£1.3M a Month, 400 Ads and a Billionaire Plan: Will Brown’s Info Business Blueprint

Will Brown went from DJ to trader, to selling a basic $50 “Word doc” to building an online education business that hit £16.4M and sold to private equity, then he scaled his advisory firm BG&E (Build, Grow & Exit) to £1.3M/month while working with 741+ clients.

In this episode, Will breaks down the real mechanics behind scaling an online business: hiring, paid ads, why most “info businesses” stay small, and how to build a product ladder that keeps clients longer (instead of losing them after a few months). They also cover the hard realities of platform dependence, what Will still gets wrong, and why ambition without balance can wreck you.

If you sell knowledge online, coaching, courses, programs, masterminds, training, consulting, this is a blueprint on scaling revenue, retention, and operations without making your business fragile.

Timestamps:
0:00 - Coming Up 
0:16 - Intro 
0:42 - Who is Will Brown? 
2:38 - DJ to Trader to Info Millionaire 
6:22 - Building the first business from scratch (the $50 “Word doc” start)
8:11 - Hiring, running ads, and hitting a million 
15:37 - What came after the exit 
17:56 - The new consulting business and first clients 
19:34 - Scaling past a million a month: what changes
24:45 - Who Will learns from (and why it worked) 
29:34 - The fitness coach problem: £250 CPA + the 7-month drop-off 
31:43 - Product ladder: keep clients longer 
34:30 - Why most online education businesses stay small
37:28 - Free time, investing, and the billionaire goal 
40:39 - Can this playbook work in any niche? 
43:11 - The danger of relying on one platform 
48:34 - What Will gets wrong (and why balance is hard) 
51:01 - Is networking bullshit? 
53:47 - Final thoughts 

Follow William:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/willia_mbrown/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-brown-01a310182/
Website: https://buildgrowandexit.com/?

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Connect with Matt Haycox, No BS Business Podcast Host & 8-Figure Entrepreneur.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One of my goals is to become a billionaire, which I've modelled out countless times, countless scenarios. What is the model and what is the timeline to get to be a billionaire? The current projection is to get me to a billionaire at 64 years old.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Guys, welcome back to an episode I've been very excited for. I've been trying to get this guy in the studio for a while. Never mind in the studio, I've been trying to get this guy out of his house. And I don't know if he wears an ankle, ankle tag. Not right now. Right now, I'm free. But he's out. So Will Brown is with us. Will Brown, the the OG coach, the king of the info space. I say that because obviously I I know a lot of you guys in this space and I'm I've been around it a bit, but I guess as as as well known as you are to the coaches, I would imagine to a lot of my audience, you know, that they don't know who you are. So tell us who you are and how you make so much fucking money.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I I I never know where to start when people ask me this. Um you know, I could start with the whole music career thing. So from the age of about 20 to about 25, I DJed all over all around the world in over 45 countries. Um was not very rewarding financially, which was what took me into uh the trading career next. How old were you doing the DJ? Well, I so I got signed at about the age of I think 20. And then when I got signed, I got an agent and a manager. Um within three weeks I was playing in Sweden and then bloody Amsterdam and New York and New Zealand, and it just went mad straight away. Why was it not financially rewarding? I was getting paid, depending on the show. I mean, the music that I played was like club music, essentially. I was getting paid about £600 a show. Sometimes, if it was a big festival, maybe two grand. If it was a small show, maybe £400. But that's not enough to live on when you're doing some months nine shows, some months zero shows. You know, I I could go seven weeks without a show sometimes. And it was good enough to live on when I was young, and I live with my with my parents, but when I was like 25-26, my friends started buying houses, getting married, buying nice cars, I just didn't have the money for it. And I started to realise as I got older, oh hold on a minute, I can't get a mortgage on a 300k house. I, you know, I certainly couldn't afford a wedding back back then, no, not that I was going to get married. Or a divorce. Certainly not a divorce. Certainly not a divorce. So yeah, age 25, 26, I started to realise, hmm, it's not stable income, it's not reliable, I can't get a mortgage, and f the whole financial side just became more top of mind.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Knowing what you know about business now, and from from what you I guess teach your clients from coaching, is there nothing you could have done back then to make the DJing side more profitable? I mean, I I find it a very funny thing, the DJing thing. I mean it's not it's not my let's say it's not my scene. Uh obviously if I'm in a club, it's what I listen to, but to but to me, everyone's the fucking same. Like now now, maybe that's just because it's not my music and I I can't hear it, but I always think, you know, like how does Calvin Harris get whatever, 250 grand for a gig and you know, Will Brown gets 300 quid or 500 quid or whatever? Because because to me, neither of you don't sound any different. Like you you you could play Calvin's tracks, and to me you will be the same. Now, maybe I'm completely uneducated and you can really hear the difference in the same way that that Elton John is very different to Joe Blow. But uh you know like to me it's it's almost a very commoditized industry.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

It is, yeah. I mean it's it comes down to really how many people can listen to your music and buy it and enjoy it. And if it's underground music, it's harder. If it's pop music, it's easier. That affects the fee a lot. How big is your audience? How famous are you, how many people are gonna come to a show if you get booked, which I had a small audience, maybe like I don't know, 50, 60, 70,000 people or something like that. So yeah, the the top of my kind of reach back then was like six, seven hundred pounds a show. Some months I would make 15 grand, some months I'd make 500 pounds or something like that. And then I came home, I was DJing at a club called Fabric in in London one night. And I came home the next day, and by the time I got home, uh there was a uh trading documentary on TV, super, super glamorised, you know, these young guys with the Lambos and the watches, all this bullshit, right? But that was the first time that I ever learned you can make money off the computer. I I before I saw that, I'd never heard of making money on the computer or online at all, ever, right? And it just blew me away. And we're talking about trading stocks and shares here about then, are we? Trading stocks and shares. So straight away after I saw that documentary, I put £500 in a trading account, just Googled, j picked any random broker, chucked the money in there, had no strategy, and I turned it into about eight grand over three or four or five months, which to me was more money than I'd ever seen, especially from the computer. Right. I I remember once I was DJing in New Delhi, and I took a trade at the airport, flew to India, got to the hotel, and I'd made more from the trade that I took than the show that I was playing in in Delhi. And I was like, man, this is unbelievable. Like you can press these buttons and make money. But how were you learning what to trade though? Well, uh let me finish the story. So a few months later, um, I remember I I'd made somewhere around seven or eight or nine K from that £500, and I blew almost all of it in a day. On the bad trade. On a bad trade. Because I didn't really know what I was doing, right? I was just fumbling around, beginners look, watching YouTube, watching Twitter and stuff like that. And that loss taught me a very valuable lesson. It left me with a little bit of money that I took out and I bought a course from this guy, Chris, and I bought some mentoring calls with another trader, Tom. And that was the first kind of online education that that I'd ever bought. That allowed me to learn how to trade properly. And if we fast forward a year from there, people were starting to ask me to teach them what I was doing, right? And that was the start of my online education business, the first one that I grew to 16.4 million and sold to private equity. That's how it started with a guy messaging me on Twitter and asking to pay me for my time. And he came to my mum, mum and dad's house, where I still lived, he PayPal'd me $50, came to the house for three hours, made a little word document, and that was my first ever customer, right? And that obviously went on to change my life.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And what so when you started the the business and were doing it more, let's say, structured and officially, uh I mean, what was the offer? What was the product?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Dude, well, the way it came about was that guy messaged me, he came to the house, he made a word document, I kept a copy of it, and it just occurred to me, if he would pay for my help, m maybe other people would as well. So I started messaging all my Twitter followers saying, you know, hey, this guy came to my house and he made this document and he's really happy. You can have it for $50 as well. And I made a few sales, made a few hundred dollars, which was impactful to me back back then, because I was still trading a bit and doing music a little bit and living with my parents. So the offer at first was a $50 word doc, and then it became the the customers started giving me feedback and then it turned into more of like an ebook PDF thing with images and FAQs and stuff like that. I slowly raised the price, then added in coaching with it, which I used to call Skype sessions because it was Skype back then. Skype. Not not even Zoom. Showing our age. This is like 2019 or something like that. And dude, that first year I made 22 and a bit, thousand pounds, right? Selling the the education. Only to your kind of Twitter audience, okay. Just Twitter. I had Twitter like less than a thousand followers and made 22 grand, which was about the same as I was making from music, more more, more or less, you know. So then going into I think it was 2019, the second year, I'd made about a quarter of a million. I'd turned it into a Dropbox folder of videos with coaching sessions and this big ebook PDF thing, and we had different tiers, you know, for just the videos or the videos with some coaching calls. It was becoming a bit more of a business and a program. And it just kept building from there. You know, I stopped doing music after that, um, and things just went crazy. And so at what point did you take on a member of staff or did you run an ad? Yeah, so in I think it was 2019, that was the second year of the education business. We did about a quarter of a million pounds that year, and I'd hired one of my best customers to be a coach, another one of my best customers to do support, and then uh I bought a coaching programme from this guy, Alex Becker, at the end of that year. I remember him that taught me how to run ads. Yeah, the guy that founded Hyros, and he taught me about funnels and copywriting and paid ads and stuff, and then shit just went mad. You know, we did like what £1.1 million pounds in the the third year, and I became a millionaire, and and it was just it was just wild. Then it just kept getting bigger and bigger from there. How long did you have that business before you sold it?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Five and a half years. Okay. And and how did the sale come about?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

You what you wanted to sell it, or yeah, well, I was at a mastermind, this financial literacy mastermind by a guy called Dan Bradbury, if you've ever ever heard.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I've heard the name, I'm not sure I've heard the name.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

And it was in Dan's mastermind. It was actually the first ever day, the first ever time I went to the mastermind. I remember it clearly. We went for lunch and we were sat having lunch in this cafeteria of like an events building, and he said to me, Will, when do you think you'll sell this business? And I was like, I don't think I can sell it, man, because it's like my name, my face, it's pretty much all me with a little team. And he said to me, You can definitely sell it, you can sell it whenever you like. The only difference is the buyer and the price. So if it's a shit business with a lot of key man risk based on you, you'll probably sell to a little buyer for a little price. And if you build it properly, you'll sell to a bigger buyer for a bigger price, right? So he was the one that planted the seed. And then after about five years, I was in Dubai in the building that I used to live in, writing in my journal one day, and I just didn't want to run the business anymore. You know, I didn't like the customers, I didn't like the niche, I didn't need it anymore because I'd made so much bloody money by by that stage. I'd made more than I ever could have dreamed of. And I I said to Dan, like, do you think I could sell it? And he was like, Well, let's work together and I'll I'll mentor you and I'll help you get it ready, I'll help you find a MA advisor and a buyer. That was November, uh, I think 2022, if I remember correctly, and then we sold in September 2023. Okay. So it took us about just below a year to to sell.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So talk talk me through that year in terms of in terms of the kind of changes that uh that you made to the business. I think you know it was we were talking the other day because I I gave a talk on Saturday at a at uh an event for e-com founders. Yeah. And the crux of my speech was you know what I called the valuation gap, where it's you know that the the difference between a business, well, that isn't really a business, it's just somebody making a lot of money and enterprise value in that, you know, in terms of that income being worth a lot of money. And it's it's something that's you know very often hard. Well, either you don't know what you don't know, so you don't know it's not a business, or also ego gets in the way and it's like, well, fuck you, it's not a business. I'm making seven, eight, nine hundred grand a year, of course it's a business. Um, and and I imagine what I was talking about then probably features a lot in what you're gonna tell me, tell me over the happened during that one year period. So what was the business, what state was the business in, let's say, on day one?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Yeah, good question, man. Well, I'd accidentally remove myself a lot. So that when I messaged Dan, we had a sales team manager, a sales team, a setting team, a coaching team, a support team, uh, media buyer writing and and running the ads, and uh the media buyers were doing the funnel design and architecture as well. I was pretty much removed, actually, from from the business, and that was actually part of the reason why I wanted to sell, because it was fucking boring, you know. But equally, I remember the founder of the PE firm said, Why do you want to sell? And I said to him, even though I'm removed, it's still in my head. You know, every day I'm thinking about is this team okay? Are we profitable on ads? What's the net margin gonna be this month? What are we gonna do if this happens? So even though I was removed, it was still in my head, you know, and I would always be thinking about it. And I said to them, I want to get it out of my head and just give it to you guys and start fresh with a clean slate and go and build a consulting business. So it was in a it was in a pretty good spot. Uh the financials were a little bit fucked, you know, like the PLs were by me, kind of looked at by my accountant, but not really. Um that caused a bit of havoc in the end. We ended up knocking some money off the sale because there was loads of not loads, but little PL errors, you know, that they picked up on. So that knocked a few hundred thousand off the sale price in the end. But um the process was more just finding a good MA advisor, taking the IM out to market, finding buyers. One of them fell through before we found the the P firm that bought us, and dude, it was just due diligence, man. It was long. I was not prepared for that at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Did did Dan help help you find that MA uh buyer did he? Uh MA agent? It's interesting because one of the questions I got asked after I was talking uh on uh Saturday was was about um you know how do I find the buyer? To which I would say, well, you know, you need to work with an agent, but you've got to be so careful when you do work with that agent because there's a whole business model in shit agents who will never ever sell a business, they just tell you that your business is worth ten times more than it's worth, ask you for a six grand, twelve grand, fifteen grand fee to list it, and you never ever ever hear from them again.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, there's a lot of that out there, man. Like, I don't I don't know why people go to business brokers. I swear to God, the success rate with business brokers is is is tiny. But with a good MA advisor, because so for my one, he didn't get paid until I sold. You know, there was a little monthly retainer, like quite a small amount of money, but he was incentivized to sell it. You know, so like anything in life, you've got to look at where the incentives are, you know, to kind of judge what people's behaviour will be. But anyway, I was lucky, had a good MA advisor, we found the PE firm, and after uh we signed the LOI in April. So it took us what, May, June, July, August, September, about five months, five five and a half months to actually go from signing the LOI to signing the BPA and actually and actually closing. And did you did you have to stay on afterwards? For three months. Is that all? Yeah, so we we closed September 30th and they made me stay until Jan 1st. And then after that, they just they wanted me to they just wanted one call with me every other week, most of which they didn't even use.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

So So you'd removed yourself pretty well from a key man perspective, then it it wasn't it wasn't well branded, it it it didn't need you anymore by that point.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah, and also that was a faceless company.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Okay, as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

It was always faceless. It was always faceless, yeah. And the reason it was faceless was because when I started it, I was scared that music people would see me doing trading and see me doing the business and think I was a twat, right? And be like, oh what who's this musician doing this business stuff? Because music is such an anti-capitalist industry, you know, so it's like frowned upon to I don't know, invest and make money and stuff. I know a really famous musician who I still stay in touch with, um, and he is terrified to invest in case people find out, and it and it fucks up his career, you know. So he he's like stopped himself building wealth just on the off chance it fucks his music career.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So you sold. Yep. Um you said a minute ago that when you were talking to the PE guys about why you wanted to sell, you were saying, like, I want it out of my head and I just want to go and build a consulting business. But so did you know you wanted to build a consulting business, or were you gonna take a time out?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Or I did, yeah, because my dude, my number one thing that that I enjoyed the most back then was just talking about business. Man, I just loved, I was so desperate to like go for dinner with people and talk about business and go for coffees and talk about business, and I just loved it, and that was what I naturally gravitated towards and loved the most. And I remember saying to Dan, I was like, this is what I love, and I barely ever do it. So I really want to sell this company and go and do that full time and like do podcasts and write a book and build a consulting business. So yeah, dude, I I I knew that I wanted to do it, and then I was already writing the book as I was selling the company, so I could put it out afterwards, if I hopefully sold, you know, which thankfully we did. And then I started the YouTube channel straight away. The first big video I made was the one the day that I got the wire, and that got like a hundred thousand views, got us loads of customers, and shit just went wild fast, you know. It was within the with within a few months, it was just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

It was the book. I actually think about it now. I first came across you from the book. Oh yeah. Yeah. I I I did I didn't know you or the book before, but you know, it was one of those. I was having a I I kind of dump some cash on Amazon Day, yeah. And um and it you know just pops up, you know, like you buy this, and yeah, people may also have bought this, and you know, I never bothered reading the reviews, it's just like what's the title? Oh, you look like how to make ten mil or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds alright. Tick tick tick. And then and then I remember reading it, and and you were saying that you were from Huddersfield and I was like, ah Dude, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

There you go, point proven. You know, the book is a powerful asset, man. That's made me a lot of money. That book.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

When you say made you a lot of money, not made you money from the 19 quid or whatever it cost to buy the book, made money from opening people into your world.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Like I've probably made 30k from the book in the last two and a half years. Um, but yeah, it's just the people, when they read that book, it builds so much trust and so much respect and revere, you know, and it kind of gets people excited about what they have learned and can do now. And then they come into the coaching programme, you know, we've had our biggest sales ever off that book, so it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

You said a minute ago you you know you recorded a YouTube video the day that you'd done the wire and it it w it went off big and and got you got you some of your first clients. Yeah. Was it one of the things that you know you teach a lot now to your audience is is about your offer, you know, your offer, your funnel. Did you have a co uh a consulting offer ready back then?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, yeah. So back then the offer was uh dude, it was it was just 5k per month USD for one call a week. That was the offer. 5k, one call with me, and I'll tell you what to do, right? So a bit ghetto. Tell you what to do, what that's like who was your ICP? Well, my first ever customer was a guy called Oliver Denier, and he had an e-com uh coaching business doing about, I think he was doing like 40, 50k a month back then, and he really wanted to crack six-figure months, but just could never do it. Within two months, he crossed his first six-figure month, right? And I would just tell him what to do. I was like, right, well, your funnel is not built properly, so let's fix that. And your sales script is wrong, your price is wrong, your offer is wrong, uh, you're not doing re-offers to your email list properly. And I just told him what to do, and within literally a couple of months, he crossed his first six-figure month. He was my first ever customer, my first ever testimonial. So there you go. So just for the first 15 customers or so, I just had calls with them on Zoom, would tell them what to do. Then I built a training program to go with it. Then I added in my WhatsApp to go with it, um, slowly raised the price, then we kind of turned it into like a group program, one-to-one programme, done for you programme, which it which it is now, and things just just went crazy, man. You know, we were doing 400k a month within within five months of launching. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

How's it changed along along the that journey? You know, either in terms of of who your ideal customer is, or you know, uh your route to market, your funnels, your your your customer acquisition. Has it changed or has it just scaled?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

It's it's changed and it's scaled. I mean, we're doing much bigger numbers now. You know, we did 1.1 million last month for April, which was uh the biggest month we've ever had. It's it's become a proper business again, you know, with a sales team manager and a sales team and a support department and project managers and all this crazy stuff. So it's become more of a business again. The ideal customer has shifted more towards actually business owners that don't know what info is. Okay. That's the prime primary avatar now, because we find that they are not jaded. You know, the the whole like course and coaching space has a bad name. So these business owners, what what what businesses are they in? What what are they selling? Uh dude, it's very wide. I mean um famous church pastors, uh famous tennis players, famous uh pianists, lawyers. I'm trying to think who else has come in recently. Real estate professionals, recruitment uh professionals is a big one. We just had a big uh Australian commercial real estate guy sign for a year. So it's people they have a talent or specialist knowledge in a field that other people would want to learn, but they're brand new to this whole course and coaching space, and through us, through our ads, they find out that they can sell their knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

So I was gonna say, so just to be clear, because maybe I misunderstood when you were saying it, so it's people who are not in the info space, but because the info space people are pretty jaded, but yeah, but you then bring them into the info space and um and monetize their knowledge. So when you said a real estate guy, I was thinking, oh, are you helping an actual real estate agent generate leads or something for example? No, you you're you're helping him teach other real estate agents how to make more money.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Exactly, exactly. So it's tennis players that teach tennis, pianists that teach piano, real estate people that teach how to invest in real estate, traders that teach how to trade, um, and and vice versa. Yeah. And when they understand the model, they get stars in their eyes. You know, because m most businesses out there are very hard to start, need massive teams, have low profit margins, and are just a mission, right? Info is the opposite in everyone, it's so easy to start. You can have your first customer in in weeks, right? The margin when you start can be 90 odd percent. blood bloody if you do the sales yourself it can be 99% you know so it's so easy to put 50k a month 100k a month profit in the bank very very quickly and and very very le uh easily that's just the upside of the model the downside is scalability is is a problem you know a lot of businesses low margin but you can scale them very far info is the complete opposite it's very easy and fast but it's harder to scale what would you say a typical ceiling is and I and yeah and you've you've probably breached that ceiling multiple times uh over over the last couple of years yeah I think I mean most successful info people tend to plateau around I would say 200 grand a month yeah people and that's a that's a lot of money man when the profit margin is is 80% that's a lot of money some people are like me and they're just a psycho and they just want to see how far they can take it. But but but what what's what's the difference then between their 200 grand and your and your and your million quid month the prices and and and the strength of the offers right so most people just sell a little coaching program for 5k 10k something like that do about 10 20 units a month tiny little team in them and it's just like a little one man style business thing right and that tops out at about 200k a month ish. If you want to go to 500 and a million plus like we have per month then you need a friggin' sales team a setting team a sales team manager project managers to help with client load support paid ads someone to write them and run them a full-time media buyer you've got to build out proper infrastructure and it becomes a real business if you do that you can leapfrog to 500 a month million a month plus like but most people don't want to deal with the hiring and firing and management and stress and ads and just that's what separates the big guys from the small guys.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And you know whether or you can be bothered with it now is is is is another question but I mean if you were really all in psycho how much more than a million a month could you push this?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

I think our company well we did 1.3 top line last month I think we could we we could do two I think we could get to about two and a half million a month before things get too crazy. You know and that that next level of chaos I is I do not want that. But but you but you want to push to the two and a half? Dude it's not even that hard. But what we're doing now last month taught us me and the team we learned how in control we are even at this scale you know I think because we've just got good systems good protocols good organisation a very good team very very very good team so we're still nice and stable at this level so I think things will get crazy about two mil a month.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Who are you learning from at this stage?

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Because I mean I know you're you know you're very um active in the in as a mentee as well as a mentor who who who are your go-to's to help you at this level yeah dude I've always got a mentor pretty much at all times I've got somebody mentoring me so I've got a mentor right now but I don't want to name him because I know I don't want to give him I don't want to give away my edge I know he is but we won't but we won't say we won't put his name in the links not say it but basically it was uh this guy he's technically he's a software founder you know he built a very big software for a very big global company has made over 200 million um through that and I met him at a mastermind right that I was uh speaking at and he was speaking at and we just got along really well and I remember we were on a break and he said to me tell me about the business and I was telling him right we run ads people see the ads they watch a little explainer video they book in a call and they join the program right and he just didn't get it he was like like why do you need to run ads and why do you need to had to have a sales call and why are all the programs different prices and stuff and he just didn't get it but he was giving me such good advice ma'am he was really making me think outside the box and the good ideas that got us to a mil a month were were really his.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Any of those any of those you can share without giving away the edge?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yes I I alright I'll try it. So some were simple but people don't do them and some were ones I'd never think of so one of them was he said to me you know he was asking about paid ads and I was telling him yeah usually when people make ads they'll make 10 or 20 ads and get them out there and test them. He was like why would you not make 400 ads? And I was like well I mean it's there's a lot of effort and he was like well if no one does that why don't you do it and and see what happens so we made a fucking massive batch of ads and that gave us a massive edge and we could spend way more.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And taking that as a specific example a little what what what difference did did you see and because I mean again you know to to a lot of people listening to this even making 20 ads sounds a lot because you know pick people will make an ad you know maybe maybe a static and a vi and and a video but you know twenty twenty is a lot 400 is is an immense amount where does the difference come in is is it that because I guess ultimately whether you've got 20 ads or you've got 400 ads there's only one best performer. And I guess there's only one set of the top three whether it's the top three of twenty or the top three of four hundred so what where does the uh the financial edge come out of that?

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah the reason that more ads gives you an edge is because every ad is like throwing a dart at a dartboard right and the more darts it you throw the faster you hit a bullseye and the more bull bullseyes you hit. Okay. Right? It's like buying buying lottery tickets. If you bought a million tickets who knows you the the chances of winning are a lot higher right so you're running these 400 ads effectively simultaneously so that the last batch that we did we did 64 hooks four bodies and all the hooks go on each of the four bodies which is like I don't know what is that about 250ish ads something like that. Video static a mix of video and static as well so whatever that number is double it again because we'll do them all as images we'll do them all as videos and that gave us a massive edge it allowed us to spend way more and stay profitable as well because most people that's the problem they don't have enough ads to spend more and then it breaks faster so that was one little thing that we did which is quite obvious but hard. Another thing that got us to over a million a month was um focusing on existing customers instead of just chasing new ones. So getting more money out of them. Yeah I mean I've been so guilty over the years of just get more customers get more customers get more customers when they come in just let let them do their thing leave them alone to progress and we really switched that thinking this year over the last few months we were like right let's sell more things to our existing customers let's renew them at the end for the same more bigger programs. Anyone that's left let's go back through them all text them email them call them make them bigger better offers and that alone made us 400 grand la last month or or around that just through the customers from from the past. And are you inventing something particularly different to to to sell to them? Not really no like um I mean I'll give you an example so we had one guy that paid 36k for five months and the five months was ending last month so we went back to him and we said right would you like to stay a little bit longer and he was like yes okay listen how would you feel about doing a year instead and we'll do 5000 pounds for a year and we'll give you two mastermind tickets for you and a partner for all of the events that we run and we'll give you this thing that we don't normally give to everybody because it's like that's our thank you to you and and he renewed at 50k right and we had a few instances like that last month.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

So I earlier this morning I recorded a another podcast with a guy who's a fitness coach and he I mean he's offers you know lower budget and and different but he he's he's charging two grand for six months training. Very cheap you'd be disgusted how to send him in your direction. His sole funnel is running an ad to buy to to buy a follower and then DMing that follower getting them on a call selling them for selling them from that call. But I asked him what his uh lifetime value of a customer was and it's typically about seven months. How would you advise someone in that position?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah I that's a really common scenario that you just mapped out there and it makes me it reminds me of the fact that these businesses are simply cost per acquisition versus lifetime value. You know and those unit economics that you just told me there where it costs him about 250 to make about two grand are phenomenal right now. But as he scales that the cost per acquisition will go up and up and up and up and up and eventually the cost per acquisition is going to be two grand and he's gonna be fucked basically it's like game over. So amazing right now terrible in in the long term and the way that I would fix that is I mean just as an example we have a fitness client that charges 15,000 for four months pretty much the same offer like busy men get a six pack. So the question becomes well why is this I almost said his name there but why is this guy charging 15 and this guy charging two and often the answer is brand andor results. You know so I'm guessing this guy's a bit smaller and a bit newer or something like that. Whereas the 15k guy is a bit further ahead bigger brand more results blah blah blah so I would go more in that direction of building the brand um maybe working with higher level people and having I would shorten it to maybe X for three months and then renew the best guys on a 5k or an 8k or a 10k or a 12k to build the LTV and if you can get the LTV up you can scale way way further you know so that's that that's the edge. The bigger the LTV that you have the further you can scale the more money you can make you can smash your fucking competitors out of the market that's the game right there.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And do you think people like that should be having I I call them cross sells you know whatever you want to call them cut cut comp complimentary cells if someone wants to drop off after after six or seven months anyway because they just want to drop off it do you have a down sell some some hundred quid a month software or you know do you have the the big upsell of you can fly out to me in barley and and and I'll kick your ass for a week.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah yeah dude definitely I mean like I'll try and keep this fast alright but I'll I'll just tell you what products we actually sell so that you've kind of got the picture. So we have the book at the very bottom then we've got Do you push that do you do do you do you run funnels and run ads on the book as well? Yep yep so we've got the book at the very bottom that's like $12. The next thing up that we sell is the just one hour one-off calls with me for $3,000 right it's like a standalone thing. Then we've got the group program the one-to-one programme the dumb for you program which is priced by the month but if you pay for multiple months up front we give you free ones so we incentivize people to buy as many up front as possible. Buy two months get a third buy three months get a fifth or whatever exactly exactly that double the business when when we implemented that double the business overnight it's crazy. Then we've got uh internal software tools hidden inside the training program so when customers come in they'll buy this software for 297 they'll buy this software for 97 that builds in the LTV so even when they leave they're still paying the subscriptions for months and years right uh then we've got the one day masterminds that we run the three day masterminds that we run as well and then we sell uh setters and closers inside the program on the back end as well so can you imagine man like the LTV that's built through that ecosystem is pretty large.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

So in terms of what you can sell without either a let's say a telephone call or to you know to a very never mind warm audience probably someone who's already a fan or a client is that just really really the book I mean like so it goes book then three grand coaching call is anyone buying a coaching call who doesn't really know you already good question yeah so the reason that's there is because we have a lot of people that will book a sales call but they're just not ready yet for the main program.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

So they'll say like oh they'll often say can I just have like one call with Will you know just to explore it and do an hour session and that's why we invented that to satisfy that need of the guys they're not hot enough to buy the programs yet but they want to buy something and they need some help so those are the ones that will buy that call and then off the back of that call often they'll realize oh I am ready and then they will come in off that call and what we do we give them two weeks to credit it towards a program. So there's a bit of urgency there to use that before they lose it as well so that that's a useful little mechanism.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

What what do you think the biggest mistake that you know people who are stuck at let's say whatever level not whatever level but you know they're let's say stuck at a low level 5k a month 10k 10k a month you know is it lack of ICP is it you know lack of right marking channel is it failed offer you know what what what or all of the above?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah I mean if you're only doing 5k or 10k a month I'd say pretty much everything is wrong. Like because you that you it's it's almost hard to make such small numbers.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

What what what's the one thing that let's say even if you get the other bits right that if that one thing is wrong then everything fucks anyway. Like for example you know you might be running ads um you know you you you might know who your client is but if you're off a shit for example yeah I meet a lot of these guys out in Bali and it's always really interesting to talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I just love understanding like what do you want and where are you going with this thing? You know and a lot of people actually and I I respect this like I love this a lot of them are happy with just a few customers a month three four five K profit just chill and have a nice life you know we know that we know we know the same guy because I know he he's come to as a client he came on my pod and I can tell his name because we spoke about it openly on the pod Connor Weston.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Oh yeah yeah he's a good guy I like his YouTube videos yes that guy but I mean he he absolutely does not want a lot of clients because because he doesn't want to do any work. Yeah well fair enough we were talking and while he's telling me about his business he's telling me about stuff I was waiting for him to finish each time and I said this to him on the podcast I was waiting for him to finish each time to say right this is what you're doing wrong this is how you how you fix it I realised I'm wasting my breath because you don't give a fuck because it because because you actually don't want to do anymore because you you want to just smoke and chill and you you you just want to earn enough money to you know to to do what it is you want to do and he was like yeah absolutely yeah yeah it's funny because I was on his YouTube video uh YouTube channel like a like a week ago or something and there's something on the channel and there's something that he told me in real life when I met him he said he wants to do a million a month right so there's a bit of a gap there.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

On the one hand he told me that he wants to do a mill a month on the other hand he's told me and also you that he wants to stay quite small. So I'd love to know which one is the most powerful and why and and what he thinks of the other.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I mean I mean my guess would be he wants to do a mill a month but he only wants to do what he's doing what he's doing now it's like we all want to win the lottery but we all want to buy the ticket. True that true that yeah well well said well said I guess that's the line but you know something interesting man I'll sh I'll share this because it's on that topic but I've never worked less than I do now even after the biggest month ever last month and it goes back to the way that you build a business you know if you build it right it will run without you you know so now I'm I'm pretty much removed from everything but onboarding one-to-one's of which I've got two today and then somewhere on Thursday well man I've never had more free time in my life but I've never made more money in my entire life so there's something interesting what do you do in that free time though because I'm I would as a as a man who never leaves a house I would I would I would imagine your free time is is work related anyway as as is mine.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah I just love it man I just like probably the number one thing I do when I'm not working is learning. I love reading books what watching podcasts just I just love I always am driven by this thing like what do I not know now that would take me to the next level or make my life better or make my relationships better or something like that and I love I love making the money I love managing it I love investing in man I love it's really really geeky but I've got this like net worth spreadsheet thing that I look at every few days every every seven days I write down all my liquid cash and track it in a pie chart and shit but I just love it you know and one of my goals is to become a billionaire which I've modelled out countless times countless scenarios like I chat to Claude for two hours about what if I put do this with equities what if I buy this real estate here what if I scale a business to here but with this margin.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

So what what what's the answer? What what is what is the model and what is the timeline to get to be a billionaire because I mean as as impressive as making a mill a month is you know a billionaire is it's like being a whatever you know a a phenomenal football player and being David Beckham how how how do we get there? What's the model?

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Yeah well I I that's why I want it because I think I it's certainly not for the money. I want the respect and the revere you know because I think that was always lacking when I was a kid and I think because I didn't really get respect until I was a musician. So for the first 20 years of my life I was just like a bit of a loser just broke nothing special never good at anything and I think that carries a lot of weight in my life now you know I think that's why I go so far now because I want to get all the respect and the revere and the you know it it feels good man when you're like special you know and and and that's what I I think I chase and that's definitely the reason for the the billionaire goal.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

But it's a very honest admission you know I mean I mean most people would it would deny the obsession with status whilst seeking the status.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I'm very aware man because I have a lot of time to think about these things you know and I think about them deeply I always ask myself why do I want what I want? Why am I doing what I'm doing? Why do I keep this business? Why do I not shut it down? There's a little 10% of me that's like fuck this shit turn the turn it off you've got enough now just turn it off disappear turn all the social media off there's always a little bit of me that's like do it do it Will just go just disappear but then the 90% is like it's too good it's too fun it's too fulfilling it's too rewarding but to answer your question the current projection is to get me to a billionaire at 64 years old so about another 30 years okay based on you know what we're doing with real estate what we're doing with equities what we're earning in the business compounding at a certain rate over time blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Problem is by the time you're 64 a billion a billion will be uh I'll just be buying you a bit of lunch in the lunch in Dubai you need to run over now and factor in inflation into that model. It doesn't factor in inflation there's there's always something wrong with the model we'll see I think every if not every most entrepreneurs um and guys who've made a few quid suffer I guess suffer from the disease of of thinking that we know everything about everything. In the info space the the the models that you've got you know from uh you know ideal customer to setting an offer to acquisition channels etc you know that they are they are pretty repeatable across well I mean they're 100% repeatable across whatever your niche is whether it's a pianist a tennis player or whatever whatever how much have you ever looked at non-info failing businesses and whether whether you've done it for real or just done it out of interest and and looked at the kind of things that you apply uh that work for you that could make either failed businesses or failing industries uh better?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

On occasion we do get people that come in not to do info it's very rare it's like agencies come into us we had a management consulting firm from America that specialises in working with hospitals come in recently and they wanted help with uh running ads to get more leads you know which is that is an info it's bloody easy right so yeah we we do get them and it's always the same things it's like they need more organic reach or they need to learn paid ads to get more leads and calls or their funnel often it's a website Jesus Christ they wonder why it ain't working like I have to tell them a website is for information a funnel is for conversion if you want conversions you need a sales process not a freaking website so we we build them out like a sales process or a VS do you think there's even a s even a place for websites anymore? Not really no it's i i it's nice to have them for the sake of trust this is one thing that we've been working on recently is just building what's the word like a a trust ecosystem I guess like a good Google a good YouTube search a good AI search a good website just for the sake of like trust really rather than conversion. So that there does come a time where it's important.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Well I mean but trust and conversion go hand in hand don't you know I mean there can be no I mean I I would argue there can be no conversion without trust and and great trust you know 10x's conversion.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah definitely and uh when when you're running cold ads that's the hard part is is engineering the trust and that brings us back to what we were saying about the 15k fitness guy versus the 2K fitness guy it's just brand and authority and trust like if you're a very famous fitness guy you can charge more.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

If you're brand new with no brand you can't charge more and vice versa you know how do you find platform dependency or you or what do you see with you know with people who are um again like the the fitness guy I was talking to you this morning I mean you know 100% of his uh his clients are coming from insta and I know you've had some horrendous luck of late uh with it with the YouTube channel going that you've spoken publicly about and I know I don't I don't know whether you've talked about it or not but I just know as a follower of you on Instagram that uh multiple times you've just you've disappeared.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Has he fucking blocked me now everyone says that to me everyone says that to me ah well I mean listen I've learned the hard way again recently it is so dangerous man you know like it's so dangerous to rely on one platform it's dangerous to rely on two or three platforms.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

What what's your what's your what's your split in terms of perspective

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah. How we get customers right now, it's uh number one ads, number two Instagram, number three the setting team, number four YouTube, number five email. And when you say ads, but are they just meta ads or are you running ads on different platforms? Uh yeah, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Okay. Yeah, so that's the foundation of the business. Have you tried LinkedIn in your space? Not yet, but but we're we're gonna get to LinkedIn soon, just for the diversity. But yeah, dude, I never I never thought I'd lose my YouTube man. I never thought that would be deleted. I just it's just mad. We're in the process of getting it back, we almost certainly will, but it's just mad. And then uh I don't know whether you saw this, but then we lost the Instagram as well.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I know the other day, literally it was I'll tell you when last Thursday. Yeah, last Thursday, and the reason I know it is because I'd just seen you in the morning and in the afternoon I wanted someone on my team to make a story in a certain way, and I thought, who makes a story like that? I thought Will does it. I went on to send her a picture, and you're gone like you weren't gone four hours ago.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

But you but you but you're back again. Dude, I'll tell you what happened, right? So about two weeks ago, someone messaged me on Instagram and they were like, Hey dude, I can get you the name at William.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

I've had the one saying, I'll get you at Matt.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yeah, and normally I just delete this shit, but I don't know what was going through my head that day. I must have been in an egotistical mood, right? But I looked at the profile and he was uh had a few mutual followers, he had a tick, all this stuff, and I thought, yeah, alright. And it was pretty cheap, it's two grand. I was like, well, you know, it's fucking two grand. So I gave him half, set him off, and then the next day he was like, Oh, there's some shit wrong with your account. Like, we need the other half just to sort it out, and then we'll definitely like half an hour, you'll have the username. I was like, I think I'm getting scammed here, but fuck it, it's a grand. So I sent him the other grand, blocked, disappeared, right? Blocked on WhatsApp, blocked on Instagram. I was like, oh for fuck's sake. Alright, never mind. This shit happens. Fast forward two weeks, right, to last Thursday. I'm at Omni celebrating the million month with some buddies, having the the time of my life.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

A coconut and a bit of a card, eh?

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah, and then um I went on my phone, on Instagram, and it was all weird. Like the messages weren't there, my followers weren't there, but my name was, my pictures was. I was like, this is weird. Must be the internet, must be bad internet connections. I was like, never mind. Hour later, checked it again, it was the same. So I said to Lauren, can you find my Instagram right now? And she was like, No. And I knew what had happened. I was like, Oh, it's it's gone down again. Mad stressful, man. Um how did you get it back? Well, I I know good recovery guys, so I messaged one of them, and then he started looking into it, and then he replied and he said, Will, I've just spoken to the rep, and have you tried to change your username? I was like, Yeah, two weeks ago I got scammed trying to change it, and he was like, Well, actually, I think they tried, but they just couldn't do it because it looks like it says something about it on the back end uh Instagram, and that's why they've closed your account because they thought you were like illegally swapping usernames or some shit. I was like, right, so basically I paid to get my own Instagram deleted, right? It was back in 24 hours. Right. Thankfully. But what you're typically paying for recovery nowadays depends on the seriousness of why it was deleted. Last time I paid 20,000 to get it back.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

US.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Uh USD. Yep, so to 20 grand last time it took seven weeks, which was annoying. Uh this time it took 24 hours and it was free, thankfully, because it was so easy to do this time. He didn't charge me, which was nice of him. But uh, yeah, and for to get the YouTube back, we've paid uh 10 so far. When I lost my YouTube, I got added to a weird Telegram group, right? This is on Telegram. And I'm in some kind of group, and every few days they'll post something like, right, guys, we're getting banned fucking Facebook ads accounts back today. Let me know if you need it. A few days later, right? Let us know if you need an uh uh Instagram deleting its three grand, you know. And all I'm seeing all the shit that can be done now. It's just mad.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

But I'm also convinced that these are their sales funnels as well. That you know, that the that once once you you know, like they'll they'll find that they've got a contact route to you and they'll see how valuable those things are to you, and like and and you know they have got the ability to fix your problems if you get them, but I think they create the fucking problems for you.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

I th yeah, uh well the truth is you never know. You know, like to be honest, when the Instagram went down, my first thought was right, it's the day that I've announced I made a mill a month, someone doesn't like me and they're pissed off at the progress and they've deleted it. That was my first thought. Obviously, that didn't turn out to be true, but it could be the case because it's not that hard to delete accounts, you know, but I just want to do my own thing and fucking get on with business, you know, and stay out of this shit.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

So you're disciplined, you're systematic, you're making making good money. Yeah. What what can't you what what you what have you got wrong, what you're failing at?

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Up until now, one thing that I'm not very good at is customer success systems. Like, this is one thing I'm focused on right now is building out a dashboard for where all customers are at, what they're doing, what stage they're at, what problems they have, to try and because if we're gonna do b big numbers, that's gonna be the point of failure. You know, too many customers that can't be looked after properly, and then it all falls apart. So you mean making sure that your customers are actually getting the success? Definitely. That's my number one focus right now is like looking at where they're all at, making sure they're all happy. We just hire project managers to come in and keep their eye on them and hold their hands and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Well, I mean, and ultimately, I mean you you get you get that right, then you can scale the LTV to infinity, really. Exactly. You know, as long as as long if if you're teaching someone to put a pound in and get two pounds out, why would they ever ever leave you unless there's you know a freak event?

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Exactly, exactly. And that's what helped us so much last month is the happy customers coming back in. That really made them on. So now I've learned alright, well, let's do everything that we bloody can for these people so that they stay as long as possible. So that's the main thing. Um another thing that I'm not really good at is um just social stuff, really. I just don't really like I just like to be on my own, man. You know, I think um even when I was a musician, I was always on my own because I couldn't afford to take people with me.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

But when I say not good at, I guess like I would I I I would take that to mean um that you're that you're not happy, that you're not good at something. But when you say you're not good at social and you like being on your own, but do but do you care? I mean, I mean are you just are you happy to be on your own? Yeah I am then then I guess it's it's it's not a failing, right? Yeah, I'm not good at fitness. I wish I was better. I'm trying hard. You're the only person who's inviting me to the gym to eat, not to work out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Dude, yeah, I'll meet you at the gym, have lunch and go home. Yeah, fitness. I'm not I've never been I've never been good at fitness, man, and I've made a lot of excuses like ah business, money, I need to do well, the blah blah blah blah blah. But yeah, I need to uh sort my fitness out. I mean one of my mentors once said to me, uh, you can't have it all. You know, you can't have the world's perfect body and the world's perfect relationship and the world's perfect business and the world's perfect everything. You've kind of got to choose, you know, the the thing that's most important to you.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

So I've got to ask you one question before I let you go. Yeah. I saw on your Instagram the other day before it got banned. Thank God. That you were that you made a video and it said something along the lines of networking's a load of bullshit. I've made all this money and I've not done any networking, and networking's bullshit. I was gonna comment here, I thought, no, we're doing a poddle. I'll I'll just ask you. Okay, you've not needed to network for what for what you've done. But do you really agree that networking's bullshit? Or was it a bit of was it was it a bit of social hook?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Yeah, I I appreciate you let letting me clarify this, right? Because there's two kinds of networkings that are in my head. On the one hand, there's mastermind events, on the other hand, is random coffees and dinners and stuff like that. Now, masterminds is the best kind of networking because it's you've got to pay to be there, right? It's a cura curated room with a purpose. I love that. I love going to those and meeting everybody and learning what everyone's businesses are and sharing value with them, getting getting things from them and having fun as well. And that's networking, technically. And when I do that, I absolutely love that. It's one of my favourite things to do. When I say networking in general is bullshit, what I mean is like I have this idea in my head of like being invited out to a little restaurant or a coffee for a couple of hours with random fucking people I don't know, and just talking shit. No one really gets to say anything of substance. You're like, hey, what's your name? Oh, what do you do? Yeah, how's it going? Yeah, good. Fuck off. You know, you're never gonna see them again. There's no value there. That is a fucking stupid waste of time. That is life-changing. So, two paths. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Well well done for yeah, no, I mean I I I agree with what you're saying. I mean, I I'd take it, uh listen, networking has been a massive part of my life. I, you know, I I in the I'd put 50% of my success down, you know, down to networking. Or say networking, let's say the people in my network. And so I guess if we let's say if we want to define things, you know, what would I call networking? Well, networking is the act of growing of growing your network. Uh, you know, you and and how do you do it? Well, I guess how do you do anything? Um well, you know, you do it with intent systematically, you know, whatever. There you go. Do do I do I let's say have coffees or go to the gym or something that I would consider networking? Yes, but is it ever with a random person? Absolutely fucking. I like to go out as much as the next person. I like my wine, I like my cigars, uh yeah, like a strip club in the day or whatever the naughty bits may be. Yeah, but have I ever needed to be in any of those venues at fucking 3am to get business done? Fucking bullshit. A lot of passion coming out of you back. That's because she pisses me off and she called me fat. Say no more, say no more. Well, listen, it was a long time coming this, but it was worth the wait. Yeah, uh, really appreciate your time, mate. I'm sure the audience have had lots to learn in lots of different areas. I never looked at one of my notes, but I'm glad I did it to find out you're a DJ. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

So thanks for having me on, man. Thanks, brother. Much love.

unknown 54:02

Every day I'm muffling, every day I'm muffling, every day I'm muffling, every day I'm muffling, every day.