Ambition, Mom Guilt, Making Money and Being Yourself with Cat and Nat

On today’s episode of This Mother Means Business, Laura sits down with Cat & Nat (Catherine Belknap and Natalie Telfer) — best friends, business partners, and the voices behind one of the most honest (and hilarious) takes on motherhood online.

They dive into what it really looks like to build a business as a mom, let go of perfection, navigate guilt, and create success without overthinking every move. This conversation is equal parts refreshing, validating, and packed with real-life perspective on showing up, making money, and doing things your way.

In this episode you will hear:

00:02 — Meet Cat & Nat: from “accidental millionaires” to business owners 

 01:32 — Letting go of perfection in motherhood 

 04:54 — Coming back to yourself instead of trying to “have it all together” 

 05:54 — Confidence vs. overthinking: different ways of showing up 

 09:04 — Why you have to show up online (even when it feels cringey) 

 10:51 — Mom guilt, messy homes, and doing what actually matters 

 13:17 — Balancing ambition and motherhood (and why guilt shows up either way) 

 16:44 — Why “being a good mom” isn’t what you think 

 17:07 — Self-doubt, being self-taught, and redefining expertise 

 18:20 — How their business actually started (and evolved) 

 22:20 — Revenue streams, income realities, and how business shifts over time 

 24:05 — Why following trends won’t work (and what to do instead) 

 27:04 — Building a community vs. being an “influencer” 

 30:14 — What’s next for Cat & Nat (and embracing different seasons) 

 32:36 — Seasons of business: when to say yes vs. when to pull back 

 34:19 — Why older kids can need you more than babies

Cat & Nat's Links:

Podcast: https://catandnat.ca/podcast/

Cat & Nat on Tour: https://catandnat.ca/tour/

The Common Parent Website: https://www.thecommonparent.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/catandnat

Join This Mother Means Business : www.thismothermeansbusiness.com

Laura's Links:
• Website
• Laura's Instagram
• LJSocial Instagram 
• LinkedIn
• Facebook
• Pinterest
• TikTok

Transcript

Laura Sinclair (00:02.051)
Welcome back to another episode of this mother means business. Today's a big one, friends. We have two incredible guests on the show. They are based in Toronto. They have seven children between them, their best friends, business partners, social media staples, and accidental mom millionaires. Kat and Nat, as they're known to audiences, they share a brutally honest yet comedic takes on surviving motherhood and parenting. They've written two books, Mom Truths and Mom Secrets, and they're the hosts of Kat and Nat Unfiltered.

and they're on the show today. Kat and Nat, welcome to this mothering business.

Cat & Nat (00:32.028)
Thank you. I feel like we should really, we said that episode once, but we didn't pay taxes back then. We didn't know you had to pay taxes when that occurred. We felt so rich. This sounds so ridiculous, but because we had no business, being in business, we were spending money as it came in and the company made a million dollars without paying taxes.

pay some taxes and you're going to get knocked down and then pay your bills. We were at the point where whatever came in was profit. That's not how it works. Which is exactly what they say. They say like, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, like don't forget to pay taxes. To be honest, we thought that we had hired people that were going to make sure that we didn't get confused. That didn't happen. But we did get confused. Not as ridiculous as we thought. not that we made one million and we felt we were millionaires. Not the case.

Laura Sinclair (01:26.094)
So I need you to know that I listened.

Cat & Nat (01:31.222)
is

Laura Sinclair (01:32.238)
So I have to, need you to know that I listened to this episode on YouTube in preparation for our chat today from seven years ago when you, I think it was your first ever podcast recording, because it was like, we were uncertain of the buttons. One of you said that you didn't want to talk for this long. It was like, I don't want to talk for an hour. Can we wrap it up after 20 minutes? It was hilarious to listen to. I loved it. But one of the things that you said on the show that I thought was really interesting is you were talking about

I think it was you, Nat. You were saying that you used to have everything ready beautifully at home and you were such an adult and you mom'd and you wifed in this really specific way. Then you're like, gosh, I don't do that anymore. Thank goodness I don't do that anymore. I'm curious. Do you remember what I'm talking about?

Cat & Nat (02:14.266)
Yeah, she's... No, but she's killing a spider on the floor right now. I'm trying to. No, you gotta remind me, you gotta prompt me a little bit. you got her. I do remember those things you I know you did.

Laura Sinclair (02:21.364)
It's important. Get it out there. Okay.

Laura Sinclair (02:29.228)
We were you were discussing how different you are. I mean, this is seven years ago. This is wild, but how your approaches to like being a wife and a mom have shifted so much from when your kids were first born. And I wondered if maybe we could start there. Thinking about like, why?

Cat & Nat (02:31.942)
Yeah?

Cat & Nat (02:38.518)
yeah!

Cat & Nat (02:43.992)
my gosh, so sorry, seven years ago, I was already reflecting on how much I had given up on perfection. Can you imagine? I think also that one was even older because we did a YouTube, because when we started to record them, was it listening? It wasn't visual. I think they were old ones getting uploaded because everyone's like, you have to go on YouTube and do them. So that was even.

Laura Sinclair (02:52.717)
Yeah.

Laura Sinclair (02:58.646)
It was on YouTube, I listened to it. It was on YouTube. No, it was all audio on YouTube.

Cat & Nat (03:09.191)
older so you were giving up even longer than that. yeah. love giving up but giving up in a good way you know because I think I mean my total perception of being a mom and what I thought it was going to be like was nothing like it really was but I thought that if I went through the motions and I literally just thought about this this weekend too is that I was like to my daughter can you stop by and get some tulips because it's spring and tulips are out.

And my husband goes, Natalie, you can't get tulips because you never trim them and then they just break and you don't change, they die and you don't change the water. And I was like, you know what? No, I'm going to take care of the flowers because I used to go get flowers every week because I thought like, get the flowers, cook the meal, put on the outfit, do all the things, act like what you thought it was going to be like, and it will feel the way you thought it was going to be like. But then I got to the point where I realized

DoorDash and New Bereats came in and then everything went to shit. do... Pretending those things... I know that like manifesting is a real thing and all of that, but for me those two things weren't matching, right? And so it was such... The way that I was maybe like doing things was such a contradiction of the way that I felt inside that they were so distant that it was so confusing and I was just too overwhelmed with it all and I was like, I guess I'm gonna have to shift.

what I thought this was gonna be like and then find comfort in this new way, which in reality, letting go of all that kind of stuff that looked perfect, wasn't really who I am inside. It's not like I changed. I just thought like I'm gonna be a grownup and I'm gonna be like this, but I've always just been a little bit of a disorganized disaster. And so I really was just coming back to myself.

Laura Sinclair (04:54.85)
Yeah. No, I love that because I'm I too am a disorganized disaster and I too saw myself like trying to be this like super mom. I owned a gym at the time when I had my first daughter and like really everything was just imploding and I needed someone to be like Laura, this shit is just really hard and you need to stop trying to feel like you have it all together because it's actually impossible.

Cat & Nat (05:14.668)
was also like being with Kat was like we could talk about what we were really feeling and so being honest about it and having someone she was kind of like really confident and like you don't need to be that way like I was never that way like I was not that way you don't need to like it's okay that we could just be like this and I was like and it's you know that's why having

having friends, surrounding yourself around people who are there, like, you know, if they're moms or talking to people who have their own business, like it's so helpful making that connection because they make you feel normal.

Laura Sinclair (05:54.558)
have you always been that way? so like very confidently yourself and like this is the way so I'm going to stick with it or did it take you a little little time to

Cat & Nat (06:00.419)
No, I'd love to say that it was like confidence. I just don't think I think that deep. Like I don't think about myself. I don't spend time in my brain, if that makes sense. I call it confidence or call it just the ability to keep moving and not sit somewhere. I'm not an over-thinker. I'm like kind of just a, you know, it's so funny. I see my son, I see a lot of me and him and.

Laura Sinclair (06:13.208)
I'm jealous.

Cat & Nat (06:28.119)
Some would say he's easygoing, some would say he's confident. I just think there's personalities that just hover rather than like sit and like ruminate and think and just not a thinker. Like I'm a thinker, but I'm not a thinker about me. It's like not sweating, it's like not sweating the small stuff. And I remember when, when I first became a mom, one of the things that I say that what made it easier was stop sweating the small stuff. And, I did also learn that from her. Like when we first were like even just

going on TV, okay? was like biggest TV shows, whatever. I'd be sitting with her. It's like she didn't even like, nothing. We had to stop by a natural food store to get me some bok flower to put under my tongue because I was like, my God, we're going with a live audience on TV, nothing. Because I don't think that much about it and you just do, there's two options, you do it or you don't. I don't really see many other options. I don't think about, I don't think about like,

options. I just am sort of like, okay, this is what we do. Listen, I am crazy in some areas where I overthink like what hotel bed I sleep in. Like I do have crazy in me. I just don't sit and think about like me that much. And what's so good about being around someone like that and learning from them is that a lot of those feelings are for nothing. Like

All that anxiety and all that, mean, know people can't control these things. understand, listen, I understand. But it really is, it's a waste. It's a waste. Like you sprout gray hair and I like peel the skin off my thumb and I over, for what? I'm just gonna do it anyways. Yeah, you either do it or you don't. That's how I see it. Do it or don't do it, but don't think about it. If you think about it, you're wasting your time and everyone likes to play the what if game.

But I remember I was taught by someone to play the what if game both ways. So everyone likes to go what if negatively. You also have to play it positively. Like what if this happens? What if this is great? What if? So it's a, mean, I don't know. I take pills to calm. She has a natural calm.

Laura Sinclair (08:37.228)
No, I think that's awesome. And I imagine that that approach is part of why you've been able to do all the things that you have because it's like, well, what if this actually works out? And I think that's a really good place to be. I think it would be fun to do a little bit of like rapid fire business advice because I'm a person that receives a lot of questions as a business mentor for a lot of early stage moms. And so I thought that we could play a little bit there. Does that sound good? Okay. We love.

Cat & Nat (08:56.178)
yeah.

Cat & Nat (09:01.144)
Yeah, we love a game.

Laura Sinclair (09:04.396)
We love a game. Okay, so the first question, the first thing that I see so often is a lot of women are afraid to actually show up online and post the thing because like, what if I come across too salesy or too cringy? Now we just talked about what if, but I'm wondering if there's anything specific about like posting your stuff and just being confident about it that we could share.

Cat & Nat (09:26.552)
I mean, if you don't, you don't have a business. It's not going to work. So like if you're not going to do if you're not going to do it, then just don't go into business. Sadly, that's just the fact of it, because if that's your biggest hurt, there's so many more hurdles coming. If that is if this is the one thing that is stopping you rethink whether you want to go into business. And I mean that in the most sincere way, but business is putting yourself out there. Online is the smallest fraction of.

Laura Sinclair (09:41.24)
so many.

Cat & Nat (09:53.795)
putting of what you're gonna take a risk in. And also the least expensive way to market. It costs nothing, but you gotta be able to like, swallow your pride, put it out there and just know that it's not, what you're putting out there is not for everybody, but it's gonna be for some people. And for the people who's not for, who cares? Also, this is really weird we're having this conversation. If I can say what, no rapid fire, cat, shh, inside voice.

Laura Sinclair (10:19.148)
No, no, you go go. You know what? We're here. I want to hear it.

Cat & Nat (10:20.972)
I was just, I believe so much about like energy and what you bring to it. If you feel cringy about what you're doing, people will feel cringy about what you're doing. If you feel, you know, like what who cares, people will say what who, you are the ultimate leader of how people feel about you. So lead them to the way you want them to go and don't apologize or feel cringy like, because then they will be like, and feel cringy. So.

You lead how you want people to feel.

Laura Sinclair (10:51.33)
Love that. Okay, next one. I feel guilty about not doing more at home.

Cat & Nat (10:55.959)
Like in the house. God, as we're sitting here, I see a fuse. It can't open. I see chocolate on the floor and this teddy bear stepped in there and I was just thinking I should get a garbage bag and purge things every single day. How much life would be better? But I won't and that's okay. I literally just posted like a corner of my house that originally was supposed to be like a beautiful picture.

Laura Sinclair (10:57.261)
Yeah.

Cat & Nat (11:21.283)
In a little nook and it was just sort of like a serene space like there was nothing more you could put there and it collects so much shit and I literally like I had a like someone put like a friend actually DM'd and she's like She laughs and she's so neat and tidy. I'm like I need you in my life and she's like I'll cause one kid Yeah, but she's very like that. Minimalist. And I'm like you'd have to come over every three days Like this isn't a one. I remember when the person came and organized our house Everything is ruined now

Yeah, everything is ruined. I would say though that if you do feel guilty about it, like if you actually do feel guilty about it, understand if you're procrastinating or you just don't have time. Because there's two very different reasons why you do things. Because if you're just wasting time procrastinating and feeling bad about it, then do something about it. if you actually That's what I do. Yeah. And then you feel worse about it. So sometimes it's like a 10 minute block of like, I'm doing 10 minutes in this corner and that's it. So I think you just chunk your time differently. Or if you really don't have time, you don't have time. That's cool. Be OK with it though. Yeah.

Laura Sinclair (12:20.462)
I'll be okay with it. Yep.

Cat & Nat (12:20.739)
Most of us procrastinate. Because I think there's always time. I always say like, I guess I don't know who I am to say this, but I would say that people would think, you know, if you've got four kids and you're running a business and you've got all this stuff going, you probably don't have that much time. I feel like I have lots of time. There's always time. You know what I mean? Like maybe if like you are homeschooling four kids at home, you might not have time.

Yeah, you might not or just, you know, put them away for an hour and do the thing you need to do. It really bothers you. You can make time for things. For 10 minutes. I do think phones take our ability to do more. think they bombard us. So I think that if you really are struggling and you really are feeling guilty and it bothers you to the point where you're like, I feel bad about myself, put a timer on for 10 or 15 minutes each day and do something that makes you feel like that thing is off your back.

Laura Sinclair (13:17.208)
Yeah. Okay, love that. Next question has to do with showing up as a mom. And so a lot of the women that I work with struggle with this sort of push and pull between the things that they want in their business, their ambition, and being able to show up as a mom. Do you think that it's possible to do both?

Cat & Nat (13:32.566)
This is what's so crazy, as I was talking to a stay at home mom, who is probably the epitome of one of the best stay at home moms, if there was a role, if you could do a job description who does the meal, and she feels guilty. And because for not contributing enough the other way, or feels guilty for not, like, know, for slacking on not having enough groceries or going away for a weekend. I think guilt can come at you any which way. It's how you manage it because...

talk to anyone who's in a position of having all the time being a mom, they feel guilty. So it's just sort of like, how do you show up being a mom? You just do your best and realize they don't know any different. They don't have anything to compare to. And I actually don't, I've never seen a mom, even though it might look like a fricking disaster, I've never met a mom who isn't doing the best that she can.

Laura Sinclair (14:12.622)
It's true.

Cat & Nat (14:27.54)
Everybody is, even if you're not doing the same as your neighbor or whatever, you're still doing more than enough because nobody's trying to do less as a mom. And who are you comparing to? Because your kids have zero comparison. Just be happy. Just walk in and smile. Literally just walk in and smile at them and have a happy hello whether they're coming home from school.

That's all they want to remember your face. They won't remember everything else. They just want to remember mom was happy to see me when she walked home or you they walked in the door. Yeah, so don't let that guilt overtake your energy towards the kids because then the kids are going to feel bad too. So don't feel bad and they won't feel bad. Yeah, you don't have a lot of space. Take your space back and shift it to I have time with you. Let's be happy.

Laura Sinclair (15:14.114)
Yeah, was that was that difficult for either of you as you sort of as your business grew as your presence grew? No.

Cat & Nat (15:19.137)
We regularly tell them how lucky they are. We actually verbalize how lucky they are. I love being a mom. I verbalize regularly how much I love being their moms. no, I didn't. That was one thing that I didn't, I never really felt was, know, and I know a lot of people feel this, but you know, when you go to bed at night and you like regret you didn't do this, you could have done that. For some reason, I just always knew I was doing the best.

that I could and that I think I know I am a good mom because I'm doing my best. And I like doing it. I like them. I like kids.

Laura Sinclair (15:56.59)
I think if you think about it. I think if you think about being a good mom, whether or not you're good mom, you probably are.

Cat & Nat (16:02.27)
You definitely are. Yeah, most people are good moms. I've met very few bad moms, very few, and they're still doing their best. Bad moms, it's not how, you know. I think how you show up as your emotions is the most important. Nothing you do matters. It's how they feel when you're around them. Do they feel, if you're stressed, terrible, they'll probably try to manage your stress and be like good and do all the things. No, just show up and be happy. Like, well.

and also like when you're comparing like they make such like healthy meals those other people I'm just like all I can do is get like a box of KD on the like on the on the table Who it really doesn't matter? No, it really doesn't matter

Laura Sinclair (16:44.728)
Okay, love that one. Okay, one last piece of business advice, one last question that I often get is around this idea of like being self-taught. They say like, I'm self-taught or I compare myself to other people who I think are more experienced than me or I don't feel like I'm an expert at this yet. And so we have these stories that show up. I'm wondering what you would say to someone that's struggling with that.

Cat & Nat (17:07.878)
experts. that's so funny because we're all like, no one's an expert and everyone's an expert and you're an expert in your person, in your ideology of what you're delivering at that moment, which will change tomorrow. And I think it's just showing up with my, my belief, my idea, my, the way I've done it. Like if you really struggle with being like,

This is the way I think switching the narrative to this has worked really well for me and I've seen success in and there's lots of room for many ideas and that's why this is such a cool world we live in right now and you know self-taught that's cool that's great like you know chat chibi t has taught me so much that I could never have imagined um like that's a cool

pretending to be brain surgeons. You know what mean? Like as long as... You're an expert at your life. Yeah. And your thing is working and you want to share it and make money off of it. Way to go. Yes, because someone else will most likely benefit from your ideas too.

Laura Sinclair (18:09.336)
Yeah, I love that. Okay, when you both started sharing online, we started showing up, was the intent for this to be a business or was it coming from this place of like, we just want to post what we feel like and we're gonna see what happens.

Cat & Nat (18:20.785)
I I'm gonna take this one because my work wife slash wife beside me has always, thank God, thank God, been driven to make an income. You need that. I've realized you need that. I was bashful to ask for money or embarrassed to ask for worth or like, you know, I was ashamed to be like, I would never wanna say a price of what we would charge something and I feel like sometimes we would undercharge or like,

They're well, okay, we'll do it for whatever. And this one is like, no, like, and you need that in you. And I think sometimes us as, us too as women, kind of like we're not ashamed, but like we're not walking in being like, this is what I'm worth. We kind of devalued our worth. And I think that the, she has been way more business savvy with numbers and income. And you need that, cause I would probably be broke.

and probably owe people money right now, if it wasn't for her. And I think a lot of women struggle with feeling bad about asking for, I don't know that, but I feel like we don't want to talk about money. We don't want to talk about numbers. We're embarrassed to say. And I've learned, I didn't even know our banking information. Like I didn't even know how to get into the bank account. She literally did it all. And that part of me was just kind of like, ick, ick. But now I embrace it and.

Laura Sinclair (19:26.456)
Well, they do.

Cat & Nat (19:48.23)
I I understand it better and I think that don't be ashamed of what your idea is because someone sold crocs with that like, digits on like, their freaking, and is a bajillion dollar business. You know what I mean? Like, come on people. Like, people are making money off like, elastic bands or like, just stupid shit and everyone's like, wow, I'll buy that. You know what I mean? Like, things that you would be like, my God.

Laura Sinclair (20:17.966)
mean, when I first started learning about the online business, so I have a corporate marketing background and then I ran a gym for five years. And then during COVID, I was eight weeks pregnant with my second child and sort of shifted my business online and started learning about the course industry and things like that. And one of the first stories that I was told about the course industry is like one of the highest earning courses, I think it was on like Thinkific or one of these teachable, was a course that was teaching cats, how to teach your cat to use the toilet.

Cat & Nat (20:46.501)
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I saw like on Etsy yesterday, like Easter egg clues, a goat, like just that people had to buy. But you know what I mean? You could just make them yourself. Yeah, but no, people just buy it. So like everything is sellable. People sell ice, frozen water. Like really, if you think about it, anything is like really we go buy frozen water.

Laura Sinclair (21:02.658)
I know.

Cat & Nat (21:12.382)
that we have in our sink. We were sitting at a bar, like a nice bar somewhere, and they had imported these ice cubes that had branding on them. And we're like, how much do these people pay for frozen water as a marking on it? They're like, a lot of money. was like, wow, what people will buy. So if you need it, someone else needs it, and good for you. It's worth what people will pay for it. That's what it's worth.

Laura Sinclair (21:29.09)
lot.

Laura Sinclair (21:38.732)
Yeah, it is really common. see it a lot with the women I work with where they're not they're massively undercharging because for all those reasons that you just described, like they feel bad, they don't want to seem like greedy, but like we all have to eat and the world is expensive and you should absolutely ask for the money that you are.

Cat & Nat (21:45.714)
Yeah.

Cat & Nat (21:54.406)
And people will push back on that. And people will say, you know, like, people get mad at people who make money off things, but they don't get mad off magazines or TVs. You know, so it's just shifting the narrative. And I think that if people understood that, you know, you're, it's good for the economy for us to all be doing this and also be taking like as moms, you know? So like, way to go. Let's all support each other.

Laura Sinclair (22:20.765)
100%. I'm here for that. I would love to dive into sort of like the elements of your business. So I reference some of them. We know you have the podcast. We know you have the books. You have been...

Cat & Nat (22:29.437)
The books make no money, the way. They did, but like they just, know, people who do books, we, you just are an author. That's all you get. So you keep writing sex novels. don't make them. And by the way, we just wanted to write books. So because people would be like, oh, can so-and-so like come on your podcast? They're an author. And we're like, we can be fucking author. Let's go write some books. And yeah, the book deal, like the signing bonus, if you can get one of those, that's the money. After that, it's like sense. Yeah.

Laura Sinclair (22:50.104)
Yeah, you can.

Laura Sinclair (22:56.844)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Cat & Nat (22:59.153)
So, but yes, yes. So books, books. You said business, thank you. Pardon? yes. every year. So tour, tour, engagements, books, podcast, brand deals, affiliate marketing, the common parent, screen sense guide. It's always changing, right? Like the industries are always changing. like.

Laura Sinclair (23:01.838)
And you went on tour last year? You went on tour? Was it last year? You went on tour over here, okay.

Cat & Nat (23:26.968)
Income streams do change regularly, but yeah. It's also funny, we'd sit down with a new accountant and we're like, no, no, we just do this. It's just like tour and brand deals and then we're like, and then this. Okay, that as well. No, also that. Yeah. We don't even realize all the things that have just like, you know, because if there's more money to be made and there's more streams, we'll be like, why don't, sure, we'll try that.

you make this much to do one podcast? Let's do three a week.

Laura Sinclair (23:58.966)
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you I mean, obviously, we didn't start all of these at one time. They kind of naturally happened.

Cat & Nat (24:05.115)
no. Everything just kind of like, you have to kind of follow the river, really. You cannot be stuck in one way because it's going to shift again. And especially if your main platform is social media marketing, right? Like you are going to have to zigzag. I remember when, mean, America, they have a whole different ball game because they make money off of views in Canada. We do not.

Laura Sinclair (24:29.986)
Yes.

Cat & Nat (24:30.828)
So, I mean, they're making thousands upon thousands of posting videos. So we are in a different ballgame over here. So I think it's just you, it will shift again. Everything's just gonna keep shifting. So you just sort of have to roll with the internet, because the internet is in control, we are not.

Laura Sinclair (24:50.668)
Yeah, which project do you like the best?

Cat & Nat (24:55.43)
hands on the day. And I think if there's any of the things that we didn't like, we wouldn't be doing them.

Laura Sinclair (25:00.871)
Look, I like that.

Cat & Nat (25:02.274)
Like it's kind of true, when we list all those things that we did, we liked all of them a lot.

Laura Sinclair (25:11.65)
I mean, you would have to, to be doing it for as long as you are, right? I think when there's a balance too of like, you have kids and like, you might as well love it.

Cat & Nat (25:15.622)
I guess so.

Cat & Nat (25:19.64)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, it's just what we've done and do. Mm-hmm. Don't think that much about it. I feel like I'm brain dead. But they must be like, what's wrong with that girl? Yeah, just roll with it. You know, it's like, you know, when they use the word, back in the day, everybody wanted to be authentic and we hated that word. It's like, what's up? Like, you know, but like, that is pretty much the definition of how this business has grown and who we are and what we do. It is actually just, you know,

Laura Sinclair (25:25.922)
Yeah.

Cat & Nat (25:48.695)
our journey as moms and we're so lucky influencers weren't a thing when we started. We didn't have to become an influencer. We had a platform when influencers became a job. Like we literally did, that was not a word to us. that was, we had, we were doing this before there was video online, before there was video capability. That's how long this has been going on for. Like blogs were a thing and nothing was ever a plan. It was just like, we just roll.

Laura Sinclair (26:10.733)
Yes.

Laura Sinclair (26:14.562)
Yeah.

Cat & Nat (26:18.475)
And also we follow what we like and we follow where we're at in our lives. Actually, I do have a really big tip. And I said this to someone recently. I'm like, we are consumers first and we are moms first. Our content and our business is based on what we need and where we are. We aren't trying to create something for a phase we're not in. So I think that when you are a consumer first and you consume, you can't go wrong because it's what you're looking for.

and then it's your experience and what you're looking for, if that makes sense. Like whatever business you're in, if you look at what people are consuming and what would you would want to consume, and I don't just even mean, mean, content, mean, products, I mean, everything, that is the phase that most likely your demo's in. Mm-hmm.

Laura Sinclair (27:04.171)
Yeah. No, I love that. I think that's really great advice. Both of you are so competent in the way that you show up online. The essence that I get from your content, and obviously I've been seeing it for years, is that you just really don't give a shit what other people think. You post what you want to post. Is that really how you feel or is that just what you show on the outside?

Cat & Nat (27:25.243)
That's really how we feel. I think what we're really lucky about again is we are who, if you came in and hung out with us, we would be the same people in our house that we are online. if you were at our family dinner, we don't have to be an influencer. We don't have to get an outfit and rent a Ferrari and pretend it's ours. We don't have to sell anything. And we don't have to, like, let's just say when we're talking about any of the videos or stories, we're not going to pull up

the phone because we feel obliged. It's because we've got something to say. Or we are bored and we're like, hey, what's going on? Exactly. I need someone to solve a problem for me and they always do. answers are like, I am being influenced right now by the community. I'm like, so it's like reversed influencing. Cause I'm like, we need you, they need us. I just think that it's a real, it's a relationship. We don't, I don't, I'm not looking to be someone that I'm not, don't even know how to do that. When I see influencers now, their job sucks. I would never.

want to be an influencer. know and they have to take you know, and they like take breaks and they're like, I just really needed to walk away. And then they're like, I come back because I really miss you guys. I'm like, it's too bad that, cause when we say it, you say we miss you guys, it's like the audience, right? It's like the people and like their messages and stuff. And it would suck if that relationship stressed you out. When we see people taking content at events, I am like, this is terrible. I would hate this. Like we've done like.

media events recently, like we didn't do them for a long time, and I'm like, oh my God, like we don't do what they do, and I'm like, they have a hard job. They do have a hard a very hard job. We don't.

Laura Sinclair (29:01.262)
It sounds like one of the big differences between an influencer and you is that you really have a community, whereas some of them have an audience, especially having started it and being around for so long. It's that mutual relationship rather than you just sort of mass delivering information.

Cat & Nat (29:08.383)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Cat & Nat (29:16.186)
honest to God they've solved they've solved so much for us like they are like our it's like a month sick their moms like they're us they're like hey I'm like I've done this a way to get here like very much our audience has input into our lives and versa. Yeah and vice versa like a mom just said to me I met her at a dance comp and she's like I raised I raised my babies watching you online you know what I mean and I was like that's exactly what like when I first had my daughter I felt I needed to be

I needed people to feel like, there was nobody to watch, there was nothing to do, there was nobody to get you through, there nobody to suggest products, it was just like... It's like we're an extended neighborhood. We're all sitting at Starbucks or Tim Hortons and we're having a conversation and that's how, you help us, we'll help you.

Laura Sinclair (30:01.794)
I think that more people need to embody that, especially if they're building businesses too, right? If you're showing up for your business online and social media, you should try to treat your people the same way.

Cat & Nat (30:09.854)
Yeah, bring them along for the journey. Like bring them with you.

Laura Sinclair (30:14.146)
Yeah, I love that. Can we talk about what's next? I know you guys have the common parent, I'd love to hear about that. And are you going on tour this year too?

Cat & Nat (30:22.814)
We are right half, so. We're on a break because. My O-line visa expired and traveling in the States and working in the States, you know, it's like kind of scary for like if I go work there and I don't have no one visa, I can be banned forever and I also have. You could get arrested too. Yeah, and I have family in the States and I spend a lot of time there. I don't, I'm not American. My family is. And I'm American. But her family, it's so crazy, our story. Yeah, so I.

Laura Sinclair (30:41.358)
I like that.

Cat & Nat (30:49.623)
you know, the American, the tours in the States, had to put a hold on. And so we did a bunch of Canadian this year. But also our kids are, you know, people think that it's babies that need you around all the time. We could actually, it was easier to leave a schedule of what our babies needed to be taken care of with grandparents and dad. Then now the kids, the age that they are need to be driven everywhere, go everywhere. They have mental breakdowns, emotional situations. Problems are big, bigger.

And to walk away for a long time with the seven kids right now would feel a lot harder than it used to, I think. Yeah. It's actually really nice to be like, well, I mean, I miss traveling. I miss our team and I miss, like, actually miss the nights, but like I am finding it's like, it's a nice, it's nice to know we're not leaving because we'd come home, leave, come home, leave, come. It's nice to not have to have the mental load. Like we have to travel in April actually twice, like kind of a bit.

And it's like, okay, like it's like, are heavily relied on when we're home and when we're gone. And then we have older parents, right? So it's like, you're like, so it's just, I think we're in a really nice flow state right now. And let's sort of like, we're not overthinking what's next, which has been so long since we haven't had to do that. And we're just, we're on a lazy river at the moment in an inner tube, just floating around, just thinking about like, whatever.

Wherever we go, we go. And they were thinking about it. And the crazy thing is that when we're like, just things just appear and happen and sometimes they're great and sometimes they're not, but like, things just arrive. New things just arrive. We just go for a ride and see where we go.

Laura Sinclair (32:36.67)
No, think that's honestly like so refreshing because I think that a lot of women try to force things, right? We try to force it and make it work. And I know you're at a place where you probably earned the ability to be on a lazy river and floating, is...

Cat & Nat (32:43.085)
Yeah.

Cat & Nat (32:49.848)
debatable, debatable, but I will say that you... That point is kind of true because there was a time in the first while that we didn't say no and we, even if it didn't seem like it was that important, we always showed up. We never turned anything down. I mean, we're talking that we were like nine months pregnant. We were two days out of having a baby. It was...

In reality, a lot of people would say that's not important for you to be there and show up. But I think one of the things that a lot of people miss out on or why they don't succeed, it's consistency. And it's like, people need to count on you to be there and you need to prove that you're reliable. And in the beginning, you don't have the luxury to be like,

No, actually, I'm not going to go to that. We're not going go that. we don't like that. Or we're not being paid to do that. We're not going to do that. It was it was kind of always a yes for a long time.

Laura Sinclair (33:52.302)
No, I think that's an important thing to name, right? Is there's different seasons. And one of things that I love when I talk to moms with kids that are older, and this seems to be a theme of moms that have teenagers as the big feelings. And it is, they actually need you a little more. It's not like the physical hands-on wiping bums, giving snacks, but it's like the big, big emotions, the big attachments that need to be there. Because I mean, shit, I think about what I was like when I was a teenager. My daughter's eight and I'm concerned. It's going to be a trip.

Cat & Nat (34:19.487)
Yeah, know. No, think that, I think that you know that you know if you're confused what season you're in, just like you know that the seasons get easier to name as you get experience and you get, you just need experience in order to manage more. In the beginning, you're so concerned with making money. We were too. And then you kind of have to like step back and be like, okay, like what's important, what's not, where do I want to grind, where do I not? You kind of earn, you earn the ability to.

Pick and choose, where in the beginning you don't as much because you don't have the experience to know.

Laura Sinclair (34:53.41)
Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you have choices and that you get to pick the ones that are right for you in this season. Yeah, what's going on in the US, it's a lot. It's a lot, but I'll look forward to you touring again, hopefully soon. I'd love to come. I'll message Sarah. I'll find my way there. Kat, thank you so much for coming and being on the show. I'm sure that most of our listeners know who you are, but if you're open to just sharing how they can find you online and learn more about what you're doing.

Cat & Nat (34:55.255)
Thank

Cat & Nat (35:08.886)
Yeah

I love Sarah.

Cat & Nat (35:18.922)
You never know.

Cat & Nat (35:23.67)
You know, we're cat and nat everywhere with a C. Like a kitty cat, kitty cat, that's weird. Should be C-I-T-T-Y. You know what mean? Yeah. Kitty cat, weird. Yeah. Anyways, we are cat and nat anywhere. We have a podcast. At The Common Parent. And our favorite person works for her. We have a team over there. And I think we have scared her to death about online. She's like, ugh.

But you know, we do the work on the common parents, so parents don't have to, because it's changing every day.

Laura Sinclair (35:55.606)
Yeah, I'm not, like I said, I'm not there yet, but I'm scared and I will be downloading all of the resources and buying all of the things because please teach me. Help us. Yeah, it's wild, wild, wild. Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with us and making time for the show today. I really appreciate it.

Cat & Nat (36:01.844)
Yeah, and it's going to keep changing.

Cat & Nat (36:12.828)
You are wonderful and good luck on Wednesday. We'll be pulling for you thinking of you. You're going to kill it though.

Laura Sinclair (36:15.918)
Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you for listening. We'll see you on the next episode.

Cat & Nat (36:22.527)
Bye.