Pro Tips for Catching More Fish on the Bank

As technology like Forward Facing Sonar (FFS) begins to dominate the professional tournament scene, many anglers are losing touch with their natural instincts. Zach Birge has built a career being a "hammer" in the dirt shallow water, and today he explains why he refuses to get caught up in the "screen fatigue" that is sweeping the industry.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

All right. Welcome everyone to the Sears Angler Podcast, where as always, our main course for you will be talking and hopefully teaching you more about bass fishing. And of course, that comes with some random rabbit holes here and there. Whether you guys are here to learn or just hear some bass and conversation, you guys are in the right spot. As always, I'm your host, Bailey Eichbrett, and joined with me is the Idaho's finest, the finest stash in all of Idaho, Mr. Adam Deacon. Dude, what's going on, man?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Dude, uh, not too much. Living life, busy, uh, playing the game and enjoying it all. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Dude, I feel good. I just like lost 20 pounds of hair. I just got a haircut when I was on the phone with you earlier. Look at that. And uh, yeah, yeah, we got a little mullet game going on right now, but the wife likes it. She she chooses what I get for my haircuts because I could give a damn what my hair does. Um, as you know, we wear a hat 99% of the time anyway. So it's whatever the wife likes, it's what we get. I get like two haircuts a year. So it's nice to get the mop off anyway. I bet, man, it's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Just in time for summer. He's gonna say, yeah, you're just trimming down for summer. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, we got we got that going on. And uh, as you know, as we're filming this, as this episode airs will be my last day of it. But I decided um the past couple weeks have been not so great in regards to uh the diet. Uh, we had an alumni weekend for all the college boys and had a little too many beverages and had Louie and Rudd up here, and they of course wanted the whole spectacle of you know the buffalo wings and the ice cream and all that up here. And I just like between that and family dinners, my mother-in-law is a hell of a cook, and uh she makes I just like gorge myself, and so uh we're doing a three-day fast to try to cleanse ourselves a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Dude, I yeah, it's it's probably wise. Like you and I were talking a little off-air about this or texting each other about it earlier. Like, I don't know, like it's uh it's something it's I think it's a good reset for a lot of people after stuff, but three days, man, that's freaking crazy. Like, I've done some intermittent fasting, like you know, 18 hours or whatever, that sort of a thing. But doing three full days is brutal. That's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, I've done two of them before, and they really weren't that bad because like I was fishing, I was on the move, whereas this is already pretty dang hard, and I'm almost I'm almost 24 hours into it. Okay, I started last night, and I am losing my mind because the fact that it's like three days at home working, and I'm just like staring at my fridge, and all like my wife, of course, like impeccable timing. She goes, Oh, by the way, because she was on vacation a couple weeks ago when I was out, and she's like, I brought you home quail eggs because she knows I love quail eggs, and I'm dude, I'm looking at those and they are staring me right in the face right now. I'm like, Wednesday night, man, Wednesday night, that that jar is gone. But yeah, it's it's tough. I just gotta keep myself busy and uh just uh you're allowed at least black coffee. You can't have any creamer in it, which I usually don't anyways, but it it is rough, but I think uh you hit like a weird, I don't even know how to call it, like maybe a flow state, if you will. Like you're just so focused, I guess. I don't know. You feel pretty dang good halfway through it, but towards the end gets hard too, because then you're like, oh, I got five hours till food, and you're just like your stomach's screaming at you, dude. Just like just eat, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Dude, I feel like okay, I I could see the flow state and the concentration factor. I feel like if I did that, I would number one be absolutely hammering black coffee. I would literally just be a caffeine freak if that's cloud. Um and then number two, I would I would probably overeat once I got off of it. You know what I mean? Yeah, and that's the struggle. So you have to read two in calories like it's nothing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, I I messed that up the first time because I'm like, man, like I just need to eat. And I just I ordered like the freaking 30 count, you know, Chick-fil-A grilled nugs and like milkshake and everything. Which it's not terrible because it's a lot of protein, but like I gorged myself and I'm like, yeah, I didn't really ease back into this thing like you're supposed to, but dude, it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

I have a I I know this isn't a health and fitness podcast whatsoever, but I have a hack right now for like it's still processed things, but I've been on the road a ton traveling and everything else. I meal prep a lot when I'm home, but when I'm not, I still eat out a decent amount, and uh I try to do it healthy-ish. My my latest hack, so underrated, freaking Panda Express, dude. Listen to this order. You go in, you get. I think I made a reel about this. I'm I I just need to post it too. But you go in, you make, you, you get a I think it's their bigger platter, which is three like protein items. So you get half white rice, half veggies. If you're trying to just straight cut, just half veggies, I'm sorry, just full veggies, as your side, then get three servings of the teriyaki chicken, and all it is is grilled teriyaki chicken. Yeah, there's a light sauce on it, but it's three giant servings of chicken. It ends up being like 110 grams of protein. But like you literally have rice, veggies, teriyaki chicken, and then just don't add any of the sauces, or if you do, like soy sauce or something like that. Uh super pretty, pretty dang clean, pretty good macros for being a and it's$13 or$12. Like you can't beat it. That's not bad at all.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

No, dude, I've never had Panda Express, and I think you've influenced me to try it this week. So we I think we got one here in Buffalo.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Get just straight the teriyaki chicken, and then like it's just a ton of food. Like, it's like a great if you're like needing a refuel after a long day of not you know eating well or big workout or something, like it's a not eating at all. Or yeah, exactly. Literally what you're about to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Uh yeah, it's I'm curious though if if anyone else has done a fast or they have different hacks like D can mentioned, comment that down below if you're on on YouTube anyway. But uh yeah, I figure before this little travel bender too might not be a bad time to try a little fast. I only do it like I was telling you every four or five months just because you can't you can't do it too often. It's just there's there's a science to it, but there's also a health factor of like you shouldn't do it too often. That's that's one thing, sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Starve yourself, you know. One of those things.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah, yeah. Uh well, for the people, today's show, obviously, you could tell. Um if you read the show notes, or you obviously are on YouTube, you see a thumbnail. We got uh we got the stone cold Steve Austin of bass fishing right now talking about health and fitness. This dude has become a monster uh on and off the water. But we got Mr. Zach Burge joining us. We'll get into his episode here in a little bit because the dude's literally he's leading AOI, a point above the GOAT right now, Jacob Wheeler, and he's been doing it all his own way, which has been shallow power fishing and finding different ways around that. And so we'll dive into dive into that. But we got some cool shows coming up in the hopper for you guys. We got Sam Hangi that's gonna come and join the show. We got Blake from BD Bassin. So if anybody uh likes the content creator side, uh Blake does some awesome short form content, great YouTube stuff, uh Midwestern guy. Uh, and then we got the whole surge squad in the works, which fired about that. Fired up about that. That's gonna be sick. That'll be the Tucker Smith, Paul Marks, Slowberg, Emile Wagner, who all had top 20s recently at Lake Murray. And a win. Uh literally and a win. Yeah, shout out to Paul Marks. That was freaking sick. Um, but uh yeah, I guess with that too, kind of our notion, what's uh what's been the little buzz around the industry?

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, man. Um I think the biggest thing here, speaking true industry stuff with all these you know stock companies talking about updates and everything else. Um reports in on Shimano almost a 20% sales increase. So it's an 18 and a half percent sales increase in Q1 in 2026. This is an article from Angling International magazine. Um, and man, what a neat deal. They uh I mean just to me they they kind of reference the high-end tackle uh industry specifically, just staying strong regardless, kind of economy stuff, um, and just strengthen in the economy. But I think that that's that's always the thing, right? Like, I think you you get to a certain point in angling, and you're talking to a guy who uses a lot of low-end stuff too, but there's that high-end market that just seeks to stay strong. It's kind of this tale of two economies of like there's so much wealth out there, man, it just blows me away. Um, then I think that even regardless of that, like people want kind of high-end gear, and it's kind of what it what it references talks about just the demand overall in the fishing tackle industry, but it's robust and good, and overall, just a I think a um a solid uh article talking about the tackle industry.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Well, I also think they've kind of been dominating the budget side too. If you think about the SLX, dude, like yeah, that's a great reel. I mean, granted, it used to be, I think, right at the hundred dollar mark. I think it's like 110 or 120 now because of tariffs, but like that's a great reel, like especially for that price point. I feel like they're kind of dominating in all forms and fashions of that. But that 28%, that's I mean, that's pretty big jump. That's that's something to balk at. So that's cool to see, obviously, in an industry we're worried about things all trending down. So things trending up like that, that's that's pretty good to see. But um another thing, too, quick, because I know you got a couple more items, but talking about Paul Marks winning his dude, the Nut brothers are back at it again. They went one and two. One and two. Uh, pretty sick to share the stage with your brother, but one uh went one and two on the the pro circuit for on Douglas. Man, and uh obviously that format too, we know is a forward-facing and non-forward-facing. So they're just they're here, bro, and they I don't think they're gonna be going anywhere for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

No, man, they are unbelievable, and it's cool that they're like building this brand around themselves together, right? Uh, I think it's really compelling. I think that big brands are you know taking notice and like okay, we can we can get both these guys and and build them out into something really special because they I mean at their age, like think about the longevity and runway they have in this industry right now. So super cool to see and uh just dumb impressed, man. Like, I just there's there's these, and all I keep thinking about is like okay, that's this person now, Trey McKinney, you know, was the one maybe right before that, Easton Father, you're like all these different crazy young dudes, and just the pipeline is stacked with them. The next five years are gonna be insane. There's gonna be so many new names, you know, like it just it's crazy. I I don't even know how to think about it, uh, because it just blows me away, all these new new guys coming up so quickly.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah, I think it's really, and granted, this is all prediction, uh, but it's gonna be forcing a lot of guys to either one really work on their their business side of the fishing game, you know, the media side, things like that, in order to stay in the game from that standpoint, but also look at it outside of not just going all in on fishing, if that makes sense, like have some business outside of just fishing. I think it's gonna be good for the anglers if they see that. Uh, because yeah, dude, all these young guns coming up, they're just freaking taking over. It's you hear of a new one every single day coming up. Watch out for this guy, watch out for that guy, which I feel like a while ago was like you kind of keep note of it, but now it's like you hear that, it's like because I remember Peg South, Taylor Watkins told me about him before he made his entrance to the opens. He's like, Yeah, watch out for this kid. I was like, Okay, and I didn't really think anything of it. I saw in the opens, I'm like, I think that's what Taylor was talking about was this Pake South kid. Now look at him winning two opens and having a hell of a good year, rookie year on the elites. Yeah, Mercer said it on live for Murray, dude. He's like, if you want to win rookie of the year, you have to be in contention for angler of the year. For real, dude.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

It's it's I mean, this there's such a tilt right now, it's super interesting to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, what else we got?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, man. Uh well, you kind of talk Paul Marks winning, the Nut Brothers, and then we've got heavy hitters coming up on Santee Cooper, uh, MLF BPT, right? Uh, super that's on orange. We got Elite coming up on Santee. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. Oh, you're good, you're good. Okay, yeah. He's coming to Santee this week, right now. As we speak. As we speak, it will be starting tomorrow. Um, and uh, and then we've got heavy hitters with BPT.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, yep. Okay, which would be interesting because I heard Orange is like super low. I don't know, it'd be interesting to see if they could even get their boats into there. But um, I heard Orange is like the big bass factory right now of Florida.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

So that could be pretty interesting. Like, are we talking, I don't know anything about it. Are we talking like multiple 10-pounders kind of big?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Like, I know there when we were at the symposium down in Texas last year, um, they were talking there was a some tournament they had where a guy caught a 14 and a 13, and a guy caught 12, like all in the same tournament, like big, big ones getting caught. Oh my gosh. And if there's less water now, that means you know, less area for the fish to be in, which means these guys are gonna find them, obviously. And so that could be some fireworks to to watch as long as they can get their boats in there. I don't know if the water's back up yet or not. For any of our Florida people, let us know if it is, but be I'm excited to watch along, regardless, as long as they can get their trailers in the water.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Dude, shout out to BPT for visiting some of these unique fisheries and stuff, man. Right? Like, as much flack as MLF gets on things, I mean, it's so cool to me to see new fisheries like this. I mean, watching them go to OHIV, like in all these super interesting places, like they are really trying to uh expand and go to new fisheries. And I think that's also just fun for the anglers, right? Like the same old, you know, as much as I'm excited to watch Sansi Cooper, it's gonna be sick. It's just like, dude, they've been there a bunch, right? The elites or Hartwell or wherever else. But seeing this new stuff, cool. I will absolutely be tuning in for that reason, especially if you hear that there's giants in that pond.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, there was definitely some negative that was brought to the field of like these smaller field sizes, uh, you know, and cutting down so much and basically cutting out a bunch of elite or uh excuse not elite, but professional anglers. And while that definitely sucks, it is cool in regards to I think there's a lot of tourism and communities that are willing to pay to get these tournaments there, but they don't have the the playing fields to to hold the uh a hundred person you know field, where 40 to 50 now is like you open a lot more horizons of where you can go. So that's that's a cool part, I guess, about that change is as a fan, anyway, of being able to see where they can go and showcase some different uh fisheries and things like that. So it's gonna be interesting to see in the next couple years too where they end up going different.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Dude, 100%. Super neat stuff. Well, as always, this bass boat uh wow, business from the bass boat section, as of just reading my hat bass boat uh is brought to you by our folks over at Rec Lending. Uh, if you folks are in the market for looking at a boat right now, looking at lending options, give them a shout. They will steer you in the right direction, as well as if you've got any insurance um changes and/or if you're purchasing a new boat, always make sure that you are covered the right way. Check in with the guys and gals over there to uh always give give yourself an opportunity. If nothing else, they're willing to have a conversation with you. Don't feel like you have to um you know buy something right away. They're gonna they're gonna go ahead and just they just want to help people out. It's it's really good operation.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Absolutely. Well, dude, before we get uh before we get Burge on here, a couple things from the Omnia crew is uh right now you can save up to$300 on Minkoda products, which I think everyone's trying to save money on that. I mean$300, at least right now might be only one gas tank, but at least it's a gas tank, I guess, that you can save on stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Real what a bad statement. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Oh my god. Yeah, I saw Rob Jeez post on his story because I'm about to go down to Santee in a couple weeks, and he's posted a gas station price at Santee, and it was like five and a half bucks for gas, not just diesel gas. And I'm like, not looking forward to that. I'll take note of that when I get close to fill up somewhere cheaper. Uh and cheaper, I mean like four bucks, I guess. But um beyond that, dude, some new arrivals to Omnia fishing. We have Rondamu lures, which I have never heard about before, which has been a pretty cool part about this Thorn Bros collaboration with Omnia that uh bringing in some really cool JDM brands, but they just put out a bait that looks exactly kind of like the Yamamoto Uni, but it's only eight bucks. So a cheaper option for people to go with. So give that a shot. Uh they posted some new Minnow style baits, new JDM baits from HMKL, which I've also again never heard of. Um, and they just stocked up on some hide up Koiki Thunders. I know you were looking for those a little bit ago, and that is a people are looking for the the Koiki full cast and 17s right now, but don't sleep on that, don't sleep on that thunder. That I just as about to say that that's such a badass line. Don't sleep on that thunder. That's pretty dang cool. But man, yeah, make sure you guys check in on that stuff. Always use our code series 10 if you guys want to save some money on that stuff, especially if you're a pro member. But um, do you know anything else before we get in with Burge?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

No, man. Excited uh to see uh what you you've got a lot of derbs coming up here, so excited to follow along with what you have going and then uh see you over this side of the country not too long.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yeah, I uh told the wife I owe her a week-long vacation of her choosing because it's gonna be one week down in Santee, drive home basically with enough time to pack my bag, throw my baits in another bag, fly to Clear Lake, which I'm hyped about.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Be there with our boy Chad for a week, fish at derb, fly home, and then the next day I drive from home to uh Cayuga, and there's four different tournaments over the span of two days that week following after. So big money tournament, and uh three weeks, three weeks of massing coming up ahead, and yeah, we might have to be out of out of out of touch for the next week following so wife and I can go somewhere fun. But I like it. Um yeah, looking forward to that, but also looking forward to this show. So without further ado, we'll get into it, folks, with Mr. Zach Burge.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

It's like good now it's time to get serious.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, yeah, I guess so. But man, we uh take two on this one. Appreciate it, appreciate you as always taking time out, uh, and especially to jump on here and drop the knowledge like you always do. We tried this yesterday for the folks that are tuning into this one, and it was perfect because we were on the water and we were even joking about how we love having our guests on the water for shows, and uh the good old internet said hold my beer and decided it wasn't gonna let us fall through with that show. But uh good to have you back on here, dude.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, they didn't want us on the water doing this, they wanted me sitting in my truck in the middle of Oklahoma City.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

The traffic driving my I think the uh the fish gods were trying to tell you, hey man, get off this dang podcast, go fish. That's what they're trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yeah, something like that. It's it's funny because like literally 10 minutes after it fell apart and I got off, and then I ran across the cove. I caught a five and a four back to back, and like two more good ones, and I didn't catch a fish the rest of the day. So I was like, well, that was good timing, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, see, there you go. It all happens for a reason. That's right. Well, what's uh obviously you're back home now. Um, what's uh what's the plan going forward? What's the next trip and all that?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Um I leave uh Saturday for the next MPFL event on Lay Lake. Um go there next. Should be uh should be a cool event. I've never been to Lay Lake. Excited to get there, excited to fish another MPFL. Uh those are always a lot of fun. Um and then we come back home. I got just a little bit of a break before Grand uh BPT. Uh of course I'm real excited about that one. Um unfortunately, I've never fished grand in June. I've never fished it past like late April. So I've never had a post-spawn event there, never had a summertime event. Uh it's always been like pre-spawn, spawn or fall, like late fall time for like BFL super tournaments or you know, something of that nature, old college events that were in like October, November. So I'm gonna get to learn a lot in June, I guess. But you know, thankfully I know the place well, like how it lays out and stuff like that. So I it fingers crossed everything goes smooth and I can figure out how to catch them good.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah. I'll be intrigued to see uh obviously as a fan watching you guys how uh how that unfolds and like from uh because it feels like grand always has decent average bass fight if that makes sense. Like I feel like it's a healthy fishery, so it's um I'm curious. Like, do you think that they'll be putting on any more weight at that point, or is it gonna be just uh skinny as a railway?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

I mean no, they'll be they'll be healthy. That's the good thing about grand. Uh the place is full of baits, full of forge for them. Like there's no shortage of food in that place for bass, and and the bass in there are you know it's funny. When I catch them there in the spring, they're always most of them are always fat. And it that if you go to like Grand, Lake of the Ozarks, um, lakes in that region, those bass look like they're built different. You have like a five or six pounder, and he's got this weird, like small mouth on it, like they're just built a little different. So I don't know if there's like a slight different strain through there or something, but they're healthy too, and there is a really, really good population of like three and four pounders, three to five. There's a lot of fives, sixes. Um, you don't normally see like seven, eight pluses, like big fish, big, big ones, but they're in there. There's some that are in there. There's just not a ton of those. Now you'll see more of those in the spring, but um summertime, there should be a lot of like two and a half to four pounders caught, like a good bit of them. Um, especially if you know the lake has fire and and everything's good, which it should be. I'm expecting a decent event as far as the fishing goes.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, that's funny. I I love bringing friends from the south up here to to north and experience some of the fishing, especially in the spring when they're like you're talking about just fat is all get out, and they're like, like this just doesn't make sense, like the body doesn't fit their head. I love when fish are shaped like that because you just know they're healthy, it's all get out.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah. Well, dude, uh mentioned the MPFL, and I want to get into a little bit of BPT stuff with you, but uh how is it for you from a practice standpoint and just like strategy bouncing back and forth between a five fish no scope event to then uh all fish counts and scope mixed in? Like, how does that do you go in the same mindset or do you change things up a bit?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Um sort of the same mindset, but truthfully, uh when I go for MPFL practice, like there's way, way, way less stress on me throughout practice. We get an extra day of practice, which is nice, but at the same time, I don't have to worry about the strategy behind utilizing a uh forward facing period. So when I go out and practice, I don't have to think and pay attention to my forward facing throughout the day and different places of the lake I go and different, you know, structure I fish and presentations I try to see whether fish are gonna follow my bait, whether they're you know gonna eat a jerk bait good. And I can have a really good forward-fishing period utilizing that versus when I turn it off, I don't really know if one's behind it or not. Um, or you know, places where you'll catch a lot of floaters out, you know, outside off the bank, you know, back side of the boat, things like that. I don't I don't have to pay attention to that, and I don't have to worry about that being a player throughout the competition days, um like in an NPFL where we can't use it. So it takes it completely away, takes that whole strategic plan out of play as well. So you go there strictly, like I'm not, I mean, it's not old school, but you're just traditional fishing, trying to figure out a pattern, trying to figure out angles and places and how to present a bait. And in my opinion, it's way, way easier uh just to go through practice. We we do have tough practices, like I'm not gonna lie, practices are still stressful at you know at times because you're like, damn, how do I how do I make one of these stupid fish bite? And you finally figure something out, but I generally I practice you know relatively the same. I just you take out the whole factor of not having to utilize forward facing for a period, which is nice.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Probably have to find either more areas or more places that have numbers of fish versus just looking for big ones, I imagine.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Yeah, and and the good thing about like MPFL compared to a bass pro tour. So, like you get in a bass pro tour event, and time is extremely crucial. Like you waste time running, somebody's catching them, they're pulling away from you because every single fish counts. So, throughout practice, too, for a BPT, you generally want to find an area of the lake, a zone of the lake, uh river, whatever that you feel like you can just cycle through, continue to get bit throughout the day. You know, go through a stretch, be able to have two or three more stretches close by that you can rip through and get bites, and then go back, start it, and go through it again and get more bites, versus having like, you know, MPFL, it would be totally fine if I had a place I knew I could roll up and catch one good fish, but then I had to run six, eight miles down the lake because I knew I could roll up and catch one or two more good fish. But then I could keep going up the river and I could catch, you know, the rest of my limit. And then I'm done at that point. Like I have my bag that I feel like is what I need. I can't do that in a BPT because by the time I run six miles up the river or lake, there's gonna be guys that catch three or four or five fish that already passed me. That they've passed me. Now I'm trying to catch back up. So that's just a whole nother like strategy that goes into effect when you compare like a traditional five fish limit tournament versus uh BPT style where every fish counts. Like there's it's just two polar opposite strategic practices and events, really. It's like they're just they're just different.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah. Yeah, there's really no brake pedal on the BPT, it seems like, where you can go and practice if you get your certain weight that you want on the MPFL.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And like I fish a lot more relaxed in an MPFL. Like, of course, I I I rip around and I run and gun, you know, from spot to spot, but I don't get like in a flustered hurry if I hear like I'm falling, like I fell again, I fell another spot, I fell another spot. I don't speed up like I sometimes would in BPT, like get rushed and go through stuff probably faster than I should, or go by a target faster than I should without making a couple extra casts to it. Um whereas like BPT, I get going in the mornings and I normally set a pace that is way faster than I usually fish, but I but as the day goes on, that pace becomes more normal. And then at the end of the day, when times are winding down, and I've really noticed this like this year, I don't want to quit. Like I don't want to stop fishing when lines are out. Like I still want to keep going. I I'm so like energized and ready to catch another one and just pumped up about it that when he says lines out, I'm like, dang, already? Like, I don't want to quit. Like, let's go another round. I want to go another round. But yeah, it's just you know, just two two completely different animals there that you fishing in. Yeah, but I I enjoy both of them. It's good to have it's good to have that mixture of you know a high intensity, high energy all-day event and a normal, traditional, lesser technology um event as well. It's it's nice to have that, you know, yeah, two different sides there.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Absolutely. Uh, and obviously it seems to be working out for you as you're sitting in first and AOI right now for BPT. I didn't check NPFL where you're standing there, but obviously having a good season on on both tours and sitting above the what is it, four-time AOI champ with the wheeler. I mean, it's that's uh that's a good season so far, dude.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah, it's it's been good. You know, uh I I got him by one point right now, which is nothing. Like, you know, he he's gonna top 10 the next two events. Um I would I would bet more that he'll top 10 the next two events than the chance of him not uh top 10 him. So, you know, I got grand, which is good, I feel like for myself to have a good opportunity at top 10 if everything goes smooth. Um but Sandusky is gonna be like it's gonna be the wild card for me. Like he's got more knowledge up there than I do, I'm sure. Um I've you know, it seems like that area. I know the last time I went there, that area was tough. Like it wasn't good. That's why I ran to St. Clair from Sandusky and caught a measly like 17, 18 pounds, but hell, I still finished good, got paid. But that's a long ways to run, and we can't they got that off limits for us this year, also, so we can't even go there. Uh oh, we've got boundaries that are set much closer, so it's really gonna be like the bay and the islands, that general you know, area, and we only have a 30-minute runtime too. So if we try to run anywhere further than that, then we're cutting into our fishing time. So I I really need to do a lot of map study, get a strategic game plan put together and capitalize there when I get there. And and gosh, I hope I hope we're gonna have to have a lot of stuff to go right for that one. And then uh Brock, Brock has me for Brock Mosley has me uh in second at MPFL by a few points, I think. So not really a big deal there. That's not something I'm really thinking too much about. It's just it is what it is. If it pans out there, it does. I really want this BPT one, but yeah, um, I've probably never had never had a better opportunity at an AOI than I have right now. So um I'm gonna exhaust all my effort into that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Hell yeah. Well yeah, it seems like on the MPFL side, like you were just saying, like you just go in there calm and cool, collected. As long as you keep that, I think things will pan out the way you want them to. But uh yeah, well, I mean, when you look at the field of the BPT guys, that I think from a a not not just a respect standpoint, but like a pride in looking at who you're competing against, that one I would say definitely means more like who you're winning out against. That is a lot more to take home in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah, I mean they don't get me wrong, they both have solid. I mean, we've never had stiffer competition in MPFL than we have this current season. So you know, that would be that would be pretty substantial there for me to win that. And of course, BPT, I mean, the whole field, there's no slacking in there at all. Like every single person there at any given year could win AOI. So, you know, just just to be sitting where I'm sitting right now. Um, you know, I've had the lead, Jacob had the lead, I've got the lead again now. Like, it's pretty special just to sit here and think about it, uh, even though the season's not over yet.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah. Well, dude, uh, with how you fish, you know, a lot of times, especially when I tune into live, uh, whether MPFL or BPT, you know, you definitely seem to gravitate towards shallower being on the bank. And in that in that tech age now, you know, is it do you find that the banks are a little bit less crowded, uh, especially a few years after the this whole technology craze? Like, are you are you enjoying being on the bank more because you got more of it to yourself?

SPEAKER_02 34:51

I love fishing on the bank. That's that's how I grew up fishing uh Arkansas River, uh, you know, for the first basically third of my life so far, and um cut my teeth there, moved to Oklahoma, fishing a lot of dirty shallow water here, and then you know, getting into some of that deeper clear water stuff before technology came out, you know, helped me learn how to fish like you know, offshore brush and stuff like that, and drops and college. We got to experience all other kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Could you just scoop forward just a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

You're right on the meter.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Uh, sorry. Um water guys. Um, but yeah. Um, you know, it it definitely suits me better being on the bank. So like I very easily at like at Beaver Lake, for instance, you know, I could have relied on a scope period, forward facing period, and then bombed it because I was not catching them utilizing forward facing. And I feel like I'm I feel like I'm decent with it. Like when there's fish that can be caught utilizing that for that period, I feel like I can I can catch some and hold my own. Um you know, Drew Gill is one of, if not the best, at forward facing in this time in the world. And I I felt good about myself because I caught more than he did at Headcrest for both of for two of the four days that or three days that we fished during our forward-facing period. I was like, Yeah, man, I beat Drew for two periods. That's like the only two periods I've ever beat him, but it felt good because I felt like I, you know, I figured something out and I did good at it. Um, you know, but when that period's over, it's back to all right, let me go back to the bank, let me do what I'm confident with, and let me do what I've learned over the years and try to make a bunch of fish bite, and you know, the bite generation is what I've always called it, and figuring out how to get more fish to bite than somebody else. You know, they don't have to be the biggest, but you just have to get them to bite, and I feel like I'm decent with that. So it's worked out well. Um, there's times I probably should have used it in a period where I didn't, but uh yeah, I've also had the opposite where I've used it in a period. I'm like, like Gunnersville was a prime example of that early this year. We went there and I used it for a period. I caught like a 512 and a four something, which are two good fish, but I only caught two. Whereas the next period I went out and started throwing chatterbait around the offshore, I caught like seven or eight. I'm like, golly, man. So I was thinking, well, tomorrow morning I'm not gonna use my forward face, I'm just gonna go straight to a chunking of mine in a chatterbait, and it was good because I caught several, I caught a bunch, and um ultimately that was a better decision than using it. But then two miles down the river, the only bridge that I did not fish around in practice is where Drew Gill and Banks and them were sitting there just obliterating them for their forward-facing period, and that's pretty much how their day went, though. Like they caught their weight that period and catch a whole lot after that. So it just you know, it just shows you a little bit of difference between, you know, uh how some people fish and how some people are better at technology than others, and you know, the benefits of having a limited period to use that, you know, it kind of equals it back out, I think. And uh, you know, of course, there is tournaments too where like if I could use it all day, I probably would use it all day because I could catch them so much faster. But every lake's different, every place we go is a little different. So you just have to be cognizant of everybody water, how the fish are reacting to it, whether you're gonna be able to benefit or not by using it, and just kind of play it minute by minute and day by day, especially at each of these tournaments, and um you just gotta be on your toes every minute of every day to keep making more money.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah. Well, uh, and talking about the bank, like you know, take take format out of the question. Just in in general, like when you're going down the bank, how do you determine in your eyes whether you need to go, you know, burn and chucking wine down the bank to okay, I need to slow down and pick this stuff apart? Like what what signs and things do you need to determine which one you, you know, which approach you have?

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Uh I'll always usually always at first go down the bank fast. Like I'm I'm usually covering ground as hard as I can, uh trying to generate bites at first. Now, if I go through a stretch and I'll catch like three, four, or five fish, and then I come back through a little later and I don't get a bite, I may spin right back around and go through it with, you know, like uh a little jig or you know, a little creature bait or something pitching around if it's targets or whatnot. Um, you know, like fever, for instance. I went down a bank and I got two or three bites, and I ended up catching them really, really good on a little small compact finesse jig. So I spent my first period the second day doing exclusively that. Um, and I caught them pretty good on a jig like 20 feet of water. Um, but I didn't feel like that was gonna prevail throughout the tournament. So I went back to my more aggressive, like swim jig chatterbait presentation, and I I you know ended up up the river a little further in the area. And you just kind of have to, it's kind of just a vibe you get throughout the day. I I don't really know how to explain it other than how it feels and what feels right and wrong. And you know, uh there's a pace that you have to keep at each event. And when you when you start your day fishing and you see the pace and how many fish are getting caught, you compare it to how you're doing, then you can kind of offset, like, hey, if I'm if I'm burning down the bank, doing this, doing that, throwing a chatterbait, swim jig, crankbait, whatever, I'm getting, you know, 10 per hour that are scorables, and I'm still getting beat. I'm doing something wrong, uh, or I'm in a bad area. But if I'm going down the bank and I'm doing that, I've caught 10 per hour, and you know, I'm in the top third of the field, I'm not doing something wrong. Like I'm I'm holding my own, I'm doing well, just keep doing it, see how the day keeps progressing, how weights keep adding up. You know, if it keeps going well, we'll just stick with it. Um, you know, and obviously if I I'm only catching two or three per hour and guys are catching 10, 12, 15, then I'm doing something wrong again. So I should either change it up or slow down or do something, uh a different presentation to get more bites. So it's always something that's constant change, like you just have to pay really good attention to weights, um compare it to how you're doing, and then really just have no hesitation to to make change throughout the day if you need to.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Yeah. Now with with the fisheries that you guys go to, uh, and obviously this is a fairly open-ended question, but like where you guys normally go to do you find that a lot of that shallow bite is more area oriented, or is it more pattern oriented? And I guess the the B question on top of that is with that, do you which do you think from a personal standpoint is more stable or more confidence for you to hold up, I guess, over a couple days?

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Um on a shallow bite, um really it depends a lot on where we're at, one, and two regions of the body of water that we're fishing. Um, because like you know, Beaver Lake, for instance, Taruk, for instance, um those are both places that have a good population of spotted bass, smallmouth, largemouth, and traditionally you're gonna have better largemouth in the river part of the lake, like midsection up of both of those, um, as far as numbers go, too. So I I would tend to stay in that upper region of the lake. Uh and it's not that case with every body of water, but just for comparison of where I've been recently, uh, those are good examples. And there's sections within that are better than others as well. So throughout practice, I you know, run this stretch, run that stretch, kind of daub around as I move up and keep going and keep getting bit here and there. And I get a kind of a vibe for what section of that area is better than others. And you know, and I look back on Beaver, Cole actually won it on like in a little area that. That I fished in practice and I fished the first day of the tournament. Him and I were around each other the first day, and I caught him, I caught them better than anybody in the War Eagle River that particular morning. Uh, but where Cole ended up catching them was just up for me a little bit. And when I went back there, nope, that was the same day. When I went up, went up there to where he caught them, the water was nasty. It had gotten pretty blown up from the rain. And that's when I was like, uh, like day one was good, but I ended up at the end of day one back down towards takeoff, and I figured out that jig deal late in the day. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna start day two doing this, and then I'm just gonna see how my morning plays out. Uh, so I caught those jig fish. But then when I went back up that direction, I got on another stretch that was just outside of the Worgle that I felt was pretty strong, pretty solid. The water was fairly good there, and I got a lot of bites late in the day. I was like, man, this could be a good this could be a good setup for a shad spawn in the morning if I could get here early enough. Uh there's a lot of bait in the area already that afternoon. So I was really had high hopes of starting there, having a shad spawn, being able to catch a bunch quick. So it wasn't a shad spawn, but I did catch a bunch quick. Maybe like maybe a little bit of residual shad spawn when we got there, but BPT, by the time we get somewhere like that, it's pretty much almost over, anyways. But I on my end, the the fault that I had for beaver was I did not go back and check that area again, at least give it another look, because what had happened was the water had cleaned back up some. The clean water had flushed back down and went through, and the lake had continued to get up a little bit. So Cole got into this little backside of this bar area that was loaded with fish. I tried to get in there um during practice and I caught some outside of it on like a little pea gravel bottom area. Um, but I I I probably should have put a little more effort into sliding back there where he caught them at because I maybe have caught some that would have had said, hey, you know, you got to come back and check this. And uh he ultimately he figured it out up there in that area. Um but like to your question, like that little zone of the war eagle was really good, had a lot of fish, and he continued to catch them through there. And I had my little zone where the white or the war eagle dumped into the white, that there was a lot of fish through there. And if you went like two or three miles down or two or three miles up, you up got real dirty, so it was really hard to get them to bite up there. You could still catch a few, but not as good. And then Wesley went further up from there and back to an area where it had a little bit of clean water and some backwater, and he caught really good in this in a small area as well. And then down from there, you could keep catching them until the water got clear. Once the water got clear, it got much harder to get them to bite. So, to your question, that that small section of river there, that two or three miles, four miles of river was really key in really like a 20-25 mile stretch of river up there. So a small area within, you know, a long part of the lake there was was pretty good to me. Um, and then again, like down there closer to where we took off from a very, very small stretch through there had a lot of fish on it, and I could go through it with a jig every day and and produce bites. But uh, you know, that's just kind of that's kind of how every kind of how every lake or river we go to kind of plays out. You end up getting into a a section of it or a region of the lake, the body of water, and it's a little better than the rest of the lake as far as bites go. And everybody's a little bit different too. Like some guys caught him good down lake, like Spreg caught him really good on day one, but those fish either moved on him or he burnt through them all the first day or something, and he had a he had a pretty rough time after that, uh, at continuing to get those fish to bite. But the little stretch I was in was a dirtier water area. Um I feel like there was a good population of fish, and I could cycle through it, you know, time and time again and continue to get them to bite. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Uh I guess with that, I mean, you kind of hinted on it. A lot of times when I'm seeing you do well, it's when you got a swim jig or a chatterbait or a jig in your hand. Do you buy into much of the whole new bait trend? I mean, I I I did live, I think it was your Facebook post, or I want to say it was Facebook, where you were like, anybody know how to get these koikies or whatever they were? I can't remember what you called them at the time. Uh, do you do you dabble much in that new bait trend, or you just kind of keep it chalk?

SPEAKER_02 49:12

No, I I do. Um I've you know, I've I've had a koiky on at every event and I've caught fish with it at almost every event, but some of them like I just can't get them to eat it for whatever reason, like tail rock and beaver, they'd come up to it, like tailor rock, especially. I could get them to come up off the bottom, like I could just blind cast it down in front of the boat, and like eight to ten foot, let it sink for a second, and give it you know, three or four hard pops, and you would have better than average fish, which I think were spawners, would come up off the bottom and get right behind it, like so close you couldn't see any separation between the bait and the fish, but they would never suck it in. I had one fish in three days of practice there that ate it, and it was like a four-pound largemouth in the clear water part of the lake. And every fish that came up after that and looked at it looked to be the same quality or very close to it, but I couldn't, I could not get them to eat it at all anymore. Um, and I feel like that's just uh that's just a temperament of the body of water we're at, the fish that are you know in that place. And some places we go, they absolutely maul it in some places we go they won't. But you know, I I had a very small amount of them and I was catching them decent in a couple places that we went with it. So I was like, man, I gotta get some more of these, and I couldn't find any anywhere. Uh I bought a couple off of Michael Neal, I bought a couple off some other people, and then I was like, some individuals were messaging me saying, Hey man, I got you know several of these. If you want a couple, I'll sell a few. So I was buying them here and there, and then uh Justin with Hag's company was like, Man, I got I got a good amount. If you want some, I'll I'll you know, sell you some, send you some. And I was like, dude, I would love some if you got some that you can part ways with. And he ended up sending me a box full of them. And uh man, I've caught a lot of fish on those, they work really well, they look just like a koike. Um, and they, you know, the fish, hell, the fish don't know any difference. They eat it just as good, I feel like. So now I've got like three huge brown boxes in the back of my truck that I take with me to events, and I, you know, they're so hard to store and they take up so much room in a boat that I have like my favorite ones in a couple boxes, and I'll put them in the boat through practice. If I if I feel like I'm catching them and I'm gonna be able to utilize it, I'll keep them in there. If not, I'll throw them back in the bed of my truck and uh have them ready for the next one. But I I do always try to stay on top of like new things and um and new baits or new techniques or anything that comes out so I can stay, you know. I feel like I'm still on that leading edge of things that could happen. But, you know, I have I have like four rods in my boat that uh Alpha Angler Mag Rebounds that never have anything on them but chatter baits. And I have them ready to go at every vent. Black and blue, green pumpkin, white or chartreuse and white, and then a bluegill color. And there's you know, several variations of each of those that I'll play with. And usually, at least thus far this year, I've been able to come up with a color combination between the trailer that generates bites. And once I figure that out, it's hard, hard, hard for me to put it down. Like I just want to, I was chunking mine that thing all day, every day. Uh, and the same with a swim jig. I've caught more fish this year on a swim jig than I think I've ever caught in my life. Um, and I don't know if it's just because places that we've gone or the confidence that I've gained in a swim jig. Um I've just caught a ton of fish with it this year, and it's just kind of a subtle variation to you know your chatterbait presentation. And I and I think a lot of that has to do with confidence and the chatterbait, and then when they kind of ease off of that, you can throw swim jigs a little more subtle, generate a few more bites, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Yeah, it seems like this year between both tours, like the swim jig's been playing pretty heavy on on both sides. I've been seeing it a lot this year, uh, between you guys and and the elites. And uh there is no shame there because one, that is a fun freaking bait to fish, and as a fan, it's a fun bait to watch you guys fish. So it's more swim jig the better in my eyes. But uh last two questions here, and uh we'll let you go. And that is, you know, you're gonna go around the country and and fish shallow and try to be successful there. What what top five baits? Obviously, you mentioned swim jig and chatterbait, so I assume that's gonna be two of the five, but five baits that you get to go around the whole country. What are you gonna what are you gonna bring with you?

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Swim jig, chatterbait, frog, uh crankbait of some sort, and um I'm gonna have to go with six because I'm gonna need a pitching bait of some sort, I'm gonna need a synko. I like it. So if I could if I could have only have if I could only have six baits on a day every event the rest of the year, or anytime really, that would be those six. I could figure something out just about anywhere we go that I could generate bites.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Yeah, cover all the bases. I like it. Um last thing for you, dude, and we'll let you go here is uh if you were in charge of building the schedule next year and you could add one new location that you guys have not gone to yet, what would be your vote?

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Uh clearly.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Oh heck yeah. Now we're talking. How big of a week, I have Oh, it would be really, really high.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

I I've I've always wanted to go out west. We've almost had it on the schedule. It's been taken off of schedules. Um, you know, I mean, obviously it would suck from a fuel consumption standpoint to drive that far, but especially at the same time, we drive to New York. So for me, for me, driving to New York is really no different than driving to you know Arizona or California or anywhere out there. It's it's about the same for me. I know the guys from like Alabama and stuff, they'd they'd cry about it, but you know, it is what it is. I I like I like going to new places and seeing new bodies of water and things like that. And you know, I haven't ever got to go out there and fish out west, and I I really want to. Um, and I get asked to go out and fish like some of that fall events that are out there, and I just I can't make those because my hunting stuff starts back up, and I either that or I have other obligations I can't get away from. Um it's hard for me to do it at that time, but if it were to be on like a BPT schedule or NPFL, then you know that would obviously have priority, and I would I would be there for sure. And yeah, I would I would like to go out there and you know, I ran into Skeet at Red Crest and he was talking about how good Clear Lake was, and it's always been on my radar. So I I would I'd like to go out there and fish that and just see it and you know get some experience out there.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Heck yeah, dude. I think I think everybody'd be in that same boat trying to get out there, that's for dang sure. Um, but dude, yeah, thanks so much for taking time out as always. It's a pleasure. And uh obviously the folks always love when you get on the podcast and drop the the knowledge that you're seemingly always willing to give up. So we much appreciate that, man. And obviously, we'll be rooting for you in this AOI race and the events going forward.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

I appreciate it, buddy. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Yes, sir. Well, we'll be talking to you soon. All right, folks, and there you have it, Mr. Zach Burge. Always a pleasure to get here on the podcast. And I know you guys love it when he's uh when he's on the pod, and uh he always drops some awesome information, especially diving into uh the efficiency uh of fishing shallow, beating the bank, which he's done very successfully this year, uh, to be sitting in second AOI for MPFL and first in AOI over top by one point, as he mentioned over Jacob Wheeler, which is a statement in itself being halfway through the year and uh just how he's able to do that efficiently, uh, you know, beating the bank, fishing shallow, power fishing, especially. Uh so hopefully you guys learned something from that. We didn't have Deacon for this podcast because we actually tried to film uh uh yesterday with Zach and he was not on the water, and unfortunately, technology got in the way. But uh no deacon for the show itself, but we did have him for the intro, at least to stop it and say hello to you guys and kind of break some things down for this show. Um, but we'll be having him, of course, here going forward. But uh as always, guys, appreciate you guys tuning in. You guys are amazing. Let us know if there's anything specific you guys would like uh talked about on the show, guests that you would like on the show going forward. We're all ears to that. Uh uh, we have some amazing shows coming up here soon. But uh, as always, you guys are amazing. Appreciate y'all, and we'll see you uh on the next one.