Tiffany Cooper, Head of Development, Americas, Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group

Tiffany shares why not getting an opportunity she once sought turned out to be the best thing that happened in her career.  She discusses why it’s important to fail at things and the gifts of imposter syndrome.  Tiffany explains how her mother’s career provided her with a vision for her own life, and how she came to be called The Velvet Hammer.  She also describes the dynamics of a really good team.

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Lan Elliott 0:00

Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors. My name is Lan Elliot on behalf of D E I advisors and today I'm really pleased that our advisor is Tiffany Cooper, who is kimpton's head of development for North America and the Caribbean. Welcome Tiffany.

Tiffany Cooper 0:16

Hi Lan. Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for including

Lan Elliott 0:20

me. So happy to have you. Now, we've had the chance to work together at a couple companies actually together but I know you had a really interesting career journey. Can you share some of the inflection points on your successful career and what are some of the factors that contributed to your.

Tiffany Cooper 0:41

Sure. I'm coming up on 30 years. That's a pretty amazing, I think I'm at 28 and a half right now. But I did not go to college to study hospitality. I actually wanted to be a rock and roll reporter. I studied journalism and public relations, and when I graduated I think I quickly realized that getting to Rolling Stone was a little bit harder than I than I, imagined it to be. And I fell into. Quite accidentally, but there are no accidents. I fell into my first job at Kimpton and it was January of 1995. I started as a sales coordinator. Making $9 an hour. And it was at a hotel that Phil Kimpton actually owned, called the Juliana. It has not been in the system for a while, but it was a great little property right at Union Square and I had the most incredible mentor that I think anyone could be given for their first job. It was a wo a woman by the name of Jan Mish. Jan was one of the first general managers female general managers at Hyatt. And she just was this really exceptional person. I had never met anyone quite like her. I'd always been told, you have to be really tough to be in business and. Jan was really smart and she was super capable, but she just, she led with so much heart. And within six months of me being at the hotel my boss left and I was, 22 years old and Jan said, I think you can do this job. And she promoted me to my to my boss's job, which was director of sales. There's only two in the sales department. It was a small little hotel, but it was really exceptional and I know that there were people in the company that did not think she should. Do that because I had no experience and she probably shouldn't have done it. I didn't even know what a government per diem rate was. There was so much I did not know when I stepped into that job that I had to figure out pretty quick. But what was really important, and it has stayed to me, with me to this day, is she really had this. Incredible belief in me. She saw something in me that I did not know about myself yet. And she really held space for me until I was able to come into that that belief of myself. And when someone believes in you that much, you just never wanted to let 'em down. You'll work you. Four times is hard because you just would never want to let them down. So that was really, I think, critical and fundamental as a 22 year old. And she also was so strong in eq, no one even knew what EQ was, could define it, but she just, she employed it and she just led with so much heart. And I really, that really is something that that has stayed with me throughout my career. And then a few years after that, a little company that was being formed called Starwood brought me in and I was an op. I spent about 10 years in operations, and so I went to Starwood. I opened a Weston, I worked at w and I had met some incredible people throughout my time at Starwood. And one of the, one of the people that I had met, he was my regional vp is Greg Mount. And Greg had moved into development and I was in operations at w and they were looking for someone in the new business capacity for development for Starwood. And I had no experience whatsoever in development. But Greg really put my name forward and said, she has the sales skills, the ability to learn quickly. There's those attributes you hire for, and those are the, there's those innate attributes. And he, again, saw something in me and put my name forward and that was really pivotal. I, I ended up moving over to the real. Group at Starwood in 2005, and it was a crazy time in development. Everyone was drinking out of a fire hose, and my job was to qualify all the deals. And again, once again I stepped into this job and I was way over my skis. I remember my first day in development was at NYU U 2005. And I was, it was like I, there, it was like Greek was being spoken. People were talking about cap rates and throwing the IRRs and all these acronyms. I had no idea what they were talking about. But I took Fast and Furious notes and Tom Smith, who was at. Starwood, who you probably know, he recommended a book that I that I use of just investment terminology To this day. I use it just to, to get a little bit smarter as all of these, terms being thrown and around and I had to jump in and learn fast. But again, I think because Greg had such a belief in my ability that I was determined not to prove him wrong and to ultimately,

Lan Elliott 5:44

There's so many good themes in what you said there about, for example, mentors and champions putting you forward, but also. Taking a risk, taking, stepping into those roles that maybe you didn't feel were perfect for you at that moment, but that you were going to grow and learn and develop into those roles. And that d determination really served you and you became really great at those things that maybe you hadn't thought of for yourself, but other people thought you would be great for.

Tiffany Cooper 6:16

I think there's also something I think when we walk into a job. We feel like we have to know everyone, everything, right? We have to be the authority. And there's something to be said about, they call it the Buddha mind or the beginner's mind, and looking at things from that place of innocence, right? Because you have a different perspective. It's not a, it's not one from experience, but sometimes it's a, it's a. It's a lens or a point of view that someone who does have experience may not have. And you can come up with some, interesting, innovative, sometimes even disruptive ideas or ways to do the job. So I don't know. It seemed to work okay, but a little bit of stress in that process. But you have to just be. Be super tenacious tenacious and have champions that, that ultimately have your back. Absolutely.

Lan Elliott 7:07

Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about approaching challenges. Maybe if you could share, you've had a lot of successes. Could you share a story about what you learned when things didn't go your.

Tiffany Cooper 7:23

I think that's such a great question. Thank you. I don't think, I was just having this conversation with someone yesterday. I don't know that we talk enough about failure. I think we're such a success prone. Environment, and it's all about celebrating success. If you're not failing, I don't know that you're ultimately pushing as hard as you should be. And really the best learnings come from those. Failures, challenges, opportunities, failures, in interject whatever words you wanna use. But there was there was a, I was fairly, I don't know, seasoned into my career at in development. And there was a position that I really wanted That I was overlooked for, and at that point I was turning 40. I was feeling somewhat, irrelevant, those are those, all that internal dialogue. And I really struggled with that for for a little while. But it ultimately, it. By far the best thing that I think has happened to me in my career. I call it my m msa or my Masters of Soul Administration because it really set me on this path to just become a little bit more self-aware. When you're succeeding, and you're, hitting those green lights and, and those layups and it feels good. It doesn't necessarily teach you anything and you're, you're feeding your ego, right? And I did a lot of ego, work after this period because, it, the ego will lead you on this kind of insatiable path and it'll keep you striving. But it doesn't get you any closer to understanding how what your internal network is, right? Understanding your beliefs, your mental talk, your fears, and I really spent this time. Just trying to figure all of that out for the first time in my life. And started a gratitude practice. Read more books than you could possibly imagine. There's something to be said about how do you stay hungry and motivated without the ego, right? Because the ego does. Purpose. But if you're not aware of it and mindful of it, it will consume you and you will never really have that true feeling. And I think of contentment if you don't. If you don't look at that stuff. So ultimately what I found is not getting what you want can sometimes be the best thing that happens to you. And in my case, that's what happened. So after I had gone through the process of doing all this kind of inside, inside work all of a sudden things just started appearing. And it is a, it. A magic magical process when you when you figure that out. And so I was really happy I look back on that period as probably being maybe the most pivotal in my life.

Lan Elliott 10:07

Yeah. You learned you had to learn a lot about yourself in doing and doing your msa, your master. Yeah, exactly. Do you have a favorite book you would recommend for someone who might be in that same spot that wants. Start exploring that.

Tiffany Cooper 10:21

There's so many. One of my favorites that I go back to all the time is an author. His name is Gay Hendrix. He's a professor I think at Stanford, and he has a book called The Big Leap. And one of his teachings is about upper limiting and how we all have this thermostat reading that we feel comfortable at for happiness, for success, for joy, for abundance, for anything. And we all have it set at a certain level. And if it starts raising, if you're getting the promotion and you have the new car. You're having all this great stuff. You have a new baby and marriage and relationship. You start getting very joyful or feeling very abundant and then all of a sudden you start getting scared cuz you're like, oh, this feels too good to be true. And that's where a lot of, fear can arise and self-sabotage can arrive. So that upper limiting, once I learn that I try to keep that present and everything that I do because, it's just, a lot of this is just. Becoming aware of how you relate to the world. And I thought that was a really that was a really good book and really good, interesting learning. Yeah,

Lan Elliott 11:32

I had a leader who used to say that the hardest work you'll ever do is on yourself. And I find that so true. It's so hard to, you really can't change other people. So the only thing you can do is change yourself, but becoming more self-aware, doing all of that work, I wish I had done it earlier. But thank you for sharing that experience. Yes. Turning to building networks. And for some of us, this idea of networking, when we hear about it the instant idea that pops into my mind is a walking into that cocktail party where you don't know everybody. You don't know anybody, and they're all talking to each other. But how have you built your network? How do you network in a way that suits

Tiffany Cooper 12:10

your personality? It's funny, I think, I don't know that anyone would realize this about me, but I'm, Fairly anti-social. I don't know that I should admit that on camera but I'm also an extrovert. So I, when I'm, when I'm home I'm I'm not as social, but when I'm in a work setting it, it feels very natural. No one, I think likes to walk into a cold room. And fortunately for you and Ilan after this many years usually you walk in the room and it's okay, who do I talk to? Sometimes I, I want that, that cloak of invisibility so I can just get through a room if I need to. But it's also so great. It is such a wonderful feeling when you walk into one of these conferences at Alice or Lodging or NYU and people in the room and you can remember meeting them however many years ago. And it's a really it's a point, it's a point of pride because you did have to force yourself out and. Uncomfortable situations where you didn't really know anyone. It's very fulfilling. And at the end of the day, everything is about our relationships. I consider myself a relationship development person. And I think in this industry we have two degrees of separation between everybody at such a small little network. And so it has to be, everything is your reputation and it has to be authentic. It can't be. Just, it can't be fluffy. A lot of my great, like great relationships are, people that I've known and have come to trust and trust me, and it's based on mutual respect. And I've known them for a while and maybe we've gone through very tough negotiations. But it ultimately Brings us even closer. And I think it does ultimately make the negotiation process a little bit easier just because you know that the person on the other side of the table, they're not trying to get you. They have a job to do and you have a job to do. And if you can figure out ways to expand the pie for each, that's always a great negotiation where you walk away feeling like you have something to, that you got for your side and they got something for their side. And those are the relationships that you're gonna go back to to do multiple deals, not just one deal. And then they become your friends. And again, it's, there's a lot of respect and honesty and trust. And all of that starts with having a a strong relationship. And I like, I genuinely I think it's the journalist in me. I like to peel the onion. I don't like these huge speed meat kind of events because they just feel, they don't feel very authentic. But, to sit with someone over a glass of wine or a nice meal and just really understand them and peel the onion that's fun. That's a great. Yeah,

Lan Elliott 14:48

it really is. And you're right, this industry is, it feels big, but it's actually pretty small and I've had a number of people that I've negotiated across the table with and they've become really good friends and that I stay in touch with them. So it, it's a wonderful industry if you really think about it as a relationship industry. And your network just builds cuz as time goes by, you get to interact with more different people and it builds your network I know you've been surrounded by strong women growing up and I wanna talk a little bit, dive into a bit more mentors and champions cuz you alluded to it at the beginning, but I've read that your mom was a big influence on you when you were growing up. She was a single mother and a successful accountant and that was at a time when there weren't really a lot of women in that area, in that field. And today we talk a lot about how representation matters, so I'd love if you could share the impact that your mom's career had on you and how you thought about your career.

Tiffany Cooper 15:50

Yeah, from the earliest age she. She represented, you know what I wanted to be, she gave me a vision for my own life to follow. This was, the late seventies and having a woman working in accounting and she put herself through college and she raised my sister and I, and she just always was so strong. But she did it with she did it with great femininity too. There's one there's one time that I remember she was working on an audit late and she had me and my sister there and there was a sofa there where we could take a nap or whatever. And and she was color coordinating all the files, making them look. Perfect. For when the auditors came the next day, and she set it up with a big box of Dunking Donuts with Dunking Donuts coffee. And she had it all perfectly. I think we probably got home at one o'clock in the morning, which wasn't great for a school night, but but I remember helping her organize the papers and and there just was so much pride that she had that there, that she had and all of that, was so impactful. For me, her work ethic, her commitment to accel excellence And I've just always been surrounded by strong women really more strong women than men in my life. And I think working in a male dominated field, a lot of, I'll be on panels or, people ask me, wasn't it so hard, being in a male dominated field, or, 20 years ago being in develop. So often I was the only woman in the room. And I have to say, I just didn't ever really consider it or think about it. It never intimidated me because all of the strength that WA was displayed to me in my own life was reflected with women. It's, I think it's an interesting perspective.

Lan Elliott 17:42

Absolutely. And I know a lot of the moms out there have the mom guilt that they're working, they're splitting their time, they're trying to be everything for everybody. But I think sometimes it's also good to remember that what they're doing is inspiring the next generation as well. And maybe that helps them going.

Tiffany Cooper 17:59

I've tried to think of that at least for my own children. I have three kids of my own. So you never shake that mommy. You just, you do the best you can and hopefully you are, being a good role model.

Lan Elliott 18:11

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Cuz people need to see that before they can dream. Oh,

Tiffany Cooper 18:16

absolutely. Yeah. You that vision, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Lan Elliott 18:20

So often we're our own biggest critics, and you mentioned this earlier, that noise in our head makes us doubt that we can do things or accomplish things. You've got some great strategies to stay positive. And how can you describe how you overcome that internal.

Tiffany Cooper 18:37

I've, I, I think you're born with a certain temperament in general. And I was born an optimist. I joke around that even my blood type is positive cause I just, it's just a nicer way to view the world for me. I, everyone gets into funks and everyone has self-doubt, but genuinely I. Being up. I love being, feeling positive. When you get into those dark places, I think everyone does. You should have your strategies to go to, I love to run, I love yoga. I, wanting to be a rock and roll reporter. I love music. So those are ways for me to turn out the noise. But more importantly than that, I try to get outta my own head and see the larger picture and just try to get into service, try to be of service. Even go, go buy someone a coffee, go donate or, donate hours. We're, I think we forget how. Lucky we are, I think we are luckier than 99.9% of the people in this country, in around the world. Keeping that close to you and remembering, like putting into perspective like, how bad is this really? Are we going to be able to buy groceries? Do we have a car? It's a, it goes back to that gratitude and for me, that's really become my religion. It's also, it's practice not perfection. There's just gonna be days when you're in a funk. I usually know that. If I can just go to bed and wake up in the morning, I'll have a different perspective. And if I could really get quiet and I do try to meditate, I'm not the best at it. But when I can quiet down some of the noise, I usually can get fairly clear as to what the right next step or decision.

Lan Elliott 20:27

I love that. Yeah. We've also talked about the gifts of imposter syndrome. Yeah. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Tiffany Cooper 20:37

I don't only have an msa, but I did get my MBA a few years ago. I graduated with a communications and journalism degree, so I don't, I did have a business background and there was just something, and it wasn't for me to get a bigger promotion or. It wasn't for anything other than the fact that I didn't know what he didn't know, and that bothered me. So I spent two and a half years while working both at Marriott and starting my new job at Kimpton, every weekend on every airplane, working through the course load. And I finished February, 2020, which was crazy because I had gone from being really busy for two and a half years. Absolutely nothing when Covid hit March of 2020. So that was that was interesting. But I think the imposter syndrome, everyone talks about, it how it stays with you your whole life and it really does. But some of the gifts are, it really. Pushes you to hustle, right? Like it, you have to seek knowledge. It prevents you from getting too arrogant or maybe lazy or complacent. You have that. Cont that need to continuously improve and stay curious. So those are gifts. And from what I understand, most people have imposter syndrome when, whether they know it or not. And it's like fear. It stays with you your entire life and it doesn't go away. You just get better at acknowledging it and knowing it What? Knowing it, knowing what it is. And, allowing a little of that to creep in isn't the worst thing. It keeps us on our toes, it keeps us fairly fresh. I think that's, I think that's a good thing. Yeah

Lan Elliott 22:25

it's also a great indicator that you are learning to do something new and that you're growing, right? It's always a little uncomfortable to do something that you haven't done before. But if you just keep doing all the things that you're really comfortable doing, you never get to expand your abilities or your horizons and get to the next

Tiffany Cooper 22:43

level. It's so true and it's uncomfortable. No one likes being uncomfortable, right? Like it doesn't feel good, but you. It does give you a good sense of accomplishment, right?

Lan Elliott 22:54

Absolutely, yes. Really important for the two of us. Yes. Yes. We're gonna talk about that in a second. Yeah. But first I wanted to talk a little bit about assertiveness double MI binds. Which is a challenge that women leaders have, which is this perception that you can't. Competent and kind. For example, if you're too nice, you're not strong enough to be a leader and if you are too strong, you're not nice enough to be able to network appropriately and get the things you want accomplished and. Women who are strong negotiators can be described as difficult and in your role, you have a lot of negotiations doing deals, but you haven't been called difficult. You've actually been called the velvet hammer by someone who has negotiated with you. I love how do you find that right balance?

Tiffany Cooper 23:50

Yeah, I was really, I have to say, it may be the greatest compliment of my life. When they called me to Vel Hammer, I told my husband, he said, oh, that's pretty perfect. But, I think that yes, I think it's, I think it's, women are shedding that, that nice. Tough, I guess dichotomy, right? But I think it's an old, I do think it's an old script or narrative that you have to be tough to be effective, especially in the last 20 years when EQ has become, clearly as po as important as iq. From a negotiation perspective though, I do think that the, I. Feel that there have been times when people have underestimated me, which I think is great. There's a, there's such, there's so many gifts in being underestimated, right? Because then it's like a sneak attack. If they underestimate us, let them, because because that's actually a fairly good strategy to employ. But I think going back to, the kindness, I mentioned my first general manager, Jan. Kindness was her superpower, and it doesn't mean that you're weak. I think if anything, it conveys self-confidence and I think it's ultimately the difference between, those leaders that are transactional versus transformational. The transformational are the ones. Who lead with empathy and kindness. They're, ultimately the ones you would take a bullet for those, those servant leaders. And it doesn't mean that you don't have to make tough calls, cuz you do, and you have to have tough conversations. But you can do th you can do that through the lens of empathy. And, even today, and I went through the whole list of great podcasts you have, Jeff Belotti is one of 'em. He's a perfect example of, I think he's a transformational leader that leads with kindness, he leads with empathy. My first general manager, Jan, Carla Murray, my old general manager, Richard Hill, Mike, c e o of Kimpton, Mike Dino. These are transformational leaders that. Kind. And ultimately that's what we, that's the kind of representation we need. We have, we need leaders who can govern with kindness, compassion, but are also super capable and super competent.

Lan Elliott 26:06

I love that. I agree. I agree for sure. Let's go deeper into that and talk a little bit more about leadership style. I know that Kimpton uses Enneagrams. I think I pronounced that right. Yeah. To better understand team members can, and you sent me the test and I did my Enneagram test over the weekend, so thank you for that. Can you explain what Enneagrams try to capture and how they impact the way you lead your team or identify characteristics or leadership styles that you look for in,

Tiffany Cooper 26:41

in leaders? Sure. And so the ideogram, this was something that Kimpton, I took my first Igram test at the age of 23, so th this was really impactful for me to learn at a very young age. And we've evolved the program over time. And and, but it is a required training for all, what we call Kimpton Nation. But the Enneagram, it's a system of personality. Personality types and how those types interpret their world. So it allows us a better understanding of ourselves and who and who we interact with. Solan. And I think you're a three. I'm a three. So we're the achievers, right? So we're addicted to dopamine. We like to check off lists, we like to get things done. And knowing how to, keep ourselves engaged is is important, but also having a better understanding of those people around you, right? That I think allows for more effective communication. How, how do you motivate people? How do you demotivate people? How. Not, where to not go because you don't wanna trigger a landmine. And there's, there's a few people in my life that I know that they are a one on the Ingram, which is the perfectionist. And so I know exactly where they will go to if they're happy and if they're not happy. So just having that kind of greater understanding of myself and those around me, just, I think it makes you a little bit more of a better. Mother, wife, coworker, mentor, boss. It just, it really, I think it, it touches and it colors everything. That's wonderful.

Lan Elliott 28:20

You happen to have a team of a number of successful women. Yeah. And historically development teams, deal teams have been predominantly men. I know we both came up on the real estate side, development side, where the teams were mostly. What's the dynamic? I'm curious, what is the dynamic like with a team of deal people who are mostly women? How is it different?

Tiffany Cooper 28:44

Yeah. I have, extraordinary people that I work with, so I'm so lucky. I'll just. I'll say there's just there's no drama. We all have completely complimentary gifts. We don't compete with each other. We, we don't compare against each other. Charlotte on our team out, who I know you've worked with Charlotte. She's Charlotte to Haven's incredible. We call ourselves the yin and yang because where she leaves off, I take over and vice versa. We both are very complimentary. We just get down to business. I ran track in high school and I was a sprinter and which is perfect for me. And I I would do the baton relay and I envision it very similar to the baton relay where you are. Going as hard as you can for that heart, for that a hundred yards. And then you seamlessly pass the baton and you have every confidence that next person is gonna run their a hundred yards as, as hard as you're running. And that I think is, male, female, whatever. I think that's the dynamic of a really good team, is to be able to to keep passing that baton and have. Faith and cheer each other on. That's, that's how it feels like that, it's, it feels like that that sense of gratification sounds like a great

Lan Elliott 29:59

team to be

Tiffany Cooper 30:00

on. That's a good team.

Lan Elliott 30:01

Yeah. So one of our favorite questions that d e i advisors is what advice would you give to your younger self?

Tiffany Cooper 30:10

So I will say I don't think I'd give her any advice. I think I, I want her to be hungry and I want her to learn as she goes because if she knows any of how this is, manifested over the last 30 years, maybe, I don't know, maybe she she doesn't work as hard. I doubt that, but you change one thing and it all changes, right? And I'm so thankful and grateful for how my career has progressed in these almost three decades. The people I've interact with. I had no idea I'd ever end up in hotels and in development. And and I just, I truly feel so blessed. So I don't know that I wanna mess with any of that. I think I wanna let all of that unfold, all of the. Messiness and maybe some at times the challenges and the struggle. That's really what got me here. So I think I would just go give her, just go give her a hug and buy her a better glass of wine than she was drinking at 22. Because I think she was drinking whites and vi so that I would do, I

Lan Elliott 31:17

love that. That's wonder. Coming to the end of our time together, and I wanted to see if you could share one last tidbit of advice and keeping in mind that d e I advisor's mission is around empowering personal success. What advice would you offer to women and underrepresented groups who are looking to advance their careers?

Tiffany Cooper 31:39

Yeah, so there's a few. So first I'd say success is not a straight line, right? You, we talked a little bit about having those failures and really embracing those and learning from those when we're all sitting around having cocktails and telling stories, we're not telling the success stories we're telling, like the crazy stories of when things didn't go right. Success is not a straight line and and courage is, being courageous is not, not having fear, but it's knowing fears there and pushing through that. I think, Comfort zones. Certainly leaning in saying yes. Also, I think always looking for ways to add value In every job that I take, I start, maybe again, it's the three in me on the Indian ground, the achiever. But if I'm not adding value, I start. I start feeling very unproductive. And so always finding a way to add people, add value to people's lives. I did a I did a class one time and the instructor, it was a, I think it was a training class at Starwood that HR put on, and they said that you should always make more deposits than withdrawals. And I love that. That just has always stayed with me. I always wanna try to make more. Than withdrawals and everything, whether it's, work or, being there for people when they need you. I think that's a fairly, a good life ethos to follow. And then the last one I'll say, and I tell this to my team all the time, that they're probably really sick of me saying it, but just keep your side of the street clean. If you just focus on keeping your side of the street clean. You can't control anything else but what you do. And if you do that, everything else will just ultimately fallen into place. So keep your side of the street super clean. I love

Lan Elliott 33:31

that. Thank you so much Tiffany. So glad that you were able to do this interview with me. I'm really thrill.

Tiffany Cooper 33:40

Thank you so much. And I will say this is just the most fantastic clearinghouse of leadership lectures. If people are looking for more information as to how to become a more successful leader, human, feel motivated, all they have to do is sit down on a Saturday and go. All of these podcasts and everyone has something incredible to offer. So thank you for all the work that that d i advisors is doing, cuz this really is exceptional.

Lan Elliott 34:10

Thank you so much Tiffany. And for our audience, if you'd like to find us, you can find us@www.de i advisors.org or on our YouTube channel, d e i advisors, or on your favorite podcast. Thank you everybody. Thank you, Tiffany. Thanks, Liam.