SPEAKER_02 0:25

Welcome to our podcast. I'm so glad you're listening. This is the Real Strength Podcast. We talk about all the ways in which you can grow in strength in your spirit, soul, and body.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

And as always, I have PJ with me to bring wisdom to any conversation that we are having. And um today we're talking about the Bible. And this is going to be kind of a short, shorter episode, but the Bible is a core value for our church. And it's something you established a little while ago that we have on the wall in the lobby talking about who we are, defining us as people, that we're encouragers, we choose joy, that we're spirit-filled. And there's literally one that just says the Bible. Talk to me about why that is on our wall and why that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Because the Bible stands for basic instructions before leaving Earth.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Earth.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, the little song we sang in children's church. The B-I-B-L. Yes, that's the book for me. I stand alone on the word of God, the B I B L E. It's it's the wording pastor is there. It's been a while, hasn't it? Yeah. It's the word of God. It's the revealed revelation, the revealed will of God. And it is the lamp into our feet, a light into our path, it restores our soul, it renews our mind, it got gives us uh wisdom and truth. It's it's God's love letter to us. And so we ever everything we do is connected somehow to the scripture, an insight from the scripture, an experience from the scripture, um, a doctrinal uh truth from the scripture. Like what we do in church services on Sunday comes from the Bible, Acts 2 42. The apostles teaching or doctrine, fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer. And one of those is what leads us to small groups, fellowship, but teaching doctrine, the Bible tells us that we do that on Sunday. Um, breaking bread, communion, but also the whole the koinonia aspect, the friendship aspect, which also bleeds into our small groups, and then prayer. Yeah, and the way the the most prominent way that we pray is through song. Because anytime you're praising God, what are you doing? Any communication with God is prayer. And so we choose to do that because um music moves people, music sticks with people, and so the Bible gives us instructions on the big things that we need to do, and then how we do them and work them out takes different forms, but the Bible forms what we do when we're together in church.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah, it's the foundational piece that every expression and practice overflows from it's the scripture. Yes, there are different churches that, and I was just listening to a pastor of one of them explain their stance, and it went viral, you know, the whole thing. Um, churches that believe that the Bible is important, but that Jesus' story and his coming to earth and his um teaching the disciples the way and then leaving his spirit, filling us with his spirit became an addition so um vital and powerful that it puts scripture at this place of yes, you can have scripture, but also if you just have spirit-filled Jesus following people, that's also all you need for a gathering. So it's kind of an either-or thing that and when they gather together, if it's as long as it's spirit-filled, it's good. As long as it's got a bot the Bible, it's good, but they don't take it as a both and um they take it as the relationship and Jesus is all I need. In fact, the conversation started with people asking, what does it mean to be a Bible church? And this person chimed in and said, Well, if you're asking me what a Bible church is, I would say a church that is founded in the same way that Jesus establishes ministry. And I I think that that is relationship with God, and I think that's being filled with the Spirit. Not that we always have to read scripture, but that we also believe the scripture. Now we stand a little differently. We say the foundation of it uh is the scripture, and that from the foundation of the Bible we have filling of the spirit, relationship with Jesus, those other things. They say you can have a whole gathering and not have scripture. Because it's just one aspect of our faith.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Well, that would make me nervous.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Why would it make you nervous?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Because that leans more toward the subjective side instead of the objective side. Meaning what? Subjective is experience, which God wants us to have that. Um, he wants us to have memorable moments, he wants us to have um times of refreshing in his presence. He wants us to have an awareness of what his throne room is like and what his manifest presence is like, but all of it comes from the word. And and the word is what establishes the scriptures are what establish the boundaries for our life, how we are to think, how we're to speak, what we're to do, why we're to do it, when we're to do it, etc. All comes from the word. And so I don't see why it has to be either or.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Well, there's that scripture says the word was God, the word is with God in the beginning. Is that John? So um I don't think it should be an either or either. I believe a Bible-based church is a church that is built on the foundations of the Bible, and then from there that's the teaching expression it follows, and it is true to scripture. Um, but yes, there is a movement of churches that would consider themselves Bible-based or Jesus-based, is another way to say it. Uh churches, and they are they are allowing the way and the Holy Spirit free reign and bring scripture in as needed, but it's in a sense, the scripture's not the only thing God's speaking. He's speaking now, and that's just as valuable. And that's where you start to have those churches, like you would say, make you nervous and can get off. Um, because in its current revelation, it's the Spirit speaking to me, and I'm feeling this, and we're gonna go this direction, and it's got a lot more emotion, and so there's an anchoring that we get with scripture that is unbiased and um in the best way possible culturally irrelevant because it wasn't written for our culture, but it's supernaturally relevant to every culture because it's timeless truth. And there's a beauty in that because it calibrates us. We can't make it about us because it's about the Lord and what he's done through his people. He just in his kindness shows us how it transforms us. Would you agree with that statement?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

So I don't I don't know why it has to be either or. I th I think we do both and.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah, we do. Well, we're a spirit-filled Bible-based church.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I would I would call us evangelical in that we embrace the authority of the scripture, we believe it's inerrant, infallible. Yeah. Uh we win souls, we study, we uh we love the scripture at the same time. We are spirit people. We we believe the third person of the Trinity is good, he's God, he's not the bronze medalist, he's he's awesome. We embrace all that he does, but if you just use experience, then if the apostle Paul is here, you're describing the Corinthian church, the apostle Paul's gonna have someone come and see what's going on, or he's gonna come and see what's going on, and then he's gonna ask people how it's going, and then they're gonna start asking him questions, and then they're gonna mail him those questions or or pony express them, because there's there's there's guidelines needed, there's understanding needed, there's parameters needed, which is gonna cause the Holy Spirit to breathe on the Apostle Paul, which is all scriptures breathed by God. The Holy Spirit's the author of the Bible. That's why I don't like separating Bible from experience, because the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible. He breathed on them when they scribed it, when they captured it on parchment. And so then what's gonna happen is Paul's gonna write responses to the questions. What about the guy that's having sex with his stepmom? What about the ones that are suing each other? What about the ones that are walking up to each other, talking in tongues and not talking in the common vernacular, and people think they're crazy? Paul writes guidelines and directions and instructions, etc. And then what does that become? Becomes the scripture. The Bible. I just described 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Letters written to Paul about questions going on with people that were living by experience only, and then guidelines and directions come from the Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, using Old Testament references and insights.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

I think it's both and.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, take take that exact thing that you just said, because you said it more clearly than I did, and apply that to current context. People are saying that that still happens, and also we have the scripture. Questions come in and people ask the you know, authorities and position of that church like they would ask Paul. And they would give answer.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

So then my question would be to to the leader or leaders of that of that expression of Christianity. Um, what do you want to see happen to people day by day throughout the week? Do you want them to wake up and have that same experience that they had in the gathering? Um, do you think people will do that? Will they be able to have that same because there's power, the presence of God and the power that comes together in the gathering.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

In the ecclesia, in the when we're called out and but yet we gather together. Um that can happen. Uh that does happen with me. But I find that God's word is truth, and when I sit down at my study and open my Bible and grab my pen and open my journal and read until until he speaks a word or a phrase to me, and then I write a prayer, I find that that keeps me more grounded than trying to remember and experience an experiential element uh in a in a corporate gathering. And to me, I'm not certain, but I uh my question would be are you just gonna have a bunch of feely experiential, if I feel goosebumps, it's God, if I don't, if you're just gonna make me uh listen to the reading of the scripture, um, then I'm then I'm thinking uh that's that's that's drifting. So the focus of of the worship in the synagogues. Yeah, they just found the 12th synagogue foundation in Israel, which excites me to know there were that many places built, two temples over the course of time, but multiple synagogues, which blows away that we shouldn't build church buildings because they built buildings over and over and over again, different parts, group of people here. Let's build a synagogue. And the last one was on it was on the Golan Heights, up uh where Omer lives, up above the Sea of Galilee. Anyway, uh, what what was the feature of the of the of that gathering? Reading of the scripture.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah. So what's setting this apart, the current application of God speaking through godly men and you know, we to we under what we understand to be godly men and women in leadership of churches, versus text, is text is a canonized, it is spirit breathed, it is is a um it's a finished work. So how would you separate God's revelation to man now versus God's revelation to man then and how they're different, how we handle them differently?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Um God still speaks today. He speaks like he has always spoken. He wants a relationship with people. Uh he speaks through first one way, Hebrew says, then another way, and then another way. That's also uh spoken of in Job. Um and so God is still speaking, he hasn't stopped speaking because he's a relational God. It's that the understanding that we have of him and the platform that we operate with him is the Bible, is what the Bible teaches us about our role, about God's role, about the way we interact with him, the way he interacts with us, all of it has to have um God as the foundation. And knowing that the Holy Spirit wrote the scripture tells me that foundation piece, the Bible, is of the utmost importance.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

So is there a difference between the sacred text and the current revelation?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

What do you mean by current revelation?

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Men that God speak to. Prophetic words, God said this.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Oh, okay, yes, definitely different. What is that difference? A prophetic word will never equal scripture.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Correct. So you're talking about God still speaks in this revelation, and when God spoke and the revelation happened in scripture, what is different about that versus when he speaks now?

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Because there isn't going to be any more scripture written. The time period for the Holy Spirit to speak to men, 40 to 41, depending on who you think wrote Hebrews. I think it was Saul or Barnabas, similar to Paul, but a little different. So I'd say 41 men put pen to parchment, Holy Spirit breathing on it, they capture it. Through the process of godly men praying, finding the will of the Lord, our Bible came together over the course of time. And then all of the discoveries that have happened since then, the Dead Sea Scrolls being a big one in the late 1940s, uh, matches up. I think the book of Isaiah matches up 99 point. You remember when we were in Israel, is a 98, yeah. 8% accuracy to the oldest text that they have. That tells me it's it's solid, it's true, it's good, it's right. And so, ask the question again.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

So we're talking about sacred text, and that is revelation to man versus current revelation God's given to man. We believe God still speaks, yes. But what is the difference between what how what he spoke in scripture and how we handle that versus what he speaks now?

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Um, what is spoken now through prophecy, um uh through through encouragement exhortation is not gonna equal in in the level of truth is not gonna equal the scriptures.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

And why is that?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Because we have to have the an authority position, an authority place, and that's the word of God. That's the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

So in its canonization, that was sealed. For someone who has no idea what being scriptures being canonized means, how would you explain that?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I would explain that as a bunch of people who really love God, wanting to find out out of all of the different texts that people have been affected by over the course of time, what do we know? What's the litmus test gonna be? What's the evaluation process gonna be for finding out what's gonna make it into the book that we're gonna use and grow from and study from? And so uh the Gospel of Thomas didn't make it, the book of Enoch didn't make it. Uh, in in the in the Protestant Bible, the books in the Apocrypha didn't make didn't make it, uh, Maccabees and did they not make it because those books have error? Not error, they just didn't line up with the qualifications that that people that are smarter than me and you put together back in the day to determine what is gonna become the the holy book of Christianity and what is not. And so they didn't include historical writers, uh which we know, you know, uh Josephus and Polycarp and um I can't remember anyway, uh their their historical analysis didn't make it in. Um you know, they're different, just different books that didn't make it. We have to trust, there has to be a level of trust in us living today, that God, the creator of the heavens and the earth, the sovereign one, the all-knowledgeable one, was working in that time period uh with those who were seeking him and wanting to do a good thing, that they were blessed by God in the formation of the of the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

So people now should they read those other texts that you just mentioned? Enoch, Thomas?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I don't. Although it will come up in study. Um, for example, when I did that series on giants, and and I did the you know, the Jebuzites, the Hittites, Perizzites, the the Its. Um, you can't help but find the Nephilim and the um and the um Frankenstein. Anakim. Anakem, yeah. So you can't you can't help but but find those, and Enoch wrote a lot about those. Enoch was a great guy. He wanted two two that didn't die. Uh Enoch and Elijah. Enoch is just walking with God one day, and God just walks him right on up into heaven.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Super cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah. And he wrote, he wrote a stuff that's quoted. Matter of fact, Jude, uh Jesus' half-brother, uh uh wrote, you know, the last second to the last book in the Bible, right before Revelation, and wrote about Enoch, referenced Enoch. It seems like somebody else does as well.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

So they're not harmful to read, but they're not detrimental to your faith.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

No, there are some things that pop up that are unusual, and you're you're pulling on memories now that I'm gonna have to go back and refresh.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, I'm good at that.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

The so the margin of error for what made it into the 66 books was on the grid on the evaluation thing. Outside of that, to some degree, percentage of of differentiation uh from there on out, the other books fell. So some are gonna be a ways away because they've got things in them that they're nearly positive were written at a later time by someone other than was given credit, like the Gospel of Thomas. And so as a result of that, you get some stuff in there that are like, huh. And so once again, it's a trust factor that we trust that those that were working on the text to get it to get it nailed down and determine what what is gonna reveal the way of God to us, that they they were blessed by God when they did that.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

So talk to me about the received text versus the majority text.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Okay. The received text, um the belief is that there was an original set of documents and that those were passed down from priest to priest to pope to pope. Uh they have been passed down throughout the course of history and that they have been perfectly kept um perfectly kept together and then in the passing down, God God sovereignly protected each of those interchanges and all those interactions so that that text is the best text. And then uh in opposition to that, not opposition, but um the the other text that is the most prominent is the majority text, which the majority text um are where when different uh other discoveries are made, once again, Dead Sea Scrolls, you know, right there by Masada, right? Kumram throws the rock up into the cave, hits pottery, the shepherd boy goes up and gets it, brings it down, and they research it, and it turns out to be. And so that uh modern day discovery verified and solidified the process of the majority text, which were different, different documents. They've got names, uh sinus canetatus or something like that. I've forgotten it all. That is many years ago that I knew that.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

That's a name I've never heard before, but I'm really impressed you pulled it out like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, anyway, um, I can't remember the the elements in the in the received text, uh in the majority text, but the later discoveries affirm the majority text much stronger than they do the received text. The received text is what became King James.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Correct. So King James what does that mean for our Bible reading now? Is this translation?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

It's no, the King the So the Received Text is still a valid, awesome account of Scripture. Um I was taught at a Protestant seminary, and what we were taught was that the majority text has more accuracy, more depth, a broader uh scope, sphere of influence, and therefore kind of more annoying, if you will. But I'm not gonna tell you out if if there's only one Bible left on planet Earth and it's King James, I'm gonna read it. Even though I'm gonna be transposing, you know, 15th century English into 21st century English as I'm reading, because some of those words don't translate today.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

So you're saying there's validity to both, there's consistency and power in both.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

The higher l the higher academic uh criteria was met, uh it was met and is still being met. And I think I'm accurate on this, uh with the majority text.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

So for people reading the Bible, um you declared this to be the year of the Bible. And part of your motivation to that was pulling people back into this authentic, not tech distracted, screen distracted. Space, but a quiet, tactile space of holding scripture, holding holy holy text and engaging with the author, engaging with the Lord. But when people read the Bible, there are a lot of things to run into. I know myself included had to wrestle through some things like understanding why certain things are in there, understanding what's the what's the point of knowing these aspects about these people who conquered these lands? It's like there's so many ways people get tripped up or being tripped up on why this text, like we just talked about the canonization, um, and all the opinions of what that text means, whether it's literal or um it's uh metaphorical, yeah, or figurative. So, how would you help somebody who is trying to have a year of the Bible but is running into so many hurdles that just trips them up mentally and they're like, Well, I don't know how to answer these questions. What would you say to that person?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, year of the Bible came up because I want to try to get people off of a screen and back to pages, uh, Bible pages, not screen pages.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, because there's a pages app, so yeah, not the pages app.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I'm talking about, I'm talking about pen and hand. Now, some people think it's terrible to mark in your Bible, but I have worn out, I'm not bragging. But the first Bible that I went crazy in was the Living Bible. I don't even know if it's still being printed today. It was a paraphrase. Wasn't even a literal translation. Then I went from that to the uh New International version, which for the longest time was the Bible to have. And it was a dynamic equivalent. It wasn't it wasn't true to either one of the texts, either, received or majority. And then I went from there to New American Standard, and that's when I was in seminary, that's what we were taught from. New American Standard, that's a wooden or a literal translation. From there to New King James, because the Spirit Filled Life Bible came out a long time ago by a theologian who I respect and felt like he handled the word. Yeah, and so that's New King James, and that was awesome. And then out came English Standard Version, which is what I've used the last, I don't know, twelve to fifteen years. And so the point I'm making is that when God powerfully touched my life and caused me to fall in love with the Bible, it was through a paraphrase. And I didn't think that I needed to have understanding of everything or that I needed to be critical of everything that they put in modern language so that this new believer could understand it. I was just glad because it got me excited and it got me going. Um, like my life verse uh in that time in my early 20s when when the Lord grabbed a hold of my life, my life verse came out of the living Bible and it's out of Peter. Do you want more and more of God's kindness and peace? Then learn to know him better and better. For as you know, learn to know him better and better, he will bless you with an abundant life. And um I can't I can't unmemorize that. That's God gave me that. I do want to know the Lord. I want to know and that form my life. So you're the Bible is to get us back to opening the Bible in church, pen in hand, make a mark right there. We just did the series on the foundations of the faith. Most people don't know the foundations of the faith, can't name them. Don't know that it's repentance, um, faith, um, laying out of hands, washings or baptisms, um, last things or end times and judgments. Most people don't know. But when you have your Bible in hand, you're being taught it, and every week you're being taught another one of the foundations of the faith, according to the writer of Hebrews, chapter six. Then you can write number two on week two, number three on week three, and then you can then you can make yourself a note or an arrow or something and go over to a note page in the back of your Bible where you're writing down the nuggets that you're being taught about that particular foundational element of the faith. So that later on, a month later, a year later, you can go back and look at the notes in the back of your Bible. Oh, yeah, oh yeah. That is one of the foundational elements. That shouldn't be something that I'm ignorant on, should be something I'm aware of. Yeah, there are two judgments. There's the judgment of the unbelievers and the judgment of the believers. Yeah, thank you, Lord. Yeah, just deeper memory. Deeper memory, easier, easier recall. That's why I'm trying to get us back to it. Because what I see, and I could be wrong, but what I see when people are holding a screen and they're reading, first of all, it's tiny print.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

And not on your phone, you've got this thing zoomed in, it's like two words a line.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

I'm gonna get my eyes fixed so I can go back reading like everybody else does. Um, but but I've noticed it's easy to do this.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, it's easy.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And it's so distracting. Yeah. And even people that are experts on navigating screens still get distracted. Sure. Whereas when you're holding a Bible in your hand and you got a pen and you got something to jot some notes down on, or you're flipping back and forth to your notes in the back of your Bible, you're jot some notes down. I think, well, you know, learning styles, visual, audio, and then uh can uh kinesthetic, yeah. Yeah, and that involves action, movement. Yeah. And not everyone can learn by listening, not everyone can learn by seeing, but everybody can learn by listening, seeing, and action, writing. Yes. And that's why I encourage people to get a pen and hand and write, because that action, that movement, that physiological movement, even though eleven percent of us in the world learn that way first, I'm in that 11% kinesthetic. But everybody that's visual and audio can learn that way as well.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

So I'm an auditory learner, and what help helped me in school, I didn't realize this until junior year of high school, but it was it was kind of whisper reading to myself what I needed to read, so to speak. So that makes sense, kind of silently reading out loud, because me saying the words as I'm reading the words was helping activate that auditory process for me. Helps me too. It's an it's a kinesthetic thing, but if I just read, I'm not, it doesn't matter where it is, I'm not retaining it.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Insane.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

So for me, if But your mom can retain it.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Boom, boom, boom. She reads it, she's got it.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

She's very good at it. Um, so for me, um, when I'm going, like I'm going through the Bible in a year this year again, I'm doing the Bible recap version. Um, because I love Terry Lee, she's great at her diving into text and providing explanation. She also helps me as I'm working through hurdles by giving context and information about that scripture that I couldn't know unless I was studying it deeply and had all the tools and resources. Now I have a study Bible and I love that Bible, and I'll and I like to go back afterwards, after I've listened to it and read over it again, because now I understand it. So what I will do is I'll let the Bible read to me in the morning and I'll just set my phone down or put it on do not disturb so it can read to me and it not and not get notified. And then I can go back and sit with the text and I'll journal from there, I can pray from there, I can dive deeper in my study Bible, and I've found that that has helped me both not only ever overcome hurdles that are tripping up a lot of people in their text study about the things I mentioned earlier, like why these people groups, why this lineage, why did he kill off an entire group of people? Like what how do you wrestle with that? So that has helped me because your commentary helps supplement, but then it's also helped me keep up with all the narrative of scripture and how the story fits together.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

How dovetails. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

So I I think part of what you're touching on without saying it directly is that just like in studying and getting to know a person, you have to figure out how you and that person best connect. Just like in building a relationship, you have to figure out and put effort towards asking questions and building bridges. The same thing I think is true for scripture. You have to put effort towards connecting with and learning how you engage with scripture that helps you understand scripture, and then you treat it in a relational way. That way it doesn't become like it's not a just a text, it's not a study book, it's not something you're just gonna get quizzed on and be done with. It is it is a living and breathing thing, and it's a holy thing. So we can interact with it in a relational way. That has helped me overcome my hurdles that are different than yours, or different than Jonathan's. You know, it's I have my own unique things, and so does anyone else studying scripture and sitting with with text. So, to that same thought, um, there's a lot covered in scripture, like killing off people, wars. We're experiencing a lot of these conversations right now because our our world is in is in turmoil constantly. But as Christians wrestle with what's going on in the world and they go to scripture, they're like, Well, in scripture there were wars and whole people groups suffered. How do we reconcile what we're reading in scripture and what we're seeing in culture? And how do we know that was the Lord telling us what happened versus showing us what's okay to continue to happen?

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Um, the Bible is is an instruction book on on the way to know and love God. It's also a history book capturing multiple people groups over thousands of years in multiple geographic areas. Um it's capturing the and not shying away from the fallenness of humanity, the wickedness of humanity. The Bible captures that. The Bible is real, it's about as real as you can get. And there are things we're not going to understand this side of heaven, but when we get there and we see it all being replayed, then we'll go, oh, that's why God did that.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

He obviously knew more than we did. He saw the history of that people. He he he saw it, and while he was trying to draw from that people group to himself, nobody responded. They were all hostile and they like murdering babies. They they weren't gonna stop, they were gonna keep going. So God just basically said, That's enough. Wipe them out. Be better for them to be removed and to keep going that way.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Does God still feel that way about people? Does God still act that way? I mean, how'd we reconcile what scripture says that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever? If that happened then, could it not happen now?

SPEAKER_01 32:21

It could. It could. I mean, uh, God's ways are beyond us. I'm not gonna say that it will or that it is, but it could. But see, we need we need to understand that God always knows more than we do. Right. And our reasonings don't measure up to his reasonings. Our reasonings are an inch deep, his reasonings are as deep as the universe. And so we just don't measure up in trying to force our belief system on the creator, on the master designer, on the one who was and is and is to come, not bound by time and space. God's beyond all that. So there are times when I just say I don't understand, don't need to understand. It's not going to cause doubt because I know where doubt comes from. And in studying God's word, if the enemy can get doubt in me when I'm in God's word, that is obviously a demonic work. Because I'm in the holy love letter that God wrote for my life to be blessed. And then to come out of that with doubt, that's not a work of the of the kingdom of light. It's a work of the kingdom of darkness.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

When people come to question the validity of Scripture, what are the fast things that you hold to? Like it's the holy, it's the holy word of God, it's you know, one of the oldest, most um consistent texts. What are the other things you add to that?

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Well, one of the things is how history cherished the word of God. So once again, I reference back, because you've been to Israel, I reference back to just think of the synagogue in Magdala. We actually get to walk right up the beam of seats right there. We get there's a rope, but we're right there where Jesus sat down, unrolled Isaiah, and began to read it. So the way that they cherished the first five books of the Bible, the way that they cherished the historical accounts of the kings, the way that they cherished the words of the prophets. Um when Jesus sat down and opened and read out of Isaiah, that that gives me goosebumps thinking about that moment. The actual author himself, there in the flesh, thousands of years later, a thousand years later, don't quote me on the time, but a long time later, and he unrolls it and he reads uh about the five ministries that that uh the King of Kings that the Lord is going to have. He reads it out of their Isaiah, and then he says, and this is fulfilled in your midst. Wow, blow me away. Uh just how powerful that is. Um, he spoke in all of the synagogues of Galilee. We we know there's twelve at this point. I think we might find more. All of them. He went to every one of them. He went down to Gamela, you know, a city set on a hill right up there from the Sea of Galilee, the one that we didn't walk down to because it takes so long to walk down to it. He was there and unrolled the scroll and read the scroll. So that tells me when Jesus was here and he was ministering and he was in the place of ministry, he chose to do what was the pattern of the day, which had been the pattern for years and years and years, to sit down with a copy of the scripture and have that be what he was about in that moment in that place. That tells me that the scriptures are very important.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Ultimately, kind of pulling back on another podcast, but same concept that echoes throughout this podcast, ultimately, what you're touching on is Jesus is our example in in every way. And he treated the scriptures with reverence, with authority. He memorized it, he knew it. And so we in the same way are only going to be benefited from this same practice of truth. And one thing I love about us as a family and us as a church, and even on this podcast, as people have listened to it, probably picked up on this. We don't make the Bible something we have to go access and bring in additionally. We make the Bible something that's a part of us naturally. It just kind of pours out of our answers. We we've quoted several scriptures just in conversation. We do that as a church. Like we will never have a gathering that does not have scripture somewhere, if not all over the whole gathering, because we believe in the power and the authority of that text. I think about, I like think back on my childhood. I couldn't ever have, and I joke with mom about this because I called it Jesus juking, but I couldn't ever have a conversation with you or mom where you didn't have scripture in your own vernacular because you made it a part of who you were. And that's a big part of how I memorize scripture is by listening to you apply scripture in conversation. So I love that our church doesn't just have the Bible on a lobby wall, but we have a practice of our culture, a practice in our our voice, a practice in our nature, a practice in our way that we ministry, both worship through teaching, through times of prayer, like prayer team is trained in the same way. That scripture is a part of, it's the base of every way that we minister. It's a part of us. It's not something we just have to add on. It's a part of us. And that says something to me, and I think that changes something about us. And when we have to wrestle with the pieces that don't make sense, that trip us up, the um the parts of the complexity of the mystery of God, there is something to that wrestle, I think, for each person if they will if they will not give up on it, not bail, that there's a greater depth of revelation for them if they'll stay in that relationship with the word and keep wrestling through it. Find out what you need to know about those authors, find out what you need to know about that text, find out what you need to know about that story. You're gonna only end up knowing more about God. There's no other way out of it. So I'm glad we're in the year of the Bible. I think it's gonna be really key to us seeing God do what we believe He's capable of in our community through this year, and even through the word that we have for this year of being a one-another kind of church. That's a that's from scripture, and that is scripture worked out in our church and community. So, do you have any other other last thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah, let me say this. I've never seen a strong individual Christian, so a strong person who claims to be a Christ follower, nor a strong marriage that claims to be a Christ-centered marriage, nor a strong family that claims to be a Christ-centered family, nor a strong church that claims to be a Christ-centered church that didn't have strength in the Bible. So you started out describing a church that doesn't hold to a high value of the scripture, they hold to a high value of experience. Yeah. And I came back with that's what the Corinthian church was doing, and that's why so many words were written to put boundaries and directions and guidelines on their experience. But you show me someone that doesn't love the Bible, doesn't read the Bible, professes to be a Christian, and I'll show you someone that I would have concerns about what their day-by-day life is like.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

At the same time, you show me somebody who is a Bible thumper. They're gonna they're gonna Bible verse everything. I've had two examples of adult men in my life that had a bitter spirit, they were angry, they were both punished, uh, lost their parents, both of these men, uh, both of them raised by a grandmother, and they were both punished by being hit with the family Bible. That was the discipline.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Man.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

And and they were messed up individuals. Yeah. So when I say I don't see I don't see strong people that don't I don't see people that strong in life, strong with the Lord, that don't love the Bible. Mm-hmm. Haven't seen it yet. There might be one out there, but I haven't seen it yet. And I don't and I don't say that just because you read the Bible means you're gonna be perfect. Because I just described two people that read the Bible and felt like it was okay to take their Bible and and hit their grandchildren with it when they were angry with them.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Well, you can even hit script people with scripture emotionally when you're angry and use scripture like a weapon in a wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

So I'm not saying that Bible reading people are godly people. Right. But I'm saying that people that don't read the Bible, don't love the Bible, don't hear God through his love letter as often as they can. I've not seen one that's that's strong spiritually, that's free from sin, that's overcoming temptation, that loves God, loves people, has good relationships. I just haven't met that person yet.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

It's a spirit and truth.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

It's a there we go. Transformation of nature.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Yep. And that word, so you just quoted John, uh, Jesus speaking in John. So spirit there is is the word for pneumata. Uh in breath, air, humidity. Right now we can't see it, but we know it's here. And truth is a lathe of facts that cannot be denied. And many times the word truth is referring to the Bible. Yes. Here are facts that cannot be denied. This is truth. God's word is truth. And so our Christian life should be spirit and truth, not just spirit, not just truth. That's a good way to put a bow on this. And so the scripture shows us what spiritual life is like, spiritual things, spiritual giftings, uh, hearing God, etc. All the all the what would be called ethereal things, but they're natural things if you're in a relationship with God. That's all spirit side. And then truth side are the facts, the details, the things that God put in there so that we would know He was the one speaking and giving the clarity on this subject. You need both. Yeah. And I just can't get concerned that we drift away from truth all too easy, and truth becomes relative, yours, mine, ours, theirs. And and staying in the word, I think, is gonna keep us stay to stay closer to truth.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Amen. Well, it's a fast podcast on the Bible, but I think that's it's just enough to encourage, maybe challenge, and then maybe reinspire people to stay anchored in truth and in the word. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Amen. Thank you, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

It's gonna be a blessing, a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Peace out.