Eva Wassermann, Senior Managing Director, GEM Realty Capital, interviewed by Lan Elliott

Eva discusses how her mentors propelled her career forward, and she shares the source of her motivation.  She describes how she develops her network and overcomes self-doubt as well as how she navigates the tightrope of being strong and kind at the same time.  Eva also discusses what people can do to distinguish themselves, and how combining hard work and your network can be a powerful platform to grow from.

Transcript

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Lan Elliott 0:00

Hello, and welcome. My name is Lan Elliott on behalf of DEI Advisors, and today's guest adviser is Eva Wasserman, senior managing director of Gem Realty Capital. Welcome, Eva. Thank

Eva Wassermann 0:15

you so much for having me. I really Appreciate an opportunity to talk about all the various things that are going on in the world and particularly as it has to do with DEI.

Lan Elliott 0:28

It's wonderful to have you. And for those of you who might not be familiar with Eva's accomplishments, I hope you'll go to our website at dei advisers dot org where you can read more about her. So with that, let's jump right in because, Eva, I know you've had an incredible career journey. Could you share some of the inflection points in your successful career? And Perhaps if there was a factor or factors that you think contributed to your success?

Eva Wassermann 0:58

Sure. I think, really for me 1 of the things that really get me on the path that I've been on my entire career is, In college, I was very interested in the hospitality industry and focused on a program in hospitality management. And just assumed back then that I would be going the general manager's path, and that was my dream. And then the, first semester of college, all of a sudden, I had this great speaker that was so interesting who did hotel salting in Hawaii in the South Pacific, and I just was overwhelmed that a job like that even existed and that it was a potential career path for me. And I never looked back. My first job out of college, in fact, my entire senior year in college, I worked as an intern at Laventhal in Horwath doing market feasibility study. It just you know, you don't know what you don't know until you're exposed to it. So ever since then, I've been a huge advocate for exposure. Just try to get exposed to as much as you can so that you can learn what's out there because we just We don't know what's out there, especially when you're young. And so I was very fortunate to have a great early career in consulting that gave me tremendously Strong fundamentals in underwriting and market feasibility, market studies, understanding how to drive value in a hotel. And then was lucky enough to meet a dear who's become a dear friend and was an amazing mentor and still is to this day, Rob Klein who took me from that type of a career into asset management and really did a wonderful job Supporting me and championing me as I learned how to asset manage hotels and then really almost by accident fell into the acquisition side, And it really came out of being at a company at a time that was very interested in they had raised a fund, and they wanted to across all asset classes, including hotels, and I was the 1 in the office that knew how to underwrite and do market feasibility and understood asset management. And so ever since then, my career is kinda balanced between asset management and acquisitions. And, I have a love for both of them, and I love doing both of them Because you find this little diamond in the rough, you put together your investment thesis, and then you implement it. And if you've made mistakes Somewhat that thesis is that's on you, and you have to fix it and figure out how you reprogram, readjust, And ultimately to exit. And so it's I've been so lucky because I've had great doors open to me Through my whole career, through many people and so I just, feel fortunate. I've been at GEM for I'm just coming up on my twelfth anniversary in a couple of weeks which has been another amazing place for me to work with great people and a great culture.

Lan Elliott 3:49

Thank you. And I love the story about discovering new things in school and going down a different path and being open to that path, which is actually the same journey that I was on when I went to school and became a consultant as well to learn the basics on the real estate side. So I love that we had that similar journey. And I also wanted to dig in a little bit to something that you brought up, which was Rob Klein. And I wanted to talk about mentors and champions, and maybe if you could share how they have helped to advance your career. How is how important is that in the business world to find mentors and champions, and what's the right way to go about

Eva Wassermann 4:30

finding them. I think it's huge. I think you need them all. I still have mentors and champions. It's not just when you're starting your career out. And for me and for some people, it's a little bit different. I find it's most successful when it happens organically, naturally. In this case, I knew Rob and, he just saw something in me that knew that I would be good working at his company, and I left Affirmed to go and work with him. And, he gave me a lot of opportunities, but at the same time, could be tough and make sure I was Learning and doing it right and giving it my all. And, and to this day, I call Rob all the time with questions or what do you think about this or that? But then also as I've gone through my career, there's been different champions and people with different skill sets or different things that they can bring to me. I think that other people that I've worked with directly could be a direct report or colleague that I that could help me become a better at whatever it was I was doing at that point. And then to the point where I am today where I have a lot of people I can call and check into and say, this is what I'm thinking about, whether it's an investment or something on a personal side of, how I navigate through problems in the office and Just bouncing ideas or listening to advice or maybe somebody that if I'm really worried about something's talking me off a cliff and saying no, take a deep breath. It's gonna be fine. This is what you should think about. Slow down. I think slow down is what people tend to tell me a lot. That's just my personality because you always feel this need to react instead of stopping to digest. So I find it tremendously helpful. I'm so grateful to all of the people that have helped me along the way. And then I try to do the same for others. So whatever I can do to help somebody be more successful or help them through a difficult situation or a turning point in their career, I try to play pay it forward and do the same. And, again, I think it all of those relationships come from people that you've met Through your career and remembering to try to do things for others that you would hope would be done for you and just all helping each other be successful.

Lan Elliott 6:45

Yeah. I agree. And I love the what you talked about that there are multiple people that you continue to go back to for advice. So it's not just finding that 1 person. There could be a number of different people, and you might go to them for different things depending on what you need at that

Eva Wassermann 7:02

moment in time. Exactly.

Lan Elliott 7:04

Yeah. 1 of the things we hear from many leaders is curiosity is a big part of their path and developing new skills as they advance in their careers. I'm curious what's 1 of the biggest lessons you've learned recently, and how might that change your leadership or strategy going forward.

Eva Wassermann 7:27

I think we all learned a lot of things during COVID. You think about Just even as it was unfolding, it was you know, you just couldn't even begin to imagine that something so severe could happen, and then how it particularly the hotel industry straight. And how that impacted our team members that were employed in our hotels, Our investments, so our investors that we're responsible for. And I think and if I say what's the biggest Lesson, and it's actually it comes it's a bigger lesson, but we think that something could never happen. And you know, everything we do is always you know, you're looking at what are the risks as you make an investment. And would you have ever underwritten something so traumatic as COVID. No. And, certainly, there were big winners and losers that came out of COVID, a hotel in South Florida versus an investment That would be in San Francisco, for example. But it kinda goes with the theme is that as we think about Making investments and understanding things can change dramatically. And it could be that, your Property you're making an investment in is the so reliant on 1 company and the, the company, is a gigantic firm That has been so solid for 20, 30, 40 years, and that demand coming out of them has been so solid, and it all of a sudden evaporates for whatever reason. So I think my big lesson that I've learned over the last 5 years is having that attitude that it's there. It's gonna be fine. When the there and it's gonna be fine, may very well not be. And so really understanding alternatives and how to pivot at times like that and trying to have a plan in place in case there is something that changes dramatically in a market or in the case of COVID with the, people just not being able to travel for a while, and that's an extreme example. So I think Kinda answer in another way. I am just trying to have a broader perspective of what can and cannot happen. I Tend to personally be a person that's very myopic and focused, and then I need to learn to step back, slow down, Think about all of the risk parameters and how I understand pivot around things whether it's in work or in personal. Luckily, Personal's been good. My real examples have been on a, career wise and how we really need to Be even broader minded than we ever thought we needed to be is really what I've learned in the last several

Lan Elliott 9:59

years. Yeah, that's for sure. We never saw that coming but it sure has taken a lot of people on quite the ride for in the whole world, actually. Exactly. And it is a lot different now. Talking about the work you do, which can be quite daunting at times. And I think we've all experienced that moment where We're working on something, and that mountain that you have to climb just looks like it can't be done. How do you Find meaning and inspiration when you need it, when you wanna stay motivated.

Eva Wassermann 10:36

It's a couple of things, I think. 1 because I am on private equity, when I think about, our investors And our duty to our investors is pension fund money, endowment money that people are Counting on to keep a university growing. People are counting on it for a check that they receive on a monthly basis as part of their pension after a Career working for some entity. And I try to always keep that in mind is that this fiduciary duty I have to Protect their equity, but also grow it in an appropriately risk adjusted way. And at times, that to me, is very meaningful in what I do, and so I try to really focus on what I'm doing for other people and how important it is. And I you know, personally, I love what I do. I'm really lucky. I've got such a great job. I've had such an so much fun my whole career. And that motivates me too. So every once in a while, you go, oh, that was a bad day or that was a tough conversation I had to have. But the net of it all Is that I would love what I'm doing. I so enjoy it. I know I'm helping to, make money for people that have worked really hard to save and earn that money. And so I want to, produce great returns for them and keep their equity safe. And that's unbelievably rewarding for me.

Lan Elliott 12:01

I like the theme of connecting it back to the purpose Of what you're doing and who it's for and the people that are relying on you to do a great job. So I think that's really wonderful. Moving on to taking risks, and you had alluded to it just recently because You don't get to where you are today, and you certainly don't do the number of deals that you've worked on without taking some calculated risks. Can you share an example of success in this regard and how you prepare yourself mentally to take a chance on something?

Eva Wassermann 12:36

Oh I wish I could think of something instantly that would be good to share with you. I think, when you think about some of the investments, we just made an investment here. We bought a hotel that was under redevelopment to really reposition it and, from probably what was really a 3 star hotel that ultimately we'd like who establishes a 5 star hotel. And so it's a lot of risk to take a property and a lot of equity And work it over the next several years to be able to accomplish that. And I know how many people are counting on me that I, Supported this deal and sourced this deal. And with our team here, we're gonna make it happen. And I guess I get comfort in knowing that in different ways, I've done it before and I can do it again with our team here that's super Talented. I do think that, I'm trying to be a little more open again. I'm trying to take my lesson I learned and think about Where are my where can I stumble? Where might there be roadblocks? And try to take my time, Not panic if something's not coming together as fast as I would like and be really methodical and thoughtful about what that path looks like to success, and this 1 investment is an example. But it's it is a big risk for our fund and We feel, though, that the opportunity to be successful here is actually very attainable. And a lot of it goes back to what have we done historically And how we what do we know about markets and about asset appreciation and potential exit strategies And taking all of that experience and then having the confidence that we can do it and also looking at the downside. If we are wrong, how bad can it get, and, how long much longer will we have to hold the asset? And just looking at those different Strategies and stress testing it all. But I you know, that's you just you have to take some chances in order To get outsized returns, it's private equity, and an opportunity fund. But it's you know, you worry about it. You wake up in the middle of the night like, Did oh, I just remembered. I forgot to do this on that. So you kinda live it while you're nurturing it through this process without a doubt. And that's just more on, the investment side. I think on a personal side, the risk is putting my reputation online that I can, help us to get to that point. And, a lot I'm not a I'm not a risky Taking person at all. People say, why don't you know, start your own company or someday. People suggest those. I'm like, I'm just an employee. Everybody has their amount of risk they're comfortable with. I'm married to an entrepreneur. I have a son that's an entrepreneur. I'm like, there's enough entrepreneurs around me. I love working in a company with that's more established with great people. That's my comfort level and then being somebody that can contribute to it as opposed to being an entrepreneur. When you think about taking risks, those aren't risks that I'm willing to take, and we all kinda have to decide what we're comfortable with. And so it's, it's knowing yourself and knowing how much you can push And then where you're not comfortable pushing and then helping to make those decisions that way.

Lan Elliott 15:54

Lots of great themes in what you just I really love that. The idea of, you mentioned at the beginning, slowing down and being thoughtful. And then also looking at the downsides, what's the worst thing that could Happen, but really thinking about it from all different sides, but I really like the piece about knowing yourself and what you're comfortable with because everybody's line of where they're willing to go is different. And not being a huge risk taking person either like you. I think being on the investment side, that is a place where you're regularly making a bet on Different deals, which ones do you wanna stand behind? Which ones do you wanna stake your reputation? This is going to be a good deal, and stand up and support that. So You do get practice standing up defending things that you are taking a risk from, in a way. So Yeah.

Eva Wassermann 16:46

No. Absolutely. It's it is a risk. And so you and you do literally stand up and pitch your deal and, have everybody ask you all the hard questions before they vote on it that we're gonna go forward with it.

Lan Elliott 16:58

Absolutely. Wanted to turn to developing a network because a lot of times People think of networking as something that's not quite comfortable to do. And I'm curious how you built your network. Work I'll share with our audience is that the way that we met was actually negotiating across the table on a deal that you were working on. And, I do find that relationships and hospitality are interesting even if you meet people not an adversarial relationship, but things where we're coming at it from our separate companies' points of view. But they can develop into friendships, And I see that happening a lot in our industry. How do you develop your network, and how do you do it in a way that's authentic to you?

Eva Wassermann 17:45

It's interesting because exactly what you said. You know so many people because either worked at the same company There were you did a deal across the table from each other, and then you become friends or, recently something came up and oh, we're gonna have to ask the seller. We're friends with the seller. It's not like we had an adversarial relationship because we were buying and they were selling. It's no problem. We can call them. They'll help us out. It's Great. So I think a lot of and our industry is all about networking. It seems at least from, the side that you and I have had spent our careers on that the networking is huge. And it's easy to do in our industry because for the most part, everybody is so nice and kind and thoughtful. All in I'm sure there's always an exception, but the majority of people are just wonderful. And I guess that's the hospitality industry for us. So I think that it's a lot easier than most people would think it is to network and support each other. And I you know, being in the industry my whole career, I think when you're younger, maybe even in some ways, it's a little bit Easier to get out there and chat with people and just walk up to people and start a conversation. And Some people are better than that at than others. Some people are so great at mingling in anything and developing relationships and good at following up. But I believe in our industry, it's so easy to do that you don't even have to be an expert at it. And luckily, we have a lot of industry events to the degree people can attend, whether they're a local event or a national event that really provide a lot of for networking and meeting people, and your network is huge from being able to discuss ideas, research topics, to finding a development opportunity. So it seems to me that it's very important for me. I, Started early, and I've worked a lot of places. So part of my network is people I've worked with, and everybody's moved on to different things, and then it's really fun to stay in touch here with what they're doing, but also know there's somebody that you can call and rely on. And it kinda crosses a bit to these champions ideas. So maybe not somebody that's a mentor, but somebody that's there to help you when you need something or a great resource. And I think that's where your network and kind of thinking about having champions or people you can champion back, All comes out of that network as well and really working with people to be helpful and just, when somebody calls and needs something from me, I always try to help them because I know someday I'm gonna need to call them back, and that's and then you develop these really lovely friendships where you do wanna grab dinner or coffee with somebody Because you truly enjoy them and appreciate them and respect them.

Lan Elliott 20:32

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Abs it's the best industry. I might be biased, but I really do think so.

Eva Wassermann 20:37

I agree completely.

Lan Elliott 20:41

Let's talk about overcoming self doubt because sometimes we're our own biggest critic, and that noise in our heads makes us doubt ourselves. What are some of the strategies you use to stay positive?

Eva Wassermann 20:56

I think it's hard. That whole self doubt and questioning yourself in every single way or replaying those conversations in your head Oh, should I have said that in the meeting or on the call or, oh, I you know, I just literally this week. So it keeps happening your whole career. I was in a meeting. I was getting so upset about what people were saying, and the people weren't listening, and people were talking over themselves that Instead of remaining calm, I was just 1 of them and jumped in and was like, and I you know, and I as soon as I was done, I'm like, Why? Why did that happen? Why did I do it? You'd think after all these years in the industry, I went fall bait for that. And, yet I still do. So I, I wish I had the answer to it all. I think, after you rerun things or you doubt a decision you made or an action or something you said, it's also Being able to give yourself the permission to say, yeah. Probably didn't handle it so well. Oh, you can call somebody and say, hey. I didn't mean to kinda over speak over you, but what I was trying to say was this or that. Or, just being able to say to yourself, it's fine. They were all doing it too. Don't be so hard on yourself. Everybody was being a jerk. You just join them. That's all. So I think sometimes it's just giving yourself permission to not be perfect, and that's Okay. And, not, realizing that everybody isn't always perfect. And then, Try to prop yourself back up and remember all the great things or good things or smart comments you did make. And, it kinda all Balance is out, but I can't imagine any person doesn't self doubt at times or doesn't sometimes second guess an action. And that we just have to remember that's just part of being human, I think.

Lan Elliott 22:41

Yeah. I think having Or learning to give yourself some grace is a big benefit that took me a long time, but I love that idea. And the fact that Ruminating and thinking about that conversation, it's not something that you grow out of. It still happens all the way through. Just maybe you Learn to live with it or you develop an ability to go back to people and say, hey. That didn't come out the way I had hoped. So

Eva Wassermann 23:09

And I think that's actually always appreciated by the person that you circle back with. Yeah. But, it is for somebody starting their that feels like that all the time. I'd like to say it goes away, but I don't think it does. If you care about what you're doing, you're always kinda reevaluating yourself. But And you said it give yourself that permission of having some grace and, nobody's perfect.

Lan Elliott 23:31

Absolutely. I wanna talk a little bit about leadership style. 1 of the things I've noticed is that women leaders Tend to have a bit of a different style than men. What characteristics or leadership style do you look for in your leaders?

Eva Wassermann 23:51

I think that it has to be a balance between being inclusive and decisive. And, you often see this people that are trying to be really inclusive, but you feel like what's being accomplished and are you really driving what the My goal is in people keeping people on task. Yet, nobody Knows everything, and nobody has all the answers. And so being inclusive in hearing other ideas, opinions, and thoughts, Getting feedback on things and being open minded as you're hearing them is super important and then always leading by. Always try to be the best you can so that you're setting the right example for others that are looking up to you.

Lan Elliott 24:38

Absolutely. I'm gonna stay a little bit with the topic of women leaders and talk about this situation I've seen That can be a challenge, which is an assertiveness double bind, where women walk this tight rope, where if you are Too nice you not might not be tough enough to have the difficult conversations and be a strong leader. And on the other hand, if you're very strong and decisive and assertive, that goes the other way, and people don't always appreciate that coming from women. And that can impede Keyed your ability to develop relationships and advance as well. So it's a balance of being, kind and tough and doing what's needed to be done. How do you balance that? Because I've seen you in And you do it really well, and I'm curious how you

Eva Wassermann 25:31

do it. Thank you. I think it's It is a balance, and hopefully for men, it is as well. And I think that sometimes there's this whole Stereotype of, what a woman, boss is like versus a man or leader or however you whatever term you wanna use. But I think it's trying to balance out how you'd like to hear something and trying to listen intent to what is the issue and then understand then how are you gonna react, how are you gonna help resolve it in a more collaborative way or it may be more empathetic than collaborative, I think I would say. And that it's that, are you aggressive? Are you assertive? In a way, it's the same word, but I think it's how you come across. And we're all charged with what our goals are depending on who we're representing in any situation. And it's up to both sides to be able to find some way in my mind to agree on a path that is workable for both. Hopefully, it's a win but more importantly, hopefully, it isn't a lose or a lose win because I don't think that ultimately ends up in the right relationship that's gonna be productive, especially if it's always a one-sided thing. As you think about how you position yourself, stopping to listen, stopping to be thoughtful And how you express your situation is always my goal. And, you just don't want and I think There's men that do this, but sometimes it's more a woman that does it. It's just you just keep pounding in and pounding in. And that just makes the people less Receptive what you're trying to say. Really slowing down for a minute and thinking, have they heard me? And now may maybe sometimes that's the problem when they're not understanding what you're trying to say. And if you believe they've heard you, then there's no need to continue to push and push, But just try to now listen on why you're not accomplishing what you need to do and then figuring out how you move forward. And, sometimes we're better at that than others, but I think that's where any successful leader negotiator Businessperson is gonna have more success and it's not to say you give up on your position. It's that you're figuring out how to Manage and get your position through in a way that works for the other side.

Lan Elliott 27:59

I love the theme of empathy and doing it with an understanding of trying to understand where the other person is coming from and finding the win solution, which is usually the best outcome Come so that everyone leaves with something that's important to them. I wanted to talk about distinguishing oneself because since the pandemic, there's been a renewed focus on self care, and also this movement of people wanting to move to work from home more than pre pandemic. I'm curious what you think is required for a young person to do to distinguish themselves and advance their career. Do you think it can be done in a, for example, a 9 to 5 Job, can you do that and still expect to advance quickly? Can you do it remotely? What do you think is needed to move ahead in a career, especially now post pandemic. What does that look

Eva Wassermann 28:54

like? I think, and maybe I just have an old school thought on it, but work from home and not being part of a team in person is not, It doesn't work as well in establishing relationships. I think you lose the whole organic conversation. And I think people are gonna burn out on talking on Zoom these days or Teams or whatever it may be. And, when I noticed Around our office at first, you only had to come in the office if you wanted to come in the office. And then gradually over time as they encourage People that start coming back to work a couple of days a week. And I would say Monday through Thursday, we're pretty full here in downtown Chicago for those that don't know where I am. Friday is so quiet, and everybody's working from home. I love coming in the office because I can walk and then I'm very productive here compared to home. So that's why I you'll find me here on a Friday, but it's not mandatory. But what I've seen on the Monday through Thursday with the people Is the more they came in, the more they came in. So it snowballed on each other because I think people that were working remotely realized that conversations are happening in the office They're not involved. It's that you bump into, chief investment officer in the hall, and you're like, hey. I've been looking at this. What about this? Now the junior person that's sitting in the cube that's standing there, they're listening, they're learning everything. They can say, hey. If you want, I can quickly underwrite So now they're getting assigned to a new deal that the person that may be fabulous that was at home and not part of the conversation just missed out on the opportunity To be part of that deal because you're there and not to mention you're missing the back and forth talking about What the merits of a transaction are? What are the risks? How are we thinking of them? Oh, by the way, what's happening at the fund level that makes us like something or not? All of that, it just kinda happens. I used to call it water cooler talk. Someone goes to get some cup of water, and you're all talking around there about what happened on the weekend. But and that's where relationships are built. I also think that if somebody's working at home, they tend to be less likely to ping me and say, hey. Can you help me with this model right now? Or if they're right there, they have 1 second. I've got a quick question for you. They'll just pop in, and you can work through that. So I feel like if you're not around in a regular basis with your team, you're not learning as much you're missing opportunities, and I'm kinda do believe too in the out of sight, out of mind. So when it comes to Promotions and opportunities, oh, they're here. They're here all the time. We know what that person is doing, all day because we see them. And it's not to say the person at home isn't working hard, but, we don't see it. So you have to assume they are and not Out walking their dog or at the gym or decided to run an errand go grocery shopping in the middle of the day. You see how devoted Somebody is and that they're learning and picking up. So for me, if I was a young person, I'd wanna be I'd want the exposure. I would be here 5 days a week.

Lan Elliott 32:02

That is wonderful advice for a young person. I was concerned we might run out of time and we are getting to the end. So I wanted to ask you 1 final question, which is keeping in mind the mission of DEI Advisors, which is around empowering personal success. Do you have 1 final nugget of advice that you would offer for our audience who's looking to advance their career.

Eva Wassermann 32:28

Yeah. No. I would just say, give it your all. Work hard. There's no substitute for hard work. Network is great because that's where you'll find out different or have resources that can empower you to do a better job and to be stronger. And so that I say that would be work hard and network because Together, you'll find you have a very powerful platform to grow from.

Lan Elliott 32:53

Wonderful. Wonderful advice to Andon. Thank you so much, Eva, for joining us today. It's been wonderful to have this conversation with you.

Eva Wassermann 33:02

Thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you. Thanks.

Lan Elliott 33:06

And for our viewers, if you enjoyed this conversation With Eva, I hope you'll go to our website, d e I advisers dot org, where you can find many more interviews with hospitality industry leaders. Thank you.