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Ep 45: Faith, Determination, and Deep-Fried Delights - Tales of a Wisconsin Church Plant (Part 2)
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Have you ever had a disagreement and wondered if the fence could ever be mended? Well, our guests certainly did. Join us for part two to hear of the courage it took to act on God’s call and the importance of bravery in God’s service!
PlayGrounds Section Interview with:
Pastor Dave and wife, Vicky Goyke
Calvary Chapel Waupaca: https://calvarychapelwaupaca.org/
*BONUS - Extended Interview: https://on.soundcloud.com/7TF8E
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Unity in Christian Church Ministry
Speaker 1Lord , you know you listen on the place of word . Radio is the best .
Speaker 2You know , all of us are talking about where they can go get a hamburger when we're done and we can't get enough lighting , and so we're in this attic digging around for a lamp and I'm like they're having a Bible study here . How can they have a Bible study here ? And then , I think , nobody showed up . I mean , one other person came . Oh yeah , yeah . So it was me and Vicki the owner , his buddy , who are just concerned about hamburgers , and then somebody else that comes .
Speaker 2That was just there , I don't know what . For you know , I did this Bible study and we left there thinking , no , there is nothing going on to walk back , there is no floor to that .
Speaker 3Hello and welcome to plays on word radio , where we discuss , analyze , work and play on the word of God . Thank you for joining us on this excursion . Today let's join Pastor Teddy , also known as Fred David Kenny Jr , the founder of plays on word theater , as he does a deep dive into the word of God .
Speaker 4Thank you , it's so good to have calm waters and good relationships with brothers and sisters that you know , paul and Barbas . You know they didn't come to Fisticuffs . They parted ways over disagreement , but both were effective and Mark was useful to Paul later in his life Later on . You know , at the time , paul , I always look at his Paul being hearted . Paul was like nah man . He left us .
Speaker 4He peeled out on us man , on that first trip , I'm not taking him back . And Barbas was like , yeah , man , he's my cousin man , he's my family man , he'll be all right , I'm not having it . No , no , no , uh-uh , not this time . And they had their disagreement . But later on you see Paul saying you know Mark is good for ministry , yeah , so .
Speaker 2Well , and if I can encourage anybody that , if you have any reason why you're going to leave the church , if you're moving , if there's something doctrine that you disagree with whatever it might be maybe you don't like the worship , I don't know whatever it might be , my encouragement to go to the leadership of that church , sit down and talk with them and leave on those good terms , yes , instead of just don't just disappear and everybody wonders what happened and why . Or don't go away mad . Sit down and talk and leave unified , because that's the way it should be in the Christian church . We shouldn't have this stuff where people just get mad and leave , or they try to take out the people with them or they throw you know so seeds of discord through the church . There just needs to be that that . Hey , you know what . This is why I'm leaving , but I love you and it's extremely important .
Speaker 4It's put it this way it's so important that before , before we started on any , any tour of doing plays , when God first gave us the plays on word , the whole thing to do , he made me . He said you know , do you have anything against anybody ? Does anybody have anything against you ? Because I was like I've forgiven everyone , I think , for anything . And he was like .
Speaker 3Does anybody have ?
Speaker 4anything against you and I was like , well , I don't know maybe , and he had me go and go back to the places where I had ministered with guys and served under guys . And I went back to all the senior pastors and you know leadership , and I just said , hey , listen , I just I want to apologize if I did anything wrong . I want to make sure we are good in the Lord and if you have anything against me , please forgive me .
Speaker 4I have you know if anything all the guys were like no , I don't have any problem , but the Lord wanted to make sure before we even started anything and that kind of showed me that it was important to Him . Where I was like is it really that big of a deal ? And I was like , come on , I haven't talked to Him in a couple of years . Anyway , he was like you go back . Yeah , that's cool .
Speaker 4You go back and do that and I did that and to this I'm grateful to this day , because I have relationships with all those guys now you know all the guys . I can call them up and I can get counsel from them , or a couple of them have been on the radio program . So it's , you know , it's just been a real blessing . It's so important . So bravo to you guys for doing that . But you're making your way to Calvary Chapel . So get to Calvary Chapel , oshkosh . Calvary Chapel , oshkosh .
Speaker 2Calvary Chapel and I just wanted to serve and we both did so . We both started serving there and we were there all the time . We were just doing stuff that needed to be done . We were shoving snow , we I did . I was familiar building maintenance , that was in my background , so I did a lot of building maintenance and Vicki was serving and cleaning and working in the nursery and helping me with other projects there and you know .
Speaker 2And so our pastor saw that and he just saw our , our desire to be in ministry to minister and we weren't looking for recognition . He saw that and so he approached me one day and said hey , did you ever hear about Calvary Chapel Bible College ? And I said , no , I know there was such a thing . And he said do you want to go ? And I said I'm not leaving my job . You know I'm a firefighter . I don't really want to leave that . I'm not . I don't feel called to go out somewhere and go to school and go on that path . He said , no , you can do it online , you can do it right from home and keep your job . And so I did .
Speaker 2I started going to Calvary Chapel Bible College . So I got some education in ministry , got deeper into the word , got more training . So we did that and we were just praying what the Lord might have . During that time I became assistant pastor at Calvary Chapel in Oshkosh and kept just serving . We were serving behind the scenes . We had a boiler that would just shut down on its own . So we'd be in Wednesday night service and I go in my mind and we would the boiler's out .
Speaker 4You can feel the cold , you know it's out and so you know , we'd fellowship afterward .
Speaker 2Everybody leaves and I would go down to basement and work on the boiler for the next two hours , you know , or whatever , take Vicki home and come back . And so this is what we did . And so we just waited on the Lord and said , whatever it might be , I could be the assistant pastor here forever . I mean , I love this trip , we love Oshkosh , calvary , we love the people , we really love the people . And he said , maybe the Lord has for us . We're content whatever he has . And then Papaka came up and Calvary Chapel , appleton , had some people that were from this area and they said we would like a church in Papaka . And they said there's nobody . There's churches here but nobody's teaching the Bible chapter by chapter , verse by verse .
Speaker 1Same thing as you guys , because they're about 45 minutes away . Exactly the situation , same situation , yeah .
Speaker 2So we , well , okay , we'll pray about it . And then they actually came up to start a Bible study up here at a place that we were supposed to take him to see that place , but anyway , we , they were going to start a Bible study . So they came up to do a Bible study in Papaka and the assistant pastor at Calvary Chapel , appleton , was all excited about this and he saw well , papaka is the thing , well , papaka needs you , well , papaka needs a church . And it was all well Papaka , well , papaka . So he couldn't be there one night and he said would you go up and do the Bible study for me ? So we came up and Vicki and I came up through the study and we went to the place where it was at . There was nobody there . There was like no lights .
Speaker 1We had to go find a lamp and it was a static and there's and then this .
Speaker 2So the owner of the place is there . He's an older gentleman . This friend comes in . You know all those are talking about where they can go get a hamburger when we're done and we can't get enough lighting , and so we're in this attic digging around for a lamp and I'm like they're having a Bible study here . How can they have a Bible study here ? Nobody showed up at all . One other person came .
Speaker 3Oh yeah .
Speaker 2So there's me and Vicki the owner , his body who are just concerned about hamburgers , and then somebody else that comes , that was just here , I don't know what for , and I did this Bible study and we left there thinking , no , there is nothing going on in Wapaka , the Lord's not moving them up back and she says I don't want to hear the W word anymore .
Speaker 1I really felt like this assistant pastor was kind of pushing the idea . I guess , I just wanted to be sure it was from the Lord and that my husband was hearing from the Lord and not from people you know , people trying to make something happen .
Speaker 2It seemed like that's what it was . He was trying to make something happen to you as he was talking it all up and we got up here and said , no , there's nothing , the Lord's not moving them up back .
Speaker 1And then we also went to well , they did not have a good Bible teaching word for word church . But we came up to the chamber and we looked at their church directory and like it's a town of 6,000 people and like the church church was , like you know , 15 churches and I'm like , really , do you think they even have ?
Speaker 2another church here yeah . So we kind of just put it to bed and , okay , wapak is , you know . So we're just ministering in Oshkosh and we're seeing what goes on . And then it was about a year later Wapaka came up again .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , because .
Speaker 2Pastor Koi had that . So Covert Chapel , appleton , the senior pastor , pastor Dwight who's ? We just loved Dwight and he was going to start a school ministry and at the same time he was going to come to Wapaka . They were trying to get a retreat center out south of town or trying to purchase it and make it go , and it was about five miles south of Wapaka and so that summer Pastor Dwight was going to do a revelation study out at the retreat center for this area and so that summer there was a school ministry going on Pastor Dwight's doing this revelation study . So we go to the school ministry just because we always want to learn and grow and be taught by the Lord and be taught by others and be better at what we do . So we went to the school ministry and they had the retreat center we're serving up there trying to help them get it ready . We're excited about what that might be and what the Lord might do . And then , as Pastor Dwight's doing , getting towards the end of his revelation study , he sat down with me and he said you know , what are you thinking ? Where do you think the Lord's taking ? And I said I'm ready to go where he would call me . And then me and Pastor Dwight talked about do we want to start something in Wapaka ? And I said I think so . There was 200 people coming to this revelation study out at the retreat center and so Pastor Dwight said this is what we'll do . You pray about it . But when the revelation study is down , we're meeting on Sunday nights . That's going to be done in October . If you want to continue on Sunday nights and just start a church plant meeting Sunday nights after we're done . And we prayed about it and we said that's what we're going to do . So the revelation
Starting a Church and Overcoming Challenges
Speaker 2study ended .
Speaker 2Pastor Dwight announced the last few times at the Kewa Chapel Pack it was going to be starting here on Sunday nights after that . And we did and we started with the . We had a couple . There was three other couples that were going to help us get this going and then we had some friends and a large family , a bunch that came . That first night we had probably 30 people at our Bible study and it was . This is cool and we're excited that the first night went really good . The Kewa Chapel Pack has started and we went back the next week and all the visitors didn't come back . Of course they were there to encourage us . So it was like us families , couples and then maybe a couple of other people there .
Speaker 1Yeah , if there were if there were 10 people .
Speaker 2That's what we were .
Speaker 2And so this is Kewa Chapel Pack and that's how we started and we just kept doing that thing on Sunday nights out at the retreat center and people were hearing about us and we would get a few visitors here and there . And you know , after about two years we were up to probably 30 people and we felt and then the retreat center , it didn't fly and we were going to lose ability to stay there . So we needed a place to meet . So we're looking for a place to meet . We're up to about 30 people , we're shopping around and I was asked to visit a church that was meeting in the basement of the historical society in the pack .
Speaker 2Here the pastor that was doing was a retired Moody Bible college professor . He was teaching this . He would leave the pastor in this church as meeting the basement of the historical society and he invited me to come to his church and he said what I'd like to do is ask have you asked the people that when I reached he wanted to retire permanently , wanted to be done . He said I would like you to invite the people to your church and I said why ? And he said because you're the only church in this area that's teaching Lord . And he said I've done my homework and I want them to come to your church . So we went to this church . We invited those people to come to our church . We got about three families .
Speaker 2Yeah , three or four families from that church did come join us , and so that doubled our church .
Speaker 1I was going to say we kind of doubled right there . It was kind of like church worth is great .
Speaker 4Praise the God for this guy you know .
Speaker 2But he saw what we saw in the pack . There's always churches here , but really nobody is really teaching the word .
Speaker 4That's not just Wabaka , that's all over .
Speaker 3Why notice that ?
Speaker 4Plethora of churches but the people are not really necessary . I'm not knocking churches , but if they're not teaching the word , I mean they're not feeding the people .
Speaker 2It's like going to a restaurant that doesn't it's not really serving a lot of food Right exactly , and he saw it , and so that helped me to have peace with the fact that we're here starting a church . Because there are other churches here , why should we do the same thing someone else is doing ? Why don't we just join them ? But we're doing something unique , and so he confirmed that . So that will ask me a lot , by his confirmation and by those people coming to our church and us growing . So we're looking for this building and we wanna go to Sunday mornings and become like a real church , you know , legit Sunday morning , not Sunday night .
Speaker 2And so I think we went to Sunday morning , which fell out of nature's edge , I think . And then we were looking at buildings and the building we're currently in came up for sale and it was a school district building , so it was owned by the Wapakka School District and it was gonna go all for bids . And we came and me and the elders came , we toured the building , the janitor let us in , he toured it with us and then he locked the door and said do you guys turn the lights up when you leave and he can see as long as we want ? We wanted to pray and he said hey , you can be here as long as you want . Just make sure you turn the lights up , make sure the door latches when you leave . So we sat here for an hour we just didn't pray .
Speaker 2Nice and we kind of left and we convened and said we can't afford that building . You know , there was one just like this that sold over by the hospital an identical elementary school , and it went for way one we could afford . So we didn't put an offer in , and so this was like November . And then in December we get a call from the school district and said why didn't you put an offer in ? And we said we can't afford what you're gonna want to flip them . And they said well , nobody put any offers and tell us what you can afford . So this is December . We write up a land contract . Well , the school district isn't a realtor , you know , they don't really wanna do a land contract , but we wrote up a land contract because we didn't have money to just buy a building . Nobody's gonna give us a loan . We're 30 people on a church that's not even two years old . And so we write up this land contract for like half of what the other schools sold for , and you know , little payments , the bloom payments at the end of each year , and all this , and we submitted it and basically they laughed at us and that was the end of that . And so that was December . We figure we're looking for a building , we don't know where we're gonna go , we're losing our place at Nature's Edge , they're closing . So what are we gonna do ? And so that was December , easter time the next year , so spring , march , april .
Speaker 2We get a call from the school district , just out of the bloom , and they say we'd like to talk more about your offer . And I said , well , we don't have a lot to talk about , but we will talk . And so we took our offer , we tweaked it a little bit , we kind of went out on a little bit of a limb more and we resubmitted it and they accepted it . So we bought this building from the school district , a state entity , on a land contract I think . We had like $500 a month , oh no , $779 a month payments , $30,000 bloom payment at the end of each year , and then it was a five year contract .
Speaker 2The balance hadn't paid off and there was some agreements that we couldn't touch the structure without their permission , we couldn't do any of the paint without their permission and also , if they went back to them , we didn't destroy it , and so . But they sold us the building . So we had a land contract with school district back and we moved into this building . Oh , but they separated the lot . The slot is four and a half acres , and so we had about two in the other two and a half . They separated and they kept . That's fascinating .
Speaker 1So they kept that part over there , yeah , so after .
Speaker 2So we were making our payments , we're making our bloom payments , and we ended up . The first year we paid more than we were supposed to on the end of the year payment . The second year we paid way more than we were supposed to . And the third year we paid off the building . And our church was growing and people were just so generous and in three years we paid off the building , hallelujah . And not only that , but we bought the other two and a half acres that they had kept . So we put the property back together again and so within three years we were debt free . We owned the entire four and a half acres and we were just . We were just and the church was so excited . Amen For the Lord's provision .
Speaker 3That's incredible . That became a testimony .
Speaker 2Yes , First of all , the school district entered into a land contract with you . The school district entered into a land contract with you for a building you're paying about half of what they sold another one just like it for . And then the Lord provided for that to be paid off three years in us to be out of debt and it became a testimony that the whole church was using to tell people hey , this is what the Lord's doing .
Speaker 4Yeah , this is people . This is not luck , this is the Lord's hand . This is God's provision . It is . There are other churches one I'm very close to that are in similar positions . So this is , this is great . Yeah , I love hearing this .
Speaker 2And the cool thing for us is the leadership especially . And then the church knew it . We're transparent . So the church knew who we are and they know we're not behind the scenes , manipulating things , we're not making deals . We were stupid . We have no , we're not good as a savvy , but it was the Lord and everybody saw that and so it was just a wonderful testimony , and for a new church to have that testimony of what the Lord is doing . So they couldn't say , oh , look at Pastor David's doing , look at Vicki does at the church , look at what you know so-and-so . No , it's only the Lord .
Speaker 4Oh my God , can you do that ?
Speaker 2And so that really helped the community and other people to see that we are just looking to the Lord , we're trusting in the Lord , and when you do , the Lord provides .
Speaker 1And we're in a small town and so when all this was going on like we were putting in a bid , and then we got the church and everything , we made the front page of the newspaper every week , like .
Speaker 3Kelbury .
Speaker 1Chapel puts it a bit on Westwood School .
Speaker 3So you get free outcomes On the front page of the paper every time God knows what he's doing .
Speaker 1And then people in town , like you know they'd be like oh , what are you doing ? We're from Oshkosh , what are you doing here ? Oh , my pet , my husband started a church here . Well , where is it ? Westwood School building . That's all you have to say . They know exactly where we're at , and then a lot of people come , would come , especially at the beginning , just because they want to see . You know , they used to always to go to school here . I was in second grade , so I want to come to . So you know , that was very cool too . God used a lot of that .
Speaker 4Did you find that that experience has strengthened your resolve and faith in God ? When things maybe are difficult sometimes , do you ever find yourself relying back on that's right . You know what ? When we didn't know what was going to happen , he came through . You know absolutely my buddy , mike Morgan . He says God showed up and showed out . And Katie Alston will say now God's just showing off Praise the .
Speaker 2Lord . There can be some of that , but absolutely we do . We look back and sometimes ministry can be discouraging . There can be some low points in ministry , but we look back and say , look what God's been doing . He didn't do all that just to close the doors or just to have us quit . He did it for a purpose and he's doing the work here and we need to continue on and so that inspires the people in the church .
Speaker 4There you go Now . The body of Christ is strengthened through those type of stories and actually through those type of experiences .
Speaker 2Even unbelievers are looking like wow , what happened ?
Speaker 4You're telling me , they got their building . For what ?
Speaker 2Yeah , in . The community .
Speaker 1The neighbors , especially the neighbors .
Speaker 2Yeah , the neighbors and the witness of the neighbors . Like the property was a mess when the school , you know , chain link fence around the school property .
Speaker 1It was vacant for over two years . Can imagine it's beautiful when I pulled up and said right ?
Speaker 2No , it wasn't . And like in our parking lot there's chain link fence and it's all over a grown up brush . And so we come in and we clean this all up and we maintain the grounds and we landscape and we develop , and the neighbors come by and they may not care of hill beans while going to church here , but they just say we can't believe what you've done to this place and how much it means to our neighborhood . And so we have that witness and we didn't even share the gospel , we didn't share the Bible , but we we have a , we cleaned up the place and they're blessed because they're neighbors and it was an eye sort of them and so they're appreciative and so that makes them think , hey , there might be something real to these guys , because they actually care about the neighborhood .
Speaker 4It's fascinating because in the corporate action of your , of the church here , you're doing what Dan did for you . In a lot of ways , you're living out the gospel as a group of believers here , but just just living it out , cleaning up the , the premises here and and and being good neighbors and the impact that he had on you . You're like something's different about this guy and people in the community are probably so . It was different about these guys .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , and I'll tell you how that paid off later on .
Church Wins Zoning Battle for Expansion
Speaker 2Fast forward down the road to we bought the billion 2005 2016 . We wanted to expand in part of our expansion . We have a little we call a bump out on our sanctuary , up by the stage , so we get a little lighting on the sides and kind of break up a big flat wall and all that kind of stuff . So it was architecturally done . But to do that we needed a variance because we were going beyond the setback from the street .
Speaker 2And so we went down to City Hall when we did the addition to get a variance . And I went down and asked for the paperwork and they said the guy from zoning said we do have a procedure to get variances , but we don't give them , so you're wasting your time . And for me that was like them's fight and words yeah , so I , okay , where do I sign up for this ? And so I said , well , I would like to go through the process , so . So I said why don't I go through the process ? Well , it's in a class of $250 for the application . I said , great , I'll pay it , ok . And so we got that . We got the paperwork , I did all kinds of homework and research and I put together a package to sell our reason for our variance .
Speaker 2And then we had a hearing before the zoning commission . And so here we are . It's me against zoning commission . It's kind of a David and Goliath moment , you know . And and I go there and I think we'll be all alone here . Our contractor couldn't be here that night to support me . So it's me before the zoning commission and there's another elderly couple sitting back here in the gallery where the citizens can be , and it's like they're going to speak and they're probably against this . You know , they don't want us to expand on the church . So I'm just thinking , oh boy , I'm just praying . So we get started , and and is there ?
Speaker 4anybody , this is 2016 . 2016 .
Speaker 2Ok , ok , so you've been here for eight years , yeah , yeah , OK , and so we go to and I'm kind of relating this to how the neighbors and the effect we have on neighbors so we go to this hearing and it's about to start and they ask if there's any public comment before we start , me and the zoning commission going back and forth . And this little couple gets up and the guy comes to the podium and I'm thinking , oh , here we go . You know they're going to trash us . And he starts tearing into the zoning committee and he says I can't believe that you guys are making this church go through this to get that , that expansion . He said they want to go past the setback by I think was three feet and you're making them jump through all these hoops . They've done nothing but good for this neighborhood .
Speaker 2And he goes on and I said wow this guy's on our side , no , and he's just he's just tying into him and he's like my defense attorney , you know , and I'm just going , oh my gosh , where does this guy come from ? And I had no idea , see , you know , but because of what ? The impact , the neighbors that we are ? Yeah , this guy came on to the press and said let this church do this thing ? Yeah , you know , they've been . They just probably made the world to you because you fell alone .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely , and I thought for sure they were against me , but I walked in , you know , for some reason , because I didn't hear of anybody that was going to stand with us . And so , you know , so just being that good neighbor , you know , being part of the community that we're living in and respecting people , speaks to them , and then here they are in our defense . And so we ended up winning that fight at zoning , and we did get our variance , which the zoning guy said we don't give . We didn't get it , and so it wasn't David and Goliath won , because David stood against Goliath and the Lord won . Yeah , that's fantastic . So I think , you know , we never know who we're impacting when we live all our Christian faith with the Christian conduct that Peter talks about . You know , his letters are all about Christian conduct and we need to have that proper Christian conduct in all we do , because we don't know who we're ministering to by not even saying anything , Us being the light of the world .
Speaker 4I mean Christ is the light of the world , but Him living through us . A lot of times we don't have any idea of people that are watching , Right .
Speaker 2Right , you know , it's one thing for them to come to your defense at a zoning meeting , but what is maybe the Lord doing in their heart otherwise , spiritually as well ? And so you know , one day do they come and , you know , talk to you about the Lord , or give you a chance to minister to them spiritually .
Speaker 4Yeah , well , I gotta say that the sanctuary is fantastic , the whole church , I mean . It's really cool . You can see the bones of a school . Yeah , it's very Calvary Chapel-ish , like taking something and let the Lord make something greater than was originally planned . You know , making a new creation out of something . And this is absolutely a church which is really cool . And then the congregation has a very loving congregation and very welcoming and if you're ever near Wisconsin , you need to stop in at Calvary Chapel , wapak up here . And even if you're not in Wisconsin , if you're in Ohio , make a trip . Right , you're in Michigan , come on over .
Fools for Christ in Wapak
Speaker 4Thank you , guys for letting us come out and be fools for Christ , and we absolutely , even if you don't invite us back to do a play , we're going to come back to Wapak .
Speaker 3Yeah , we're going to come back here Because we have family back here now .
Speaker 4We have friends and we'll come . I'm going to come back just to go to that cafe . We just went and have some dessert Because they let me tell you guys something they gave us some this cheese stuff . Man , it was like fried cheese , deep fried cheese . Oh my goodness , yeah what . I can't get it in New Jersey . I don't think you can get it in North Carolina either . But I tell you what I'm trying to . I'm trying to do Uber Eats and be like hey , can you guys deliver to wherever we are ? So thank you again for what else they're going to do .
Speaker 2The cheese curd . The cheese curd deep fried cheese curd man that changed my life .
Speaker 3I feel like I'm going to the milking� t . This program was made possible by the Plays On Word family of supporters . To find out more , check out our website at PlaysOnWordorg .
