Goodson, that's Jesus through his son, that's God through his son, jesus, which is grace. So if there's a capuchin, there's a person who, male or female, who lacks spiritual discernment or spiritual understanding of the word of God, the first thing that she would need to do is first make a connection. He or she would need to do was to make a connection and have a strong relationship with Godfather Goodson. That's the only way that she could choose the right mate for her. And so from there I start to say let's say now who is going to court, daisy Cabothead, and one of the first characters she's run into. Because she's young, she doesn't know much, she's been raised the lust of the flesh, deceitfulness of riches. By the way, her mom is called Bonnie Cabothead and her dad is Clyde Cabbagehead, which is a reference to Bonnie and Clyde. So she's already kind of like in a childhood of what you would call gangsters. But their relationship, bonnie and Clyde's relationship, has lasted over 15, 20 years. So now Daisy's in the garden and she's going to meet all of these potential suitors. These are suitors who come into her and they want to date her. But she's looking for a person, a vegetable, that she can marry.

Speaker 2: 15:16

And so one of the first vegetables that she meets is Mr Corn, and just give you a synopsis of what he's like he's tall, dark and handsome like a cornstalk. He has a tassel, which means he's well-educated. He comes from a college called Cornell University. He has two attachments to his side it's like a cornstalk wood attachments to his side. It's like a cornstalk wood. And Daisy analyzes him and what she finds out is that he's very intelligent, but sometimes, when he reaches to his side and drinks some of his nutritional drink, he becomes kind of oblivious, which is a reference to corn whiskey, as you would say.

Speaker 2: 16:06

The thing about it is that each character has flaws. He's educated, has attachments to his children, has other attachments, he wants to be known as intelligent, but after he drinks from his nutritional attachments he become oblivious. And so the parable our text of parables was stripped to him, saying basically even a fool is wise. He pretty much keeps his mouth shut. What I did was each character, I showed their vulnerabilities, despite their education or their achievements. Now, the next she meets Mr Cucumber. Mr Cucumber is long and strong. He's a climber, if you know anything about gardeners. The cucumber runs. He has a nice blossom, and so his issue is that he climbs the trestles. He puts out fires for female veggies in the garden, but the next day he finds himself caught in a pickle because of their boyfriends.

Speaker 1: 17:29

Wow.

Speaker 2: 17:33

Now you go to the next character. His name is Mr Onion. Mr Onion always has a sad song. He's looking for love in empty spaces. Now, his issue is that he always comes to a female vegetable when he's trying to court him and he's got a sad song. Everybody's done him wrong. The thing about him is that once he gets the female veggie's empathy, he drops to one knee and places an onion ring on their finger. Most of the female veggies have an allergic reaction to him.

Speaker 2: 18:25

So Daisy goes through this process with Mr Corn, mr Cucumber, mr Onion, mr Zucchini and there's one other, mr Squash. And these are characteristics from human beings that I'm putting onto the vegetables. I'm using metaphors, double word meanings, to bring out a point. Now, mr Squash, he's a crookneck, you're a crookneck squash. He can only see a story. He can only see something from one side because his neck is crooked. Now what Daisy's trying to do is how would this translate into a marriage?

Speaker 2: 19:02

But the thing about Mr Crookneck Squash is this he's a politician and she's very impressed with him because he can say a lot with a few words and say nothing with a whole lot of words. And he's running for the president of Fieldtown. Fieldtown is where they live, where all the veggies live in the field. She talks with him and she's very impressed. She thinks about she's going to be the first lady of field town once he becomes president of field town. She learns that he is related to the pumpkin family and he's actually. He can present himself as a vegetable. He's actually a fruit, a squash is actually a fruit, but they have overlapping characteristics and he's a politician. So her problem with him is that he's been presenting himself as a veggie when he's actually a fruit. So she wants to know what party is he in anyway? So then when she found out he's related to the pumpkins, she's upset because pumpkins have a tendency, a dominant gene for obesity. And so then she started wondering in a relationship with Mr Squash, how can she trust him? And she started thinking about their kids. How would he? She wonders about how can he take the kids to school If it's, how can he drive the kids to school if his neck is in one direction? So she comes up with some interesting issues with him. So in the end all of her dreams of being the first lady of Fjordtown were squashed, first Lady of Filtown were squashed, and so it's a very corny book, double word meanings, metaphors and so forth.

Speaker 2: 21:15

But in the end, what she finds out is that her problem is not with the suitors, the problem is with her relationship with Godfather Goodson is with her relationship with Godfather Goodson. The first thing she needs to do is to establish a personal relationship with Godfather Goodson, then rely on him to help her make a good decision. Now, this decision is not going to be based upon the lust of the flesh, the deceitfulness of riches, whether you're a politician and all that kind of stuff. It's going to be based upon her relationship with him. Now, a marriage, even a failed marriage, can bring a person closer to a relationship with God. Even if you go back, like with Goma and Hosea and some, god has a way of bringing you closer to him.

Speaker 2: 22:15

So the book actually combines a fairy tale, those fairy tales initially, and then it goes into a series where she has to be broken. Disappointment breaks you because none of those suitors actually met up to her standard. But the problem was not in the suitors, it was in her personal relationship with the Lord. It was in her personal relationship with the Lord. And even in the book it goes on where she gets to the point where she wants to climb a beam, stop to heaven and find her true love. But she just messed up. And then in the end she finds her mate, but the mate that she finds. Should I go on to who she found or should I just leave that, because I've told most of the book? But she finds her mate.

Speaker 1: 23:11

Yes, you can go on, I mean, this is your story.

Speaker 2: 23:18

And her mate winds up being Mr Parsley, after she'd been disappointed by Mr Corn, mr Onion, mr Cucumber, that was a Mr Zucchini and there were several others. She's been disappointed by all of those and she's reached a state of brokenness for the words of her mom and dad, clyde and Bonnie Cabbagehead. But they were telling her wait, it's all in the Lord's hands Because they had been married for several years, 30 years or so. I know 30 years in garden time is a little bit different from human time. But it took her faith journey for her to realize that she needed a personal relationship with the Lord.

Speaker 2: 24:08

Daisy actually analyzed her parents' relationship because they always argued with each other. Daisy Cabothead I mean Clyde Cabothead and Bonnie Cabothead, which is an analogy to Bonnie and Clyde, the gangsters. They said they always argue. She said you're always arguing, you're always telling me what to do, but your relationship don't seem to be working out. And Bonnie Cabbagehead would say to her husband I could have married Mr Planner, he was a nut who became over the bank of Fieldtown. And so Clyde would tell her and McViner would tell her that they had contradicting, that they could have been better apart from each other. But Daisy came to a conclusion initially that they had a sour grape marriage. But through her relationship and her faith journey she found out that they had a sauerkraut marriage. Now sauerkraut, of course, is cabbage which is fermented. Yes, so a marriage that is fermented, which means basically, basically metaphorically, they've gone through a lot. They've gone through a lot together. They still stay together. It's better than a cabbage head marriage where you're fresh out there and trying to find your way. So in the end she married Mr Parsley. Mr Parsley doesn't have the attributes of a politician, he doesn't have the length and width of a cucumber, he doesn't have the education of a Mr Corn, but her attractiveness to him is on a spiritual level, mr Parsley. First of all Parsley. The name for him is Rock Celery, and that's kind of like a thing about Rock of Ages. He has a boisterous, a boisterous voice in the face of adversity. This became her. I became her attraction to him, not on the physical, not on the material, but on the spiritual. And so the book goes on to talk about they got married and they had the vegetables. They had their wedding in Italy and they were pollinated on their wedding night. And so it gets kind of ridiculously humorous at some points in there. And they had two children. By the way, mr Parsley's name was Elvis Curly Parsley, so reference to Elvis Presley, so he wasn't all wimp, and they invited everybody in the garden to their wedding and they had seven kids.

Speaker 2: 27:34

So in the end the essence of the book is what it starts out with. In the beginning of the book is a vegetable days of cabbage head, a person who lacks spiritual understanding, who is trying to find a mate. And she goes through all these traumas and she's trying to find one based on the lust of the flesh, deceitfulness of riches and those kind of things. And her journey is that, through all the disappointment Godfather Goodson is making her, it's kind of like the sword in the seat. He's breaking her down. He's breaking him down to where she's saying things from a spiritual perspective through her life journey. Now the book is gender friendly because there's a section in the book is gender friendly because there's a section in the book to where we, we we talk about. Suppose Mr Daisy Cabbagehead met Miss Cucumber and vice versa. What would that relationship would be? What would that relationship be? And then it breaks down to where, let's say, if Miss Cucumber married, let's say she married one of the other characters in there. What would it be? So it's vice versa on the sex issue of it.

Speaker 2: 29:05

But in the end, the main storyline in the book is that before you get married, you need to have an understanding of yourself. You need to ask God. Ask God for the good son to let you make the best decisions and even with that, there are going to be some trouble. There's going to be some trouble. There's also a section in the book where we get to where couples in the Bible who had problems in their marriage. We talk about David and Bathsheba. We talk about Hosea and Goma. Then we get on down. We talk about Mary and Joseph. In other words, it's God's grace, his sovereignty. Despite our choices, god's will be done and sometimes a bad marriage can give you a better relationship with the Lord. It's something that humans, you can't really understand, but you make the best choice. But if you trust it, if you trust the Lord, if you're willing to understand yourself and know that you're not perfect because we can't judge, we're all sinners and God will direct you and tell you what you need to do, and even a bad marriage can be a good thing.

Speaker 2: 30:37

Just right now I'm reading the book of Hosea and it has nothing to do with who's bad and who's this, and that it has more to do with myself. I have been apart from him and so when you start seeing yourself and get out of this thing, where I was in, where I went to college, I'm going to meet the perfect woman two and a half kids, white picket fence. None of that works out. Where every movie on TV works out, with the kissing at the end. Once you can get out of that frame of mind and come into a relationship, personal relationship with the Lord, then he will allow you. You're going to still have your choices, but he'll determine the outcome and because you trust him, then things will work out. Spiritual growth, thank you, Mr Charlie.

Speaker 1: 31:35

I really appreciate that, but let's, how do you? You are a clinical social worker, right?

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 1: 31:45

So you help people. Did you help people with their marriages or you help them with other aspects of their lives?

Speaker 2: 31:51

Well, I was. If there was a client who had a marital issue, I relied upon my education. Okay, and so I did. I was, like I said, master's degree, independent practice license and I would teach them the techniques. Because when you're dealing with clients, one thing they tell you about you cannot induce. I was not at a point in my life where I had the connection with the Lord. So when I did my therapy, you cannot impose, as they say, your beliefs on the clients. You have to kind of let them lead you as to what they want. Now, if you want to be a Christian counselor which I was not at the time you need to get an additional set of skills, and then the client has to agree that that is the modality that they want to pursue. But most clients that I've met with, they had their issues, but that was not what they wanted to pursue. So what I did was use the standard Freudian, algerian, whatever. Whatever the issue, whatever the modality that works for them, whatever the modality that works for them.

Speaker 2: 33:21

But after I retired and in my own personal life, I found that what my mom was trying to teach me which I, when you was a child, you thought as a child. What she was trying to show me at that age became real to me as I experienced life and what she was trying to tell me and to see that she's trying to sow in my heart. She couldn't do it, she could just sow the seed out there. But it took personal experiences, it took a brokenness to where I could actually understand what she was trying to tell me. It took a personal relationship with the Lord to where I understood what was going on in my own marriage and that's what I'm trying to say. So if I were to be a counselor now in marriage or whatever the issue is, I would be a Christian counselor. But I didn't start out that Going into school and trying to get a degree they don't necessarily offer you. There's some standard things that they offer you. At some point you have to say well, I want to be a Christian counselor. You already have to have that in your heart. So the point with Days of Cavity to me is that we all I don't know about we, but I personally started off as a Cavity. I bought into what the curriculum said, but then there was something else going on with me outside the curriculum. Now I still have my counseling license and all that kind of thing. But at this point in my life if I was going to do counseling it would have to be Christian counseling. I've gone through too much personally and the Lord has brought me from too far, too far up to where I'm at now. Until all, that would be the only thing because there's a comfort. There's a comfort in what you're going through. If you trust Now in this book that I have, it has a section in that book that's called Parables and Pictures.

Speaker 2: 35:35

Okra grew between the crack of the concrete when I was going through believe it or not marital problems and how that okra. It actually was God's revelation to me. It was his way of getting connected to me. It's sort of like I guess the best example I can give it's kind of like Moses at the burning bush. He was in a desert, there was a bush burning and there's nothing strange about bushes burning in the sun, but the strange thing about it was that it was not consumed. And in the same way I compared myself to Moses. There's an oak in the concrete that I didn't put there and what is it doing there? How did it get there? Why does it prosper Now in my personal relationship and my marriage.

Speaker 2: 36:44

I projected, after I went through my own relationship, my own situation to the okra. It changed, it grew in the same difficult spot, it flourished. And I was going out to my garden and my little okra there was falling over at the top. And I say, when I went through the experience, that's me, I'm the okra, I can overcome, I can do all things through Christ, anyway, who strengthened me. And so now I write books about cabbages. I write books about the first book I wrote about my personal story and in that book is in that book is those pictures in both books. But I didn't know what was happening to me. I knew what was happening to me in the flesh.

Speaker 2: 37:58

But there was something going on with me in the spirit. And once the spirit took over, then I knew that whatever comes towards me, I can handle it. There's a breakdown when you're in the desert. With Moses. There was a breakdown from when they went from there, when he left out to eat. When he left and they put him out in the desert there's a breakdown. There's a breakdown with Jonah and the bell at a whale. There's a breakdown with Peter when a chicken crowed three times the chicken crows all the time at five o'clock in the evening, but that time was for him. So there's a personal thing that God uses in nature to teach a man. He teaches humans through nature because nature declares his glory. And when Cain and Abel I'm getting a little bit off topic when Cain killed Abel, the ground cried out. There were no witnesses, but the ground cried out for justice. So anyway, I'm about to get off topic now, because I kind of do that sometimes.

Speaker 1: 39:16

Well, that's okay, I mean, one thought leads into another. So this is a garden love story, the parable of faith journey to marriage.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Now tell us about your first book.

Speaker 2: 39:29

My first book is my personal book. It's called Growing a Successful Marriage Through Faith. Now, this is a book that I wrote when I was actually in a good situation with my spouse and she read it, most of it, and she actually read the outline of the Garden Love Story book. But I didn't know at the time that the Lord was preparing me for something, for the storm that was about to pursue Epidemic, just about 29 years, you know, still on my honeymoon. But the point about it I'm trying to say I didn't know that the Lord was preparing me for something she read but I didn't know the ending. And then she read the outline of the Garden Love story, which we both laughed together about how corny and however it is. But I didn't know that the Lord was preparing me for what I was going to go through. So I finished the Garden Love Story, which is.

Speaker 2: 40:43

It starts off like me and my wife, my wife-to-be. We went to high school together. We graduated the same year, 75. We never dated. Ten years later we were on our 10th year high school reunion and we remet.

Speaker 2: 41:05

But there was a lot of life between us. There was a lot of life between high school, from where she was, and high school where I was. So we met and that talks about, basically we met. We were both dealing with issues. We were both dealing with issues in life my mom had died and had a relationship and that had gone and she had been on a divorce, and so those two factors chaos is what I would say brought us together, because we knew in high school, in the 12th grade, we were good people. But life has a tendency where when you go this way and this way, then you come back together. A lot of things can bring you together. It's not always good things. You know, two people can rob a bank together. Who wants to get outside the bank? One in Vegas and the other in Florida.

Speaker 2: 42:03

The point I'm trying to say is that the Lord has a way of bringing people together. Well, you make your choices and it's not, may not be the best choice, but sometimes the choice that happens, that you make brings you close to him, and it's not a one-sided thing. Maybe he became closer to him also. So sometimes the Lord has a way. As the Proverbs say, men make choices, god determine outcomes, and when you pray In the Lord's prayer, you say that will be done, and so, from that Perspective, we love. I think we love each other on a certain level, but sometimes we can love each other on a survival level, which is not necessarily a spiritual level. So anyway, saying that, that led me into the Garden Love Story book, where Daisy could actually have married any one of those characters.

Speaker 2: 43:13

But what's going to survive, what's going to allow her to survive, is her personal relationship with the Lord, because the personal is. Your focus is on him. You trust him, you ask him, you cry out to him. That's what's going to get you through this life, not your education, not your whatever you told other people. It's like Nicodemus. Nicodemus went to school and he went to Jesus and Jesus told him are you a ruler of the Jews and know not these things? It's a wonderful thing when you develop a personal I'm not talking about the pastors in the church, personal. When it becomes personal, you can listen to whoever you want to listen to, but you know what he's done for you, what he brought you through. You trust him, you know what love is he loves. You can't find that kind of love in a human being. No, it's just that you can.

Speaker 2: 44:19

You can find an arc. You can find in some nice soul records.

Speaker 1: 44:25

That's true, and it's, it's, it's similar or it is A testimony, is a no one can tell your testimony like you can.

Speaker 1: 44:37

They can try to repeat it, but it's so personal they won't be able to describe it or the emotions won't be evoked unless you tell your own testimony. Absolutely, I tell people. I say, let me give you a little piece of this testimony I heard today, because I can't tell it like she told it or like he told. But let me just give you just a little nugget from the testimony. You can repeat it, but it's not going to have that same strength behind it.

Speaker 2: 45:07

Yeah, but you can get a couple of people together I'm talking about. You know we get lost up in cliches and stuff, but this is what I call them Christian peoples, when they can share the same story. When you take a Paul and put him with a Peter and put him with a Thomas now he was one of them too Sure, well, you can take them, and they know that it all. Let's put it this way, and they know that it all. Let me put it this way there's 12 disciples were disciples, but only after the Lord went to the cross that they actually had the same story. And so you can be.

Speaker 2: 45:46

Let me see if you go back to Adam and Eve. Let's go back to the Garden of Eden. They were one flesh but they were not spiritual until they were bonded. They never got that far With the spirit of God, through trust in him. That's where the old devil sneaked in at there and messed that part up. And in the same way, the 12 disciples. You see what? Thomas doubted him and we all a little bit of Thomas. But God brings us all together to him and he does that nationwide, first to Israel and then to the Gentiles. But then the Gentiles accepted Jesus before Israel.

Speaker 2: 46:27

The point about it we all have fallen short of the glory of God. And once you meet a person and you put your focus on him, he said put not your trust. In the point of once you put your focus on him, then you feel like God leads you. But God ain't going to lead you wrong. Whatever you do and whatever choice you make, it's going to grow you. You have to break up ground in order to plant a seed. That's true. I mean God said. He said this is my body which is broken for you. There's tears of saying that You're breaking your body for me.

Speaker 2: 47:17

So anyway, I got these photographs in big, large pictures with the scriptures on them, as the Lord revealed it to me when I was going through what I was going through. They are big pictures. I call them parables in pictures and you can put those pictures together and you can see most people. Depending on how the Lord's spirit works, you can see your life story in it. I got three pictures. One is called Between a Rock and a Hard Place. It's got that okra in one stage. I got one called Oasis, which is that okra. It's a little older but it's in the concrete but there's water on it, oasis. And I got another one which is in the concrete, but nothing but buds, nothing but flowers on it. So, caught between a rock and a hard place, god is able to provide all your needs. Oasis basically says in hard time, god will provide rain.

Speaker 2: 48:22

And then you got by faith. By faith and I studied that scripture by by faith. By faith is about nothing that you can do yourself humanly. That by faith is something that's invisible, that only God knows what it is. You can't present something to him unless you believe that. That's what the by faith is, the belief that he is able. The belief is the by faith is. I believe that you are able to. So I have this photograph exhibit that I call parables and pictures, and I, most people, can find their own life story, in their circumstances, in their life, because we all are sinners, we all have fallen short of the glory of God and there's only one truth and that's him.

Speaker 2: 49:26

So I got all these pictures with the scriptures on them that I got from my experience and another person. I hand that to another person they say, oh well, I see it this way, but it's that okra. It's that okra in the concrete. I had one person tell me I showed him this. He asked me. I said look here, let me show you this picture. He said oh man, how do you grow marijuana that way? That was his.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Now let me tell you how I equate that to you. Ever heard of that Rorschach test or egg block test? Yes, have you ever looked up in the clouds and somebody said that's a bird. Other people say that's a missile. It's more of a reflection of where you come from or how you see things. So I have all these pictures from those Oak Rock, pictures which how God revealed to me. Through those pictures and with those pictures, I can show the wilderness story through three pictures Moses in the wilderness story through three pictures Moses in the wilderness, caught between a rock and a hard place, which is basically the children of Israel leaving Egypt, caught between the Red Sea and Pharaoh's army oasis where they was needing water, and Moses smoked a stone, water turned, come out of it and by faith and that's the hard one, because by faith. By faith is a picture which means that less any man should boast, you just take by faith and put less any man should boast. That's the rest of the script. You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 51:16

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 51:18

Okay, let's any man should boast. And you go way back to Cain and Abel. You say Cain presented a sacrifice and Abel presented a sacrifice. Let's any man should boast. What is the difference? The heart sowing the seed Somebody's trying to get over, somebody ain't being up front. He that comes before the Lord must believe that he is. You must believe him at his word. Anyway, I don't want to get into no sermon here, but if you don't believe that he's able, at some point in time, you're going to have to trust him you're going to have to trust him.

Speaker 2: 52:08

Let me just say one more thing here. Pharaoh he broke him down when Moses had had little issues. He said how am I going to do this, lord? How am I going to do that? Pharaoh had put? First of all, moses went on a basket. They put him in a basket. It was kind of like a comedy thing. He put him in a basket. Parents said he went to Pharaoh's house. Pharaoh was killing up all them kids he raised in Pharaoh's house. Pharaoh was killing up all them kids he raised in Pharaoh's house.

Speaker 2: 52:37

But there came a time it was his season when he didn't like how they were treating the Hebrews. He found out he was a Hebrew. He killed an Egyptian. He hit him in the sand. He threw him out. He went across the desert. He found out there was a burning bush. You know they could have killed that man instantly, but God sent him out there in that desert. He went out there. He met Jesus, god on a burning bush. God sent him back. Oh, they could have killed him instantly on his way back. He's, they could have killed him instantly on his way back. He's letting my people go. That's an amazing thing.

Speaker 2: 53:20

His personal relationship is. We met him in that burning bush, but the burning bush represented something. It represented the burning of him being a Hebrew and an Egyptian, and how can he reconcile that kind of thing? Anyway, what I'm trying to say, there's a personal journey For every individual. It may not be Mine, may be different from yours, but it goes back to Jesus Christ. And once you accept it, then Because that's a you know, the flesh is always beating up on the spirit and they always warring against each other, but once you accept it, then you know, then you know, and so that's always been. That's a Jonah, that's a God man too. He went the wrong way. It's a thing in that Bible where they always went the wrong way, 99% of the time the wrong way. Oh Paul, I don't even know how he got in there. He was killing the Christians. Oh Thomas, lest any man should boast were killing the Christians Old times Lest any man should boast, and then Jesus said.

Speaker 2: 54:37

Jesus said God, how many sheep have you lost? He said no, not one. And those I have, which is not of my fault, then I must pray. So there's hope for all.

Speaker 2: 54:49

But getting back to the book here, it's a little personal space for me and it's a little personal space for me and it's a message for people who are getting married now. You got to realize that today you got dating apps and you got. You may get freddy krueger from that, but freddy krueger could be whatever. But what I'm trying to say is you got date, you got all these kind of things, but it starts off. It's a personal relationship with the lord in which he grow you through your experience, and it ain't no bad guys, it ain't no good guys, it's just sinners. But once he grow you and you know him and you depend on him, even boil down, even boil down then you're ready to be used. And this book and I always say this, I have never not, you know, I've never seen it about even attempted right or paper. Maybe there is somebody, but this book it, it gives a fairy tale, it gives humans, first of all. It gives humans, it gives vegetables human characteristics, because everything he made was good humans and the vegetables it gives humans. It gives vegetables human characteristics and you find out, it all belonged to the Lord. And when Jesus came to the earth he used mustard seeds, wheat tares. He used those things in the garden to teach human beings.

Speaker 2: 56:28

In the New Testament, the tribe of the Levites, they was wondering who going to be the, the button or the rod. God used Joseph. There's some strange writing on the wall. He talked about cows. He talked about. Isn't that something the man of God could interpret? That's a wonderful thing. The earth declares his glory, but man, he's going to take a coin and make it into a bomb by his own wisdom.

Speaker 2: 57:07

So anyway, I get off track there. God put man and woman in the Garden of Eden for a reason Because the Garden of Eden was the perfect place where they could grow and God gave them the opportunity to have the seed of faith added into their hearts. So anyway, I get off on my little tangent there. But it's a wonderful thing to me when you grow and come to understand the Lord yourself and when you get away from them. Dicks, I don't know, you may not be my age, but Dick, jane and Sally, the LMM movies, young and the Restless, everybody kiss at the end of the movie. God is a God of spirituality. Now the world's got its own thing going on. But once you reach a point in your life where you've been through enough and that heart has been pricked and that seed of faith grows in your heart, you got something going on. Your faith eats challenge. We'll focus on him. Yeah, that's wonderful. Faith grows in your heart. You got something going on. You face each challenge with a focus on Him.

Speaker 1: 58:18

Yeah, that's wonderful and I do appreciate your time and going over both of your books. How long have you been writing?

Speaker 2: 58:32

I'm relatively young at writing. This is my second book. I'm still learning the art of writing. If you would ask the editors who edit my books, they wouldn't say not that long. But I write from my heart and the Lord continues to help me. But not really not that long. I only started writing maybe about two or three years and that's fine what I'm trying to get to.

Speaker 1: 59:14

there's always a time. You're never too late until you don't. So it's never too late to start writing your book, working on your degree. Whatever you want to do in life, whatever you want to accomplish in life, you can do it. The thing is to get started with it. It just may help encourage someone else.

Speaker 2: 59:43

But you know where I'm at now. I have 40, maybe about 45 photographs from the okra, and the Lord has blessed me where I have a picture called Unequal Yolk Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers and I have the ox in the hares and I have the buzzard with the eagle and the turtle with the rabbit. He has expanded my understanding beyond just the okra. Sure, I asked the Lord, and when I was going through my troubles I asked him. I didn't really ask him. I think I was just down. I said Lord, and when I was going through my troubles, I asked him. I didn't really ask him, I think I was just down. I said "'Lord, I need to see faith'".

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

And that is when you get boiled down enough in life.

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

What I mean by boiled down, when you're at your lowest, like that woman with the hemorrhage, and she would say something really ridiculous which, in a human sense, I thought it just touched the hem of his garment and she was so not even able to get there to touch it.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

Because when you get to the point where you are at a place where you can't get back from, and I asked the Lord something totally ridiculous and I've been to church a lot of times I say I need to see faith. And I don't know what I was wanting him to do. I don't know what the faith would look like a woman or horse or what but people was telling me have faith, have faith, trust god. And I'm trying to tell these people I need something tangible. And so when I got to that point and that's when he took me back to the garden, back where Mama, back where Daddy, where we were digging sweet potatoes and stuff he showed me something that was relevant to me. It wasn't no Freudian cycle back, it was something that I had seen before and something that I knew in my mind that it wasn't necessarily. It was I'd never seen before that mean, it wasn't impossible. But