Artfully Mindful

The Great Seal of Mahamudra

• D. R. Thompson • Season 2 • Episode 34

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Unlock the mysteries of Tibetan Buddhism and transform your understanding of reality with our latest episode. Join me, Don Thompson, as we navigate the profound concept of Mahamudra, or the Great Seal. Drawing on my experiences with esteemed Tibetan Lamas and Rinpoches, we explore the interconnected essence of all things and delve into the concept of interdependent origination. We'll also dissect the intriguing debate between the mind-only school and the dependent arising school, providing you with a richer perspective on how these schools interpret reality and emptiness. This episode promises to enhance your comprehension of Buddhist thought and the nature of existence itself.

Dive deeper into the direct perception of reality and emptiness through the Dzogchen and Mahamudra views. By recognizing that all things are merely conceptual, you can transcend mental constructs and perceive life in an entirely new light. Whether through daily routines or profound contemplative states, discover the transient nature of experiences and the playful, illusory aspects of existence. We reveal how, beneath all appearances, lies the great seal of Mahamudra—the vast, clear light of reality. Don't miss this enlightening discussion that offers profound insights into the Buddhist understanding of self and the essence of being.

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Don Thompson:

Hi Don Thompson here with another podcast and I'd like to talk today about a concept within Tibetan Buddhism which is called Mahamudra or the Great Seal, and I'll get into what that means and elaborate upon it a little bit. This is based upon the teachings of the Tibetan Lamas, really. So basically I've studied with a few different Tibetan Lamas over the course of my life, alamas over the course of my life and recently, I'd say within the last few years maybe, oh gosh, even 10 years, really, I sort of have drifted away from Tibetan Buddhism somewhat, but I do try to stay on top of my studies with Tibetan Buddhism. I have studied quite extensively, but I won't pretend that I have studied as extensively as a Tibetan lama would study, or a monk and a monastery would study, where they would go over the various texts of Tibetan Buddhism, the various practices, and really go over them extensively daily and immerse themselves into these practices daily. I haven't done that, but what I have done is I have studied with a variety of different rupeshas who were quite knowledgeable and you might say enlightened in their own way and you might say enlightened in their own way, and that has included lawments from all four major schools, or certainly three major schools. I've sort of lightly touched on one of the schools, the Sakyu School. I haven't really delved into that too much. But the other schools of Tibetan Buddhism I have really delved into and studied with lamas and Rinpoches Rinpoche meaning a lama who is reborn and takes a rebirth, you might say with an intent to continue their practice. So that's the theory.

Don Thompson:

I'm not saying that this is absolutely true scientifically. I have no doubt that scientists would debate this reality. But I'll say this is what the belief system is, reality. But I'll say this is what the belief system is and we can get into a little bit about reincarnation and what that means or could mean or might not mean. We could do that. But I won't do that really here. Instead, what I'll do is I'll talk a little bit about again what's known as Mahamudra. Now, the reason I like the term Mahamudra and the idea about Mahamudra is it really the reason I like the term Mahamudra and the idea about Mahamudra is it really is an all-encompassing instruction and what it means is a great seal, and really it means a great seal of emptiness.

Don Thompson:

Now that in itself requires an explanation, because people say, well, what is emptiness? It doesn't make any sense when you just take it out of context and mention it. What the heck do you mean by emptiness? So by emptiness, really, there's different descriptions of emptiness within Tibetan Buddhism, and one of the ideas is called interdependent origination or dependent arising, and what this means is that things depend on each other to exist. There's a cause and effect relationship between all things, there's an interconnectedness between all things and, as a result, everything arises dependent upon something else. There's a dependent arising and an interdependent origination, meaning that reality arises interdependently from these relationships between things. And so, as a result, there is no fixed thing that you can ever identify as an autonomous fixed thing, independent of anything else. There is no such thing, it doesn't exist. And because of this, this concept of emptiness really rises from this idea that all things depend on each other. All things are dependent. Reality is dependent upon various elements within reality that cannot be discreetly identified. You cannot, again, you cannot say this one thing exists outside of its relationship to something else. So, as you can see, it gets rather intellectual quite quickly, but if you ponder it, it can be quite profound, and then you realize that when you look at anything, when you see anything, when you touch or taste or feel anything. It really cannot exist as an independent thing. You don't exist as an independent thing. Your identity as an independent individual is really a construction, it's a concept, it's an idea. There is no such thing as an independent entity called you. Therefore, you are empty of inherent existence. Mahamudra, basically the great seal of emptiness, recognizes this emptiness that comes out of this reality, that all things are dependent on each other and reality is dependent on each other, and reality is basically empty of inherent existence. There is no inherently existing thing that you can hold up and say you know, this exists.

Don Thompson:

Now there's another version or idea or way to approach emptiness, which is a little bit different from dependent arising. This really has to do with, you might say, the idea that all things really rest in space. Rest, you might say, in mind. And then this gets into what's called the mind-only school of Buddhism. It's a particular view and the debates in Tibetan Buddhism often are between this mind-only view and the dependent arising view. And in particular, when the Dalai Lama has teachings, he talks about this distinction between mind-only and the dependent arising school, the interdependent origination school. He discusses this and contrasts these two schools, basically in defense of the dependent arising school, which is really what the Dalai Lama's school promotes as what's called the middle way path.

Don Thompson:

The middle way but emptiness can also be viewed as a resting in a sort of a space, and the resting in a space comes from really a conception of reality which is—the teaching is known as Dzogchen, and the Dzogchen teaching really talks about the conceptual nature of reality, and that reality arises out of concepts, and the concepts are mental activities and thus the mind is the precursor, the sort of the you know, required for this reality to exist. The mind, with its concepts, creates in a sense reality, things that exist outside of these mental concepts, to people in a common sense way. In other words, when you think of a car, you aren't really seeing the car, you're seeing the concept of car. Just like when you see Betty, you're not seeing Betty, you're seeing your concept of who Betty is. And this gets back a little bit to what I was saying before about dependent arising. And then you're mistakenly identifying these concepts as reality. But it's a little bit different, and it's a little bit different, and it's a little bit different from the perspective that you're really looking at reality from a conceptual framework and you're seeing reality through these concepts and so, as a result, you're sort of misidentifying what reality is. If you can, rather, let go of or get beyond or become silent and rest in the fact that these concepts are merely echoes, you might say, of a false reality, then you can rest and look directly at reality in this sort of you might say a Dzogchen view. That reality in this sort of you might say Dzogchen view A Dzogchen view would be in my mind, in my interpretation, a Mahamudra view, a great seal view of emptiness.

Don Thompson:

You're directly perceiving emptiness. You aren't necessarily going through any kind of a mental machination, aside from understanding that all things that you're looking at are conceptual. Once you can let go of that and you can view things as they are, you begin to see things in a different light. You look beyond concepts and you see things directly. And if you see things directly, you notice things that you didn't notice before and you see life really in a different way, and this is, in a sense, another kind of emptiness. It's another way to perceive emptiness.

Don Thompson:

By just directly perceiving this sort of Dzogchen view, this direct view, this Mahamudra view of direct perception, the Great Seal, you're understanding that the space of the Great Seal is the essential reality, it is the underpinning of all reality. And you do this not by again, again, any kind of a mental exercise per se, but it's a direct perception which can arise out of mental activity. Because you reach a point of exhaustion of the mental activity, you reach a point where analysis doesn't really give you what you need. So you have to leap to or move toward direct perception of reality. And this direct perception of reality should not be confused with meditative states per se, meaning that you don't necessarily reach this through meditation. You can, but you don't have to.

Don Thompson:

You can see it, you can have it, enter your perception simply through looking at life. You can see it, you can have it. You know, enter your perception simply through looking at life. You can see it in everyday life. You can see it in washing dishes. You can see it in, you know, the face of your spouse. You can see it in everything.

Don Thompson:

Really, the Mahamudra, the great seal, encompasses everything, encompasses all reality, meditative, non-meditative, whatever. This is the great beauty of the Mahamudra is it encompasses all things. It is the great seal, it is the finality, you might say, of perception, of being able to directly perceive. What is now in Tibet is the clear light, the clear light of reality is not in Tibet, is the clear light. The clear light, the clear light of reality is not something that is seen separate from anything. It is part of everything. It is part of everything that you dislike and everything that you like. It is the Mahamudra, the great seal. This is the spaciousness, the expanse, the great deep, the vast deep, as Guru Rinpoche has said in his text about Dzogchen. He comments about it that way the vast deep, it's the space.

Don Thompson:

So I'll leave it at that, because Mahamudra did come to mind today for me as I reflect upon the fact I've been married for a long time, I've been married for 40 years, and I was thinking about my marriage. I know I'm leaping into it Hopefully I'm not confusing her, but I'm leaping into another subject, because the whole subject of marriage to me became like, in essence, a seal. A marriage is a seal, it's a commitment, it's a commitment to something and the commitment to something is actualized in a seal. So the time spent together, 40 years together, becomes a seal in a sense of something. That becomes, in essence, understood in a way that is empty, because the 40 years you can't grasp it, you can't hold it up and say here it is. You can take a lot of pictures and you can post pictures on Facebook and you say here we are, 40 years together and here's our celebration we had, or whatever. But it's basically, you know, something that is passed through your fingers like the space, and there's a poignancy to that. You can't grasp it, you can't hold on to it. You can't hold on to anyone or anything really.

Don Thompson:

You can have an illusion, a concept of this person, but you don't really know them. You don't really know who they are. Concept of this person, but you don't really know them. You don't really know who they are. You don't really know who you are because you're just, in a sense, this idea of resting in this vast expanse. And we can cling to these ideas about who we are and we can enter into these fantasies and partake in them and kind of play around with them, like as if we're entering into a video game or something. We could do that. But that doesn't mean they're necessarily, in quotes, really real. They aren't necessarily really real. These are things that we can enter into and partake in, like a marriage, like a relationship, like anything, like a career. You can partake in these things and you can have fun with them. You can play with them. You can have.

Don Thompson:

You know, the idea in Hinduism and in the Vedas is divine play. You can enter into life, both you know, joyfully and playfully, understanding that it's really sort of an illusion that you're entering into. There's no substantiality to it. At its core, it's Mahamudra, it's the great seal, it's the vast space that you're observing. Really that's what you're seeing. I'll leave it at that. Hopefully this wasn't too profound or unprofound. Maybe it wasn't profound enough, I don't know. But I'll leave it at that and maybe we'll visit this topic again sometime in the future. Until then, I look forward to talking to you soon. Bye, thank you, thank you.