The Informed Traveler
The Informed Traveler
Exploring Montreal & The Rise of Anti-Tourism
Travel Expert Onanta Forbes continued her travels through Eastern Canada last week which included a stop in Montreal so we'll catch up with her once again to get the highlights. Plus, we'll talk about the growing problem of anti-tourism in some destinations. We'll chat with an analyst from a company called Riskline on why we're seeing a tourism backlash and destinations that are trying to balance the need for tourism versus too many tourists.
So,
SPEAKER_01:Well, hello and welcome to the Informed Traveller podcast, a weekly travel podcast where our goal is to help you become a more informed traveller. And I'm your host, Randy Sharman. Travel expert Onanta Forbes continued her travels last week through eastern Canada, which included a stop in Montreal. So we'll catch up with her once again to get some highlights. Plus, we're going to talk about the growing problem of anti-tourism in some destinations. So later in the show, we'll chat with an analyst from a company called Riskline on why we're seeing a tourism backlash and destinations that are trying to balance the need for tourism for economic growth with too many tourists. But first, let's kick things off chatting with travel expert Onanta Forbes, who joins us each week to discuss some of the travel news and travel trends. You can follow her adventures on Instagram, Facebook, and X at Onanta Forbes. Onantaforbes.com is her website. Hello, Onanta.
SPEAKER_00:Bonjour, Randy. Comment ça
SPEAKER_01:va? Très bien. Et toi?
SPEAKER_00:Very good. Very good. Happy to be in Montreal.
SPEAKER_01:That's what it for my French. Yes,
SPEAKER_00:well. And you know,
SPEAKER_01:I took it in university too, and I forgot all of it.
SPEAKER_00:I know, you have to keep it up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, use it or lose it. So were you using much of it in Montreal?
SPEAKER_00:You know, the street signs are all in French, but the majority of the people understand either language, French or English. So you'll have no problem communicating here, which is really nice. I thought I would, but nope, all is well.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. So you're in Montreal right now. When we last chatted, you were still in Newfoundland. So get us up to date on going from Newfoundland to Montreal.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So the last day in Trinity, we went on a boat ride, which I would recommend anybody who's visiting that area to do so because it's really nice to be able to see whole Hopefully some marine wildlife, definitely lots of different birds, including puffins. And just the coastline. Rugged is a wonderful way to say the description of it because, you know, over time, wind, salt, and the water have really made the cliff sides gorgeous. So I would recommend it. And we had a great skipper on the Trinity Eco Tours, Skipper Steve, and I have a little interview with him on my Facebook. and Instagram, so check it out and you can hear what you'll experience. Now, we didn't see any whales because we are in off-season. It's September, right? So the whales have gone on to other places. But very lovely, very lovely. And then we headed up to, after our stay in Trinity, oh, just before, just for fun fact, there's a lot of Netflix filming around there. I don't know if you watch the show Severance with, I think it's directed by Ben Stiller. They have an episode in Trinity. I didn't know that. Yeah, it was kind of interesting. So we headed up to Twillingate. We have a car. So it was three and a half hours of driving. And, you know, take your time. Spend some time. Like we went through Terra Nova National Park. So very interested. You could stop, have a little walk around, visit a nice little town for lunch. But Twillingate is known as the iceberg capital of the world. It's got great outdoor hiking trails, neat little shops and good East Coast cuisine. So again, if you are wanting to experience some more Newfoundland culture, this is a great place to go. So, you know, as we drove up, you can, there's different points of interest. You could stop in this great little hamlet called Boyd's Cove and make a quick detour to Biotech Interpretation Center. And that's where you learn about the village that that was there 300 years ago you could go on a little walk it's about a mile or a kilometer and a half where you get to pass by um an archaeological site where you can see outlines of that the house pits from the village so also it's just really interesting to just just just enjoy the nature of the destination because it's beautiful absolutely beautiful now again we're in september so we don't we didn't see any icebergs and that That's when you come in May or June. That's when you see them. And they're quite spectacular. I do have some guests that went last year and they loved it. And they are quite sights to see. But just on its own, Twillingate as a community, it's got lots of little galleries. And we went to the Twillingate Museum and Craft Shop. You can learn about the history. Really nice locally made handicrafts that were there. I got a quilt. a nice leaf and land quilt. And I also learned about mummers and mummers. Have you ever heard of mummers?
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they make mummers into dolls and soapstone carvings and such. And they're individuals who, during the Christmas season, disguise themselves with outlandish costumes. And it's made from household items, and they go house to house, often unannounced. And the hosts try to guess the mummers' identities, engaging in guessing games. They're offered food and drink, and then they're sent on their way. And if you guess it, they take off their mask or their costume, so you know who it is. If they don't, they just continue. It's very lovely, like, folklore and tradition. It's quite sweet. And then we went to this another really fun little studio. It's called Scott Spencil's Art Studio. You can see the largest or giant lobster trap that's outside his studio. You could check out his pencil art and it illustrates different symbols of Newfoundland from landscapes to wildlife. And some of the prints even come with frames from upcycled lobster traps. So lots to do, lots to see. We went up to Long Point Lighthouse, got to see from that viewpoint, just the majestic scenery that you can, sea from the lighthouse and then you know when on a foggy day you can hear the fog horn and then when you kind of can you know pair it with the waves crashing it's kind of a fun experience and there's lots of hiking trails around it so from Twillingley we did head by flight we drove back to St. John it's about a almost a five hour drive but you could also fly out of Gander or continue your journey up to Deerland lake and explore Gros Morne National Park but keep in mind it's a small island but it's got lots of driving so keep in mind that and then you know flying with Rouge airline we arrived early it was just a two and a half hour flight when you get to Montreal you could either you know line up with your travel advisor a private transfer to your hotel or take an Uber or a taxi just to forewarn you both of those I have long lineups. But we took a bus. It was called 747. And it goes right to different hotels areas of downtown Montreal. And even though they had warnings about traffic delays between the airport and downtown, it only took us 15 minutes and it was like$12. So very, very cheap and cheerful. We always like that, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:exactly. Yes. And then when you're in Montreal, I would recommend And either if you're going to sightsee around, get a multi-day metro pass, depending on the length of your stay. It'll save you tons of money if you're planning to see lots of the sea. And if you took that 747, the first 24 hours are included in your ticket on the metro. So you get some value there as well. The afternoon when we arrived, we just wandered around. We went down to Old Montreal, which is a part of the city that gives you European vibes. It dates back to the 17th century, has cobblestone streets, and it's just fun to wander. Don't have a destination. Just take in the buildings and the restaurants and some of the oldest streets include Rue Saint-Paul and plenty of French architectural influence. And then what we also did was there was a market. It's a market that's kind of like a shopping mall now. It's called Bancer Corps. That was good. Or the main area where kind of people gather is Plas Choc Tarche. So lots to see here. We enjoy the Notre Dame Basilica. It's like a Gothic revival church. That is a must see. Now, if you are, there is an entry fee unless you're attending mass. So if you are going to pray, that's a good way to get in. But if not, you have to pay about$18. And it's where Celine Dion got married. So that's kind of
SPEAKER_01:fun. I remember that,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. Yes. And then we went to see Oria, Montreal there. And that's like a, it's an immersive experience that has a lot of lights, lighting and visual, like video projection and music. And it kind of reveals the architectural and the richness of this neo-Gothic art piece. So it was It's really nice. And then nearby is the old port of Montreal. Again, a beautiful area to walk around. It's right on the St. Lawrence River. You can go to get some really great views on the Montreal Observation Wheel. It's a really large ferris wheel, largest in Canada. And it's not that old. It was added in 2017. And then from the ferris wheels, you can get a view of old Montreal as well as the river. What we did the first full day we were here, we went on a hop-on, hop-off, double-decker bus tour. It runs seasonally between May and October. And it does cover popular sites and neighborhoods. So like the Dorchester Square or Montreal, Chinatown. You go up to Mount Royal Park. So kind of fun to get oriented. And I'm always saying it's a good place, a good start to a trip, right? is to do a hop on hop off. Of course, eating is part of my journey. And yesterday we tried, you know, the smoked beef or smoked meat that's here, the sandwiches. Yeah, the Montreal
SPEAKER_01:smoked meat sandwiches.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then I tried poutine. I only think you can do it once a trip. It's pretty rich, but it's very yummy. You can't leave right without it. And there's different places that are kind of famous for. For the smoked meat sandwiches, you might want to go to Schwartz Deli. That's very popular. And another place that we're going to venture out to see is in Little Italy. There's a public marketplace called Jean Talen Market. So, you know, there's lots of things to see and to do. You can get around by bike or scooter. You can rent bikes from Bixi Bike Stations or take an eco or e-scooter tour on foot. Very walkable city. Most of the sites are in a very small area, but there's buses or a subway to connect to. Take a bus tour or sightsee the city from the St. Lawrence River. I find Montreal, I feel safe. I wouldn't let my guard down because tourists still are a prime target in any city, but you don't need to feel anxious during the day or even at night there's a lot of people around um to you know make you feel comfortable in your ventures out nice yes
SPEAKER_01:so overall uh again uh what was the the big highlight for you in montreal so far i
SPEAKER_00:would say oh montreal like it because it really did give you a vibe that you're a european vibe it you still felt you were in canada but it just felt um you felt like you were on vacation
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Onanda Forbes is a travel expert. You can follow her on Facebook, Instagram, and X. Follow her images of Newfoundland and Montreal and other places on her Instagram and Facebook feeds and her website, onandaforbes.com. Always good chatting, Onanda. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Take care. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:This is the Informed Traveler podcast. I'm Randy Sharman. Just want to remind you of our website, theinformedtraveler.org. That's where you can find our contact page if you have any questions or comments about the podcast. You could also email me, too, with any questions you might have. My email address is randy at theinformedtraveler.org. And if you want to get up-to-date travel info through the week or just see a few amusing travel stories and links, you can like us on Facebook at Instagram at informedtraveller or on X at informedtraveller. Plus, you can now sign up for our monthly newsletter. It's released at the beginning of every month. Our September issue is available now. Just go to our website, theinformedtraveller.org, click on the newsletter button, it'll take you right there, or you can subscribe to it and have it arrive in your inbox each month. So you probably heard about the growing problem of anti-tourism in some destinations. Places that are telling tourists to basically go home. So joining me now to discuss why we're seeing a tourism backlash and destinations that are trying to balance the need for tourism, for economic growth with too many tourists is Paul Mutter. He is a research analyst with Riskline. Riskline.com is the website. Hi, Paul. Hello. Tell me a little bit about Riskline and what you do.
SPEAKER_02:Riskline is a travel risk assessment company. We provide a 24-7 content coverage and also analytic analysis reports basically we act as a source of info for where you're going to be going and when you get there so for planning and also on the ground updates and our information service is in addition to our longer form reports and assessments we provide clients as well as city maps and other travel info things like all the phone numbers you'd need in an emergency in a foreign country, stuff about local customs, laws, places that you would want to avoid, specific travel information about visas and whatever medical documents you might need for going in. Our 24-7 service is providing essentially like a wire service for a news outlet. It's the best comparison for everywhere around the world. So wherever there is a breaking news update that could affect a traveler, like a hurricane, a parade blocking traffic, a protest at the airport, a potential terrorist attack or mass shooting, a disease outbreak like Ebola, monkeypox, Legionnaire's disease. We report on that as soon as we find out and let the traveler know so they can work that into their plans if it affects them.
SPEAKER_01:So basically anything that scares you away from a destination, you report Yep. Or makes it either makes
SPEAKER_02:it harder for you to get there or makes it harder for you to leave. Like, for example, something as mundane as a railway strike in Italy could seriously affect your departure plans because you would generally be most likely you'll be taking a train to the airport in Italy and the trains aren't running. You're going to have to pay a lot of money out of pocket for a cab or rent a car. So we keep up on that and send out notices in advance as soon as we find out about strike plans or anything like that. If, say, there's going to be a protest where you're going like, oh, the city center, like Brussels is going to be shut down city center on this date because there's a large march for, you know, some conflict in the Middle East. And then we would tell the travelers what time the march is, if there's any related protests around that, road closures, if like the tram stations are closed, you're going to want to know that because if you're planning on going on a nice tourist excursion or a business lunch, your plans might be different. might be wrecked if you get down there and there's thousands of people marching with banners up and down the city center. You're going to have a hard time getting around.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it seems like it's stuff that you wouldn't know normally, right? It's very valuable information.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But a lot of this stuff is not covered in, say, English language media. So for a casual business traveler, someone who is not invested in the country they're going to, they might not get wind of this otherwise. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so is it more for business travelers or can the average traveler sign up? And how does that work to get notices and things?
SPEAKER_02:You sign up for your service. We mostly work with organizations rather than individuals.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:But we have a wide range of clients, including foreign ministries for different countries. So our information feeds into their travel notices through their equivalent of a.gov portal for travelers, like the embassy notice about if there's something happening you need to be aware of, new entry rules, yellow fever vaccine certificate, Ebola testing at the borders. During the COVID period, we basically more or less transitioned into a healthcare Yeah, like we have a lot of corporate clients. Mm-hmm. Well, it is a wealth
SPEAKER_01:of information. I am looking on your website, Risk Client. Real-time alerts, destination reports, traveler-specific safety. One thing that we're going to talk about specifically is this anti-tourism backlash. And it seems to me it's happening more in Europe, but there's other places too. But it seems to be like there's this conundrum where destinations want people to travel, but only to a certain point. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. I'm in my own, since I'm based in the New York area, so there haven't been widespread protests against that. But, you know, there have been issues and complaints about what was Airbnb doing to a rental market? Is new hotel construction keeping up with demand? And then it's the concern. So in some cases, it's more, are tourists being priced out? And what harm does that do to the local economy? But that's a different subject. The Mm-hmm. Just bringing when ships can come in and out of the city because they do not want to damage the place any further than it has been damaged over the years by that. So that's one in terms of just volume of people. And you'll see photos like, you know, it's the urban equivalent of the famous photo of people lined up on Mount Everest to get to the peak, like an actual line of people like they're queuing for a labu labu store opening. And no, that's just how it is with the safe time to travel. And with the cities, of course, it affects much more people that way because you have, for example, I'll just, this is in Barcelona, but the Greek island of Zakynthos, I believe I'm pronouncing that, has a ratio of about 150,000 tourists per 1,000 inhabitants annually.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:So that is a lot. And it's also driving people to try to diversify, to go to other countries. Greek islands, smaller ones that aren't as well traveled. But now that those islands are specifically marketing themselves to get the tourist dollars and stuff from travelers, eventually those are going to fill up. And then what? Everything's going to be filled up. And with Barcelona, I'll just stick with Barcelona because we have a lot of data for Barcelona on hand. It has 1.6 million residents and 32 million visitors annually. And one thing is rents have gone up about 10% every year. since the pandemic, give or take, and income is only growing by less than half of that. So that is not keeping up at all. And that is causing a backlash, of course, against rentals and even hotels. And there's been protests against that. People have not been targeted for violence, but there have been reports of tourists getting sprayed with water pistols,
SPEAKER_03:which
SPEAKER_02:is not something you really want if traveling, obviously, and someone pulls out a pistol that looks like a gun, that would be rather terrifying, wouldn't it? You can't assume it's a cartoon war gun thing. It's
SPEAKER_01:interesting. It's very eye-opening, the stats you show or talked about there. It seems to me, though, and this just popped into my head, I come from a cruise line background, and it used to be maybe 20 years ago, this wasn't a problem because there was always the tourist areas of destinations right and I go back to my cruise line days where people would say well that's the cruise ship price because there's a cruise ship in town so the prices would go up and then when the cruise ship left they would go back down to normal and if you went away from the touristy areas prices for the locals would be lower and it seems to me that now since the Airbnb age where people get away from the tourist areas and are actually staying and living with with, or not living, but staying with the regular locals, that's causing the prices to go up. Any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that is valid, especially because those areas were never meant to absorb the number of tourists. So for example, just for the 10 top tourist destinations EU, in the past, since the pandemic, we're talking more than double growth from pre-pandemic. So it has picked back up. And every year, it basically, it's over 200 million. In terms of where people are staying, it's still mostly hotels like three quarters of that is hotels absorbing that so that's expected that's built in however the other 25 percent would be homestays airbnbs like you mentioned and considering the sheer number of people where they're going at 25 percent in areas that were never meant to really cater to tourists is causing a lot of the problems because it's just the volume has increased so much that it's like in the past it would be maybe a Esoteric people, maybe people with extended families. Now you have people who would normally be staying at the Hyatt doing this. Exactly. Yeah, no one ever expected it. 10, 15 years ago, that wasn't a thing. It just didn't happen.
SPEAKER_01:And I used to live in a tourist town as well. And, you know, like there's always the small minority of people that make it bad for the rest, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm talking about tourism or tourist behaviors. And I guess to a certain degree, tourists are themselves to blame for their behavior.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that is a lot of that. You know, you'll see like the infamous of, you know, traveling sports fans, for instance, is I think lumped in with this a lot. Because, I mean, that is... I mean, if you are traveling for a game for a few days and staying in a hotel or an Airbnb, you're part of that general tourist group, even if you're only there for a sporting event. And if some kind of fight happens at the pubs, then people are not going to be really happy about that. And that's the huge mess of trashes that gets left behind everywhere. That is another thing that picks it up. Like city services in the age of post-COVID budget crunch from austerity stuff. It's hard to keep up with. keeping the place clean, even in areas that are, you know, known for being tourist destinations and people are, you know, generally as careless as ever with disposing of their stuff. And yeah, people resent that too. They like having a nice clean city. They don't like it being splattered with empty beer cups.
SPEAKER_01:So is the solution just to find a different destination and the numbers will even out and the issues solved? Like, what do you think? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That probably won't be as effective, because like I said, eventually those places will start to fill up as well, and they'll encounter the same problems in that they never were meant to accommodate this volume of people. Even though it would be a trickle, it would still just be, you know, if you drop 15 people in a town of 100, that is a huge disruption compared to if you drop 15 people in a town of 1,000. It's nothing. So that is one issue, and I think I think one thing we're going to see more is there's just going to be more restrictions on people going to these destinations in terms of making it more expensive, which will probably discourage some travelers. Mm-hmm. No one's going to be employing you in the services industry if there's no one coming for services. restrictions on Airbnb is like that is probably where there's going to be the most crackdown on just because of pressure from people whose rents are going up. They're just not going to be happy about that, even though it's not entirely clear how much restricting that would improve the housing situation in these places, because the only real solution is just to build more housing. Much easier just to increase tourism taxes and restrictions on times for rentals. But all of that would require a big state budget increase. And this isn't a time where the money exists for that without raising taxes, which would be even more unpopular than housing shortages. So it's difficult to me. It's basically just going to be incremental. And these places are, again, they rely on the tourism. They can't really opt out of that unless they just don't want to be big destinations anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it is a tough balance, right? Yeah, you do want the tourism dollars, but you don't want too many tourists. There's almost this diminishing returns
SPEAKER_02:kind of aspect. Apparently, Barcelona does have a problem with new construction that there is not nearly enough of it. And that's something that, well, that's not anything tourists can do about that. They can't vote in a Spanish election for more housing.
SPEAKER_01:Just personally, though, I don't like crowds. So traveling in the summer to Europe or places like that, I would rather avoid the crowds and go in fall. Same. I also prefer to go
SPEAKER_02:closer to an off season.
SPEAKER_01:And more people are doing that. One of
SPEAKER_02:the buzzwords in this is coolcation, which is people wanting to get away from the hot summers, even though that's when traditionally people travel, and go to places like at the very start of the season or the end of the season, or even try to go to more cold weather destinations now just to experience it. the cold weather experience rather than the hot summers. And I guess that, you know, winter sports, hiking, stuff like that, more indoor stuff as well. So that is happening. And that is the word used for it, cool-cations. I have it in my notes from our, you know, what it is being called.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Paul Mutter is an interesting topic, I got to say. A lot of good insights into your research. Paul Mutter, he is a research analyst with Riskline Thank you. And that is our show for this week. If you have comments or questions, we'd love to hear from you. If you have a show idea, send that along as well. My email is randy at theinformedtraveller.org. And if you like what you heard, tell a friend. You can check out our website too at theinformedtraveller.org. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Travel safe and be an informed traveller.