Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast. We are bringing you the story shaping Church of Christ congregations and members around the world. Here is our host, BT Irwin.
BT Irwin:Family and friends, neighbors and, most of all, strangers. Welcome to the Christian Chronicle Podcast. May what you are about to hear bless you and honor God. According to the latest research, about one in four Americans and one in eight persons worldwide is living with mental illness in some form. So the odds are strong that someone sitting next to you in the pew on Sunday morning is struggling with mental health. It may even be the person you least expect, the one who is always smiling and seems to have it all together.
BT Irwin:Our guest today, marie Strotter, may have been one such Christian that is active, involved and leading by example at church, but struggling with mental health all the same.
BT Irwin:Over the last 20-plus years, she has been an active member of Church of Christ congregations in California and Texas, where she is now a member of the Westside Church of Christ in Killeen. In addition to raising and homeschooling three kids, two adopted, she also threw herself into the many kinds of volunteer activities that devoted Christian mothers and wives often do for the church. But even as she did so much to lift the lives of so many in her circle, marie struggled with mental health. In a minute you'll hear her story in her own voice. Not only that you'll hear how Marie is turning her own mental health challenges into a ministry to those who also bear this burden while trying to live the Christ life and, as I said a moment ago, there are many who bear this burden, myself included. Marie is here to tell us her story and talk about how she joined God in a ministry to those who are living with mental illness. Marie, thank you for opening up your life and ministry to us today.
Marie Stroughter:Thank you so much for having me.
BT Irwin:Okay, well, let's start by defining a key term for our conversation. What do we mean by mental health or mental illness? I think maybe Christians sometimes interpret these words as meaning crazy, not crazy, or deranged or not deranged, that kind of thing. What are we talking about when we talk about mental illness and its converse, mental health?
Marie Stroughter:Well, given that one in four people suffer from some sort of mood disorder or mental health condition, the likelihood that you know someone who does have one of these conditions is pretty high. And I see it more as a continuum, if you will. On one end you have sort of situational issues like a death or a loss of some sort, or the loss of a job or a divorce, a move, those sorts of things that, generally speaking, with time and sometimes therapy or medication, clear up. Then you have sort of the low-grade dysthymia, which is the kind of common cold of depression, which is this really low-grade depression that runs in the background. And then you have the full continuum through neurodivergent conditions such as autism.
Marie Stroughter:Continuum through neurodivergent conditions such as autism, those sorts of things, all the way to the things that most people probably think of when they think of mental illness, like schizophrenia or some of the other more obvious types of mental illness, where people say things that don't have a semblance of where they're disconnected from reality.
Marie Stroughter:Things that don't have a semblance of where they're disconnected from reality, but generally speaking that one in four. If you are in a smaller congregation, say, of 100 people, that's 25 people and if you've looked around, you know, or a larger congregation of 300 people, that's 75 people. You're probably not going to see the more extreme cases. You're probably going to see more of the lower grade or situational things such as mood disorders, those kinds of things. So there is, I believe, a continuum and with those statistics the odds, as I said, are pretty high that you know someone, and that's why it's pretty disturbing to me that we don't discuss it much more than we do and the fact that these types of issues tend to lead sometimes to other issues, such as addictions, where people are trying to mask the symptoms of, let's say, adhd or some other sort of issue, mental health issue. They tend to mask them with addictive behaviors.
BT Irwin:Tell me about how your understanding of mental health and mental illness has changed or developed through the years.
Marie Stroughter:I wouldn't say that it's perhaps changed. I think that maybe time has changed. Think that maybe time has changed. I'm 60 and I come from the generation after where talking?
Marie Stroughter:about mental health and mental health issues just was not done and so I grew up not having an issue talking about ADHD. I have a cousin who has ADHD, those kinds of things. That was pretty, I think, standard. But the generation before did not do that. So parents, caregivers around me, it was kind of the suck it up and lift your stuff up by your own bootstraps sort of generation and that wasn't very helpful for me. I was a bit of a handful, so I needed a little bit more support than that.
Marie Stroughter:So I think, having come from that experience where I didn't get exactly what I needed from those around me because I don't think they were able to do that culturally, I think that that led me more to speaking out and, as you mentioned, having been a Christian in the church for a while, going to services with a lot of those older folks that didn't talk about it, and you know we lived through the Great Depression, so you know we lived through all these really difficult times and you know you young whippersnapper just you know, buckle up. So I did hear a lot of really hurtful things and, as you mentioned, being a leader in the church, my husband was a deacon and is now an elder, as being under the microscope, I often heard hurtful comments again, such as the you know, buck up, it's kind of all in your head, which it is literally all in your head, others. So that's kind of not necessarily that my views have changed, but my militancy, if you will, in educating others. Because those comments when you're dealing with the depression and you know this, given your own situation you're stuffing down a lot of your own feelings and trying to mask and fit in already and the mental load is pretty heavy already that you're carrying and then to not want, you're worried about people thinking that you're weird or crazy or deranged, some of those other things, and that you're meeting your load in helping with congregational things, whatever it might be, and then you've got these, uh, mischaracterizations or misinformation as well, and it's just a lot.
Marie Stroughter:I found that it was a lot for me to handle and so I felt that the need to start talking about it and really educating people and that their comments weren't necessarily helpful. I don't think it came from a place of bad intention. I think part of it was culturally again, you know, we don't talk about those things from that generation but also I think that as humans we want to step in and speak and comfort other people, but we don't know what to say, and so it's kind of a Job's friends situation where you know you compound the situation rather than helping it.
BT Irwin:Did you ever get the? You know you talked about the generation. That'd be like you're depressed. I lived through the great depression, but then I'm 49. So people that were a little closer to my age. There's kind of this thing where, well, you should have the joy of the Lord and the peace that passeth, understanding you ought to be able to pray this away. I mean, did you ever get that kind of pressure too, from well-meaning Christians that felt like, hey, if you prayed harder or just submitted more to the peace of Christ, all of this would just go away?
Marie Stroughter:That right there. That statement is probably the one that made me the angriest and had me speaking out because I felt honestly pretty angry about it. If you think about it, we don't say that to people with cancer, we don't say that to people with heart conditions or that have mobility issues or that are suffering dementia. And would prayer help those situations? Of course prayer helps every situation. However, I think people who have mental health issues probably pray more than anyone else because, as I said, that mental load, that masking, trying to do it all with OCD such as I, have that anxiety. You know I don't want to forget anything, so I tend to interrupt because I don't want to forget saying something or you know, whatever it might be, that anxiety drives so much, and so I tend to pray a lot, and so that was kind of insulting. Of course prayer does help, but we don't say it in other situations and I almost went on a rant the other day because I was pretty upset.
Marie Stroughter:I have a couple of friends who are dealing with hospitalization issues and I felt like you know, you can't really I'm not saying you do it to get sympathy, but if I were to say I was diagnosed with breast cancer, people would be, oh, I'm praying for you, I'm so sorry to hear that. Or if I say I lost, you know, a relative, I'm praying for you. But if I say, oh, you know, my husband was diagnosed with schizophrenia, people are like, okay, you know that kind of thing. And so I think you know. A couple of episodes that I've done on the podcast have to do with things not to say and things to say to be helpful, and if you can't think of anything to say, it's like our parents taught us don't say anything at all. I was dealing with someone recently who was going through some issues with a family member and I just put my arm around her and sat with her and cried.
BT Irwin:One of the things that you're touching on here is there's a stigma. So you talked about schizophrenia, for example, and there's a strong stigma attached to that. You know, when we've had people in our family that had cancer, I would go forward and ask for prayer. That had cancer, I would go forward and ask for prayer. At our congregation we have a strong prayer ministry where there are people standing at the four corners of the auditorium and you can go every week and ask for prayer if you want. And there were times where I would go forward almost every week to ask for prayer for these family members who had cancer.
BT Irwin:Or you know someone in our own family who had job loss or was having trouble in school, something like that. But I feel like to go forward and say my doctor said I have mild anxiety and mild depression, right? Or I have this mental health issue. I'm confessing here, I'm admitting that I feel like, well, nobody really wants to hear about that. I really shouldn't burden people with that. You know that's just something I got to work through on my own, and so I feel like there's a stigma there where we don't even share that with the church because we feel like we ought to just be able to get over it.
Marie Stroughter:When you are under that scrutiny, under the microscope, get over it. When you are under that scrutiny, under the microscope there are members of the congregation. I think if anyone listening to this were to look around, it's generally the same group of people that are involved in most of teaching Bible classes. Whatever it might be right, there's that core group of people and so people tend to think that if you are strong, you don't need the support that you lead, for example, and that you don't need strength. But I think people who are strong I mean the scripture that says iron sharpens.
Marie Stroughter:Iron is there for a reason that we all need to support each other. And we tend to look at the brothers and sisters that you know tend to come forward with the same sin over and over and over or whatever it might be, and sisters that you know tend to come forward with the same sin over and over and over or whatever it might be, or that you know really have some unique challenges. But how often do we pray for our elders' families, deacons' families, preachers' families, whoever it might be? You don't know what goes on behind the scenes, how often they're called on to do things, and you know, 24 hours a day, which is a joy to serve others Don't get me wrong, but need that support and they struggle too, just like anyone else. We're human, just like anyone, so anything that you know, you who are listening, go through. Our families do too.
BT Irwin:So how much would you be willing to share about your own mental health story, marie? This ministry that you're doing now grew out of your own mental health story, and so what could you tell us about that? You've alluded to it a couple of times already in this conversation.
Marie Stroughter:Well, my very earliest memories are fraught with anxiety. I mean from very early childhood kindergarten actually I had horrific school anxiety, to the point where now, as an adult and having had a number of diagnoses, I can see it for what it was. It was a full-fledged panic attack. I mean hysteria where I just could not function. And OCD is an anxiety-based disorder. It is where the amygdala has the fight or flight switch constantly set to on.
Marie Stroughter:And if you look at scans, of brains you can see someone who has O fight or flight switch constantly set to on. And if you look at scans of brains, you can see someone who has OCD or ADHD or PTSD or some of these other conditions, and you can see where the areas are very different from a brain that is a typical brain, someone who doesn't have these conditions. So the amygdala is broken. So that means there's this state of hyper arousal that doesn't ever go away, where you think that your life is in danger and so you're just on guard, hyper vigilant, and it is an exhausting way to live, and so my very earliest memories are having that full-fledged panic attack around school. I still suffer from social anxiety, even though now I have the formal diagnoses of OCD as the anxiety base. But also there's the chronic depression.
Marie Stroughter:I was bullied. Shortly after that, there were three years where I was in school where I was bullied to the point of being beaten up and harassed every day. And it wasn't in our school climate now, where cyberbullying is a bad thing and you report it to your teachers, you know snitch kind of thing. And so I was bullied for three years. And so I remember coming home from school around 11 years old and just crying all afternoon from school, around 11 years old and just crying all afternoon just crying. So I've got my formal diagnoses, like you did in college for depression, but it would still be a couple decades yet before I got the OCD diagnosis and that's pretty hard.
BT Irwin:So how have you worked through this and how has God led you through this? And I'm trying to ask this in a very particular way. I mentioned my ADHD diagnosis. I suffered from debilitating panic attacks for a stretch of years where I couldn't even leave my room, leave my room. So I can imagine just a little bit what that's like, having gone through it myself, and what I can say is it doesn't ever really leave you, right. I never tell anybody. Well, I'm cured, that stuff's all gone. Now I'm totally over that. God delivered me. I still live with it, but I live with it, and God has been gracious to me. And so how have you, how has God walked with you through this? This is a part of you, this is a part of who you are and it's part of what makes you who you are. How has God walked with you and how has the church been a part of you, learning how to live your best life being who you are?
Marie Stroughter:So that verse, my grace, is sufficient for you I take as my verse. I really do believe that God does work with imperfect people. He has always worked through imperfect people, because there is no one who is perfect. But you know, I was talking to my youngest son, who has ADHD and we were talking about, in some ways it's kind of like a superpower. There are some blessings in this condition, with OCD, that anxiety that doesn't want you to ever forget it. I am very detail oriented and often you know I'm very quick to perform tasks and sometimes it's to my own detriment because people think I'm a lot more organized and efficient than I really am. That it's the anxiety that's fueling that, rather than any kind of efficacy on my part or whatever it might be. So there are blessings inherent in it and I've learned to embrace those. I've learned to find those nuggets where it has helped me.
Marie Stroughter:But also, as I mentioned in the pre-show where you and I were talking, my two youngest children were adopted through Children's Homes. I want to give them a plug. They are affiliated with the Brotherhood. Any good that you can do for Children's Homes, please look them up in Paragould, help them out. They do wonderful work. But I did adopt my two youngest children and both of them do have mental health conditions and so I think it was when we adopted them that I really embraced the mantle of the mental health challenges that I had, because I said, if I had to go through them, I felt blessed in the sense that it helped me to be able to better relate and better support them and understand what they're going through, because, as I mentioned, I didn't feel like I got that from the caregivers and adults in my life going through it. But my kids feel that support and understanding from me and so if I had to go through it, it was a blessing.
BT Irwin:So that's your own mental health story. You mentioned at the top of the conversation that one in four Americans have some mental health issue that they're going through. You've been very involved in your congregations over the years and you mentioned that when you're an elder's family or a deacon's family or a minister's family, you know a lot about the people in the church that maybe others don't know. So tell us about kind of the need that you have seen among the folks in the pews over the years working in congregations. What kinds of things have you found out about the people that you go to church with and some of the mental health issues that they're confronting in their lives?
Marie Stroughter:The gamut, miscarriages, women who have gone through miscarriages, as I have, have been able to counsel and I would consider that on the situational end of things, so anything that you could name, as I said, the continuum of situational issues all the way through serious mental health diagnoses involving hospitalizations I have been involved with and counseled people through and helped with, and so it is truly an issue and I think that we need to be more aware of people. You know when Jesus talked about how you know well, when did we see you naked? When did we see you hungry? When did we see you naked? When did we see you hungry? When did we see you?
Marie Stroughter:I think that that's one of those situations where there are people who feel in the congregation, invisible, as you alluded to, where you felt like you couldn't tell people what was going on with you, and that was a situation that could have used prayer, where you could have used support, someone to stand alongside you. These are situations where we could pray for people and we don't because we don't know about it, because of the stigma around talking about some of those issues.
BT Irwin:So just because you see a need doesn't mean you have to be the person to do something about it. But you did see a need for helping people work toward and maintain mental health and you decided that it should be you to do something about it. How did God call and equip you to join God in this ministry?
Marie Stroughter:Well, I'll tell you this VT, it was really truly not out of any sort of sense of altruism. I had several significant losses within a very short span of time Two months, three months. I had a number of very significant losses and needed a space to process. I start the day either reading scripture or posting some scripture, just something to start your day off with the right thoughts, because, as you may know, when you start the day off wrong, it tends to just kind of snowball. And so I just thought focusing on scripture, focusing on God, focusing something positive to hold on to for your day, might be helpful. It was helpful for me to process these losses. Maybe it's helpful for others, and I got some feedback pretty early on that it was helpful.
BT Irwin:So you put out a Motivational Moments or Momo podcast episode every day or every weekday.
Marie Stroughter:Every weekday. That's a lot of work. That's a lot of work. I don't think people know.
BT Irwin:So how do you keep fresh stuff flowing from? You to your listeners.
Marie Stroughter:You know it's, it's hard. Uh, I, I'm, I, my muse, if you will, uh, is a very reclusive muse. Uh, she doesn't appear always, and so I can't batch episodes, even though they're five minutes, I can't batch them. It's like law and order, tink, tink, ripped from the headlines of my life. So whatever is going on in my life, you will hear about it, and so I tend to really talk.
Marie Stroughter:I'm very vulnerable, very open. I talk about OCD, I talk about the low frustration, tolerance. You know, I talk about a lot of different things and I'm very open, very vulnerable, because I don't think that you can have these conversations without that transparency in yourself, so that other people I think other people, as we talked about look at you on the outside as kind of pretty, put together, pretty articulate. But you don't seem like you look at you on the outside as kind of pretty, put together, pretty articulate. You don't seem like you're mentally ill, you know kind of thing, and so it is to give it a face of, as I said, the people that you worship with.
Marie Stroughter:You're in a congregation of you know a couple hundred. Then you're dealing with 50 people. Who are those 50? Could you name them? You probably couldn't, because they don't look any different than you do. So I wanted to show that, even though there are times where I do feel you know pretty out there and pretty different, that generally speaking, unless you really really know my life, you may not know some of these things, and to show that average everyday one in four person, that isn't on the extreme end of the continuum that we talked about.
BT Irwin:What do you hope God will do with this podcast and with your ministry? What do you hope God will do for God's people and those who are seeking hope as they may be struggling with mental health?
Marie Stroughter:Every day, before I get in front of this microphone, I pray to God about the episode and I always say, all of thee, none of me, all of thee, none of me. I really do believe that if it is something that he wants me to continue, he will make the way for it to continue, and if it's not, he will close that door. So as long as he continues to keep it open, I will continue to do this until I can't do it anymore, or I don't believe it is something that is the path for me anymore. I am getting older, maybe looking at retirement at some point, so I have a little bit more time. It's hard working as I do and doing this on top of that, plus the work that we do for the church. So you know, as you mentioned, it is time consuming.
Marie Stroughter:But I would like to grow the podcast because I do believe that there are people that are struggling silently, that don't feel that they have someone that they can relate to, someone that they can talk to. But here's this voice that comes over the airwaves every weekday to tell you you're not alone, you can do it. You can just get through today, don't worry about tomorrow, don't worry about next week. Just get through today. Come on, we're going to talk about it, let's just process it.
BT Irwin:We are going to put the links to the Momo podcast and Momo 634 in the show notes so you can check that out.
Marie Stroughter:You can check that out If someone's listening to this today, marie and they think they or someone they know is struggling with mental health. What are your parting words to them? Well, first of all, I would be there for that person. Let them know that you are there, if you really are there. I know a lot of times people say, well, call me anytime. That's kind of something that we do say, but I say that and I mean it. So offer what you can, whether it's watching someone's children for a few minutes so they can nap or bathe or do something, a care package, giving them dinner, whatever it might be to help, but ask them what can I do to support? You might be to help, but ask them what can I do to support you? As I mentioned, I have some episodes that talk about what to say, what not to say. Just be there, show up. But if it is a situation where someone is making statements about self-harm or those sorts of things, there's 988, the suicide crisis line, I believe it's 988. But call a suicide crisis line someone who is a professional. Get them to see the need for professional help, that sort of thing.
Marie Stroughter:I am not a counselor, my major was psychology, but I am not a practitioner. I'm not a licensed practitioner and I'm pretty open about that on the show, but it does need the, just as if you had diabetes or high blood pressure, any sort of thing. Talk to someone who is a medical care professional If you don't like the idea of medication, someone who is a naturopath or something like that. We have God's pharmacy available to us. There are a lot of herbs and supplements and those sorts of things that I found helpful because medications have not worked for me traditionally, but there are some supplements that are very helpful. But do consult with someone who might be able to assist you professionally. There are online support groups. There are Christian support groups. There are Christian support groups. There are Christian mental health counselors. So if you find that you are in need or know someone who is in need, urge them to get professional help and get diagnosed.
BT Irwin:Well, marie Stratter is founder and host of the Motivational Moments or MOMO for short podcast that comes out every weekday. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. Marie, thank you for opening up to all of us today, not only with your own story, but with your ministry of compassion and love to so many of us who need it. Grace and peace to you.
Marie Stroughter:Thank you so much, bt to you. Thank you so much, bt. I really appreciate you for offering to have me on the podcast, and to all your listeners for tuning in today and for the Christian Chronicle for taking note of this particular important issue.
BT Irwin:It's been our pleasure, thank you. We hope that something you heard in this episode encouraged, enlightened or enriched you in some way. If it did, thanks be to God and please pay it forward. Subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend. Recommend and review it wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Your subscription, recommendation and review help us reach more people. Please send your comments, ideas and suggestions to podcast at christianchronicleorg and don't forget our ministry to inform and inspire Christians and congregations around the world is a non-profit ministry that relies on your generosity. So if you like the show and you want to keep it going and make it even better, please make a tax-deductible gift to the Christian Chronicle at christianchronicleorg. Slash donate Until next time. May grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Holly Linden:The Christian Chronicle Podcast is a production of the Christian Chronicle Inc. Informing and inspiring Church of Christ congregations, members and ministries around the world since 1943. The Christian Chronicle'saging Editor is Audrey Jackson, editor-in-chief Bobby Ross Jr and President and CEO Eric Trigestad. The Christian Chronicle Podcast is written, directed, hosted and edited by BT Irwin and is produced by James Flanagan in Detroit, michigan, usa.