Matt Haycox: Bankruptcy, Parenting & Why School Doesn’t Teach Money

This week Matt is in the hot seat.

Repurposed from Dan Banks Nachmias' podcast Parenting Without the Manual, this one goes deeper than business. It's about where hunger comes from, what money actually does to kids, and how to raise children who can stand on their own two feet, without quietly doing it for them.

Matt gets into growing up with money without growing up entitled, the invisible safety net he didn't know he had until it was gone, and why bankruptcy doesn't break you. Staying down does.

Plus the one piece of advice he'd give every new parent. You'll have to listen for that one.

Timestamps:
0:00 – Intro
0:09 – Growing up entrepreneurial
2:02 – How Matt's parents kept him hungry without entitlement
6:55 – 30 years in business: how the game has changed every decade
10:48 – Raising kids across three very different eras
15:04 – Bankruptcy, resilience, and the safety net disappearing
18:31 – Setting kids up to win without softening them
25:42 – What schools don't teach, and should
34:23 – Is school even worth it anymore?
40:00 – Redefining success (and why finance has hijacked the word)
47:26 – The school of bankruptcy
49:58 – Born or made: can you teach someone to be an entrepreneur?
54:19 – Who's actually to blame for financial illiteracy?
58:51 – One piece of advice for every new parent

Follow Matt:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thematthaycox/ 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthaycox/
Website: https://matt-haycox.com/ 

Follow Dan:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-banks-nachmias/
Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3QU2rMK3JRLIQf8wRUT8il 

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Connect with Matt Haycox, No BS Business Podcast Host & 8-Figure Entrepreneur.

I’m Matt Haycox, entrepreneur, investor, and your straight-talking guide to building a business that actually works. I’ve raised over £750M, built (and rebuilt) 8-figure companies, and learned the hard way what it really takes to win.

On No Bollocks with Matt Haycox, I cut through the bollocks to bring you raw conversations with 7–8 figure founders, investors, and experts who’ve been there, done it, and got the scars to prove it. No hype, no theory, just actionable strategies you can use today to start, grow, and scale your business.

Whether you’re stuck in your 9–5, building your side hustle, or trying to hit your first £100k month, this is your go-to podcast for entrepreneur tips, startup growth strategies, raising capital, building a personal brand, and avoiding the costly mistakes most founders make.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

She've turned 18 and I got her a company set up in her name. I wanted to try and help her buy a property and do various things. Her mum went apoplectic with me. Absolutely apoplectic. Because she's saying her friends are 18, 18, they haven't got companies and they're not directors. Just let her be a child.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Hi Matt, welcome to Parenting Without the Manum. Great to have you there. Thank you very much. Come all the way from Bali to join us. Just for this, to be honest. Just for this, yeah. So I want to talk to you a bit of a few things. Where you started, because you obviously look, what we do here is we talk to entrepreneurial parents and we look at where what shaped you, your childhood beliefs of like you know, what drove you to get your success, and then how you pay that forward into modern-day parenting. So t tell us a little bit about you know your journey.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

So I mean, look, and I I uh as much as I don't look that old, uh I was a child of the 80s, and uh you know, growing up as a a wannabe entrepreneur in the 80s is very, very different to what it is in terms of the opportunities to grow up as an entrepreneur or wannabe entrepreneur in today's world. Um, I mean I I always wanted to be an entrepreneur from being a kid. I think it's funny, there's probably two sides because I I was always described as entrepreneurial, but I think it just means resourceful. I mean, it wasn't so much that I was trying to make money, I was probably just trying to find ways to get people to say yes to the things that they were they were saying no to. But I was very money hungry back then. Um, and it wasn't that I wanted to do business to make money, I just wanted to make money. Um, but in the late 80s, early 90s, you know, we lived in an era where whether or not it was true, the perception was very much that the only way to make money was to own your own business. Yeah. My old man owned his own business. He was a he was a successful entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Uh so you come from money then, do you? Do you go?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, I mean, listen, do I uh I can't, you know, claim to uh claim to have come from poverty and uh you know have a ragster riches tale. Um I I came from a good background. Um, you know, I mean my parents came from poverty, uh, but my you know, my dad built a successful business, he was you know f for first generation moneymaker. Um and I uh listen, I wanted for nothing as a kid, but I also didn't have what I everything I wanted at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Well I want to ask you though, because one of the things I'm concerned about now, and I think is is like how entitled our kids can be. So, how did your parents manage bringing you up and keeping that hungry, you know, it's keep still keeping you hungry, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I mean there was always a deal to be done for something, and and and just to be clear, and everyone has their own perception or or or their own view on you know what riches and and how much how much money is, and you know, and by anyone's standards, my background was was was well to do. You know, my dad owned his own business, you know, back in the in the 90s he'll have been a multi-six-figure earner, which is probably like being a seven-figure earner today. You know, we had a nice house, we had a holiday home in Spain, we went on lots of holidays. I wasn't flying on private jets, my parent, my parents weren't dripping in in Richard Meals and the kind of life of today. So so that that was the kind of level we're at. Um, so whilst let's say money was around, I wasn't like I was never let's say in a position to be able to be some spoilt kid where you know it's like we live in Dubai, I mean the bullshit we hear over here when you know I mean the parents almost encourage the spoiltness where it's like, oh my kids only eat caviar. Well, I'm sorry, you and your kids are a fucking dick then, aren't you? I mean, I mean um and I think the the behavior of the kid is come completely led, you know, led by the behavior of the parents. So I was never really able to be in that position because that quantity of money wasn't splashing around. But that said, my parents would, particularly my mother, would try and motivate me. Um when I say motivate me with money, look, I wanted money, they wanted something. We did an exchange of value. Now, whether that was as simple as tidying your bedroom for a fiver or getting A stars in your GCSEs for a thousand quid, what you know, whatever whatever it may be, they would always incentivise me. Yes, things were given to let's say things were available to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah, but so they taught you to earn it though, they they they they put this little barrier that you have to do something to earn it. Yeah, so they're not gonna just give it to you.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

And and you know, again, just to some people I say, Well, you came from a cushy life. Well, yeah, obviously I lived in a nice house and stuff, but what are my parents gonna do? They're not gonna make me live in the shed when when when they're living in a nice house. But for example, when I I wanted a nice watch, I was a 14-15-year-old kid, I wanted I wanted uh a tag uh tag or was back then. I don't know. I wanted that when it was about that age as well. Yeah, they wouldn't buy me it. I had to go to I you know I had to go and get a job for that. Um so so I guess very comfortable fundamentals and more were always provided, but the but the the trimmings on top I had to work for.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Um but but maybe also do you think that you were inspired to be an entrepreneur because your dad was an entrepreneur? I think it said this sort of foundation of what's possible.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

I think it's impossible to to not to say it wasn't that in some way. Um, I mean, you know, like I said, I it was I didn't love business as a kid, I just wanted to make money, therefore, business interested me. But uh I guess I just naturally had to have become an entrepreneur by osmosis because you know I was living in my with my dad in that environment. I mean, you know, 30 plus years on, you know, my dad and I are very different operators as far as business is concerned, you know. I mean, I mean, you know, completely it's a different beliefs, but very different attitudes, very different, very different interests, very different attitudes to risk. Um, but you know, I guess at its core, and entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, isn't it? You know, what what whatever route you go down?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Did he ever think about leave the bit leaving the business to you as he was, you know, as you were getting older and he, you know, bringing you into the business?

SPEAKER_02 5:58

So the business he had that was the one that he made all his money in, he sold when I was 17. Right, gotcha. So so there were there was never there was never an opportunity for that to happen for me. He then went on to invest in smaller businesses that he was trying to take passive states in. And my first business I worked in before I had my own business was was was one of his businesses. It was never a there was never going to be let's say this is a a family uh legacy for you to take over, but but but obviously opportunity was provided for me bit because he had it. It was a great, I mean it was a terrible business, it was a fucking disaster of a business. Um, but it was it was a great learning opportunity for me because I had all these different problems and and things to work with, but it was never where I wanted to spend my life. I mean, would it have been where I wanted to spend my life if it was a much much more successful business? I don't know, it's it's impossible to say. But I was I was 18 to 21 years old at this point. I was selling uniforms, career wear, you know, um polyester shirts or polycotton trousers, that that kind of stuff. I mean, it was not not really a sexy, glamorous business. And I was 21 and I I wanted to go and open bars and clubs because that sounded a lot more a lot more sexy and a lot more fun.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

And um, you know, what I mean it's interesting to have listened to you talk because I think back in those days, and I recall that as well, from what I remember, there was a lot more of that business where it wasn't sexy, it wasn't enjoyable, it just was business. Whereas I think today we're in a different world where people are making fortunes doing something that is sexy and enjoyable and living their passions, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

I think well, I mean, but there's just massive differences to the world today. And I was I was just thinking about this a little bit before before I was I was coming here today, just because you know, I don't know what kind of stuff we'd be talking about, but I you know I always think about business and my past uh as we go on. I'm 45, I've been properly in business since I was 18, I've been selling in markets and being entrepreneurial, etc., since I was probably 13 or 14. So let's say I've been in business in some way, shape, or form for about 30 years. And the way I kind of look at it is I would almost say there's been a generational change in business in once every 10 years and in the in the life I've lived in. And you know, the the opportunities available to people. So so if if I try and put that into some kind of let's say real life context, so let's say decade number one from just calling it from being 15 to 25. That was that was pre-anything. I mean, I mean, literally pre-anything, no social media was just starting to use email, yeah. Um, you know, so so because I mean ultimately success in business really comes from distribution. You know, if if you've got if you've got distribution, obviously you've got a good product, but you can have a shit product and great distribution and and and and and you can make money. So and I think ultimately, as time's gone on, the ability to distribute, the ability to hit a larger market has A become bigger or bigger, quicker, quicker, and easier. So, you know, if you look at that for my first 10 years of business, then you look, let's look at my next 10 years, and and I was relatively successful from 24 to 28. I was relatively successful. Obviously, you know, we knew each other a bit back in the day, had multiple clubs, um, uh, you know, different businesses, but I did that before, let's say two or three things, before social media, before real use of the internet, yes, the internet was there, but before real use of the internet, certainly before social media, before crowdfunding, before the concept of alternative lending as we have it today exists. You know, I always look back and you know, I say, if I had those businesses I had, but I could inject those four ingredients, I would have been a billionaire back then. No, I mean that this is not bullshit internet tour. I'm a billionaire. I mean, no qu no question about it. I was 27, 28 years old, and I made let's say I'm picking a number, let's probably worth about 10 million quid at my peak before everything went. But that was 10 million quid 20 years ago with none of the tools that allow mass, mass, mass distribution. Even if I wouldn't be a billionaire, I guarantee I'd be making 100 million plus by by being you know by being able to have have have those things. I mean, I mean, you imagine like nightclubs, strip clubs, those kind of things, but pumped up with social media, you know. Actually, I was always quite good at raising capital in a world thing as this, but I could raise 10x that 20x now. You know, I I had 11 clubs at my peak, that could have been 111 clubs.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

You could open franchise done, all sorts of different things, you know, the opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

And so that was let's say decade two. Now, if you look at decade three, three, I mean now, and never mind decade three, look at the last year of the last decade, what AI has is is is doing to this. You know, never mind the distribute five years ago we had the ability to distribute at scale, but we still needed people and infrastructure and everything else. Now we don't need people, the infrastructure is is there and given to given for us. Um, and you know, it it really is possible to not only distribute at mass scale, but to create at mass scale with minimal input.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

You know, so so I'm I was thinking about some stuff I want to ask you, right? Because you've just gone through some really good stuff, and this is like a when I talk to parents, I'm talking to entrepreneur, entrepreneurial parents and talking about conscious parenting, right? Now, obviously, that you're going through the part of the entrepreneur that you are, but I've never contextualized, I've had similar but different journey, like I've gone through different stages, different businesses of those different decades of my life. I've not contextualised like you have, which is really interesting for me. But um, you've got three kids, all different, very different age groups. So well, I might have a third one by the time because I didn't as often have no, yeah, not two, but two or one underwear, that's what we're talking about. So again, different age groups, different areas. So I want to come back to that, but even before then, you've you've explained a lot about your journey. What where did school play a part in that? And then what are the lessons you learned that have developed you?

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So wildly different answers for both me and my kid and my eldest and my youngest. So so I was a school kid of the 80s and 90s, and that was in an era when the perception, and probably the reality was that if you didn't go to school, if you didn't go to further education, you were you were a failure. Yeah, you weren't getting and and it was kind of reality as well, because if you because if you didn't have higher education, you weren't getting a good job. Yeah, you were okay, we can say, Well, I want to be an entrepreneur, but again, wanting to be an entrepreneur in the 90s was not as, let's say, popular, smiled upon, and as easy, easy as it is in today's world. So the reality was most people, you know, the the ones who were going to be entrepreneurs were the real exceptions, you know, the real exceptions. So if you wanted a corporate job or wanted a good job, you had to go to school. If you obviously, if you wanted a profession like a doctor or a dentist or a lawyer or whatever, of course, of course you had to go to school. If you went to private education and then didn't follow that up, I mean that was like the ultimate sin that you know your parents have spent all this money putting you through private education and you're going to fail them by not continuing that. It's like, what did we bother paying for your education for if you're not going to go and see it on? So I came from that era, but I also rebelled against it because I was desperate to leave school. Not because of, let's say, the modern-day attitude of oh, school's shit and it doesn't do anything for you, and you know, I just want to be out making money, or rather, I don't need school to make money. My attitude was just simply, I know I want to be an entrepreneur, I am gagging to make money. So every extra year I spend at school or higher education is going to be another year that's that's that's slowing down my ability to compound as an entrepreneur. So that's why I wanted out of it. My mum, she again she was from a background where she had nothing, uh, she loved education for herself, she lost the opportunity to be educated properly because she liked she had pneumonia or something. So she almost wanted to be educated vicariously through me, and also wanted the best for me, which their belief was education. My dad sat somewhere between the two of us, um, but also did think uh I should be getting education. So that's that's what I'd lived through.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I then but what before you go to to to to you to your kids and stuff, what I want to ask you though is But I lost I I quit.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

I did quit. So I I did school to 18. I was gonna take a gap year because I thought I'll try to make some money in the gap year. Then I thought, well, I can't I can't really rush it in a year. So I I I went to university, convinced my mum to let me kind of work whilst being at university. After six weeks of being at uni, there was no way I could concentrate on the two things. Um, so I said to my mum, uh, you've got to let me leave. I want to go to work, and if everything fails during this next year, well then I'll go back to uni then. And it's just like I've had a gap year, like the rest of my friends, so so no biddy. Um and she said, Okay, you can go, and if you're not successful by the end of the year, uh then you've got to go back to you've got to go back to uni. And I always say, Here I am 25 years later, praying that uh I don't have to join as a mature student in September. Um a few close calls.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, that's been a few close calls, but um again, this grit resilience, all the ups, all the downs, the the you being willing to shift your perspective and everything as things in school helped you out? Was it experiences of school with people? Is there incidences, or is it something you've learned somewhere else? And like what do you think of the key ingredients before we go into like where your kids are at now?

SPEAKER_02 15:45

I mean, look, I think I think ultimately you're a product of everything, aren't you? Yeah, um, and it's interesting because you know, obviously, when I was younger, starting my businesses at 18, 9, 20, whatever. I mean, my father was very wealthy back then. I mean, he'd been okay till he sold the business, and when he sold the business, he he he got good money. So, whilst I very much wanted to go make my own money, uh, and he certainly didn't write me checks to set my businesses up or anything like that. I think I'd be lying if I didn't probably internally have some kind of safety net that it was like, Oh, my dad's got a few quids, so I'm never gonna be homeless. I mean, yeah, I I never thought like that actively, but consciously, but subconsciously, it must have been inside me. But then my dad got on to a basically a systematic set of failures, and by the time I was about 22, he was almost bankrupt. Oh wow, which you know was it's another story in itself, it's something he's never really you know recovered from. He's not bankrupt, but he's he's he's he's 90 wealthy. He's 95% down and where he was 20 years ago, and he's and he's lost it, lost the motivation to go in. So by the time I was really starting to need money and want to take risks and stuff, I didn't have that, I didn't have that safety net at all. And then when I had my first massive failure and went bankrupt when I was 27, 28. Um, I guess I all all I had going for me was the fact that I wasn't prepared to stay down. You know, I'm not necessarily even saying I had the skills, I thought I knew I had the skills to get back up again, but I thought I'm 27, I've got a wife, I've got a one-year-old kid. You know, I always say I was never born to be poor. So I had no choice but to to to find find ways. And and and you know, whenever people talk to me about the bankruptcy, and they say, Wow, you know, how did you pick yourself up? It's such a hard time, I was like, I haven't got a great story for you. My answer answer was simply I didn't say I had a choice. I've got a mortgage that needs paying, a kid that needs looking after, so I've got to go and do whatever it takes to get it to get it done. But then as time's gone on, obviously every day I learn more skills. Every time I have a problem, I find a solution. So at 45 years old now, I have an attitude to risk which is considerably more than most, but I would say that's because I know I've got the skills to pick back to pick back up again. Uh, if not, you know, if if I because I'm ultimately when it comes to building a business, it comes to an idea, an offer, an ability to market, you know, an ability to deliver these or a network to be you know to be able to raise some camera from whatever it may be. And I've got all of those things anyway. Yes, it would be easier with a few million quid in the bank, but I can also do it without any of that as well. So that's I guess that's what that's what gives me my confidence in the same way that I don't know, if I was a a famous, if I was Elton John and I lost everything tomorrow, well, I could go on stage that night, tinker around on the piano, and someone's gonna pay me a 250 grand check. So I guess it it gives you it gives you a level of col a level of confidence and uh and risk tolerance.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

So so knowing all of that, and I think that whether you see it as well as as from the inside, but I definitely see it from the outside, that uh your dad didn't it might it might have given you a bit of a safety net, like you say subconsciously, but it hadn't flourished you with money and you did have to go and earn it, and that was something we talk to you. How do you now, and I know you you've done stuff in business with your with your eldest, um how do how does now how do you set your your kids up to to to win and to be prepared and you know with everything you've now got because you're someone who's learned from experience a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

So, my my eldest, she's 19 now. Uh I mean I put it at the time I had her, I probably anticipated she'd be my only child, uh child then. I never imagined I'd come to Dubai, start chasing young girls and forget that I didn't have the snip. But uh but I so so so she was um what it is, my my pride and joy, yeah. Um but I thought that um I was never with her I wasn't with her mum, but I always had a good relationship with her mum. But her mum and I are very different, yeah. And I always wanted to push entrepreneurialism and business, etc., on her. Her mum never wanted to because her mum was it's not so much that her mum's the educator, she's not in that respect, but her mum is her mum worries what other people think. Gotcha. So many decisions that were made.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

She wants to sort of conform to society and yeah, or the other mums. Now, to be clear you're complete opposites, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Well, and I don't say any of this that's say as a as a dis disrespect on her, she was an amazing, was and is an amazing mum, and uh, you know, I I've got m so much time for her. But we would pull in different directions because, for example, I'd be saying, we talk about I used to get money for doing things, so I I'd say to my 12-year-old, all right, read this business book, and I'll and I'll give you 50 quid or whatever it may be. And she she's got no interest in reading it, and then I I'd be saying to her mum, she read these books, and the answer would end up being, well, she doesn't like them. I've got of course she doesn't like them because she's 12. Yeah, well, so where where are we gonna go with here? Or I'd be saying, right, you know, we she've turned 18 and I got her a company set up in her name. I wanted to try and help her buy a property and do various things. Her mum went apoplectic with me, absolutely apoplectic, because she's saying, you know, her friends are 18 18 and they haven't got companies and they're not directors, just let her be a child. And I can try and get into the ins and outs of saying, hang on a minute, this is going to take 45 minutes a month of her time to have a property and and to to build some financial security, etc. But I'm banging my head against a brick wall because again, the nicest possible way to her mum, her mum doesn't have this knowledge or her mum doesn't have these skills, therefore, she doesn't understand, understand what I'm trying to do to her. And I ended up when I say gave up, um, I don't mean given a bad way, but you know, my daughter, she's on a massive education path, she's done phenomenal at school, you know, pretty much all A star. Across the board at A level at GCSEs, A's across the board at A levels. She's now doing aerospace engineering at Durham University. She's doing very, very well. That's the she doesn't want business. She absolutely doesn't want business. So when you ask what do I do with her and how do I spoil her or not spoil her or whatever now, I don't try and push any business on her because she's got no interest. We're talking business, but what about like resilience and grid and what but what I do try and educate is is is financial uh is financial literacy. Yes. Because you know, and and that I do push hard on. Like when I used to push on business and I get the push back to me, I gave up. But now I will always try, I always push very hard on financial literacy and and investment in education because I say to her, Listen, I'm not trying to change the career path you're on. You want to be an engineer, happy days, but you don't want to be a skint engineer. And and and the the things I'm trying to show you, the things I'm trying to tell you are going to take none of your time, by the way, and you're gonna wake up at 40 years old just by boring simple things by putting this 250 quid a month away that becomes 500 quid a month that goes in a tracker fund or that gets an 8% instead of a 6%. These very boring things that 99% of the world don't understand will mean that when you're 40 years old, for example, you might have a couple of million quid in your bank for doing nothing, by the way, but you know, for doing literally nothing, and you can still be your engineer. But imagine being an engineer with a couple of million quid in the bank. So when you don't fancy being an engineer, you can take a year off, or when you want to invest in something, or or or or whatever it may be. So that side of things I do, I do do push hard on. You know, my three-year-old, she's three, so we haven't we haven't we haven't got that far now, but her mum is very well depends what kind of a mood she's in with me, but when she's not at war with me, her mum is very much of the attitude that I will defer to Matt's better judgment for education and finances. And I say I we have always agreed that we'll homeschool her, right? And not because I have some pathological hatred of the of the of the school system, yeah, but I just know that the things I want to take her on. And when you say what's your curriculum gonna be, as I write now, I can't tell you exactly what the curriculum is going to be, but I know that the things that are important to me are multiple languages, yeah, financial literacy, things that might not even look like education. But if she had a brain, a nice network, spoke three languages, and could play the piano, the violin, and the guitar. I'd but I'd be much happier with that, by the way, than it than if she could recite geography backwards or something like that. So so I want to kind of go go down that route with her. And then when it comes to spoiling them, it's always a fine line because I want to I want to do the best, I do want to do the best for them, and you know, I'm sure I'll give them more, I'll give them what other people consider spoiling them. But actually, I think to me, spoiling isn't an amount of money, spoiling is is the attitude that somebody has, and you could give someone a hundred quid and they could be a total spoiled twatter, or you could give someone a million quid and they could be the most humble, respectful person in the world. And I'm very you know, I'm very fortunate. I mean, I've done things like with my eldest night. If you look back, she had so much opportunity to be a spoiled brat, she'd have a 20 grand birthday party at seven years old and and and those kind of things. But I kind of hit it with hit it with both angles if you like. I would never, you know, I'd never tolerate rudeness or disrespect or misbehaviour. You know, even now, if you know, with again the three-year-old, if if no matter how much I hate her mom or we're at war with a mum, I will never tolerate the you know disrespect from from from the baby, that from the baby to the mum and things. So I think ultimately, you know, it's like when you say alcohol alcohol makes them a bad person. No, it doesn't. Alcohol just shows what a bad person, that person they already are. And it's it's the same with money, you know, you can write someone, write someone a blank check, but through a good person, they'll just be a good person with a yeah with it with a blank check.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I think when you're saying that, you know, you don't hold it against like the schooling system where you don't have a hatred for the schooling system, but what you are highlighting is the skills that you want them to have that are important, whether it's playing the piano, whether it's speak is speaking the languages, is not what's being necessarily taught at school. And you're what you're saying is you, and especially financial literacy is obviously a big one. You haven't touched so much on emotional intelligence, which I think is also another big one. I think that when you even talk about how you are, and again, I'm seeing patterns in you, by the way, because you've gone through ups and downs, you've been able to regulate and recover. That's a big emotional strength that you've got. And so where you see things now, and I I think as well as for all of us that are entrepreneurs that we've gone through, when you're willing to pick yourself up, you you sort of battle harden, you know, and you just become a lot calmer in every situation, everything's like you know, but and it and it's it's hard, is it bad?

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Because as as parents, you know, we don't want our kids to go through any hard times, you know. We we want them to have the best of everything. I mean, I again unless you unless it's uh a social a social media person today that's I'm gonna make my kids eat shit because uh yeah, but we don't really want that, right? You know, but but it's how how how do you strike that balance? I tell you, I mean, uh literally this afternoon the the the the babies in in Bali and the and the nanny sent me a video and she's playing there with a little best mate, they're both like literally just just a few weeks younger than three years old. And my daughter has gone and put the her best mate, the on and off best mate. She goes and pushes this other kid, and this other kid turns around and she literally's a lot bigger than now, she clocks her and she gets her, and she you know, she she she's sat in the head uh sat in a headlock, and I I can hear my daughter like you know crying and screaming. And you know, the one you know, let's ignore the funniness of it. The one side of it is if I was there, I'd want to be going running in and interrupting and saying, you know, get off her, come away. Yeah, yeah. But then the other side of it's be saying, as soon as I get back to Bali, I'm gonna I'm gonna show you how to throw a couple of punches. Yeah, yeah. Because ultimately, as much as you don't want to have the bad things, they can't improve, you know, they can never improve. And you know, listen, I can sit in now and say, I wouldn't have had my life any other way. You know, the knowledge I've got now, the skills I've got now have come from the hard times. Would I really have had it another way? Well, I'm sure I probably would have rather had it another way.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

But but but it is what shapes you, you know, like like those bad things do shape you. Listen, I used to say to my, and obviously I'm divorced as well, and uh I've gone through similar things, then I've I'm as much at war, but we we've like, you know, I couldn't homeschool and I've all wanted to, because like what you had with your first the mother of your first child. I wouldn't say we have different views. She's probably more my ex-wife definitely looks at me as the business person, as the the guiding star of or like, you know, uh educational decisions. But again, it's one thing saying it if we're in different countries or whatever or different places, she's got the one that's got to affect it essentially, right? And then that's where the challenge comes. But I always just say, look, I kind of want my son to fall. I don't want to take shit, but I want him to fall over and be able to pick himself back up because I'm not always going to be there to pick him up, yeah. And he needs to develop that muscle. I can't go to the gym for him. Do you get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

It's fine in the middle of the ground, isn't it? And I guess if we talk about it, let's say in physical danger, let's say, you know, this is something where my three-year-old's mum and I do disagree on. I'm I'm not paranoid, but I sort of don't want it to get hurt. If if she's in if she's a bit older than that, so it's not an issue. But a year ago, if she's in this room and she's swinging on this table or climbing on something or climbing on these chairs, I'm not running behind her sweating, but I've always I'm always wanting to look because I always want to know you know know what goes on and be able to help her if she if she if something falls. And she's with her mom, she'll be walking along ceilings, and her mum will be in the room, what are you doing? And she goes, she needs to learn when you know, you know, when she falls, she'll learn not to do it again. Yeah, and my argument, the argument I'd always have she falls and dies. No, exactly. That's the argument I'd always have with her. I'd say, listen, there's falling from a foot high onto a sponge floor, yeah. There's falling from a meter high onto a concrete floor. Yeah, these are two materially different things. And and and I guess it's that you know, how do you, you know, how how do you let them find, how do you let them fall? How do you let them get cut but not an artery bleeding? How do you let them get a slap but not a punch?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

You know, you know, I I don't know what you went through as as a kid, but for me, I used to climb trees and I had I fell from height and fractured my skull, and I've could have died a number of different times, and I'm still here today. I mean, who knows? But but then and the flip side is sometimes kids fall and do die, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

It's like you know and sometimes you can I mean look, you can drown in a centimetre of water and you can flourish in a mile of sea. I mean I mean I mean, but I also don't think you can use uh you you can't use freak examples, you know, to to to to to combat common sense, but but look, there's there's no there's no good answer or or or or right answer, and and it's it's about it's a balance, it's a it's a tightrope, isn't it? You know, everything is a you know is a a matter of choices. You you've got two girls.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Is the third one, do you know, is a girl? So yeah, play yeah. Yeah. I I wonder how you'd be with it with a boy if you had a boy instead of a girl. Do you do you do you do you think you're different as a as a father now, like with with um with daughters versus how you'd be as if you had a son?

SPEAKER_02 31:14

I mean, look, it's very hard for me to say because I'm not there. And it's funny, before I'd had any kids, I was I always wanted a son and a daughter. I wanted the the son first and the daughter say it, yeah. To the point that when my daughter was born, I we didn't know the sex of my daughter until until she was born. So I convinced myself the entire I mean the only clothes I'd bought were male clothes, yeah. Utterly convinced myself. And when she came, I was so convinced that when she came out and I saw the umbilical cord, I thought it was a penis. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I went she was a boy. And then when they cut it, I'm like, no, no, no, what are you doing? We're not Jewish. But um but literally, I always say to my daughter, I can't even talk to you for the first two days. You let me down so much by being a girl. Oh my god, you know, but but but then I do really but but then when I'd gotten used to being a girl, now I can't imagine having having a boy. Like people are saying to me, Oh my god, your third kid's a girl, you know, you know, do you not want a boy? Are you gonna try for a fourth? I'm saying no, I'm I'm really happy with the girls. Um maybe that's I don't I don't know why. Maybe it's because uh you know I'm I'm trying to make sure that um because I've been a bad guy with girls for all my life that uh that they uh don't have to fall foul of the stuff I'm up to. I I don't know what it is, but uh I I'm I'm much more into a a cuddle with the girl than a rough and tumble with the boy.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

You know, I I don't know. I I wanted a boy. Um I don't know if I could imagine myself having a daughter. I think he's gonna probably I'm saying that he's gonna be my only child. I'm older than you anyway. I'm 48 this year. Um, I don't see myself having another child, I don't think. Yeah, you never know what could happen, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:55

But but that's what I said 15 years ago. You got me thinking, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

But um, but you know, I I just I was a rascal when I was a when I was a kid, and I just connect more that I want to teach him how to fight and do stuff and all of those things that we we talk about, you know, look after him. I find it a lot easier. I find myself like I think I would go mad if I had a daughter just being very protective, you know. That's what I visit. Again, I suppose you adapt to the situation, you know, as you grow up through the years and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I mean, I like I say as well, I've been very lucky with my eldest, and uh yeah, I've got to give her mom the bulk of the credit for this because you know she lived with her for more during those older years. I mean, when you when you see the young kids of today, these 14-year-olds that look like look and behave like 25-year-olds, yeah, with the with the makeup and the boys and the and the you know the overall energy. I'll say inappropriate conversation. It's funny because I thought you know uh what's good for me on one hand is not good for the somewhere else on another. But I'd be utterly mortified if that was if that was my child. Now, and again, it's ultimately comes, I guess, down to the parents and what the parents allow them to see and behave, and you know what they what they don't punish them for. Uh, and I'm very lucky in the fact that my daughter, my oldest daughter's mum, was you know, was not a promiscuous person or wasn't you know, was not someone who wore mini skirts and makeup and all that kind of thing. Um, so I've not had to suffer um a teenage daughter that I'm tearing my hair out with, you know, bringing her boys and and and doing all this kind of stuff. I know I'm gonna have my work cut out with the second one. Uh but uh all I can do is uh is make sure I'm as present as possible.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, interestingly, right? You were talking about when you set your eldest one up in business. Um, oh this this situation in the way has got me reflecting. Um, and I'm probably going to more than likely pull my son out of school by September. He's nine years old. And my thinking is what this has done for me, I kind of wanted to homeschool previously. I got caught into the trap of culture and um like uh what's up like society, you know, just put them in the best school that you can and all of this kind of stuff and tick those boxes and social socializing stuff. But paying all the money that we pay and then having such a poor service that we've had with this remote school, I mean that you've probably not it's not really experienced because I'm personally experienced it, but I I've spot I've got friends who friends who are doing it, and uh, you know, I mean I it's not easy for anyone, is it?

SPEAKER_02 35:28

I mean, I mean it's probably no easier for the teachers having to deliver. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

That I feel I feel for the schools because they weren't set up for this, but I do feel that for the amount of money that we pay, they should pivot and adapt faster. And it's not really rocket science to go back home and then put put the thing on. What's actually happened is all the parents flew back to the UK and you know, and it just it it's it's it's not really been organised. They just, you know, it's been a bit of a shambles and disappointing. But what I started questioning was is if I took that money that I'm paying on schooling, which there's a value to it, but I don't think there's enough of a uh you know, like return on capital with right, yeah. If I just really what I want my kid to learn is health, is having a good mindset, have being healthy, being so being able to socialize, like you say, build building his network, doing stuff, also being willing to take risks and fail, I'd rather set him up and we're talking about like you say, this third decade of now AI, like I think they're still learning stuff that's so antiquated that if you know like what what are they learning that's antiquated, like you say, like geography, history, like it's not really changed since you and I were at school. How much, how much like okay, perfect example. If you said to me today, what bet what are the best curricula? So you spoke about I think um lawyers and doctors and stuff like that. So growing up, I wanted to make money. My dad told me be an accountant, lawyer, or a doctor, and that's so that meant studying, and actually, my whole path was go to university, then and then qualify as a lawyer. I ended up falling out, going into nightclubs. I graduated university, and then instead of doing that three years of law or accounting, I went into nightclubs and I became an entrepreneur and actually I made a lot more money doing a lot less work and actually having a lot more fun, right? But I think today, if you said to me, What's the best career that I think a child could have, I think one of them would definitely have to be being a YouTuber. I think another one would definitely even whatever business, if you want to be a flipping tire changer or mechanic, you have to become a marketer.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Right?

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Or you want to be a dentist, yeah, but you have to be a dentist that knows how to do social media, like so those two key skills I think should be like massively taught skills right now, and the third one being AI. They're not they're teaching coding now. Coding is already redundant. Do you get like again? And they're not even teaching coding in a curriculum, they're teaching it as an external course that you pay for. So on top of the big expenses, right? So these are things now. I think we're in an attention economy. I think kids today at my son's age, nine, ten years old, should be studying how to control attention, like how to get attention, you know, like for whatever you're gonna do. I think it should be done how to build networks. They I think networking should be a thing. I was on a I had a guy on my podcast recently who was saying actually everything they teach you in school, because I had to unlearn myself. Because today we pay mentors so we can learn the fastest way. Well, if you were at school and you're gonna learn from the kids to do it better, that's considered copying or or that you're you're sort of you know reprimanded for that.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

I think I think there's a balance is the wrong word, but common ground or like a compromise. I I think what it is because listen, uh on the one hand, I'm absolutely for all these things, but I also think you can only be you can only be good at being fast on something when you've got let's say under underlying skill sets. Now, let's say you use code, maybe maybe coding's not the right example because uh I mean that there's a there's a lot to learn there, and and you can vibe code very well very well without it. But let's just say, for example, you can write a book on chat GPT, but and I obviously I'm thinking about this because it's something I'm doing. I I in the last week or so I've just written two books. Well chat GPT's written two books. But the but this is where let's say I would because I know the the the uh what's the word the uh the content of me on because I know the content of these two books, particularly one of them, better than I would argue 99% of the world do, I've used Chat GPT to speed me along. Yes, I've used Chat GPT to help me write structure to help me find gaps. Yes. It's chat GPT also taught me a lot of stuff that I'm saying. That's absolute rubbish. Yes, you need to remove that, you need to remove that. How can we do it better? Now, so I've done a year's work, let's say, in a weekend, but I've only ultimately but but the finished product is only as good as it is because of what you know because of the knowledge that I've got. Okay, that and that's that's that and when we talk about geography and history and things, do I think we should learn it? Look, I I think we also have to consider that everybody is different people in the world, and yes, and you know, some some if you love geography, I can maybe it's going to be useless for you. But if you're happy to earn 50 grand a year and do do geography or be an explorer or read a map, I don't know, then then then then that's entirely up to you. Do I think someone should have 15-20% of their school life spent on geography? No, I don't. Do I think it's important to know where the various people are?

SPEAKER_01 40:16

I'll tell you something else as well. Here's another thing, right? And you say it all the time as well, and this is you, right? You've got you run your own podcast, you you're a networker, your network is your net worth, all this kind of stuff, right? These kids are taught nearly don't not say don't socialise is wrong, but like, you know, sit down, be quiet, don't move, don't leave you see. That whole you've got to understand at this age, that's shaping what they believe is right and wrong. Just the the thing of everything they're doing, if they're playing and they've got this natural I agree, not it it like not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur, right? Let's agree, there's gonna be a percentage that are just gonna get a safe job and and go down that route. But if they're taught talking to this person, no, no, no, no. What they're hearing as a kid is like like these blockades of okay, that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, like this, and that's not gonna serve them in a modern world.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

And I I think if we use the word if the if we consider the word entrepreneur and almost like take the business side of entrepreneur out and just say you're an entrepreneur is a is a a thinker, a problem solver, an achiever of this, I think everyone can be entrepreneurial. Yes, should everyone be a business owner? And because I think that that is something that we do do because we love business, we say you've got to have your own business, you've got to have your own business. No, 90% of people shouldn't have their own business because it because it'd be terrible. However, the kind of skills and things you've been talking about, they're applicable to anything. So when we talk about marketing, it's great to be a it's good to be a great marketer. Yeah, if you're gonna own your own business, you absolutely should. If you're gonna be the geography teacher, you should still be able to know how to market because you could communicate with the kids better. 100%. So, you know, socializing, health, fitness. I think there's so many skills that I'm totally with you on the fact that there's so many skills that we don't learn that we should learn. I'm pretty just not there when people go, you know, the bet you've got to have a business, you've got to have a business. No, you you you've got to have what you want to have and make as much money as you can make whilst retaining the happiness that you know that you want to have. Because again, the the thing I will always talk about now is that you know what does success like? And I think that the word success is far too attached to finance. Well, I'd agree with that. And and I'll say for me, success is happiness. I agree. If you are living a happy life, you're successful. And I think if you've set out, if you've achieved what you set out to achieve, that is success. And the example I always give is if you if you're a young girl and you say, My absolute dream in life is to be the world's best wife and the world's best mum. And you see that girl when she's 40 years old and she's got three kids who are lovely kids who have gone well through school, and she's been a housewife for 20 years, giving her husband everything she needs so that he can give her and the family everything they need, and she's flat broke and the husband ain't got much money. Yeah, are they successful? I'd say she's a bit royal in success because she's done everything she set out to do. Yeah. In the same way that if someone set out to be a billionaire and he makes 10 million, I'd say it's probably pretty unsuccessful, to be honest, yeah. Because he's not achieved what he wants to achieve. And then if someone says I want to go and make a hundred million and they're going to make 110, are they successful? Well, they're successful by the metrics of what they set out to do. But if they've got a failed marriage, kids who hate them, the fat, and all the other shit that goes with it, well, listen, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that for all that for all the money.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

You know, I mean I did a lot with Tony Robbins, and he talks about happiness is if life conditions equal is equal to or greater than blueprint.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah, yeah, as in as in like outcome is in excess of expectations. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Yeah, yeah, your model of the world. And if your life conditions don't equal your blueprint, i.e., your blueprint is what you think the world should be, you know, what you're you're you know, then then then you're not successful right. But uh but come back to what I was doing, like with my son, I think. Look, he's opted to be, I think, an entrepreneur at this point. I mean, I'm happy for him to be a football, he can do whatever he wants to be. But when I look at a YouTuber, I don't consider necessarily. necessarily a YouTube entrepreneur by the way. I see a YouTuber taking a passion or an idea where they're actually living a fun life and just being able to monetize it. And that's I think and I I think today that would be a great career for the average 18 year old to to 25 year old. With AI now God knows where it's going to be in 10 years' time and what the right path is going to be then I don't my point is we need to be thinking that I think in schooling and in educating our kids whatever it is what is what does the world look like in 10 years and how are we preparing for them today helping them prepare for it today you know for then but um and I just I just figured that with all the money that I'm spending on private school if I put that into his businesses and he like like what you said about your daughter at the beginning and he and he failed and he failed and he failed which I'd be more than happy for him to do that's the learning that's the development and I think when you and I discuss okay we are entrepreneurial but we look at who we are today and are probably both very proud of ourselves to be when we look at the man in the mirror right it's those experiences and the overcoming and the the successes and the and the failure and all of that we've gone through that's we can go I'm really proud about that and I think that that's I think he's opting for that anyway I'm definitely not pushing it on him.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I think he's seen daddy do it and that that's where he sort of like again he was at the launch yesterday and he was incredibly proud and wanted to get on the mic and wanted to be around and see it and that we came back last night and he was like Daddy can have a Nalisian minds bag because we we gave all his goodie bags away and I haven't given him one because just he's got everything right but he just wanted to have the bag you know just it gave him a new level of pride and everything for it you know right my team we we're coming towards the end so my my team have prepared some questions but oh I don't know I don't know how how much dirt they've done okay so look you you didn't you haven't touched on it majorly uh today but I know you obviously you've had a number of big successes and you've gone through bankruptcy and then come back up and come so is bankruptcy actually the best business school in the world or or is that just something people say to make themselves feel better take your time is it the best but listen the things it's like what we were saying earlier when we say about you know learning from the scars I mean there isn't much of a bigger I mean I guess bankruptcy is is akin to death in a way you know and and uh you know what what you learn about yourself when you're looking down that alleged tunnel of light is is probably more than you can learn at any other time. Do you really want to go there? Like listen I I I I am a pro I today I am a product of what I've had for the last 25 years which has been all the downs as well as well as all the ups so I can't I can't change that and you know I guess I um I've benefited from those scars would I suggest that someone else goes through it absolutely not and I guess obviously I now try and make a career out of helping people not make the same mistakes I've made by get let's say imparting the knowledge that I've had but the problem in so many situations is we don't like to listen to other people um you know there's it's a very small minority who who listen to mentors who can allow other people to make decisions for them in times of absolute crisis and the problem is in these kind of bankruptcy situations you don't know the answer because you've never been there before and you'll probably never never be there again so do I think it's something to people tell themselves to feel better?

SPEAKER_01 47:35

No I think it's a I think it is a phenomenal phenomenal school you know the school of bankruptcy but is it a school that most people would rather avoid I I think it is yeah you know and there's many many many nearly most successful people have gone through bankruptcy and recovered and built again you know so I think there's a lot there uh can you teach someone to be a great entrepreneur or is it something you're born with I think you can teach them the skills of being a great entrepreneur you know we touched on things you know like like marketing and communication and sales and you know because these are skills that are applicable to many different areas of life not just business.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

I think you can teach people the skills but to really be an entrepreneur I think you know you've got to have creativity you've got to have appetite for risks you've got to have a a desire to change the world uh you know certainly to change your own little world those things are probably a bit more uh a bit more what you're you know what you're born with or maybe a maybe if not what you're born with are a product of the circumstances that you've grown up in but I I don't really think you can go to school and um and and get grit if that I mean I mean yes you can maybe teach people when you're teaching a kid how can you get grit and how can you do these things but but I think I think like the real best entrepreneurs out there it's probably something something magic with it in the same way if we if we give it a sporting analogy you know can whatever sport football you know can can can anyone be taught to play football yeah anyone can be taught to play football but but the beckhams and stuff of this world they're just they're just born with some some magic that that that nobody else can have you know we can all learn to kick a ball with our left leg and our right leg and you know whatever it may be but there's always going to be some people who are better than others and there's always going to be some people who just don't need a school because there's just something magic inbuilt in them. I think that um you know what I think some level of success sometimes is um like in um in connection to risk you're willing to take I think if you're willing to take a bigger risk it doesn't always mean a bigger reward but it definitely means you can go where people haven't been and you can do things you know and I think that sometimes the the hardest times you've faced help you like I think my my um my level of risk like aversion now I I I'm I'm really I could I'm I'm not risk averse as well I could do like anything and I'm pretty sure you're you feel the same right I think that's because when you've been so low when you rebuild back up you just back yourself you just like it hasn't killed me and you know if I die I die and whatever's gonna happen right but I think that um yeah like going through that sometimes when people are faced looking down that that that dark hole there some people break and some people break through basically and I think that if you if you break through you then back yourself every single time pretty much you know and it takes you to another level um are we raising a generation of financially financially illiterate adults and are the parents to blame or the system I I mean I don't think it's this generation I just I think it's all generations you know we we uh because you know the things we were talking about earlier you know the things that you wanted to correct you know with with uh you know with your education platform you know financial literacy has never been something that's taught I mean listen I'm I'm not a conspiracy theorist you know I don't I don't subscribe to the things that you know we've purposefully not taught it because we want to have this you know that this this world of sheep and stuff I mean I just think we just we just don't teach it you know and why do you think they haven't taught it though come in like it it must be why do I think they haven't taught it I while you're thinking about it let me say this to you right that for me there's two failed systems out there massively failing right education and the medical and and I know you've become a lot more health conscious so you're now aware over the last like sort of five to five odd years I would say you've become five ten years yeah you've become a lot more health conscious and um I would say that both systems massively fail we we know that the medical industry is pushed by these drug companies that you know they're not there to cure the problem so actually there is a lot of holistic health things that you now do and other people do that are just are great for you right and which no one's really taught us but even the medical industry is is more as advanced more than the educational system. It's not people don't know it's not teachers don't understand you know that the so I guess so the medical sector probably fails I'd say for two things which would be one misaligned incentives yeah uh and two appetite for risk and so obviously we know the misaligned incentives are that it's you know cheaper to to um give someone medicine for a problem than it is to cure sorry not cheaper it's more profitable for a drug company to give someone medicine for a problem than it is to cure that problem. Yeah uh and then I think there's uh you know probably a risk appetite or lack of risk appetite that I mean you talk simple things like for example you know I've been on testosterone replacement you know for four years five years if life's got you in all the trouble exactly but if I to if I go and talk about that to people in England I mean I'm telling you 99% of doctors yeah are anywhere between completely against it yeah and don't understand it. Yes and why I just I think you know we're we're in a world where they get sued for everything uh that you know they they they don't want to take they don't want to take any kind of risk whatsoever uh you know that they only want to prescribe the things that they've been given or or or taught about and again we can say well they the prescribe which I think is a pay better for it no other I know plenty of doctors who are who are very genuine and on the honest people etc but they just stay in their lane and I guess if we tend to take that to education I think you know the world tends to stay in its lane and you think well you know why why are we not building generations of entrepreneurs because the world don't want to be entrepreneurs you know they they want someone else to to to give them a salary at the end of the month they they might they don't understand the fact that it's more risky that someone else is giving you a salary than you've got the skill set but you know but most most people they're just steady eddies in their lane aren't they so here's the question do you think that the most people want to be fit and healthy or do you think that some people just want to be fat and lazy? I think most people want to be everything but most people don't want to do anything yeah you know you know and and I think the that you know everybody wants to be rich but nobody wants to take the risks yeah everybody wants to have a six pack but nobody wants to stop eating shit. Yeah and and you know you you you can you can apply that across the board and and I think it starts off as laziness and then as life goes on longer you sell yourself a story to you know to to convince yourself why you're happy that you're skint and why you're happy that you're fat but ultimately because there's nothing in life is complicated you know a business is okay or certain businesses you know if you're yeah yeah doing tech or medical or whatever you certain things are complicated in that respect but the fundamentals of business just like the fundamentals of fitness just like the fundamentals of cooking or any I mean none of this stuff is complicated but it but it all takes efforts that that that that nobody wants to do.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Jim Rohn used to simple but it's not easy. Exactly exactly if you had the expression everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. Yes that's pretty much it okay are successful parents actually better at raising resilient children or does money make it easier to get it wrong?

SPEAKER_02 54:46

I guess that comes down to who is the person underneath the money because again you were talking earlier about you know alcohol doesn't change you it amplifies you and I and I believe that money alcohol drugs all these things they're not agents of change they're agents of amplification um so I guess it depends you know it depends you know what what what are what are the underlying parents like you know what's their attitudes and uh and again you know so I'm not let's say being sexist but let's just take for example you got a a a successful a rich guy let's use the word rich because you know we're saying successful is it necessarily but so we say a rich guy who gets in let's say a stereotypical relationship with a with a hot girl who doesn't let's say maybe do any work she she does whatever she does with the kids she likes to spend the husband's money blah blah that that just it just prolifer it just proliferates down you know by osmosis on on on onto onto the next generation I think until and listen the thing the thing cuts the other way if it's a girl with a guy so I'm you know I don't want to be getting your getting your Instagram full of full of spam comments of of of of hate of hatred but but but but what I mean is unless somebody takes a step back and and and wants to wants to make a change or wants to implement something then you know that then then then none none of these things are things are going to change. Look if I look at who I am today listen I've got so many things I can be better at and need to be better at etc but you know I am I'm not the man I was five years ago I'm certainly the guy I was 25 years ago because I have uh a never-ending appetite for learning and improvement yeah not for any reason then that's where I want to be myself you know what I want I want to be better you know I want to be whether it's you know better fitness or or better looking or or better read or better educated you know I I I always want to be better and the vast majority of the world have no interest in it whatsoever and you know I'll always say that you know most people stop learning the day that they leave school or leave university. Some people stopped learning before they even left school yeah um and I think you know so these successful parents is it easier is it harder whatever you know ultimately I don't think it's about the money it's about it's about it's about you know who who who you are as a person now I think you know you you've got to have that ongoing desire to you know desire to improve.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Yeah I think look I think you know you look at where we are today and if you're raising your daughter here now or daughters um or or Bali wherever you want you want you you're able to do that because of the success that you had if you were I mean I remember during COVID um we were living in a seven bedroom house in Spain and we were at our swimming pool and we had a we were waiting walk by the beach and everything and I was just thinking imagine if I was with was like a single pair and there was a single it's a single mum three or four kids in a tower block and she's not allowed to leave I mean that there are things that like having success does help you do certain things and it gives money gives you access yeah but you've got you but but then how how do you use it?

SPEAKER_02 58:01

It's like again one of the things you were asking about earlier was like you know like spoiling for example you know there's a money gives you the access to do whatever you want but but how how how are you going to use it?

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah yeah I think yeah and I think that but you know like I don't know how much you believe in like manifestation and things like that but I think like when you see like around you what's possible I think some one thing good about living in Dubai the standard is quite high. So there's an expectation that you're gonna this is going to be your life standard moving forward. I think that you know our kids that grow up here are just going to look at this is this is like the baseline I don't see them falling between whereas if they were growing up in another city country or whatever that might be different. You know it might not I mean if they you know we're in Africa or or or Ethiopia or like you know I don't know Philippines wherever that might not be the perception it might be hey what normal life is I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go and work in this tribe or do this thing and that's gonna be the you know the yeah no is that it's absolutely who I guess who are the people you're saying osmosis osmosis is what you've been saying the whole time is the thing that you've gone up in and done.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

Just in closing because we we just come in coming to time and I hope you hope it might be a dad might be saying might be popping a champagne right um normally I ask people on the on the podcast and I ask you you've got a wealth of experience about to be your third time as a parent and um you've gone through divorce or or or breakups you know not being with the with the with the the parents you know um with the with the mother rather um and in business world uh if somebody was going into parenthood right now maybe somewhere's in the midst of things obviously you've raised a daughter to 19 so far as you've got some wisdom and experience what would be one bit of advice that you would give to somebody just becoming a parent or going through divorce or going through breakups whatever you know I mean I think one of the biggest things I always say particularly for new parents I mean I could give you many many different advices and all along the way but you know particularly for new parents is is not to let it change you um it will obviously it will obviously change you because you have a kid but I think you know to too many people overthink and over over over stress you know when that kid comes away oh my god I'm gonna have a baby tomorrow and my life's gonna change my life's gonna be over I'm not gonna be able to do anything and yeah and I think ultimately the kids are a reflection of the parents yeah and I think you've got to you know live your life integrate them into your life your life will naturally change because you're probably not going to be going to a nightclub but whatever you're gonna do do it with the kids have as much time together you know except etc as as possible and and and I guess you'd just be very conscious of the fact that you know by osmosis again uh you know kids learn everything by osmosis and you know I I always look you know other other kids and when you see twaty kids or annoying kids or whatever it may be ultimately when you look at them the par that's that's what those parents are and you know I've I've got a you know mate of someone I know back in England you know he's got three kids they're all petri these little kids are petrified and the moaning the whiny then you look at the dad he's a total pussy yeah you know worrying about this worrying about the other worrying about things but to be very clear he doesn't need to worry about any of these things he's just a worrier yeah and this is obviously passed you know just passed on by osmosis so I think it's probably three different avenues three different tangents of conversation in there all but like a obviously just be very conscious that you know kids learn probably not from what you say but what from what you do you know what what they see it see in the environment around them but enjoy the experience you know it will change you naturally you don't need to let it change you by force um and uh it's it's the funnest thing that can happen I love it Matt it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much and I wish you all the best and congratulations again thanks all for having me on muscle every day on Muslim every day I'm Muslim every day I'm Muslim every