Greg shares why technical skills only get you so far, and the actions needed to think at a different level to make yourself more valuable. He explains the right and wrong way to approach a potential mentor and the two key reasons people choose to follow leaders. He shares the difference between being a Rock Star and an All Star, plus why you don’t want to work at a place where you’re the smartest person there.
Greg shares why technical skills only get you so far, and the actions needed to think at a different level to make yourself more valuable. He explains the right and wrong way to approach a potential mentor and the two key reasons people choose to follow leaders. He shares the difference between being a Rock Star and an All Star, plus why you don’t want to work at a place where you’re the smartest person there.
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of d e I advisors and today's advisor is Greg Kennealey, the c e O of Mission Hill Hospitality a K S L Capital Company. Welcome
Greg Kennealey:Greg. Thanks very much. Great to be here. Appreciate you having me.
Lan Elliott:Absolutely. Really glad to have you here and I know when you launched mission Hill in 2021, you put a lot of thought behind Mission Hill's values and how you built your team, and I'm looking forward to hearing a lot about that. Sure. But let's start with your journey to leadership. Sure. Because prior to founding Mission Hill, you were at K S L for 10 years as head of hos hospitality, and you've held a number of key roles in the hospitality industry. Can you share some of the inflection points in your career and maybe one or two skills or traits that you think contributed to your success?
Greg Kennealey:Sure. I'd be happy to, and again, thanks. Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here. So I guess for me, there were three primary transition points in my career looking back. The first was coming out of business school. I had not been in real estate or private equity or hospitality before going to Kellogg, and that was an opportunity for me to learn a lot more about investing in general real estate specifically which launched me on the path that, that I'm still on to this day and. that experience was incredibly valuable. The what's perhaps most interesting, is that, I was in commercial real estate, private equity for a number of years at LaSalle Investment Management, which is the private equity arm of Jones Lang Lasal. Most people who will be hearing this would be familiar with that group. They don't do hospitality. I stumbled into hospitality through a relationship of someone who introduced me to Lawrence Geller, who's the c e o of Strategic Hotels and Resorts. Public at the time, now private. And it just opened my eyes to how amazing the hospitality industry was. And I took a bit of a leap as frankly did he to to give me a job. And and I've been in love with it ever since. Leaving K s l in one sense, up at staying part of the family, in another, Was obviously a big decision. I had a pretty nice role at K S L. was very happy there, but the opportunity to launch Mission Hill and of build something from scratch was incredibly appealing. The opportunity to do that with the friends and teammates that I'd had at K S L is who are now, on my investment committee by board and have them shoulder with me and making this success. it sounds corny, but frankly, a dream come true. I couldn't have scripted anything better, and it's been it's been absolutely great. You had asked about skills or traits that contributed to that. Honestly for me finding something that I had a, it sounds corny too, but finding something that you're genuinely passionate about, hospitality industry is amazing. I think that's why nobody leaves. And I was, better lucky than good. I found it more through happenstance than skill. but that makes it a lot easier to get up every day and work hard. And most, especially my role at Mission Hill, I get a lot of energy and benefit from like building a team and leading a team that's super fun for me and incredibly rewarding. And obviously building Mission Hill from scratch has been a big effort, but that part of it has been really fun and I've enjoyed it. Yeah,
Lan Elliott:I we've heard from a few people who have stumbled into hospitality and then stay in the industry and we love that. So
Greg Kennealey:yeah. Why would you ever leave
Lan Elliott:So you have a really um, interesting story about how you selected Mission Hill's. Name, which is quite personal to you. Could you share where the name comes?
Greg Kennealey:Sure. Yeah. It is personal to me on, on, on two different levels. So Mission Hill is the name of a neighborhood in Boston. Not a particularly famous one. But it's a gritty neighborhood, frankly. That has been the landing spot for immigrants coming to America for generations back in the late 18 hundreds and early 19. Some of those people happen to be named Keneally. But that neighborhood was, popular for Irish and German back in that timeframe. It's transition and it is still a landing spot to this day for immigrants from other parts of the world. But what's really neat to me about that neighborhood, and which is why I selected the name, is that, people arrived there with, grit and determination and resiliency and not much. And and then, work hard and create a better life for themselves and the family that follows'em. And that's certainly been the story for my family. But I think what's really neat about that is that it's the story of so many people in our industry, right? I My grandparents worked in jobs like housekeeping, l laundromat, short order cook, factory worker, et cetera. My parents were the first to go to college. My brothers and I are fortunate enough to all have postgraduate degrees. And I see that story playing out in our industry where, many of the people working housekeeping or in the laundromat or stewarding, when our hotels are on that first rung of the economic ladder and they're working hard to create a. A better life for themselves and their family to follow. And I just love that about our industry. And so the idea of taking things that I value very much about, about my family history and things I love and value about our industry and finding a name that represented both was irresistible to.
Lan Elliott:And I love also that in telling that story, you actually have hospitality in your family going back a couple generations. But we did. There was actually hospitality even back then.
Greg Kennealey:Yes, indeed.
Lan Elliott:So one of the things we've talked about is how you're very intentional in how you build your team, and I particularly like that you started by articulating your company's ideals and values and you use a hi actually use a hiring hierarchy when you are looking to add people to your team. Can you share that with us and how it works when you're looking to hire someone?
Greg Kennealey:Sure. We talk a lot about the fact that the most important decision anyone here will ever make is who we choose is our teammates. And so we've been very selective and very intentional about that. They're. There were, there was nobody that sort of came with me from K S L, so we were hiring from scratch. And different people in different organizations have very different philosophies on this. We talk about a hierarchy and for us, the hiring har the hiring hierarchy, excuse me, has character at the top. That is the most important factor for us. Then comes. And what I mean by talent, these are innate abilities. These are not things you can learn. These are innate attributes or abilities that you have. And then third is skills and experience. And obviously to be successful here, you need to have all three. But our interview process, our screening process is starting with character, right? Because if you don't have that, we're. if you don't have that in talent, yeah. You're probably not gonna work in a, in an environment that's, this high performance and this fast paced. So we talk about looking for people who are, honest, smart, and driven. And and when we find people like that, who fit with who we are and what we want to do we, we we find that we work really well together. And, the long hours pass quickly and people get a lot of satisfaction out of it. We also talk about rock stars and all stars. A rockstar is somebody who is great at what they. they like their role. They're happy for that role to to change incrementally over time. But this is what they do. This is who they are. And they're great at that. All stars are, are people who are doing a great job in whatever their role is today, but they're looking to be on a trajectory and, the same person could be one or the other at different points in their career. In many cases, depending on what might be happening in other parts of their but we say that we as an organization need both. Everybody has to be one, but you can't be neither And and we've got a balance of that too. And I think that's been that's been a big factor in our success thus far and in our culture, frankly.
Lan Elliott:Yeah. I love the way you think about, first character, right? That's just not something that you can teach. It either is with the person comes with them, hundred percent innate. And then this concept that people can be rock stars are all stars and it's okay to be either one sure. Within, within your group. So yeah, I think that's great. So talking a little bit about leadership style, now you're the father of three daughters and indeed
Greg Kennealey:right there on the wall behind me,
Lan Elliott:and a self-described diehard feminist, which I love that. I am indeed, and it's great to see. You had mentioned 40% of Mission Hill's team are made up of women. What characteristics and leadership styles are you looking for in your leaders at Mission Hill?
Greg Kennealey:Great question. I guess a number of things come to mind for us. Yep. First of all I'm absolutely a diehard feminist. I can't think of something that I know that I can do, or another male peer of mine can do that. One of my daughters probably at some point won't be able to do better A huge fan of that and a big proponent of it. But, when we're looking individuals, either an individual contributor role or in a leadership role we're looking through the lens. Of two heads are better than one. We're looking for a diversity of viewpoints and perspectives. And, we think that ultimately leads to better decisions. KSL does this incredibly well. It's a relentless r and d process and a digging into digging to help make the best possible decisions. And I've tried to bring that here stylistically. we're looking for leaders and individual contributors who have a very high degree of character and talent and skills and experience, but also a very high degree of humility. That's incredibly important to us. Gratitude is a, is one of our key values and people who demonstrate and live that day-to-day is really important. We are a very competitive. With people out in the external world, not internally, right? We're gonna live and die as a group. We're all aligned in the way we are set up financially. So team comes first. And philosophically, generals eat last, right? You're helping out the people who are in more junior roles first before you're looking for what you need to do for yourself. And philosophically I think. people will follow a leader because they admire their character and or they admire their competence, right? And so our leaders need to demonstrate both, right? A leader with no followers is just a guy taking a walk, right? So like you need to have people in leadership roles here need to have both so that the people who work with them and for them, naturally wanna follow. And if that's not happening naturally in our organization, it's probably not a fit. Makes.
Lan Elliott:That's, so in addition to having a large percentage of women on your team, you also have about 40% of your team made up of people from underrepresented groups typically, which you don't always see in your, your area of the industry. But what I find really inspiring about your company is that. E I is not simply a company initiative, it seems to actually be embedded in your company culture and your mindset. Can you share how that came about and how it impacts your company's performance?
Greg Kennealey:Sure, and agree that it's, I mean we have a d e I initiative like most responsible organizations do today. But the, some of the stats you mentioned and some of the culture things we have are. in my opinion at all, a function of that initiative. They're they've evolved more organically. So you know what's most important to us is is that everybody feel heard, right? So it is, it's more of a mindset than an initiative or a program or something formulaic. And I think that comes out of a couple things. one of our key values is ownership. And unlike most real estate private equity groups that I'm aware of, every single employee here, has a share of the carrier or the promote structure in our economic model and and the majority of our employees are direct personal investors in our, in our portfolio. And that, those two things, I think create an ownership mindset. And I think when you have an owner, when you're an owner, you have a. I'm not an employee. I'm not, the junior person or the senior person. I'm an owner. And and we're small organizations, so we're not that hierarchical and our size allows us to be very transparent. And so when I'm in a company meeting talking about how I was on the hot seat at KSL the other day in a board meeting or whatever, and, here's the challenge. I think it lets people know. We're not gonna get everything right every day. It's not perfect. Here's how the sausage is made and let's all talk about it. And I think that allows for people who might not otherwise feel comfortable I think it, it makes it easier for them to speak up and to share their perspective. And and so that's I think, been a benefit for us. that mindset or that philosophy is not just mine. I think that's shared across the leadership team and the rest of the group. And when we see someone volunteering their opinion or perspective, w and you can tell that it might have been hard for them to speak up in the meeting. Like we try and find ways to positively reinforce that so that it happens more often over.
Lan Elliott:That's really great because I think you said two important things, right? You don't just share the good things, but you'll also share when things aren't going so great, for sure. a, that's a level of vulnerability that not all leaders are willing to do but you do it with purpose. So that it benefits your team. And I also love the part about encouraging people who don't often speak up to do that and to continue to do that. Yeah. And that's not always supported as much as it seems to be at Mission Health. So thank you. Yeah. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk a little bit. Champions and mentors. And how have your champions and mentors advanced your career? And then maybe if you could share, the importance of finding mentors and champions and how one goes about it. Is there a right and a wrong way to do
Greg Kennealey:it? Sure. Yeah. I've been very fortunate. When I made the transition from traditional real estate, private equity to the hotel, Richard Moreau was the c o of Strategic Hotels and Resorts. He was my man and my boss there and was a huge advocate for my career. In fact he called Mike Shaming and Eric Resnick, who were the leaders of K S L Capital to say, essentially hire Greg. When I raised my hand and decided to pursue that opportunity Mike Shannon and Eric Resn would be two others who have been. incredibly gracious with their time and advice for me over the years. And my success is undoubtedly a result of that in a very large way. And yes, to your point think there's definitely a right way and a wrong way to do it. was fortunate to, work closely with those folks. KSL was a lot smaller back then. Strategic was relatively smaller, so you had a lot of day-to-day interaction with senior leaders. But that relationship has to evolve in a way. natural, uncomfortable for both people. And and since some certain roles aren't always a fit, for me I think, now I'm now on the other side of it, it comes with the gray hair. But many leaders I think are really open to those types of relationships. But I think sometimes in the literature it gets misconstrued as something that has to be overly. I, I laugh at these mentoring relationships and you've gotta write up something and I'm gonna meet with you once a quarter. That feels pretty disingenuous to me. I think that, you naturally develop a positive relationship with someone and at a certain point you develop the comfort and the trust to say, Hey, I'm wrestling with this in my career, or I've got this fork in the road. What do you think? But what I also find fascinating is that there are a lot of young people who bemoan the lack of mentors, but then don't actually do the things necessary to develop those relationships. I speak at classrooms on occasion in hospitality or business schools. I did that recently, roughly 40 people in the room. I got follow ups from two, right? In the 10 years, 12 years, I've been associated with KSL capital. ballparking, 50 or 60 associates have come through that organization. Two have invited me to lunch. Now that may be because they don't think what I have to say is valuable, but I don't see them going to lunch with other senior people either. And so I think, 50% of success is showing up and you've gotta reach out and make those initiatives on your own. And I think more often than not, if you do it in a respectful and polite way, it'll be well.
Lan Elliott:Yeah, it is very intimidating to go to someone in your organization that's more senior than you, it is, and that you admire. And how do you begin this conversation? How do you ask them to lunch? It is a little bit awkward and intimidating. It is.
Greg Kennealey:And look, if you know it's the first time you're shaking hands with your c e o in the elevator, you can't be like, and I'd like to go to lunch and talk to you about my career. That, that, that's a bit of a jump, if you have an opportunity in whatever role, you've got to get some exposure to somebody slightly more senior to you, and then you do a good job for them. They're appreciative. That's your moment to say, Hey, by the way, would you be open to grabbing coffee with me at some point? There's some things I'd love to get your perspective on, and there's nothing wrong with taking that mid-level person and getting to know them and then saying, I've got this other thing. I'd love a perspective of somebody more senior. You say that in a way that doesn't hurt their ego, would you help facilitate, my going to coffee or lunch with it just takes work and effort, but it's available to people who are willing to do that. Let me
Lan Elliott:ask you this. If you have if a person has someone they admire and they think they might want to reach out to them as a mentor and they're a peer of their boss, is that okay to do? Because I've always felt maybe that would seem disloyal to my boss if I was reaching out to his peer
Greg Kennealey:to go lunch. Great question. Obviously it partly depends on your boss. right? If your boss is insecure, then you've gotta navigate that. A good boss would encourage it, right? So that's one way of testing whether you've got a good boss. But I think, if you take your boss to lunch first and then say, I'd love to get the perspective of other people. What do you think about my talking to Sally or Bill or whoever to get another point of view that feels safer to me. What you don't want to do is reach out to the peer and have your boss find out about it secondhand, right? That's a recipe for ruffle feathers. So at a minimum you have to say, I'm, know, I'm reaching out to and going to lunch. I just wanted to give you the heads up. That's great
Lan Elliott:advice. Yeah. Cause sometimes you don't know how to navigate your boss if it's someone else.
Greg Kennealey:So yeah. Now you have to choose whether you're gonna ask if you can go to lunch with or whether you're gonna tell them that you are. Those are very different things. You've gotta read that. But either way, they need to be in the loop on that. And hopefully they're gonna be supportive. If they're not, that's a pretty red flag to me that you gotta move. Just be candid.
Lan Elliott:Good point. Yeah, good point. Yeah. Thank you. There is a common generalization that women are not very good at advocate advocating for themselves. They're companies, yes, maybe, but not so much for themselves. Yeah. And that is an issue for them in getting promotions or going after something that they want. What would you tell our viewers who are struggling to find their voice to get something that they really want?
Greg Kennealey:Yeah, I've seen that play out a number of times. And I'm sure that I have in, in, in many cases personally either not advocated or frankly probably advocated too much. In certain cases, I should have just, put my head down and done my work. But I think there are several things to think about. Number one, if you've done a good job on the point you asked a minute ago about cultivating mentors, and the ideal situation is your mentor, your champion right, is advocating for. That's the ideal situation. Or at a minimum, keeping their eyes open cuz they've got a different vantage point of the playing field and looking for those spots where you can insert yourself into a project or an initiative that might be higher visibility than maybe what is your current day-to-day role. So that if you're doing part one, then part two gets easier. But I think the other part of it, it has to be framed. ideally, like what other responsibility or challenge can I take on that would be good for my team, frankly would be good for my boss, right? So you have to frame it as I see this opportunity, or I see this, know, we're trying to keep all the balls in the air. These three are hitting the floor. Why don't I pick them up for you, boss? And at least try and advance them and circle back to you. I think if you frame it in, what's in the best interest? the person who's saying yes or no to you that helps. And you have to find your spot. Sometimes it's okay to do that in the big meeting. Other times it's you pull the decision maker aside or your boss aside and say, Hey, I'd really a shot at that. Can we find a way for me to do that? And I think if you do that enough you will You you'll make progress. Mike. Shannon likes to say that when you ask a question, you get three possible answers and two of them are good, right? There's, yes, there's maybe, and there's no right. So you don't ask, you don't get and keep asking even if the answer's no in the first one. The other thing I think it's important to remember particularly for women and in certain cases, underrepresented minority groups is doing your job well is not su. right? That gets you the job you've got and the paycheck you've got, right? And if that's, if you know you're in the box of rockstar and you're happy there, that's wonderful. But if you want to go further, that is not enough. And the difference between doing your job and getting an A and spending 10 more hours and getting an A plus, not always the best use of your time to be. That extra time is networking, skill development, doing things that increase your value. Don't be the person toiling in the corner on the project while everybody else is chatting, at the water cooler, with the team adjacent to them or the boss above them. If you're not visible and engaging on a personal level, you won't move up as fast as someone who will. And I think a lot of people make that.
Lan Elliott:I actually think a lot of women make that mistake. I've made that mistake too. I'm at my desk working and the guys are putting down the hallway and I think I'm doing my job and isn't that great that I'm doing my job, but I would've been better off getting up and going out and talking with them. Even if I can't putt, I can probably putt better than I can swing, but but yeah, I think it's an important thing that that people don't really hear enough is that being really good at your job probably only gets you. To middle management and if you wanna Oh for sure. Continue. If you wanna continue and to rise into the C-Suite and le and major leadership roles, you really need those other pieces that you had mentioned, which is visibility and building relationships with people. You can't just get there, if you are the person with the A plus work. Exactly like you said, you've missed out on opportunities to build relationships that are going to help you.
Greg Kennealey:Yeah. And look at a senior level. You are no longer being paid for your technical expertise, right? You have to have it, right? You have to be competent, but there's always somebody junior who's got the latest training and the whatever that, that can fill that gap for you if you need it. God knows I rely on that all the time. But having the relationships where I can call somebody senior at a bank, at an investment firm at K S L, at Marriott, whatever, like to help get something done that's important to my business or to get advice from somebody who's got a different perspective in a, in another senior role in another organization. that's very valuable. And there's only one way to get that. And it's a lot of time on the relationship side.
Lan Elliott:Yeah. I think that's a really important point that people miss is that being the smartest on that technical piece of knowledge is not necessarily what's required.
Greg Kennealey:It only gets you so far. Yeah. And now look, if you spend all day networking and you don't get your job done, that's not a recipe for success. You've gotta strike the balance.
Lan Elliott:But doing a good job, like you said, getting the a and not focusing on the a plus, that's really at some point it's table stakes that everyone can do the job at a certain level to that a and then you need the other skills and the other networks in order to continue to progress.
Greg Kennealey:Yeah. And I think what some people make the mistake of is thinking that there. Incremental return on that incremental knowledge or that incremental expertise. And often the difference is it's not so much about what you know or don't know or what you can do or not do, it's how you think. And like tactical thinking versus strategic thinking. And the way you learn how to think at a different level is based on the amount of time you spend with people who are here. Yeah. Or here in their careers. And you just get exposure to it and you start to look at things differently and that becomes valuable. And frankly it makes it easier to. Because then you can start to talk at your boss or your boss's level about what's going on in the business in a way that you couldn't, if you just kept your head down in your cube. Yes.
Lan Elliott:And I think a lot of young people come outta school and they've done so well keeping their head down, doing their work. They got the A, they got the A plus for sure. And then to find out that's not the same thing that's going to get you into the C-suite of your company. That's something that people figure out along the way, but better if they figure it out sooner. I would agree
Greg Kennealey:later. Yeah. Yeah. For.
Lan Elliott:So along those lines one of our favorite questions at d e I advisors is what advice would you give to your son younger self? We think it speaks to the importance of self-reflection in one's personal growth, but looking back on your journey, what would you want your 22 year old self to know?
Greg Kennealey:guess the first thing that comes to mind honestly is get the heck into the hotel industry as soon as you graduate from Notre Dame. Don't wait, 12 years or whatever it was. So that, that would be number one if I could go back in time. But I guess, absent that, the big learning for me was keep searching and and don't settle. And I think that I was 35 when I got my job at strategic. Pretty far along in your career or to be making a switch like that? Risky in one sense, certainly, but it's worked out great and I think the reason for that is because The moment I saw it, I knew this is what I wanted to do, and I was so excited about it that it was easy to work really hard and and eventually climb. And so I think the advice for people is, you don't have to settle and, not everybody's gonna love their industry but they can love the role. They're in the team, they're on the mission of the organization, right? There are things that can get you passionate and excited. I think in our industry it's a lot easier than it might be in others, but but keep searching and. and don't settle would be my advice. I
Lan Elliott:love that. And I love the idea of getting into hospitality sooner. We've heard that
Greg Kennealey:once. Oh my gosh, yes.
Lan Elliott:Yeah. I'm gonna ask you an unscripted question. What do you think about young people who have switched and had a number of jobs, five jobs in five years? Is that good? Is that them finding themselves or is that a red flag for you?
Greg Kennealey:It's probably. Yes. Five jobs, five different employers in five years. That, I don't know if that's a red flag or a yellow flag, but it's, it'll be something that would jump off the page at me. I think that you ideally need to do as much of that searching process, in school, in your, nights and weekends so that you can make smart choices, right? Because at a certain point in your career, We're evaluating you for a leadership role part based on your technical expertise and part based on your relationships and your strategic thinking, but also on your decision making and your judgment, right? And so if you keep jumping into things that you think at the moment you jump are gonna be great, and they're not, then then you need to either do more diligence or work on your judgment skills, I but I, I don't believe that contradicts my point earlier about keep. right? Because you can search in coffees and lunches and dinners and podcasts and you can search in a lot of ways. That's, but I think what people will sometimes get confused by, and frankly I saw a lot of my business school classmates do this is they get enamored by the sexiness of management consulting or investment banking just to pick a couple of stereotypical ones. And a few of them will love it and do it forever. And a few of them do it well enough to catapult into a senior role someplace else, but a lot of them make a lot of money and aren't really that happy. But can't leave. And so you have to navigate that really well. And you have to get advice from people who you think are smarter and more successful because, those are the people with the best perspective on what is or isn't a good opportunity. If you interviewed a company and you're like, I'm the smartest guy in this room. right? You want to be at a place where everybody's smarter than you and sharper and challenging and growing, and that's how I felt when I interviewed at ksl. That was pretty intimidating. You play with better players and your skill level goes
Lan Elliott:up. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we are coming to the end of our time and I know I could keep talking to you and asking you many more unscripted questions. All good But keeping in mind d e i advisor's mission of empowering personal success, do you have one final bit of advice you would leave with our viewers who are looking to advance their careers?
Greg Kennealey:Yeah. The keep searching part is definitely in there, but I guess. I think the message I'd love for people to take away is particularly younger people earlier in their career, there, there are a lot of people in our industry or in, in your social circles that are willing to help. But ultimately, your career is up to you and you've gotta find the time and the energy to devote to that as we talked about, right? You can do a great job in your current role, but you also have to have, frankly, the discipline. to invest in your future by spending incremental, extra time, increasing your value. And you do that by learning new skills, developing new knowledge, networking. And that's hard, right? And it's easier to. go to the bar or watch a game or whatever, what you do for fun. Which is why I think many people opt out at a certain point in their career, or they do this much when they should be doing this much. Reading a book, going to coffee with someone, listening to a podcast or taking an online course, like one of those zero impact, right? But do that every week for 10 years and you will be in a massively different place in your career than if you didn't. And that's a personal choice. It's a harder road in some regards. It's a massively more rewarding road. I don't even just mean financially. I think it's just more fun to have, new learning and new challenges. So that would be my advice is to take, to take ownership of it and then lean in with discipline and the rewards. I promise you will be there.
Lan Elliott:Wonderful advice. Thank you so much, Greg. I so appreciate your being on and sharing. Oh, you're welcome. A lot of wisdom that you share. A lot of great insight and I'm really loving the work that you're doing at Mission Hill and how intentional Thank you are at being inclusive. So thank you very much on Oh, my
Greg Kennealey:pleasure. It was a lot of fun.
Lan Elliott:And for our viewers, if you have enjoyed this interview with Greg, we hope you will join us at our website, d ei advisors.org for more. I. Thank you.