SPEAKER_00 0:00

Title to Jesus to the future. This is to be vision without action is merely a dream. Action without vision is a waste of time, and vision with action can change the whole world. We will speak to you. The question is, are you listening?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

And away we go.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

Welcome to the Real Straight Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Brianna, and I'm joined by two amazing men. My brother, Jonathan Klingaberg, campus pastor at Fort Worth, and my father. What is your official title, Pastor Jeff?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Founding pastor, lead pastor of High Ridge Family. Big dog. PJ for Pastor Jeff. Just call me when it's time to eat.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Perfect. Okay, so our podcast is to help you gain strength in your life and your spirit, soul, and body. That is the core behind the real strength. And we're going to just dive into the story of Jonathan. We haven't ever had you on the podcast, which is sad to have you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Hang on, hang on, hang on. We have a big announcement to make for the podcast audience. Those of you that are already know that little bulge right there is because Brianna is expecting a little boy in August.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

Yes. We are five and a half months pregnant, so it's officially something I cannot suck in. T'as present on the podcast. Yep. Congratulations. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Major.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

You're going to be a great mother. Y'all are going to be a dynamic parent combo, no doubt in my mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Thanks, Dad. Appreciate that. Yeah, appointment this morning was great. So we're tracking right along and everything looks healthy and normal. She said, My baby could not be more of the status quo normal. Just like every marker is exactly the marker you aim for.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Okay, I interrupted. But so get us back on track.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

No, I'm glad you did. So it explains this. This is not holiday weight gain. This is a child. And if I get breathless or have been breathless, that's why. But yes, Jonathan, we haven't had you on our podcast. Yeah. Who is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

And I think it's important to know that I believe that I'm the first son to be on the podcast. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05 2:14

I think you are.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

I think it officially puts that that I am the favorite of the three sons.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

I think you are the first on the podcast. We've had Tara. We've had mom. Have we had anybody else?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Brandon was on here before me. So actually, maybe I'm not. Oh, that's right. But that was setting up so that they would go ahead and connect and the father of your child.

SPEAKER_05 2:36

My husband, and then the father of my child. Yes, we did shoot a podcast the month before or two months before he asked me out. So that that is true. I wouldn't say the podcast is why he asked me out, but we did have fun with that podcast.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

That was a good one. Yeah, it was a great one. If you haven't listened to it or watched, go back, it was a good one. What'd you talk about marriage and family and then? Well, Brianna got embarrassed a bunch of times.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

I did not. I did not. We laughed a lot though. Okay, anyway. So yes, thank you, Jonathan. You know what's surprising? We have actually approached more family members to be on the podcast, but we actually get turned down more by family members to be on the podcast than we do other guests because you don't pay me enough. You're right. We really don't. We do not offer any finances for you to sit here and do it.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I I think all that food that you eat at our house is plenty of payment. Yeah. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Jeremy was like, no one needs to hear me talk about anything that long, which I disagree with. Um Addy's always had like 15 million jobs. Maybe she could. She'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

She'll be well, everybody works two jobs. Yeah, but she worked too, Brandon works too, John works too, Addie works too. It's true. Jeremy works too, Bethany works too.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Tara works one.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Tara, Clay. Josai and Ricky. But more if you work two jobs than work one.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

It's very true. Oh man, it'd be so funny to have Josiah on this podcast. Could you imagine?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

No, it wouldn't. I'd be sweating. I'd be sweating drops of blood.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

Sweating drops of blood now.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Who knows what that boy would say?

SPEAKER_05 4:12

Let's let the viewers vote that Josai gets on our next podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

I would say let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

I've got Trump's ace. I get to vote. Trump's ace. Yeah, that's my my card Trump's everything. All right, let's talk about Jonathan's call to ministry. What do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_05 4:28

Um so you are you a Christian?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

I am. Okay, good.

unknown 4:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

I wondered of faith, please. Credentials.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Well, that is uh that that is uh concerning if you've wondered. We should talk about that.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

When did you stop wondering?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

I haven't. And I'm your campus pastor here at Fort Worth, so buckle up.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Uh, but that's a new thing. So I would love to start actually at the beginning. Sure. I have a lot of context of your life, having watched your life unfold before me. And you know, we did a lot of life together. We shared a car because you wrecked the car that would have allowed us to have two different cars. How many cars did he wreck? We had more time together. I think that's really why you hit the deer.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

You're like, if I hit this deer It was really the deer's fault, and in fact I saved Middlesi's life.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

You wrecked you wrecked the silver car.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

The green car. The green machine. You wrecked the green car, the green machine. And you wrecked the white tutor twice.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Uh no, that was just that that that was mechanical hindrances. No, one of them was a a a sack full of sticks in the middle of the road, and there was nowhere for me to go. There's a car on my left and my right.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, when you're on your phone driving, that's what happens. No, not at that time.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Not at that time.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Did you have a phone at that time?

SPEAKER_02 5:45

I did. Yeah, but I wasn't at my phone. That's not safe driving down.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Okay, back on track.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Anyway, I've gotten a a chance to sit very close to your life via the same car and also similar life stages. We did sports together, we did we had a lot of friend groups that mix well together, so I know a lot about your life, but I think the general population does not know your story and misses a lot of context that goes into making you who you are. So feel free to start as young as you like. We're gonna take us back to and kind of fill us in on the becoming of Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Uh do you wanna how far back do you want me to go?

SPEAKER_05 6:24

Well, um, you've had some things in your childhood that really defined you, really marked you, challenged you, grew you.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah. Well start with when you when you met the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, that's a great one. So I met the Lord at a pretty young age, about uh about seven years old. Um, and it's kind of funny because I remember that night, mom and dad were having a a small group in the little kitchen area in the kitchen nook area fed into the living room, and we're sitting there playing, and I just kept doing stuff to you. I was grabbing cars and hitting you with them.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

Oh, to me, yes. And uh you're one of the reasons I had three unfavorable haircuts.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

That's right. And this was one of them. I had uh one of those wind-up cars that you kind of put on the on the ground and you just kind of let it go and it just shoots off. And I was like, I wonder what this would do on my sister's head. And so I wound it up and just sat it right there, and it just got all up in your hair. And I remember mom she had told me multiple times, you know, she gave me that look when she looks at you and she's like, You better straighten up. So I just kind of saw her and I kind of wondered in my mind, she's got a small group, she's not gonna do anything. So I can, I've got free reign here. And uh I went ahead and I and I did that to your hair, and she got up, didn't lose eye contact with me, and I just started melting. I'm just like, this is it. My life, my life is over. And she took me to the back room and and we talked, and you know, we we talked through my decisions and while I was doing that, but then she presented the gospel, and uh, and in that moment I had an understanding of of what grace was, of of who Jesus was and what he what he came to do and and what a relationship with him looks like and and uh and so I prayed that prayer with her that night and um and and uh still got a spanking. Okay, so for those of you wondering, I didn't do it to get out of the spanking, I still got it, uh, and I deserved it.

SPEAKER_05 8:17

Genuine faith conversion.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah, and um and yeah, and and uh yeah, my my story is one of those where uh I look I look back, I don't have this large testimony of all these crazy things that happened, and then I met the Lord and and it changed. My my story, my testimony is one of God's faithfulness of his hand in my life as I look back and and and and I examine it, it's really the Lord, his protection, his calling, his purpose for me in in allowing me to meet him at a young age. And and a lot of things happened even when I was young as well, that uh that that you know I I got to develop through and and uh the Lord just he he kept me safe. I still made stupid decisions. Even with the hey Jonathan, don't don't do that, that's not gonna be good. And I still made decisions that ran through that and um paid the price for that for sure, but but really getting to sit here today to to do what I get to do is a huge blessing and an honor because you know it's I it it's one of those things that I don't deserve to do it except for the Lord. He's the one that the one that established me to do so.

SPEAKER_05 9:21

Well we went from finding the Lord to all the way to now. So let's go back to finding the Lord. Um one of the key things for me when you became a Christian is you decided that I needed to become a Christian. So you became Mr. Evangelist of the household and all friend groups and every playground. Really everywhere that you weren't sure if someone was gonna go to heaven, you were evangelizing that space. You one time, you know, when you open a door, um, there's a space between the door and the wall that kind of narrows in, you know, until it goes all the way against the wall. You had me trapped behind the door, and you were holding the door and you had your hand on the wall, and you're like, You need to be a Christian. It's time for you to be a Christian. If you die, you're going to hell. And I don't want you to go to hell. And I was like, I don't want to go to hell. I'm crying, and then mom comes into your and you're five years old or six years old. I was five probably. Yeah. And mom comes in, she's like, Jonathan, you cannot force your sister to decide to follow Christ. She will make her own decision in her own time.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah. I believed in Scared Straight, you know. She really did.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

You had me block off the slide at playgrounds.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

We did. Yeah, I remember that. So we we uh back in that time, we were kind of uh semi-homeschooled. We were going to Grace Prep, and they they do kind of that that model where it's like Tuesday, Thursday, or Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so Bethany and Jeremy were at school. I can't remember what day it was, but we were with mom, me, Josiah, and you. And at that time, mom was working with Josiah and told us to go play. And so we're at like Burger King or something like that. And uh uh Josiah's doing schoolwork and we're up in the playground, and I told Brandon, I was like, we're getting these kids safe today, like it's happening today. And uh so we would go and we would identify some child in the playground, and we would block off both exits, and I would I would scare him.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

He says we identified the child, he identified the child, and he'd be like, Go block that exit. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I was like, dude, do you want to go to hell? No, you need to know Jesus. And he's like, What does that mean?

SPEAKER_05 11:17

Because he's like seven, yeah, he should just be able to go down the slide.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah, he's great. So yeah, we had a lot of converts, very high success rate, and also lots of parents being concerned that uh their child was crying.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Well, yeah, so at the park, when uh you're in between games, I think, and your brother's playing, and you're there, and you all go to the to the to the slide, the big giant jungle gym thing, and kid you talk kids into climbing up on the roof.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Oh, that's Benbrook Park. That was the robot.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

The robot.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah, climbing up on the robot, and then you wouldn't let them come down the slide or get down until they prayed to receive Christ.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

And so then one of the kids came over complaining to their parents, I couldn't go down the slide because I wasn't a Christian.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

Yeah. How'd you feel as a parent and how'd you navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah, were you proud or scared? Yes, and yes.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

Is that something that got c corrected out of us? Like I don't really remember. I know we stopped doing it.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

You stopped doing it because parents complained. I think it just happened the one time. And so I told you all, we we don't make anybody, we don't make it difficult, we become friends. So make friends with with these kids and then and then talk to them about the Lord. But don't make it to where they can't get down off the top of the roof of the of the playground until they receive Christ, because that's that's not the way we do it.

SPEAKER_05 12:40

Yeah. Well, is that why you had so many friends? Because you had the most friends out of anyone in our family, probably.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

W no. Well, is that why I had so many friends? No, I just uh I don't know. It's just I just like having having friends. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

I don't know how to just I remember you always had a posse, like every stage of life, you always had a group of people around you. Um and that never changed through every grade, through all of our schools, through college, even in work, you always had this like the boys. He just has that kind of gathering, we're all friends here, kind of anointing.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I don't don't want people to miss out.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, so that would be a good one for parents to at this moment. If you've got a child that always has a posse, likes to gather kids around, likes to be with a bunch of people, draws a bunch of people, could be that there's a spiritual anointing on their life for ministry, because that makes for for great leadership in church whenever somebody is a people person and and has the capacity to reach other people and gather other people.

SPEAKER_05 13:47

Yeah. A hundred percent. So you got saved at what age?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Seven. Seven and then baptized shortly after. Where I forgot where each kid was baptized. Where were you baptized?

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I was baptized in the Grace Hot Tub. And in fact, that was the first time that I saw you cry. And I remember that as a kid. Oh like the fur uh the first memory I can remember of you crying was when you baptized me.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I was so thankful. So thankful.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

And then you wondered about his salvation after that.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

You still kept crying, he never stopped crying.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Um so from seven until um let's go to like junior high, high school, working your faith out, you started experiencing um some solidif solidification in your faith and also some challenges in your health. You walked through your own health development.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yeah, sure. Yeah, so so yeah, now that kind of from from young young childhood, I had what what they the uh doctors identified really as the slow growth gene. Uh I can't remember the technical term, but I remember going to the doctor and then running a bunch of tests and taking blood and and doing all kinds of stuff and trying to figure out why I wasn't growing like my friends were.

SPEAKER_05 15:03

And um around what age did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Those tests were done when I was in seventh grade, I believe, sixth or seventh grade. Twelve or thirteen. And uh, I was always much smaller than my friends, and that could be a reason why I had so many friends, because if I was friends with everybody, then they couldn't beat me up. Um, not that they they would try, I'd probably rip all their ears off. But um, but that but that type of that that growth that really determined and and helped kind of shape who I was because uh being so small growing up, I didn't like people telling me that I couldn't do something. And so I remember the doctor um at a young age saying, I'm never gonna grow over five's eight, I'm never gonna get over 160 pounds, um, I it's not good for me to play football or play basketball. I should stick with like chess or music or something like that. And I remember looking at this dude, and in my mind I'm like, dude, dude, forget you. Like I refuse to accept that. And so that kind of, in fact, I turned it on its head and I was like, man, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be that much better at basketball. And and that drove me to want to practice to where I was amide extras with the ball. And yes, I I'm not gonna get any rebounds, but I'm gonna steal the ball from you because I'm quicker than you. I was, you know, itty bitty, but I weighed nothing and could accelerate. And so um, and so I did well in basketball because of that, and I think created a tenacity uh in sports, but it also carried over into life. When somebody would tell me I couldn't do something like a rule for good reason, I would be, I would want to test it and just and see why that rule is there. And um, does that rule actually apply to me? So they kind of had to double edge to that, but um that kind of helped shape who I was and and uh created a tenacity within me that uh uh that just carried on. I mean, it carried on even through high school with sports, into career field. Um at a young age as well. I remember uh people saying, Hey, you're gonna be just like your dad and you're gonna go into ministry. And again, here comes that that that wall of like you're not gonna tell me what to do. And so I just refused to accept that. That's to what my dad does. I don't want to do that. Uh I want to create my own path. I want to go follow what whatever the Lord has for me to do and and and create my own way. And so for forever, I that was my dream was to go do something else than that. And I was gonna go anything. Yeah, I was gonna go be a pilot. That was my that was my dream to remember that go be a pilot, and I got to fly some planes. In fact, on my 18th birthday, we almost died because the the sea plane that we were flying uh uh had an engine malfunction, and anyway, that's a crazy story. Had to have a water landing, right? No, uh they were prepared for that, but we landed at at Meachum and uh and so that's a good story.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That's a good story, yeah. So you express interest in piloting. I have a friend at the gym. Doreen. Uh Doreen, she her husband was a pilot, actually died in a in a uh in an accident, um flying accident. And so she's like, she wanted to bless you and hook you up. So we go out there and they've got the the plane sitting right there in the back of the house in the water Eagle Mountain, right right in the backyard, basically where their yard connects to the water. And so the pilot that was her friend came and he was gonna train you.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah, he's the captain of the Blue Angels at the time.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Wow. Wow, I forgot about that. Yeah, I didn't know that. And so then um so then the pilot says to your mom, Aren't you gonna come? Because I think I was was I driving the boat and you guys were surfing, you other kids were surfing?

SPEAKER_05 18:34

No, no, I don't remember what we were doing, but we had you're right, we had something.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah, it was just me and mom in the plane.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah, so he picked up your mom and and knocked her flip-flops off on the on the um on the uh dock and then walked out and put her in the plane as well. So you go up and fly in, so take it from there.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, so we're flying and we're up for 30 minutes, an hour, and he's like, You want to fly? I was like, Yeah. So he gives me gives me the yoke and and I start flying around and doing different maneuvers, and he's kind of teaching me things here and there, and then all of a sudden uh the right engine makes a funny noise and the cabin's filling with smoke, and there's oil spewing out of the right uh the right engine. And I look back, and this is like a seaplane that looks like it came out of Indiana Jones. Like it's it looks awesome. And uh I look back down the the plane a little bit and I see mom holding onto her seat like this, and she was talking to Dorian's daughter sitting right there, and they're just looking all the smoke from the cabin and kind of freaking out, like, are we gonna die? And so I'm on the on the comms, I'm like, hey, uh, there's smoke in the cabin. Is that good? He's like, That's terrible, that's not good at all. And there's all this oil hitting the windshield, and he's like, That's not good either. And uh, yeah, so we're gonna tether this uh this ride engine and we're gonna do this and this, and he kind of walks me through it and all very calmly. Very, very calm, yeah. Very, very calm. And and he calls in to the radio and and says a bunch of lingo that I had no idea what he said. And anyway, he's walking me through it, and he's like, We're gonna do this to the engine so we can fly with one. I was like, I didn't know you could do that. And so I learned a lot of stuff and we landed, and um uh we landed, and I'm like cleaning the oil off the plane at Meacham. At Meachum. And uh when we landed, the entire emergency team came out, like dudes in fire suits and fire this and fire that.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So I think you flew from Eagle Mountain over Lake Worth, then over uh Marine Creek, and then crossed over the interstate over eight loop eight twenty to land at Meacham. So he he was pretty smart to keep it.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yeah, he told me he was he was gonna go over bodies of water. If we have to crash land, he's gonna land in in some water. And uh, at least that's what I remember him saying. And so end up we we ended landing and this whole rescue thing, and everything was fine, and they there was no fire to put out, but they got it and got the engine shut down and taxied it over. And I'm cleaning the oil off, and mechanics are looking at it, like, yeah, y'all should have died. We're like, Oh, cool. It's like, yeah, through a rod or something, and normally that comes flat out and the engine blows up or whatever the case was. Wow. And so the he's like, You guys are very lucky. And in the blue angel pilot, he looked at me and he's like, you know, I normally fly tens of thousands of hours with nothing happening, and you started your career with something major, so you should be good for many years. And I remember laughing at that.

SPEAKER_05 21:23

But uh, but yeah, it's a sign you shouldn't be a pilot.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Turns out I am not a pilot to this day, so the you know, there goes that. But yeah, wanted to be a pilot, and uh that didn't happen. Um, I was planning to go out to Lateran University to study, and uh, I had a small scholarship to to do that. I wanted to go play basketball there as well. And my junior year in high school, I had a lateral meniscus displacement. Correct. And um, and my knee, my knee just basically blew up.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Translate means you blew one side of your knee all the way over to the other side. Yeah, the meniscus.

SPEAKER_05 21:56

That started with your back your tenacity, and you can do whatever. You want mentality. You still did football, even though you had the slow growth thing that you were battling. And I do want to talk about that for a second because um, number one, I think you have the record for like junior high longest touchdown, yard touchdown, because you went under someone's legs and just kept running.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

No, the uh no, that's funny. No, I uh what do you have?

SPEAKER_05 22:21

What what happened? I remember you were running like this, and you came out from underneath a pile.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah, I was uh I was a freshman and my coach put me on the D line because the team we were playing was huge. They were massive individuals. And he said, he's like, Little clingy, what I want you to do is as soon as the ball snapped, I want you to run under the center's legs and grab the quarterback. And I said, Totally. And so I was like, that's a great idea. And uh, and if you could imagine, I'm just itty, itty little bitty dude and going up against grown men, basically.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

Yeah, because how tall were you stayed at one height for how long?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

I was about five foot, five'1 for most of high school.

SPEAKER_05 23:00

High school until your injury, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah, yeah, I did a lot of growing in my in during the injury, but yeah, you only get that. And uh so he puts me in, and uh mom tells a story of she's like talking to friends in the stands, and they said, Oh my goodness, Jonathan is is on defense. She's like, What? And she looks out and like the size difference. I just the pads are too big, the helmet's too big, and I'm just like trotting out there and it's like what I would picture David in Saul's armor kind of looked like.

SPEAKER_05 23:27

Yeah like just didn't quite fit.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Yeah, and so uh we line up and the stinder looks at me and just kind of laughs, and I just kind of shrugged at him. And they get down to do the snap, and and you know, he he just underestimated it as soon as the ball was snapped. I just accelerated and just bear crawled between his legs, and I grabbed the ankle of the quarterback and he fell down and I got a sack. So it didn't work the second time, let's just say that. Um but uh but it worked that one time, and uh and anyway that that kind of translated through football. At one point I was in a running back position. This is how it hurt my leg. Um I was at a running back position, I had a blocking assignment, and um this linebacker comes barreling through the hole that I'm supposed to block, and I always found it comical that my my coach would call a blocking play knowing that I'm supposed to get this block. It's like, do you want the quarterback to get sacked? Um, because the dude could just pick me up one hand and tackle the quarterback. And so I knew that that was gonna happen, and I had been studying cut blocks, uh, knowing and looking at other guys play that were smaller. I feigned high and I dove at his legs and completely cut him out. But when I did that, he landed on top of me, my knee bent out funny. Yeah, and I had two uh two tears of my meniscus. And I didn't know what that was, except I couldn't stand up straight, and so I would I would kick my leg. And what would happen is my my leg was was trapped in that tear, and when I kicked it, it would it would free it, but it would make it tear even more. Yeah, and so I could play, I played multiple games after that, and just kind of as soon as if my knee bent past 90 degrees, it would catch in the tear, it would hurt, I'd kick it, and it would come out and I could run.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, yeah, you're back, you're back on kickoff receiving to receive the kickoff. And you're back there kicking your leg, and your mom says, What's he doing? Jeff, what's he doing? So he's trying to kick that catch thing that he's got in his knee, trying to kick it out of the way so he can run. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

And you would keep playing. Well, really, and then in that story, and I don't want to get too far down your story to the next part, but for you as a parent, you y'all were being pressured several different moments to do something about Jonathan and his position in life, like intervention with hormone and different things like that. Y'all ultimately decided not to, but how did you hear the Lord for your son um watching him go through what he was going through, watching him fight through things and become ultimately becoming the man he is today, which we're gonna keep discovering that. But how did you hear God in those moments when it's so easy to trust professionals' opinions and the ideas of others? How did you know to hold back and trust the Lord instead for this specific instance? Because I know parents, I know parents are gonna face I'm I know I'm gonna face things, I'll have to decide for our kid. And that's really when I hear your story, I think about man, to be a parent in that situation, loving your child so much and wanting the most for them, how did you sit with that?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Well, I had had enough experiences in life uh with needing to hear the Lord and knowing how the Lord speaks to me. So by this point, I'd already been directed by multiple dreams, you know, every step of my life, just the path, the zigzag of the path, usually had a dream connected to it. And so I knew that if God was gonna speak to me something about Jonathan's health, that he would let me know. Because I don't I don't take a position of God, if you speak, I'm gonna disobey. God, if you speak, I'm gonna obey. And so I knew that he was gonna let me know if there was something that needed to be done. Plus, I had the experience of my brother, so the slow growth gene uh runs in the family. So my my mom's dad had it, uh, and his name was John, and they nicknamed him Little Johnny, and he didn't come out of it. So he ended up at about five, five, five, six, 125 pounds. Wow. Maybe 5'4, 5'5. I think he was an inch taller than grandma, so maybe 5'4. And so he just stayed small. But then uh none of his daughters got it, which would be my mom and her three sisters, but then my brother got it. So my little brother graduated from high school, he was four feet ten inches tall, and he wrestled 98, which is the lowest weight class all four years of high school, and he never weighed it ever. Freshman, junior, uh freshman, sophomore junior, senior, he never weighed the weight limit for that weight class. And then when he got in college, he started growing. So he's I don't know what he is now, five, eight or five, nine, 175. So he grew. So I kind of had in the back of my head and I prayed, Lord, could you let it be, you know, at at worst, can could you let it be like it was with Eric, my brother? And so I just had a piece, you know, me and your mom prayed and just had a piece that we didn't want to go with uh with the uh hormone uh therapy to try to jolt his body into growing and just trusted that it would work out. And in one of the tests, if I remember right, one of the tests that took marrow out of your knee, I think. Something, and it showed the potential for the growth hormone to kick in. There was some something that we had hope in the natural that I took before the Lord in prayer and said, Lord, is this you? Is this hope that we just you know leave it alone and it would be okay? So history with with it not working for my grandpa, but work for my brother, and then knowing that there was a hope element and then just praying and not having any dreams, any direction. I wasn't gonna make something happen without the Lord speaking to it and letting me know. And I knew he would let me know because I'd learned how to listen to him by then. And so it was hard in that sense, but I was confident that it was gonna work out, and it did.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Yeah, I remember the uh leaving that doctor's appointment where he said I was never gonna do this and never do that. And I went home and I was in the shower and I cried, and I was like, I refuse to accept that. And so I got a tape measure and I measured up where he said my height was gonna be, and I put two inches above it, and I scratched it out in the grout in the shower. So every time I took a shower, I'd look at that thing and I would like measure it and get on my tippy toes, and I would just I was just thinking, I'm gonna beat that, I'm gonna beat that. So every time I took a shower, I don't think any of you guys knew that that I'd scrap scratch in the grout.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Remember me telling you though, I said, Jonathan, that's just his opinion. The Lord has the final say. I said something like that to you.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Oh, sure, totally. And and yeah, until I remember the day that I got in the shower and I went to go find it, and it was right here in that mark. And I was like, screw you, Doc.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

Which, okay, so we'll get to that. So you injure your knee, picking back up on your story, you injure your knee.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Um injured my knee, played football, decided I'd rather get it healed so I could play basketball because I want to go to the turno.

SPEAKER_05 30:03

Because you felt like your potential for college lied in basketball more than any other sport. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Yep, yep, yep, and um um so so I wanted to go that route. And so I took a took a break. I tried to play football. We went and got scans done. The doctor told me to rest for I don't know, three or four weeks. Yeah, two abrasions. And uh he's like, you'll be fine. And so I just I rested and went to go play in in one of the playoff games that we had, and and uh something happened to tackle and and this one hurt a lot more than the others, and I told Coach, I was like, Hey, I can't. Basketball is like three or four weeks away. I can't. I can't I'm gonna miss that. And so I I sat out the rest of the season and um hoping that that'd be fine. So we got into basketball, and this is where I really hurt it. Um we were having a scrimmage.

SPEAKER_05 30:48

Um junior year still, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Junior year, we were having a scrimmage, and and the junior year was gonna be the best year for our team. We had two uh seniors that were really good. We had myself and a couple of guys in my grade, and we had a few guys below me that were really good shooters, and so that that year would have been the best all-around team that that school would have had uh in a while. And so we were super excited to just do amazing things. And so the scrimmage uh a couple weeks before the season actually started, um uh one of the guys who's bringing the ball down to the court, and I'm on defense, and he makes a move, and I step and and reach around to hit the ball to my my defensive player on the other side while people run down the court, and I play in turn, and as soon as I do that, my knee just gives way and I just hit the ground. And I remember thinking, oh man, this hurt, it hurt so bad. And uh I was like, This is this is crazy, but it was the same as all the others, really, it just hurt a little bit more. And so I stood up and as I went to kick it, I did the worst pain that I've ever experienced. Yeah, and I fell right back to the ground and my knee started throbbing, it started swelling.

SPEAKER_05 31:55

I was there this day, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

I think you were there you went off to the I think you called mom and dad, but I I pulled myself off to the court and like I'm not I'm not really crying, but tears are coming out of my face. Yeah, just how much it hurt for that second. I was like, this is crazy. I couldn't straighten my leg, it was pretty much stuck in one position.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Not crying, but tears are coming out of your face. So what would you call that?

SPEAKER_05 32:17

That was like pain leaving his body in the form of water out of his head.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:23

I was there because you asked me to grab your leg and you're like, I should you're like laying there and you're you're gripping the bench, like just just grab my just grab my foot, Brady, just pop a straight, pop a straight, and you're like gripping. Do you remember this at all? Yeah, I was like, I'm not popping anything, I'm not touching that because it was like swollen and stiff. Yeah, and then I called mom and dad.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah, it was like turning colors, it was turning colors, yeah. Anyway, went to the went to the ER. We saw um so I went through a connection at the gym.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Yeah, yeah, the gym is really a theme in this podcast. Sorry, continue.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

You work out with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

So yeah, so I don't remember if it's through the owner of the gym or through one of the members, but there was a connection to a really good knee surgeon who did the Mavericks or the Rangers or the Stars. Range Rangers and Stars, I think. He was he was uh orthopaedic for them. And sure enough, this friend at the gym or the owner of the gym, I can't remember, made the connection, and we got right in. And they did the MRI, and it he couldn't even see your your lateral meniscus on the outside of your knee, couldn't even see it. And so then he said, Yeah, I I need to get in and take a look. Um, it I can't even see it, it doesn't show up. And so we went back like a week later, and you were the fifth surgery of the day, I think. He would he would load up and do Monday and Wednesday, I think he would load up and do a bunch. Then he'd do hospital visits on Tuesday and Thursday, and then he'd do in-office consultations on Friday, I think was his schedule. So yeah, you were the one of the later ones that day, so he got you in and he told us before he, you know, came out and talked to us before he went back and did it, and said, um, if I'm back in 15 or 20 minutes, it's good news and bad news. 20 minutes, half an hour. If I'm back 20 minutes, half an hour, it's good news and bad news. Uh the good news is uh that he doesn't have to be sedated for a long time, doesn't have to be under. The bad news is the meniscus is shot, and I just ended up removing it. Now, if I'm here, if I'm back here for a long, long time, that can be bad news as well. And I'll be sure to to have one of the nurses get on the I'll call and they'll come out and let you know, or they'll call on that phone and you can they can tell you progress. So anyway, takes you back at like three o'clock, I think. And at 4 30, still nothing. So of course your mom is panicking. So finally, about 10 to 5, I think. I think it was an hour and 50 minutes, he comes out and says, Well, that was a humdinger, something like that. I said, We no word, no anything. He said, I I couldn't stop. I couldn't. Here's what happened. I got in there and looked. The meniscus, lateral men uh the lateral meniscus was flipped all the way over on the medial side, but the vein, the vein that feeds it was still connected. And so he thought, I can save this meniscus, because you know, without the meniscus, you end up with arthritis, you end up with knee trouble. A lot of times that leads to a knee replacement. And so he said, I found it, and I was so busy wanting to save this young man's knee, I didn't even think about it, and time got away. So he put you in traction, pulled your knee apart, flipped the meniscus back over, and then fastened it, stitched it all the way around, and was meticulous in doing it all the way around the outside, and then just watched to be sure the blood was feeding the healing, because you know the healing is in the blood, and then came out. So he just got so caught up in wanting to try to bless you and help you that he didn't let us know. And so we're just, oh Lord help us, because you all that time when you're waiting, that can be so traumatic when you're just waiting, waiting, waiting. And then the hardest part, you're talking about me crying, was when you came out and um you were hoping that it was just an abrasion and that he could just kind of sand off not the right term, but just sand off the abrasion and that you could be back in basketball a month later. Yeah, and so you you came to pretty quick. You process drugs like your mom pretty really fast. You know, if they don't give you enough, then you're gonna feel the pain. And so you were coming awake pretty quick and you were in the wheelchair and you looked up at me and said, Dad, did he fix it? I said, He did. So I can play basketball. I said, No, son, I'm sorry, you're not gonna be able to play basketball. Why? Because it was a major surgery. He had to put you in traction, he had to, he had to bring the it wasn't just an abrasion, it was completely detached, and you just started crying because you wanted to play basketball so bad. Yeah, and um, that was tough. But then you grew. Well, I was that was the year you grew. I grew a lot during that time, like eight or ten inches.

SPEAKER_05 37:09

A lot. I remember you went into that surgery. I saw you that day you played basketball, you're trying to make you pop your knee out, and I didn't want to. Then you're on crutches, your wheelchair, you all all the things where you weren't standing up fully. And I remember it was nine months, right? You weren't standing up fully for like nine months.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

And about that time, whatever it was, where you stood up all the way, you stood up like four inches taller. So I felt like I was looking at a whole different brother. By the time your knee had healed, it was like your whole body had healed too, and it just grew.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Yeah, yeah, it was it it was really interesting. I grew a lot during that time. And uh coming back to basketball was interesting because I've been on crutches for so long, my triceps got big and I could shoot threes like they were free throws. So my game changed. Uh still still quick, but not as quick. And I had to get used to being taller.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

You had to get used to dribbling another ten inches in in in height. Yeah, another on your dribble.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Another good bit.

SPEAKER_05 38:09

And because you didn't stop growing, you had just grown like four or five inches. And then you kept growing during that season. By the time you finished, you started junior year at what whatever you were, five one, five two, five three-ish, maybe. And you finished junior year at like five ten, five.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

No, he's just five nine now.

SPEAKER_05 38:27

And then you graduated college at like six one. Yeah. So that that's a lot of growth happening while you're in your sport.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

6'1 with cowboy boots on.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Yeah, it still counts.

SPEAKER_05 38:37

Is that is that really with cowboy boots on?

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Probably.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Yeah, maybe a little bit taller, actually.

SPEAKER_05 38:43

Yeah, I feel like you're taller with those on.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

You better put a mark in your shower and start looking at it again.

SPEAKER_05 38:48

But you you transformed, and I also feel like you transformed as a person too. So talk to me about like what the Lord was doing in your life and and how your faith was changing during that time.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Um yeah, so during that time, yeah, my faith um I'm challenged with with I had these this plan for my life, and it felt like the Lord just completely completely removed that. And it was through that season that I realized um to hold my plans for my life with an open hand. I I do believe that you should have a vision of where you're going and who you are to become, but hold it with a hand like this so that the Lord can can can move and and and do what he needs to do. Because mine was like this, and what he had to do is he had to break it open.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yep, so what's your first like this is an open hand, and your second like this is a closed hand. So the Lord showed you to hold your desires for your life with an open hand, but not with a closed hand. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:51

In some ways, do you feel like everybody goes through that moment, whether it's early in life or late in life, where at some point the Lord recognizes the grip you have for you is too tight for me to move, and he has to do some breaking? How would you encourage somebody who's going through that?

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Well, every testimony has a test. Every destiny has some struggles, every path has some rocks. How many more analogies you want me to use? Just stay with those. One more. Every highway has potholes. Every river has rapids. Okay. I'll stop there. So, point being, um who who the Lord calls, he tests, who the Lord appoints, who he gifts, he tests, he refines. There's there are challenges. One of the ways that we learn how to process life is to grab hold of the Lord through challenges, through difficulties. And we've had we've had plenty. Um K-bergs have. Yeah, we have. But God's still good, doesn't change anything. And I would I would think whatever involvement the enemy has in it that he would give up because every time, every time the test comes, we call out to the Lord, we draw closer to the Lord, we gain more strength, we gain more faith, and we end up better on the other side of the test. So you have to predetermine. So back to spirit, soul, body, this would be one I would encourage people to do. Let the spirit, the indwelling spirit, lead the way in your life, which is the Holy Spirit, brought your spirit back to life. Then when situations come, temptations come, uh, unexpected, you know, difficulties hit your life, just how they clear blue. It can happen in a second, auto accident, or unexpected and untimely death, etc., those things hit. You predetermined before you're in the midst of the difficulty, the storm, the trouble, the pain, the injury, the accident, you predetermined ahead of time, no matter what happens, yeah, I'm trusting the Lord. So I had many things I had to deal with in life. And one time just from the psalmist I just picked up, you know, I don't remember which psalmist it was, let's just say it was David. He came to the place where though he slay me, yet will I trust him. Yeah. In other words, if God's gonna allow for the plan of my life to end up in death, I'm gonna trust him anyway. Because I think later on he says, Where else can I go to find the words of life? Where else can I go to find truth? There's nowhere else I can go but to you. Yeah. So you have to predetermine, you you you make a choice in your spirit that when the difficulty hits your soul, your mind, will, and emotions, that your will wins that battle. Yeah. And your will wins the battle going toward the things of the spirit, not toward the things of the flesh or the devil, the evil one. And so you have to, regardless of the thought, regardless of the emotion, you still have to hold on to, no, I'm holding on to the Lord. No, I'm trusting the Lord. This is temporary, this isn't gonna last. The Lord's working in this, I'm not gonna die from this. Even if I do die from this, I get to be with the Lord forever. Yeah. Um, and so you just predetermined, regardless of what it is, you're gonna trust him. And I think in some way or another, you kids had some of that in you, and not understanding, not knowing, but you still you didn't you didn't rebel, you didn't run away from God, you didn't, you know, become party hardy, and I didn't get to be a pro basketball player, so forget you, God. And you know, I just I just thumb my nose at God, uh, for those that are watching, uh listening and not watching. Um you just you just have to trust Him as you walk through it. Yeah. And I think you had some of that in you during that time, even though you didn't really know you had it in you yet.

unknown 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

How would you encourage somebody who's going through that breaking for maybe the first, second, or third time to have to experience that grab a hold of it too tightly and the one has to loosen that grip.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah, I mean that's happened in a couple a couple of seasons. I think I think the Lord allows us to repeat seasons and and tough trials if we haven't learned that lesson. And by God's grace, you know, thank you. Because I don't want to go to the next place that he's calling me to without learning what I need to know in that in that previous season. Um and and so my encouragement would be to to stand strong and and and trust that he does have a good plan for your life, a plan to prosper you and and not to harm you.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

And you mean strong in your faith, not strong on your position.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Right, right. Continue to draw close to him. Because in that time it's easy, uh it's easy to mope on the couch because I literally couldn't move um without tearing a stitch or something, and I didn't want to do that. And so I'm just chilling on the couch, I'd rather go be outside. I'd rather go do these things. And I had to say goodbye to again, that was gonna be the basket basketball season that we were gonna have, and we're gonna set all kinds of records, and we're gonna do I had to say goodbye to that. I had to say goodbye to any possibility of going to play out the turnout. They're not gonna, they're not gonna want me anymore. And which means I had to say goodbye to being a pilot and I had to say goodbye to I just there was a cascade effect of all of these things that I could have just moped about. And you know, there were times where I was frustrated and asked God why. Um, but in that season I learned instead of asking God why, ask, ask what? God, what are you wanting to teach me and show me? And so it helped open my eyes to to seeing the Lord moving in that area. And what I didn't know, looking back now, the Lord was protecting me from going down a path that would have kept me from number one, stepping into ministry, number two, meeting my wife, uh having my kids. The life that I have now is because of this. Um, because I stayed back, I didn't go to the turno. Um, I got my associate's degree at TCC, I stayed local. And during that time, uh I was brought on part-time staff to do youth worship. And that's where I fell in love with with working in the ministry and investing in the next generation. Sam uh being one of those incredible guys that that uh was on the worship team at the time, and and I still remember doing the the Sunday trainings where we would meet in that room and we would go over uh like worship principles and and dynamics and things like that.

SPEAKER_05 46:18

And Sam was also the guy behind the camera.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yeah, I was gonna say, for those that are listening, not watching, Sam is that awesome dude right back there on the other side of the cameras.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Man of many talents.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yes, goodness, music, speaking, entertaining, devices, podcasts, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

Um, but it was actually during your injury you even learned how to play guitar.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Uh I had learned to play before that, actually. But I learned I got better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yeah, you had a lot of time to play.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

I did. That that at video games. And uh and uh yeah, so there were there were a lot of things that the Lord did in that season that I didn't understand, but it was getting me ready for for the next stuff that was coming. I fell in love with ministry, with helping people. I finally accepted the fact that that ministry is gonna be a part of my life and and I grew to love it. And that's when I heard from the Lord that I was gonna go off to Australia and study theology and and uh said yes to that and went and studied, was in Australia for three and a half years and came back. And you know, there's there's even more to that story as well. It was it's funny because the Lord finally gets my attention and I fall in love with ministry and I come home and I'm gung-ho, ready to go full-time staff, and nothing is available. And so I just serve wherever I could uh with stage design or whatever. We mostly just played ping pong at two in the morning, uh setting up stage design. You and the volunteers, me and Mike Reeves and all the boys, Jeff and all of them. And um and realized that okay, well, maybe maybe ministry is not it, and I've got to build a career. And so I started working in insurance and uh building a business through that. I met Reed. We started working together, and Reed introduced me to Addy, and Addy and I fell in love and uh moved on from there to another job that provided very well financially for us. And I thought, you know what, God, maybe you're leading me to be a big kingdom builder now where I could still serve on the worship team and serve in ministries. Uh, but God, you're gonna you're gonna bless my business because that's what he was doing, and I'm gonna be able to make all this money and I'll make general generational wealth and be the first Klingeburg to make it.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

To not be poor.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

We've all had that dream and we've all given up.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

I was like, God, I receive this blessing. Amen.

SPEAKER_05 48:30

This is my burden to carry for our family.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

And and lo and behold, um in this career path, uh, it just nothing it never satisfied. And it didn't matter how good sales were or whatever the case may be. Um uh it there was just there has to be more to life than this. And I just talking with Addy and and what's our future and what are what's going on what's gonna happen. And and I felt ministry was still on the table. I didn't know how or what that looked like. And then one day I got an offer letter to come into the youth ministry and and become a youth pastor, and and uh I took it to Addy and it was uh well below what I was making at the time. And Addy looked at it and just laughed and said, No. What are you talking about? The answer is no, just tell them no. And uh and I said, I know, and we tried to negotiate and they're just the the funds aren't there. And and so I prayed about it and I thought Lord, this is you, and um if this is you, I've got peace about it, but I'm not gonna convince, I'm not gonna sell this to my wife. I you're gonna have to do it. So, God, if this is you, then I'm praying that you speak to her and you tell her. Uh because I know saying yes to ministry meant saying no to a whole bunch of other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

And and for her, I didn't want her going into it because I made her, because then I would I would be at fault knowing what tests would be coming in the future. And so I just prayed, God, if this is you, you would you would speak to her. And so about two or three days later, I was sitting there having my devotional and drinking my coffee, and she comes up to me and she's crying and she's like, the Lord just told me to say yes. And I said, Thank you, Lord.

SPEAKER_05 50:13

Uh it's so much easier in God, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 50:15

It's so much easier. Uh and so and so we said yes, and I left that job. It worked out perfectly because um uh Jewel, we found out we were pregnant with Jewel, and uh after she arrived, I used all of my paternity leave at that company and came back, and in that week I I let them know the transition, and they were like, hey, that's awesome, you know, get your stuff and do what you're gonna do. Get out of here. Get out of here. And uh great people, love love them. They were such a blessing. And uh uh um yeah, I look back at that season and wish I could have done more, um, but it was it was a blessing in his time. But yeah, God was faithful through that. And so even stepping into ministry and all the challenges that came with that, it really brought Addy and I closer together because we learned to to hear the Lord for ourselves and uh and have that confirmation so we could step into it and knowing that we were gonna weather some financial stuff, but we never lacked for anything. Yeah, I mean, we didn't get to go on vacation as much as we wanted to, and we couldn't buy the cars and we couldn't buy this and couldn't buy all these took a while, you had to wait to get a house. And waited a long time to buy a house just because we used the savings that I had made from from the previous job to live. And um but God was faithful, always provided, always made a way. And you know, here I here I sit today as a byproduct of of God's faithfulness all my life because of it.

SPEAKER_05 51:38

So Yeah. So you learn to hear God, and I we went far back, but it kind of sets up and really gives a lot of context to how you learn to hear God from hearing his call to salvation and life, to hearing his call through passion and drive, to hearing his call through surrender and brokenness, to hearing his call into ministry, like how you phrase that, finally surrendered to. Yeah, finally gave up and surrendered to that. I actually am called to this.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

Well, there are some biblical examples of that too.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

Yeah, there is, there really is.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Um I'll get on this boat, I'll go as far away from here as I can. Yeah. And then the boat goes in the water and the person goes into a fish.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Um I found that story to be so interesting, uh, not to go on a huge tangent. Sure. But with Jonah. So so the Lord tasked him with this, knowing, I think, that he was going to choose this. But the very reason that he that he chose that, I mean, there's there's so many metaphorical and symbolical things of being in the in the fish, being in Sheol for three days and and uh three nights and and um uh coming out the way that he did. But the the miraculous thing is that that city of Nineveh, the god, the deity that that they worshipped, oh yeah, I saw a depiction of of a man coming out of a fish. And so I just I can just see it happening where their top deity that they worship, these dudes are on the beach, and here comes this fish, and Jonah comes out as all the depictions, but he comes out uh as the prophet declaring uh fealty to Yahweh. Yeah, and there was no doubt in their mind that like this is a messenger from that God saying we need to worship the one true God. Yeah, and so it wouldn't have worked any other way. Yeah, I found that to be fascinating. I mean, uh again, that's a story for my life. I this wouldn't have worked any other way. I would have made a different decision, would have run another way. If I hadn't gone this path, I wouldn't have met my wife, have my beautiful kids, and um, you know, I I thank God for his faithfulness in that.

SPEAKER_05 53:37

How would you um bring understanding to someone learning to hear God as a single person? How would you help them know what it looks like, how you heard from the Lord? We've heard a lot about your journey with that, dad, with dreams and how the Lord's spoken to you over the years. But Jonathan, can you speak to how the Lord spoke to you as a single man? And I'm gonna ask you about how he speaks to y'all as a couple.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Yeah, that's really good. I would I would say I didn't really do the single life that well, so I can tell you how to not do it.

SPEAKER_05 54:08

Um I can agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Yeah, and how to not do it. I yeah, uh give give examples and well in hearing the Lord, uh, he would speak, he would speak to me through through peace and through Rhema. That's how I knew I was gonna go to school in Australia. So one morning I had my devotional, and something I'd read a hundred times just jumped off the page and and basically said, I will provide the way. And I thought, okay, cool, I'll I'll make that decision and go that way. And he provided the way. Uh, but being good in the single season, as I reflect on my single season, what I counsel and what I tell younger people is to do that season a lot differently than I had. And what do I mean by that? Knowing that the the woman or the spouse or the partner that you're looking for, you have to um display those attributes as a single person, right? So if you want them to love the Lord and pursue the Lord, you've got to be that kind of person. You can't expect to live one life and capture something at a different level. Um I've had many friends where they uh would want to go party, they want to go do these things, but they're wanting to settle down and find that Christian woman. I'm like, bro, you're not gonna find them in the bar, right? Now, has that happened before? Yes. Uh you're not gonna find them in the lifestyle that you're living because those ladies aren't looking to settle down. You're gonna find them in in that space. And so the the the one that you hear all the time is run your race and at the right moment look and see if there's somebody to run in that race next to you, and maybe the Lord will bring you together. But what what I tell a lot of young men is I wish I wish I would have had this perspective when I was single. Knowing the woman that the Lord had for me to marry, I wish I didn't have memories of any other woman, if that makes sense. I wish I didn't have any of those thoughts that the enemy can use to attack me in my marriage now from previous relationships, all the baggage, um, all of the the hurt, all of the terrible miscommunication things that I learned in those previous relationships carried on into uh into my marriage, and I didn't realize that. And so my counsel for young men is is is get get a vision of who you feel like God is calling you to be in 10 years and make decisions today that would line up with who that person is. Yeah. Um that's good. With or without a spouse, with or without a spouse, yeah. Because I mean that that longing for intimacy is is deep rooted in us, which is ultimately fulfilled through a relationship with the Lord. Um, but a lot of guys and a lot of young people are are thinking, I need to fill it with the the next person, they're gonna help fulfill me. But that's never the case, and they're never meant to carry that. Yeah, and so even if you find somebody uh that fits you really well, you're gonna dump all of these unmet expectations on top of them and they're gonna let you down because they're broken. And I had done that in multiple relationships before. And so that's my counsel for for those in the single life is have that vision and make decisions today that line up with who that person is, and be the person that the spouse that you want would be attracted to, that would look for.

SPEAKER_05 57:15

What would have made you uh more capable to hear God in those seasons?

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Uh cut out the foolishness and the sin.

SPEAKER_05 57:24

It's plain, plain and simple.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Yeah, I mean, it it you know that go goes back to a longer story, but there were things that I was doing in my life, lots of hidden sin that that a lot of people didn't know that I that I kept hidden. And I think allowing that in your life will silence God's voice in your life. And um it'll keep it'll keep things very hazy because sin makes you stupid. And being caught up in habitual sin, justifying it and being okay with it, silence the Holy Spirit within you. And although he's speaking all the time, I found it difficult. And then I would get frustrated, you're not speaking to me. But it's because I just did this last night and I hadn't repented from this. And um, and so that was that's where in that season I would say I didn't do singleness very well. Yeah, and I made a lot of mistakes. Um but God is gracious and he's faithful. And um, and and and man, he can turn, he can turn the worst situations around for things that that glorify him. Yeah. And so my my counsel, my experience is I can show you how not to do it. And uh and lit and you can you can choose to listen to it or not, but if you go down this path that I did, you're gonna be met with with pain, with heartache. You know, the gray hair that I do have on my head, which is growing in number, a lot of that came from those seasons in my life that I just made really poor decisions and um literally stole the joy and the life from me in those times and caused heartache for other people in my life as well.

SPEAKER_05 58:56

So yeah, like your parents working through heartache. Um, as you're watching him struggle to hear from God as a single man and you're hearing from God for him, how did you carry those two tensions of hearing God for your son and also not being able to intervene or take control or make decisions for him? How did you handle that?

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Well, I didn't try to hear God for him, I tried to hear the Lord with him when he invited me into that.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Well, um, so the most control and time you have with a child is the day they're born. Starting the second day of their life, the distance away from you has started. So um, if you try to hold on to a child tight, you end up uh doing yourself wrong and them wrong. You have to hold them. Your mom's really good about teaching on this, about uh training and teaching. And so we just we just had a recognition from the Lord and in our council with each other that we needed to to flip the script on some of the ways we saw some of our peers doing their their almost adult children, treating them like children, and realized we're not gonna do that. I can't see that being blessed in the word. I mean, Mary was selected to be the mother of God when she was 15, 14, 15. So the mother of Jesus. And so stuff like that, the Lord would use to tell me, okay, it moves from controlling to counseling, it moves from training to teaching, it moves from uh directive and oversight to friendship and conversation. And so we just moved to that point because I didn't want my children to be 30 years old and be dependent on me at 60 years old to hear the Lord for them. Yeah. And so we just made that determination that um that that uh we we had done what we knew to do, and we did it to the best that we could with you all at every phase that that we had, and we just had to at some point trust the Lord. So what I knew and didn't know, I still took to the Lord. I thought I knew there was sin, but I didn't know for sure, so I still take it to the Lord as though there could be sin in that child's life. But here, Lord, you're the one that knows everything perfectly, and you're the one that can deal with it the best. So you just have to recognize this is a whole nother podcast, and we need to have your mom in on this one, but you're you you start releasing, you start releasing the second day. Every step is a step away. And you can't the more you try to control and keep them close, the worse it's gonna be for both of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:45

So when he would invite you in, that would activate you in what way?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Then I would have permission, I have an invitation out of friendship, not out of obligation, not out of father-son, not out of pastor, uh youth pastor, whatever the case may be. I don't remember all the timelines, but not out of anything official, just relationally. If he if he and when, not not if, but when he would let me in, I would try to go in and be Christ-like in that, in the conversations and helping him hear the Lord to make those decisions, etc. I tried to do that with all of you. Now, primarily you and your sister went to your mom, uh, and the boys primarily came to me, although your mom with a degree in counseling was so good, you all have had much better and longer interactions with her. I was a lot of times, you know, busy building the church and building the kingdom. I wasn't able to do as much with you all as I would have liked to have done because of how much work was being done uh building the church. But tried to do a great job with you. I think the proof's in the pudding, I think I think we did pretty good with you all. And um anyway, so how does it look? Um, you just pray. So if you're the parent of a teenager and you think they're in trouble, you can ask questions, but if you ask a question with an attitude, they're gonna hear the attitude louder than they're gonna hear the question, and then they're gonna throw up a word roadblock. If you want to get into that space, you get into it by loving and showing kindness, and how can I pray for you? Not how can I pray for you? Like, I know you're in sin, I know there's something going on. Now you tell me I'm your mother, I'm your father, you tell me, tell me I'm gonna pray, and we're gonna pray this thing away. Well, that's that's almost like a threat, yeah. And it doesn't work, right? And so one of the things we hope to do and try to hope to help, that's why your mom is so active in teaching what has been titled for 30 years now, Wisdom for Moms, is she teaches from her own experience from the scriptures on how to help moms operate with wisdom and not with fear in raising kids and seeing every day they're moving further away, they're becoming their own person and just helping them navigate all that and how to take advantage of the opportunities when they show up.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:06

Yeah. That's very insightful. So hearing God changes stage to stage with kids, and it changes um phase to phase in your life when you go from single to married. I know you've talked about how you and mom have prayed and heard the Lord together. Jonathan, as you're growing in your relationship with Addy and in a place where you're hearing God as a as a pastor of a campus, um, what would you say has changed about how you hear God now that you are married and you're in this this place of leadership?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Um, how I hear God now, it's uh it's only become more clear as as I've stayed in that place of wanting to stay connected to him. I don't want anything to get in between me and him and and and hearing his voice and that clarity that comes with it. And really I had that I had that big revelation um you know when I got married, and especially when I had kids, is I don't want to miss uh what the Lord is doing and what the Lord is saying. Uh and an opportunity to speak into, you know, uh help encourage my wife and build her up, and then especially my kids, and then even now the church and my friend groups and the people around my life, I don't want to miss because the Lord is speaking all the time. And I don't want to allow anything in my life that could create a space where I miss something that he wants for me to encourage somebody else. And um, you know, being being the head of the household, like I want to make sure that I'm I'm in a solid place with the Lord, that my relationship with him, that nothing comes between that, because I want to stand strong in a place of protection, of covering, um, and then especially of inside and wisdom for those that the Lord has entrusted me with. And so how has it changed that I stepped into ministry? The the burden and the desire to stay connected to him is just exponentially increased. Yeah. You know, it uh every day in ministry is different, which I love. But it also means that I cannot predict uh how the day is gonna unfold and I have to spend time with the Lord. Like I have to spend time with him and and and hear from him and get and get uh filled with the spirit uh because anything can unfold during the day. And if I miss that opportunity to connect with him beforehand, I find that I'm doing a catch-up prayer uh in my car on the way to whatever hard conversation I'm about to have or whatever the case is, and I would rather not have to play catch-up. I want to I want to hit the day, I want to be effective and and and hit the day with with the terms of of walking with the Holy Spirit instead of being affected by the day. So that's the biggest way that it's changed for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:45

And when you say like nothing pulling you away from hearing God, that's not just sin, as we've talked about, but that's also distractions, business, commitments, tyranny urgent. Yeah, so many other things can also, because people might hear that and think, oh, okay, I just won't be living like a heathen, but you mean even in like the good things, the seemingly harmless things, they can all be opportunities to pull you away from the Lord if they're not submitted to the Lord. Um, so my last question for both of you as we wrap up this podcast, uh, which I love, Jonathan, sharing your story and your journey with us, but um, as you're hearing God for this current moment in your life, what are you hearing God for in your leadership at this campus for this gathering and expression of higher church? What are you hearing him stirred up by um in your faith that the Lord's gonna do in this community coming up or maybe even happening now?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Yeah, man. I mean, that's a that's a really big question. How much more time do we have?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:41

Not a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

Not a lot. Uh what I see is uh a restoration of revival. And what I mean by that is there's a hunger in the generations around my generation that, and ours included, that want authentic relationship with the Lord and tired of going through the motions and tired of a vague uh relationship, they want something that's real. And I think we're seeing that now, especially because of what social media has done is created such a faux reality that people are tired of it. And seeing how it's led to mental health issues, led to debauchery, and to the degradation of our culture. Um, there's a lot of people that are starting to recognize it for what it is and they want the real things of the Lord. And that excites me because now I see families that want to raise their their kids in the ways of the Lord and they want to do it with an authentic, real relationship that's not so tied into religion that it's dead. Yeah. Although there are religious things that are good in practice because they teach you in a good pattern. Um, but it's mostly relationship driven. And so what I see, especially for this this campus, are young families that desire the things of the Lord, that want to raise their kids uh in the ways of the Lord and a way that honors them, but but also grows them together as a family and it makes a difference for what's around them. Because the world is so broken and we need strong families. We need the strong unit, which is why I think the enemy is out to attack the family unit. Because if if he can get to the father, if he can get to the leader of household and crack him, he can crack the family and he can crack the church. And so it's uh it's a trickle-down effect that that starts from the top. And and uh but I'm excited because we're we're seeing growth in the young family space. I mean, a couple weeks ago, you know, having almost 40 kids dedicated to the Lord is awesome. So awesome. And you know, we're seeing uh so many young couples and young young families that are coming to church now, which is just makes me so excited. So I'm really excited that we're having the expansion uh getting going because I mean it's gonna create I think this campus is gonna be a lot of young families coming together and raising raising their kids together in the ways of the Lord, which is great. And it's it's all about your community. Absolutely. And uh and if your community is is is set on pursuing the Lord and hearing the Lord, you're gonna you're gonna hear that biosmosis.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:05

And then I'll turn that question to you, PJ, as we close. What are you hearing God for for the family of churches and highrage is our expression and as he's moving us forward?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

Well, that we keep um we are healthy. So um another Easter just passed, and all six locations um were honored the Lord, we're effective, we did what God told us to do, and there was increase from the year before. So all are on growth, all are healthy, um, all are on mission. Um, what we're committed to, the factors that we have that define us are working. People are understanding how fun it is to encourage each other instead of discourage each other, to be generous instead of stingy, to be a worshiper instead of a statue standing in the room. So many of these things are taking being in community, the importance of two two walking together, three-strand cords not easily broken. All of those concepts are catching on. And you know, when you asked Jonathan that question a second ago, what came to my mind was when we started here a number of years ago, uh, we we bought this property and this was nothing. There was just this neighborhood right here. Um, but not a neighborhood down there, not down there, not over there, not back there. And I'm pointing all the directions for those that are listening and not watching, pointing all the directions, just nothing. Yeah. And and so, you know, I wrestled with going out outside the loop, out away to start a church and build a building, and and um, and I remember a guy in church life one time when I asked him why he drove so far to come to church, because they were driving past a hundred churches probably to come to our church. And I said, Why are you doing that? There's so many churches along the way. And with his with his Texas twang, he goes, Pastor Jeff, if the church is alive, it's worth the drive. So that told me, okay, thank you, Lord. I heard the Lord in that moment. Go ahead and go for it, do it. God's gonna bring the people. And now here we are, however many years later, all the neighborhoods are filled up around us. This whole region is filling up. I just saw that by 2070 or 2050, 2050, by 2050, the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex is gonna be the largest municipal area in the United States. So when I was pioneering, there weren't people here. They had to come from away to come here, and they did. Now we're here, and God's bringing the world to us. Every skin color, every religious background, he's bringing them to us so that we don't have to go around the world, even though we do, to evangelize and and and be missional. He's he's allowing it to happen right here with us. Yeah. So that excites me. All all are healthy, all are strong. The relationships between all the campuses are good. Um, there are two campuses needing to either expand their facility or to get a facility. And I've heard from other two locations, I mean, there's just two campuses here in the Metroplex, all the rest of the locations. And I've heard one of the locations talking and praying about an offering for another location to help them get their building. And so that just that excites me. The vision, the vision has caught 9,000 of us, I think, uh in High Ridge worshiping together on Easter. And so that that helps me and excites me that that many people across that many places uh love the Lord, love each other, love the vision, and are for each other. There's that, and it's only gonna grow. I got a prophetic word a few just a month ago that there are gonna be three new births this year. Now, when when the brother was giving me the word, he said, I just don't know if it's three Klinkenberg family births, if it's three births in the church, which for here that's easy. Well, how many births are we doing a year at the Fort Worth campus? Like thirty? Yeah, a bunch, anyway. Uh or he said, but it might be church births. I just don't know. The Lord just told me to tell you three new births this year. And um, so anyway, uh, what do I see? What am I hoping for? Just us keep doing doing what we're doing because God's blessing it. Not that we're all that, not that we got it all together. Nobody's famous here. We're just being faithful with what God's assigned us to do, and he's blessing it.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:34

Yeah. So good. Well, thank you guys for this conversation. And I think it's going to strengthen people to know another story of faith, to hear God for their life, and to be encouraged by uh strength yields strength. And so in communities where people are pursuing the Lord and staying strong, that can get off into their life and that can help them be strong too. And that's what I want to see for higher-edge families across all locations and campuses is just more strength um in the Lord and who they are and what God's called them to do in every phase, every season. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Let it be so.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:08

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:08

Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Yep, thank you. You do a good job with this, honey.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:11

Thanks, Dad. You ready?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

Yep. Peace out. Peace out. Oh, you're too late. Let's try it again. There you are, last again. Never mind. God bless you. We love you.