Azim Saju, CEO, ARK Holdings Group, Interviewed by Rachel Humphrey

Azim discusses his path from employment lawyer to hotelier, the importance for him of his involvement with associations, and why he prefers to build his relationships over dinner. He shares why he'd tell his younger self to have fun, surround yourself with good people, and invest in yourself. Azim also shares why he takes risks and how his risks on his people and his business have enriched him.

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Rachel Humphrey 0:01

I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering personal success in the hospitality industry. And I'm very excited to have with me today, hospitality industry leader and a good friend of mine, Azeem Saju with It's the CEO of Ark Holdings Group. Azim, welcome to DEI Advisors.

Azim Saju 0:22

Rachel, thank you so much for having me. It's my privilege and pleasure to be here with you this morning.

Rachel Humphrey 0:28

Azim, we're going to spend about 30 minutes together today, which is not a lot of time, cause I knew I could talk with you all day long. So we're going to jump right into it. But one of the things that I really love about the hospitality industry is how unique everybody's journey is. We can all. Achieve leadership through very different routes. So tell our listeners a little bit about your story, who you are and how you got to where you are today.

Azim Saju 0:52

So I grew up in the business behind the front desk. My parents purchased a hotel in Ocala, Florida on a lease purchase option. And we lived there and worked that business. I went on to get my undergraduate degree in economics from Davidson college. I was going to major in French at Davidson. wanted nothing to do with the hotel industry, but a study abroad trip to Northern Pakistan totally changed my mind and came back and majored in economics went to University of Florida Law School and then practiced plaintiff's employment law for several years. And realize that while I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed as it came to my grades in law school, that people liked me and I did reasonably well in that field. What I didn't like about it was the adversarial part of it. I didn't feel like there was a sense of building a commitment to win type of relationships and outcomes and was able to transition into the whole, back into the hotel business. in the early 2000s. And what I realized is in that transition is that after we built our first hotel is that, Hey, we can build three hotels because lending was a lot easier than so we could leverage more. And if we got some partners, we could spread our equity out even more. What I didn't realize is the risk and appreciate the risk. Component of the business. So we built five hotels leading into the great recession. And things crashed. Each of those assets were underwater. But at that point, what I began to learn and, experience is the greatest teacher for all of us is that if you were transparent with your financial reporting engaged with your lenders, engaged with your community, transparent with your team. The team members at the time needed to know that I was in there with them. I wasn't taking raises and, living large at their, at the sweat of their back. So if you're totally transparent with them, things would work out from a relationship perspective. And they did. We were able to take over a few assets. From a lender that were truly distressed, prove our worth, turn them around and build a, build our reputation in the business. In 2016 ish, as we began to come out, we reached about 10 hotels. But as we grew the need for talent, a talented and even more talented team with character grew even more and We were able to add talent and then letting that talent play, letting them take the field in baseball terms every day and letting them play allowed us to develop and grow along with building relationships along the way. I served in a leadership capacity with the Choice Franchisee Advisory Council and made a lot of friends. learned about the franchise or side of the business more so than I truly understood and recognized and with those relationships, I began to gain more knowledge of the business, even though I had grown up in the business, there's so many different facets to the hotel industry. Many of which I still didn't truly understand and appreciate. And through our team members, through the relationships that I built in the industry, began to better understand the industry, especially the investment and P& L component of the business. And as I learned that and we began to raise more capital for deals our deals got bigger. We sold our first asset ever in 2017 which was a big change in philosophy and mentality for me especially. And then. As we came out of Covid, for me the importance of scale growing our people, we don't get time back and our team members also put, invest their sweat equity in us and you can't return that sweat equity ever. It began to get increasingly important for me and knowing that if I could further leverage off of the talent that we had. We could create something that I think was special or our industry in terms of scaling our culture across the country and across the industry. And we launched the management company arc. In May of last year I had a few individuals who I'd known for a long time that worked for larger management companies and with whom I felt very comfortable. And we launched the management company and as we launched the management company and I continued to think about the hotel business. I realized that the management portion of the business and the development portion of the business, while interrelated, were different and those disciplines also needed to be addressed. In my mind, separated out especially if we were going to continue to scale our culture. And I had a good friend of mine, my best friend from undergraduate school, who had played a role for 15, a similar role with McDonald's corp for 15 years. And someone who I'd always reached out to for advice and counsel was also in the development space and gotten into the development space and the hotel industry after he left McDonald's. And we partnered. late last year to also form a separate entity that's just focused on development, meaning hotel acquisitions and new construction.

Rachel Humphrey 7:04

That is seen as an incredible story and a lot of progression that as you learn lessons. Really how to structure differently, what direction you wanted to go in one of the consistent themes, though, that you just mentioned throughout that journey is the importance of relationships. And I know you touched on it with lenders with the community, with your brands, with your partners, with your clients. team, the team and the culture around you. That is one of the things I would say you're probably most known for in the hospitality industry is the deep and very personal relationships that you have built with the people around you. We all develop those differently based on our personalities. What would you say are some of the ways that you have gone about to build those relationships and how they have really helped elevate your hospitality industry journey along the way?

Azim Saju 7:58

I'm going to start with how they helped elevate my hospitality journey along the way, because I think that's really important. As we get older, we're no longer in like school settings or college settings or lecture settings. And our continuing education, I think, as we get older and more advanced in our professional journeys happen through relationships and the natural exchange of ideas that occur through relationships. And what happens, I think, is that I'll learn a little bit from a Rachel Humphrey and a little bit from a Greg Freedman or a Teague Hunter. And then through all of those little bits of knowledge that I learned through those relationships form some common underlying threads that, Hey, these five people all told me the same thing in the last few years. And maybe I need to think about that a little bit more. Maybe I need to pivot my style a little bit more. Maybe I need to focus more on this and that those incremental bits of knowledge that you learn from. Smart people in the industry through relationships have been invaluable to me and my growth in the hospitality industry. And I can't emphasize it enough. It just it evolves your thinking. It, it eliminates the same old. It eliminates, I think, one of the dangers. Also, as we get older and achieve a modicum of success of just reinforcing yourself, when someone says, I don't see it that way, or I see it differently, that person is doing you such a big favor. And that can only happen through building genuine relationships.

Rachel Humphrey 9:43

It's like a zine university together, all your professors in one place.

Azim Saju 9:49

And then the building of genuine relationships. I'm a big dinner fan. I like to take people out for dinner. Usually the phone rings less at that time of day. Usually there's red wine involved, which also, relaxes everyone. Usually it's your last meeting or appointment of the day, meaning there's no place else to go to after. So you can focus in on that person and that person hopefully will do the same or those people will do the same and through that it's just, it's what I said earlier, you get that incremental knowledge, bits and pieces that over time, accumulate and increase. And really are the biggest things, difference makers, I think in the industry. And it's also fun, right? You have a good time, you laugh, you have a good dinner, you drink some wine. It's a, it's fun. It makes learning and improvements and evolution and all of the stuff that's necessary to lead a good business. It makes it all fun too. So it's great.

Rachel Humphrey 11:00

I love the concept too, that it's the last meeting of the day, that there's less interruptions that I'm like, I like the wine part too, but it's an interesting way of looking at that as both. Conducting business, developing the relationships, but enjoying yourself at the same time, feeling less work like I mentioned that one of the things that you are known for is relationship building. One of the other things that I think is your superpower is the amount of time that you commit the heart that you commit to boards, associations, nonprofits, whether it's FRLA, AHOA, HLA. Chalk. As you mentioned, I know you're very involved with I. F. A. As well. A lot of anagrams in there. But I'm curious about two things. One. Why is that important to you? Is it the growth part? The relationship part you were talking about a second ago, but also you haven't just been involved with those associations. You've had leadership roles with them. Are there skills as a leader that you have developed? Maybe that are different from that type of work than you do from your corporate roles and responsibilities.

Azim Saju 12:07

I do it for a few reasons and it has positively impacted my leadership big time. One is that the industry has been so good. To me, I just want to pay it forward, right? There's another someone like me or, someone like you or whoever it is that's out there that deserves those engagements and interactions. And a lot of people have done it for me. Even when we were very small as a company that would spend time and engage with me that had no business doing that. So I believe that in paying it forward. I also, Strongly believe as an industry, there's a lot more that unites us than divides us, especially, and I underlined this on the legislative front and these boards and these associations and nonprofits bring convene people for, especially for that reason. I think it's essential. To protect our industry and its value proposition that we're legislatively engaged. And the third reason why is that the personal positive impact that it, it has had on me and my leadership style. When I practice law, I worked at a very small law firm and then came back into a family business. I had not had any experience. working in a larger organization with a larger group and my leadership position in these boards and the associations and the non profits have helped sharpen my own leadership skills. The ability to listen, to be patient, to truly seek to understand and conversation the humility to understand when you're with larger groups, with people, smart people with differing ideas that you're not right all the time and the humility associated with that, it's just it's been very good for me as a person to go through that. In fact, had I not played leadership roles and. And been involved, been engaged and. In the boards and associations that I'm in. I don't think I'm where I am today, were it not for that.

Rachel Humphrey 14:22

That's an incredibly insightful thing. Thank you so much for sharing that. When you talk about listening and the ability to learn from that continuous learning and other things, one of the ways that we do that is by attending conferences, going to meetings, listening to others, but the flip side of that then is being invited to and asked to speak. to do some public speaking. And you have done a significant amount of that. First, I'm going to put you on the spot and I'm going to ask you something which people ask me all the time. Are you a good public speaker because of your lawyer training or maybe vice versa? And then do you get nervous? Do you enjoy it? Do you have You know, a routines things that you go through to prepare for public speaking. Cause you speak on a lot of different topics, whether it be advocacy, hotel ownership, operations, culture, you speak about a lot of different top.

Azim Saju 15:17

I am a good, better public speaker because of my lawyer training. And I have a story about that, but I think the best public speakers are just authentic. It's not necessarily the words they use or the grammatical things. whether what they're saying is grammatically correct. It's just they come across as authentic people, I think. And I would like to believe that I come across that way. And that's what Makes me a reasonably good public speaker. I think, or at least believe that I am. The funny thing about my lawyer training as it relates to public speaking. So I was fortunate to get a lot of like real litigation experience very early on. And what I noticed as I began to take depositions and go to hearings, as it relates to public speaking and my lawyer training is slow down. Sometimes people think because they're in a public setting or in a more formalized public speaking setting that they have to speed up or just. Subliminally speed up, slow down and that the thing I learned, which goes back to the authenticity part of it is I, one of my last cases was a big, at least for me at the time, it was a huge jury trial client that I really believed in. It was a plaintiff's. discrimination, gender discrimination, gender and age discrimination case. And it was a six day trial. I was doing the closing argument and I have all these notes and, I got to remember to say this and that and around two or two 30 in the morning, I put my notes in the

Rachel Humphrey 17:00

shredder

Azim Saju 17:02

and I said, I'm just going to be my true real self tomorrow when I give my closing argument and on a case that We barely got, we barely it barely passed a motion, a summary judgment or motion to dismiss. It had some factual challenges to it. We ended up achieving a pretty significant jury verdict. And I truly believe that it was because I put those notes in the shredder and spoke from the heart, authentically, and To that jury, that group of jurors on what my thoughts were on the case. And part of that authenticity is, being very open and honest on where. The weaknesses lie and not being an advocate or not publicly speaking with where you have tunnel vision on your agenda and smart people in the audience are thinking what about this? And what about that? Being authentic also to me means. being truly open and honest on where the shortcomings lie, where the opportunities lie and putting those cards on the table. But that experience really changed my view of public speaking in terms of the importance of prep, but not over prepping to the point where it comes across as canned and, And you lose that genuineness. You lose that authenticity. You lose, I think, in that your capacity to talk to the people that are listening to you as human beings.

Rachel Humphrey 18:44

That's so many great lessons in there because you are thinking about your audience, but you're also knowing that you are The subject matter expert of what you are there to talk about. So if you trust in that and come across as your genuine self, you're going to impact the listener a lot more than if you are reading from note cards or memorizing answers or trying to get a certain number or type of talking points in. So that's really an incredible lesson. And what a huge risk. And not taking your note cards into that closing argument. And that's a great way to segue into taking risks in general. As you were talking about your journey to arc holdings, I was hearing you talk about risks of pivoting from one career to another, from continuing to acquire hotels, to acquiring distressed properties, to being very transparent with finances and your team and other things from starting the new company and then, spending time. Swinging into management. So all along your entire career is set forth of a lot of examples of taking risk. And for many, they'll describe themselves as very risk averse. Do you think that you're a risk taker? Do you have a strategy that you implement in evaluating risk? I don't know that I would have described you as a risk taker until now. I'm hearing all hotel owners in some way are risk takers, but now I'm hearing you describe your journey. I, it seems like maybe something you're even a little bit drawn to.

Azim Saju 20:10

I am an adrenaline junkie. So risk, risk, taking risk drives that part of me. It wakes me up in the morning And I like I'm a risk taker, but I think that to your audience, the one thing that I'd like to underscore as it relates to risk is I think your risk starts with taking risks and making bets on people. It's not about the hotel you acquire or the deal you do and the associated risks with that. Take risks, make bets on people. Especially in an industry like ours, that's driven. By the service workers in our industry. And you have a lot of smart people in our industry that life has dealt them a tough hand several times over. And they deserve the same opportunities that maybe I have had, or you've had, or some of the other people I've had. And we, as an industry have the unique opportunity to take risks on those people. Do that while risk involves loss and the risk that I've taken on people at times has not worked out. But when it does, it will provide you with so much purpose and meaning and fulfillment that it's worth way more than any type of monetary return or reward that you might achieve. Executing a successful deal as it relates to acquisition and development. So taking risks for me starts with taking risks on people. And I've done, even with my legal background, I've done some stupid things sometimes as it relates to taking risks on people, personally guaranteeing on team member vehicles and doing stuff that at times I've scratched my head and said, why would I ever do that? And I'm never going to do it again. When it doesn't work out. But as I've gotten older, what I realize is that when it does work out, it's just it's so it's, the reward is better for me than what that, for that person. So take risks on people and then, yeah, our businesses is an entrepreneurial. is driven by the entrepreneurial spirit. The U. S. After the covid downturn as a family, that was the fifth downturn that we've experienced in the U. S. I think four of which have been while we were in the hotel business. What I've noticed is that what I noticed is that in each instance, The United States comes back and comes back even stronger. And so for me, when I look at hotels and development and acquisitions, I'm like, we live in a great country, probably the greatest country maybe in the history of humanity, but the U. S. is a great country. And then in addition to that, we live in a time where transportation and communication and through emails and cell phones and virtual meetings like this has gotten so much easier. We live in a great time. So the risk component of it, the likelihood of A reward in taking risk in a time like right now, I think is greater than ever before. So for me, acquisitions and development and growth and is a big driver because we live in such a great time. That it's like, why not? Why would I not take risk right now? In the time that we live in, there'll always be, there will always, part of risk is there's always. the side of it that is, you're not getting a reward or it doesn't work out as planned. But while that's painful, you're going to learn from it and you can't experience, you can only learn from experience and experience. So there's always a win when you take risk. The alternative is that you sit on the sideline, but if you sit on the sideline, what are you learning? And then you've definitely foregone. The opportunity or the potential to achieve a reward. So why sit on the sideline when you can play and play in the U S during this time period?

Rachel Humphrey 24:45

I love the vantage point of with every maybe risk that isn't quite as successful. You learn something, but I've never heard it described as the impact of the times that we live in where we live, the opportunity that brings up. What an incredible perspective. You actually stole my thunder at the beginning because I always like to share with people why I have asked a specific guest to join me for DEI advisors because they are all people who have impacted my career in some way along the way. And when I first met you, I was very drawn to your unwavering emphasis on culture, corporate culture, and at that time now, lots of people are talking about corporate culture, but at the time, really, nobody was and I was very intrigued in my own leadership development by the importance of team to you, the celebration of team publicly, privately, the credit to team the real understanding of we are all in this together, whether it is your corporate team, whether it is as an industry, as you mentioned, why you get involved with nonprofits. So I love that you talked about taking risks on your team, because that is evident in your leadership and has been a really wonderful lesson. For me, I have not yet personally guaranteed a team member's car. I do like to think that I am willing to take risks on the team around me. So I appreciate your sharing that because I think that's a very unusual perspective as far as the number one way that you take risks is on your team. I really love that. As I said at the start, we are going to run out of time and I cannot run out of time without asking you my favorite question, which is to both be asked and to ask others. I think that we are all works in progress, that we evolve a lot over time. And one of the ways that we do that is through a lot of reflection, whether we know we're reflecting or not. Tell me what today would tell, let's say a zine between college and law school about either how things work out for you, something you wish you knew then that might have made the path easier or different for you. What do you tell your 21 year old self?

Azim Saju 27:06

In no particular order, but the first thing is you got to have fun, go out and have fun. Every day that you can wake up and. Go out and compete and travel and, engage with people and that's a good day and have fun and appreciate those days. The second thing I would tell myself is surround yourself with people that are, that and trust, that you want to have fun with that have knowledge bases that are different or diverse than yours and then listen to them. And let them go and be themselves and go out and play. That doesn't mean don't hold them accountable and, not to have performance metrics, but when you surround yourself with people like that, you're inevitably going to improve yourself. in the process and allow yourself to be mentored by them. At sometimes, at some points in your career, you're going to be a mentor, but at some points in your career, regardless of how long you've been in it, you're going to be a mentee. And when you surround yourself by the right people, be also prepared and have the humility to be a mentor. a mentee. And then the last thing I would say is, try to do things that also invest in yourself, whether it's reading, exercising, walking a good television show, but do things that invest in you. And it's a long race. Things will eventually work out like they're supposed to.

Rachel Humphrey 28:36

I love that. So have fun, surround yourself with good people and invest in yourself. That is fantastic advice. Azim, keeping in mind the motto of DEI advisors to empower personal success, is there any final nugget of wisdom you want to share with our listeners?

Azim Saju 28:53

So as it relates to empowering personal success, my most favorite personal mantra that I tell myself our team all the time is yes, we can together. We're stronger together. And everyone's personal success brings a bigger fabric of together that allows all of us to be empowered to achieve a greater success.

Rachel Humphrey 29:13

Yes, we can together certainly embodies that. The Azeem that I have gotten to know over the years. Azeem, thank you so much for joining us, for supporting the mission of DEI advisors, appreciative of everything that you do for the industry, of all you've done for me as well, but really grateful for you joining us as a guest today.

Azim Saju 29:32

Rachel, I'm grateful for the same and grateful for the time and knowledge that you've invested in our industry and in people like me and doing this and putting DEI advisors together. So thank you.

Rachel Humphrey 29:44

Thank you so much. And to our listeners, we know you have a lot of ways you can spend your time. So thank you so much for joining us today. If you've enjoyed our time with Azeem, we hope you'll head over to DEIadvisors. org and hear from the nearly 200 hospitality industry leaders who have likewise shared their journeys and the insights they've learned along the way. Thanks so much, Azeem.

Azim Saju 30:03

Thank you, Rachel.