Clayton Reid, Chairman of MMGY, speaks about the importance of being intentional in your career choices and being committed to the long-term success of goals and finding people who share your commitment level. He speaks to the importance of sacrifice and acknowledges the challenges that puts on work-life balance. He shares his personal and his company’s willingness to challenge conventional thinking and the importance of trusting your instincts and not letting perfection get in the way of progress. He encourages individuals to own their position and express their point of view with confidence. He expresses optimism for the travel industry and encourages everyone to reexamine their biases and take a fresh look before making decisions.
Clayton Reid, Chairman of MMGY, speaks about the importance of being intentional in your career choices and being committed to the long-term success of goals and finding people who share your commitment level. He speaks to the importance of sacrifice and acknowledges the challenges that puts on work-life balance. He shares his personal and his company’s willingness to challenge conventional thinking and the importance of trusting your instincts and not letting perfection get in the way of progress. He encourages individuals to own their position and express their point of view with confidence. He expresses optimism for the travel industry and encourages everyone to reexamine their biases and take a fresh look before making decisions.
Greetings. I am Dorothy Dowling, a principal of D E I advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to personal empowerment. I am delighted to welcome Clayton Reid to our d e I show. Clayton is a chair of M M G Y and is an industry change maker and has dedicated his career to our industry. Last year I had the pleasure of introducing Clayton when he was recognized by the hospitality sales and marketing organization with a lifetime achievement award for his contributions to our industry. clayton, welcome. It is truly an honor to have you with us today.
Clayton Reid:Hello, Dorothy. Thank you for having me. Excited to chat with you. Wonderful. I also love the way you say organization. A true Canadian thank you, Make you feel warm inside
Dorothy Dowling:Clayton you've been amazing trailblazer in terms of your career, and you've added incredible value to the industry as well as your company, M M G Y. Can you share your journey at M G Y and how you moved up the ladder to lead the business, as well as how you built MG M G Y? From a small agency of 30 teammates to a global agency with. 600 teammates. Yeah,
Clayton Reid:sure. I think p part of it was I was promoted outta jobs. I couldn't do very well and I just kept moving up that way. And that's the truth if you ask anybody, I, it's funny, we were just having this conversation about being intentional about a career and you and I just recognized Peter Strebel for his lifetime achievement award this week. And he's such a great example of someone who is intentional about his career. Really spent the time and invested the time over a long number of years to be successful. And I think that's what happened with me and our company. I think being intentional about travel, grinding it out every day, being fully committed matters. Because when times get tough, as they always do, when you're growing a company, you have to be committed. If you're not committed, you pull the parachute and you go do something else. And I, we were talking about this because we. that it seems like that happens now with some young people that they're not fully committed and there might be some balance to that, but and a career built. But for me and for our company, I think it was that commitment, intentionality that made us successful because we did go from 25 people to now 600 globally, and we did it over 40 years. And we did it by staying true to the travel industry. And by seeing through what were a lot of hard times, knowing that, no, this is what we want to do. and you you hear a lot of the I don't know if they're cliches, but this notion that higher around you to your weaknesses bring people in that are smarter than you. All those things. And that's certainly true in our company, but I also think it's about finding people who are equally committed to what you're trying to accomplish. And sometimes I think that's harder today than it was back when we were building our company. So I think that has a lot to.
Dorothy Dowling:And to be honest, Clayton, I just hearing about that intentionality and that drive that has powered your growth, I think is really a lesson for all of us because we often talk about destination careers and making that choice, but it ha it is quite an amazing journey that you have in terms of just the growth of your industry. And as I said to you earlier, I was really proud of you last week at the H S M A I awards because it's just so clear how MMGY has embedded itself. In every part of the industry and the respect that you have garnered from everyone. So congratulations on this amazing career that you have. That's really
Clayton Reid:nice of you to say. I think you and I both live through oh 2 0 3. We both live through oh 9, 0 8, 0 9. We obviously had to make it through Covid, and that's the point is when you're committed to one industry, you figure out a way to get through it. And I actually think the people in our company, the senior people in our company, benefited in some ways from the challenges. They think about the business differently, they become thought leaders in their own way. And I think that tends to attract clients and partners who wanna be a part of that. And you've lived a very similar career. I think, that level of intentionality matters.
Dorothy Dowling:I think it's what really brings that wisdom of experience that helps people power through all those challenging times. Yeah. So one of the things you shared with me was this component of your business success was not allowing perfection to get in the way of progress. Can you expand a little bit on that decision, on the mindset?
Clayton Reid:I think the twist on that is people who say, fail fast or they, test and learn all those. we have, I, it's somewhat disingenuous, to some people, but this whole idea of, 99.9% is sometimes okay, and sometimes even 90 percent's. Okay. And that idea that if you do labor over perfection, you often miss opportunities. And I think, the innovation, the idea that you can grow business does mean that you have to move quickly sometimes. And what I found we struggle with as we've grown because we've. As I say, we, in the early days, we were lucky to squeeze out a million dollars a year in net revenue. Now we do a hundred million dollars of net revenue. you fight against the bureaucracy and the hierarchical structures, and this notion that you're now managing instead of innovating. And I think it's still true today, that you have to still try to move quickly without focusing on every possible angle, thinking about every possible contingency, and instead just using sometimes still your instincts to make decision. And I think that becomes harder as an organization gets larger, people become more risk averse. They intend, they sometimes spend too much time evaluating something as opposed to in the younger days of a company, just doing the things you know are right, that are gonna be successful for clients, partners, your own business. So I think that's part of what we mean when we talk about don't let perfection get in the way of progress. Well,
Dorothy Dowling:and I think the criticality of that with our industry is even more, important. Clayton, because particularly on the hotel side, the room is a perishable inventory. So for us to be able to move at the speed to make sure we make the sale and again, that's where I always think that strength of the wisdom that you bring to the industry and that balance of urgency in terms of making measured. Decisions, but also making sure you don't miss the opportunity to close business for whoever you're working
Clayton Reid:by. Yeah, it's so true. I was listening to an interview last night on Fresh Air at NPR with a New York Times reporter who's writing a story about the Fed called Limitless. Her name escapes me at the moment. Gina's her first name, Smilic I think. But anyway, she was talking about predatory. Mar predatory consumer brands who are taking advantage of inflation to charge more than they need to be profitable. And she specifically was talking a little bit about the hotel industry that we've pushed up rates so far, so fast. My response to that is it's a free enterprise environment. Like we, we should be able to charge whatever we can charge. and to be able to quickly move into that. I think hotel industry has been so much better than it's been in past decades in terms of quickly moving to the opportunity, whether it be the technology that supports that opportunity, whether it be new yield management practices, whether it be sales teams that can move more quickly to price the market pro appropriately. I actually felt really good about how hotel industries responded. Not everybody agrees with that because obviously we're at historically high rates for products up and down that the hotel. Spectrum, but in past decades, and I would point to oh 8, 0 9, and oh 2, 0 3, I think the hotel industry actually lagged in some ways. So anyway, that's a little bit of a tangent, but I do think we deserve some credit as an industry for getting smarter and smarter about the way we address these opportunities and challenges.
Dorothy Dowling:And I think that's the perfect way to express it, is really that business intelligence is really enabling the industry to be smarter and demand is far an excessive supply right now. So managing those dynamics is critical to the business in terms of its health. So I appreciate you calling that out. I know in your office you have this poster that I spoke about with you and it really struck me because you said, it says sanity is a playground of the unimaginative and I know that's something that really drives you. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how it inspires you, that framework.
Clayton Reid:Me and others, some people know me about, I'm a little bit of an oddball. I don't, I feel like we've built our company trying not to take ourselves too seriously, and that axiom, which still hangs in my office today, that sanity is, the pro, the province of the unimaginative basically means we have to push it a little bit in terms of having fun, being a bit zany. taking risks on ideas. And it goes back to our conversation earlier about especially as you become bigger, continuing to try to find ways to innovate and move quickly and be rapid in the way you think about your business. So we try to inspire that in the people who work in the company that it's funny, I was on the, on with a friend of mine who's a client as well, and he was talking to me about a very young social media manager we just hired in the company. And her very first day on the job, she was on a call with he, the c e o of this client and she was stepping up with some really interesting ideas and he was talking about how he so much appreciated that someone junior and new to the job was willing in that environment. To say what she thought. And I think that's a testament to how our management team thinks about this and that, it's okay to step in like that and sometimes you're wrong and sometimes it might seem a little kooky to people, but at the end of the day, what are we doing here? I think that's a part of how we wanna be seen and how the way we operate our business. So yeah, it is a, it's an axiom. I think it's pretty fun to think about.
Dorothy Dowling:And you really bring that. And that courage to really empower your team to take those kinds of risks and add that value to the client. So I, I have great respect for that Clayton, cuz that's a cultural decision that you're making a very intentional decisions about. So I think it does add a lot of value to, and I think that's
Clayton Reid:social market. We were purchased by private equity. it for a moment, gave us some pause is this still okay? And fortunately, we have owners that totally embrace it. And now, as I'm no longer running the company. Katie Brisco, our new ceo, absolutely embraces it and pushes it every day even better than I ever could with our team. So it's helped you continue to grow our business,
Dorothy Dowling:something we can all learn from There's another thing that I have always been extraordinarily impressed with you, Clayton, is that you just have this commanding and compelling way. Engaging audiences when you present. I love being in the room when you were on stage, so I don't know if there's any particular tips that you can share with the audience in terms of how you have become such a commanding speaker over your career.
Clayton Reid:Thank you for that compliment, Dorothy. I was horrendous. people could have seen me speak 15 years ago and said, what are you talking about? And I think that it comes down to a couple things. One, getting comfortable with yourself realizing that you don't have to be perfect on stage and that it's okay to have some fun and misstep and being, once you've come to grips with the fact that sometimes it doesn't go perfectly, it makes it so much easier. And I have spent a lot of time watching back presentations I've made. That is something that's really helped me with stage presence, the way you move around a stage, the way you use visual cues, how you make. points sometimes with, if you don't watch yourself back, you don't understand where you're weak in the, in that way. So I think those are huge opportunities for people who are doing more speaking to, to really scrutinize themselves. It's so hard to do, but to really scrutinize yourself. And then I think the other thing is recognize it. At the end of the day, people just wanna be entertained. They don't wanna be preached to, they don't want you to shove a bunch of data down their throats. They. They want you to bring something of value, but at the same time, they just wanna have fun with the narrative. And I think eventually coming to that conclusion where I didn't get up there in a stiff position and just present data and understanding, let's tell some stories. Let's talk about, let's talk about things that are relevant but are more fun. And then most importantly, let's step out and say some bold things that are provocative and may be controversial. Because at the end of the day, I think that gets people talking. So I, to whatever degree I've had success doing that. I think those are some of the things that I've tried to lean on. Well,
Dorothy Dowling:I think there's some really important lessons there because you're right, it's very difficult to go back, particularly look at yourself on a video. But I think that speaks to the intentionality of your career growth, Clayton, is that you have taken the time to do that kind of forensic analysis and be very critical in terms of where you can make improvements. But what I have always loved about you is your storytelling and the way you bring pro provocative thought leadership, because it challenges the audience. To sometimes agree or disagree with you, but it really challenges them to engage. So again, thank you for all the ways that you continue to elevate our thought leadership in the industry with your great speaking.
Clayton Reid:You're welcome. Thank you.
Dorothy Dowling:other part that I would love to hear from you is just the strength of your team leadership because you have really built MMMG to a really unprecedented level that I think in the industry. So you've had an enormous journey in terms of a people leader. You've been able to recruit and retain talent, but it's really this culture of accountability. I would love to hear about, and I think we could all learn from you in terms of how you really distinguish your agency in terms of the value creation you bring to the business partners you work with.
Clayton Reid:Thank you for asking that question. I have four significant mentors in my life professionally. Don Monague, our founder Chris Jarno, who's a dear friend at and retired from Vail Resorts. My friend Bernard Muir at Stanford, who's the athletic director there who's been incredibly important. And then Tom Story, who you know well, who's one of the most important mentors in my life. All four of them taught me the same Which is what you said first, accountability. So holding yourself accountable, holding the people that work for you accountable and being okay with that, knowing that you have to have hard conversations about that and making that a part of normal practice doesn't mean you have to be impolite or in any way degrading, but it does mean hard conversations have to be had. And if you look at their careers, they've all had amazing careers and I think adopted that practice. The other thing. This notion of empowering yourself and the people that work with you to play the roles they're supposed to play. Tom's story told me this years ago about when you run a company or whatever role you're in, own it. Like really own it. Except that you belong, except that you have a voice. And that because you're in the position you are, you should share that voice. And I think that's so important to not only the way you manage people, but the way you allow them to manage their people and stepping into that. So I think, our leadership team, Katie Brisco, our new C e o Craig Comp, our president, and c Hugh McConnell, our C F O, Mia Wise, who's our Chief Resource Officer and our newest hire at the global leadership team, Carla Flannery. All are those kinds of leaders, like they are definitive about what they believe. They're not afraid to share that, but they also give the people that work for them room to do the same. And how else can you create scale in a company? If not, by allowing people to then shine themselves or to create their own responsibilities and give those underneath them it's funny, a lot of companies that can't grow, I think it's often because either the founder or the leader of those companies try to do everything themselves, make every decision themselves come over the top of every little thing, and we found. Exactly the opposite, that when you start letting go of those things and delegating them out, scale comes naturally because other people feel empowered to do the work that creates, many hands make light work. And I think the, so those are the things I think, especially from those four people I mentioned have been really important in my
Dorothy Dowling:I do think giving people space to bring their best work is really important. And I do agree with you that as a leader, sometimes you have to give people that room and allow them to fail, and maybe not do it the way that you may have done it, but as long as it really drives to the right business outcomes and supporting them in that journey, I think really is the mark of really great people leaders. And you've been a great example of that for all of us
Clayton Reid:made tons mistakes. I'm glad you're not asking about those
Dorothy Dowling:I would like to move on because I know you're an important source. M G Y is an incredibly important source to the industry in terms of monitoring the environment and understanding where the customer mindset is. But for many of us, it's that real commitment to how do we stay on top of our game? So I'm wondering, your listenership, your readership. Are there important publications or information sources that are really go-to for you to stay on top of your game?
Clayton Reid:Yeah. There are so many good ones. I, every morning I like to read. mainstream business and news media. For me, it's the New York Times and Bloomberg that are pri my primary sources. And then I like to move into travel content, and I always start with skiff. I think what Roth's built at Skiff with his team is unparalleled in terms of aggregation of interesting travel, thought, what's going on in the travel industry. They're phenomenal. But then being able to dig into CoStar, Jan Freitag is somebody who I like to read a lot. I think he's got his r real sense of what's going on in the travel industry and understanding hotels in particular, and then just working your way through the associations. Whether it's clea on the cruise side or aviation industry thinkers. you can, there, there are all sorts of really great vertical publications that have points of view about what's happening in travel. And then I think you have to, for us it's looking at our own data. As Dorothy, we talked to close to 3 million travelers a year. And so we, and we have tools that allow us to dig into that data Where I think our company, and I hope you'll appreciate this. I think we more than almost any other company in the world nailed travel recovery. I think when a lot of other people said travel was not gonna come back as quickly, we continued to say, yes it will. Here's why. And I think it's because we tend to rebuke the traditional look back methods. of how people look at recovery. And instead we're leaning into what people were telling us in their own households. What our travel surveys told us, what our meeting planner surveys told us, what corporate travel planners were telling us, and even what CEOs and company leaders were telling us, which all flash green for us. and I think that's a huge source for us. We have a product where we can drill into that and look at it. And I don't look at it every day, of course, but we try to look at it fairly regularly. And those are important sources for us. And we publish out a lot of this data, whether it's niche studies on disabled travelers or underrepresented communities. Or it's our longstanding 30 plus year old portrait of American Travelers. Those studies are really informative for us in terms of looking truly at travel demand, truly at what's, how travel behavior's changing. So for me, those are the main things.
Dorothy Dowling:And you do have an incredible data landscape in terms of all of the areas that you touch, Clayton. And I know I truly value that because it really does give us very current evaluation of where the customer mindset is. But I do think as you talk about your journey, cuz I was thinking as you were speaking that you talk about let's go to where the customer is reading and try and understand the world from their point of view. Then let's move into the business landscape and think about where all the industry leaders are really looking. How the economy and how consumer buying patterns might be shifting. And then you talk about going specifically into the trades and trying to bring the lens of the customer and the business in terms of each of the verticals that are part of our industry to try to connect the dots. And I personally follow a similar journey to you every morning. I spend a couple of hours, but I do think that allows us to stand off for a game. It brings wisdom. But then the power of all the primary data that you have within your infrastructure. I know now while you are such a commanding speaker, because you bring all that provocative and wisdom to the stage, but it's also just your command of the kind of information that's out there and able to connect the dots for the folks and maybe
Clayton Reid:a little bit of bravery to see through bias, because I still think there's a media bias. You could, you and I could even talk today about, there may be a recession coming, but there's no sign of that in the travel industry. Even corporate and group travel is coming back faster than anybody's talking about, which is exactly what happened with leisure recovery, which is exactly what even is happening in China today. 175 million Chinese will travel outside of China this year. Nobody's talking about the tailwind of that for especially that part of the world. But I still think there's this bias that look back data has created where people aren't seeing the recovery. And while there'll be some kind of recession, I still believe it's a bifurcated recession and travel still won't get hurt to nearly the degree perhaps some other industries will. And I think those biases are still reflected in a lot of kind of mainstream thought. So seeing through that I think is important for all of us.
Dorothy Dowling:I totally agree with you, Clayton, and I think people having your voice and their ear in terms of making sure that we do the right things in supporting the industry recovery, part of which is telling the positive story that you're framing up for us. But it also is very deeply embedded in the economic data that we're seeing. That demand is far exceeding supply, so having the courage to price and continue that pricing power, I. Or industry is going to be critically important to those who
Clayton Reid:missed recovery. Dorothy, on the leisure side, and didn't price to that were punished. The airlines who didn't plan on recovery, who couldn't put enough planes in the air or took planes and crews out of circulation cost them. I, and I think that's where bias has a really serious impact. If you read an author Rutker Breman, he talks. How bias has, he uses an example of social welfare. When you create a bias around people are just looking for handouts, it infects policy, which means we reduce the amount of uplift and support we give to people who truly need it. Same thing in travel. If you have people perpetuating a bias that nobody's gonna travel, We as an industry don't prepare for the people who actually are going to travel. And it has a, it's not just a miss and we can all giggle about it. It's it's a miss that can cost us business and a lot of revenue in the industry. Yeah,
Dorothy Dowling:and I think what I also appreciate, Clayton, is the way that you talk about that structural change has really happened. Coming out of Covid on that demand side for travel, and we do have to listen to the customer and understand group is back. And business travel also is very encouraging in terms of where it's at. It's not fully recovered, but it is close to being fully recovered, so we have to embrace that. Yeah. So I'm wondering if I could go down the path of work like balance, because it is something that's continually debated particularly among career executives in terms of how do they manage some of their personal demands effectively and support their families. So I'm wondering if you can go back to your story of intentionality and how you have really looked at your professional growth and your personal support for your amazing family through that.
Clayton Reid:This is a, this isn't always a popular sentiment, and I'm sure a lot of people who work in our company are glad. I don't run the company anymore, but I actually. Think if you wanna be truly successful building a business or running a company, you have to make sacrifices in terms of work-life balance. I actually don't buy into the notion that we all can have a perfectly balanced work life and still achieve at different levels. I'm totally cool if you wanna have a 50 50 work-life balance and have a fan, fantastic. Personal life and still be successful in your career. But I think if you want to overachieve, thatum sometimes means you have to sacrifice some of your life balance, and I think it's okay to say that out loud and everybody should have the ability to choose one way or the other. For me, I absolutely made sacrifices as I was coming up and building the company. There were lots of things I wish I did do now that I didn't, or things I missed out on because I was working a lot. Is that the perfect cocktail? No, of course not. But I also don't buy this notion. We all have to create work environments now where people only work 35 or 40 hours a week. and that should be good enough for everybody. So I think it's a matter of making choices as a career choices. And if you think about, like you and I worked for people who came up in, in industry in the seventies and then and we learned from them work ethic and certainly it was a different time we had to be in the office to do all our work. Back then, we had no tools that allowed us to do it otherwise. But I think we then informed a whole group of people who came up under us who probably had a similar ethos. Now we have a completely different focus. Some of that's certainly positive, but I, for one, don't think all of it is and I'm here to say that out loud, whether people like it or not. Cuz I think it takes sacrifice. And if you look at some countries that we compete with globally in the United States, or if you look at people who wanna grow their careers and who they're competing with in their peer set, those are choices you're going to make. That will ultimately, there will be repercussions one way or the other
Dorothy Dowling:well, and if I can bring it back to this theme that I'm hearing from you, Clayton, it is that intentionality and making choice. And I also agree with you, I think to achieve outside success, it does require commitment. It does require some of the sacrifices that you certainly have. Given. And that is what has really allowed M G Y and yourself to really achieve some of the success that you have. But it does come down to the choices. And I think if people are very intentional, they make those choices and they can make different choices at different stages in their career based on their personal and their professional needs. But I thank you for saying that out loud because I think it's important for those voices to be
Clayton Reid:heard. It's not the soft, fuzzy answer is it, Dorothy, but it's in my view, it's the honest answer. And I, I think. We have founders in our company who have far more temerity than I ever had. If you think about people like. I dunno, Amanda Hills at Hills Balfour or Claire Griffin at Griff Co. Or Mary Wagstaff who just received an award last week. The intentionality it takes to leave your comfortable workplace and or family work life balance and start a new company from scratch, just yourself, the guts that takes, the nerve that takes, but more importantly, the sacrifice. It takes the long hours if you wanna be successful. That's just the truth yeah. And they're such a great example of that.
Dorothy Dowling:I agree with you and she spoke beautifully at the H S M A I event last week, Clayton, and I do think it's important that people recognize that, I know that I've often talked about that story, about the breakfast plate with the pig and the bacon and the chicken and the egg. And if you really want that success, that level of commitment that the pig demonstrated is quite often what is required to have the kind of growth that you have been able to achieve yes. And Mary and others. So when we think about d e I advisors, the tagline is really about empowering personal success. And I'm just wondering based on a lot of the learnings that you've shared with us today, if there's any final advice that you would like to share with the audience in terms of career, personal growth any other insights,
Clayton Reid:well, Everybody has their own track, and I'm often shy about trying to give any specific personal advice, but the things that helped me, That were instrumental in my career. Number one was finding a career and or an industry I wanted to be committed to. For me, that was the travel industry. Finding mentors that I could really learn from and that I trusted. I mentioned the four that were most important to me, but I've had many. And then the third is surrounding yourself with people that not only can you learn from, which is the old axiom. That people you like, like you wanna be with people. Our company is full of so many great people and very smart people, but they're also people we wanna be around. We have a no asshole rule in our company. We don't, I they're brilliant people, but they're not fun to be around. And what, that's not good. So I think that's the third piece. It's just as I went along, finding people that I wanted to be around that could also teach me. So I think that those are the things I, at least for me, worked.
Dorothy Dowling:And I think those are all really important frames for people to think about, and I do think the joy of work is really powered by those that we have the privilege of working with Clayton. So I, again, that intentionality of your choices that you've made all the way throughout the career is something that I think we can all learn from. Because you have been very decisive about building your business choosing who you wish to work with, and I'm sure the mentors that mentored you through the career saw you as someone. worth investing in because they saw that magic that you certainly brought to the industry. So I'm very grateful. two of
Clayton Reid:the four of'em. Probably Let's help.
Dorothy Dowling:I am incredibly grateful for you taking the time to share your journey with us and all the wisdom that you've imparted to all of us today, Clayton. It really has been a privilege for me. So I thank you on behalf of the audience. Oh, thank
Clayton Reid:you, Dorothea. It's always good to talk to you. Have a great day
Dorothy Dowling:and thank you. And if I may also thank our audience. So if you've enjoyed this interview with Clayton, Please come and visit us on our website because d e i advisors.org where you will see many industry leaders that will empower your knowledge and fuel your spirit. I hope to see you all there again, Clayton. Thank you. See ya. Bye Dorothy. Bye-bye.