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Gentry's Journey
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Gentry's Journey
Death Is Just a Stepping Stone: The Charlena Bray Interview
When tragedy strikes, how do we find meaning in seemingly senseless loss? Charlena Bray's journey provides a powerful answer to this universal question. After becoming a widow at just 26 years old and subsequently experiencing the deaths of her parents and five siblings, Charlena discovered her calling: helping others navigate grief through biblical encouragement.
For 35 years, Charlena has worked with families experiencing loss at the Guiding Light Church. Rather than traditional grief counseling, she offers something distinctly different – a biblically-based approach to finding peace and purpose after devastating loss. Her first book, "To Live, to Die, to Live: Stories of Eternal Connections," compiles 14 remarkable stories that explore the profound question: "Could it be that death is but a stepping stone to life?"
In this deeply moving conversation, Charlena reveals her four-step path to finding "that peace which passes all understanding" – rejoice always, let your gentleness be evident to all, be anxious for nothing, and pray about everything. She shares intimate details of supernatural experiences that many grieving people encounter but often hesitate to discuss, offering validation that these connections with departed loved ones may be more than just imagination.
The discussion takes a fascinating turn when Charlena explains how her search for truth led her to a profound spiritual awakening. Now an Amazon #1 International Bestselling Author with her second book "Wisdom Speaks," she guides others to discover healing by telling their own stories and uncovering their God-given purpose even in life's darkest moments.
Whether you're currently grieving, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the intersection of faith and loss, this conversation offers rare insights into finding light in darkness. Connect with Charlena at BrayBooks@aol.com to learn more about her work or to seek guidance in telling your own story of purpose through pain.
Good evening everyone. Welcome to Gentry's Journey. I am Carolyn Coleman and I have a wonderful guest for you today, mrs Bray. She's going to introduce herself, tell you how we met and talk to us about her project. She's going to give us her background as well. Take it away, ms Bray, all right.
Speaker 2:Ms Carolyn, thank you, thank you, hello to everybody. Shalina Bray, I am a staff person at the Guiding Light Church. I've been here for 35 years and over those 35 years I've probably worked with 97, 98% of the families that have experienced loss. And while I do a lot of different things at the church, that's one that I've been consistent with and that's just a part of my job description. But just dealing with so many families over the years, I have learned so much and my pastor asked me several years ago to write something down. That would be encouraging. I did. It's an unpublished manuscript, but a few years ago I just had the thought why don't you write down some of these stories? And I started doing that in 2020, a little bit in 21,. Laid the project down, picked it back up again in 23,. Had hoped to get this book out by the end of 23,. Actually got it out January 24.
Speaker 2:But my first book project self-published, and we'll talk about that but it's To Live, to Die, to Live Stories of Eternal Connections, and there are 14 stories in that book. I met Carolyn last fall at an expo at the Bessemer Public Library where they invite local authors and that's Alabama authors to come in, put your book, set up a book table, sign books, sell books. So we met each other, chatted, would have shared information, and so I was pleasantly surprised, carolyn, to hear from you a few weeks ago. There's a lot more to that story, but let me just end it here and let you ask me questions. So I'll be specific and questions from others.
Speaker 2:I've just completed a second book project that's on Amazon as an e-book and the paperback should come live on Amazon in the next few days, and that book is Wisdom Speaks. It's a guide to telling your story, discovering your purpose and living the life of your dreams. So we'll talk a little bit more about that, but I guess, in a nutshell, that's my story. I'd say a little bit more about my own experience, my own personal experiences with loss in my family, but I'll say a little bit more about that later as well. So is that good?
Speaker 1:Absolutely it is. We just want to be comfortable. We want you to get out your thoughts and let us know really about your journey into writing, and so are you a grief counselor.
Speaker 2:Counselor is not a good word. I never call myself a grief counselor Working in the church. I assist families when there is death with funeral arrangements or, you know, whatever that might be, however they want that to look Memorial service, cremation might be involved, graveside service, church service, whatever that is but with all of the arrangements connecting the family to the church, I do biblical encouragement with them. But I'm assisting them, I'm encouraging them. Our church, just over the past year, has a grief counseling program. It's a part of a ministry that I do, but I'm not one of the folk that actually works in that council, in that particular part of the ministry work that's here, work that's here. So my spiritual gifts are teaching and administration and I get to use both of them. But I've worked hard at knowing what the Bible has to say about death, about dying, about peace and related topics like that, and that's what I call biblical encouragement, but not so much grief counsel, even though I'm working with people ministering to people, serving people when they are dealing with grief.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, that truly is needed, because when you're grieving your loss, so you need someone with basically a point of stability to help people go through especially the initial grief and the things that they're not thinking about. They're overwhelmed nine times out of 10 with going through losing a loved one, so they do need a steady hand. So that is wonderful that your church offers that or allows you to be that individual to assist them through that. Now, when you said you decided to put your thoughts on paper, what type of thoughts did you put? Did you put down like a strategic plan for the family, or are your book your thoughts? What people go through, the different reactions, because everyone grieves in their own way.
Speaker 2:Yes, way, yes. The first time with thoughts, as I say, was quite a few years ago. My pastor said to me you've learned a lot. Why don't you get something on paper that would be helpful to families? I thought and came up with roughly 25 questions that either I've asked God directly God help me know this or people have asked me. You know, is there life after death? Is there hell? Is there heaven? What is it? What is it? But just a wide variety of questions and I sought to put biblical answers to those questions and I put that in this loose manuscript and I probably did that around 2010 or so and we've used it here at the church ever since. Included in that I put my own story Because over the years, I think people sit in front of me and they think you just don't know what I'm going through.
Speaker 2:You've never experienced anything like this. You just don't know. And then I have an opportunity to share my story, which started when I was 26 years old. After two years of marriage, a courtship dated a guy for three years. We got married, had been married for a couple of years, he went to the doctor and had it in and, at the in the doctor's office, had an instantly fatal heart attack, and my call from a doctor's office where he went to have a regular exam for his work, is that your husband is dead. We need you to meet us at UAB. And, as I say here, here I am a 26-year-old widow and, wow, I go back more recently and think about my oldest brother's death, which had occurred just a few years before that but I was much younger, probably 21, a super traumatic experience. He had been out of the home and all of that. But I started my story with my husband's death and quickly realized that we bury our dead and life moves on.
Speaker 2:For me, it was the end of the school year. I was teaching math at Winona High School at the time and I did not go back to school because we had the funeral. My folk closed out my at UAB that summer. It was in the works and so, even though I was burying my husband, probably the last Saturday in May of that year, if I ever needed to do anything, I needed to do what I was doing that summer. So two, three weeks later, I enrolled in school at UAB.
Speaker 2:The conversations were I was wearing rings, of course it was, are you married? And I would say, well, I was. And then the question of people I'm meeting for the first time would say something like oh you know, who is your husband, or something, something, something I said, well, I was married. And I, over time, began to really hesitate with my responses because of what the response, what the feedback I would get from those.
Speaker 2:But people were crying on my shoulder because I would tell them my husband died and they would say when? And I would say three weeks ago, a month ago, a month ago, and it was, oh, I am so sorry. And then, more often than not, I was talking to women and many of them would start to cry and I was consoling them instead of them consoling me. So that that was an interesting experience caused me to take my rings off before summer school was over, because it was just tough explaining that to people, even though it seemed to me that it was tougher for them to receive it. Starting school that year I had an advisor at UAB, a new professor who had studied with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. I don't know if you know her.
Speaker 1:I've heard of her.
Speaker 2:I have. I've heard of her. She's a guru on deaf and dying, international reputation. Well, my professor at UAB had studied with her and that was a part of the reason they brought her in. I was, let's see, I was working on a degree, started on a degree program in guidance and counseling public school guidance and counseling but here I am connected with a woman who has studied with a grief expert. Just weeks after my husband died, I took one of her classes on human development. But it was amazing to me and how God takes us down our path. I've always been in church. I was in a very small Baptist church, wasn't getting a lot of teaching. You know we got a lot of preaching, the hooping, the hollering, the singing, all of that. So I just didn't know a lot. But I get connected with this woman and I'm thinking how, wow, our footsteps are ordered by the Lord.
Speaker 2:But very quickly back through my journey with death. Before that year was over, my 84 year old grandmother passed and my grandmother raised me. My mom and dad had me out. My mom brought three children into a marriage. My dad had no children. His wife and first child died in childbirth. He and my mom got married. I was the first of six children that they had together, and I could only imagine his concern with a newborn having some health issue. And my grandmother said give me this child, I'm going to nurse her back to health. And when I left my grandmother's house, it was 16 years later. After I graduated from high school, though, I spent a lot of time with my family and other siblings that were coming along.
Speaker 2:But fast forward just a few years, our mom was diagnosed with brain tumor. Doctors said it probably wasn't cancerous. They opened up her head. It was cancerous. The cancer had spread. She died six months later. We buried her the week leading up to Mother's Day, and for me, death was it was a blessing from the Lord because she suffered greatly. My dad said to me and the others of us and we're adult children now he said your mom's a strong woman. I could never suffer like that. I just want to. I just want God when it's time to go, I just want him to call me home. I just want to lay down and go to sleep and just not wake up.
Speaker 2:Well, six weeks later, he and a sister and her husband were traveling to Detroit. He was driving. There was a single car accident. My dad had a heart attack driving but car left the road, the interstate, at a high rate of speed, flipped over five times, landed upside down. My dad was thrown from the car. He broke his neck. He had a broken neck and he suffered what would have been a fatal heart attack. The autopsy report couldn't say which came first. I'm fairly confident that the heart attack caused the accident.
Speaker 2:My sister and her husband climbed out of an upside down car that had flipped over five times with nary a scratch. I'm learning. There is a God. There is a God. They returned back to Birmingham and while I talked with her several times every day, my sister was mentally and emotionally sound. You know she wasn't emotionally scarred by that. So we buried my father the week leading up to Father's Day. This was six weeks after our mom had died.
Speaker 2:So now I've lost husband and I'm dealing with this and I'm having to comfort my family. I'm taking charge and making arrangements and helping everybody else and being at a strange place of peace. And I didn't know God, like I know God today. But I was just kind of amazed as I processed through that my folk had nine children. Today I have buried five of my sisters and brothers. There are four of us left, and I am the oldest of the four. An older sister died just a few years ago, in 2018. Her 56-year-old daughter had to come live with me and she did. She had congestive heart failure and some other issues, and she died a year and a half later, in 2019.
Speaker 2:And so I'm working with families at church. I'm dealing with all of this. I'm working with families at church. I'm dealing with all of this and I am amazed at what God is doing with me and how he is enabling me to help others, use the administration gift, use the teaching gift and work through it. And I've come to know over the years a measure of peace, that that peace that passes all understanding. I have firsthand experience with that, but I knew I needed to write these things down, and in 2020.
Speaker 2:I was getting ready to finish a book, covid. I work, I work. I a full-time staff here at the church. I didn't want to stay at home. I could have worked from home, but I just came to work every day. There were three or five of us who came every day. Anyway, big church, you know, we don't have to be on top of each other at all, but we worked.
Speaker 2:But I thought that I was going to work on the other book and I don't know, mid 2020, July, august I just sensed the Lord saying you need to write the stories You've been telling people. You were going to take their story and get it down and it's time for you to do that. So I started gathering stories from people. I knew my own story would be there and I worked on that all into 2021, probably midway 2021. I thought if I get 12 stories I'll publish, I'll go to print with this. I didn't have 12 stories by then. I probably had six or seven.
Speaker 2:I laid the project down again because things picked up at church the things that we were doing, and I just laid it down and I didn't pick it up at all in 2022. But in 2023, I made a New Year's resolution that I was going to publish that book before the year was over. So I picked it up and started working with it again and it was fully written by the end of the year. I was formatting and all of that myself and I got stuck with how to do those things. I'm learning all of this stuff. So I actually got it published.
Speaker 2:I think it came out the 19th of January of 24. But that was the start of it and there are 14 stories in that book and so I'm surprised that a year later I've got a second book ready and all of it not the book that's out there but I've been planning to finish for years is still sitting out there, because my second book is more helpful, is more helpful, and I believe that as we tell our stories, as we write our stories, that there's healing in that and I am encouraging people and I've made a guide written, this guide to say to you in processing through your own grief, why don't you write your story down? Why don't you tell your story? I'll help you write it, but get it down. I think you'll be surprised at what you will get out of it. I've learned my purpose in life through dealing with the loss of my own immediate family members.
Speaker 1:Yes, you have had a great deal of loss. When I was at Sanford I took this course Deaf and Dying. That's how I came to know the name Elizabeth Cooper Ross, because we did study from her work. But the instructor was meant to teach that class. She was her voice. Her tone was soft but steady. It was. She was just meant to teach. I can see her face now.
Speaker 1:There were more students in that class that I thought would be in the class and we talked about the stages of grief and she had us to write our own obituary. Different speakers came in, someone from John Rideout's attorney. You know it just was a very believe it or not, for lack of a better term a very fulfilling class. It brought a lot I think a lot of the students. As we looked around at each other, we were able to express how we felt about personal grief and get that out. So it was really a very good class. Think of it fondly Now. Why that one class and not the rest of them? But you know it helps. It helps when you can talk about it, if you have had some experiences. It helps to be able to speak with people who have gone through a type of loss. And it also talked about delayed grief, because sometimes, like you said, I had to do this, I had to get this ready. The instructor said I think she might have been working on her dissertation and had lost a relative, and how she did not grieve until after that dissertation because you know it's time sensitive, it has to be done. And she didn't think about it until after it was done and when she got home one night let's say a week or so or even a month after she completed the dissertation, she just went to squalling and she was not able to grieve at that time. So that's when I learned the term delayed grief.
Speaker 1:A lot of times I think we take especially if we're not affected by things, we take a lot of things for granted. Oh, you know they'll be okay. Yeah, they will eventually be okay. But everyone, you can't tell a person when to grieve, how to grieve, you know, as long as they're doing it in a healthy fashion. But you can't speed up their grief process, because what I learned if you miss a step you got to go back. So you know we have to stay in sort of like a sequence and it's not a theory. If you miss a step you will go back because you have not completely grieved is what I remember from that class.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've studied, I've read Elizabeth Kubrick Ross's writings. I sense a few missing pieces in all of that. And so, as I talk with people and help their understanding and I'm talking with pretty much Christians, people who are part of the church I do have conversations with some people who are not but I entitled my first book To Live, to Die, to Live, and that's a title, because I'd written the book. The book was finished and then I'm asking God what's the title of this book going to be? And it was to be and it was. It's that and it's to help people understand Christians understand that there's life after death. And over the years I've become amazed at how much the scriptures say to us about death. It's just not put together in one place like, okay, you can go to this particular book and you can read this and that's everything you need. So you're going to get all your understanding from, not from there. It's not presented to us in that fashion. You know, god really does call us to study, so we have to get in and I find many people helping themselves work through the grief process as they learn the truth, and the truth, the operative word is truth. Let me see if I can say this really fast because over the years, in my search for knowing God, understanding the Bible, you know, wanting to know something, some years ago I was enrolled in a doctoral program at the University of Alabama administration and higher ed and I was getting toward the end of the program and I work a full time job in Birmingham driving down the highway to Tuscaloosa to take four classes.
Speaker 2:Back then it was established residency, which was for two semesters of 12 hours, which was four classes back to back. So I had a class Issues in Higher Ed and this professor, the first three or four weeks of class we had a reading list with 17 books on it and he would tell us each week what to read in preparation for the next week. So he said to us on a week, maybe third week of class or fourth week, and he said I want y'all to read these three books. As I had read my three books, I was ready, I had some. We drove, you know, driving some of us driving down from Birmingham together and we talked about it and I said, well, I've read my books and I got a feeling he's going to call on me today. Well, sure enough, class started. Denny Chimes, go off. It's two o'clock in the afternoon and he said, charlene and I'm waiting for him to ask me the same question he's asked people the three weeks before that, each of those three weeks, what have you been reading? Or something about the reading. But he flipped the script on me and he said, charlene, what is truth? What is the truth? And I couldn't answer.
Speaker 2:In undergraduate I have a major, a minor in math. I was a math science person and I knew about, you know, there were a few laws, because laws hold true 100% of the time and there are not a lot of those Theorems, axioms, all of those other mathematical terms. None of them hold true 100% of the time, so they can't be true. I couldn't answer in that class and there were about 12 of us in the class. I could not answer, I could not explain what truth was. And so he said y'all help her. And there were a couple of guys in the class and each one tried and they couldn't explain what truth was either. So the professor said I tell y'all what. Go home, find out what truth is. Class met one day a week. When you come back next week, I'm going to give you a test booklet and let you tell me what truth is.
Speaker 2:And I came back to Birmingham Dictionaries, encyclopedias, philosophers. I go to the library. This was some years ago, when everything's not at your fingertips, so you want something in the library. You got to physically go to the library. It worked my full-time job. And I was struggling to find out. Plato, aristotle, socrates, I mean, you know others, that's well-known name.
Speaker 2:I couldn't get a handle on what truth was and I don't know how I came across a scripture. I came across a scripture. I came across initially three, and I can't remember which one came first. One was John 17,. 17, where Jesus is praying and he says Father, your word is true. In the gospel, according to John, jesus says I am the way, the truth, I am the truth, I'm the way, the truth and I am the truth. And then a third one, and I remember in the eighth chapter, john Jesus says you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. And then there was a fourth one, over in John's, one of his letters, where he says a spirit is a truth. And I began to ponder that what is that saying?
Speaker 2:And when I went back to class the following week, all I could do in my blue book was write about my experience, my discovery, and here's what the scriptures say. And I thought they're going to put me out of school for this, but I didn't have anything else to write. And then I had to wait for another week for the professor to come back and bring the books back. And when he came back I opened my booklet and I had an A plus plus plus and a very positive comment from him. Now, the comment had not been positive, I'm not sure where I would have gone.
Speaker 2:What I did clearly realize is that God was taking me somewhere, because I was in my own search. I knew I wasn't learning what I needed to learn in church. As I'm searching, I really want to know. I want to know God, I want to know the Bible, I want to know what truth is. And I just set out on a journey with the Lord about truth and found some amazing things over the next year.
Speaker 2:And then I wound up changing churches and really I need to get somewhere where the scriptures are actually taught. So I know that people need to know the truth and when we have these experiences in life being lost, you know, sometimes death is absolutely traumatic. You know, when your child is killed, somebody's killed by gunfire, domestic violence I mean accidents, drownings, fires. I just had a friend who lost four family members. I just had a friend who lost four family members a sister and her three grandchildren in a house fire, and the only thing that can be satisfying to them, I'm convinced, is the truth, and the only real truth is in the word of God, and so my experiences, my work, everything is tailored toward that.
Speaker 1:So I seek to help people know the truth. Amen, amen. I mean, what else can you say to that? Because when you ask the question, I am pondering Some of the simplest words. We just can't define. We think we know it, but we don't.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So that was great. I mean, that was excellent. That's why you got your A plus was great.
Speaker 2:I mean that was excellent. That's why you got your A plus. I mean I was surprised. I mean you know, all professors aren't Christians and all of that. But I was pleasantly surprised. But, more importantly, god was taking me somewhere.
Speaker 2:I was wrapping up that doctoral program and I had taken 90 hours of coursework, never completed it. But I was going down another road. I was going down a road where God was just kind of put me aside and was teaching me the word of God. I went through the study of scripture in my home, go work all day and I was executive director of an agency, had staff spread out across the state of Alabama, but I was on. I was on a journey with God.
Speaker 2:And then out of that journey came my quitting my job and starting a business and which I ran full time for 14 years, had staff, people, did a bunch of stuff, but it was learning. It was learning. There were two or three scriptures I knew like one of them was I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me, and I really dwelt on that. And then I knew I had to talk before people and I'd get so nervous and so unnerved and my voice would squeak and I learned God hadn't given me a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, of love and of a sound mind, and just getting in there.
Speaker 2:And then, like I say, you know, some years later, ok, what's this thing about death? Wait, wait, wait a minute. God Elizabeth Kubler-Ross has a great program, a wonderful program. God has an even better one, and so you know, like I said, the first book is just those stories, but making the point that there is life after death. I autographed books and one of the questions that I put in the book and the question didn't get my attention until after I'd written and published the book then the question got my attention, but it was a question I had. Could it be, could it be, that death is but a stepping stone to life?
Speaker 1:okay, death is but a stepping stone to life, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's see where you're going. Okay To live, to die, to live. We live in this earth realm and then we're going to die in this earth realm. But the scriptures give us that immediately we take that last breath in the earth realm, we are transported to the kingdom of our father and we make the choice John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him would not perish but would have everlasting life Some translations eternal life. And just beginning to go down that road. And the scriptures talk much about everlasting life, eternal life.
Speaker 2:You know the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus had little in this life. The rich man had everything. Lazarus knew Jesus and immediately stepped over into eternal life. The rich man didn't know Jesus that's not the confession he made and he immediately took that last breath and stepped into hell and he was enabled to look into heaven. But you know, in heaven you can't look into hell. And people need to know that. Because if, if death is a stepping stone to life, then we got to make one choice in this earth realm at least one. We got to choose. We got to choose If we want to spend eternity with God. We have to make the choice and the choice is belief in the heart and confession with the mouth that Jesus is Lord. We call it being saved. We make the choice. If we don't make that choice, then we wind up like that rich man does in that parable.
Speaker 2:And I get to talk about these things in this book. Let's see if I get up in front of my camera. Yeah, to Live, to Die To Live Stories of Eternal Connections. But these are stories where people that sometimes people took you know, people experience a little bit of heaven. I've got one story in the book of a young woman who still lives and she's not writing about loss, she's writing about an experience she had. She had a hardcore that's not what they call it COVID and spent weeks on a ventilator in intensive care. Spent weeks on a ventilator in intensive care, but she had an experience. She had a supernatural experience and I've now heard so many stories. I've heard so many of those.
Speaker 2:A lot of times we dismiss stuff and I don't know how people or very common something is that somebody's dying, like with my mother, and she was comatose, hadn't spoken, I hadn't spoken the words and that was all she was able to do. But she was looking up in the corner of the room and then she was looking up. Each one of us my dad, my other siblings at different times, heard her calling out the names. It's like she was looking at somebody who had already died her oldest son, her parents, her mother-in-law and she was calling. She was calling those names and she couldn't even talk.
Speaker 2:And you know how sometimes you don't even want to tell people about that and sometimes we think our people are hallucinating. You know we use terms like that to describe that, but I'm convinced that it's real, that God lets them take a look-see. And it's so many of those. There are just so many of those. So I want to help people know the truth. When you take that last breath, or when our loved one takes that last breath, where are they going? I've got some responsibility for making sure that all my loved ones who are now living that I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that Jesus is their Lord, because he says we are going to live together eternally.
Speaker 1:So, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:It is amazing. And you know, I'm a nurse by profession. So, yes, I've heard a lot, as people are. Some people want to transition earlier than what God has for them and they tell you a lot. I'm with you.
Speaker 1:I haven't said that they were hallucinating, because the eyes are the windows to the soul. When a person looks at you, you can basically tell if they are confused or not, Just because you don't understand what they're saying, why they're saying it. Because I've asked you know, what are you trying to tell me? What is it you want me to know? And you know. And sometimes they be grasping with their hands and arms, literally wanting to go up, to go up. But they one particular. She just kept saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And so the nurse that was assisting me, she said what is she sorry for? I said, baby, we'll never know. Come on, you know we'll never know what she's sorry for, but she's sorry for something and she is basically letting that out. I think maybe somewhere. She did not say that she was sorry. She's saying it at this point in time. We'll never know. But one thing for sure I try to open up the atmosphere where they are free to say that they're soft or to express themselves. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Absolutely, Exam, and I paid attention and I've had the experience of dealing with, with, with hospice, with a loved one and some of the stories that that that they tell. But, like I say in in, in, in, in this book it is, the stories are amazing. The stories are amazing and what it does, both from what families or an individual recognizes is want to tell my story. And, yes, and what I had to learn is that there were many people who I wrote most of the stories. I got them through interviews because a lot of people are very uncomfortable with saying I'm going to sit down and write this, so I interview them, you tell me your story and let's get these stories in writing.
Speaker 2:But the comfort, sometimes the peace that people get from that and, as I say, all along the way, I am providing for them biblical encouragement, because I said God, help me understand. I don't want to sit here and talk to people. I can't talk to people using my own words. I've got to use your words and you got to help me know what to say. But of course, I didn't realize. I've got to know your words, I got to get in that scripture and find out what you are saying.
Speaker 1:Now, that's true. You know it goes back to the saying I can't. You can't tell it the way I can tell it. You know what God has done for me and that is so true. You can hear people give their testimony and it's powerful and you try to repeat it. I mean you don't have that same reaction that they have. You can tell it, but it won't resonate with people as much as the original person who has experienced that would tell it.
Speaker 1:I mean you can try as hard as you might and you'd be like, oh, I wish I was there to hear it, you know, to really hear what happened. But you know we have to. I mean, sure, we're going to repeat things, you know, but in order to hear it from that individual is more, much more for lack of a better term in your face type thing. You know it resonates with you. You know it kind of goes over. It's a wake up call. Oh, absolutely. You have an understanding, as they say, we're understanding better by and by. But you have more of an understanding and more of an appreciation good, bad or indifferent. You have more of an appreciation for either your belief system or what they are going through.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. I believe that a couple of things that come out of these experiences. One is peace. It's that peace and I think I mentioned this earlier that peace that Paul writes about in Philippians 4, chapter, verse 7. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus. For years, I've sat here in my office or wherever I might have been, sometimes in a family's home and I was sharing that scripture and I said God has a promise that his peace will place a guard around your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus.
Speaker 2:I wrote a blog about this several years ago I think it was 2014, I think and in my last book on Wisdom Speaks the Guide for Telling your Story, discovering your Purpose and Living the Life of your dreams, I share something, because I did this for a few years and then I realized I needed something more than that scripture. You know you're in a conversation with somebody, you're biblically encouraging them, you're ministering to them and you're telling them that God promises this to you, and I said God, I think I'm at a place. I need to tell them a little bit more. What can I add to that? And I believe my listeners are ready to hear more. And God just led me into the passage of scripture, philippians, fourth chapter, and I started reading, like if you're reading in a Bible up the page, but looking up and what I had missed, because it got all the way back up to verse four, that there really are four steps right there and in my first, going back at this, I skipped over. I mean I read past step, condition number four, number three, number two, but I got to number one, the fourth chapter. Verse four, before you get to the promise in verse seven says rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again rejoice. And then there are three more conditions again rejoice. And then there are three more conditions. But God is telling me you need to.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting here with people they hadn't even buried the loved one, quite possibly, and you're telling me to tell them to rejoice, to rejoice in the Lord always. And I wrestled with God about that. How can I tell somebody and their child just got murdered? How can I tell them to rejoice? And you're saying that they should rejoice always, maybe later, but not now. And so in my wrestle with God, he and I'm saying I don't understand this. How can I do this and what I got back was this is my path to peace, to that peace which passes all understanding. This is the journey, this is the road they got to walk down, and it starts with rejoice in the Lord always. And I've come to realize how, in actuality, we do a portion of it. We just go back and forth with it.
Speaker 2:You know it could be the day of death, the day of the funeral or after the funeral or somewhere in between that you're getting the day of death, the day of the funeral or after the funeral or somewhere in between. That You're getting the obituary prepared. You're doing those things and you're sitting with family and y'all are looking at pictures and y'all are telling stories. Y'all are remembering old times and you are so happy, everybody's laughing. You know, remember when Big Mama said this and remember when she did this and when she. You know when she beat me or whatever it was and she. But we're remembering and we find we find peace in doing that.
Speaker 2:But but it's really all four of those conditions and and they are amazing that first one is rejoice. The second one is let your gentleness be, let me see, I'm not looking at it Rejoice in the Lord, always. I will say it again rejoice, yeah. Let your gentleness be evident to all. And when my pastor has ministered that scripture over the years, he said just be kind and gentle to everybody, but remember it's always for rejoicing and it is be. Let your gentleness be evident to all, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, even the person who took your loved one's life, it's everybody. That third condition is let's see, let your gentleness be evident to all. Be anxious for nothing. Some translations say do not worry about anything, always. What is anything? Everything Okay. And the fourth one is pray about everything.
Speaker 2:And so God puts those superlatives right there, it's for them. And then he presents this amazing promise and the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will put a God around your heart and your mind, which is that part of our soul. And it's like, if you're going to tell people the truth, you're going to have to tell them the whole truth. And, yes, you can sit up and tell people, remind them, rejoice in the lord, always, always. Okay, god, I got you, I got you. I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. And to hear stories of where people I decided to put that into practice. I decided to memorize that scripture.
Speaker 2:And when, unbearable pain, you know that grief that make you want to just stay in the bed and not get up, not open the curtains or the blinds, don't want to go to work, don't want to talk to anybody, don't want to eat, when that comes in, oh god, I'm gonna do what you say. You just say it and I'm gonna do this. And and you it's amazing you start saying it. Put God in remembrance of his word, just keep saying it and you get there. And you don't have to go back. You might, but you also know the way out. This is a message that God has said has entrusted me to get in the hands of as many people as I can, and that's that's. That's what I'm about now.
Speaker 1:That's great. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, the interview has been so rewarding. Now, where can people find your books?
Speaker 2:They are both on Amazon. To Live, to Die To Live has been. Let's see. Yeah, doesn't like that, doesn't like this backdrop. It's on Amazon, it is a paperback, paperback and round number is $15. It is the Kindle e-book. It's on Amazon as an e-book and it's also published. I published it as an audio book as well. So whichever format you're interested in, the book is available. And then, certainly, as we met, I sell books but they're all the same price.
Speaker 2:The second and I don't know if this one's going to work at all because it's so light. The second book, wisdom Speaks the Guide to Telling your Story, discovering your Purpose and Living the spine. It's a very small book. It's an 80-page book, so it's a very small spine, but I want text on it and Amazon says that they'll put text on it. I always have to get it the right size, so we've been going back and forth with that for two or three weeks now. I'm hopeful that what I uploaded this morning will be satisfactory and once it gets uploaded it'll be released in two or three days. So it'll be. I'm not going to do it as an audio book, but it'll be available both as an ebook and as a paperback book.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry do you have a website?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, do you have a website? Yes, and it's not the best website in the world. People can get in touch with me. I'd say just take my Bray Books one word Bray B-R-A-Y Books at AOLcom. Okay, that is a way of contacting me. And then my Facebook page, charlena Bray. I've got information on my YouTube page again, charlena Bray, so I'm easily readily findable and I am just beginning. I'm becoming available to help people in writing their stories, in telling their stories, so I'm available to do that, but your best contact is bravebooksataolcom.
Speaker 1:Okay, bravebooksataolcom. Now, when we were speaking initially, you told me you were number one bestselling author. Yes, how could I forget that? Yeah, how could you forget that? That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 2:How could I forget that? Absolutely, absolutely. Let me see if I can just get this. I'm trying to get it in front of the camera. Then it causes me to go away. Okay, I'm not Working with, I'm on my way to becoming a coach, but working with a coach is before I even wrote the book.
Speaker 2:I wrote a description of the book, put it up on Amazon on December 13th of 2024. We chose that as a day, and Amazon has bunches of categories that you can put books in, put the book in several categories and went after sales, because you become a best-selling author, a book a best-selling book by the number of sales on a given day. Amazon keeps up with this day after day after day. So the 24-hour period that we call Friday, december 13th of 2024, I sold this book on Amazon for 99 cents and I encouraged my friends to buy this e-book and I had enough friends to purchase that I became the best-selling author in six different categories.
Speaker 2:It's a forever title. Amazon doesn't take it away. It was my title for that day. As I say, in six different categories, you get it in one category you got it, doesn't have to be six. So yeah, so that's given me recognition, this book as a bestselling book and Charlie Debray as an Amazon number one, amazon international number one bestselling author this book. I saw more books in those particular categories than anybody in the world did on Friday December 13th.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful, congratulations. Now give us the name of that particular book again Wisdom.
Speaker 2:Speaks, wisdom Speaks. Yeah, and it's just out there Wisdom Speaks. The dot is. It is a guide to telling your story, discovering your purpose and living the life of your dreams, because in telling your story, I am submitting to people and I believe that's what God is doing, is helping you if you aren't clear on your purpose, and sometimes your purpose changes and it may change as you're going down that, taking that journey with the loss of somebody near and dear to you.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and the same thing happens, even if it's not the loss of a loved one, it may be some other loss. Because in the Wisdom Speaks book I tell the story of Nehemiah, and while he didn't necessarily lose a loved one, his loss was what was going on in his homeland, in Jerusalem, and his brother and some other folk went to Jerusalem, but he was. This was after the, the captivity, the Babylon, the Babylonian captivity, and you know, when Babylon came in Nebuchadnezzar and just burned stuff down, took all the articles out. Well, the people have gone back. The 70 years have passed. Uh, nehemiemiah was probably, had probably never even been in Israel, in Jerusalem, because he was probably born in captivity.
Speaker 2:But what he heard is that Jerusalem, the people around in Israel, were in big trouble, that they were in dire straits trouble, that they were in dire straits. The scripture said the gates, the walls around the temple, and the temple had been rebuilt, the walls around the temple were broken down, had been burned and broken down, and the gates had been destroyed, those 12 gates that we think about. And Nehemiah cried and moaned over that. He was cut there to the king. He was 900 miles away, but he knew that he had to do something and that cut there to the king of Susa, went to Jerusalem, stayed 12 years before he went back, and he didn't simply restore the rebuild the wall that he had tolist the help of the people and restore those gates. He restored the villages and towns around Jerusalem, changed the lives of the people, became their governor.
Speaker 2:At a point In his loss he found his purpose, and his purpose in life was not to be the cup bearer to the king of Babylon, then Persia, and he was in Susa. That was that capital in Persia. But that wasn't what God intended him to do and he stepped up to the plate and stepped out and his life is amazing and he wrote his own story. That's where we get the book of Nehemiah from. I think. 13 chapters, an amazing read. Now, how many people have heard a sermon preached about Nehemiah, have you?
Speaker 1:Can't say right off, but I know I have. I mean, when you go to Sunday school you're definitely going to read about. You know, nehemiah yeah, you know, but a sermon I can't say right off but and if you don't go to Sunday school, you know, like I said, that's where I got it from.
Speaker 1:You know, I still get my contemporaries every year, but it's just that Sunday school is important. It is important. I know a lot of people get away from it, but you know, it's kind of what I grew up on and so I have enjoyed it over the years and that's why I still get my contemporaries, so I can kind of keep up with what's going on, you know, with that study part. Well, miss Bray, miss Charlene Bray, I just have truly enjoyed this time that we've had with you Such a wealth of knowledge and your willingness to share your gifts and your knowledge with people. And you just break it down so well. Now let me ask this one last question. You're a number one bestselling author. Yes, that is a huge accomplishment. International let's not leave that word out International bestselling author. And you help the wounded. You help the wounded. Both accomplishments are great. And if you had not started at the age of 26 with this loss, major loss in your life, and walk through knowing that God was on your side, where do you think you would be?
Speaker 2:oh, I don't know. And, carolyn, you know, I kind of don't care to know, I just I don't know, I don't know. I know that God has a road for us to go down, absolutely that's the answer I wanted.
Speaker 2:You know, and I mentioned this last year, it was my birthday time and you know Facebook, you know you put your age out there. I'm grateful to God and I'm very grateful for the years of life that God has given me. But I kind of didn't want to do the age thing and so I said, okay, I'm going to do it differently. And I said I wonder how old I am in days. And so I just asked Siri and she told me and it was twenty eight thousand something on April 11th, which, which is my birthday. And so I put on Facebook I am thankful to God that I have lived 28,000, whatever that number of days was and I got so much feedback, that's all. I just put it on a box with a color I think. I put it on a black square and white writing and I put it out there. There, about a month later, I was asked to do a eulogy for one of our church members who had been out of church for a year. We didn't even know how sick she had been and her family asked they just wanted to know if we got in life. They didn't really know us and I said I knew her and I said, if you'd like I'd be willing to do it. I said, okay, god, what am I going to give this message about? And what is this eulogy going to be? And I thought about the day. So I checked to see how old she was and she was 60-something in years.
Speaker 2:But I went to the scripture, psalms 139. But I went to the scripture, psalms 139. In Psalms 139, I'm looking for it All the days. Verses 13 through 16,. David writes all the days ordained for me were written in your book before the first one came to be. All the days of your life, of my life, were written in your book before the first one came to be. And it put proof on. You know, I was saying God knows the end from the beginning. He knows it all, and that we were with God in the beginning, that everything God was going to create, he created it in the beginning. He's not creating stuff today. He doesn't have to. He created everything. That's true. And that we were in that secret place, and Psalms 139 talks about that. Moses talks about that in Psalm 90. But we were. We were in that secret place and then it was our time to come and God knew exactly and I just like the word he knew the days. He knew the days and so he has orchestrated that, he has planned all of that and that's introductory in the Wisdom Speaks book, just getting people.
Speaker 2:Let's think about this. Let's take yes and Eccleslesiastes 3-1. There's a time for everything, a season for every activity, you know, and the first one of a time to be born and a time to die. It's a time for god is our, god is ordained. We don't know it. It's kind of good he doesn't tell us true. True, I mean, you know we'd be in big trouble if he told us, but he doesn't. So we live, and as we seek to know that truth and live life to the fullest, but to walk in our purpose and purpose in the church world, holy Spirit, it's out there now. This is a season. It's being talked about in lots of different places, lots of different churches around the world, around the US, just right here, but also outside of churches as well. But that there's a purpose, that we have a purpose that we need to figure out what it is.
Speaker 1:Now, that's very true. We need to figure out what it is, because I have this saying you need to seek the Lord instead of bouncing around from one wall to the next, because you're just like that mouse in that box and you're just going from one side to the next. And just figure it out. You know and I'm not saying it in a demeaning way, but I said about myself, I said I need to stop bouncing off this wall. And, Lord, what is it you would have me to do? You know people say one thing. You know your heart says another. You know your common sense says this or your non-common sense says that. You know you just, hey, be still. You know, be still. You have to be still and know and go to God and ask him what is it you would have me to do? I've had sometimes. I've talked with my students about it, I've talked with my kids about it, I've talked with my patients about it. You need to ask God. What is it he would have you to do, and then you will get some peace. One patient and I'm going to let you go, I'm not going to keep you all night.
Speaker 1:Every morning he woke up, he was angry, and so it's all the nurses, anybody who went in his room. So he is such a grump, he is so grumpy, he's so grumpy. And so I had to go in there and assess him and do some things with him. He was just short, he wasn't rude, but he was short, you know, with his answers. And so I started going in in the morning trying to figure him out. And so one day I said okay, rise and shine, let's open up these blinds and let a little sunshine in. You just have to do some notes. And that's what he tells me. So the second day I did the same thing, and the third day I asked him are you upset because the Lord woke you up this morning? And he looked at me. Let me tell you this You're not going anywhere until God gets ready for you. It's just I have noticed that every morning you look out and you look around to see where you are. He doesn't say anything. And I said are you just angry that you woke up this morning? He wouldn't answer. But you know, I already had my answer and I really felt for him. And, as I say, you know you're not going anywhere until God gets ready. He's not the first person I've told that to the first patient I've told that to, because someone be like, hurry up, God, hurry up, I'm ready, I'm ready. And you can look at them and say but he's not ready for you, it's not your time, it's not your time. You're not going anywhere until he gets ready for you time. You're not going anywhere until he gets ready for you. So to encounter him, I suggest be thankful.
Speaker 1:You still have the activities of your limbs, you're alert, you're oriented. I mean you really seem to be a healthy individual side for being in the hospital. I said so make the most of the rest of your days. And usually you know, when people really don't want to hear what I have to say, they just tell me oh, gone on, a little missy, especially when I was younger. Gone on, a little missy, you know. But he looked at me. He still didn't acknowledge what I was saying, but he heard everything I said because, like I said, he was alert and oriented. I was saying, but he heard everything I said because, like I said, he was alert and oriented.
Speaker 1:But we don't know what some people go through because they're not going to say anything about it. But that just sticks with me. He was just angry every morning that he woke up. You know, maybe it's some regrets in some business practices, some relationships you know, it can be a multiplicity of things but just some regrets I think he had, you know. But he left there and the next morning or two he wasn't as grumpy. He was not as grumpy, you know, and so I was like you stay here long enough, I'm gonna give a smile or something out of you, you know, and he'd be like just wave me off. But you know, that was sometimes. People just need a release and they need to feel as though they are valued and that some people sincerely, you know, want them to be around.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So that's basically it. If you would just introduce yourself one more time, tell us where we can find you, and then we're going to close out. This has been an incredible evening. Thank you for coming on Gentry's Journey and sharing yourself with us.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for inviting me and having me as a part of Gentry's Journey. Did you say yes? Yes, gentry's Journey. I'm Charlena Bray and I am proud of thankful to God. Grateful to God for their recent designation as an Amazon internationally certified number one bestselling author. And it's for my second book, wisdom Speaks, a guide to telling your story, discovering your purpose and living the life of your dreams.
Speaker 2:Charlene O'Bray, I have a title here at the Guiding Light Church, as minister would say to you just stay mindful that you can do all things through Christ, who strengthens you. I'm beginning to wear the title Coach Charlene. I'm beginning to wear the title Coach Charlena, and Coach Charlena is saying to you if you're interested in telling your story or writing your story, I'd love to hear from you and be supportive to you in any way that I can. You can get in touch with me at Bray Books Bray B-R-A-Y Books with an S at AOLcom. Both of my books can be found on Amazon the Wisdom Speaks book as an e-book and as a paperback, and my first book, published last year, to Live, to Die To Live Stories of Eternal Connections, also available on Amazon as an e-book, as a paperback and as an audio book. I'm a member, a minister and an elder at the Guiding Light Church here in Birmingham. Thanks again, carolyn, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Thank you. You have a wonderful evening and you do the same. All right, god bless you. Thank you. You have a wonderful evening and you do the same. All right, god bless you, god bless you.