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Business Blasphemy
Sarah Khan, Business Advisor and Leadership Consultant, is calling B.S. on the hustle-focused status quo of business and entrepreneurship, and getting real about what it takes to grow a business or career and NOT become a statistic. In each episode, Sarah helps navigate the rampant B.S. that permeates business strategy, marketing, operations, and mindset that has business owners hustling and pivoting themselves into burnout. She cuts through the noise and gives you guidance on how to view the status quo with a more discerning eye. If you're ready for success without the B.S., buckle up for hard truths, fun rants, terrible puns and (more than) the occasional curse word.
Business Blasphemy
EP84: Podcast Like a Pro: Award-Winning Podcast Secrets with Bethany Hawkins
In this episode, we dive deep into the world of podcasting with Bethany Hawkins, founder of Crackers in Soup.
Bethany shares her journey from criminal justice to podcast production, the importance of leadership, and how being an extroverted introvert shapes her unique approach. She discusses the challenges of podcasting, the importance of knowing your bandwidth and purpose, and why not all clients or money are worth the headache.
This conversation is packed with valuable insights on storytelling, leadership, and how to create a podcast that truly resonates with your audience.
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The Business Blasphemy Podcast is sponsored by Corporate Rehab® Strategic Consulting.
Welcome to the Business Blasphemy Podcast, where we question the sacred truths of the online business space and the reverence with which they're held. I'm your host, sarah Khan speaker, strategic consultant and BS busting badass. Join me each week as we challenge the norms, trends and overall bullshit status quo of entrepreneurship to uncover what it really takes to build the business that you want to build in a way that honors you, your life and your vision for what's possible, and maybe piss off a few gurus along the way. So if you're ready to commit business blasphemy, let's do it. Hello, hello blasphemers, welcome back. I am so pleased to have my sister from another misda, bethany Hawkins, is joining us today.
Speaker 1:Bethany is a seasoned professional with over 18 years of corporate experience. All of us awesome people come from corporate and then we tear it up in the entrepreneurial space. She serves as the CEO and founder of Crackers in Soup LLC. As a Black woman who understands the challenges of not being heard, bethany's mission is to amplify historically underrepresented voices through their podcast and I am so happy to have her here because that is such an important piece about what I want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Under her leadership, crackers and Soup has produced an extensive portfolio of podcast episodes, including the award-winning Chatting Over Chowder and Sis Please. The company has received numerous award nominations. Over chowder and cis please. The company has received numerous award nominations, solidifying its reputation in the industry. Bethany's expertise has led her to speaking engagements at prestigious events such as PodFest, afros and Audio ShePodcast and the Podcast Academy. Her insights have earned her the title of a thought leader and she's served as a judge for esteemed podcasting award shows like the Amby's and Black Podcasters Awards. Recognizing the importance of knowledge sharing in building generational wealth, bethany now offers mentorship and coaching programs for podcast service providers, drawing from her decades of business experience and podcasting expertise. Bethany welcome.
Speaker 2:I need to keep that on record and then wake up every morning with you reading my bio.
Speaker 1:I will happily. Do you like an ASMR style bio reading?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what I'm talking about, or I'm just going to get you a green card. We're going to get married, I'm going to get you a green card, and then you could just whisper that to me in the morning. Every day I love it Okay, so I.
Speaker 1:I want to know first Okay, first of all, because I have been wanting to ask you this for a long time Is this the right forum to ask you to tell us a little bit about the name of the funny crackers in soup? I've always wanted to know where that came from.
Speaker 2:We never told you you the name of Crackers and Soup and how it came to fruition. No Well, this is the perfect forum for such a story. Everybody get their blankets and nuzzle in and come in close. So when I had decided that I was leaving the corporate world, I was wrestling with what to name my company, because I knew that I wanted to go into podcasting, but I didn't know the vernacular, I didn't know the terminology, I didn't know the verbiage and I didn't want to name the company after myself because Bethany Hawkins, like who the hell is that? Who would that be? Big haired, big boobed, big black woman? Like who is that?
Speaker 2:So I was struggling so hard and one day my daughter was going through her soup phase. I mean, this was five years ago. So she was like mama, can I have soup? Can I have soup? And I was like look, child, you're going to have some soup, but you ate all of the crackers. There's no crackers to be found anywhere in Northern Massachusetts because you eat them all. So you can have the soup, but we don't have any crackers. And she was like well, the crackers make it better. And I was like bing, bing, bing, bing. So essentially, the idea for crackers, and soup is your podcast is the soup, and then we have the crackers that just come in and make it better. I love that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't know what I was expecting, but that was not it, but that's like the perfect story. Oh, my gosh and my, my little one's going through a soup phase now too, but it's wild, it's crazy. She don't want no crackers, though, like she doesn't want a single speck of nothing in it, so I have to like hide the spices. It's gonna be basically broth, like just buy me chicken broth, I'm good to go. Oh, oh, I love that. That is really unique and that's like it's a memorable. It's such a memorable thing, right, and actually this is the perfect segue, like stories are so integral to how we connect with people, and stories and podcasts and let's just kind of I want to jump ahead because I'm very excited, but tell me a little bit about your villain origin story, like how did you come to entrepreneurship and then why podcasting?
Speaker 2:So I am innately nosy and I was born nosy. I will die nosy. When I was little, I hadn't spoken until I was about four years old, and I was born in the 70s. Don't let the good skin fool you I was born in the 1900s.
Speaker 1:Gen X unite.
Speaker 2:And back in the day there was this term called autism, but it wasn't really as pronounced or discovered as it is now. So when I was four, my pediatrician at the time he was very ahead of his time and he had said to my mother she hasn't spoken, she's four, she may have autism, but let's just give her her time, let's just see what happens. And he was absolutely correct. I didn't need to speak. I was an observer. I was just watching everything. I liked to play by myself because as much as people think I'm an extrovert, I am the most extroverted introvert you will ever meet by being by myself. That is how I regain my energy. That is how I regain my understanding and processing of what's happening. I'll be at whatever it is. It could be something like a football game, or it could be something like a court case. Whatever it is, I just need time to process and just think about it and resonate a little bit. Right? So you know, I eventually talked, like clearly I'm talking to you right now. I spoke. I don't have autism. I do have things that have letters attached and medication associated with it. Let's not get it twisted, but it's not autism. I have OCD, I have depression and I am convinced I have ADHD, even though I was never officially officially diagnosed. I was diagnosed with OCD and depression was never officially officially diagnosed. I was diagnosed with OCD and depression.
Speaker 2:But anywho, when I got into criminal justice it was because I was nosy. I had a boyfriend at the time who was not very law abiding and he was getting into all of these troubles and ballyhoo and tomfoolery and I couldn't figure out for the life of me why he was doing the things that he was doing and he had a different home life than I did and that came into a lot of play. So I wanted to know what the system was that he was a part of as a juvenile that was going through the criminal process. So that's how I started my criminal justice experience. So I went to college, I got my degree in criminal justice, minor in psychology, and then I got my paralegal service certification. I stayed with the criminal justice system for 18 and a half years and then I was like okay, I'm done now. Thank you for playing CJ. I paid my student loans in full and I was like peace out. I had a really great boss.
Speaker 2:However, I experienced a lot of microaggressions. I worked in New Hampshire, where the 96% of the population is white Caucasian from the island of Caucasus, and I was in the hierarchy of people. I was the third, so it was the DA, the deputy DA and then it was myself. So I had to go before board of commissioners, I had to ask for positions, I had to work with million dollar budgets, I worked with finance and human resources and all of the people.
Speaker 2:You were fancy, I was a fancy girl and in those experiences the majority of them were great, and I then had to say to the individuals that is inappropriate and here's why it's inappropriate. So I just got sick of constantly having to endure that. Right, and I was introduced by a former co-worker and still a friend, to podcasts and LaVar Burton. Lavar Burton who, if anybody doesn't know, he has a podcast called LaVar Burton Reads, and she knows my obsession with LaVar Burton. I'm convinced he's my uncle. He just owes me 46 birthday presents.
Speaker 2:So she put the podcast on my phone, I started listening to it and I binged it. So then, as you know, with podcasts it goes into like her podcast. So I started listening to women who looked like me, who had experiences like me, share how they created an entrepreneurial journey, right, and I was like I want to create a business, I want to do that myself and I want to give women who are stuck in that cubicle thinking that they were alone, a voice in their ear, a friend, to tell them you're not alone. I've had this experience too.
Speaker 2:I'm here, with you and that's what I did. And literally five years later, here we are. Award winning podcast production.
Speaker 1:That's, that's fantastic, Like I, to have like found your thing so quickly and then to excel at it. I was going to give you props because that is like that's phenomenal, Thank you.
Speaker 2:There really is no choice, because mama got a mortgage, you know, I got three kids, I got a hedgehog, so it's like I am on kind of bougie, so I'm unwilling to be homeless or live in my car, right, right, and you know what you're going to do.
Speaker 1:You got to do the thing you got to do, right, okay. So podcasts are something that a lot of people kind of aspire to, right, you always hear people saying like oh you should start a podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start a podcast and I know there are really great tools for visibility and for messaging and for all of those things. First of all, I guess what is something about the way people view podcasts as part of their business ecosystem in the online space that kind of makes you want to tear your hair out, like how are they viewing it? That you kind of look at it and go, oh no, that's not the way we need to do this.
Speaker 2:I think people just jumping into a podcasting endeavor is not the right move. I think you have to take into a handful of considerations before you create a podcast, and I think that number one you have to think about your bandwidth, because everybody always says, oh, it's just talking into our microphone and then it's uploading. Well, that is a podcast, but that is not a good podcast. So if you want a good podcast where people actually want to listen and engage, you got to do some more work. And that's where the hiccup is. That's where what in the industry is called pod feeding happens, because people don't take into consideration the time and the energy and the creativity that all encompasses creating a podcast and to make it sustainable. So I think, really taking the time to think about what is your bandwidth currently like? If you are maxed out all over the place and someone says to you create a podcast, you might as well just throw money out the window, because the squirrel or the bird that makes a bed with it, it will do more for your money than just throwing money to somebody like me and then you not doing anything because you don't have the bandwidth for it. Yeah, so taking a moment, taking a beat taking a step to think what time can I allocate to this?
Speaker 2:Also, knowing your why. Are you doing this because your coach told you to do it? Are you doing it because you saw Joe Schmo from Idaho doing it? Or are you doing it because you really want to connect with your audience on a deeper level? Because that's what podcasting gives you an opportunity to do and it allows you a lot of different repurposing and marketing tools. Right, so, what your, why, your who? Who the hell are you talking to? Do you know you just talk to anybody that's going to be listening. You shouldn't be. You should be talking to a specific person. So, those three pillars I would say think about a tackle and then create a podcast, because that's going to put you on foundational footing to create this house of the podcast that you want.
Speaker 1:I love that, and there I mean I mean God, just even my own journey. Like when I started the podcast, it was probably two years in the making. I've been wanting to do it forever and even with like 10 solid ideas, because you know they say, well, people usually give up before the 10th episode and like, great, I had 10 ideas. I pre-recorded a bunch of podcasts when I launched, but it's it's the ongoing that is actually way more challenging. You don't think about, like, how much time it takes every single week to do it, the expense, the you know coming up with ideas that are new and fresh and engaging and that people actually want to listen to and that you actually want to record. It's. It's a lot of work. So when would you say if somebody is thinking about doing a podcast, when would you say it's it's most effective to do it? Like what has to be in place or where does that person have to be in their business journey or their leadership journey or just journey in general for it to make sense to now have a podcast?
Speaker 2:I am super real and I'm like. You have to tap into you. You know when you're ready. You had said that you had been thinking about it for two years. What made this year the jump off for you?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I think I was just, you know, just ready sort of mentally, and I'm also that person that overthinks the shit out of stuff. So I had to really do the research of like, what is this going to take, how much is it going to cost? What kind of time commitment am I looking at? I didn't just jump into it, I almost thought myself out of doing it. But then there was this point where I was just like no, I'm ready now. So I don't really know.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's the answer, when you internally just know now is the time, now is the hour, that's when you should create your podcast and I mean, I kind of think I know what your answer is going to be, but when do we call in support and what sort of support? If someone's wanting to do a podcast, where would you say their money is most effective in terms of support investment?
Speaker 2:Whatever you hate doing the most.
Speaker 1:So would you say that somebody should like kind of do all the things first and see, or like, how do you figure that out?
Speaker 2:So I feel like that you should know what your strengths and weaknesses are. If you are going into an entrepreneurial journey, you have to know thyself. So you know what your strengths and weaknesses are. You know if you are able to acquire certain skills to assist you in editing, because you're not just going to wake up knowing how to edit. So do you have the patience to learn how to edit if that's something that you want to do? You know if you are creative, can you create your own cover art, or is that something that you loathe? Marketing Is that something that excites you and interests you, or is that something that you're just going to end up wanting to flip the supper table because you're so exasperated that by the time you want to eat dinner, you're just like chicken and rice again. And people are like why are you mad at the chicken and rice again?
Speaker 1:And people are like why are you mad at the chicken and rice? That's where I get stuck is the marketing. I hate marketing it.
Speaker 2:And these are the things where you should rely on somebody who understands and knows and can guide you and give them your foldable dollar bills. I love watching the wheels turn in your brain as you're like we're having a conversation.
Speaker 1:And also there's so many things I want to ask you about. So then, so tell me where Crackers and Soup and Bethany Hawkins kind of fall in the podcast support spectrum.
Speaker 2:So many different places. So we fall in the initial and you have the idea and you need help bringing it to fruition. And I have to say I was hesitant to do the launch package for the longest time and it is truly my favorite package now. Oh yeah, seeing people's aha moments, having people listen to the trailer for the first time, getting on a call with them for an hour and clashing out their concept, their first four episodes, having them look at the cover art for the first time, seeing their responses, time seeing their responses, having them listen to the first episode all of that creativity I am obsessed with and I love people's being geeked out over what we've created for them.
Speaker 1:I've seen the results of your work too. It's beautiful, so I love it, I will keep refreshing.
Speaker 2:If it's via email, I will keep refreshing to see if they've responded to what we said to them, because I'm like I want to bump this as a track on in the floor. That's how much I love this intro and outro, right? So that is one of our packages. So you have the idea we carry it all the way to creating in your first four episodes. And that's intro, outro, trailer, cover art.
Speaker 2:Again, I want to know your why we have those deep, meaningful, real conversations that are vital and important. We also honor everybody's learning tools and how they learn. So with each and every meeting that we have, we send you a copy of the video, we send you the transcript, we send you a copy of the audio. We also, if need to, we'll do a too long, didn't read bullets. If that's something that you need for us to do, we accommodate you, because it's important for you to continue to be excited and if the way that we are sharing information, your brain doesn't work in that facet, we will curtail our teaching to ensure that you understand what we're doing, why we're doing it and how we're doing it.
Speaker 2:So the other services that we offer is podcast service management, so monthly management or four episodes. So if you don't drop every week, the four episode package could equate to two months. So that is, we do the editing, we do the show notes, we do loading, we do graphics for the episode and then we upload them and we send you the embed code and bada bing, bada boom're done. And then we also offer consultations, which is my favorite after launching, and that is one-on-one for 60 minutes, and we take a deep dive and whatever your hiccup is for your podcast, and I come prepared because I know.
Speaker 2:I remember anybody knows Sarah. No, I don't talk the shit out of your issue and you, I remember I.
Speaker 1:So I've done a 60-minute consult with Bethany and I gotta tell you it is thorough as shit. Like I'm, I was shocked at the research she did and the suggestion she came with it just completely blew me away. So I mean mean, yeah, 100%, you do such a good job with that. So is that something that you think would work for someone who is already in a podcast, or is that something that is like it could also work for someone who's thinking about it? Where does the consultation piece fit best?
Speaker 2:I think it can fit in both, because there are times when you want to create the podcast. You're there, you have that feeling, you have that nagging sense that this is what you're supposed to be doing, but you're unsure of the concept, you're unsure of the strategy or how you should move. So having that one-on-one consultation where you're farming out all of the ideas and building out the framework so that you can then either retain us or you can go about your business and create podcast, is essential and a very smart move. I should say Okay.
Speaker 1:So this is actually the perfect segue because I want to. I want to also talk about podcasts just in general, from from like an ecosystem perspective. Like you've been in the business now for years, you've seen probably thousands of podcasts. You've been behind the scenes on a bunch of them. When you look at the kind of podcasts that do really really well, or the kind of podcasts that are really appealing to people, where do you see that trend kind of going? What are people really wanting to listen to and hear? That you're starting to notice.
Speaker 2:I think consistency is number one, not so much the particular topic, because I think the topics are going to vary because people vary so much. I think being consistent in your podcast is absolutely key. I also think that people knowing what stories they're going to share and how they are going to share it is how you continue to keep your audience engaged. So stories are relatable, no matter what your sex, race, creed, religion. If I'm watching Poltergeist and Carol Ann gets swooped up into the closet, when I was younger, I was horrified because I was a little girl who was afraid to be swooped up in a closet. As I watch it now, I'm horrified as a mother who has a daughter. Yes, oh my God, what would happen if she got swooped up in the closet. It's not that little.
Speaker 2:Caroline was a straight blonde hand, little white girl. I was still convinced that a clown was going to come underneath my bed and be like ha ha ha. So I think when we are telling our stories we have to remember that we're touching all the hands, like in you know world across America in the 80s. Yeah, everybody's touching hands, because everybody can feel in their bodies what it's like to have an experience like that. Not that exact experience, but an experience like that nonetheless, and incorporating more stories into the conversation is so vital. It doesn't have to be. This is my business podcast and we will be talking about blasphemy. Blasphemy is the definition from well, that's freaking boring. Nobody wants to deal with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So where's the line, though? Like when you're on a podcast, like where's the line between it being a vehicle for you to just kind of share and riff and do whatever, versus people are getting something out of it, something of value? Because there are days when, you know, I second guess myself, like, okay, I want to talk about this topic, I have a story to share, and then it's like trying to twist my brain into, like what lesson can I share or what value proposition is there to this particular topic? This may be a dumb question, but, like, how important is that?
Speaker 2:It's absolutely not a dumb question I think that people don't take into consideration. If you're going to do a podcast where you are speaking to somebody, even if you're doing a solo podcast, there are a lot of different moving parts that you have to be aware of as a host. You have to be listening to the guest because they may drop a gem that you want them to expand on a little bit more. So if you have a particular question in your mind you may want, you may think, oh, we have to go back to that. So there's that as well. You also have to be looking at the time, because if your podcast is an hour, you want to make sure that you have enough time to greet the best, get questions in, wrap up questions and then fade out to blue. So you have to be conscientious of the time. You also have to be conscientious of the sound quality, like oh, I just had a noise, do you mind if we redo that?
Speaker 2:You also have to be aware of bullets and topics that you want to hit and making sure that you're allocating enough time to hit those particular bullets and topics. So there are many things that you're doing as a host that people don't consider until they've been doing a podcast for a little bit, and I think that that differentiates the I'm just doing this for a hobby versus the people who really want meaning to come from their podcast. Right, and the more that you do it, the more that you are going to get acclimated to doing all of the roles of what it means to be a podcast host, the better that you're going to be, the more engaged you're going to be with your audience and the more that your audience is going to want to engage with you. So I think that, to wrap that up, knowing all of the different things that you need to do, as well as being prepared, that is what kind of separates the people who are just playing for fun and the people who are ready to bring this to a different level.
Speaker 1:Right. So okay, I'm going to ask this because I am interested what kind of podcasts, or what's the common thread, I guess, between podcasts that you've seen that are like award winning or that garner like really high level attention?
Speaker 2:I truly think that production, audio production. The majority of the listeners will not suffer through a low quality audio podcast. I can't even say unless it's a celebrity, because there have been celebrity podcasts that I have read their reviews and they have been diabolical the shade and the outright dust by the audience because their audio quality was so poor. They were like you got all this money. You can't hire somebody to help you out, Like you got all this money.
Speaker 1:You can't hire somebody to help you out. So like are we talking? Like it's just noisy in the background, or it drops in and out, or it's like a shitty microphone. Like all of the above?
Speaker 2:All of the above all of the above and your audience can be will be forgiving for a couple of episodes, because you know shit happens when you party naked episodes, because you know shit happens when you party naked. But if that's your regular, that's when people start losing interest. Also, a lot of podcasts that I know that have won awards are storytelling podcasts, narrative style podcasts, oh, and a lot of them that are the interview style podcasts that have won awards. You can hear that they're actually having a good time in that conversation. Right, you can hear it, you can feel it and you can feel it as an audience.
Speaker 2:Podcasting is a wild thing because people don't realize you're only using one sentence if you're listening to it via ear pods. If you're on YouTube, you can look at the people's faces. You can see if they're smiling. You can see if they're lit up. When you are listening, you can't see any of that. So somebody may be smiling in your face, but their voice will tell you if they are not connected with you. Have you ever listened to a podcast and you were like, oh, that person did not like that guest?
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%. In fact, I've been on podcasts where, you know, the host was just like it was like trying to get them to pull my teeth, to, like you know, say something, and it was very obvious they were not there that day. And it's not even just a horrible experience for the listener but, like for the person on the show. It's really awkward and it's really uncomfortable and you're like why am I wasting my time here?
Speaker 2:But you know, I think that that also goes back to leadership. I think that that goes to the leadership conversation of can we just pause for a second? It doesn't really feel like that, and you can do this as a guest and or as a host. It's your time, it's your boundaries. You can, at any point, stop a podcast interview and say I am so sorry, I'm just not feeling energetically aligned. It may be me. How are you feeling about this experience? And if it's something that you want to reschedule, absolutely do that. But if it's something that you're like, I just don't feel like that. This is a great fit. Yeah, you can say okay, and they don't have to publish that episode. You are not enrolled to a podcast interview.
Speaker 1:You know, that is. That is something I I mean this is. I never considered that Like. I never considered the fact that you can actually say like this is not. I never considered that Like. I never considered the fact that you can actually say like this is not. Because you sometimes see interviews where you know the interviewee will like get up and walk out and you're like the scandal. But yeah, you can thank you for the permission. You can actually do that. You can actually say this is not working for me right now. I'm not here or I'm not aligned.
Speaker 2:When it comes out, you can't have people un-listen, and I feel like this as a person who has had an award-winning podcast as a host I want my guests to celebrate the fact that they were on my podcast. I want them to be excited and share the fact that they were on the podcast. If I am making the experience something that they don't want to champion, I am not doing my job as a host. And if I'm feeling them and they're not feeling me, I want them to tell me so that I can change course. I never want my guests to feel uncomfortable and if they say to me you know, at the end of the conversation, you know what I'm uncomfortable, that I said that I was just in the moment I shared this, I really can you remove that? So don't got to tell me twice. Absolutely, let me go do that right now. So I don't forget yeah, you have to show up for people, how you want people to show up for you in all aspects, especially in podcasting.
Speaker 1:I want to kind of continue with this leadership thread, because one of the things that I'm moving into more now is leadership is self-trust, self-leadership, women's empowerment, because it's such an important piece and I think that A we miss a lot of it in the online business space. Right, it's lacking in a lot of areas and that's a podcast episode for another day but I feel like podcasting is one of those things. I mean, yes, a lot of people come to it to elevate their authority or to just create authority around a topic or a niche or whatever it is, but there is such an enormous opportunity for leadership in the podcast space. You are a leader in the podcast space. I don't don't, no, no, no, it's true, it's 100% true, and I want you to totally take that and digest it. What experiences have you had that you can share and that you're comfortable sharing, where you've had to wear the leadership hat in a situation that demanded leadership because nobody was really nobody's really taking it? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:There are a couple that I can think of. So, personally, within my business, there were times that I am very particular on who we onboard as clients, and I will tell you why. Because of experiences such as this, we get very involved with our clientele because we want to know all of the things regarding them so that we can implement that into their podcast. And there was a situation in the beginning years when we onboarded this individual who was not my ideal client and I felt it on a visceral level when we were doing a discovery call. I felt it but this is why all money is good money. I had a team and I needed to get paid and this person said oh, this sounds great, we'd like to start on such and such. I said, okay, not only was this person a nightmare to work with for myself, but also my team, and I am very protective of my team. I'm going to let you get away with some things, saying to me like fantastic side eye and I'm putting it in the vault yeah, but when you're disrespectful to my team, that's a wrap. So, as the CEO of my business, who is protective of my team and their genius, I had to reach out to this person and say number one, you don't talk to myself or my team like this Number two, we are not aligned. So here's what I'm going to do I'm going to discontinue your contract. I'm going to do these couple of episodes in which you have paid, and then our contract is resolved. Right, I'm giving you three weeks to get new podcast management, because those are the three episodes that we will do. And then this person was so oblivious to the way in which they were engaging with us that they actually asked for specifics because they didn't know. Really, truly, wow, and I said this and this and this and this and, to their credit, they came back and they were like you know what, you were right and I apologize. Wow. And I was like thank you for that and also bye. Yeah, so that was a place that I knew that I had to step up, not only for myself, but also for my team members.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another situation is just very recently I was doing audio engineering for my clients and there's three of them and they're beautiful women. There's three co-hosts and they had a guest come on and we were waiting for the third co-host to join us on. And we were waiting for the third co-host to join us and the guest shared something that completely knocked the sales out of her wind no, the wind out of her sales. And it was shocking. It was shocking to not only her, it was shocking to the co-hosts. And I had said to her are you okay to do this podcast interview? You just had this experience at 9am. We're at 12pm. Literally, you have three hours to digest this. Are you okay to have a conversation Not pertaining?
Speaker 2:The conversation pertained a little bit to what she was just told as well, right? And she said yeah, I can, I can have this conversation, and God bless her because she was extremely professional and she was ready. She was ready to have that talk. And the host said I agree with Bethany, but if you want to have this, we can still have it. And she said oh, yeah, we're all here. I know that this is supposed to drop at a certain time. I don't want to prolong this. And the third co-host jumped on and I made the executive decision, as their podcast producer, to not record that episode and I said I applaud you for your professionalism, I applaud you for showing, for even showing up because you're going to cancel this.
Speaker 2:I applaud you for that and also I am making an executive decision to not record this. But here's what we're going to do. If you would allow us to do this for you, I said for the remaining 45 minutes, if you want to share what happened in this experience and we will listen and just be in the presence of support for you Will you allow us to do that? And she said yes, and that's literally what we did for the remaining 45 minutes and they came up with plans and structures on how to navigate the situation. And it was truly just a moment of appreciation for where someone's at and honoring what somebody is willing to do, and you saying I'm going to, I'm going to take the responsibility off of you and say we don't have to do this.
Speaker 1:That is really beautiful, like, and that's something that like. Why? Why is it that women have such a hard time advocating for things like a break or a pause, or I can't do this right now, or I just need support and I need a space where I can offload and just be heard and just be supported. Why is that? I mean especially, I think, as women get into more and more elevated levels of leadership and more responsibility, it becomes harder. I saw it all the time in the corporate space, but I'm seeing it a lot in entrepreneurship as well. Why do you think it's hard, particularly for women of color?
Speaker 2:I think it's the pressure of you have to be seven figure, you have to be six figure, you have to be making five figure months you have. There are so many shoulds and have tos that people forget that. A lot of entrepreneurs got into creating their own business to change how business is done, right, and you can't change how business is done if you're doing the same old, same old because of the shoulds.
Speaker 1:We need to create a new paradigm for how business is done and new context. Yes, and you know what? Podcasting is a great way to do that, because you get to share that thought leadership right, and you get to share with people. This is how business not should be done. Can be done if it's, if it feels right for you. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I think that that is the key point, that's the key takeaway that you had just said. If it feels right to you at that moment that it would, I would have laid my head down on the pillow that night, feeling badly If we had recorded that podcast interview. And no, I would have laid my head down on the pillow that night, feeling badly if we had recorded that podcast interview. No, I would have. I mean, I'm an empath it would have really have bothered me if we had recorded that, because I knew internally, I knew that's not what she needed at that moment, even though her verbiage said it's okay, her body and her essence said I don't know if I want to do this, and I didn't also want her to say something that she regretted later on and it be out in the public and it be used against her. So that was another facet.
Speaker 1:So that was another facet, because when you say things when it's very raw, that you maybe reflect from a place where you are not emotionally steady, it can be problematic because, god knows, when I don't have enough sleep or I haven't eaten, or it's been a long week, I say things that I should not be saying out loud to anyone, let alone the people in the room. I totally get that and that's, and I applaud you for that, and I think that more of us need to be cognizant of these moments where it just doesn't feel right right now and we can say no. If you see someone is not feeling brave enough to say no, say no on their behalf. Yeah, I love that. You're so wonderful. Okay, I have a couple more questions for you. First of all, favorite podcasts. What do you love to listen to as a podcast producer and professional?
Speaker 2:I'll have to tell you I very, very rarely listen to interview podcasts anymore because I've been listening to them for five years. Because I've been listening to them for five years, yeah, day in, day out, fair, sometimes on weekends. So I listen to horror story podcasts. There'll be times I'll be cooking in my kitchen. My husband will be like, what are you listening to? Because it'll be like and then the vampire swoops down and sucked on their neck.
Speaker 1:He's like what is happening out there. So not true crime, but like actual horror story podcast.
Speaker 2:Actual horror story podcast. So, between actual horror story podcast and Darren Menke, who does like more. Those are the podcasts that I listen to that's.
Speaker 1:So. That is so funny because you posted the other day about shows you were watching. You were talking about like the old, the old shows, like Lie to Me and the Mentalist, which I used to love. In fact, lie to Me, that opening scene, the very first episode. I showed that in every single one of my communication classes when we started talking about micro, micro expressions.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yeah, I know and then you were talking about Sherlock, which on let's I mean, that's such a fantastic show and I think that that's why maybe I don't listen to true crime podcasts, because I watch you, watch them.
Speaker 2:I want what? Yeah, I like I want to see because I want to guess, yes, who, who done did the nonsense? Yeah, and if I can't see it, I can't look at. I can't look at their facial expressions, like my husband hates watching things with me Cause he cause I'm like, oh, he did it. And he's like what's the matter with you? How come you just can't let it play out. But again, that's the criminal justice in me, cause I'm freaking. Let's go back full circle. I'm freaking, nosy. So I'm looking at what you're doing and how you're doing it and I'm, like you, too shady, for no damn reason. Why are you so shady right now?
Speaker 1:I am actually banned from watching movies with my brother and sister because of the same thing. Like I can tell very early on where things are going to go and I don't even have to say it. But just I can't play poker for a reason because this face does not hide shit, and so immediately, like a character will come on and I'll be like right, and they're like stop giving it away. I'm like I'm not giving anything away, I'm just expressing my interest in the tell, in the developments of the, but they don't like it because my face is a walking spoiler.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same same. If a movie gets me. If a movie or a book gets me, I am obsessed with it for all time. So I read Shutter Island way before it became a movie, way before anybody had heard of it. It like it, I want to say it was maybe the first year in which had it had come out and I had just stumbled upon it. I was like, oh, shutter Island. And I read the jacket and I was like, oh, this, this looks cool. And it was large print and I was going like blind at the time to get this book right quick. That book had me on a chokehold forever, primal fear. When that movie came out, that twist, the fight club, I figured. I figured out six, I think, all of those plot twisty type of movies I am in, because if you can get me, I'm like I done been got Right and it's so rare to watch something where the plot twist is like that.
Speaker 1:I did not see that coming. There's a show we recently watched on Netflix. It's an eight episode British series, it's so it will get you. It will get you.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, I saw that and that was with the woman with her husband's dead. Yes, yes, did that get you?
Speaker 1:I did not see that coming and also I felt like that it could have been four episodes. Yeah, there was a lot of back and forth, but the the twist at the end was like we all just jaws on the floor.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic, so I watched that in an airport when I we were, I had been, we had been nominated for an award, I don't know. So we went. So we went to the awards ceremony in florida, uh but I watched yes, I watched that series when we were in the airport in the layover. Oh gosh, it was. Yeah, it was. It was a long-ass airplane road.
Speaker 1:All right. What is one small piece of advice that you can give to that woman out there who wants to start a podcast and doesn't know what the first thing she should do is?
Speaker 2:First thing you should do is know your bandwidth and know your why. If all of those meet the sniff test, if you are at a place where you're unsure of what you should be talking about, look at what you post on your favorite social media platform, see what has gotten the most engagement and just jot it down, because those can be topics in which you cover on your podcast for the first season.
Speaker 1:Simple, easy and you don't have to overthink it. Amazing. Bethany Hawkins. Thank you so much for being here. This was, like it wasn't meant to be a masterclass in podcasting but hallelujah it was so. Thank you for bringing your brilliance, thank you for being here, and we're gonna have to do this again, and this time we're just gonna have to like riff about just being women in the space, because we have so much to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yes, and if your listeners and audience has any questions, we can. You can actually find me on the website is crackersandsoupcom, or you and I can have a follow-up where we go live on Facebook and answer some of their questions. If they have any, I would love that.
Speaker 1:So if you have questions, my friends, about podcasting, about anything that we've covered today or anything we haven't covered today, you want to throw us a bone like it's all good, let us know and we will. I mean, I love that idea, let's do that for sure. Yes, awesome, okay, yes, all the links are going to be in the show notes. Get in touch with Bethany if you have aspirations of hosting a podcast, being on a podcast or just podcasting in general, or if you just want to be connected with someone super, super cool. I'll tell you this being in Bethany's energy is like having six Red Bulls, because she's just the best human. All right, so you heard it here. You know I'm not full of shit because, as always, you can have success without the BS. You just got to know who you got to have in your corner.
Speaker 2:Ironically, my initials, my maiden name, is S, so you kind of do have the BS.
Speaker 1:And on that we will talk to you next week. That's it for this week. Thanks for listening to the Business Blasphemy Podcast. We'll be back next week with a new episode, but in the meantime, help a sister out by subscribing and, if you're feeling extra sassy, rating this podcast, and don't forget to share the podcast with others. Head over to businessblasphemypodcastcom to connect with us and learn more. Thanks for listening and remember you can have success without the BS.