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Plays On Word Radio
Ep 40: Gospel, Gettysburg, and Abraham Lincoln: A Spiritual Investigation (Part 1)
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Step back in time for a closer look at the life of a man who never compromised his principle. With Bibles throughout the White House, he spoke of reconciliation with and repentance towards God…and forgiving our enemies all timely lessons especially today!
Interview with:
Pastor Cliff Whitehead, Senior Pastor
Fellowship Chapel
https://fellowshipchapelnj.org/
Encounter the Word (Podcast)
https://www.bridgeradio.org/s-z/pastor-cliff-whitehead-radio-program/
The Gospel and The Gettysburg Address Conference
Friday, November 3rd – Saturday, November 4th 2023
Join Pastor Cliff Whitehead on a brand new Gettysburg Tour! This tour will be a two-day/ one-night tour where you’ll:
• Learn about how the Gospel influenced Abraham Lincoln in his writing of the Gettysburg Address
• Learn about how Lincoln’s faith influenced him in his life and as President of the United States during the American Civil War
• Consider his knowledge of the Bible
• Walk in Lincoln’s footsteps:
Day 1 Route– From the train station that Lincoln arrived at to the David Willis’ house in which he stayed the night before giving the Gettysburg Address
Day 2 Route– From the Willis’ House (next to the hotel) to the Evergreen Cemetery where Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address
• On each route, learn about the town of Gettysburg and the impact the battle had on the town and its people
Interested? Call (732) 892-1445 and/or Email info@fellowshipchapel.org
• Check Facebook for updates: https://www.facebook.com/fellowshipchapelnj
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Abraham Lincoln's Spiritual Influence
Speaker 1Lord you know , I want you to listen to place on word radio and basically what he does in the altar call . He goes Everyone here who believes they're going to heaven stand up . Number of people stand up , Mm-hmm . And then he goes anyone here who believes they're going to hell stand up . Now Lincoln is somewhat in the front row or near the front row . He doesn't stand up either time my man .
Speaker 1Peter Cartwright comes over to him and says this way to where you going and Lincoln goes . Well , I didn't realize I'd be singled out when I came here , but as for me , I'm going to Congress .
Speaker 2Hello and welcome to plays on word radio , where we discuss , analyze , work and play on the word of God . Thank you for joining us on this excursion . Today let's join pastor Teddy , also known as Fred David Kenny Jr , the founder of plays on word theater , as he does a deep dive into the word of God .
Speaker 3Thank you very much . Josh Chaolin , katie Kenny , welcome to plays on word radio radio family . Today we are going to visit with my former pastor , pastor Cliff Whitehead , at Fellowship Chapel in New Jersey . And Cliff Whitehead is a historian as well and he is known for his Gettysburg spiritual Gettysburg tour , where he teaches the battles on the battlefield of Gettysburg but then at night he teaches a spiritual aspect of spiritual warfare . Well , he's got a new retreat that I'm gonna let him tell you about . You gotta check . Put your history hats on y'all . We've done that tour over 20 times the battlefield .
Speaker 1You know the three days and then earlier this year the Lord kind of I believe the Lord was laying on my heart to do something , because I've always studied also Abraham Lincoln and I've always admired Abraham Lincoln . If you read about Abraham Lincoln , I mostly studied him , mostly from his presidency and also as it affected the Civil War . But I always knew that Lincoln was someone who revered the Bible and he used scripture quotes a lot , and so I felt led that I really wanted to Put together a tour . So this is the first time we're doing this tour is in November and it's called the gospel and the Gettysburg address tour conference , nice , and it's two days okay , and one night , okay , okay . So this year is November 3rd or 4th , it's a Friday and a Saturday . One of the reasons we wanted to do it . There's a number of reasons we wanted to do it two days and one night , and particularly Friday and Saturdays . You know , I know that I would love a lot . I would love some pastors to come out to this way and freeze them up . They can get back for their set Sunday service and things like that . It's something that really just came together . You know how sometimes you , you feel like when something comes together in a certain way , you know the Lord's hand is in it , you know , and Basically the teachings are , there's whole tours , 25 hours , based on the fact that when Lincoln came to Gettysburg in November of 1863 right four months after the battle to give his Gettysburg address , right , he spent 25 hours there .
Speaker 1He came in . He actually finished the Gettysburg address in Gettysburg . So the train station he came in on is still there . That's where we start our tour . Okay , we start at 2 o'clock on Friday afternoon and so we we start off at the train station . I give background there , tell what went on there , and then right around the corner from it is the Will's house . It's now a museum . Wills George Will's was a lawyer in Gettysburg and he was instrumental in the dedication of the soldiers National Cemetery that Lincoln was coming to dedicate . And Lincoln stayed at his home . Okay , the night before he gave the Gettysburg and it's in one of the bedrooms that Lincoln stated that he finished the Gettysburg address . That is now a free museum . So we go from the train station to there and I we go through it .
Speaker 1I point out some of the Things I want people to take note of that fit in with our tour , but then they can spend the rest of the time looking at the whole museum , okay , and that takes us from about two o'clock to four o'clock , and then there's a check-in for people , check into the hotel , people are for dinner there on their own , okay , and then at seven o'clock that night we start the teaching .
Speaker 1And the teaching on Friday night is the Bible's influence on Lincoln as a man and as president , okay , so that's that's the Friday night one , okay , and then so there's a teaching there .
Speaker 1Then we're gonna have a Q&A at the end of the teaching , okay , and then the next morning there's breakfast in the hotel , and then we but we do after breakfast as we go out we have the teaching on Saturday morning , okay , and the teaching on the Saturday morning is is titled the gospel and the Gettysburg address , and what we we see in that as the gospel's influence on the Gettysburg address . Okay , so that is that morning . Then what we do is we actually were at that we're at a hotel that's right across the street from where Lincoln State , the place of the museum , okay , so after the teaching is over , we Walk from where Lincoln State and we follow his footsteps up Baltimore Street it's a little over a half mile to the cemetery , the Evergreen Cemetery , yeah right . So , and as we're going down Baltimore Street , I also take the time to give a little of the history of the town and what it experienced during the battle . Show some of the bullet holes .
Speaker 1Right , that's a lot of interesting . So and then we go by these two big witness trees yeah that we're there .
Speaker 3We're Lincoln walk . They were there .
Speaker 1Yes , and then we go up to the cemetery and I give a history of the two cemeteries . The Evergreen Cemetery was the town cemetery . It was there started in 1853 . So we actually go into that cemetery , give a little history of that cemetery . Some famous people of the town or Buried there , and then what happened was the government bought some of the property from the Evergreen Cemetery For the soldiers national cemetery there . So they're right up against one another , right .
Speaker 1And so then I get the history of the soldiers national cemetery , the dedication day when Lincoln was there , and I give the whole story there and then we actually read the Gettysburg address , right where Lincoln gave it . And then at the end of that we go back down the other side of Baltimore Street to give more history of the town I love it and we go back to the hotel for lunch and then basically at one lunch will be at like one o'clock by the time we get there and while we're having lunch we're gonna have a Q&A based on either to teaching the night before , the teaching that morning or part of the tour . And then at the end at that about 245 we go around the corner again from the hotel to the train station . We talk about Lincoln's departure and very quickly about , you know , his election . He's assassinated , but yeah , his second inaugural address now .
Speaker 1Here's the thing to one of my heart beat is , and I'm really studying a lot of different sources . Right now I'm reading a book that was written in 1820 by a pastor , and the title of the book is the soul of Abraham Lincoln .
Speaker 3In 1820 or 1920 .
Speaker 2I'm sorry , I'm like 1920 .
Speaker 1I'm sorry , he's a time machine . I'm glad you're correct , so .
Speaker 3so , anyways , the still , though , that's close enough .
Speaker 119 yeah , and he's got a lot of primary sources .
Speaker 3I mean it's . It's just to put in perspective .
Speaker 1It's 2023 and there are many people listening right now that can remember back to 1968 , 69 , 64 , 63 , so it's not , it's within a lifetime of somebody right , and some of the people he knew , right , because he wrote this when he was in his 60s okay , and he had retired as he was a pastor , okay , and he retired and he devoted himself to looking into the faith of Abraham Lincoln and wrote a book . I wrote a number of books on Lincoln , and so he just takes primary sources , okay . So one of the controversies is Was Lincoln a born-again believer ? Right , okay , so that's , it's a very interesting . So that's what I want to look into , because we certainly know the Bible influenced him . So I've been studying from his childhood right right through his young man . Well , they didn't have , we didn't have what they called the teenage phenomenon back then . It was . It's like young adults , okay , okay , and then , and then into his time as a lawyer , than as a politician , than as president , and so you know , everyone tries to claim Abraham Lincoln as their own .
Speaker 1You know the atheists will say oh , you know , and you know , I mean you had even some things like Even sometime German communism was starting , when Lenin , the whole thing with communism , they were even trying to embrace Lincoln , like there was this conference , lenin and Lincoln , you know really Conference , right ?
Speaker 3I'd like to go to that , just to hear it .
Speaker 1So you know and wow . But what's interesting , and I think I'll share this , let me put it this way . I think Believers will be pleasantly pleased with the conclusion I make about that question . Okay , was Lincoln a born-again Christian ? Okay , all right , one of the reasons there's a controversy Is he never made a public profession of faith as we know it today . You know what I mean . Like , in other words , back then , I'm born again and well that I'm glad you use that term and we know that's a scriptural term . It's a great term . But they didn't use that term . They use the word converted .
Lincoln's Faith and Scripture Use
Speaker 1As I've been studying it and as I'm studying , I'm praying about it . This verse comes to my mind . That , I think , is a real Theme of Lincoln's life Jeremiah 29 , 11 13 . For I know the thoughts that I think towards you , says the Lord , thoughts of peace and not of evil , to give you a future and a hope . Then you will call upon me and go and pray to me and I will listen to you and you will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart , right , and then the other , the other goes .
Speaker 1That came kind of piggyback to that is Is Hebrews 11 6 , that you know the Lord is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him . Seek for me with all your heart and diligently seek me , and I'm a rewarder of that . That , to me , is what Lincoln was . He had a faith journey , yeah , and he had to work himself through a lot of stuff . He grew up in the backwoods of Kentucky . His mom and dad went to a Baptist church that was ultra Calvinistic , to the point where they believed that God created some people for the purpose of judgment . Yeah , and Lincoln could never embrace that .
Speaker 3How do you reconcile all that .
Speaker 1Right and back then they had these settlements . There weren't any real established churches In the east . There were in the south but out in Kentucky and they had preachers that were . They called them circuit-riders .
Speaker 2Oh , yeah , yeah , Circuit-riders .
Speaker 1And so , like , in other words , the town that Abraham Lincoln grew up in , if somebody died , they buried them the next day , right , they might not have the service for a month until the preacher came back from him . Wow , so , in other words , they didn't have weekly services with a preacher . Okay , they might have met and prayed when somebody came out and you didn't know who you were necessarily going to get .
Speaker 3Oh boy , it was a potluck , I guess .
Speaker 1So what I'm saying is Lincoln's skepticism was not necessarily about God's word , but he worked them . He wasn't somebody who was going to just take someone's word for something Right .
Speaker 3The Marines were counted more noble because they didn't just take what they were worth , right , but it was a good point .
Speaker 1But he like again , he would read that that was a constant in his life , that he would read the Scriptures , yeah , and he went through a difficult time in his life where there was some skepticism but he never , ever really turned his back on the Scriptures . Okay , you know , he started to get into some of the stuff by some of the free thinkers and stuff . It was a very weird period of time , right as far as and that was in his 20s , yeah , okay , in the late 1800s , and so you had the Age of Enlightenment and all that .
Speaker 1Yes , so he was working himself through that and then . But he always went back to the Scriptures , you know . For instance , then he got into politics , yeah , and he always looked at God's wisdom and word for the politics and his decisions . And just to show you how he saw Christianity being abused , there was a fellow that he ran against who was a preacher but who was using the Scripture and his position to get himself elected . That wasn't Douglas , no , it was a guy named Peter Carver . So Lincoln was running against him for Congress .
Speaker 1Okay , so Lincoln had a couple of debates with him and this guy held tent revivals , right ? So Lincoln goes to the tent revival and he wants to hear what this guy has to say , what he's saying about the Word of God and so forth . So the guy gives his message and then he's doing like an altar call and basically what he does on the altar call . He goes everyone here who believes they're going to heaven stand up . Number of people stand up . And then he goes anyone here who believes they're going to heaven will sit down . Anyone here who believes they're going to hell , stand up . Okay , Wow , Now Lincoln is somewhat in the front row or near the front row . He doesn't stand up either time .
Speaker 1My man , peter Cartwright , comes over to him and says Mr Lincoln .
Speaker 3He saw him in the audience .
Speaker 2Yes , he sees him in the audience , mr Lincoln , he goes .
Speaker 1I noticed when I said whoever's ever going to heaven here , stand up , and you didn't stand up . And then I said who's ever going to hell Stand up ? And you didn't stand up . Mr Lincoln , where are you going ? And Lincoln goes . Well , I didn't realize I'd be singled out when I came here . But as for me , I'm going to Congress . But you know what he wouldn't , he wouldn't let himself be manipulated . Yes , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . And so it wasn't that he was downing the gospel , right , right , but this guy was just manipulate . Yeah , you know . And so I think he was misread a lot . But as you study his life right , and you get up towards , you get up towards a Gettysburg , yes , right , you see a lot of like . In other words , he quoted scripture a lot . When did his wife die ? His wife didn't die until after him . His son died , willie , in a White House in 1862 .
Speaker 3I know he suffered a death in 1862 , so it was a year before Gettysburg .
Speaker 1Yes , and .
Speaker 3He had real hard time with that . We did or , and his wife suffered severe depression because it could stuff , imagine this dead to the country shooting it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I like it under . Our country is divided today . Right , they were divided and shooting at one another back in , you know , doing the Civil War . And it's 1862 . And if remember our little , our brief history lesson there on 1862 is one of the wars not going good for Lincoln , that's the battle of Fred Dishburg . Chancellorsville is 18 , early 1863 . Lee is Winning most of them in the east . You know it's looking bad and it's looking bad so . So he's got that burden and his son dies at the same time and I love this story .
Speaker 1There's a friend of Mary Lincoln's who's one of the servants in the White House Tells this story that just at this time , it was shortly after Willie , willie died , bad news from the war front and Lincoln came into the room . He left the you know those offices of the White House , came into the room and he had such a look of gloom on his face and just worn out and she said he walked by and he went into the parlor and the door was left open and he sat down and he took out his Bible and she said he had Bibles at different parts of the White House and the different rooms , you know , and he took out and they , and the way she described , never hear that in any history book . No , and this is the first hand account , this is not someone writing a book a hundred years later . Right , this is , you know . So she she says she sits on , he sits on the stove with his long legs are draped over the end you can't picture the end of the couch , you know , and he's reading and he's in there about a half an hour and he said he came out and his count that's had seemed to lighten so much .
Speaker 1Hmm , wow , and she was curious as to what part of the Bible he was reading . So after he left and walked out , she walked into the parlor and he had happened to , I guess , leave it open , I'm nice , and he was in the book of Job and but you know , so people that were very close to him knew how much he relied on the word of God . Yeah , and one of the things he also struggled depression , mm-hmm . But what you start to see around 1862 , particularly going into 1863 in Gettysburg , and from there to the time of his second inauguration and as a second inaugural address , is you see his focus when it comes to how he's using scripture . More focus on reconciliation and redemption .
Speaker 3Yeah , yeah , right .
Speaker 1I mean , he always used scripture , you know , right , like a country divided itself again , it cannot stand right . But now it's focused on redemption , hmm , and it's focused on reconciliation , right ? Yeah , james Dean Kennedy , I had that name , right .
Speaker 3Dr D James Kennedy . I remember him .
Abraham Lincoln's Faith and Legacy
Speaker 1It's believed by him and some others that it was somewhere around the time of the Gettysburg address or after he left , that that he gave his heart to Christ and and . But the thing is again , there was never a public profession of faith . He shared it with some people , yeah , but that skeptics would say why do you know that ? You know , I mean , that's here , say right , but what you see is to me why I'm convinced that he knew Christ as a savior . Is this journey ?
Speaker 3Yeah , he sought the Lord saw , yeah , the Lord drew him .
Speaker 1You see , god , You're gonna , you're gonna , and the Lord rewarded him right , and I believe there's some stories out there too that he was playing and I have to look more into this . So if you come to the retreat , maybe I'll have maybe also something more definitive on this . But Well , we know this . On Good Friday he was in 1865 he was on a carriage ride with and this is after the war Appomattox was just the April 9th , right .
Speaker 1The war was basically pretty much over at that point . And he's riding with Mary Lincoln on Friday , on Good Friday , and they're out in the carriage ride and he says to her you know , now that this war is almost over , he goes , I want to take . And he said to Mary said you know , we've been kind of a strange from one another . He goes , but I want to , I want to go to Israel and I want to walk in the steps of the Savior . Wow , and it's believed that he was going to make a public profession of faith that Sunday . This is Good Friday . Wow , he's assassinated that night .
Speaker 3Yeah , wow , oh , my goodness but I'm doing some more research on . Okay , All right but , but to me .
Speaker 1To me . What affirms them in my heart is the Lord's given me these two scriptures . Yeah , like , as I'm reading and researching , these are the two scriptures that keep coming back . Yeah , yeah so , while we want to have evidence , I believe that the Lord , it always comes down to faith .
Speaker 3To make a statement like that . I want to walk in the Savior's sense . I just don't see somebody who doesn't really believe saying that they might say I want to see where Jesus went .
Speaker 1Well , if you notice walking , steps , I mean . Did you see the Lincoln movie ?
Speaker 3Daniel Day-Lewis yes , yes , yes , yes , terrific .
Speaker 1If you watch the end of that movie , they show the carriage ride with Mary Lincoln . But if you notice in the movie , they have him saying I want to walk in the steps of King David . Is that right ?
Speaker 3But that's not what he's saying that's not See , this is the type of stuff you guys get on the retreat . I'm telling you , that's amazing , Isn't that interesting ? Hollywood would change it to King David . Of course I'm not surprised .
Speaker 1Now , as a Christian , we wouldn't object to that , only if we know what he really said .
Speaker 3Right , right . That's fascinating you know , actually , that brings up one other thing . You talked about the Gettysburg Address and there was a dude that was an orator , yes , before Lincoln , edward Everett and he spoke for how long ? Two hours , two hours , oh , my goodness .
Speaker 1So you guys out there that think my sermon is along , you should .
Speaker 3Oh man two hours .
Speaker 1But you know , these guys , back then , these orators , they were well known Like , in other words , of course they didn't have TV back then We'll go to see them . They would come to a town and they would give an oration on history or fiction or whatever it might be , and people would come and listen to them for two hours , you know , and these guys didn't have notes in front of them . The orators yeah , so Edward Everett was well known , edward Everett . The cemetery is dedicated on November , the 19th 1863 . And so they wanted Edward Everett to be the guest speaker . So when they advertised , in other words , they set the date November 19th based on his schedule , because he was in this town this day , and so he fitted into his schedule . And so it said , basically , the poster said you know , dedication of the Soldiers National Cemetery , featured speaker Edward Everett . And then , underneath , a few appropriate words by President Lincoln Is that right ?
Speaker 3Yeah , nobody remembers what Everett said , but the Gettysburg Address is memorized by people even today . 262 words , mm-mm .
Speaker 1And Edward Everett . He gave his oration , People applauded and basically he gave a history of America Right , right Up to the Civil War , including the Civil War . But Lincoln , now he was sick in Gettysburg he had like a chest cold . And he got up and he gave the Gettysburg Address and 262 words and he thought he bombed out .
Speaker 3Yeah . What was the response on the ground at the time ?
Speaker 1Some polite applause Okay , some people were cheering around , it wasn't ?
Speaker 3like that's the greatest thing since the Sermon on the Mount .
Speaker 1But you know , the thing was is that he thought he bombed out . Okay , and then the next day Edward Everett told him . He said , mr Lincoln , you came closer to the central truth of the matter in two minutes than I did in two hours . Wow , but and we know now it's probably , I think it's the most inspired human speech . I mean , scripture is set apart by itself .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's set apart , but that's the Gettysburg Address stands alone .
Speaker 1Yeah , and the interesting thing is you like four score and seven years ago comes from Scripture and the whole theme about you know , a nation , birth of the nation , new birth , and so on that Saturday morning we go into the details of that .
Speaker 3Oh yeah .
Speaker 1The Bible's in , I mean the Gospel's in for us , Gospel's in for us . I love it On the Gettysburg Address and there's the cadence of the Gettysburg Address , the cadence she gave it in . Yeah , it's the cadence of the King James Version Bible . The way the words flow .
Speaker 3Yeah , there's no doubt that . I mean they didn't have 200 channels with nothing on . Yeah , the cable TV back then they didn't have . They didn't have movie theaters . They did have theater but they didn't have . I mean , many people a lot of times would sit around and discuss the Bible , talk the Bible . Most of the people knew the Bible , so it was a textbook in school . Kids learned to read through the Bible .
Speaker 1Sure Read through the Bible that in the Sears Catalan , no , really back in the .
Speaker 1Bible , the Book of War in Sears , yeah , the Bible , that's how they learned to read Most of them Now . You just think of this war , right ? You basically had Americans fighting against each other , americans that worship the same God , right ? So it was like , you know , the South was saying God's on our side , the North is saying God's on our side . And so , you know , lincoln said he said one might be right , but both can't be right , but both can be wrong , both can be wrong . And then he finally said this he goes . My concern is not that God be on my side , but that I be on God's side , because God is always right , like the angel Lord speaking to Joshua .
Speaker 3There , you know , josh was like who's ? Who's side are you on ? And the Lord was like I'm not . I'm not . I'm the commander of the Lord's army . You need to be on my side , buddy . Take off your shoes . Where you stand is on the Holy ground , and isn't that the thing ? Is there a lesson we could take from that ? We need to be on the Lord's side and not be trying to pick sides .
Speaker 1Yeah , Be on . I think you know , I think what we've got in politics today if I can give my little yes spirit , yes , okay , so we've got divisiveness is winning the day . And Lincoln Lincoln was a man of principle . He never compromises principles , but he's somebody who reached out to the other side and he never attacked personally . Like you know . He would hold his principles in debate and so forth , but he never attacked the other person and he never seemed to .
Speaker 1And if he never really took things personally to the point where he had a vendetta , and you know , by the end of the war you had Southerners appreciating him . I mean , there were some that hated him because they , you know , they , you know the guys that were really on the slavery to last forever . But you had guys , like someone said , when Jefferson , when Abraham Lincoln was assassinated , someone said to Jefferson Davis , mr Davis , you must be so happy here in bed , he goes , no , he goes . I could think of thousands of others I'd rather have assassinated than Mr Lincoln . Yeah , and Lincoln and it when one of the things we look at at the train station before we leave Gettysburg is his second inaugural address . Yeah , and the second ordeal address is not that long and it's almost like a sermon and it talks about reconciliation . He said we all were wrong . Wasn't just the sound ?
Speaker 3Whoa , he stepped on some toes in the north with that . Oh , he did .
Speaker 1By saying that Absolutely .
Speaker 3I forgot . He said that .
Speaker 1Because he understood that when this country started , the north had slavery too , yeah , wow .
Lincoln's Beliefs on Repentance and Reconciliation
Speaker 1And he felt that this war was part of God's judgment on the nation . But again , he believed that it was disciplinarian , that God still loved the people , but he was disciplining them . So that was , you know , that was huge . Yeah , that's wow . And he said that the nation needs to repent . What politician do you hear use the word repent today ? I mean , he said it a number of times in the last two years of his life .
Speaker 3So there's more indication that he was that word man , yeah , it's people that are not changed . Don't talk about repenting , no , no , it's only with the spirit of God working on you , saying you know what I need ? To repent of my sins . We need to repent , turn around , face the Lord , you know , turn , and that's fascinating , yeah , and that's the thing is that he was .
Speaker 1I mean , this is my conviction is , when you get by the time you get to that second inauguration , he's talking reconciliation with God , repentance towards God , not just as a nation , but as individuals and a nation , yeah , wow . And the whole idea of forgiving our enemies .
Speaker 3Amen , amen . We're going to have links for Cliff stuff up here and we're going to continue this conversation next time , but until next Friday , the Lord bless you and keep you . The Lord make his face shine upon you . Lord , be gracious to you , give us the best count it's upon you and give you peace .
