2026 Boat Industry Updates: Boat Brands, Finance Rates & More

Welcome back to another episode of the Serious Angler Podcast! Today, we are joined by Todd Dreysse, CEO and Co-Founder of RecLending, to get a complete breakdown of the current status of the boating industry.

If you've spent any time recently going back and forth with marine dealerships about financing options, you know how complex the current landscape can be. Whether you are looking to upgrade your tournament rig, finance a new bass boat, or figure out the smartest move for your next vessel, navigating the 2026 marine market requires a solid strategy.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Welcome back, folks, to a bonus episode with myself. I am your host, Adam Deakin, and we are getting on our dude, the one and only Mr. Todd Dryce with Rec Lending. And we are chatting about what is going on in the world, what is going on in the boat market, and whether or not you should maybe look at buying a boat right now. And also, we chat about old stories. I think my favorite part about uh getting Todd on is we get to talk through old boats and crazy stories and all sorts of things that happen. So just a good old conversation on fishing. We get into details on the boat market, how things have consolidated in the past and otherwise. So neat conversation that uh, you know, squirrel brain get all over the place, but we uh we cover some good topics. So there's some nuggets in here worth paying attention to if you're nerdy like me and like covering things like the boat market and bass fishing. Come on. All right, folks. Now we are joined by the man, Mr. Todd with rec lending. How are things going, man?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

I don't know as I take the I'm a the the man. I am a man, but yeah, it's wonderful. I have nothing to complain about. Finally got to do some fishing. There's some sun out. It's probably getting 40 up here now. I'm life's good. Life's good. How about you? You did more fishing than I have.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Man, I have been. Uh I'm doing well. I've been, you know, it's been such a mild winter here. It's crazy how mild it's been, quite frankly, in Idaho. Um, a little scary. I think we need a lot more moisture, a lot more snowpack, just we're we're so reliant on water, not only for our fisheries, but for forest fires, for agriculture, for everything. Um, so hoping we get a little more moisture than we have, but I've been taking advantage of it. Um both fishing locally and then also made a trip down to California to start the year on Shasta Lake, catching some spotted bass um and largemouth, but on on uh Lake Shasta in California for a tournament, which was a good time. And I'm about to hit the road here soon and head down to Havasu for the first uh BAM Super 60 tournament of the year. So nice. We're we're starting to go. It's been all right, man. Yeah, I can't complain too much. Um fishing, fishing what I would call, you know, top third of the pack, um, which is which is good, but but would like to be uh a little bit uh heavier. But as far as AOI points and all that sort of stuff goes, I'm I'm happy so far. So um can't can't complain too much. What about you though? You were just on the road, talk about the tournament. Uh you were down at Pickwick Lake, talk about the event that was going on, and we were down there for like eight days.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

The first day we got to practice was beautiful, like 72 degrees, no wind, it's fishing shirts off and shorts, and I mean it's just wonderful. Next day it was 19 degrees. And the wind blew 30 miles an hour. It was just one of those, it went from high to low to high. Yeah, you just can't keep I can't anyway. I just can't keep up with them in that way. I mean, we have water temp when we first got there at four or 54, 55. First day of the derby, it was 42. And but they caught them. I mean, they caught the snot out of them.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I just didn't. Man, we were we were talking while you were practicing, uh, and you were just saying, some of these guys are catching, you know, six and seven pounders consistently, just some big fish.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Oh man, everybody in the house caught at least a six. Everybody, or a couple of them, we had a seven and a half, and two of the guys from up here, they finished, I think they finished fourth or fifth.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

They had a pair of eights one day, and we just missed it. We were fishing all the right stuff the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

So they were shaking the minnow over the top of these really shallow stones, four foot of water, five foot of water. And we'd catch one every now and then on a trap or on a Carolina rig or a split shot rig or uh uh A-rig. But it was shaking the mineral over the top, but good the kid who won it put a pretty good video on out on it. He wore a camera both days, and kind of cool, kind of cool to watch.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Cool. Uh and this and this event was what event? What championship?

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Uh uh Anglers Choice. So they've got divisions all over the Midwest, down into the south, and every division, depending on how many, how many folks fish or how many derbies get fished, gets to take the top four, five, or six or whatever from that division, and they go to this for a championship. And first and second place get boats. Um they draw for a boat. Uh paid a lot of money. They really did. I mean, it was probably the tournament series got sold last year. So you always wonder how it's gonna go. Right. And Pickwick has got a very tight launching staging area. So the whole time I've been thinking, man, if if this doesn't go perfect, it's gonna be a melee. I'm not kidding you. It was absolutely flawless. I mean, there's 250 boats out there, and I I get dumped in the water, and in five minutes, I'm picking my my partner up on the dock, and we're sitting out waiting for the things to start. Nobody got anybody's way. I mean, it was just the weigh-ins took half the time that it did previously. So I'm really happy how they did it. The Bedford Marine in southern Illinois, in Illinois, anyway, bought it and completely changed the dynamic of it. Really did. They did a wonderful job.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

That's great.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

And the out of our dealers.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

So okay, I like it. That's something that you know is always a concern. Um, to your point, something similar that really happened out west with the whole Apex tour and Western, uh, I don't even remember the name of everything, but it was it was the trail previous to Mark Lazang and and Bass Angler magazine buying it, you know, there was a lot of concern there because, you know, there was missed missed payouts as far as checks go, like just terrible, terrible stuff, right? And Mark picked it up and and is absolutely ran with it. It's been a flawless tournament tournament series. And so you, you know, like you said, there's always that hesitancy, and you hope that it gets better when something like that happens. And and it sounds like in this case it also did.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

I don't think of that size, I don't think I've been to a better run tournament. It really was good. Wow.

unknown 7:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Everybody got in and out. I mean so they had thought through this thing start to finish. Where you're gonna park them, how you put them in, what ramps you're gonna use to put them in. I mean, they did they did well, really well. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

So the so the guys shaking a minnow in that shallow water stuff, were they using a real light jig head, like 16th ounce?

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Uh it looked from the video, it looks like an eighth or a or three sixteenths. Okay. And five inches. He just flat stoned him. He had I think he had 20, 25 one day, 24 the next, something like that. 49, 50 pounds to win.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

What what kind of uh uh uh minnow? It looked like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Oh god, it looked like the the what Sakamoto?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Uh-huh the sakamoto.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

I think yep, I think that I think that was I think that's what it looked like. Okay, like a five inch. Probably tell me it wasn't that, but either way, it was it was a five-inch minnow. Yeah, yeah, okay, cool. Man, it was fun. We had a really good time. We I took three of our teams down there to stay with us in a house, and I'll tell you a little backstory, but this year I've let Dustin, who is our sales manager here, and my son-in-law, I've let Dustin make all the arrangements for where we're gonna stay and all that stuff. And we get down to this place that he rented, and it was literally a guest house that when you walked out the door, you sat at the folks live sitting in their living room and on at the fireplace.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

No way.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

There's eight of us, and there's two bathrooms and four beds. But but there was a hot tub, and they went. I think he got the hot tub and quit. He was like, This is it, this is the spot. So we had to move out, find another one. Oh, it worked out good in that one. The next house is really nice, so everybody had enough room, and yeah, we spent probably I don't know, the first four or five nights watching hockey, women's hockey, men's hockey. Yeah, we get to the game, but no, we had a great time.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

That's awesome, man. Nothing it's fun to travel like that with a group across states, you know, and everyone, you know, cooking meals, etc. It's some of my favorite part of tournament fishing is the camaraderie outside of the tournament.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Well, three of the teams we caravan down together, and I thought about it. We're going right by Phoenix. So I called Jeff and Gary and said, Hey, would you mind if we stopped by and just kind of give them a little tour or whatever? Because none of them had ever seen a boat being built. Cool. And so we pulled in there like at noon on Wednesday or Tuesday or Wednesday, whatever day it was. And we spent three hours, two and a half anyway, at the Phoenix plant. It and these guys were just so in awe. And I'm in awe of the fact that after 40 years, they really haven't changed a whole lot. They've changed the mechanics of how they do it, they may change the materials, but it's still a very hands-on build. It's they've not automated anything, anything. But I guess that's what makes it so special, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

That's cool. That's really, really cool. Yeah. Uh, what a neat experience for the guys going down to to I I I still have not been to any plant as far as uh as far as boat build stuff goes. I'd love to just see how it's all done. I mean, I've seen videos, I've seen kind of like some of the stuff, but I've never seen it in person. That'd be really cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Completely different what than what you think.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

It really is.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah. The the it starts with the gel code, the color. And you gotta build in because it's in a mold. Really? Yeah. And so by the time they're finished laying the stuff up, that's just the rough stuff on the outside. Everything beautiful is on the inside, and when they pop it, you get to see it. But it's cool, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

That's so cool, man. That's really cool. Well, so fishing, fishing was tough for you, but some of the boys did well from up north. Um, and now you're you're back. I mean, it's it's March, so stuff's around the corner as far as both fishing, uh, boat show season, you know, has been kind of happening.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Like we are our last pair of them are next week. So which ones are those? Uh Novae Boat Show and the Grand Rapids, I think they call it uh Ultimate Fishing Show, something like that. So one will be dedicated to fishing stuff, one will be dedicated to playboats.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

I'm not gonna lie, so far this year it's been really remarkable. I mean, the the you folks here are well, I don't know how this Iran thing is gonna handle things, but the folks seem to have a better outlook and they know that rates are coming down. They know that it's you know a third less than it was this time last year.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

And so apps are up, thanks are up. Good. Okay, I guess that's all I'm asked for. Right. Yeah, I mean, we're seeing headlines everywhere, right? As far as lowest 30-year mortgage sort of things, right? Interest rates coming down on the boating side of things. You're seeing promotions from brands. Um, I think Skeeter's got one going around at like 3.75 or something percent, like real low rate, et cetera. But what can you comment on as far as right now, rates-wise, what's happening, um and and what do you anticipate kind of as we as we build into the spring?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

So the the banks change rates once a month, and it's usually at the beginning of the month or the end of the next month. Okay, and then you get kind of a glimpse into what their outlook is. For the past two months, they've not changed anything. I mean, but they have come out at each one of the boat shows and come up with a special that dropped it by half or three-quarter or whatever it is. So I think there's some room in there now for them to get a little bit more aggressive, especially after the once the Fed starts taking it down in March and April, and I'm pretty sure that's gonna happen. Right. So but that I mean, that helps the rate going down helps everybody. The dealers, you know, floor plan, inventory, all that stuff. It just cuts the interest cost by a third.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I mean, that's a big number in most marinas cases, you know. Right. Walk walk through that third just because of where rates were last year to like roughly where they are now. Like what real numbers here? Where where do you feel like things stand?

SPEAKER_03 14:56

I've been talking to some banks that are that are doing floor plan. So this may not be in the industry yet, but it's coming. Okay. Um right now, rates typically for floor plan between nine and eleven percent. Wow. Yeah. Okay, so you get free floor plan for six months, nine months, a year, whatever it happens to be, and then you have to start paying interest on it. That 11 is a big number. I mean, think about it, you got$200,000 bass boat sitting in your showroom. That's a real number. And if you can diminish that from 11 to 7, a third less, geez, that's like getting a raise for the dealers. It gives them so much more money to work with, so much more capital for them to buy other boats with. And so I think we'll see that coming up pretty soon. I see.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Okay, yeah. Yeah, it's a big deal. I mean, and and it trickles down as we've talked about before, but with the consumer, the longer a boat sits on the market on a floor plan, the more anxious that the dealer is to sell that because they're having to start paying interest on it after that six, nine year window.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Um well, on the way down, they we've been courting a bank for 10 years. And on the way down, their headquarters is in Kentucky, and they wanted to they wanted me to meet with the board of directors, right? Yep, take me out to dinner, do whatever it is. So I've really got a glimpse into what their mindset is and how they make money. And I think I think we're putting together some stuff, um, not only with the bank, but with Phoenix. I think I'm gonna tie the two of them together and try to and do something industry changing this fall. Okay. So when the interest when the free floor, excuse me, free floor plan is quit, something to help move that in stock uh outdated inventory and move it down the line. Yeah, I think we could do that. I've spent 40 years in this business, and I get for whatever reason, you cannot get the industry stirred up in the fall. They're hunting, they're whatever. But I got an idea that might, so we'll see. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, well, as my wheels were spinning, I left the bank, went to the bank um in the afternoon the day before, left there and went to Phoenix. And the whole time I'm my wheels are spinning. I mean, I I I got a good idea. We'll see if it works. Interesting. Well, we'll have to get you on right before uh you know, as you as that materializes, because that uh as soon as I as soon as I got it pinned down, there's some I I just some information now and uh decisions on a few things are all all we're really waiting for, and then we'll promote the snot out of it once it gets to August or September. So got it. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Okay, now now what about the health of the bass boat market right now? Um both used boats as well as dealers. What's your pulse kind of currently?

SPEAKER_03 18:24

The only segment of the boating world that went up last year is fishing boats.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Really?

SPEAKER_03 18:35

It by a big number. And now everybody, all the service providers, all the dealers are failing to put fishing boats in because that's what's moving. And we're fortunate that we're well planted in that segment of the industry right now, but I don't see anything but good. I really don't. I think that I think our buyers are getting uh they're getting smarter. Um they're tending that credit scores are are seeming to go up. Their patience for the deal, and I know that doesn't sound like much, but it's a really big deal for us. Their patience for the deal is is settling down. No, three days is okay. I don't need to have it in 12 hours now. So so all in all in all, I really think we're this should be a really good year for our industry. The rest of it I can't say, but but really all is uh ours is pretty much all I don't want to care about anyway. So I don't want I don't want dealers to go to business, you know, but I mean I could care less how many Yamaha jet boats get sold. So really good.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I'm with you. Or wake boats or you know, whatever whatever else. Um well that's good to hear. I mean, why do you think it is that that the fishing boat segment increased yet all other and I'd assume these other segments are like ski boats, jet skis, like different categories?

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Snowboats, PWCs, uh playboats, uh all that stuff. Okay. And well, please don't anybody take this wrong. But we're Bubas. We will we will let our house and our dog and our car go, our wife go before we let our our boat go. And that is in their head. And I don't mean that that it gets to there, but what I mean is they they dream on these things for so long before they buy them. We all do, right? And you're not gonna give it up just because you know, somebody saying something bad on the news or somebody off social media is being a jerk, right? But I'm and I count myself in that group. Same. I mean, I am I am firmly implanted in the boat group, right? Much to uh much to my wife's chagrin, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, we uh as bass fishermen, as fishermen in general, um do a lot of things before before getting rid of the boat. And I think I think that's a a well uh you know agreed upon statement. Um and so I I think I think it also can be a positive thing, man, right? Like I think I have worked hard to be able to have a boat and fish, right? Um, and so it's it can be a positive too, but you're right. If it can starts going downhill, I'm getting rid of a lot of things before I get rid of the boat.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

I mean, I don't see any other segment of the market, the boating market, anyway, where where the purchase is so anticipated and so planned. Yeah, yeah. You can say I'm gonna get a pontoon next year, you can say I'm gonna, but they don't know when they go to shop for their pontoon if they're what motor they're gonna put on it or what depth finder they're gonna have, whether it's gonna what color billing bimini. Topical of the boat is all this. When a guy walks into a basketball store, nine out of ten times he knows everything he wants right up front. And you might be able to change some of his stuff a little bit, but he knows.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think you're you're you're kind of coming back to your point of the consumer is more knowledgeable and prepared than they've ever been when they're walking. Absolutely. Absolutely.

unknown 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

And I think that's just an attribute too to just the day of age of technology, YouTube, etc. It's like you can know every little thing. I'll tell you a story. I took a uh an awesome, awesome old farmer here fishing, and he we went crappie and perch fishing, and he is in his 70s, mid-70s, and you know, he he had asked me, you know, this forward-facing sonar stuff. I'm I'm interested in it. I have done a lot of research. Well, I'm in his shop and he has done a ton of research. I mean, he's got the live scope, transducer, etc., everything dialed in. He's got a cheat sheet for settings. Like, he's been doing his research. I'm I'm I'm super impressed with it. And um, so he's like, but you know what? There's nothing like seeing it kind of live, watching someone do do it. Well, we went out and we smashed him. I mean, we put a bucket full of slab crappie as well as perch together, and I was so impressed at his ability, um, you know, just to understand what was going on. And I think part of that was his previous research, but boy, he he was pretty blown away at having it all happen in front of him, but he was good. I mean, I was like, wow, you know, I expected this day to be completely different. It was gonna be really hard. I mean, we're throwing, you know, one thirty-second ounce or one sixteenth ounce jigs and having it go down to the fish, and and it's and it's not exactly easy, especially if there's any wind. And I was I was super impressed. So it was it was a really fun day, but it just showed me like, you know, this notion of okay, there's this generational shift of like the young guys, which there absolutely is. We're watching them, right? They're unbelievable forward-facing. But it it kind of I was impressed with his age, and I wasn't being biased, but I'm just saying I was expecting it to be tougher than it was, and he was he he figured out.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

My partner and I kind of chatted about it too on the way home, and that putting the boat in 40 feet of water and just running looking for a floater somewhere. I have zero interest in that. That is not fishing to me, it's not exciting, okay. Yeah, you know, but the way that the the that team did it is that him and his dad down there with the stumps. I get that. I I mean that's a presentation that fish on a stump is not gonna see every day. Yeah, and I can do that. So we chit-chattered about it. I tell you this, that one of our one of our pros, Ryan, Rylan, yeah, Deadkin is amazing with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

I mean, amazing. I texted, yeah, when when the uh um Bassmaster Open was going on um Rayburn, and I love how Bassmaster covers that final day in the opens live. And so I saw the rec lending logo, the farm bureau logo, and I thought, oh boy, this must be the guy. You know, I remember an interview maybe last year, uh, maybe, maybe it was even two years ago. You had mentioned about hey, there's this kid up here that is really good that we're we're taking a chance on. He's going to fish the opens. Um, and man, I he was he was chilling.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

That kid showed up at at two of uh my hometown lakes that the ones that we call them 80 percenters. Yep. 80% of the time I'm gonna win it. If not, I'll be in second or third place or whatever. And absolutely embarrassed us. Embarrassed us. And we were we have back-to-back weekends, and again, micarters said, You gotta call me on Monday, we're gonna talk about this. He's not, he doesn't have much, he's not very outgoing. Okay, but he's young. I mean, he's I think he's 19 now, and it's a completely different he's in a different world now than he's than I think he's ever known, but but uh he I think last year he learned how to practice. And he'd send me pictures of you know big fish, you know, nine-pounder for why is it rayburn or whatever? He'd send me all these white practice and I'm telling him, leave those alone. If you know they're there, don't catch them, just leave them alone. I think this time you I think he just I think he got patient and said, I'm gonna save this stuff, and he did and and did well. It was really cool, it was fun to watch. Oh man. I don't think I've ever seen him excited. Yeah, I I love it. Well, I I almost fired him. What uh we actually I did fire him. Uh so we every year we go over the the promotional plan and the who's gonna be sponsored, what it's gonna be, all those things. And in my opinion, I didn't think I'd saw much at all from Ryland in terms of uh social media presence, all the stuff that we asked our staff guys. And I literally called him and said, Look, there's nothing we're gonna be able to do this year, didn't work out well last year, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just didn't see what I needed to be, and told him thank you and look at it again someday if you want to. But and then the next day, our social media girl came in and I going through the list and I said, I've already told Rylan that we're not gonna do anything with him, and she says, Why? I said, because I don't see a lot. She goes, He's our number one poster, or he's our number one. I we get more of him from him than almost all of them combined. Wow. I guess I'm not paying attention. I was gonna say I had to call him Crow and just tell him I apologize. So so I'm glad to have him back. Glad to have him back because he really will make a difference someday in the in in this industry. Good kid, nice family. That's awesome. Works his tail off.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

So heck yeah, man. Well, he's off to a great start. I mean, if he uh obviously first derby of the year, but I mean he's sitting with a seventh place finish, like that's a good good start for the potential to make the elite series, which is which is really cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

He uh well imagine that being 19 years old and being on the cusp of of winning a major guy, it's Rayburn. I mean, who wouldn't want to run Rayburn? But so I think he handled himself well, he did well. I think everything that I saw of him, proud of me, did a nice job.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, man. I think he or that uh I think it was Andrew Binky or or Banke, something like that, another northern guy um out of Wisconsin, I believe, but they were sharing the same water. If either one of them didn't have to share that water, I think I think they would have it out. Yep. Yep. It's just how the they both found it. Have you been to ever been to Raven? Yeah, I I fished there a lot in college. Um we had a lot of college tournaments there.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

That's just the deal, in my opinion. I mean, that's the land of giants.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Especially that this time of year, right? I mean, that that's this is like I was having this conversation the other day because we see it, we see it on the western lakes as well. But that February time frame, that pre-spawn, early pre-spawn to pre-spawn on bodies of water where there are true giant females, like a lot of those seven to 15 pound fish, they group up bigger in that time frame than any other time of the year, in my opinion. And it's why you see the biggest bags. It won't, it's not, it's never like there's the biggest gap. You know, I think about this on Clear Lake, just you know, there was a 45-pound bag weight or something, and then and then you look at it on Rayburn, and there's you know, a high 30s or whatever it may be, and then the next bags down are maybe the high 20s, but someone just lands on that big group of pre-spawn females, and they are, I mean, just it's like it's not even real. What happens?

SPEAKER_03 31:28

What really got me down at Pickwick is they were there, that's what they were doing, right? But they were in four and five foot of water in my world. I'm thinking I'm looking for smallies in 40 foot now this time of the year, and I'm looking for just a group of them. That was not the case with these large bones, they were on the bank. Yeah, made it fun, but I didn't catch any good ones.

unknown 31:53

Dang it.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

That's that's so what's up for you this year? What I mean, in terms of the uh the business side of the fishing, how's it going for you?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, man, things are things are really good. The podcast is um strong as it's ever been. You know, we've got um we've got our serious angler show, we do our serious western as a part of that show. We've got the uh lure lab and then the kayak fishing weekly. So we are we are cranking. It's it's uh just humbled with our our growth overall, which has been a bunch of fun. Unfortunately, I will not be at the classic. The rest of the guys will be at the classic. Um, so pumped, pumped for that. Um, and I'm headed down to to Arizona as far as that stuff goes. But overall, man, really can't complain. What I've seen in the industry is like overall strength, I think, on the tackle side of things, you know, tungsten, tungsten um sourcing has gotten a little shaky and expensive. So you're and and that's primarily because of this AI boom and everything related to that. You know, the from what I understand, right, like the a a lot of this technology also uses tungsten and and those guys, generally speaking, pay a lot more than us trying to make jig heads with them. So crazy. It's it's crazy, man. Here in Idaho, you're seeing some of the mines reopen that haven't been open for you know 30 years. But because of where pricing is now, it it makes sense to uh get back.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Yeah, but it's over$17 an ounce. It doesn't make sense to have a hundred guys in the ground digging it. But when it's a hundred bucks an ounce, now it's all of a sudden viable.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

So it's it's it's crazy, man. Just overall the world right now with everything. Um but the brands, the brands that that we're we've you know are partnered with or have talked to throughout the industry have been have been in a good position overall. I think what I've heard on the boat side of things is I mean, it feels like kind of the same story that's been that's been happening for quite some time. And I'd be curious your take. Like the overall boat market is it's still very hard to sell a used boat. Probably seasonally that's changing now that we're getting into the spring, but it's it's still hard, guys that are stuck on selling a boat, or maybe they they sold a used boat at a lesser price than they wanted to. Um one thing that always bothers me a little bit about tournaments giving out boats when it's a kit boat, um, you know, like an 18-foot boat with a 150 on it or whatever, those boats seem like they take forever to sell. Like, holy cow, it just seems like there's not even a market for them. It's your double boat guy out there anymore, right? No.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Yeah, I don't know if you agree with that, but it's so we belong to the National Marine Lenders Association. So they do all these quarterly and annual and biannual reports on the different segments within the markets and how it's divided up. And used boats flipped in the past couple of years. Used to be that a dealer's penetration in terms of new and used was about 60% on the used side and 40% on the new side. Okay, and it's absolute absolutely the opposite now. And and used is coming back because late last year it just almost non-existed. But I think I think that's a hangover from COVID. Okay. I think that that those boats were so priced that it just made it more difficult to get rid of.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

But I really think we're getting close to turning that around or getting them out of the market anyway, or so when you say covet hangover, you're you're meaning though those are people that bought new boats during COVID and then are flooded the market with used boats because they're not staying with fishing.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Well, during COVID, there, you know, people shut plants down. People didn't show up for work, they didn't do all these things, which made inventory stressed. So, but even though the in the inventory was stressed, the buyer wasn't, and everybody wanted them. So, I mean, get everything was sold off to everybody's floor all over the country, and that's a chance for a dealer to make some money or to be a little greedy on that side, and I don't mean anything for the dealers, it doesn't happen to them very often, right? But the the the valuing NADA blue book, all those other things, they they didn't keep up. So what I mean by a hangover is now all of a sudden this kid paid$80,000 for a boat that's got a value the next year of$45,000 because he played retail for it. Truth is, it probably should be marked somewhere in that$60 or$65,000 range, but the valuation companies hadn't got there. And I think we're almost through that. I mean, right now, yeah, I think we're almost through it.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Interesting. So that's where it the issues probably happened. And I'm curious, I'm sure it happened on the credit side too, of a guy who's got to sell, you know, so say, like you said, it's now worth 45 and he paid 80 for it, and maybe he gets a little more than 45 for it, but he owes still 60,000 bucks on the boat or something, he's writing a check to sell it.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

Yep. And it just suppresses the market. So then, so then the guy can't sell his boat individually, so he can't put it up marketplace, he can put it wherever he wants to, then sell it. So now he ends up trading it in, and instead of writing a check for the difference, they roll the money over, and it just delays the next one he'll get. I think we're getting through it. Okay. The dealer sits on it for a lot longer, too.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So interesting. Interesting. Wow. What's your take on brands right now as far as strength? Um, you know, there's always rumors of mergers and and otherwise, but do you feel like the bass boat industry's at a good number of brands as far as overall? I think that I think we're get starting to get there.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Okay. I think um what's that one you almost did? Um what what boat company was I looking at? Yeah. Falcon. What was it? Falcon. Falcon. I've seen I've seen a lot more Falcons than I ever have. Cool and to be honest with you, it's a good looking boat. I mean, and that guy that normally wouldn't even consider it, it's they've still got it relatively affordable. It's not shockingly expensive, right? But I've seen a whole lot less Rangers. I agree. A whole lot less nitros. I mean, there's probably 70% of the field at Pickwick that were Phoenixes.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

I was gonna say, you're in heavy Phoenix country. Um man. Yeah. I I agree. I think I think some of these smaller brands, it's neat to see them pop in. I would say on the West Coast, there's still, I mean, just a presence of of ranger dealers, and I'm talking specifically California. There were some really strong ranger dealers out there that have stayed. I would say Bass Cat, man. I see a good amount of Bass Cats.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Um I do too. I do too. You know, I think they've changed a lot of things since it got bought in terms of how they market it and and that kind of if you're not in our family, you're not in our family mindset. Yeah. It's not at the company now. It's still in the buyers, it's still in the voters, but they want to make people part of the of the company now.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

And yeah.

unknown 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

It's in quite quite a few of them.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah. Skeeter, Skeeter seems to be kind of just always around, like a good amount, always around, but um maybe not the at least certainly out here, not the number one by any means, as far as boats.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

I'll tell you, I'll tell you another thing. I bet I saw 10, 10 or 12 completely refurbished champions.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

You know, we see a lot of those out here too. That's really cool. We see those, and I see those when I'm headed down to Havasu here in a couple weeks. I see so many down in the desert. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

They're almost as cultish as the Bass Cat guys, and I mean that nice, okay. But I mean they're almost as cultish. And we got one of the one of our dealers specializes in in refurbishing. Do all new wiring, do all new carpet, change the motor, update all the electronics, do everything, and just leave the hull in the cap alone. And I he's so busy he can't stand it. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

What a cool special too. Yeah. What was the last year they stopped making champions? Uh like 2008.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

I think it was I think it was oh seven or oh eight that they were acquired by Stratus. They moved them to the Stratus line. So I think oh it's either 08 or 09, they called it the Stratus 2 Town or whatever it was. But now those are all gone. Okay. Um matter of fact, I was talking to Gary about it because Gary used to be the president of Phoenix. Gary used to be the president of Stratus, and Stratus and Champion were built in the same building. So I'd known him for a long time, and we just chit-chatted. But when Johnny Morse or Pass Pro bought White River, bought the all the Stratus stuff and all the Champion stuff, they came out.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

I don't know if they bought Champion stuff as well. I knew they bought Stratus, but they bought Champion 2.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Yep, it was all part of Jenmars stock, so they're all under the same umbrella. Yeah, but they crushed every hull of gone.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Gone. And it was just competition, the same way they bought Legend, Trick and all the other brands. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

So now if you want to if you want a champion hull, you either got to refurbish one. Or there are a couple of boat companies out there that have literally bought a champion hull or bought a boat in the free market and did a they call a plug. They made a copy of it to make a plug and are using that in the hull design of the element. They can't tell anybody, they can't say anything, they can't advertise it that way, but it's unmistakably a champion hull.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Well, I mean, the the Bass Cat 203 hybrid or whatever, right? I mean, it's literally off of a champion 20-foot champion.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

That was kind of what I was referring to.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

I'm just gonna go out and say it, say it how it is, Todd. But but you know, so that's one of my dealers, one of my dealers called me had a used one.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

And he says, Hey, I got a boat company calling me or a manufacturer calling me wanting to buy this boat. I said, Yeah. He said, They're trying to get a deal on it. He said, No, they're gonna pay me full price. I said, Your question is, he goes, God, you is it right to have them copy this boat? And I said, It's a great boat, sure. It's a great boat. We need more of them. So there's a couple of them out there.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Well, they I mean, we've seen this before, right? I mean, I've been told, and I and I look at them all the time, and I'm like, that's the Same dang hole, but my 721, right? I've got an old Phoenix or older Phoenix 721, and that that boat is built off of the Stratus 201 or whatever, whichever stratus it is, that's a 21-foot narrow hole, like awesome riding boat, fast. Um, so it happened, it's they find something that works, then you may as well keep running it. Right. Update it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

But there's just so many attributes, and I'm not trying to I don't know Phoenix anything, but there are so many attributes in that boat that I loved in Stratus and appreciated in Stratus. I mean my I guess they call mine a 21 XE now. And there's 250 boats, and that's melee on a river system. Yeah, I mean, it's a melee. And I get my boat's fast, it's probably upper 70s, low 80s, but I could put that boat at 72 mile an hour and drive through anything. I just gotta go. So I don't have to come off it because they're getting square or they're getting flaky here, or there's five boats up there. We pitch, I think it was 22 boats the first day before we got it before we emptied the river out. So now it's just us. It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

And you're running a 300R on the back.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

I am, yeah, that's but to be honest, I don't know why don't people don't buy more of the R series. Yes, I know it's more expensive, but that motor is literally built by a person. It's individually done, it doesn't go down the the assembly line. That guy puts every piece on. If it doesn't fit his specification, he throws it away and gets gets another one, or puts it back in the bin and gets another one. And that has been so good. I did have a problem down there. I'm not convinced it was the motor problem. I'm probably was a gas problem more than anything, but I lost an injector.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

But ran out loud. Even down an injector, it still ran 66, 68 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Wow. And and you get the ability, right, if you buy an R motor to call like a different tech team.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Mercury Racing will take your call immediately. And that's what I did. I mean, so I had a down a cylinder, so I called him and I said, you know, I'm not gonna hurt anything. And he said, No, it's not gonna not gonna bother nothing. You're not gonna be as fast. You'll be down about 10%. And I was. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Isn't that half of the fun of this business, though? Honestly. You can say that you love the you love the competition and you love the fishing and you love the the camaraderie, but that boat is the icing on the cake. Dude. That race down the down the lake or down the river or whatever. That is the icing on the cake. And you'd be lying if you tell me different.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

I mean, don't you think? I yeah, man. So I I was told this by a guy who's who's uh one of my really good friends, and he's uh absolutely is has missed making the elites the last couple years pretty close. And he said this to me when I was young. I remember him saying uh half of the fun, half in his opinion, and I kind of with him, half of the fun in in tournament fishing is that blast off and running down the lake. I mean, it's as cool as you get. It makes you feel like you're in a freaking fighter pilot, dude. You know? Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

It's the race, and it's and it's exhilarating, and you gotta pay attention, and you can't let your head get out of it. I mean, it's all those things. And well, how would our industry be if they forced us to fish at a pontoon? Oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

And and and I'll be the first to say first off, there's no sparkle, so so so yeah, our sparkle rockets wouldn't be a thing. Um you know, and I'll be the first to say we have had some bad boat crashes the last couple of years. So, like you, there's absolutely you need to be safe and do and to be careful out there. But I but but I agree there's a right way of doing things with that stuff, and there is there is uh there's something fun about flying down the lake. Um I think the dealers have to be take a little bit of responsibility for that.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

I really do.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Okay, because of graphs.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

They're much younger buying these boats than they ever have been. Oh college kids, college kids. I mean, look at Ryland, he's 19. He's not seeing every situation you could see driving a boat, and when you're in the hunt or when you're you're caught up in it, it's hard to stay focused on driving. I'm getting the next spot, and I think we just need to do a better job of just telling us relax drive the boat. You're driving a 4,000-pound rocket ship that will kill somebody when it hits them. So just be cognizant of that.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah, man, I think that's really strong advice because yeah, that's the the absolute truth. You are driving a big thing that is, I mean, it's a performance boat that we can fish off of. That's what it that's what they are. So do you fish uh uh partner tournaments, Everett? Yeah, man. Uh what's really neat. I I my favorite tournaments to fish are team tournaments. And and this year, I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to do there's a couple opens that I'll fish here as far as in Idaho that are team events, but there's a ABA, the Western ABA, put on a uh elite team series this year where it's basically um I want to say a 90% payback, and it's and then a championship, and it's 25 grand for first place, and it's got kind of a higher entry fee team series. And my buddy and I are fishing it this year. So we fish Shasta and then we'll head to Clear Lake. And so, but yeah, I'm fishing. I I love that stuff. Team tournaments, nothing like being excited with your buddy.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

When we take off, my partner is my spotter. He's pointing boat there, boat there, watch this guy, he's coming over, all those things. And I don't think I think that's super important, especially in these these team events. I mean, that guy's got to keep his head up, and he said, I'm not good. Well, he's probably trying to be self-protective.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, he's like, Don't kill me, please, Todd. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

Oh, yeah. I just wonder if everybody did that.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, I I actually in college, right? I think it was really important for me to learn. Um, and and I think this is the good news is it's it's all an experience thing, and so you need to just put yourself into those situations more. But but where I learned that was I had a friend, you know, from I was from Colorado originally and had never fished these big bodies of water with in the springtime where you have timber floating down, you know, these channels and et cetera, after a big rain in the spring. And so that's where my partner would be pointing out logs more than anything, right? Like, okay, there's one coming up here, like you know, hitting me in the shoulder right there, right there, this, you know, and just the entire time because they've got a way better view, especially in a single console boat, um, just to see everything and to pay attention while you're watching the wake in front of you, the boat in front of you. Otherwise, um, they can really see stuff a little further out. So I think you're you're dead on.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yep.

unknown 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

We need to teach more of that too. Yeah, I've been noticing some states have been making mandatory um mandatory boaters card license stuff, um, you know, which wasn't a thing on in every state. And so I've been seeing more of that, which I think is important.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Um because yeah, man, uh at the end of the day, none of this Alabama does, and so does Michigan. They you've got to have a voter safety course you you take online, but it's all basic stuff, it's about buoys and anchorage and all those kind of things. And I if somebody ever gets a wild hair and decides to teach folks how to drive a bass boat, I think they'd make a ton of money.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

I mean, man, you know, uh that's that's that's a really good point. I've seen videos, which I think are really cool, be a good way to create some content. So anyone out there, free tip here, go go get out on some rough water and do this. But I saw Josh Bertrand do that in a in a while back. Yeah, I think he kind of had this bass fishing education thing or something, but he got out on a windy day in the desert in Arizona on a big lake and just walked through. Okay, here's how you run and chop, here's how you would how you address the big water. Yep. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_03 53:38

Because I agree. I used to take guys when we were when I was selling Stratus. At that time, Stratus had a really fast haul and it tended to chime, okay. Yep, and most guys looked at the chime as though it was a uh flaw. It's not, it's the boat truly performing. But if you balance that boat right, now you feel what you're now you get to see what your boat will do, and it's not dangerous. I mean, it's you just gotta learn how to do it. But I'd sit them in the in the pasture seat or on the the council beside me and let them feel how you how you gently move the boat side to side. I try to counterbalance it, and all of a sudden the light comes on and they they get it. I think we need to do more of that. All these boats are on 70 plus now, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, if you're you're at least in the high 60s for sure with a with a 250 on a 20 or 21 foot boat. Yeah. Man, maybe that gives somebody an idea. That's there you go. I like it. Well, man, um, we'll kind of get things wrapped up here, but overall, good to talk to you as always. And uh sounds like things are things are cranking away. Boat market's strong, good opportunity for guys to refinance. I mean, rates are as low as they've been, right? In the last year. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

I think there's more to come. Okay. Um and so we over the past week we've had some some accidents, not with the boats, but with towing. So the okay, a couple of boats got got ruined, a couple of trucks got ruined, a bunch of people got hurt.

unknown 55:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

But I think over the next month or so, we're gonna do some videos on so each one of those boats that got got got wrecked, and I don't mean to sideline us, but each one of them rolled in all the equipment's gone. It's out of your boat, it's flung for a hundred feet, they're never gonna replace it. And I started thinking on the way home. It's how you gonna explain to uh the claims adjuster how you lost 67 rattle traps. You know, yeah. So I think I'm gonna have the insurance folks work on kind of putting together a checklist, you know. You don't have to list all your equipment, just take pictures of it. You honestly don't realize how much money you've got wrapped up in that stuff. And you can say you'll put 10 grand on it, I'll put twenty thousand dollars worth of equipment, but if you put twenty thousand attached in gear, that doesn't come close to the electronics and the rods and reels. No, it really doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

No.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

So we're gonna try and at least do a uh a consumer awareness video. So yeah, I want business, but I want guys to not call me crying because they lost all their stuff too, and they're can't replace anything.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

So I think that's super wise. Yeah, I've always heard you want to take photos of as much stuff as you can and let us know when that goes out. We'd love to share it, and otherwise, um, I think that's important for guys because you're right. You you the longer you're in this game, you don't realize how how much you have, and then you start going through it and you're like, oh, each one of these, you know, Mega Bass Vision 110s are$25 or more now, and I've got 30 of them, like you know, and then you start talking rods and reels and head just line, and you're like, You're right. Something happens or you know, stuff gets stolen. I would shock you. I would shock you at my swim bait box.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

They're beautiful, a little piece of art. Most of them I'll never throw, but they're beautiful. I think though, what I'm trying to get across to folks is you're in this buy, you're excited about buying the boat, you're excited about getting picking up your boat, you're excited about doing all this stuff. But you can't, you still have to attend to business. And don't just look for the cheapest one out there. And I'm not selling insurance to most of these guys anyway. Don't look for the cheapest one, look for the one that covers the best and make sure it's does the derby stuff, make sure it got equipment. Do your equipment inside the boat right. But we're gonna do that. They'll start working on that sometime next week and get it out whenever they can get it out.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

So I think it's wise, man. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 58:17

Well, Todd, as always, I really love I really love our talks, Adam. I think we could do it for like three hours if we wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

I think we could, and I think I I think my favorite part about it is hearing with like your 40 years of experience talking about these different boat brands or stories about things or how it all has come about, because uh, you know, I think I think a lot of our generation, quite frankly, and just the younger stuff, it's like you're kind of focused on stuff to somewhat in your age group or or what's happening now. And I I just appreciate hearing the history about it all, and I I think people do as well. It's it's fun to go back to it. Ever since I got out of the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_03 58:57

Our our motto has always been and my friends, it it's all about the story. So it doesn't matter how it goes, doesn't matter whether you win or lose, it doesn't matter whether it was a great experience or not. If you got a good story to tell, that's all it's about.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

And those man, got a lot of stacking stacking stories. I love it. I love it. It's the absolute truth.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

Well, Todd, uh always go ahead. I thank you. I thank you. Good talking to you, and let's not be strangered.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

No doubt. All right, guys, so that wraps things up with Todd at Rec Lending. Man, super great guys. Give them a call if you are in the market on the financing side or between boats or otherwise, trying to figure stuff out. Also, dealers out there. He does floor financing as far as on the dealer side, just a wealth of knowledge. Super helpful guy, and their entire crew over there at Rec Lending. Can't thank them enough. Man, it is uh March, so you better be out there chasing pre-spawned bigs if you're in kind of the mid part of the country at this point. If you are in the south, you're probably already maybe starting to see some beds. If you're in the north, you're still maybe under ice. Hopefully not. But, anyways, uh hoping everybody is off to a good start to spring. Days are getting longer, it's only uphill from here. And as always, please give us a rating or review on whatever you are listening uh or watching platform wise on. And we will see you guys on the next one.