The Transformative Influence of Joy in Personal and Professional Life

Have you ever thought about the tremendous impact joy can have in your life? Wondered how you can harness your adversities, emerging stronger and even more successful? Join us as we take a deep dive into these fascinating topics with our guest, Ryan Heckman. From a humble background to an Olympic athlete, and now a successful business leader, Ryan's journey is nothing short of inspirational. He shares his unique insights from a 25-year long career in private equity and how he's used his experiences to shape the world positively.

We explore many different topics, including Ryan's worldview of leadership in private equity, his vision and creation of CiviCO, a foundation committed to leadership development across various sectors, and his stance on creating a safe space for dissent, a crucial element for organizational success. Prepare to be inspired and to gain a fresh perspective on life, success and happiness.

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Disclaimer: The content in this podcast is intended for general informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. No professional relationship is implied or otherwise established by reading this document. You should not use this information to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease without consulting with a qualified healthcare provider. Craig Hospital is not affiliated with resources that may be referenced in this podcast. Craig Hospital assumes no liability for any third-party material or for any action or inaction taken as a result of any content or any suggestions made in this podcast and should not be relied upon without independent investigation. The information on this page is a public service provided by Craig Hospital and in no way represents a recommendation or endorsement by Craig Hospital. Any use of this content by a corporation or other revenue-seeking or -generating organization is prohibited unless first approved by Craig Hospital. 

For more information, transcriptions and behind-the-scene photos, visit https://craighospital.org/unstoppable

Craig Hospital is a nationally recognized neurorehabilitation hospital and research center specialized in the care of individuals who have sustained a spinal cord injury (SCI) and/or a brain injury (BI). Located in Denver, Colorado, Craig Hospital is an independent, not-for-profit, 93-bed national center of excellence that has treated thousands of people with SCI and BI since 1956. Learn more: https://craighospital.org

Transcript

Jandel Allen-Davis 0:06

Welcome to Unstoppable at Craig, where we pull back the curtain on what makes healthy workplace cultures click and what happens when people are empowered to expand the boundaries of what is possible. We'll explore the perspectives of employees and leaders who have carte blanche to speak their truths, tell their stories and unlock uncommon ways of approaching challenges. I'm Dr. Jande l Allen- Davis, CEO and President of Craig Hospital, a world-renowned rehabilitation hospital that exclusively specializes in the neuro-rehabilitation and research of patients with spinal cord and brain injury. Join me as we learn from people who love what they do and what happens when fear doesn't stifle innovation. I could not be more excited to be here, getting to do this particular conversation with my dear, dear friend, Ryan Heckman, who I met in one of the most unusual of ways when Governor Hickenlooper was our governor and the two of us were exploring what public service would be like In different ways. I think we both figured out we could do a lot more from the private sector, but we'll get into that, Ryan, welcome. Thanks for making time.

Ryan Heckman 1:22

I am excited to be here, thanks.

Jandel Allen-Davis 1:24

It's been really great because you have had a really I'd say this may sound big but storied career but also such a dynamic and unique but in some ways that's what makes it storied and cool sort of path over time. I just love it. Just to sort of contextualize this great conversation we're going to have.

Ryan Heckman 1:43

If you just tell the story of Ryan Heckman, whichever chapters you want- I grew up in a really small town in Granby, colorado, which was small, and probably small then in 1982 and even smaller probably today. I just always felt this desire to get out and do something. I felt claustrophobic, I guess you could say on reflection, my only path out of there was through athletics, and skiing in particular. I just wanted so badly to go to the Olympics. It was just something that was inside of me and I can't explain why, but part of it was to get out of Granby. No offense, I progressed quickly and I was the youngest Olympian that represented not just my sport but the whole United States Olympic team.

Ryan Heckman 2:29

I was 16 in Albertville, france, and competed there, and I competed again in 94 in Lilihammer, norway. Then I wanted to go to college. The next Olympics were in 98, so it was a long time to wait for a third Olympic Games. I was really feeling kind of dumb. I didn't go to high school and, funny enough, when I decided to go to college I was like what's the best college in the United States? Someone said Stanford is. I sent my application in a Stanford University. I was 22, probably no, I was 21. I had no GED, no ACT, no SAT and really no GPA. I went to a ski academy and kind of got the pass, if you will passing grade. I got like a no letter from Stanford. That wasn't very long. It didn't even say we're going to keep your application on file. It was almost like a cease and desist order, like don't ever come to.

Ryan Heckman 3:32

California. I was pretty upset. Now I look back, I was just naive, right, but A for effort. And then I applied to my backup school, which was the University of Colorado, and I got denied. There I was like, oh my gosh, I am not going to be able to go to college, and what am I going to do? Never mind, I couldn't afford it. The librarian from my hometown went behind my back and went to the director of admissions at CU and he put me on probation. But let me in to CU. Not only did she call, but she and her husband paid for my entire college, which is pretty amazing.

Ryan Heckman 4:15

I get teary eyed when I think about that I did go to CU and worked my tail off, and then I wrote on an airplane with a fellow who owned Vale Resorts at the time, a guy named George Gillette you might have heard of him.

Ryan Heckman 4:30

He owned a number of assets all over the country and we wrote on an airplane when I was 16 to Zurich. We talked the whole flight and he said when you graduate from college, or if you graduate from college, give me a call, I'll give you a job. Little did I know that I was applying for a job in private equity, which recruits not only from the Ivy League but from the Ivy League MBA programs. I had an undergraduate degree from the University of Colorado and he gave me a job. As he said he would. I have now been investing in building companies. Now I'm celebrating my 25th year.

Jandel Allen-Davis 5:05

Wow, there's so many threads in that. I hear striving and longing in the I'm going to go to the Olympics in darn. If you didn't do it, you know we say I call them Godwinks, others call it luck, others would call it even privilege in some different ways. But just right place, right time, right people who saw in you what you might not have even been able to see in yourself, which brought about this remarkable journey that brings you to today.

Ryan Heckman 5:32

I think the sense of privilege is probably more about all the people that helped me along the way, you know versus the actual outcomes.

Jandel Allen-Davis 5:40

You know that, john Kennedy, to those who much has been given, much is expected. Talk about along the way a little bit. I mean you sort of glossed over the this idea in PE or private equity, the opportunities to build lots of companies and hopefully create some great dreams for people and, you know, make the world a better place. But I know there's lots of other cool ways you've made the world a better place too that are real important, I think, for those listening who are leaders, to understand that whole. How are you playing in the space of much is expected of you?

Ryan Heckman 6:11

That's actually a pretty easy question to answer. I would start with I mentioned that the librarian paid for my college and Colorado Mountain College in Steamboat, where I competed and where Jane and Ed Hill lived who paid? For my college. They had run out of money and they were building an auditorium to serve the community and the students that went to school. So I paid to build the auditorium in their name and that felt divine.

Jandel Allen-Davis 6:45

Well, I can see on your face it still feels divine.

Ryan Heckman 6:49

It felt great and that kind of, you know, like anything. You kind of get that appetizer, that spark, that kind of rush of oh, that feels good, you know. And I had not experienced that yet. And so the next thing I did was I gave enough money to send 50 students through community college, and it so happens that most of the community colleges in the state are located in places like Gramby you know whether you're talking places like Sterling, colorado, or Rangeley, colorado.

Ryan Heckman 7:27

And then I was thinking about, like what else could I do? And so I started a leadership development foundation called Civico. It provides leadership and training and development to the for-profit, the non-for-profit and public service employees and leaders, and we do that work all over the state and it's really meant to help people move from career aspirations to becoming a community leader, like you, jendell, and George Sparks and many of the folks that you have on this podcast. And so that work has really consumed me over the last 10 years and has been maybe even better than those first two examples I gave, because it's more, I guess it has more legs to it.

Jandel Allen-Davis 8:15

It's not like a one and done kind of thing.

Ryan Heckman 8:18

Yeah, exactly, exactly so that work has been great and I say that it's given me a lot more than I've given it. The work that I get to do in the community has given me a particular lens to say that we can do private equity much differently. I can do it differently and I can do it in service to others as opposed to being a profiteer, if you will.

Jandel Allen-Davis 8:39

You know, I think you know, I serve on the Federal Reserve Bank Board and I said the story in healthcare today is mergers, acquisitions, divorces and PE. And it's at least in Colorado, for sure we're in some. I mean, you can get whiplash watching the changes that are happening in the market and the reality is we don't talk about M&A as the evil, whatever, but there's a good and a bad side to that.

Jandel Allen-Davis 9:02

There's a good side to that time where you know it's time to sort of separate, as we're seeing in a couple of big systems here in town, and I'd love to have both sides of PE.

Ryan Heckman 9:11

You know, to say private equity is bad is a little bit like saying banking is bad or getting a loan for your house or a mortgage is bad. It's just private equity is a source of capital. At the end of the day it's an enabler, and if you don't have enough debt or your own money, you got to get it from somebody.

Ryan Heckman 9:29

So in essence, a private equity fund is like a lender or a bank and you're going to them for a loan that's probably due in five years and with that loan, because it's very risky the private equity firm wants to say and how the money is spent. Now the problem with private equity is oftentimes private equity professionals have never run a business and so they want to have say on things that they're not competent to opine upon. And that's where it probably gets a lot of the bad rap is kind of this ivory tower. You know backseat driving profiteer, and so you know it's very easy, I think, to rip on the industry. But I actually don't think it's the function. I think the function is what it is.

Jandel Allen-Davis 10:17

We did a podcast some couple back maybe on polarities, you know, and I sometimes find myself in the midst of that and it's really hard as a physician to be in the midst of that where you've got the tension between a business to run and we don't like to think about health care that way. But it is, and this amazing, wonderful thing we get to do and it is the sacred trust of taking care of people who need us in a way that nobody wakes up in the morning saying I think I want to be a patient and I've said I don't have, in this role, the luxury of saying one's more important than the other. We've got to balance that. The care experience, the quality, got to look at all the things that are going on externally. We should not be ashamed or embarrassed about profits. We should be able to say it.

Jandel Allen-Davis 11:02

Or, in the case of nonprofits, we talk about margins, although it's still profits. It's just what happens with them. And is there the opportunity to raise all boats, including what shareholder value looks like, if we think differently around the products we sell, the people who help us deliver those products and the people who are upstream, providing all the things we need to deliver the product, so I know it's doable. I get to see it every day in this place called Craig Hospital in some ways that I never would have dreamed possible. So, yeah, I think that you're hitting on something really big. And talking about the sitting at the table, I suspect fighting, not in any conflict as part of how you balance those two polls, but I'd say healthy conflict based on values and principles. Talk about yours.

Ryan Heckman 11:56

Yeah, I wonder. I think a lot of careers, sadly, have been maybe ruined or people have maybe been even terminated from their organizations for what they say, but a lot of more organizations, I think, have been ruined because of what people don't say. Yes, right, there's this weird thing where it takes a lot of courage to be disagreeable as an individual and if you're in an organization that doesn't incentivize that, then the organization gets the detriment over time. I mean, some of the worst organizations I've seen because that's what I do for a living is buy great organizations and for every one I buy there's probably 20 that we don't. Well, those other 19, I would say one of the common traits of a bad organization is all the things that aren't said in a meeting and all the things that are said outside of the meeting, that's, the meetings outside of the meeting.

Ryan Heckman 12:59

As leaders, I think creating that safe environment, as you said, to encourage dissent, is kind of one of those secret sauces that's right under our nose but, like a lot of things, is easier to say but harder to do. You know, I mean there's a lot of social pressure on employees and leadership teams to be liked. I mean I think it's safe to say that one of our incentives when we come to work is to get paid for the work we do and we like to be respected and appreciated and sometimes if you're disagreeable you lose the opportunity to be liked and I don't think any of us like to feel that way. So you know, I always look up to leaders who kind of come at discussions like we're describing, with this great sense of curiosity and respect for the dissenters view and actually like reward people for those dissents. Now it doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

Jandel Allen-Davis 13:56

Right. You know, when people do that, team members here do that, I thank them and they know my door is open. They can say anything to me and, in fact, someone reminded me of something that we hadn't done and it's work that we have to do. So there's a scramble at the end of the week to get something out and to get a thank you back from the team members saying it's just so nice to be able to raise issues with leadership and have them, you know, answered and to be not just responded to okay, okay, but to do something about it, and I think you actually end up my belief is you end up creating more engagement and more people who are going to actually keep your butt out of trouble, if you want to know the truth, because there's somebody somewhere.

Jandel Allen-Davis 14:39

We learned this in patient safety work some years ago for Kaiser Permanente, and I mean to think that airplanes literally have fallen out of the sky because people were afraid to say you're running out of gas. I mean, and those are the stories from you know, sort of the, the airline industry, of all that, as they really started viewing themselves as an ultra safe industry, the big things they had to do weren't the technology. It was really the stuff. It was this ability to speak your truth to anybody to stop the line. There's this. His name was professor root. I saw that on the slide. When armed with the same information, we're likely to come to the same conclusions oh yeah, that's a good one and so and I love that his name was root- get to the root cause.

Jandel Allen-Davis 15:21

And there you go. So just really a beautiful way of putting it.

Ryan Heckman 15:25

Jendale, who I find, when I have a dissenting view, there's a certain amount of courage that someone has to have to give the dissenting view. But then there's the other side, which is, as a leader, I feel uncomfortable or, I guess, like fearful I'm going to discourage them if I don't agree or I don't move forward with the path that they've recommended. That might be in contrast to the one that that I think is right. What is your inner voice when you, when you know someone is pounding the table on something you just know isn't right, but you want to encourage this willingness to engage in a healthy dialogue, but you know you're going to say no. How do you get the courage to say it in a way, and do you ever feel like you hurt someone's feelings when you don't take their input?

Jandel Allen-Davis 16:18

well I I frequently feel like I hurt their feelings, but I think one of the things that you mentioned that's important is that you ask lots of questions, you stay in a space of curiosity. Don't let yourself get hijacked by the emotion that they're bringing, because then that it actually is a distraction as opposed to something that's very helpful. I also think that there are great ideas that come along, or great suggestions, or great, in this case, motions or ways of directions that you should take a place that really are about timing and framing. I'm going to give you some feedback in a positive way.

Jandel Allen-Davis 16:52

You also, despite how much it sucks to have to be that no, we are not going that way. You model leadership, courage, because there's sometimes that we're the only ones who can make the decision right and after a ton of input, sometimes we have to say this isn't a direction we're going and it's no fun, because we do worry about being liked and we do worry about I mean the other one is we were about is what if we're wrong? And it couldn't happen that you're wrong but son comes up?

Ryan Heckman 17:19

tomorrow.

Ryan Heckman 17:20

I do want to touch on a technique that I saw one of our CEOs at a really cool company called pics health, based out of Tucson.

Ryan Heckman 17:29

Her name is Cindy Jordan and she's a thought leader in the field of loneliness and social isolation, and she has a, an app that gets delivered to patient populations all over the country on behalf of payers.

Ryan Heckman 17:44

She actually created a culture committee where she identified there were probably seven or eight of them that were super important and weren't necessarily at the high end of the org chart and, as it as it happened, there were a couple at the high end of the org chart and a couple is a low end and a whole bunch of people in the middle, and what she uses them to do is that when she has a big decision to make, she gets their input and they talk about it, and then she takes that input into consideration.

Ryan Heckman 18:17

She asks them questions like if we're going to do this, how would it be best received in the organization you know, and so it gives her, like this, very deliberate sounding board, and then a side benefit is a sales force, if you will, for change. Yes, and the reality is that you need a sales force within your organization at all levels to to champion and not change and what she's done through this culture club is created a sales force for her to get a bunch of stuff done that may or may not have been as popular without that sales force you know it's beautiful, but that is a few things.

Jandel Allen-Davis 18:51

One you talk about influence. Which leadership? I say leadership is basically this idea of using influence to get stuff done. So beautiful example of using influence and using those informal networks. Talk about strategic, as I'll get out. You talk about lifting others up, which I think is one of the other really important things we do the skills that she is growing and those people who don't have titles that'll either serve that organization or they'll go on to serve others just through, first of all. I mean when you think about Gillette saying call me when you're through college, or the angels, when I think about that have been in my life along the way. They see in us things we can't see in ourselves. When the call comes to do x, y, z.

Jandel Allen-Davis 19:39

I remember when jack cokron, who's the executive medical director no, he wasn't at the time, his plastic surgeon was on the board of the med group called me and he knew who I was I'm just ob g y n doing what I do, which was working super hard, and said you need to run for the board of the Permanente medical group. It's like I knew his name. I knew you know my little. He's like very important and, uh, he said me, and not only did I run with that sort of little tiny thing, go for it, but ultimately chaired the board of the medical group for a time, and then all these other sorts of opportunities come along. So there's also that. And out of all of the things she gave, more than she got. Yeah, she got her message out. You get the. You know that. You use your informal networks, but what she gave those people around that sense of I matter, I am significant, my contributions mean something and I'm going to say much better things about this organization outside of this room because of the opportunities given. That's just that's leadership in my view. That's real leadership and I love to do that here.

Jandel Allen-Davis 20:45

I do. I actually like dissenters, I don't like cynics and I remember the phrase you know encourage dissension but challenge cynicism. You really should and you can and you can see it. You know the difference. But I say bring it, I get better because of it. And it takes the ability to to call yourself. If you dumb, you know what, if you miss the thing, if someone tells you or you know at 2 30 in the morning, say thank God. People know that I cannot possibly see, know, hear or do everything. And then we have to remember that we can't see, know, do or hear everything, and that we it is a massive village that allows us to build great organizations.

Ryan Heckman 21:27

Well, and behind every one vocal cynic, there's probably at least 10 to 20 that just don't have the courage or the guts to say it. Yeah, and so you know. It's sort of like the canary in the mine.

Jandel Allen-Davis 21:40

You know, I could be the Dan Ritchie of healthcare. Just keep working, and working, and working, even though my husband would prefer I didn't, because I love work. It fills me up in ways that are equal to the things and the passions I pursue outside of work, and I feel like even on the toughest days, where I am unhappy, there's still so many moments of joy. So how do you think about this, this idea of what seems like? How can you be joyful and unhappy? How do you think through those two things?

Ryan Heckman 22:14

Well, there's a great book right now out there by David Brooks, called the Second Mountain.

Jandel Allen-Davis 22:19

Oh yes, have you read that one? Yes, yes, I love David Brooks. David Brooks is awesome.

Ryan Heckman 22:23

He's got a real way with words. He has a whole chapter devoted to the word joyful, and his basic thesis is that happiness is a reaction to something that's you know good, and that we strive to get as many good things as we can so that we're otherwise happy. And it's a rather diminishing way of looking at the world, because you're waiting, you're hoping good stuff happens to you when you wake up in the morning. Joy, on the other hand, is a state of mind, it's a state of being, it's in your control. Most importantly, when you wake up in the morning, it's like am I gonna be full of joy today and am I gonna share that with other people? I think it might be like the most.

Ryan Heckman 23:09

If I had to pick one characteristic that has the biggest return on investment or effort, I would say it's choosing to be joyful when you wake up in the morning. It just so happens that spouses otherwise prefer to be with a joyful spouse. It so happens that employees like to be in a joyful organization. It so happens that people wanna do business with joyful people. When you're recruiting, it's important and at the end of the day, the joy you give ends up being the joy you receive from other people and if you give it you'll get it in return and David Brooks does a wonderful job of talking about the state of mind part of this and that we can all choose to be joyful, but we don't get to choose good things to happen to us so that we're happy.

Ryan Heckman 24:05

And so when I think about a joyful organization, I was taught that there's three things that most employees want from their organizations that produce a joyful one, and one is real relationships, connection, and not over football necessarily, although that's fun to talk about. What connection means in this context is knowing that what matters to Jen Dell matters to Ryan and that you know that Jen Dell, like what matters to you, matters to me and vice versa. When I know that what matters to me matters to you, that is the ultimate form of a relationship and a connection, and that's the organizational level as well as the interpersonal level, so that we could call disconnection or relationships. The second one is helping everyone in the organization feel like they had an impact. You know, when they go home at night and they're driving home, they can think of one thing that they did that left an imprint on the day, whatever that may be, and that they're seen for it, that they're recognized for that impact.

Ryan Heckman 25:16

I think that's a big one. And the third one is, you know, personal development. Does the organization you know give chances to me to grow? In other words, am I a better version of myself every year that I'm at Craig Hospital?

Ryan Heckman 25:33

Now you get to cheat a little bit on this one, jen Dell because, your patients and I'm sure they're caregivers love on your team a lot, but that's unique. Well, I should also add the tough part of that is it's long hours and tough duty what your employees do, but they get a lot of emotional juice out of it. It's not so in other industries, and so finding ways to give employees a chance to become better versions of themselves when they're at your organization, If you can hit all three of these things connection and real relationships, helping people feel like and be recognized for the impact that they have every day at all levels of your work chart.

Jandel Allen-Davis 26:13

And then the third one Opportunity for growth.

Ryan Heckman 26:15

Growth. And if you hit those three things, very likely you're gonna have less turnover and perhaps more competency year in and year out with your workforce.

Jandel Allen-Davis 26:27

The other thing I you probably don't know, but on this whole idea of impact, relationship and connection, the opportunity for growth, we actually looked at that kind of data at KP because we had from our employees. We also had because we care for right. I mean, it's a healthcare system. So we knew not to by name or anything but new healthcare utilization and we also did health and wellbeing. We did this in the environment of I can't remember the name of the survey, but it was really looking at those a number of dimensions of wellbeing and the places that had a higher sense of wellbeing also had higher employee engagement in that and, interestingly, lower healthcare utilization.

Ryan Heckman 27:09

Wow.

Jandel Allen-Davis 27:10

So we have way more. Those are those unseen ways that toxic workplaces literally eat at our physiology, eat at our health, eat out our sense of well-being. So it all does tie together and it's. I mean. I think people can think of this word joy through mushy lenses, but I don't think of it way. I walk around this hospital and I see joy. I don't always see happiness. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says I think I want to go to Craig.

Ryan Heckman 27:42

Nobody. I'm touching on a big moment here in this conversation to me, because there may be a there may not be a more profound laboratory for testing whether you can be joyful and unhappy at the same time than at Craig Hospital.

Jandel Allen-Davis 28:03

All right, it is a huge amen to that. And here's the thing, though, that I've taken it as I've thought about this, because I do see gratitude. I mean, you sort of think, well, what does joy look like in action? There's a sense of gratitude, there's a sense of optimism, a sense where I can bring my whole self into work, a sense where I'm seen and can see you, a sense that, at the end of the day, I can check a few boxes most days about what I actually might have accomplished in this impact space, and that there was the opportunity to stop and say, yeah, how's that going with that? Like, I know you well enough to know those little facts about people that allow them gosh, they know that it's like, yeah, and I don't know it in a manipulative way. I know it because I'm deeply interested and care about the people I care about.

Jandel Allen-Davis 28:52

Well, the same thing happens with their patients. I mean, books come here after some catastrophic, horrible accidents, with some of the stories that were just what sense does this make? And yet that's what I get to see that resilience, the sense of hope on steroids and people able to say I can move this. Today, I was able to get these words out. Today, I am coming to terms with what are going to be limitations and how to overcome them. I mean, we give people hope, so, but here's the thing I said well, why can't? How would you bottle that and give that to an acute care hospital, an emergency room physician, nurse, folks working in ORs, folks working on medical surgical floors?

Jandel Allen-Davis 29:37

What, effectively, we're all here to do is to relieve suffering. We're just relieving suffering and that appendectomy don't compare an appendectomy to a spinal cord injury, Don't. In both cases, what is comparable is the fact that we're here to relieve suffering and there's great joy in being able to say I relieve suffering. There's great joy and I delivered a baby today. There's really great joy in that. There's great joy in standing in an infusion center and treating cancer chemotherapy. There's great joy when those patients, when they finish those rounds of therapy which has become a thing now in these infusion centers, where there's a big sort of dancing off into the moonlight or sunset or sunrise as that last treatment, and if we can, as healthcare people, get back to that why Because that is the why of this work, at least for me Then it's a good day. They may not all be happy, they will be filled with conflict. From time to time they will be filled with trying to figure out how you balance these poles, these tensions. It's just about remembering who we serve.

Ryan Heckman 30:40

Wow, thanks for your joyful leadership.

Jandel Allen-Davis 30:43

Oh, that was a very joyful moment. I just that, without lunch. I'd say, yeah, well, I think we might be sort of getting down to the end of our time together. And, as you think about it, if there's just one thing that you've learned through all of your experiences, what would it be?

Choosing Joy, Responding to Adversity

Ryan Heckman 31:03

I'll answer it in two different ways. One is the difference between a career and a vocation, and the way you show up every day. When you have committed yourself to a vocation, I think, means that you're not necessarily trying to climb the ladder. You're in service to others and you're trying to add value and be significant to other people. I think that's a big choice we all have to make when we show up at work. I think it also says something about where you are in your learning journey. I mean, one of the things I'm most proud about is that I'm learning at a much faster pace now than when I started my career 25 years ago, and that's, I think, a byproduct of my dedication to the craft. What I do and why I do it, and who I do it for these are really important questions. I wasn't always that way. I probably had my awakening, if you will, through some big failures, oftentimes Over time. Those failures helped me realize that there is a better way to live than just trying to climb the ladder every day. That would be one thing. The second one is just that choice. We already talked about that.

Ryan Heckman 32:29

The one thing you can control every day is whether you're going to show up joyful or not and shine that joy on other people. I think that you can't control the outcomes, but by God you can. You literally can control being joyful or not. It's like a choice, and the last one would just be the disappointments in life. If you've ever read the book the Prophet, there's a chapter on holding joy and sorrow in both hands every day and realizing that life is really sloppy and yucky at times and not getting too bummed out when it's not going well, but also not getting too full of yourself when things are good. Like it's holding both joy and sorrow in equal weight in both hands on a day to day, a month to month, year to year basis, and just realizing that part of the human condition, part of being a human, is having a whole bunch of bad stuff happen to you.

Ryan Heckman 33:27

I would dare say that when I look at the most successful people, it's not how they got their success or their wins, it's how did they respond to the adversity? How do you do better in this world? I don't think it's by winning better. I think it's by losing better, Somehow figuring out how to respond to bad things happening to you and the adversity. If you can get really good at that. I think that might be part of the ultimate way of doing well in this world. I really believe that.

Jandel Allen-Davis 34:02

Well, what an incredible full circle. Back to what I witnessed in the hospital. In one phrase which I've heard is that I would not want to go back to who I was before I was injured, because there's lots of ways to respond to these injuries. What we have the capacity to figure out about ourselves in facing adversity is pretty transformational, or has the ability to do that, and not just to transform your life. But others.

Jandel Allen-Davis 34:29

I was sitting here talking that last little bit and thinking you know what a gift it is to have so many amazing people in my life, that you know you go back to any one of the dark periods, and there were plenty growing up in my life that I never would have thought that I'd have the opportunity to meet so many great people and do such wonderful work in service to others. That's why I work as hard as I do, because it's a gift and you're a poor husband.

Ryan Heckman 34:57

You are going to Dan Richie him. I'm going to Dan Richie the poor guy. I'm sure he knew that when you got married.

Jandel Allen-Davis 35:02

I'll make sure he listens to this unstoppable episode because he'll hear at the end dude, I kind of like to work, I kind of like the work it's, I like to garden, I like to do the art, I like to do all the other wonderful things I do outside of this place, but I love service and the chance to meet and connect with people doing great things, which you are doing. So keep surprising us. You're a model to so many. Who, again, who, much has been given and just to remind them, much is expected. So, thank you.

Ryan Heckman 35:33

My pleasure and it's been a wonderful, wonderful opportunity.

Jandel Allen-Davis 35:40

In reflecting on this time together, I'm once again struck by how many absolutely incredible leaders we are blessed to have in Colorado doing work, big and small. But if there's a theme that runs throughout the work is this it's this idea of having the opportunity to give back and to do your best and to dream big and actually to dream bigger than in ways that you didn't even think possible. You know, starting this conversation with Ryan Hickman, my dear friend, who comes from pretty humble beginnings and has managed to not just thread a needle but to do great work and also still view his accountability and responsibility and desire to give back, whether it's repaying in a really amazing way, paying it forward the folks who provide a college education for him, or giving college tuition for 50 kids to be able to finish community college, and this out of financial benefits that he received that could easily have been in his pocket and stayed in his pocket that he chose to do these really big ideas, big ways of giving back, is really remarkable. So starting there and then being able to say that the things that employees, our team members, want more than anything else is the ability to know that they are having an impact, that the fact that they came to work, that they showed up, made a difference, and our accountability and responsibility to make sure that they know that that they had an opportunity to grow and develop and stretch and be their best selves. Ryan's story also beautifully articulates how you can, in service to doing a work, which is in the case of private equity. Providing a funding stream can turn that around, and it doesn't have to be a negative that. It really is about how you choose to show up and how you choose to engage in the work.

Jandel Allen-Davis 37:47

I so appreciated his courage and being able to call out the parts of his chosen profession that aren't going well or that are the ugly parts of it. And we have those in healthcare and we have those in banking and we have those in construction. We have those everywhere. And in the end, what he said which I think is just amazingly important and there was a clarity about that that we all can embody as this notion of choosing.

Jandel Allen-Davis 38:16

You can choose to do good or choose to be bad or not do good. You can choose to put your employees and those you serve first, or you can choose another way, but probably the most important thing I heard today is that you can choose joy, and if there's anything I think I've learned over this long, long career and hope to continue for a lot more years is that I always choose joy, and that motivates me and carries me through tough days and has me soaring through the good ones and there's far more of those than there are the tough days and that's in no small part because I have chosen to live a certain way, and I hope you, as leaders, to feel the encouragement that you can do it too. So I want to thank you once again for spending some time with us on the Unstoppable at Craig podcast. This is Janelle Allen Davis, and until next time, be well and choose joy.