Better Together - A Man's Perspective!
This podcast will feature Men from all walk's of life that have been married for at least 10 years that have a story to tell about overcoming, perseverance and success in their life, business and marriage! The focus will be to highlight why despite challenges we all have determined its better with our life partners together than apart!
Better Together - A Man's Perspective!
Episode # 1 - 5/13/2023 - Featuring my very good friend and my Podcast mentor Christopher Massey!
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This podcast will feature Men from all walks of life that have been married for at least 5-10 years that have a story to tell about overcoming, perseverance and success in their life, business and marriage! The focus will be to highlight why despite challenges we all have determined its better with our life partners together than apart!
Sponsored by Redemption! Grace Extended & The Real Price of Success. Find it on Amazon or www.thebartbutlerstory.com. Proceeds to benefit my scholarship at my alma mater Virginia Tech.
Welcome to the Better Together from a Man's Perspective podcast with your host, serial entrepreneur, electrophist, and international best-selling author, Mark Butler, where we discuss faith, marriage, family, and business, along with today's relevant news. We also share practical tips from his book, Redemption, the real price of success, and show you how to learn, overcome, acquire, and most importantly, never ever give up. So if you're ready to be part of this life's journey, then here we go. Better Together is sponsored by Redemption, price extended, and the real price of success. Buy it on Amazon or direct at www.thebartbutlerstory.com. Here's your host, Bart Butler.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Better Together, a man's perspective. This is my very first show, my very first podcast ever. So uh bear with us as we uh work this out. Um, but uh we hope that uh you'll enjoy this show and the ones to follow, and um that you'll learn a few things, have some fun. I have a special guest today, Mr. Christopher Massey, who was uh a great friend from back uh you know for quite a while and uh from our old church. And uh we're gonna get into it. Uh um Chris, uh you want to introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um hello everybody. Um, the better together uh family, as we'll you know, call you. That sounds good. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listeners and followers, uh, we appreciate you guys coming in. Yeah, thank you for having me on the show. I I truly appreciate it. Um, definitely from the old church, man. I'm glad that we all always stay connected. We have. Good times, man.
SPEAKER_02Both of us have uh stayed together outside the room, man. Right, right, right. Inside the church. But uh that's a whole nother topic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A whole other topic. So uh um uh let me talk about um the uh the show first, uh what it's gonna be about, and then we'll talk about the book a little bit, tell you a little bit about myself, and then uh Chris and I are just gonna chop it up a little bit, have some fun, and uh talk about uh today's topic, which will be the overriding theme of the show as we go forward. So the show is called Better Together, a man's perspective. And um I am a uh a serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, and uh uh as of a year ago, international best-selling author. Um I grew up in the hood in Washington, D.C. Um, the youngest of eight, five boys, three girls, and I'm the only boy to live past the age of 30, which um shocks a lot of folks. Um, but uh if you know anything about uh DC back in the day in New Orleans, which is where my family is from, you know that uh that's not rare. Um, that it's a common occurrence, that violence uh kills a lot of our black men. And uh that's why I um wanted to write this book to tell my story, uh, trials and tribulations that I've gone through in my life. Um talk about my family, my faith. And uh those are the two things that have really caused, given me the um drive to endure. One thing that we'll talk about a lot is uh my one of my philosophies is never ever ever give up. And if you're a sports fan, you know Jimmy Valvano, who uh the legendary coach won the title um NCAA championship years ago. He died of brain cancer, and he gave a great speech at uh the Espie Awards. And that's one of the things he talked about. He said, never, ever, ever give up. And I'll never remember, I'll never forget that championship because uh he won it with uh a couple of guys from my old hood in DC. They were Dematha boys. I went to Dunbar and uh back in the day we had some legendary battles. And uh Sidney Lowe and and Witt from Damatha um were the the stars of that team. And uh when I got to Virginia Tech, it was a bunch of more Dematha boys that uh uh I helped Tony Page and and uh helped us to uh um succeed in in uh football there. So the uh the the book is my story. Um it talks about uh my journey, how um I survived the hood, got out, went to college, graduated, and um and now I want to give that opportunity to other young black men from DC and Baltimore. So uh we started a scholarship, my wife and I, Monica Butler. We've been married for uh Monica Murray Butler. Been married for uh over 30 years now, and um she is uh, yes, that's this there you go, right? I mean that's the purpose of the show, right? Better together, yes, despite uh things that come up, which we all know will. Um so she's joined me on this journey to uh uh get this book done, and um we want to uh promote it so that uh the because the proceeds go to benefit the scholarship, which is the Bartholomew Butler and Brian Keith Roberts, uh great Omega uh friend of mine, uh back from the hood and uh back in the hood days, and uh it's gonna go to benefit brothers from DC and Baltimore who want to go to Virginia Tech and want to provide educational pathways for them so that they can do what I did. And and there was a whole village that helped me get out of the hood because uh they looked at the situation that we were in and they said one of these boys got to get out. And I was the only one to really get past 30. So um uh, and over the next few months we'll get more into that story. But uh the book's called Redemption, Grace Extended, The Real Price of Success. It's the sponsor of this show. It's uh, and we'll get into certain aspects of the book, but um, the whole purpose of it is uh to uh fund the scholarship. So the show itself is going to be a just basically a monthly conversation with good brothers like Chris to talk about marriage and faith and family, business, uh news of the day. I won't get too deep into politics um uh because I tend to. I'm very political. And these days uh it's uh it's a rabbit hole that you really don't want to get caught up in too much because it's a swamp out there. So anyway, um Chris, you got any thoughts?
SPEAKER_01On on business? Well, the politics of the day.
SPEAKER_02Where do you want to start? All right, well, tell us about uh uh your wife and uh your your family and how you guys met.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure, sure. So um uh we actually met online. We met online through Facebook, okay. Um, which we always kind of laugh about because we still don't know like who friended who. We even went back. It was like, okay, when was the first part of the conversation?
SPEAKER_02Is that a is that a topic, uh a debate item? No, you did.
SPEAKER_01I yeah, no, so it's just you know, we're just curious, like, okay, when and it was probably I always tell her it's probably me. Like, I typically people send me friend requests all the time, and we usually have a lot of mutual friends, so I'm like, well, maybe I can get a benefit out of this something. Um, so um, that's where we met, and she started um answering my questions that I asked. So I asked daily questions on Facebook, and you know, she started asking questions at the time. I was, you know, two years divorced and single, and I was looking at that time. I had took the time to, you know, heal and go through that process and all that. So I've been there, been there myself. So um, so what wound up happening is, you know, she had answered something, and I was like, okay, I like, you know, I like the answers. I typically just kind of read everybody's answers, but I liked her answers. You like what you were getting, what you were hearing. I always tell her I um Facebook stalked her pictures and she always laugh and shake her head, like, but I did. So I just kind of tried to find something about her.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And then I asked out, I was like, hey, you know, let's, you know, I love the conversations that we are having, you know, through through comments. And I had asked out on a coffee date, and she was like, sure. So we um we actually didn't go for a coffee date, we went to um Main Event in Columbia, and we and we had a good time. And from there we just kind of um we just kind of how long ago was that? That was in 2018.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right, all right, okay.
SPEAKER_01That was in two hours. And it's so funny and it's so odd. Um, we got married in 2020. We had a COVID wedding, so it was 10 people there uh because of the restrictions. Okay, 10 people could come.
SPEAKER_02Um but um Well I barred you guys for not putting it off, like a lot of people did.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I mean you know, we are gonna renew our vows and have a big bigger wedding. But we we kind of knew what we wanted, so uh we didn't we didn't want to wait. As soon as they opened up the courts to allow us to get a certificate, um we we did it. But it's so crazy how things worked out and how such a small world it is. So as we were courting and dating, we found out that she went to she graduated with my sister, with my younger sister, the exact same school, exact same class.
SPEAKER_02Did they know each other?
SPEAKER_01Um, they knew of each other, but they didn't know like they weren't like they weren't friends, they didn't hang out. They think it's thieves now, but it's not a good thing. Um she worked at the same job at the time. Well, not at that time when we met, but previous years she worked at the same job as my godsister. Uh, me and her brother, we graduated from the same high school, just different years. It was like all these things, and then ironically, when we met, it was like August, like like mid near August when we kind of started talking. Yeah, uh, we got serious in September, and it just so happened that it was around the time that um my mother's birthday was coming up. So I was like, well, why don't you you know come over and celebrate my mother?
SPEAKER_02She met my entire like you you invited her to meet your mother. Yeah. Okay, early on. Early on. Early on. Because I I mean I knew talk about that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because you know, a lot of guys don't do that. Um, so I knew I knew what I wanted. I knew um what I didn't want. Okay. Prior to her, I went on several dates, paid for a lot of first dates. And uh I you know, I one thing I wanted to- Was it like car shopping? Well thing, uh it can be. Okay, all right. You know, one thing I did was become intentional about what I wanted. I didn't want to waste time, especially after, you know, you go through a divorce. It's like, do I want to deal with this again? I really don't, right, but I know the word of God, so I know I'm gonna have to get married. I can't, you know, be living out here in sin.
SPEAKER_02So let me applaud you for that, brother. And then that's one of the reasons why, you know, I wanted you to be my very first guest because I know you're a strong brother. Yeah. Uh not just a strong brother, but a man of faith, man of principles, uh man of business. I, you know, I I'm not on Facebook a lot. I call it book face because it's like I'm just, you know, uh, but but I I I see what you're doing and and I appreciate you. So I just want to say that. So go so go on. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, no. So um she wanted to meet my my mother, my brothers, my sister. And ironically, I had to run something to my dad, and so she met my whole immediate family.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01And I I always laugh because we often we talk about it every now and then. It's just like, man, like everything kind of just worked that way. And I know it was scary for her, like I'm meeting all of these. I know, right? Yeah, this soon. And then probably two months in, my nieces were like, Can we call her Aunt Brittany? I was just like, Wow, two months ago. Yeah, like it's almost like the whole family like really loved to because of that. So um, that's our me story. I mean, we you know, we met on Facebook, and um, I'm glad I kind of leaped in her DM saying, Did you call it Facebook stalking? Oh, I told her I stalked her Facebook picture. It just really means just going through Facebook.
SPEAKER_02I get it. You're going through, yeah, check it her out.
SPEAKER_01Just trying to see what kind of person she is, what kind of pictures she posting. Like, is it ranched or where do you go? Make sure you know I'm in the right lane.
SPEAKER_02So well, it's it's almost like interviewing, right? Because uh, you know, uh uh Monica and I have a son, uh Mitchell, a daughter Sydney, and uh we always talk about um, and Mitchell actually mentioned that to us, you have to be careful what you put online because potential employers are looking into social media to see what type of person you are. So I get what you're saying. It was it was almost like, you know, I gotta interview this person, and and on that note, I gotta add this before we we get it to the next question. Um, when I met my wife, I'm seven years older, and uh she comes from a family of uh preachers and teachers. And so I I kid with her a lot and I say, uh, you know, I came from the hood, you're like the TV Cosby family. And they really were. I mean, very well educated, you know, really strong middle class family, preachers and teachers, and uh um, and that's what I wanted. Like you said, you know, I was divorced, didn't have any kids in the first marriage, and I kind of felt like I was forced into that because I was backed into a corner and um didn't want to say no. So I did it and I stayed in for three years, but I knew from the before I even did it, it wasn't gonna work. Right. Right? So I knew what I wanted, just like you did. And her parents, uh, when uh I met them uh actually they requested an interview. They said we want to meet him. And uh and it was basically an interview. And uh she was uh she would tell you herself, she was, you know, she she was like, she was mad. She was like, why are you doing this? And I said, no, it's cool. This is great. This is what I want. This tells me what kind of family you're from. This is what I need, this is what I want for my children, right? So it was totally fine. And I and I embraced it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I think if you know, as an encouragement, I think if more families did that, if more people did that, you know. Her brother, her brother reached out and he was like, I want to meet him. Okay, her older brother. He's I can't remember how many years older, but um, so we went um probably around, I want to say this was around Christmas time. It was around Christmas time. Yeah. Um that same year, he you know, he was like, you know, I want to meet him, I want to sit down and talk to him. And you know, one of the first things he said was he said, you know, I knew I could tell by the way that my sister was that that you were good. Like you were good. Like I didn't have to, you know, come jack you up, or she didn't have to call me, like, you know what I'm saying? But you know, I always say this, and I've said this on uh Facebook before, you know, one of the things that a lot of people do is try to, and I get it, you want to see where it's going, but I think you should put like if you're serious about this person, I think you should put them in front of a family or somebody up front. Let them get a feel. I feel like people date for six months and a year, and you already invested all this time, and now you know they change on you, but you never had an opportunity to have somebody look at them and get a feel of them.
SPEAKER_02You know, that's that's that's a great point because when I got married the first time, it uh the dating was when I was in college.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So I only really got to spend time with this young lady on spring break and summers. And I was working during the summer. You know, I was always on the grind. So when it came time to uh you know to to get married, I really didn't know who she was. Right. So to your point, uh you know, it it's I think it's great and refreshing that uh to hear someone else say that um they embrace that and they like that. Oh yeah, and we need to do that more and more and more. Absolutely. So uh talk do you guys have so you are what four years in?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes, four years in um no, five, five years in dating. Okay, and um in June will be our third anniversary. Okay, 2023, June.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, any in a kid yet? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we have a three-year-old son. Okay, excellent.
SPEAKER_02All right, well tell us a little bit about him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, man. Um, yeah, so Carter's three, um, three going on 10. Okay, such a smart kid, such a you know, whimsical kid.
SPEAKER_02Um I like the name, Carter Massey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Carter, yeah, yeah, Carter Massey. Yeah, he um my parents are all of the all of the grandchildren's names start with K. So Okay. My wife was okay with that. I told her, I'm like, that was up front. This is the thing. Yeah, so when we got pregnant, I mean she already knew, but um, so she picked Carter and we agreed, and she was okay with the K. So Carter with the K, I like that. Um, just I mean, quickly growing, quickly understanding. Uh, you know, he's a three-year-old boy, so a lot of energy and trying to figure out himself. And so, you know, sometimes it's patience, Lord, you learn patience with with little children. I mean, of course, when they get older, it's even more patience because they get even more opinionated, I'm sure you too. But we can speak to that. I'm sure you can speak to that. You got a 26 and a 28-year-old. Sometimes you want to but you remember you remember yourself. Yeah, yeah. You pray God for children. So God, what you ask for.
SPEAKER_02So you mentioned uh, so he's three going on 10. Yeah, yeah. Um do you find sometimes that the kids today are so different than and I'm I'm a lot older than it than you. I I'll be 62 uh this year. Um, and uh, but I have a very youthful spirit. Yeah. And most of my friends are around your age, which is kind of crazy. Monica says that all the time, most of your friends are in their 40s. So what's up with that? I said, I don't know. I just got a youth, youthful spirit. But um, you know, when back in my day, we didn't have social media, we didn't have all these distractions, and you were just a kid, you know. Um, but today I think it's a lot tougher. So, from a perspective of uh being a parent of a young child today, talk about that a little bit and what those challenges are.
SPEAKER_01Um, so it's just trying to parent your way. It's just trying to parent your way with it with everything going on and everybody so sensitive. Um excuse me, um you know, and me and my wife have had me and Brittany have conversations about this, like, you know, we're not gonna be apologetic about how we raise our son. You know, we had strong foundations um and that's what we're gonna give him. And we're gonna teach him what we want to teach him, and and that's gonna be that, you know. And when he gets older, if he changes his opinion on a few things, then you've given him the foundation. Yeah, but I'm I'm gonna give him the foundation of what I've been taught. And um and you know, so I wouldn't say that it's different. Um, I would say that the kids are you know a lot more expressive. I mean, I'm sure you can account and e even me. Um I you know, when I was a kid, you know, you you didn't have an opinion. Yeah, you stayed in the child's place and that was it. That was it. You try to get in grown folk business, they let you know they let you know real quick. You know what I'm saying? So but now these kids, they they get to, you know, I always get on my mother and I get on the grandmothers on Facebook. I'm like, everything that we couldn't get away, y'all allow these grandkids to get away with. Like they they can choose what they want for dinner. And if you make something they don't like it, well, let's give them something. And they can give it back. They don't have to eat it. I was told if you don't like what's eaten, you're going to be hungry. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02I hated liver and onions growing up. Liver and beans. Well, I love peas. My wife hates beans. Yeah, but now she likes speaking. He understands.
SPEAKER_01But um, but but now it's like, you know, like I I try to make sure there's a balance. Like, because you know, we went outside and we played, and Carter is a he loves his iPad, but he's also an outside kid. He loves going outside. So I I try to muster up the energy, even if I'm tired, say this is important to him. Like, sometimes even now, with like I was watching the playoffs last night, and you know, there was a time when Steph got closed out, didn't he?
SPEAKER_02The Golden State. They lost. Yeah, yeah, they lost. I didn't I missed it. And you know, Steph's dad uh uh went to Virginia Tech.
SPEAKER_01Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah. Del Curry played 10 years with uh Charlotte. I used to play with uh, I used to use him in live when I when I played when he was in the NBA. Really? Okay, all right. A lot of people don't know that. Yes, yes. But um, but there are times when he just like, I just want to play. So I I'll put the phone down. And um if I'm if I'm too distracted, he'll remind me. He'll say, Come on, daddy, put the phone down, let's play. So I try to I try to make sure that I give him a voice. Um, I try to make sure I I think I think now it's so important that these children have voices because there are a lot of a lot of us our age that are still damaged, and we may not look damaged, but we're damaged because we were always told to be quiet. So um that's what it's been like. It's been fun. Um, it's been a great experience to be, you know, his father. Uh my mother joked me, she was like, You waited till you, you know, you waited until your late thirties to have a kid. I'm like, that's for all of my friends of my age that went to high school with me. Most of them, their kids just graduated high school. Right.
SPEAKER_02But you know what? It's it's okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh and yeah, I mean she she doesn't mind. I know she doesn't mind, but yeah, you know, it seems like a joke. It's been it's been a blessing though.
SPEAKER_02What's the uh I can't recite it, but what's the scripture about waiting on the Lord and and everything, you know, comes when in due time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, in due time. Yep, yep, yep. I don't remember the the scriptures, but I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_02But you know, God knew and you knew when it was time and now and you're ready to parent that child. And I think that's something that um people take too lightly. They may be ready to have kids, but really they're not ready because they don't have a plan. You guys had a plan. You knew how you wanted to parent your child, you knew what they um, you know, what those parameters would be and how you would want to raise them. And um, you know, it was it was gonna be a foundation in price because that's what you were brought up with. And I think, you know, some of the problems, a lot of the problems that we have today is the breakdown of the family unit, the breakdown of brothers, black men being in the church. Because let's be honest, let's be real, you see a lot more black women in the church than you do brothers. And why is that? I mean, what what do you what's your opinion on that?
SPEAKER_01Uh you know, I I have a lot of opinions on it, but um, I would sum it up to say that um I think the church has done a disservice not all churches, but of course uh done a level of disservice to uh both men and women. Um I won't just say men. Um why are there more women? I think the ch you know, I I'll say this. I hate to separate the church, but it is separated, so um, you know, we understand that. But um I think the black What does your church say?
SPEAKER_02Just be authentic, keeping it real about it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's exactly real about it. Um what I what I would say and what I've seen, what I will say and what I've seen that you know the the the black church has catered more to to women than men. Okay. And that's that's why you see more churches filled with, you know, women and more women than men. And you know, some churches are are changing the curve. Like, you know, you think about how the church was built. It was built on men and men served, but you have a lot of churches where you know women are doing all the serving and the men are sitting exactly, and it's like, no, like the men uh not that women shouldn't serve. I'm not saying that because I don't know about it. No, no, no, no, it's not what I'm saying is you should have a representation of more men being ushers, more men serving. People should see that families and also, you know, families are broken, right? Yeah, for whatever reason, I'm not going to, you know, get the agenda talk, but for whatever reason, families are broken. So you still have a lot of single mothers still doing their job. Shout out to them, still getting the kids to church, making sure like we're gonna have some foundation. You know, dad might not be here. Uh, but you know, my hope in prayer is that as as co-parenting comes along, that you know, that's one thing that we can see. Like, hey, dad, come to church with me. Or that's important to me to be in the same church as my child, regardless if me and his mother are together or or whatever the dynamic is. Um you know, by children.
SPEAKER_02But you can continue that, even though you guys may not agree, but you for the benefit of the child that you guys brought in together. You know, and one thing I can look back on my own upbringing, my parents, you know, death did them part. My dad died. Actually, he died um right after I graduated. Um when he came down for my graduation at Virginia Tech in '84. Um he had some problems getting around campus with breathing. You know, and um, so he went to the VA, because it was a vet, and they said, You're stage four lung cancer. He smoked two packs a day. And uh they gave him 90 days, he lived 120 days. He never really had a career, he was a functional alcoholic. My mom worked 40 years in the Department of Defense. And uh Eleanor Roosevelt actually recruited her from New Orleans to come to DC as uh she had a secretarial program, and that's how my mom came to DC. My dad was uh uh born and raised here in St. Mary's County, and um even though he was not the kind of dad that provided for his family, he was always there.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02And he's the one that taught me how to drive, he gave me my first cigar, uh, he also gave me my first bottle of bourbon. Uh but he was always there. And uh, you know, yeah, exactly. And and it wasn't the ideal situation, but the fact is that he saw that, and what it taught me was this is what I want for my family.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's something that we as uh men in general, but specifically brothers, black men, yeah, we got to stand up and do that. So let's talk a little bit about um um it's been you guys been together for five years, married for three, four.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What challenges have you had um that you can speak of um and and how did you work through those things?
SPEAKER_01Let me call and get permission so you know. Um so challenges. So, you know, um for us, I think we've had less challenges because when we first started dating, um we we asked like some we had some tough conversations up front about our past, about like our expectations. Like, um, I'll get to your your question, but when when I kind of was on the dating scene, you know, the first question I asked on the first date for every woman that I went out with was, you know, do you have any kids? Do you want any more? And wow, you asked that question. Yep. Again, I didn't I didn't want to I didn't want to waste my time and I didn't want to waste her time. Right. So it's like, why don't we get out the stuff? Yeah, let's get that stuff. I don't know. Why date somebody, you know, 10 times, 20 times, and then just to you wasted all of that time. Life is precious. You don't have time. No, you don't. We're not promised tomorrow. So I didn't want to waste my time. So that's what I asked. That was my question. Do you have kids? Do you want anymore? And pretty much um all of them but one had children, and the one that did didn't have a child, she didn't want anymore. Well, when I met Britney, she didn't have any kids, and she wanted kids just like I did. So you know that was like we we I mean we asked some tough questions. So um challenges that we've had, um I would say for me, um it's it's for me, it's been um just unrealistic expectations. Okay. Like some like expecting her to have the same faith level that I have. Not to say that her faith is weak, she just operates differently than I do.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, hers is, you know, I can be compulsive and all over the place where she's more planned and detailed and like hold on. Okay. So But think about that.
SPEAKER_02That's a good mix, right? Yeah, oh it is. If you both were compulsive, compulsive, right? Or the opposite, yeah, yeah. Um it may not work. And I would say my wife and I are very much like that as well.
SPEAKER_01So but what was happening originally, like, you know, where it was causing issues, is it's like I would get mad at her. I'm like, well, this is how I operate. Like I'm I'm compulsive. Like, if I want something, not that I like spend you know money, I'm just talking about anything. Like, I could be like, man, I just want to go to New Orleans. Okay, let me just start planning. And she was like, Well, did you think about this? Did you think about that? I'm like, why? You know what I'm saying? Why? And it's just like, and then it's you know, certain things, um, but it's so funny because everything she is is everything that I pray for. It doesn't mean that she's perfect, but right, God knew exactly what I needed. What I need I needed somebody that could hold me accountable. But what I was seeing originally before, before before I took a step back and had to check myself was, you know, I was just like, man, it would be like, hey, like she would all mean remind me of stuff. And I'm like, do I do I look like I need a reminding? Like, she's like, no, I just I want you to just remember.
SPEAKER_02And I used to wait, we call it overcommunicating.
SPEAKER_01But see, I used to, I used to get mad at that, but then one day it clicked. When I was in my prayer time with God, and he just reminded me, this is what you needed. Yes. And every time I would check myself, and I'm quick to apologize. I don't uh she knows I don't hold grudges. Even if you did wrong and I'm mad at you, I'm like, all right, you let it go. We can get it we can get it over. So moving on. So it was just a different, I mean, we just operate differently. Um to kind of sum it up, we we um operate differently. I'll I'll give you an example. I you know, when we met um last time I told you about, you know, the marriage gatherings that we had. And um so we had a uh we had a communication uh issue that I I had to realize something. I had a it was a good revelation, but it only came from God because I had to throw flesh out the way, and trust me, it was hard. Um but she had so we were hosting it at our home, and I I get you know the dynamic. In general, the house represents the woman. So if somebody comes in the house and they see the house messed up, they're gonna the woman like why is your house like this? Right, right. The men don't get that. We get everything else. Yeah, yeah. But the house, so she was like, you know, she, you know, got that anxiety going. Like, people gonna be in my house. I want to make sure everything's straight. So I'm like, all right, what do you need me to do? Like, just you know, so instead of asking to do asking me to do things, she was like, Oh yeah, go do this. And I'm like, it took a second. I was like, can you I said, can you ask nicely? Like, right, and it's not that I'm sensitive, it's just like I don't want you telling me what to do in a sense like you like like pointing and like giving me orders. Yes, no, I got it. I'm gonna do it because I told you. So then I I had to apologize to her. You would have done it anyway. Right. I was gonna do it anyway, but I'm like, that's not her intention. Correct. Her intention is this house needs to be spot clean when people come in my house. So, you know because it represents because it represents her. So one of the things that you know, we were talking, and you know, we usually throw out some questions, you know, we just you know we get together with other married couples and we'll do questions and then we'll have some fun. And somebody asked a question, and you know, my response was uh, you know, I had to I had to learn how to operate in what she sees as chaotic. I didn't see it that way.
SPEAKER_02Operating in a chaotic situation right from her point of view. From her point of view.
SPEAKER_01So now I understand when she says, hey, I need this done, is because she's running through 10 different things in her mind and it's like, okay, now I can move, or I already like now I already know, like if we have somebody over, I already know what to do because I already know what she's looking for. And I know that if it's not what she's looking for, she'll come behind me and do it. And I'm okay with that. I don't take offense. Right. Come behind me, but I'm gonna try to do it right the first time.
SPEAKER_02So um, you know, I would say for the most part, um, you know, it's just like a level of patience that we continue to try to have for each other, and getting to really know um who that person is and understanding uh them. And and I can tell you this, this from my um our experience, and I'm sure Monica would agree, you know, we're 30 plus years in this um journey that we're on, and um we still struggle with that. Yeah, and I am just now learning how to read her and understand her. Yeah, you know, sh uh there was a time where she would complain about work or this or that, and um I'm a fixer, right? So I mean, we try to fix it, right? Because I mean, by trade, I'm a project manager, right? Right? So I was looking at my wife as a project. She came to me with a problem. I'm like, all right, here's what you need to do. Right. It took me years and years and years to figure out just shut up and listen. Yes, yeah, that's it. You don't gotta say nothing, you don't have to come up with a plan, you don't have to say do this, this, and this. She just wants you to listen. Yeah, and that's something that, and that goes back to your point about communication.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Like, I even now I still try to, because I'm a fixer too. I'm like, I'm like, let's just whatever it is, we can address it right now. But it's like, no, it's not gonna work like that. Like her um recently her aunt passed, okay, and we were having a conversation about something. And usually, you know, we in our communication we don't over talk each other. We try to like um we, you know, try to respect each other, but I noticed that she just kept talking. So I had to stop because I would try to jump in when she got silent. Women like to talk.
SPEAKER_02I try to, well, you when you got that opening, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I tried to jump in when I had that opening, but I realized that she needed to vent. Yes. So it it really takes self-aware. She just needs to listen to say, like, yeah, I really just need to be quiet. So in that moment, I was quiet even in her pauses. Wow. And then when when I realized she was done venting, I mean she was talking, stop, talking, stop, tears, stop. Um, I had realized, okay, she's talking, she just needs to get this out. So let me let me um let me be quiet. And and another thing I wanted to add to your question is you know, early on we we we talked about our communication style. Like we're not gonna be yelling at each other. That's that's not gonna work. Right, not an option, right? It's it's um it has an effect on her, and also for me, that's how I communicated in my first marriage, and I knew I did not want to communicate this way. So, like, we get frustrated with each other, of course. I mean, you know, sometimes I think it's natural. Yeah, it's natural. And I frustrate my wife almost every day. But but you know, and that's thank you for hanging out here. And I encourage, you know, I encourage married couples like change your communication style. Yelling is not gonna fix anything. Correct. You will still be heard being very direct, like she can be very direct with me, and I hear her loud and clear because it one, you don't want to see that, you don't want your children to see that. And two, like you just don't like that it's not getting nowhere. So if we do feel because it's a natural reaction to get frustrated with somebody that's not either agreeing with you or listening to you, especially the person that you you know committed to.
SPEAKER_02Because we want that, don't we? We we want everyone to buy into our philosophy, our point of view, you know, because we think we know it all.
SPEAKER_01Right. You I mean at the end of the day, we're both trying to be heard and understood. Correct. There you go. Great point. If we feel like it's getting heated, or if she says, hey, I just need time to process this, even if I'm mad, because again, me, I'm like, let's just get this out the way so we don't have to deal with it. But I had to learn through Time out. Yeah, I had to I had to learn through conversations and through situations that she needs time to process it to understand both perspectives. So at first it was hard for me to understand that because I'm like, yo, like, let's just get it over with. But she's like, no, I don't operate like that.
SPEAKER_02Like we have to she went you wanted to check it off your list, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01I did, yeah. I wanted to check it off your list. I just I just Hey Moo, yeah, I just I don't like that. I don't like that feeling. Yeah, yeah. You know the feeling like when you are you arguing with your spouse. That's what I've people talking about. Oh, I went all day without speaking to my spouse, so we ain't talking two weeks, and I'm like teaching.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01It's nothing worth that. I mean, we'd have made a lifelong commitment. Exactly. It's nothing worth arguing with your spouse for for two weeks. If it's that big, go to counseling if it if it requires that. But at the end of the day, again, you're not not to make it like about death, but you're not promised. Like, you don't want that to happen. I've heard a story from someone I know personally who um a family member of theirs, husband and wife were arguing, holding grudges against each other. I mean, they had a blowout that same day. The husband fell down the steps, passed away. Whoa. Now she had to live with that for the rest of her life. That was the last thing that she remembered. That was the last thing she remembered. So when I, you know, hear stories like that and I heard that story, it makes me say, okay, she needs time, she needs time. If it's 24 hours, give it 24 hours. But at the end of the day, I'ma still show you love. I'ma still, you know, be there. I don't, you know, I told her, I don't care how mad we are, I'm not sleeping on no sofa. Like not for a not for a house that I pay bills in. And she understands where we mad, we got a king size bed. We just gonna be in the bed together. We together. The reason for the show.
SPEAKER_02Wow, the reason for the show, man. I uh I you know, I as I opened up, I said this is uh my first one, but um, and I didn't script anything out, but I knew that two you put two good brothers together who are men of faith, and it would all work out. I enjoyed uh this conversation. I'm time, man. The time is fine by.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So uh uh let's end on that note, better together. Christopher Massey, man. I love you, brother. Love you strong, man. Appreciate it. And uh I want to uh um uh monica's here. I'd love to join you guys on those uh marriage things that you have at your house. Oh, yeah, yeah. You need some old, you know, people with gray hair to come in there to give out two cents. You you young guys. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'll definitely let you guys know.
SPEAKER_02So uh so thank you again, brother. No problem. I appreciate uh I hope the uh our our listening audience, um, as it were, would uh I hope that you enjoy this uh conversation and uh just stay tuned. Um right now we're gonna be doing this on a monthly basis. Um, and um wherever you find your podcast, uh look for us uh better together from a man's perspective. Um and appreciate you giving us a little bit of time to to chop it up. Chris and I, and uh, I think I really uh we need a tag team, this we uh you know I think you you know we gotta work something out. I'll talk to your agent. All right, thank you guys. Uh I've been enjoying it, Chris. Appreciate you, brother. Tell Brittany uh uh uh thank you for uh uh letting letting you out of the house for an hour to hang out.
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir, yes sir.
SPEAKER_02And I'm gonna give thanks to my lovely wife, Monica Butler, who is here uh in the studio with us, uh recording this. She said, absolutely, I'm coming. So uh thank you guys, be blessed, and um, I guess I can say have have a great happy Mother's Day tomorrow. So take care. See you next time.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to Better Together from a Man's Perspective. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow or subscribe on your favorite platform so you can stay up to date on new episodes. Better Together is sponsored by Redemption, Christ extended, and the real price of success. Buy it on Amazon or direct at www.thepartbutlerstory.com. Until next time,