Unstoppable @ Craig

Unleashing Creativity and Fostering Innovation with Bobby LeFebre

• Episode 7

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Are you ready to redefine the landscape of leadership through creativity? We promise an enlightening journey as we sit down with former Colorado Poet Laureate, Bobby LeFebre, and delve into the vital role of creativity and curiosity in the workplace. We explore how the marriage of imagination and innovation can drive growth and navigate the complexities of our modern world.

We not only scratch the surface but dig deeper into the art of questioning, the power it harnesses to create forward movement, and how it challenges the status quo. We unravel the beauty of diversity, highlighting the balance between creative and analytical minds and their role in cultivating innovation. Through the lens of vulnerability, we explore how critique groups can stir growth within an organization, fostering a culture of trust and inclusivity.

As we wrap up, we leave you with this thought - a successful venture is a collaborative effort, a beautiful dance of creatives, statisticians, and analysts, all working together towards a shared vision. Are you ready to embark on this journey of creativity and leadership with us?

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Disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. No professional relationship is implied or otherwise established by reading this document. You should not use this information to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease without consulting with a qualified healthcare provider. Craig Hospital is not affiliated with resources that may be referenced in this podcast. Craig Hospital assumes no liability for any third-party material or for any action or inaction taken as a result of any content or any suggestions made in this podcast and should not be relied upon without independent investigation. The information on this page is a public service provided by Craig Hospital and in no way represents a recommendation or endorsement by Craig Hospital. Any use of this content by a corporation or other revenue-seeking or -generating organization is prohibited unless first approved by Craig Hospital. 

For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable

Craig Hospital is a nationally recognized neurorehabilitation hospital and research center specialized in the care of individuals who have sustained a spinal cord injury (SCI) and/or a brain injury (BI). Located in Denver, Colorado, Craig Hospital is an independent, not-for-profit, 93-bed national center of excellence that has treated thousands of people with SCI and BI since 1956. Learn more: https://craighospital.org

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where we pull back the curtain on what makes healthy workplace cultures click and what happens when people are empowered to expand the boundaries of what is possible. We'll explore the perspectives of employees and leaders who have carte blanche to speak their truths, tell their stories and unlock uncommon ways of approaching challenges. I'm Dr. Jand el Allen- Davis, CEO and President of Craig Hospital, a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital the and research of patients with spinal cord and brain injury. Join me as we learn from people who love what they do and what happens when fear doesn't stifle innovation. It is so cool that we're here today getting to do this. I'm almost giddy and giggly. I'll try not to be. Having this opportunity to talk with Bobby LeFebre, who is a recent friend, I would say, although I have known of your work from afar for a long time, so it means a ton that you would spend time with Craig, with me, today, talking about the whole topic of creativity.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

But this podcast is really focused and created and hopefully sharing some messages of what it's like and what's required of leaders in this particular epoch in which we find ourselves, and so I have the privilege and the opportunity to think about leadership through a ton of lenses and speak to people inside and outside of Craig On any of a host of topics, and one for sure, the minute we launched this that I wanted to spend time talking about was the importance of creativity in the workplace. So it just seemed super fitting in terms of understanding the importance of creativity that I had a chance to talk with you.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Colorado's former ju st recently completed your term as our poet laureate which is an amazing honor and in some ways, not surprising, to me. But back to the topic of creativity in organizations today. I ground this work in a lot of ways in Daniel Pink's A Whole New Mind, where he talked about and puts forth the notion that we've solved effectively the easy stuff in our planet.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

I like to say. we can get food from one side of the world to the other. For the most part, water is clean and we know how to clean it, even in the places where it isn't. You know, we can fly planes to crazy places. We've done all the technical stuff. The hard societal, organizational, structural components of how our world works requires a different way of thinking, and that's what Pink talks about, this notion of the whole new mind is that we're in a very complex world that's going to take a different sort of approach and way of thinking about it, and I think creativity has a super important role to play.

Bobby LeFebre

Absolutely, and creativity is really all we know. It's been a, as you said, a tool, i think, throughout human history to move us forward in so many different ways. It's something that has propelled us into new ways of being, new ways of thinking, and, when I think about it, without that process we would not be continuing to evolve and change and grow, and so I do think it's a foundational element to our humaneness our ability to take in, analyze and then put out, And I think that that's that process you know, both artistically, talking about leadership, or even just you know, living in this world that we are in every single day.

Bobby LeFebre

We utilize it, whether or not we are conscious of it or not constantly processing, constantly analyzing and then creating something from that, And I think that that's something that I value and really, really love about who we are and how we do.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Yeah, i love that you just brought it out to say that, and we ought to talk at some point about how we beat that notion of creativity, through the narrow lens of how we think about it, out of kids at an early age and how in the workplace we make it sound like this weird fluffy stuff as opposed to taking a step back and saying, no, this is who we are.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

As I think about creativity and innovation, I find myself thinking about how does? posing the question, what, if? how we get what we get, how we grow what we grow, how we do what we do and how we have evolved over time?

Bobby LeFebre

I think that question.

Bobby LeFebre

You know what if the root of that is curiosity And I think, when we stop thinking in a way that is curious and we stop behaving in a way that's curious, we find ourselves stagnant and we can't grow, we can't move, we can't innovate in a place of stagnation. And so when I think about what it means to be curious, there's an activeness attached to that. When we're curious, we're hungry for new ways of looking at things, of interrogating who we are, how we are and why, and that's not just the personal but the collective. We have to ask that, those questions of ourselves. But we also have to ask those questions about societies and systems and institutions and epistemologies and ways of knowing and being.

Bobby LeFebre

Because when we stop being curious, when we stop thinking about what, if what is, we lose sight of that visionary aspect of our being, and I think that it's applicable to every aspect of life. You know, and I try to look at the world, to curiousize every single day, whether that's through my artistic practice or my work in human services or my activism or my advocacy for arts and culture, cultural identity. All of these things have to be reimagined And imagination is the vehicle by which we get to those things, and if we don't activate those things, we're just boring.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

What's been in the way or what is in the way in organizations and in leadership. That beats the creativity out.

Bobby LeFebre

Yeah, we have a very binary way of looking at things in this world, unfortunately, and it's either this or that all the time, and all of the fun stuff lives in the middle of those two things.

Bobby LeFebre

And so I think that's part of the issue is the business world, leadership world. Often we look at things like creativity as not important. It's that old cliche of what you're looking for is what you'll see, and so if we're not looking to be in this space of growth and with the growth mindset, we're not going to see those things. And so I think that that's part of the issue is we have to change the lens by which we look at everything, or just recognize that this is creativity, this is art in action. The ways in which leaders can engage with their communities is, i think, one of collaboration, and I think that good leaders understand that, they understand communication, they're not afraid to explore, they're not afraid to learn from folks. I think if we look at leadership in a more circular way as opposed to a hierarchical one, that collaboration, that influence really disrupts these archaic ways of thinking and doing and being, and the more that we can do that, i think, the better we'll be.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

You know, the part that I will tie over my leadership journey that I found most frustrating is the inability to slow down to allow for the creative process to play out. I loved what you said about this binary, the either or. One of my favorites saying is life is lived in the gray. We actually don't live at the, at these other sorts of at the polls.

Creativity and Collective Thinking

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Life is lived in the gray and it is the fun part, but it requires leaders to be OK with that. How do you think America or the world or organizations arrived at this sort of shore of you know goals that have to be done in a year, or you know the quarterly earnings or these sorts of things which have this very linear, have linear implications but actually, or anything but.

Bobby LeFebre

Yeah, i mean, i think there's multiple things that come to mind right. One is like the inevitability of the world that we live in, the systems and institutions that guide us, everything from you know, the global to things like capitalism, that teach us, you know, certain ways of kind of showing up in the world, and I think sometimes we don't question where we're headed until it's too late. You know, we get to a point where paradigms are built and you know, systems are sort of in place and there's no questioning and we just kind of move along with that. And that's one thing that I think creative people always do is we always ask questions. And I think question asking is the, you know, the basis of all forward movement, because we're always, we're never happy. We're never happy where we're at, and it's not a bad thing. We're always just looking forward to what's possible.

Bobby LeFebre

So I think that we get ahead of ourselves sometimes and without folks questioning that status quo, things move and they don't change, and I think that that's the primary focus of creative people and artists. Really, i think artists, i think the professional world can learn a lot from the way the artists move, because we're always disrupting, you know, those things that are getting in the way of the potential that we can harness if we just give ourselves the opportunity to see those things. And I do believe that anyone can be an artist, anybody can create art, but I don't believe that everyone necessarily has the eyes of the heart or the spirit of a poet, and that thing is something that I think can be nurtured and developed. But I think that there's opportunity to again harness a collective approach to how we are, inclusive of what leadership practices might look like, and we need the super analytic folks analytical folks to really balance out the creative nature of folks that are just more concerned with generating ideas.

Bobby LeFebre

And there's a place in the middle that I think innovation happens And I think that folks can be both.

Bobby LeFebre

I think that the artist and the cultural worker, and the creative can also train themselves into a more regimented state of being And I think that that balance actually creates a lot of hope and a lot of balance where we're not always looked at as sort of these loose cannons that are just kind of out and about. Artists are actually very disciplined, whether that's recognized or not. Creative people are very disciplined, but I do believe that, as a leader, if we can model those things as leaders, it empowers the folks that we're leading to adopt those approaches to things, and that's where the growth happens, that's where the synergy happens, that's where the ideas come from, is when you can be excited in a room of people with different ideas and approaches to leadership or approaches to getting the work done. I really do believe that every person is a word in a sentence and that sentence creates meaning, and that meaning is derived from including different ways of being, and that's really, really important.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

So I know that, in addition to your incredible artistry and I will use it that way you too have another job. How do you pull creativity into your work at the Department of Human Services in Denver?

Bobby LeFebre

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's important. Our work, we work with the most vulnerable folks in the city And we have a team of folks that are out in community every day connecting with folks, providing resource navigation, and we work with immigrant and refugee communities, we work with veteran communities, We work with the most marginalized in the city, and so, to understand what it takes to reach those folks, it creates an environment where we have to ask big questions and we have to come together to figure out what the need is. And some of that is a recognition of where we've been And everything changes all the time, and I think that that's part of it is being nimble And we have to understand that new ideas are. It's paramount in the work that we do understanding what is happening.

Bobby LeFebre

What is research telling us? How do we combine what we're seeing and what we're feeling with what we know and create those environments and worlds for better ways? And so for me, i think of again the collaborative approach. For me is where the magic lives, when we're able to sit at a table and hear diverse perspectives and then create something from that that is either a policy, a procedure, a way forward, when people can see their own voice in that authorship. It empowers people to continue to communicate with you, to open up lines of communication. And again, i think sometimes we value hierarchy a little bit too much and we don't value collective thinking. We don't value collective brainstorming, and some of the most, i would say, progressive ways of implementing new things have come from that creative process of brainstorming.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

You know, what's interesting about what you said is I can remember years ago, through my beginning stages, go back to the late 90s, moving from a quilter to a quilt artist and then doing fiber art and joining a critique group, and there's something collectively beautiful about sitting at a table, as much as you're saying, and you bring your work First of all. it's kind of like there's some vulnerability to saying, hey, what do you think? And having the opportunity to see how it hits people, how they respond, what they feel like. boy, well, you're inviting me into a conversation that has real applicability to exactly what you're saying in terms of how organizations can not just thrive but can grow and evolve. So the requirements, as an artist, to actually put your stuff out there how do you navigate that and why is that important?

Bobby LeFebre

The way I see it is, we have an opportunity to influence what values are, what our values are, and through these questions and this process of exploration, i think that that's what it is. It's culture. It's culture and world building. If we can do that, if we can create culture and create a world that we are comfortable living inside of, that also shows others who may have different ideas of what that looks like, that. Hey, this approach may be something I'm not comfortable with, but it's actually working, and I think that people that live in an environment of where testing something out is a value, where failure may also be a value, that it's okay, that we're not going to win all the time. We're going to get it wrong sometimes. Let's celebrate some of those. Yes, and how do we come back from that? Do we sulk in it and do we live in that for so long that that becomes the norm, or do we get back up, ask new questions?

Bobby LeFebre

try new things and employ again creativity to usher us into the next phase of whatever that looks like. So I think so much of what I try to impart on the folks that I am in charge of leading is How do we create agreements and how do those agreements lead to values and how do we live those values and how does that then move into the mission and vision for the agency and the organization. All of those things are connected And so how do we influence those things? and realizing that it should always be a work in progress, we should always be moving and changing and thinking differently, and it's okay if our strategic plan changes and it's okay if our approach changes and it's okay if our leadership changes. But the work needs to be rooted in who we're serving and how we ultimately get to those places.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

You know, the thing that hit me as you were talking is the idea of happy accidents and risk taking, not as something that's scary, but imagine waking up in the morning saying I'm gonna risk some stuff today And viewing that through the other side of the coin, which is that's how you grow And that's also how you develop resilience, both as individuals or as organizations.

Bobby LeFebre

I think sometimes we focus on the results far too much as opposed to the process.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Sorry, and that's the CEO saying that.

Bobby LeFebre

Absolutely, you know the process again. The gray area going back process is gray area right.

Bobby LeFebre

And I think, if we're not so results driven, if we employ more of an emergent process, the idea that something requires pressure, that conflict is not necessarily a bad thing. right, conflict can be this beautiful garden that we grow things in. it doesn't have to be a war. A conflict can be the place where, you know, new ideas emerge And if we just allow ourselves to live in that space of a more emergent way, we can surprise ourselves and we can keep our minds open to the ways in which the left and the right brain work in tandem to solve our most complex issues.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Yeah, You know, it's also interesting to think about just a tiny story, how I even came to know that I could, quote, do art. It was just a very simple statement that had a actually a black women's retreat is attending and a woman who had thrown all of the Wall Street stuff away and gone to do her particular form of art. I was looking at her masks and she said why did you choose those? I said, well, I make quilts, but the quilts are your quilts, But what people talk about is the color. And she said you're an artist.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

I mean, we should be doing that in our organizations, because you just never know what's that one word. You're an artist, or I'm going to call you. Just say yes, taking the risk and showing somebody that person who is, quote, frontline or middle management, as opposed to thinking we have to have all the answers. It seems to me and hearing you talk that there's this way that you pull communities together. There's not this sense that everybody has to have suits and ties and degrees, Even within your team. Everybody has the opportunity to have voice heard.

Bobby LeFebre

Absolutely, And I think that one of the things I struggle with most is like new conversations of folks, whether that's in a personal way or in a professional way, in an artistic way, because when we meet people for the first time, one of the first questions we ask is so what do you do? And I really I start to sweat when that question happens because I don't want to monopolize time, But I think that one thing in the professional space that we often get wrong is the fact that we are only our titles or we are only jobs are we are complicated human beings who have diverse interests in multiple things, and so when I introduce myself I try to open that space up of saying yes, i'm a director, or yes, i'm a poet, yes, i'm this.

Bobby LeFebre

However, all of those things make up who I am, so it's hard. So when I introduce myself, often I'll say I'm a writer, performer and cultural worker, and then I'll go and sort of sub, you know include what that means, you know as a writer, i'm a poet, i'm a playwright.

Bobby LeFebre

As a performer, I'm an actor. As a cultural worker, i work in human services. I do all these things Because I think if we could start to change the ways in which we introduce ourselves, the ways in which we claim who we are in our wholeness and our complete complexity, as opposed to talk about our titles or a place of work, you know, it's not necessarily like who are we? Who are we really, how do you explain yourself to someone according to the things that you, that energize you, that make you who you are? right, i hosted a dinner series around radical imagination And the first question that I asked as part of that series was who are you, what is your work and who are your people?

Bobby LeFebre

And I really wanted to get at like who are you really Like when I was your title, what is your job? But like, who are you at your core? How do you see yourself? What makes you you? What is your work? I think is is a better question than what do you do, or you know, what is your profession, because your work can be multiple things. It can be your your job, it can be your creative work, it could be your community work, But I think the idea of what is your work and and how, having in phrasing that in a way that makes people think about it differently is interesting. And then you know who are your people, not necessarily like family or whatever, but who do you see as your community?

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

And h hat tmpact mpact ithat

Bobby LeFebre

And how does that impact who you are and how you show up? and what are the values of that community And how does And make you who you are?

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

You know, it's something that is just even four and a half years in it. Craig still astounds me almost daily, and that's not. dramatic is how we meet our patients where they are. whoever the we's are, it doesn't have to just be people in therapy, could be me, be me walking through the halls and just saying hello.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

And in ways that sometimes are very deliberate, but most of the time we're just sort of part of the vibe here to say what if, based on who you are, who you are, who are your people, what do you do Not do? but sometimes, what do you do Because? it is important from a livelihood perspective, and then to adapt our response to that call in a way that serves the mission of rehabilitation. It's just, it's it.

Bobby LeFebre

This place is, it's like creativity, every home Absolutely, and I think one thing about that process that you're outlining, i think, the most important part of that. I think sometimes especially because we use that phrase in human services a lot too in social work we meet people where they are, but sometimes we make assumptions about where people are without asking them where they're actually at, and so the conversation that needs to happen with that is I have, maybe, a data, informed perspective of who you are and where you are, but I would love to hear directly from you as to where you really are, so that I can meet you there. As far as what my job is to involve you in that conversation or to provide you with whatever it is that we are doing And so I think that that it's basic conversations, and I think we've actually gone away with that. I think we as a society, we are, we're pulling away from one another, and and you know, some of that is social and societal and some of that is, you know, circumstance.

The Importance of Context and Trust

Bobby LeFebre

We just, i won't say we're through a global pandemic, but we experienced one, and that definitely changed the way that we interact with one another. It changed our proximity to one another, it changed the way that we see ourselves and the people around us, and I think that we need to get back to some of those very simple human ways of interacting with one another, conversing with one another, getting to know one another, and, as a leader, that's one thing that I really try to do. You know, i want to know all of the people that I work with. I want to know, you know, not only what they do in their, in their, in their work, but like what drives them outside of that, because the more I understand that, the better I can support them in times of need. I could not agree with you more that we are impatient We've.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

There's something with the way that we've organized, the way that we're working, the notion of time. We've lost the ability to think about context, which I will tell you back to this notion of inclusion and belonging. There are people on this planet who are just context rich people. There are cultures that are context rich And then there are ones remember here a cultural anthropologist talk about this some years ago based on growing seasons and things like that, that you don't have the time to do that kind of sitting around talking things. And these are the things that then, in a lot of ways, have spawned the kinds of approaches in sort of modern business, to the way we do things. And I know I personally, as a leader, i know I can drive some people crazy because I am a context rich person. I need to understand what I'm swimming in in order to know how to help and to facilitate how we swim out or swim better in that context.

Bobby LeFebre

I was in New York and I was hanging out with a friend of mine who's an actor and I started my creative pursuits as an actor as well, and one thing that you do as an actor is you're constantly observing. You're waiting in line for your food somewhere and you're looking at the way that the person making your hot dog is moving and how they have a routine down and how they move and you kind of file that into your toolbox of characters. And I think that one thing when I'm hearing you talk about this thing is we're such an individualistic culture and that plays in the ways in which time we operate in time. When you catch up with someone for the first time in a long time, you ask them how they are. First thing they tell you is I'm busy, i'm busy, i'm so busy, i'm good, i'm busy, busy That's what we say. But what are we doing in that busyness And creativity needs? you need time to be creative.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

It needs to be creative. You need time.

Bobby LeFebre

You know and I think that that's part of my leadership journey has also taught me that if I am constantly moving and I don't take time to connect with people or to think or to analyze, i'm also modeling a behavior that the folks that are I'm in charge of leading are going to adopt, and, before you know it, we're all going to be so busy We're not going to take time to connect And there's a disconnect that happens in that. And so I think that, if we are able to, it's fine to be busy, if it's on purpose, if it's purposeful, if we have a plan right, if we have ideas about how we're spending our time and ensuring that we're maximizing that, as opposed to just being busy for busy's sake, because that's a it's not helpful.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Yeah, it's not helpful, it's become this crazy badge of honor. I wanted to go back to the notion of really saying who are you. It's another thing that is so inherent in what happens at Craig, because when our patients and families arrive at the door ready to start this next chapter of this journey, that is a true right or left turn in their life's walk, literally in some cases.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

There's a vulnerability that it's almost like all of the sort of illusions or the masks or things that you might put, you might wear in your day to day are gone when you find that mobility is different or your ability to think are different. And so there's this real shedding of the skins and the layers that allow us to really figure out how, to quote, meet people where they are. And, as you were saying that thing about meeting people where they are, where we often do it based on you know the typical things. I can look at your size, your weight, your height, your race, your ethnicity, your age, whatever it may be, and can say, okay, i can put you in a box, that all that goes, we have it. That's important, of course, absolutely As clinicians, that's important.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

But knowing who you are is critical to how I am going to engage with you in rehabilitation, because those journeys are different for everyone. I think it's the same in every single team member or employee. I have, too, that if we can get them to sort of wash away, to shed the labels, shed the layers and just be you and be and feel comfortable and risk it all and go to that space of vulnerability and share who you are. I think it helps how I show up in terms of how I engage with you.

Bobby LeFebre

Absolutely. What you're talking about is trust. When you boil that all down, trust enables and empowers so much. You can't be who you are if you don't really truly believe that the person you're engaging with genuinely understands that or might have the emotional intelligence to accept that. I think that that is the foundation of all good relationships. As cliche as that is, without trust, you really don't have anything. I think we need to focus on building that in a genuine way. If it's inauthentic, I think people know that too. Authenticity is something that I think is really really important in developing these relationships.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

It's interesting. you talk about trust in relationships. What I think I'm figuring out in this artist's journey is that I also have to trust the medium. I have to trust the medium and just not feel like I have to control it so much. That's when the cool stuff happens. Translate that to work Absolutely.

Bobby LeFebre

I think it goes back to the process. It's loving the idea that there's possibility. There's possibility in material, there's possibility in people, there's possibility in process. That's what we do. We put our hope in the idea that there is something on the other side of this. We may not need to assign value to that. Whatever it is, may just be. I think that we have a hard time sometimes when we can't clearly see the connection between what's in front of us and what will become of that Many pieces in front of us. sometimes you can't really see the final product, but I think that so much of leadership is that as well. It's taking a risk of taking these multiple pieces and creating something from that that may be new.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

I think people struggle in that There's this phrase that, when lost, any map will do.

Bobby LeFebre

How's that for creativity?

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

The whole story about these soldiers and I think, world War I who got lost in the mountains and were thought to have perished. And then someone found in their rucksack a map and they used that map to navigate themselves out of the snowstorm. Back in the hospital someone looked at the map. It was a map of the Pyrenees, not the Alps or the other way around, where they were.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

This idea of sense making, which does take a few things that I think are part of the artist's heart too, it's the creativity to think about how do you combine these disparate things and make a narrative that makes sense?

Bobby LeFebre

You're not making cray-cray. Don't make cray-cray.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Sure, sure, sure. But to make sense out of a thing, trusting the process enough to take the risk and say we're going to follow this because when lost and when it's not clear and often and that's the other thing that lives between the poles is a whole lot of ambiguity Somebody's got to be the person who's willing to take the risk and try to create an image, create a narrative or a framing and then start to take the steps.

Bobby LeFebre

What came to mind when you said that is that structure empowers freedom in a lot of ways. If you have a structure, even if it's loose, and you follow that, it will lead you somewhere. If you are brave enough to follow that through, there's something on the other side. But without it, poetry is very structured When you think about poetic device and form. we're not just out here spewing beautiful words.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Making words.

Bobby LeFebre

We definitely do that. But the craft of poetry is actually very structured. That structure empowers the beauty and the freedom that people then often experience, But without the knowledge of what it took to actually do that, it can be a very superficial exchange. You see the final product, you don't see everything that went into it, You don't see the hours of contemplating one word versus the next. That process, I think, is really really necessary in all areas of our operation.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

The other thing I think creativity brings into our leadership opportunities is the chance for play. It really begins to feel like play when you invite others in, because I suspect outside of work we often use and leverage creativity differently, but somehow we think we're supposed to leave that at the door when we step in.

Bobby LeFebre

Well, that's the thing We need to integrate all of these things more into our lives, because we don't play unless we take vacation. We don't take vacation because we're too busy working and we're afraid to go away from that. If there's a way for us, especially again as leaders, to incorporate these things into our meetings, into our all staffs, bring art and culture and play and creativity into those things and don't just make it the icebreaker.

Bobby LeFebre

Maybe allow for an entire staff retreat for play. When you have to explain that to the folks that are giving you money to do that, you tie that to the idea that this is going to create community. It's going to allow for new ways of seeing and being that. are they going to energize people in a way that creates the trust and the energy and the momentum to do the work in a way that maybe is a little different? We don't center those things Again. they're viewed as whimsical as opposed to a way to operationalize and harness the creativity in service to our work To the mission.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Yeah, i think that's my agenda around next time and say the icebreaker will be that work stuff and the rest of the time, exactly, we don't play.

Bobby LeFebre

We can try. We can try, maybe not all the time, but that's one approach. We can mix things up. I think that that also, i think, is a revolutionary way of seeing It's testing. It may not work, but why not try it? Why not try it with people? If it doesn't work, great, we can collectively decide that that doesn't work, but unless we try it, we don't know what the result's going to be.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

One is a perfect and beautiful way to end this time together. My prayer for leaders is that they lose the fear of bringing their whole selves in, because we do have a right way of thinking and a left way of thinking, and we desperately need both, but in particular in today's world, we need those right-oriented thinkers to come in and boldly ask the question what if? So, thank you for what you do Like ask in the what if? and all the other good questions that create community and connection.

Bobby LeFebre

Sure will Thank you very much.

The Power of Creativity and Inclusiveness

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

Thank you, bobby. I have lots of thoughts right now Probably the most resounding one that I know that we as leaders need to really really mess around in and swim around in, feel the discomfort of is getting comfortable with the use of this thing. That can feel elusive but, as we've talked about, is really part of how we were wired And that is this notion of using creativity to drive some very different outcomes. Some of what I think are the good things that can come from that, the benefits that can come from that, is that it does have the outcome or creates the opportunity for far more inclusiveness and belonging. Because if you think that everybody who walks through your walls are left-oriented thinkers or are predominantly left-oriented thinkers, you're leaving a ton of potential on the table. You're leaving a ton of potential at the door and you have people who walk into work and leave a significant portion of who they are in their car or on the bus or on their bike. And we need we desperately need those ideas, we need that energy, we need that passion to come through the door.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

So what do I think it takes as leaders, based on this beautiful conversation, we just had to show up that way. I think it takes a redefinition of risk. I think it takes a willingness to celebrate risk, to do something which I learned many years ago as part of my own creative journey, to celebrate the happy accident, to be able to adapt when things don't. And I've done it, which is what we are called to do as leaders all day long, because there is so little predictability in our work or in our world today.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

I think people are hungry for workplaces that are teeming with that kind of vibrancy, and my request, or my hope for you who are listening, is that you will take that big leap into the faith that the world can hold you and can hold a leader who shows up asking gigantic what if questions, are willing to sit with the tension that it will imbue for sure, and truly have the patience to say this is one of those go slow to go fast moments, to invest heavily in the beginning of any endeavor and to look at things through many, many lenses, to trust that when you're in these ambiguous waters which we are for sure now and, frankly, at any given epoch, always have been that any map will do and you've got great people around you Creatives, left oriented statisticians and analysts who put together in a room can draw you one heck of a map that could take you places when you are willing to risk it and be humble and set aside ego and create magic.

Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

So thank you for spending time with us today. Beautiful opportunity to hang with a truly beautiful soul, and I think that's what makes the world so special.

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Jandel Allen-Davis, MD

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